LOC
J. J. Horner
In the intro of the LOC, the last section describes Shaidar Haran and two
people who have been given new bodies. Who are they? Someone look this up
and give me your interpretation. I think it is Lanfear and Asmodean.
Lanfear is the only female to have been "dealt with" so far.
--
Enjoy,
JJ
Knowledge is POWER.
Fluffy One
"J. J. Horner" <hor...@msn.com> wrote:
>In the intro of the LOC, the last section describes Shaidar Haran and two
>people who have been given new bodies. Who are they? Someone look this up
>and give me your interpretation. I think it is Lanfear and Asmodean.
>Lanfear is the only female to have been "dealt with" so far.
Osan'gar:
He mentions that he was involved in the creating of the Trollocs, and
that he doesn't like Myrdraal.
Conclusion: Aginor.
Aran'gar:
Does not like her new body. Osan'gar thinks that that body is a very
fine joke. Osan'gar also mentions that Aran'gar always had been
reckless, _Lanfear had seemed cautious in contrast_. Later in LOC she
channels at Mat, without any Aes Sedai feeling it. She removes
Moghedien's A'dam, and Egwene feels the pain of a man touching it.
Conclusion: Balthamel.
The Fluffy One
"Yes, your Fluffiness..."
Kinslayer
>In the intro of the LOC, the last section describes Shaidar Haran and two
>people who have been given new bodies. Who are they? Someone look this up
>and give me your interpretation. I think it is Lanfear and Asmodean.
>Lanfear is the only female to have been "dealt with" so far.
>
Actually, I think it is Balthamel and Aginor. Both of them are male... The
one in the female body still channels saidan, which is why she (he?) gets
hurt when removing the adam from Moghedian. Another reason it can't be
lanfear: She and Moiraine both fell through the doorway. Since we know
that moiraine is still alive, then we know that Lanfear is still alive.
And we know Asmodean (probably) isn't one of them, because he disapointed
the dark one, and the dark one stated that he should die the final death (or
something along those lines.)
Jess Broadhead
The Kinslayer
Daermon Victor
J. J. Horner wrote:
[snip]
> Knowledge is POWER.
I have to say this. If knowledge is power, you must be pretty
damn weak. Flame away.
Daermon Victor
J. J. Horner
Now, that wasn't very nice.
--
Enjoy,
JJ
Knowledge is POWER.
Daermon Victor wrote in message <349A3D...@erols.com>...
Ben Stahl
In article <#ADGig8C...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>, "J. J. Horner"
<hor...@msn.com> wrote:
> In the intro of the LOC, the last section describes Shaidar Haran and two
> people who have been given new bodies. Who are they? Someone look this up
> and give me your interpretation. I think it is Lanfear and Asmodean.
> Lanfear is the only female to have been "dealt with" so far.
If you are referring to Aran'gar and Osan'gar, they are generally thought
to be Aginor and Balthamel. This comes from a complex series of deductions
I will not describe here. See the World of Time FAQ for the full story.
http://hugin.imat.com/jordan/#Contents
-- Ben
Imladolen
>Does not like her new body. Osan'gar thinks that that body is a very
>fine joke. Osan'gar also mentions that Aran'gar always had been
>reckless, _Lanfear had seemed cautious in contrast_. Later in LOC she
>channels at Mat, without any Aes Sedai feeling it. She removes
>Moghedien's A'dam, and Egwene feels the pain of a man touching it.
>Conclusion: Balthamel.
>
>
I agree with your conclusion that Osan'gar is Aginor, but I believe that
Aran'gar is Ba'alzamon/Ishamael. Ishamael was definitely reckless.
Maarten D. de Jong
Imladolen (imla...@aol.com) wrote:
: >Does not like her new body. Osan'gar thinks that that body is a very
No, cannot be Ishamael. First of all, Osan'gar recalls that Aran'gar had a
fine sense of humour (or at least she thought she did). He then goes on about
'this being a rich joke'. Well, considering the fact that Balthamel is known
to be a real womanizer (EoTW, Guide), I'd say that to be put into a female
body is quite a joke. Ishamael was too much a philosopher for this to be
called a 'joke'.
Also, Osan'gar clearly mentions two kinds of 'sleep'. The first is long, the
second short. The first refers to his being locked up in the Bore, the second
to his being dead for a while. He goes on to mention that Aran'gar remembers
this too. However, we know that Ishamael was never completely locked away as
the others, so he cannot remember the first long sleep.
Besides, even though we know the DO is a jerk, would he punish Ishamael so for
faithfully serving for 3000 years? That is an awfully long time! Something like
Shaidar Haran or Moridin would be more appropriate, IMO.
Maarten
mike
This is an interesting subject. It has me puzzled as well. I did a little
checking, but to no avail.
Ponder this though, if you reference back in tSR, Slayer/Lord Luc, was mortally
wounded by Perrin in the world of dreams. Unfortunately, I was never quite sure
if/which of the Forsaken he was. But I feel that his part in the story may help
to answer another question. If you recall, Perrin actually chased him (Slayer),
in Tel'aran'rhiod, to a "tower", and Slayer disappeared. Could this tower be an
entrance to the world of the snake/fox people? And if so, could this be the
means by which Moiraine and Lanfear will be resurrected?
Please reply.
Mike
J. J. Horner wrote:
> In the intro of the LOC, the last section describes Shaidar Haran and two
> people who have been given new bodies. Who are they? Someone look this up
> and give me your interpretation. I think it is Lanfear and Asmodean.
> Lanfear is the only female to have been "dealt with" so far.
>
Imladolen
>No, cannot be Ishamael. First of all, Osan'gar recalls that Aran'gar had a
>fine sense of humour (or at least she thought she did). He then goes on about
>'this being a rich joke'. Well, considering the fact that Balthamel is known
>to be a real womanizer (EoTW, Guide), I'd say that to be put into a female
>body is quite a joke. Ishamael was too much a philosopher for this to be
>called a 'joke'.
>
>Also, Osan'gar clearly mentions two kinds of 'sleep'. The first is long, the
>second short. The first refers to his being locked up in the Bore, the second
>to his being dead for a while. He goes on to mention that Aran'gar remembers
>this too. However, we know that Ishamael was never completely locked away as
>the others, so he cannot remember the first long sleep.
>
>Besides, even though we know the DO is a jerk, would he punish Ishamael so
>for
>faithfully serving for 3000 years? That is an awfully long time! Something
>like
>Shaidar Haran or Moridin would be more appropriate, IMO.
That makes sense about it not being Ishamael. But what is up with this
Moridin. And the man that was in Shadar Logoth at the end of CoS. And there was
some other stranger mentioned in Tanchico, an old man who was talking to Mat
while Mat was spying around town for the DFs. Are these some of the new
Dreadlords, or are the new Dreadlords survivors from the Black Ajah and those
Asha'man that Demandred/Mazrim Taim is perverting in the Black Tower.
Also, what is theis "Guide" you referred to?
Fluffy One
imla...@aol.com (Imladolen) wrote:
>>Does not like her new body. Osan'gar thinks that that body is a very
>>fine joke. Osan'gar also mentions that Aran'gar always had been
>>reckless, _Lanfear had seemed cautious in contrast_. Later in LOC she
>>channels at Mat, without any Aes Sedai feeling it. She removes
>>Moghedien's A'dam, and Egwene feels the pain of a man touching it.
>>Conclusion: Balthamel.
>
>I agree with your conclusion that Osan'gar is Aginor, but I believe that
>Aran'gar is Ba'alzamon/Ishamael. Ishamael was definitely reckless.
No, the "great joke" Osan'gar/Aginor thinks of is the fact that
Balthamel, a known womanizer, is put into a female body.
And furthermore; RJ has confirmed it at one of the online chat
sessions.
Sam Spencer
mike wrote in message <349EE5E8...@crosslink.net>...
Mmmm. Have either of you read the books? Only, it's obviously not lanfear
cos they are both male minds put in their new bodies (I believe it says so
explicitly somewhere)
And what makes you think that Slayer is one of the foresaken? if either of
you had lurked even a week before you started posting, you'd have known the
answer to both these.
Sorry if that came over a bit strong, but these things do seem obvious - I
practically guessed em long before I started reading here.
Sam
(Sorry! Sorry! Flame away...)
Chris Rose
<Snip dumb theories, long answered by r.a.sf.w.rj>
>
>Mmmm. Have either of you read the books? Only, it's obviously not lanfear
>cos they are both male minds put in their new bodies (I believe it says so
>explicitly somewhere)
>
>And what makes you think that Slayer is one of the foresaken? if either of
>you had lurked even a week before you started posting, you'd have known the
>answer to both these.
>
>Sorry if that came over a bit strong, but these things do seem obvious - I
>practically guessed em long before I started reading here.
>
>Sam
>
>(Sorry! Sorry! Flame away...)
>
Hell, NO! i've only looke through this group a short while, and i must
say, i think some of them should read the WOT FAQ. And SOON. There's an
abundance of foolishness going on here, and it's nice to see someone
correcting the fools
Pits
====================================================
i have no cute quote for you. So read the mail for
content instead. Sorry 'bout yer !@#$ing luck, bub.
Richard Wentz
Chris Rose wrote in message <34b45bcd...@news.telusplanet.net>...
Pits, maybe rather than demand that people read read the WOT FAQ SOON, you
should give them a pointer. I for one, don't care if people read the FAQ.
It's not all-knowing, as I have proven several points wrong. Wanna read it,
great! Don't wanna read it? Just as great! Want Neo-Nazi type ng control,
where a thought brings down the flames faster then Travelling to Shayol Ghul
without permission, go to raswr-j, and have your fill.
Rich
-- "Flame this"
Sam Spencer
Richard Wentz wrote in message <68r2gl$9...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>Chris Rose wrote in message
[cut "arm"Pits]
>Pits, maybe rather than demand that people read read the WOT FAQ SOON, you
>should give them a pointer. I for one, don't care if people read the FAQ.
>It's not all-knowing, as I have proven several points wrong. Wanna read
it,
>great! Don't wanna read it? Just as great! Want Neo-Nazi type ng
control,
>where a thought brings down the flames faster then Travelling to Shayol
Ghul
>without permission, go to raswr-j, and have your fill.
>
>Rich
>-- "Flame this"
Just wanna point out that my original message was posted before I got a
message showing me how stuck up I was being <shuffles nervously away from
pits, hoping no-one notices :) >
I still think these guys should have lurked a week or two, but I would now
be a bit more tactful... and i think asking people to read the FAQing FAQ is
a bit much - I haven't read it all, and I won't until I have a few months
free. a skim through perhaps wouldn't do any harm...
Id post the URL, but I can't seem to find it.
Sam - sp...@spen.demon.co.uk <remove p in spam to email>
Count - about 8 months (or only *3* seasons!) to PoD!
Maarten D. de Jong
Richard Wentz (thedrag...@rocketmail.com) wrote:
: Pits, maybe rather than demand that people read read the WOT FAQ SOON, you
: should give them a pointer. I for one, don't care if people read the FAQ.
: It's not all-knowing, as I have proven several points wrong. Wanna read it,
: great! Don't wanna read it? Just as great! Want Neo-Nazi type ng control,
: where a thought brings down the flames faster then Travelling to Shayol Ghul
: without permission, go to raswr-j, and have your fill.
'Proven several points wrong'??? That is interesting... Can you briefly
summarize what is wrong and what it should be in your opinion?
Maarten
GANDALF150
>"Flame this"
That's what cracks me up about the other newsgroups. It seems a lot of the
people post in fear, starting every post with flame away or "I don't think this
has been covered" If someone just doesn't like a post, they don't need to
respond nastily to it. They complain about lack of reading time, but then they
post useless posts about how dumb the person was and how much more enlightened
they are sometimes. Well, I guess I'm just rambling, I'll probably get
"flamed" for this post anyways.
John
///o-o\\\ John
Richard Wentz
GANDALF150 wrote in message
<19980106234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Bravo, John! You are quite correct! I purposely did not cut a bit of your
message just to incite flame!
Have a great day!
Rich
-- "Of course I'm good, I'm always satisfied." Richard Fish
Shane Turner
> -- "Flame this"
>
>
>
I'm probably just dumb but to the point, that they're both male minds.
I've read the series several times and have no recollection of this being
mentioned. However I do recall one being very disappointed with its new
body, this to me is on a par with what I understand of the character
Lanfear who, i think you'll have to agree, is/was an extremely vain person.
Kjell Stahl
On 7 Jan 98 05:54:46 GMT, "Shane Turner" <spe...@dove.net.au>
wrote:
Okay, I will take it one more time.
Osan'gar and Aran'gar are Aginor and Balthamel.
Evidence:
1. It's obvious from Osan'gar's thoughts that they are two
resurrected Forsaken.
2. Osan'gar mentions that he was involved in the creation of the
Trollocs. He is Aginor.
3. Aran'gar does not like her new body, even though it's in
"prime" condition. Osan'gar thinks that Aran'gar always had been
reckless, _Lanfear had seemed cautions in contrast_. Therefore,
Aran'gar is _not_ Lanfear. Osan'gar thinks that Aran'gar's new
body is a fine joke. Balthamel was always a lecher. Aran'gar =
Balthamel. That's why no one felt her channel in Salidar, "she"
channeled Saidin.
4. Robert Jordan has confirmed their identities.
--
Kjell Stahl -- kst...@hem2.passagen.se
http://hem2.passagen.se/kstahl/
"I consider myself a nice guy. So should you."
Bonzi
Kjell Stahl wrote:
> 4. Robert Jordan has confirmed their identities.
>
> --
> Kjell Stahl -- kst...@hem2.passagen.se
> http://hem2.passagen.se/kstahl/
> "I consider myself a nice guy. So should you."
...in an online chat session :)
Chris Rose
>
>Pits, maybe rather than demand that people read read the WOT FAQ SOON, you
>should give them a pointer. I for one, don't care if people read the FAQ.
>It's not all-knowing, as I have proven several points wrong. Wanna read it,
>great! Don't wanna read it? Just as great! Want Neo-Nazi type ng control,
>where a thought brings down the flames faster then Travelling to Shayol Ghul
>without permission, go to raswr-j, and have your fill.
>
>-- "Flame this"
>
Pits was being an ass and apologizes.
Chris Douglas
Shane Turner wrote:
>
> > -- "Flame this"
> >
> >
> >
> I'm probably just dumb but to the point, that they're both male minds.
> I've read the series several times and have no recollection of this being
> mentioned. However I do recall one being very disappointed with its new
> body, this to me is on a par with what I understand of the character
> Lanfear who, i think you'll have to agree, is/was an extremely vain person.
They both channel Saidin. They have to be male.
--Chris Douglas
Mad Alice
Thank you for being magnanimous! Although I agree that anyone who proposes
an idea/theory should be able to point to an area of the books to back it
up!
Alice
(...off with their heads...)
>
>Pits was being an ass and apologizes.
>
>Pits
>====================================================
>I have no cute quote for you. So read the mail for