Vimes: promotion.
terry
Owen Morgan-Jones
terry wrote in message
<917570432.24348.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>What will Sam Vines next promotion will be
Judging by the way he gets a promotion once every other book It
will not be too long before he gets to be lord high supreme god.
Owen
--
The Beat Goes On
Be Yourself, Be Free
afpianced to Claire :-)
Replace "melon" with "mjatks" to contact me. If you want to that is.
Jacqui
Owen Morgan-Jones wrote
>terry wrote
>>What will Sam Vines next promotion will be
>
>
>Judging by the way he gets a promotion once every other book It
>will not be too long before he gets to be lord high supreme god
Shades of Rear Vice Admiral (or whatever) Rimmer...
Jac
Jan Uzzell
Owen Morgan-Jones wrote in message <78ssgb$3u0$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
>
>Judging by the way he gets a promotion once every other book It
>
Well we know it won't be King!! He'd have to chop his own head off!!
Jan Uzzell
--
'It is quite amazing what men will do if forbidden to do it with sufficient
emphasis'
Lord Vetnari, Patrician, Ankh-Morpork
Charissa
Jan Uzzell wrote in message <78te2l$fbg$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
>Owen Morgan-Jones wrote in message <78ssgb$3u0$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>>
>>terry wrote in message
>><917570432.24348.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>>>What will Sam Vines next promotion will be
>>
>>
>>Judging by the way he gets a promotion once every other book It
>>will not be too long before he gets to be lord high supreme god.
>>
>
>Well we know it won't be King!! He'd have to chop his own head off!!
>
>Jan Uzzell
>--
'Vimes the Father', or would that be demotion <grin>
Charissa/Perdita, Trainee Opera Singer
>
>
Owen Morgan-Jones
Charissa wrote in message <792dm6$r5n$1...@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>As Lady Sybil is a `fine Healthy Woman`, perhaps his next move will be
>'Vimes the Father', or would that be demotion <grin>
No, thats merely his punishment.
Helluvan idea though
Typoman
>
> >As Lady Sybil is a `fine Healthy Woman`, perhaps his next move will be
> >'Vimes the Father', or would that be demotion <grin>
>
>
> No, thats merely his punishment.
> Helluvan idea though
>
> Owen
> --
Now There's an idea, Samuel Vimes would make a most
unusual parent, probably effective though, even if
all he passes on is his moral code.
Nothing wrong with a child at their age, the question
is, will Pterry be willing to use this potential
subplot, now that it has visited afp?
Probably, as few on afp are willing to sue the man
who is most responsible for giving us a place to
discuss such vitally important matters as chocolate,
Lara Croft's bra size, our assorted medical ailments
and myriad other things that simply must be discussed
in detail.
Typoman, Havind Been Dead For A While There
Medusa
>Nothing wrong with a child at their age, the question
>is, will Pterry be willing to use this potential
>subplot, now that it has visited afp?
>
>Probably, as few on afp are willing to sue the man
>who is most responsible for giving us a place to
>discuss such vitally important matters as chocolate,
>Lara Croft's bra size, our assorted medical ailments
>and myriad other things that simply must be discussed
>in detail.
It wasn't our idea anyway - sorry guys ;-)
Pterry quote from Men at Arms (page 55):
'Should you predecease her, of course,' Mr Morecambe droned on, 'it will
revert to her by common right of marriage. Or to any fruit of the
union, of course.'
Vimes hadn't even said anything at that point. He'd just felt his mouth
drop open and small areas of his brain fuse together.
'Lady Sybil,' said the lawyer, the words coming from far away, 'while
not as young as she was, is a fine healthy woman and there is no reason
why-'
--
Medusa
From Wales, where men are men and sheep are nervous...
Change jinkx to euryale to reply
My URL is concealed to protect the innocent
ICQ# 30023749
Owen Morgan-Jones
Medusa wrote in message ...
>'Should you predecease her, of course,' Mr Morecambe droned on, 'it will
>revert to her by common right of marriage. Or to any fruit of the
>union, of course.'
>Vimes hadn't even said anything at that point. He'd just felt his mouth
>drop open and small areas of his brain fuse together.
>'Lady Sybil,' said the lawyer, the words coming from far away, 'while
>not as young as she was, is a fine healthy woman and there is no reason
>why-'
I hate to spoil your fun, my fellow welshie, but the lovely Charissa used
that
quotation to start the discussion. What we were discussing was the idea of
Vimes *actually* having a kid, rather than the possibility
It is rather interesting though, the way discussion go full circle on afp.
Owen (musing)
yo-less
about a promation got me thinking about maybe Vetinari is sort of in a round
about way grooming Vimes as his eventual replacement. Anyone else have any
ideas about that?
Tony Sheppard
Helpful email on its way to you, but on a similar thought I think that
it's not Vimes that
The Patrician is preparing for the job, but Carrot.
Here's why. Vetinari knows that Carrot is the rightful King.
He also knows that Carrot doesn't want the job.
He also gives Carrot the impression that he doesn't want Carrot to do
the job, and
as he once said (sorry if not exact quote, book not here) 'It is quite
amazing what men will do if forbidden to do it with sufficient emphasis'
Surely this is a case of he is trying to use headology on Carrot and
bring back
the Monarchy (but only when he feels like it)
Tony
--
Igor.....IGOR.....Bring me some more eyes. The cat's been at eating them
again.
Terry Pratchett
<belsh...@hotmail.com> writes
>Now There's an idea, Samuel Vimes would make a most
>unusual parent, probably effective though, even if
>all he passes on is his moral code.
>
>is, will Pterry be willing to use this potential
>subplot, now that it has visited afp?
Okay, folks, please try to understand this...
The Fifth Elephant contains, as a minor plot thread, the possibility
that Vimes is soon to become a father.
This may survive into the second draft.
It would be ridiculous to expect a fan group not to speculate about
future events on DW -- it's a fundamental part of fanac. So I am, as of
now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
fan.pratchett. It's pure 'luck' that this thread has triggered it, and
it's not the fault of anyone in it; there have been a few others in
recent months that have veered close enough to stuff dealt with the T5E
to make me sweat.
Of course, it doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to suggest that a
couple may have kids. But, despite everything, RSN someone is going to
plonk down some theme or situation which is right in the *heart* of a
story that I'm planning. I do not want to end up faced with a public
accusation of plagiarism or theft; the fact that it might well have no
legal foundation is beside the point. You don't have to be hugely
imaginative to see that this could be damaging in other ways.
I've tried to take the view that if people post ideas to afp then it's
*their* problem, but reality suggests that this attitude wouldn't
prevent trouble. A couple of weeks ago, I inadvertently included in a
post a sentence that could be read two ways, if you ignored the context;
this led to a long, pointless and occasionally unpleasant thread which
told me quite a lot about today's afp. A meaty suggestion that I'd
nicked an idea from afp would rumble on for months and turn up in other
places, and life is too damn short.
This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
--
Terry Pratchett
Mark F
Terry Pratchett wrote in message ...
>
>future events on DW -- it's a fundamental part of fanac. So I am, as of
>now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
>fan.pratchett. It's pure 'luck' that this thread has triggered it, and
>it's not the fault of anyone in it; there have been a few others in
>recent months that have veered close enough to stuff dealt with the T5E
>to make me sweat.
>
>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
>--
>Terry Pratchett
I'm really sorry to see this and quite understand - it must be the price of
fame.
Yours in fevered anticipation of SoD, T5E and the next work of art <g>
M
Opabinia
>
> Okay, folks, please try to understand this...
>
> The Fifth Elephant contains, as a minor plot thread, the possibility
> that Vimes is soon to become a father.
>
> This may survive into the second draft.
>
> It would be ridiculous to expect a fan group not to speculate about
> future events on DW -- it's a fundamental part of fanac. So I am, as of
> now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
> fan.pratchett. It's pure 'luck' that this thread has triggered it, and
> it's not the fault of anyone in it; there have been a few others in
> recent months that have veered close enough to stuff dealt with the T5E
> to make me sweat.
>
> Of course, it doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to suggest that a
> couple may have kids. But, despite everything, RSN someone is going to
> plonk down some theme or situation which is right in the *heart* of a
> story that I'm planning. I do not want to end up faced with a public
> accusation of plagiarism or theft; the fact that it might well have no
> legal foundation is beside the point. You don't have to be hugely
> imaginative to see that this could be damaging in other ways.
>
> I've tried to take the view that if people post ideas to afp then it's
> *their* problem, but reality suggests that this attitude wouldn't
> prevent trouble. A couple of weeks ago, I inadvertently included in a
> post a sentence that could be read two ways, if you ignored the context;
> this led to a long, pointless and occasionally unpleasant thread which
> told me quite a lot about today's afp. A meaty suggestion that I'd
> nicked an idea from afp would rumble on for months and turn up in other
> places, and life is too damn short.
>
> This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
> post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
> telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
> best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
> --
> Terry Pratchett
Opabinia writes:
I think I speak for us all when I say that I am sad that this has
happened. I can quite understand pTerry's position. It would seem that
many fans are able to predict what he might write in the future,
probably because of what has gone before sets up future storylines that
may (or may not) be followed up. Goodbye pTerry, we will miss your posts
to this newsgroup.
--
To mail- extract the metal.
Tony Sheppard
>
>In article <36B745...@hotmail.com>, Typoman
><belsh...@hotmail.com> writes
>>Now There's an idea, Samuel Vimes would make a most
>>unusual parent, probably effective though, even if
>>all he passes on is his moral code.
>>
>>Nothing wrong with a child at their age, the question
>>is, will Pterry be willing to use this potential
>>subplot, now that it has visited afp?
>
Although I have only been hear for an extremely short time I have
been a fan for years, this week is the first chance I've had to get onto
afp.
It seems a shame that pterry might have problems with things that crop
up within
newsgroups. It is saddening to hear the all too real fact that those
horrible
blood-sucking leeches (Lawyers)(apologies too any afpers in that
proffesion)
might get involved.
However, there is a way round all this.
If I understand the nature of the trousers of time there is a Vimes that
does have
children and a Vimes that doesn't. Likewise there is one who becomes the
Patrician
and one who isn't. Basically, if something might possibly happen then,
undoubtably,
somewhere it does.
So no matter what afpers post it would eventually be written somewhere
by one
version of pterry or another. I apologise if this is a long post but I
am sorry to see
pterry go.
PLEASE COME BACK!!??
Missing your words of wisdom already
Tony
--
Dyslexia is not a condition but a way of loaf
(Who says we have no sense of humour)
(Thank Om for spellcheck)
in...@fdhoekstra.nl
>
> In article <36B745...@hotmail.com>, Typoman
> <belsh...@hotmail.com> writes
> >Now There's an idea, Samuel Vimes would make a most
> >unusual parent, probably effective though, even if
> >all he passes on is his moral code.
> >
> >Nothing wrong with a child at their age, the question
> >is, will Pterry be willing to use this potential
> >subplot, now that it has visited afp?
[snip "there are hints about this in T5E"]
> It would be ridiculous to expect a fan group not to speculate about
> future events on DW -- it's a fundamental part of fanac. So I am, as of
> now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
> fan.pratchett.
Well, it had to happen sooner or later. Doesn't make it
any less to be deplored, though.
[snip explanation of reasons for leaving - I should hope
no afper would do the things described, but PTerry's
right, these days you just can't run such risks.]
> This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
> post anything of interest
That, otoh, is good news. It does mean, though, that
we'd better be _very_ careful on abp. Who does the
newsgroups FAQ? I think it would be a good thing to put
a warning in there regarding this, rather stronger than
it is now. Afp could be used as a dire example...
> But I'm now thinking that the
> best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
Unfortunately, you are probably right.
Richard
Heather Knowles
<snip>
>This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
So - congratulations to all those who ignore requests not to post
speculations and fanfic ideas, and who persistently refuse to read the
FAQs. Welcome to your Brave New Newsgroup, and pat yourself on the back
for having driven away the best reason most of the rest of us have for
reading afp.
And to Terry - thank you for your posts, and for the time you have taken
over our replies. See you on abp.
--
Heaven
Antti Lehtola
Heather Knowles wrote:
>So - congratulations to all those who ignore requests not to post
>speculations and fanfic ideas, and who persistently refuse to read the
>FAQs. Welcome to your Brave New Newsgroup, and pat yourself on the back
>for having driven away the best reason most of the rest of us have for
>reading afp.
No...Terry is one of the Great People I've "met" through this
group, but there are others - you, Heather, being one of
them...
I am sad that Terry feels he can no longer read this group.
and maybe the magic will die with his leaving...
But I've made a lot of friends here, and hope I'll continue
to do so...
Terry was a major part of afp...maybe a part that afp
needed to survive. But his posting here wasn't the
major reason I fell in love with the group...
It was *you* guys - Terry being one of the guys who's
leaving will hurt a lot...
But no more than the leaving of a lot of you other
people would...
So - can we make afp into something Terry will
want to come back to? There are a lot of people
here who I *know* can help in doing just that...
The [M] threads *aren't* going to do it, I'm afraid...
>And to Terry - thank you for your posts, and for the time you have taken
>over our replies.
AOL!
Antti - ICQ 24732234
--
This is a very sad sig.
Brett Dixon
<antti....@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
> Heather Knowles wrote:
>
> >So - congratulations to all those who ignore requests not to post
> >speculations and fanfic ideas, and who persistently refuse to read the
> >FAQs. Welcome to your Brave New Newsgroup, and pat yourself on the back
> >for having driven away the best reason most of the rest of us have for
> >reading afp.
>
> No...Terry is one of the Great People I've "met" through this
> group, but there are others - you, Heather, being one of
> them...
There are some other regular poster's I'd miss more... There's a certain
pedestal-standing thing with him, really.
<snip hopes that PTerry isn't a vital component of this newsgroup.>
>
> So - can we make afp into something Terry will
> want to come back to? There are a lot of people
> here who I *know* can help in doing just that...
I think it's the legal system... Too easy for someone to sue him for a
vauge mention. Even if they have no real chance of winning, he's got to
talk with the lawyers (Possibly throwing them some cash), deal with a
trial (or settle, basically admitting guilt) and do other messy things
that basically result in him not having time to spend with his family,
write, and deal with email, etc.
> The [M] threads *aren't* going to do it, I'm afraid...
Nope...
> >And to Terry - thank you for your posts, and for the time you have taken
> >over our replies.
>
> AOL!
AOL!
> This is a very sad sig.
--
Brett Dixon | AFPiance to the lovely Ańejo.
Knight of the Wibble | (Who I truly believe is female.)
| AFPiance to both KkatD and KkatD.
UU Tech Support Staff | (Duplicate is twice the fun!)
Brett Taylor
Mark F wrote in message
<36b84...@newsread3.dircon.co.uk>...
|
|Terry Pratchett wrote in message ...
|>Okay, folks, please try to understand this...
|>
|> But I'm now thinking that the
|>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
|>--
|>Terry Pratchett
|
|
|I'm really sorry to see this and quite understand - it must
be the price of
|fame.
|
AOL. but I can see his point of view AFP could by its verry
nature could trigger discusions witingly or unwitingly
theames that could be potential plots and sub plots.
So long.
<fx sound of brett sobbing in sleave>
Brett Dixon
<brett....@clara.co.uk> wrote:
<snip the 'Dear AFPjohn letter>
> AOL. but I can see his point of view AFP could by its verry
> nature could trigger discusions witingly or unwitingly
> theames that could be potential plots and sub plots.
It's those &*^*( [R] threads! That's what's responsible![1]
[1] Unless the Discworld starts to take an unatural interest in cheese,
beer, wibbles, and such.[2]
[2] Oh, dear. Perhaps I see the reasoning now.
Owen Morgan-Jones
Terry Pratchett wrote in message ...
Dear god. A thread I participated in has helped to trigger Pterry's
departure. Now thats a guilt trip worth savouring. I know that from
now on I shall consider myself partly to blame, as is probably the
case.
AOL to the idea of making afp something that he would want to
come back to but it strikes me that, short of moderating, there is
nothing we can do about it other than relentlessly flaming anyone
who tries to speculate about the future of DW. As one of the
guilty parties I voluntarily tip a can of petrol over myself and
proffer a cigarette lighter...
Owen, needing the consolation of the first line of his sig. more
than ever today
Melody Shanahan-Kluth
Snipped all the above thread
:o(
I am gutted..totally. As a 'newbie' to afp posting but as a reader of the
group for a few months I feel that *we* have killed off maybe THE most
important part of that self same group. Its corny I know but the song 'When
will we Ever Learn' springs to mind.
I realize that speculation will appear when discussing literature , art etc
etc but the thought that litigation could follow due to posting on a
newsgroup is appalling, though I understand how , especially in this case.
Fare thee well pTerry I look forward to your future works and to your
contributions to abf. Lets hope that ppl learn a valuable lesson from this
sad episode :o(
Melody
I dont know pTerrys email addy and I remember the looong threads about him
cutting down on emails so this is instead of a personal note.
Jamie Crowther
>
> Snipped all the above thread
>
> :o(
>
> I am gutted..totally. As a 'newbie' to afp posting but as a reader of the
> group for a few months I feel that *we* have killed off maybe THE most
> important part of that self same group.
I feel pretty much the same. But despite the now lost chance for Terry
to ever be ironic at us, let us face the future and make this the best
damn newsgroup it could ever hope to be.
>Its corny I know but the song 'When
> will we Ever Learn' springs to mind.
I think my sentiment was cornier...
> I realize that speculation will appear when discussing literature , art etc
> etc but the thought that litigation could follow due to posting on a
> newsgroup is appalling, though I understand how , especially in this case.
It is a depressing thought, and I wouldn't want to think that *anyone*
on the ng would be selfish and heartless enough to do such a thing. But
I suppose it is a necessary step, and these days you do have to be very
careful over possible legal matters.
> Fare thee well pTerry I look forward to your future works and to your
> contributions to abf. Lets hope that ppl learn a valuable lesson from this
> sad episode :o(
A sad AOL to that. At least he will still grace us with his presence on
abp. We will miss him. But we can still go on, there is no doubt about
that. And there's always the next convention!
yours depressedely,
Jamie
Who's been trying to hold back, but, but i-i-its no u-u-use....
Boohoohoo!! Bawl!! *sniffle* 's'ok, think 'm ok now...
Shim
[snipped to save my soul from the Bandwidth Gobblers, the midnight
installers of DOS 1.0]
>This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
>post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
>telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
*ahem*
This is going to AFP on the grounds that PTerry has renounced the use of his
email inbox as a viable contact method...
I feel slightly guilty here; I speculated once, IIRC. Not much, but every
little bit is a problem. I support whoever said that we should try to avoid
such things in future, *especially* with crossposting - but, as Owen said,
what can we do?
Nowt.
Ah, well, I'm sorry to see you go, PTerry. My USENET time is sadly limited;
I'm already a participant in three NG's, and I don't have the time to add
ABP. AFP will be... different. Still, it won't falter, but it'll be
different.
Oh - Mr Pratchett, if you're reading this - I didn't mention V*mes. :)
--
-Shim. 40 years ago today... the music died.
RTC Political Officer, SPoKOS, UDIC, SEC and RFC member, CUT supporter.
AFPiance to the ever-perfect Jennifer G, and AGX-C Cheese Toastie Bearer.
Mail: sh...@shimgray.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 30055622
Sam Farrell
Antti Lehtola wrote in message <799s87$3tr$1...@library.lspace.org>...
[sad snippery]
>So - can we make afp into something Terry will
>want to come back to? There are a lot of people
>here who I *know* can help in doing just that...
>
Big, big guilt trip. I'll never post to a meta thread again. Except to
advertise the FAQs, of course.
SamF
--
sig. changed in honour of pTerry leaving. Does that sound strange?
FAQ ad: go to http://www.lspace.org/faqs/ for the FAQs. That or get flamed.
Shim
Trina
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip the whole, awful thing]
Oh NO! I am really upset, now...
Can somebody of a leagalish persuasion tell me why an inclusion in the
FAQs saying that all ideas and plot details speculated on in
alt.fan.pratchett are the intelectual property of Terry Pratchett
would not give him legal protection...? It mustn't work, or it would
already be there... Wouldn't it?
It could be one FAQ, all by itself... Marked You Must read this before
posting to AFP... Then no one could claim not to know about it
later...
We could even post it daily... I know I would be happy to, if it
needed doing...
Wouldn't it be worth a try?
Please?
Sniff,
(no kisses... I'm too sad.)
Trina...
--
Delighted to be AFP married to Antti.
Pleased as punch to be AFPianced to Noel and Slarvibarglhee
Thrilled to be otherwise AFPrelated to Turtle, Claire, Tamara, Ańjeo
Tigger, Tachyon and Jamie. Kisses to you all....
Jan Uzzell
Terry Pratchett wrote in message ...
(snipped a lot of very sad bits)
>This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
>post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
>telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
>--
Oh dear, I feel so small now.
Please please please don't go away
BIG ZEN HUGS
Jan Uzzell
--
Too sad for usual sig
Miq
wrote
>I am gutted..totally. As a 'newbie' to afp posting but as a reader of the
>group for a few months I feel that *we* have killed off maybe THE most
>will we Ever Learn' springs to mind.
Please - everybody - get off the guilt trip. This is *not* the way
Pterry wanted it. Read his post again if you don't believe me.
The only way we could avoid his worries entirely would be to ban
all mention of Pratchett and his works from the group. Anyone
think that's a price worth paying? And if so, any ideas about how
to enforce it?
>I realize that speculation will appear when discussing literature , art etc
>etc but the thought that litigation could follow due to posting on a
>newsgroup is appalling, though I understand how , especially in this case.
It's just the Man being cautious. No blame attaches to anyone
here.
On AFP, the one thing we all have in common - apart from an
internet connection - is a love for Terry's works. If we allow
conversation about pretty much everything - as we do - it's
inevitable that the Disc, and all things attaching to it, are going
to come up in conversation. Often.
ABP, on the other hand, is dedicated solely to a discussion of his
works. That means there's a lot less speculation and sheer
creative imagination, which means he can read that with a much
lower degree of trepidation.
Be sad if you must, but don't blame yourself or anyone else.
>I dont know pTerrys email addy and I remember the looong threads about him
>cutting down on emails so this is instead of a personal note.
If you want to know his e-address, you'll find it on the post a bit
further up this thread. But I imagine he doesn't really want
dozens of mails saying "Waaah!", so please just add it to your
address book for use when you've got a *good* reason.
--
Miq
"And that must end us, that must be our cure,
To be no more."
Karen
just a handy hook as it were.
In article <36B84C...@fdhoekstra.nl>, in...@fdhoekstra.nl writes
[Terry unsubscribing]
>Well, it had to happen sooner or later.
Well, no it didn't *have* to happen.
>[snip explanation of reasons for leaving - I should hope
> no afper would do the things described, but PTerry's
> right, these days you just can't run such risks.]
Unfortunately they have - repeatedly - despite persistent requests not
to.
>
[Terry still on abp]
>That, otoh, is good news. It does mean, though, that
>we'd better be _very_ careful on abp. Who does the
>newsgroups FAQ? I think it would be a good thing to put
>a warning in there regarding this, rather stronger than
>it is now. Afp could be used as a dire example...
It already *is* in the FAQ's. Also in the FAQ's there are the details of
the fanfiction mailing list set up specifically so that fans *could*
speculate on plots whilst leaving afp a place where Terry could post.
People don't damn well read them because trying to "fit in" to a
community - to get to know it, is a bit of an effort. And increasingly
people are not prepared to make even the smallest of efforts to get to
know the place they are barging into - even after months of warnings.
Terry has asked people not to speculate on plots here - in the past that
and the FAQ's and the fanfiction mailing lists, coupled with just a
modicum of self control, have been enough. Apparently that is no longer
the case.
To all others posting in this thread - Antti if you feel that [M]
threads are not the answer you are quite right - [M] is just about all I
have posted recently - ditto some of the others of us that could see
this coming (especially since Terry's recent post to abp). I would love
to know what is. Because I am running out of things to try. And there
are people here (and no longer here) who have been trying for a lot
longer than I have. If you have the solution I would love to see it -
and that is truly not meant with sarcasm.
And to those of you who have posted to say that Terry is not the only
reason to post here. All I can say I that you just don't *get it*. What
made afp a special place on usenet was *not* simply the fact that "Terry
Pratchett posts here". It was the fact that it was the *kind of place*
where he *could* post here, and enjoy doing so, that made it different.
Where there was fun and irrelevance but with a degree of wit and self
control. Where he could make a post without it being followed up by
fifty more either pedanting him, accusing him of plagiarism or drowning
in the godawful mock sycophancy, all posted without a vestige of any
wit.
OK - well your challenge is to make it better agin isn't it? I sincerely
hope you do - but I regret that I won't hold my breath.
Anything But Down eh?
ttfn,
Karen
--
New to afp/abp? check http://www.lspace.org
Comments, suggestions, entries to FAQ's covering Tag's, Acronyms and
Daftpabank to: afp...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk
Orin Thomas
: telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
: best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
: --
: Terry Pratchett
I think it pertinant to note that as far as I can tell
Terry is/was the second longest serving poster to afp.
So before anyone gets too excited and says "yes we shall
all change - please come back" I would suggest that
Terry knows this group better than most of us.
Literally hundreds, perhaps even a thousand or more
regular posters have come, contributed, and left
afp in the time that Terry posted here.
I wasn't subscribed to alt.fan.pratchett when
he first did post here - but I knew someone
who was. It was 1992 and I was a first year student
in a computer lab and my friend said, whilst reading
the terminal next to me "my god, Terry Pratchett
just posted to his own newsgroup"
Terry has put in a truly herculean effort. The
fact that there are few posters still here from
even 4 years ago, let alone 7 should give people
an idea of the effort required to stay around
that long.
A job truly well done and probably much more
than anyone should be asked for.
with respect,
Orin
--
Orin Thomas. University of Melbourne
http://primus.lspace.org mailto:or...@lspace.org
Tony / Gonzo
wrote:
:->Terry Pratchett wrote:
:->>
:->> This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
:->> post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
:->> telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
:->> best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
:->> --
:->> Terry Pratchett
:->
:->Opabinia writes:
:->
:->I think I speak for us all when I say that I am sad that this has
:->happened. I can quite understand pTerry's position. It would seem that
:->many fans are able to predict what he might write in the future,
:->probably because of what has gone before sets up future storylines that
:->may (or may not) be followed up. Goodbye pTerry, we will miss your posts
:->to this newsgroup.
I suppose now I shall have to find a new way to decide which threads
to read on those days at work where I actually have to do some work
and so cannot read them all.
My previous method, was of course, to read anything that had a post in
it from Pterry, the recent delights of Backups[1] and keyboards as
well as the book and tour related stuff.
I suppose what shall be missed most are those deliciously acerbic
entries into the annotations threads where some outragious rude newbie
accusesse Pterry of stealing something that appeared 5 years after the
book apeared.
As several of the *M* threads are discussing AFP is no longer the
fluffy little place it was when I found it 5 years ago and hot on the
heals of the email anouncement we should all be in morning at how we
have driven the person that brought us here away.
This leaves me without a newsgroup that features my hero since the
Lumier bros. are unlikly to start adding to rec.arts.movies.tech and
no pints of beer have been seen posting to uk.food+drink.real-ale[2]
Quite the longest and most serious thing I have posted to AFP in
years, back to skulking around as pet film and cinema geek.
Tony/Gonzo
[1] I still hope that one day L-space will have the picture of Pterrys
backup storage safe complete with blue light ans smoke.
[2] I suppose there is that cute daughter of the Neame family who was
at GBBF but she didn't look the spoddy type :-(
--
From Tony Kennick aka Gonzo The Great
http://missy.shef.ac.uk/users/old-firm/
Gonzo: Slang for "the last man standing
at a drinking marathon"
Brett Dixon
<Snip>
> Can somebody of a leagalish persuasion tell me why an inclusion in the
> FAQs saying that all ideas and plot details speculated on in
> alt.fan.pratchett are the intelectual property of Terry Pratchett
> would not give him legal protection...? It mustn't work, or it would
> already be there... Wouldn't it?
> It could be one FAQ, all by itself... Marked You Must read this before
> posting to AFP... Then no one could claim not to know about it
> later...
> We could even post it daily... I know I would be happy to, if it
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I want to be one, but I'd guess the reason is
that the FAQ's are optional... It's like those $*#&@ licensing agrement
stickers on software... The only thing that might work is if the only way
to post involved a dialogue box giving the disclaimer with a large set of
agree/disagree buttons.
But it's just my opinion.
esmi
>Can somebody of a leagalish persuasion tell me why an inclusion in the
>FAQs saying that all ideas and plot details speculated on in
>alt.fan.pratchett are the intelectual property of Terry Pratchett
>would not give him legal protection...? It mustn't work, or it would
>already be there... Wouldn't it?
I'm not even slightly legalish in nature but if you reread
Terry's post again, I think you'll see that it wasn't just the
legality of the issue that was bothering him. For a writer of his
stature, even hints, whispers or rumours of plagurisem are going
to be highly damaging. Unfortunately there are some people who
like nothing better than to take pot-shots at those who have made
a success of their chosen career. After a while, even the most
ridiculous rumours can have an effect.
Ever hear the saying "No smoke without fire"?
If Terry has begun to feel uncomfortable with the kind of plot
speculations that have been flying around this group of late,
then I think that, sadly, he has taken the only practical course
of action. It's just a pity that people forgot to think about the
ramifications of their speculations before they posted them. :-(
esmi
--
In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death.
Read the FAQs lately? http://www.lspace.org/faq/
Paul E. Jamison
This may be a bit rambling, so bear with me.
This has to be the saddest I've felt in a long time since I first subbed to
afp myself. And it's especially sad since I consider afp to be one of the
*nicest* groups I've found on Usenet (in my somewhat limited experience).
Oh, granted, there have been some jerks show up here, but the
flame/troll/flood/overall nastiness level has been remarkably low here.
We're a *family*, for A'tuin's sake!
And I think a large part of it has been because of PTerry himself, and the
kind of person he is. When he recently posted the "I'm going to cut down on
answering my E-Mail" announcement, my primary thought was: How many authors
are like this? The average best-selling type probably even *dream* of
personal contact with t/h/e//u/n/w/a/s/h/e/d//m/a/s/s/e/s their readers,
much less apologize for being forced to cut back on same. I could see
somebody like Norman Mailer responding to a fan's "Oh, I liked your latest
book!" with "Of course you did; now, get out of my way, peasant" [1]. Not
Terry Pratchett. He cares about his readers too much. And now he's had to
leave us.
And he had good reasons to. The World's trigger-happy nowadays when it
comes to legal action. I don't pretend to know how we could have prevented
this, except that I don't like the idea of a moderated NG. When you come
down to it, we can't *force* everyone to read the FAQs, and there will
always be those who won't want to (The recent line "I can't be bothered with
reading the FAQs" left a chill down my spine). Usenet seems to draw the
pond scum like a magnet. Maybe PTerry's leaving was inevitable, and we
should be thankful he ever posted here at all.
I don't think that we should try and place blame, on ourselves ot on
others. We should just accept that we've lost not only The Man, but one of
the more interesting (not to mention nicer) posters. Think of it this way:
he left so he wouldn't spoil the books for us, and one of the reasons we're
here is because of those marvelous books.
Will he ever post here again? I don't know. Can we make this group a place
that he'll want to post to again? Maybe. For now, we'll mourn a while,
we'll discuss the Hell out of it. I, for one, hope that the afp I know and
love will work it's magic and those discussion threads will mysteriously
mutate into threads on cabbage duels, chocolate, and --
and a whole lot of other afp-ish subjects that I can't think of right at the
moment.
[1] Assuming Norman Mailer has any fans.
Paul E. Jamison, Esq. (I'm keeping the sig. in just to hope someone gets a
chuckle 'cause we need one)
--
"BABYLON 5! A five-mile long cement mixer of truth, pouring out the
Concrete of Nice-Nice in a long, grey ribbon into the future, to form a
***SIDE WALK OF JUSTICE!!***"
- The Tick on Babylon 5
Debplod
In article <f1vijgAu...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
Terry wrote:
>It would be ridiculous to expect a fan group not to speculate about
>future events on DW -- it's a fundamental part of fanac. So I am, as of
>now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
>fan.pratchett. It's pure 'luck' that this thread has triggered it, and
>it's not the fault of anyone in it; there have been a few others in
>recent months that have veered close enough to stuff dealt with the T5E
>to make me sweat.
Well, when I got up this morning I found my kindly sister had sent me
a Discworld Desk Calender, and I thought
"Today is a very good day"
When I read this tonight I thought
"This is a very sad day"
I am very disappointed that this has happened, I haven't
been here long, but have enjoyed what Terry has posted.
I also enjoy being part of a group of fellow discworld fans, but
as fans it *is* hard to not speculate on future plots, as Terry
himself put it, it is fundamental to fanac really.
It's a shame, but understandable, with our society the way it
is today [1] that he doesn't want to be possibly influenced
by fans musings.
Whilst thinking about this I wondered if we could create
a new tag for [P]ostulating about future books, and was going
to post this suggestion.
Then I thought a bit longer and decided:-
1) Enough space is already taken up with discussing which tags
shoud be used and how to use them correctly.
2) Tags aren't used correctly *all* the time, and so it probably
wouldn't really make it any 'safer' for TP to read here anyway.
So I regret to have to say "Bye Terry, it's been good to have
you around",
and hope one day he feels he can return.
Oh, and can you please keep us in touch with new books, signing
tours etc? <sad grovel!>
One final thing - I may be wrong, but I feel the posts following
this one of Pterrys may include a few that try to apportion
blame for this situation. I don't think this will be at all helpful,
so can I suggest that posters think before they hit send.
If I'm wrong, and being a bit unfair, then forgive me, I'm not meaning
to 'cause offence to anyone, just avoid some potential nastiness.
Debplod
[1] Help, help... I sound like my parents.
I'm turning into my mother - Nooooooooooooo...............
--
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa
Debplod
Gid Holyoake
deb...@aol.com generously decided to share with us..
Snippetry..
> It's a shame, but understandable, with our society the way it
> is today [1] that he doesn't want to be possibly influenced
> by fans musings.
[snip..]
> One final thing - I may be wrong, but I feel the posts following
> this one of Pterrys may include a few that try to apportion
> blame for this situation. I don't think this will be at all helpful,
> so can I suggest that posters think before they hit send.
> If I'm wrong, and being a bit unfair, then forgive me, I'm not meaning
> to 'cause offence to anyone, just avoid some potential nastiness.
Well said that person.. sound advice in all events, think before you
post is..
> [1] Help, help... I sound like my parents.
> I'm turning into my mother - Nooooooooooooo...............
We all do you know.. well.. not into *your* mother.. I mean.. we
couldn't *all* turn into your mother.. that would be silly.. we all turn
into our mothers.. or fathers.. or uncles or aunts or grandparents or
whatever.. recognising the sound advice our elders and betters gave us
when we were young and foolish and decided to ignore it, and then
passing that same sage advice on yourself is one of the first signs of
incipient old-fartdom you know.. be afraid.. be *very* afraid..
Mwahahahahahah!!!!!
Gid
--
The Most Noble and Exalted Peculiar , Harem Master to Veiled Concubines
Guardian of the Sacred !!!!!'s , Defender of the Temple of AFPdoration
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/ for The Irrelevant Page! MJBC
Gillian Houck
<antti....@kolumbus.fi> wrote:
>The [M] threads *aren't* going to do it, I'm afraid...
I beg to differ, the [M] threads are usually the first I read, sometimes
all I read. Maybe because everything [R] and [I] has pretty much been
said before in the five years I've been around, but I think mostly
because the most intelligent and thoughtful writing happens in them and
because real passion does too. The people who really care about the
newsgroup, how it works and what happens to it, post to the [M] threads,
and the history of what has happened and the future of the group is
there also. So don't dismiss [M] threads so readily, they are
important, and in fact, they are fun.
Gillian
--
Gillian Houck - http://www.rimron.co.uk/~gillian/ - gil...@rimron.co.uk
"They can make me do it but they can't make me do it with dignity."
- Calvin
Carl J Lawley
Orin Thomas wrote in message <79af0i$qf1$1...@library.lspace.org>...
>Terry Pratchett (tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
>: best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
>: --
>: Terry Pratchett
Bye then. Sorry to see you go.<sniff>
In all the time I've been here (and haven't), I think this is the first time
I've posted in response to pTerry. (Although my memory may be clouded
somewhat, I don't always post whilst sober)
>I think it pertinant to note that as far as I can tell
>Terry is/was the second longest serving poster to afp.
>
>So before anyone gets too excited and says "yes we shall
>all change - please come back" I would suggest that
>Terry knows this group better than most of us.
>
>Literally hundreds, perhaps even a thousand or more
>regular posters have come, contributed, and left
>afp in the time that Terry posted here.
>
<small snip>
>
>Terry has put in a truly herculean effort. The
>fact that there are few posters still here from
>even 4 years ago, let alone 7 should give people
>an idea of the effort required to stay around
>that long.
My gods - I first posted here in mid '94 (And got my first 'Read the FAQ
(singular)' from Pete 'Quantum' Bleakley). Does that make me a middle-aged
fart?
But then, It was never the fact that pTerry posted here that kept me coming
back. It was the feeling of cameradery, the pursuit of knowledge and a
desire to take over the world.
Whatever happened to Colm and his magic refillable pint glass?
Who _did_ win Owen's DWquiz?
Who _didn't_ leave when the Twin Gorgons pitched camp?
>A job truly well done and probably much more
>than anyone should be asked for.
Hear hear.
BTW, now that he's freed up some more time, perhaps we'll be getting less of
these nonsensical "not as good as he used to be" threads when T5E hits the
stands.
<fx: hurriedly pulls on flame-proof suit>
>with respect,
Ditto
>
>Orin
Any chance of another quiz?[1]
Carl J Lawley
[1] Remembering what hard work the first one was for you...hehehe
--
"Ranting and raving and carrying on,
Maybe they're right when they tell me I'm wrong" - D Leary
ca...@lawley7.spam.freeserve.co.uk
remove that spam!
Sarah Wittman
trin...@netdocs.com (Trina) did write:
>Can somebody of a leagalish persuasion tell me why an inclusion in the
>FAQs saying that all ideas and plot details speculated on in
>alt.fan.pratchett are the intelectual property of Terry Pratchett
>would not give him legal protection...? It mustn't work, or it would
>already be there... Wouldn't it?
>It could be one FAQ, all by itself... Marked You Must read this before
>posting to AFP... Then no one could claim not to know about it
>later...
and people would complain about the number of faqs being posted.. and
people would complain that they don't have killfiles and have to pay
to download.. and people would complain that they certainly can't be
bothered to read all the faqs.. and then others will claim that they
don't need to read the faqs because they aren't relevant any more but
god forbid that they do anything but complain about it.. or even think
before they post every once in a while.
Sarah
--
"I'm so perplexed / what was I thinking? /
what will I think of next? / where can I hide?"
_Untouchable Face_ Ani Difranco
Gillian Houck
>On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Melody Shanahan-Kluth <melo...@dial.pipex.com>
>wrote
>>I am gutted..totally. As a 'newbie' to afp posting but as a reader of the
>>group for a few months I feel that *we* have killed off maybe THE most
>>important part of that self same group. Its corny I know but the song 'When
>>will we Ever Learn' springs to mind.
>
>Please - everybody - get off the guilt trip. This is *not* the way
>Pterry wanted it. Read his post again if you don't believe me.
No specific guilt, but I don't think we should all let ourselves off
thinking about why this happened, and maybe not drive off anymore
emeritus posters.
I think there are several things that deserve talking about, but most of
it boils down to *think* *before* *you* *post*.
*Think* about how many people read the group, are a large percent of
them interested in this post? Is someone else going to post the same
information before you do? Are you going to begin a thread that will
get out of hand? (ie abortion, religion, guns, etc)
*Think* about the tag, hey, it only takes a minute and it allows the
people with limited time to sort things. But most importantly to me,
and why I tend not to read untagged posts, it shows you *care* about the
group as a whole, enough to follow the 'rules.' It shows thought and
care was taken, that this post wasn't just a careless, offhand thing,
but someone actually wanted me to read this.
*Think* about netiquette. There are damn good reasons for .sig
delimiters, quoting styles, etc. Usenet has been around a while, and
there are *reasons* for these things, worked out over thousands of
newsgroups. If you think you're above them, well, I don't really want
to read your posts.
*Think* about the size of afp. It's huge these days, maybe if we ask
everyone who's concious to cut down, we'll end up with utter dreck
because it's all the people who won't or can't listen, but maybe if all
the intelligent posters write good posts we'll raise the tone so high
that the drek will at least become rare? Hey, I can dream. But ask
yourself if you really need to do this, or maybe you can spend some more
time and effort and make a post that just blows people away with your
wit and erudition, or maybe wait until you have something to write about
that you can do so with wit and erudition..
*Think* about the medium. Usenet is usenet, not email, not irc, not
icq, not web. That means it can take a while for everyone to read your
post and for them to respond, don't think no one will respond if they
haven't within an hour. You're not sending it to one person, or even to
a few, it's going out to thousands, possible tens of thousands of
people, it's certainly taking up space on thousands of computers and
bandwidth that boggles the imagination. It's not a conversation, and
it's not like letters, it's a written medium, and it's communal, that
means you have to take the media and the method of transport into
account when you think about your po stings.
We've had a huge influx of new people since Christmas, and we've had a
large number of prolific posters who are relatively new. Neither of
these things has to be a horrible problem, but we have to do some
maintenance work too. And that means corrections on the froup, so that
lurkers and other newbies can see what's accepted and what's not. And
it means [M] threads so we can find consensus on what's accepted (hey,
this doesn't happen in a smoke filled room, this is where it's agreed
upon, on the group). If all correction is done in email, no one knows
what's ok, if all discussion of what's appropriate is done in email, how
does anyone know what's going on?
So I say let's take this as a reason to examine our behavior and see
that behaviors does has consequences, even it it's only losing a very
funny and informative poster.
Dave Gill
>
>And he had good reasons to. The World's trigger-happy nowadays when it
>comes to legal action. I don't pretend to know how we could have prevented
>this, except that I don't like the idea of a moderated NG. When you come
>down to it, we can't *force* everyone to read the FAQs, and there will
>always be those who won't want to (The recent line "I can't be bothered with
>reading the FAQs" left a chill down my spine).
I don't think the legal entanglements were the biggest factor, I think
he was beginning to feel that speculation of one sort or another on afp
would start to cramp his style if he kept on reading it. (And we
certainly don't want that, do we?)
<fx: comes up with brilliant idea, then: "Oh bugger - someone else
posted something similar on afp so I can't use that...">
I suppose one form of moderation which may be acceptable (?) would be to
reject any posts which weren't [X] key-coded properly, but that still
wouldn't stop the properly key-coded posts wandering off at a tangent
(and quite right too in *most* cases).
>Usenet seems to draw the pond scum like a magnet. Maybe PTerry's
>leaving was inevitable, and we should be thankful he ever posted here
>at all.
I suppose it was, as has been said before, a bit like God nipping into
church to do the occasional sermon...
>We should just accept that we've lost not only The Man, but one of
>the more interesting (not to mention nicer) posters. Think of it this way:
>he left so he wouldn't spoil the books for us, and one of the reasons we're
>here is because of those marvelous books.
And another silver-lining to the cloud is that he will have more time to
post to abp...
>[1] Assuming Norman Mailer has any fans.
Who?
--
Dave Gill
Only been here since December, but I am trying to learn the rules...
Gizelle
>So - congratulations to all those who ignore requests not to post
>speculations and fanfic ideas, and who persistently refuse to read the
>FAQs. Welcome to your Brave New Newsgroup, and pat yourself on the back
>for having driven away the best reason most of the rest of us have for
>reading afp.
>
I don't think it was necessary to be quite so nasty about this...
Pterry himself said "This is not meant unpleasantly.... But I'm now
thinking that the
best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans."
Which brings me to my second point - if the best reason you have for
reading this newsgroup is his posts, then (IMHO) you are missing out
on what I think are the great things about this group - the
interesting people and conversations, the humour (and occasional
sarcasm!) and so on... which is just a little sad, really.
If we are the "fans" (never quite thought about myself as one of
those!), then the group is for us. Although it is a pity Pterry won't
be here anymore, it is the fans who make the group.
Gizelle
replace no with g to reply
--
AFP Code AAT-ZA d s:(+) a- U++ R++ F h
P- OS: ?C>+ M-->- pp--- L*+ c B+ Cn !PT
Pu76% 5 X? MT? eV+ r++ x-- end
in...@fdhoekstra.nl
>
> I am replying to a number of the comments in this thread - Richard's is
> just a handy hook as it were.
>
> In article <36B84C...@fdhoekstra.nl>, in...@fdhoekstra.nl writes
> [Terry unsubscribing]
>
> >Well, it had to happen sooner or later.
>
> Well, no it didn't *have* to happen.
I think I didn't express myself quite clearly there. Let me
rephrase.
I shouldn't have had to happen; people should've read the
FAQs, complied with same, and behaved like the perfect
Usenetter all the time.
However, you can't expect that, since even when people do
their utmost best all the time, and when all the regulars
even succeed in this, there will always be people who are
not so exact; perhaps only for the first time, perhaps they
learn very quickly after their first time, but there will be
speculative posts.
And it needn't be bleedingly obvious fanfic; even a post
that, in the eyes of the poster, seems perfectly innocuous
(like the Vimes-parent one; after all, what is more natural
than that something already hinted at by another character
does happen?), it might be very unpleasant from the writer's
pov, or elicit posts that are so.
In a perfect world, that wouldn't happen; but since people
do, often in all innocence, make mistakes, it does. This is,
after all, a fan group, and some fans have the tendency to be
a bit overenthousiastic and post things they had better not.
And one of these, sooner or later, had to be the straw that
broke the camel's back.
> >[snip explanation of reasons for leaving - I should hope
> > no afper would do the things described, but PTerry's
> > right, these days you just can't run such risks.]
>
> Unfortunately they have - repeatedly - despite persistent requests not
> to.
Again, not quite clear; what I meant was that no afper would,
I hope, stir up unpleasantries IRL involving people with
either thin watches or refillable pencils. That, I believe
and hope, hasn't happened yet.
> [Terry still on abp]
>
> >That, otoh, is good news. It does mean, though, that
> >we'd better be _very_ careful on abp. Who does the
> >newsgroups FAQ? I think it would be a good thing to put
> >a warning in there regarding this, rather stronger than
> >it is now. Afp could be used as a dire example...
>
> It already *is* in the FAQ's. Also in the FAQ's there are the details of
> the fanfiction mailing list set up specifically so that fans *could*
> speculate on plots whilst leaving afp a place where Terry could post.
Hm, you are right, of course. What I meant was, maybe the
example of what not only could but has happened would
provide even more motivation to restrain oneself.
Though you're also right that if people are too lazy to
read the FAQs, they're not going to read that either.
It would give the rest a better justification to stomp on
them though, with even more force.
> To all others posting in this thread - Antti if you feel that [M]
> threads are not the answer you are quite right
> If you have the solution I would love to see it -
> and that is truly not meant with sarcasm.
This I agree with. [M] threads are not perfect, but I know
of no better thing either.
Richard
Tigger
Terry Pratchett said:
snip
>
I do not want to end up faced with a public
>accusation of plagiarism or theft; the fact that it might well have no
>legal foundation is beside the point. You don't have to be hugely
>imaginative to see that this could be damaging in other ways.
>
snip
I'm beginning to like the RL less & less, if Terry used something
I had posted on afp, I would be flattered & honoured & would
bore everyone to death telling them about it for the rest of
my life!
I shall be sorry to see Terry going from afp and why do the few
always spoil things for the many?
We are not worthy
Anna
--
afpbigsis to Thorin98 & Trina,afpsquabblingsis
to Lyn la Garde, afpcousin to Antti,
& afpiancée to John Gilbertson & Tachyon
afpdalekbuilt for 2 shared with Gonzo
ICQ 23745649
Heather Knowles
>Heather Knowles wrote:
>
>>So - congratulations to all those who ignore requests not to post
>>speculations and fanfic ideas, and who persistently refuse to read the
>>FAQs. Welcome to your Brave New Newsgroup, and pat yourself on the back
>>for having driven away the best reason most of the rest of us have for
>>reading afp.
>>
>I don't think it was necessary to be quite so nasty about this...
That wasn't nasty, Gizelle, that was frustrated and infuriated. There
have been countless posts over the last few months explaining to people
why we don't post plot speculation, why we have the FAQs, why it's
important to read them, and so on - and all this advice is consistently
ignored, with the predictable result that Terry now can't post here
himself any more.
It's part of the general frustration I'm feeling about some posters
we've all had trouble with, who persist in cluelessness despite
everyone's best efforts to help them. It wasn't aimed at a particular
person - it was aimed at those with a particular mind-set.
<snip>
>Which brings me to my second point - if the best reason you have for
>reading this newsgroup is his posts, then (IMHO) you are missing out
>on what I think are the great things about this group - the
>interesting people and conversations, the humour (and occasional
>sarcasm!) and so on... which is just a little sad, really.
Please note I said 'best', not only - if you want to know what I think
of the group as a whole, and how grateful I am for the entertainment and
support I've had from everyone, then I can do no better than to refer
you to Deja News for the end of December, when I was vociferous in
defending afp against a critic.
>
>If we are the "fans" (never quite thought about myself as one of
>those!), then the group is for us. Although it is a pity Pterry won't
>be here anymore, it is the fans who make the group.
Absolutely - but afp was lucky to be one of the few ng's to which the
author of whom we are fans was posting. It did make it different and
special, and, although it has plenty of reasons to continue to be
special in all its other ways, that particular reason has gone.
--
lotsa luv, Heaven xxxx
AFPCode 1.1a Ali$-UK d s---:++ a UP++ R+++ F++ h P--- OSD: C++++ M- pp++ L+ c++
B++ Cn PT+++ Pu63- !5 X++ MT++ e++>+++ r++++ x++++ end ICQ 22748228
Freedom Is Like Having The Top Of Your Head Opened Up
Brett Taylor
Melody Shanahan-Kluth wrote in message
<79a6rm$83t$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>...
|
|Snipped all the above thread
|
|:o(
|
|
and to your
|contributions to abf. Lets hope that ppl learn a valuable
lesson from this
|sad episode :o(
The first post I noticed today on abf was "Vimes
promotion" grid I hope we don't drive pterry away from there
too. then all we may get is Pterry on announce. Having now
read a fair chunk of the follow ups.(my original post was a
knee jurk reaction to the post)I can see that most all of us
are sad to loose such an invaluble presance.
the lawyers are going to get fatter from plagerisium
cases. maybe in the UK. were we tend to be sensible about
these things there won`t be a problem. I suspect that most
of us would happly sign a release clause handing over the
rights of the Idea for Pterry to use. Unfortunatly there
will always be a minority ho for on reason and another take
the other road and drag Pterry's good name towards the
courts.
Even if the original manuscript was writen some time before
a post here there could and I emphisize could be one or more
malcontents who stand up and say Pterry stole my idea. even
though Pterry had had the original idea previous to it
comeing into print.
`there are a lot of cases in the music industry of simmilar
goings on Led Zepp were sued by another as their whole lot
of love sounded simmilar to that others work. I would post
better details but their entombed in a pile of guitar mags.
I cant see a day when Pterry could come back here safely as
almost all things discussed as tagged [i[ or [r] could be
twisted as plot lines. IMHO itwould be nigh impossible. but
I am concentrating on the plot threads that the great Ofiah
mentioned. and am not about to touch on the flame war that
sprang up.
All I hope is we don't drive our other writer of fiction
away!
Before I finish I personaly do not aportion blame for this
to any one inparticular we ar all guilty to a greater or
lesser extent as to why this has come about so no guilt
trips here just a little sadness.
to paraphrase shims sig
brett
--
yesterday the music died
Brett Dixon
<brett....@clara.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
> the lawyers are going to get fatter from plagerisium
> cases. maybe in the UK. were we tend to be sensible about
> these things there won`t be a problem. I suspect that most
> of us would happly sign a release clause handing over the
> rights of the Idea for Pterry to use. Unfortunatly there
> will always be a minority ho for on reason and another take
> the other road and drag Pterry's good name towards the
> courts.
You and I must be distressed, as this last sentence is incomprehensible to
me. I'm sorry, but how is the 'minority ho' at all relevant? I don't think
he's been caught hanging out with any seamstresses, has he?
Irina Rempt
> Please - everybody - get off the guilt trip. This is *not* the way
> Pterry wanted it. Read his post again if you don't believe me.
Thanks. I did. Not that I don't believe you, but I needed that - I'm a
bit of a guilt-trip freak and was already looking through what I've
been posting to see how *I* drove him off (Note: "how" not "whether").
> The only way we could avoid his worries entirely would be to ban
> all mention of Pratchett and his works from the group. Anyone
> think that's a price worth paying? And if so, any ideas about how
> to enforce it?
Moderation? I'm against it. A moderator or a team of moderators would
have to be very saintly in order not to spoil people's fun. As well as
having no fun at all themselves, of course. And if we saddle people we
dislike with the job, it's bound to turn the wrong way.
Irina
--
ir...@rempt.xs4all.nl AFPAunt to Jennifer
AFP Code 1.1 ALn d s-:+ a+ U+ R F++ h+ P++ OS+:+ C++ M- pp- L+ c B+ Cn
PT++ Pu66 5 X? MT? e++ r+++ x++++
Brett Taylor
Brett Dixon wrote in message ...
|> will always be a minority ho for on reason and another
take
|> the other road and drag Pterry's good name towards the
|> courts.
|
|You and I must be distressed, as this last sentence is
incomprehensible to
|me. I'm sorry, but how is the 'minority ho' at all
relevant? I don't think
|he's been caught hanging out with any seamstresses, has
he?
|
to correct my over enthusiastic fingers please read as
will always be a minority who for one reason and another
take
the other road and drag Pterry's good name towards the
courts.
relevant in that there are always people who think they can
earn a quick buck. IDB Pterry mentioned that he would like
to avoid certain situations that could arise . To quote his
words
"I do not want to end up faced with a public
accusation of plagiarism or theft; the fact that it might
well have no
legal foundation is beside the point. You don't have to be
hugely
imaginative to see that this could be damaging in other
ways"
as you could/can see the accusation would be enough just
look at the lives destroyed by accusations in court that X
raped Y only for Y to admit they lied. all though X is
inocent the pretrial/trial coverage will be large yet the
admition of having lied will probably be on page ten in
about one collumn inch. just look at newspaper retractions
to articles writen and compare
Brett.
--
apfiance of the delightful debplod
apfreind to the architecturaly stunning Inneke
A tresure happy in the weyr of Mad Purple Dragon
End ICQ 27798560
Brett Dixon
<brett....@clara.co.uk> wrote:
> to correct my over enthusiastic fingers please read as
>
> will always be a minority who for one reason and another
> take
> the other road and drag Pterry's good name towards the
> courts.
Thank you. I feel better now, knowing he's not hanging out with seamstresses.
Brendan Butter
few
>always spoil things for the many?
>I suppose one form of moderation which may be acceptable
(?) would be to
>reject any posts which weren't [X] key-coded properly, but
that still
>wouldn't stop the properly key-coded posts wandering off at
a tangent
>[Various other comments]
Nah, nah, nah, look - 2 things:
1) whatever it says in the FAQ, a fan newsgroup consists of
_fans_, who are inevitably going to want to talk about the
plotlines of the material in question, and therefore, sooner
or later, will begin think of the future for characters. It
is a credit to the author that he has crafted his characters
so well that people actually care about their future.
2) Its not about whether 'He' can see which messages to
read, its about making a public statement that he will not
read messages here anymore. After all, would the media
really care if the 'prophetic' posting in question had a
[M], [P] or an [X] in front?
3) some of you guys make out that he's died or something?!
Lets just make sure apf lives on.
IMHO, obviously :-)
We cannot blame those who posted to the thread in question -
we can only blame the society which cultures the 'sue-me'
attitude and the money grabbing nature of our legal system.
IMHO, IMHO, IMHO
BB
********************************
Much too depressed to tag
John Wilkins
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
snippity
|This is not meant unpleasantly. I shall continue to hang out on abp and
|post anything of interest and, of course, there are even people without
|telephones who know my email address:-) But I'm now thinking that the
|best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
No, He *doesn't* post here, any more...
<strains of poignant strings in background swell and fade, along with
picture to black. Exeunt omnes, stage left...>
--
John Wilkins, Head, Graphic Production, The Walter and Eliza Hall Institute
of Medical Research, Melbourne, Australia
<mailto:wil...@WEHI.EDU.AU><http://www.wehi.edu.au/~wilkins>
I do not make errors; reality fails to live up to my expectations
Gid Holyoake
Ahh.. but he does.. what he doesn't do now is *read* here anymore.. so
you'll still get your "I'm going to be signing at:" posts, and your "I'm
going to be releasing this book in:" posts.. and possibly even some:
"I've heard someone said this and here's my reply!" posts..
So.. worry not good people of afp.. Terry's departure is not the first..
for those that remember he departed some time ago and returned.. he's
very possibly addicted you know.. it happens to people.. he may be
lurking still.. beware what you say.. you may be quoted in one of his
books yet!!..
OK.. I didn't mean any of that.. I know Terry is not the lurking sort..
I mean.. people with beards *and* hats are just not the lurking type..
take it from me.. I know about such things.. :-)
Trent Hill (Mountaineer)
<SNIP>
>So I am, as of now (as of this post, in fact) ceasing to subscribe to alt.
>fan.pratchett.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
<whimper>
Mountaineer
--
AFP Code 1.1a AE-AU d s++: a- UP R++ F+++ o
h++ P- OSD++: !C M pp--- L+>++ c B Cn: PT++ _/^\_
Pu62- 5 !X MT+ e-->+ r++ y++ end |_WWW_| Road
ICQ# 13434886 |WWW| Kill
Afpiance to the incredible Dilesj /_/-\_\ Hedgehog
Gizelle
>That wasn't nasty, Gizelle, that was frustrated and infuriated. There
>have been countless posts over the last few months explaining to people
>why we don't post plot speculation, why we have the FAQs, why it's
>important to read them, and so on - and all this advice is consistently
>ignored, with the predictable result that Terry now can't post here
>himself any more.
>
You are absolutely right - I guess I did exactly what I was accusing
you of by responding without taking certain things into consideration,
such as...
>Please note I said 'best', not only - if you want to know what I think
>of the group as a whole, and how grateful I am for the entertainment and
>support I've had from everyone, then I can do no better than to refer
>you to Deja News for the end of December, when I was vociferous in
>defending afp against a critic.
I do actually have vague recollections of this...
>
>Absolutely - but afp was lucky to be one of the few ng's to which the
>author of whom we are fans was posting. It did make it different and
>special, and, although it has plenty of reasons to continue to be
>special in all its other ways, that particular reason has gone.
Well, I have seen a post today that cheered me up quite a bit, so
maybe things aren't so bad after all... :-)
Gizelle
>
>You and I must be distressed, as this last sentence is incomprehensible to
>me. I'm sorry, but how is the 'minority ho' at all relevant? I don't think
>he's been caught hanging out with any seamstresses, has he?
>
The sentence was "Unfortunatly there will always be a minority ho for
on reason and another take the other road and drag Pterry's good name
towards the courts."
Translation: "Unfortunately, there will always be a minority, who -
for one reason or another - take the other road, and drag Pterry's
good name towards the courts."
Gizelle
Raihan Kibria
> So.. worry not good people of afp.. Terry's departure is not the first..
> for those that remember he departed some time ago and returned..
Spent a year dead for tax reasons, didn't he?
Raihan Kibria
>
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
>
> <whimper>
<Director>
Okay, distort your facial expression... crawl out on the structure...
now fling yourself down the bottomless shaft...
Aaaannddd... CUT!
</Director>
Raihan Kibria
> Well, when I got up this morning I found my kindly sister had sent me
> a Discworld Desk Calender, and I thought
> "Today is a very good day"
Mine said "Help Help I'm a prisoner in a Chinese Discworld Desk Calender
factory!!!" today.
Raihan Kibria
> If Terry has begun to feel uncomfortable with the kind of plot
> speculations that have been flying around this group of late,
> then I think that, sadly, he has taken the only practical course
> of action. It's just a pity that people forgot to think about the
> ramifications of their speculations before they posted them. :-(
I think it's hard to resist the temptation to post something that you
think is worthy of having been written by Mr. Pratchett himself, even if
this is not actually the case (as determined by the rest of the group).
Mr. Pratchett's style of humour is so unique (very funny while not
aggressive/offensive) that I imagine some people feel rather envious
that *they* can't come up with something as witty (Well, I certainly do
;) ).
Stuart Painting
I know that is meant to be a Douglas Adams reference, but I just
couldn't resist:
Neddie Seagoon: "Help! I'm in a play under the floorboards!"
Bluebottle: "Ohhh, you must have got a real bad agent."
IGMC...
stuart
--
Doctorum Adamus cum Flabello Dulci
Paul E. Jamison
>
[snip my smartass comment about Norman Mailer]
>
> Who?
>
Big name American mainstream author. Any book with his name on it is gonna hit
the bestseller lists. He wrote "The Naked & the Dead", "Tough Guys Don't Dance"
(IIRC) and other books you probably haven't heard of and are most likely the
better for it. From what little I've read, he's also full of himself. I can't
picture *him* being chummy with his fans.
Paul E. Jamison, Esq.
--
"BABYLON 5! A five-mile long cement mixer of truth, pouring out the
Concrete of Nice-Nice in a long, grey ribbon into the future, to form a
***SIDE WALK OF JUSTICE!!***"
- The Tick on Babylon 5
Martin Julian DeMello
: If Terry has begun to feel uncomfortable with the kind of plot
: speculations that have been flying around this group of late,
: then I think that, sadly, he has taken the only practical course
: of action. It's just a pity that people forgot to think about the
: ramifications of their speculations before they posted them. :-(
A verse from Kipling seems especially apt:
But these tear besprinkled pages
Shall attest to future ages
That we cried against the crime of it --
Too late, alas! too late!
-- Kipling, The Plea of the Simla Dancers
--
Martin DeMello
Remove the sep_field from my address to reply
Shim
topic (the topic in general, not the afpspecific topic) - apologies if you
feel otherwise.
Stephen Booth wrote in message <36c1d03b...@news.demon.co.uk>...
[snip]
>It would be interesting if peoples first posts to afp could be
>tracked down. Perhaps the first posts of those people who have
>performed significant services to afp, eg the (there is no)
>Cabal, could be recorded in the timeline.
I *know* most of the relevant posts won't be on there, but does anyone know
how far back DejaNews's posting archives go? I was doing a similar thing
about another newsgroup the other day (though I needed go back no further
than early 97) and this thought came to me...
--
-Shim.
RTC Political Officer, SPoKOS, UDIC, SEC and RFC member, CUT supporter.
AFPiance to the ever-perfect Jennifer G, and AGX-C Cheese Toastie Bearer.
Mail: sh...@shimgray.freeserve.co.uk ICQ: 30055622
Lindsay Endell
(snip re "turning into my mother)
>
> We all do you know.. well.. not into *your* mother.. I mean.. we
> couldn't *all* turn into your mother.. that would be silly.. we all turn
> into our mothers.. or fathers.. or uncles or aunts or grandparents or
> whatever.. recognising the sound advice our elders and betters gave us
> when we were young and foolish and decided to ignore it, and then
> passing that same sage advice on yourself is one of the first signs of
> incipient old-fartdom you know.. be afraid.. be *very* afraid..
>
Turning into your mother/father is generally followed closely by "When
I have children I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents
did!"
No, this will be your chance to make a whole *new* set of mistakes...
Linz
--
Oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn't say.
http://www.gofar.demon.co.uk/ - Issue 1 available now
Medusa
>But I'm now thinking that the
>best thing for a fan group is to leave it to the fans.
Good luck, keep writing, and enjoy your life.
Love,
Medusa
XXX
--
Medusa ICQ# 30023749, afpsister to Sam
From Wales, where men are men and sheep are nervous...
My URL is concealed to protect the innocent
Change taffspam8926583989 to euryale to reply
Paul E. Jamison
> Turning into your mother/father is generally followed closely by "When
> I have children I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents
> did!"
>
> No, this will be your chance to make a whole *new* set of mistakes...
This, of course, is followed after an appropriate interval by: "Just wait
until you have children of your own and see how *you* feel about being treated
this way!"
Eventually you end up exasperating your children by spoiling the grandkids.
Paul E. Jamison, Esq. (who hasn't any kids -- at least none that anyone has
told me about -- so I'm probably blowing smoke)
Jacqui
>Lindsay Endell wrote:
>
>> Turning into your mother/father is generally followed closely by "When
>> I have children I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents
>> did!"
>>
>> No, this will be your chance to make a whole *new* set of mistakes...
>
>This, of course, is followed after an appropriate interval by: "Just wait
>until you have children of your own and see how *you* feel about being
treated
>this way!"
Of course, you can always get revenge by doing the "what time do you call
this?"/"you're not behaving like that" thing on your parents... mine seem
to have been being rather irresponsible lately and my brothers[1] actually
enlisted my help to tell the APs off! [2]
Jac
[1] they still live at home [3]
[2] it even worked
[3] I haven't in years...
David Dylan
<Jac...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Hi there,
>Of course, you can always get revenge by doing the "what time do you call
>this?"/"you're not behaving like that" thing on your parents... mine seem
>to have been being rather irresponsible lately and my brothers[1] actually
>enlisted my help to tell the APs off! [2]
I live at home, again.... somehow I always try to get away, and I
always gravitate back to the parental home.....
I told my mother today "You, and your man, in bed, it's snowing....
romantic night... and you are doing paperwork? If it were me,
I wouldn't be doing paperwork..."
She just told me "You are right, because I'm doing YOUR paoerwork.."
Now, how do you argue with that?
Greetz.
DD.
esmi
>I was wondering how this was calculated/verified. I've been
>reading AFP (on and off) ever since it first appeared on the
>servers at UNI[1]. I started posting shortly after (in a very
>minor way, a few followups nothing more) and am pretty sure that
>this was before Terry started posting[2].
I'd imagine that this info could be found in the afp logs
somewhere. However, the only publically accessible places to find
it would be either the Timeline or DN (if it's archives go back
that far, that is).
>It would be interesting if peoples first posts to afp could be
>tracked down. Perhaps the first posts of those people who have
>performed significant services to afp, eg the (there is no)
>Cabal, could be recorded in the timeline.
This would require either access to the afp logs (limited to very
few) or the posters in question still having copies of their
first posts.
I'd be happy to put them together (as an indirect topic of the
timeline) if anyone could tell me where to find them...or even
better, send me copies of them. [1]
esmi
[1] And please don't suggest DN. I've got enough DN searching to
do with the extended timeline as it is!
--
Knight of the Basque (Grand Order of the Kiwi)
Founding Member of The Ridcully Appreciation Society
Read the FAQs lately? http://www.lspace.org/faq/
Me
snip
>I do not want to end up faced with a public
>accusation of plagiarism or theft; the fact that it might well have no
>legal foundation is beside the point. You don't have to be hugely
>imaginative to see that this could be damaging in other ways.
>
> snip
I have to raise the point - will leaving afp in any way benefit you (Or
PTerry, seeing as he's already left and I am unlikely to be addressing
him) from a legal standpoint? Simply not being present in no way
prevents various newbies from making speculations on future plots. Just
because you didn't read them doesn't dismiss the fact that they were
publicly available (Cue HitchHiker's rant about building plans being
available in a disused lavatory blah blah blah). Since they were
readily available, and if a twisted interpretation can be vaguely seen
as similar to a published plot line, there is little evidence available
to prove that you didn't read them! Off to court, Mr. Pratchett. Do
not pass go, do not collect 200 monetary units.
Any persons from the legal profession willing to comment?
--
Brett Taylor
Me wrote in message <36BEAD...@where.I.am>...
|I Simply not being present in no way
|prevents various newbies from making speculations on future
plots. Just
|because you didn't read them doesn't dismiss the fact that
they were
|publicly available (Cue HitchHiker's rant about building
plans being
|available in a disused lavatory blah blah blah). Since
they were
|readily available, and if a twisted interpretation can be
vaguely seen
|as similar to a published plot line, there is little
evidence available
|to prove that you didn't read them! Off to court, Mr.
Pratchett. Do
|not pass go, do not collect 200 monetary units.
IANAL. But the normal test for things is what would the
person on the number 27 to lewisham think.[1] that is what
would the average member of the public draw in conclusion to
the evidance brought before them.
To use the analogy "Me" used if it were sated that plans
for a local by-pass where posted in say the Local councils
disused basement but the notice to say that the plans was
only posted to the local paper of another town. the average
person would mostlikly think that it would be unreaasonable,
that interested paries were not given chance to object.
In a creative enviroment pterry or any other author /
composer / lyracist would try to establish a defence of not
being familiar with the work of the other party. The
newsgroup access is a cloudy issue but to draw an analogy
with a large library how could you proe that you never ever
had contact with another Author`s works if that person had
books in print and carried in a library.
If you want to see whole sale rip offs of copyright
matierial I would only have to point you towards the music
indutry especialy those groups who employ samplers. I am
thiking of say the Tamperers record which samples the
jackson 5's can you feal it. though of course I am not
accusing them of anything under hand as they probably did
seak and gain permition to use that piece in thier song.
Finaly as I have said elsewhere the damage Pterry is
worried about is that to his reputation in the eyes of the
general public via the news media. and not the potential
problems of a court case. The public can and often does
have Knee jurk reactions / opinions. thake as a poor
example the Louise Woodwood case. ignoring the actual
outcome. if she had been found guilty then quite rightly
she would have been refered to as a murderer. if she was
aquited then no matter that there had been vindication of
her inocence in a court of law her personal reputation would
be tarnished I doubt any parrent would trust her to look
after thier child even though she in this example was not
guilty. the damage done by the court case and the reporting
there in of.[2]
[1] genuine legal phrase for the man in the street.
[2] the case used was picked as it was high profile.
brett.
--
APFiance to Debplod Automultipunctuator & KkatD~2 twice as
nice
Apf friend to the archetecturaly stunning Inneke
Treasure of the Mad Purple womman
ICQ 27798560
John Wilkins
{$linz$news$}@gofar.demon.co.uk wrote:
|Gid Holyoake wrote:
|
|(snip re "turning into my mother)
|>
|> We all do you know.. well.. not into *your* mother.. I mean.. we
|> couldn't *all* turn into your mother.. that would be silly.. we all turn
|> into our mothers.. or fathers.. or uncles or aunts or grandparents or
|> whatever.. recognising the sound advice our elders and betters gave us
|> when we were young and foolish and decided to ignore it, and then
|> passing that same sage advice on yourself is one of the first signs of
|> incipient old-fartdom you know.. be afraid.. be *very* afraid..
|>
|Turning into your mother/father is generally followed closely by "When
|I have children I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents
|did!"
|
|No, this will be your chance to make a whole *new* set of mistakes...
|
|Linz
Which is never taken, and the old ones are just varied a little...
Melody Shanahan-Kluth
Paul E. Jamison wrote in message <36BDF84F...@wichita.infi.net>...
>Lindsay Endell wrote:
>
>> Turning into your mother/father is generally followed closely by "When
>> I have children I'm not going to make the same mistakes my parents
>> did!"
SNIP
Hmmm...my kids range in age from 5 to 24 and I have to admit to saying the
things said here including the above <g> However..I have found that one of
the joys of being a mother to older teenagers is being able to embarass them
(nicely)...you know like tap dancing across the room when they bring their
friends around...out drinking them in a pub (and staying sober) being able
to talk to them about sex without going red (unlike my own mother) and
generally being reasonably 'cool' ( or should that have read k3wl?hmmmm
maybe not...I did read that thread) My eldest 2 (22 year old son and 24 year
old daughter) are both in the process now of becoming parents
themselves......and guess what? <VBG> They *know* what they will say and do
with their kids
MWuhhhhhaahahahahahahah
(I love them really...and they love me too <g>)
Melody
XX
Cybercat
wrote:
>This would require either access to the afp logs (limited to very
>few)...
Won't work, as the afp logs are not complete. I know for a fact my
first post to afp isn't in the logs at all, only a reply to a reply to
that message (assuming that was my first message anyway, it's the
first I could find.)
--
"'I wonder how far the barometer's sunk?' he said.
'All der way,' said Detritus gloomyly. 'Trust me on dis.'"
AFP Code 1.0 ANL$>C$ d s+: a- UP+ R F++ h+ P--- OSD--: C? M-
pp--- L c- B+ Cn+:+ PT+++ Pu63 5+ X+ MT++ e+(++) r! !y+ end
Gizelle
>I have to raise the point - will leaving afp in any way benefit you (Or
>PTerry, seeing as he's already left and I am unlikely to be addressing
>him) from a legal standpoint? Simply not being present in no way
>prevents various newbies from making speculations on future plots. Just
>because you didn't read them doesn't dismiss the fact that they were
>publicly available (Cue HitchHiker's rant about building plans being
>available in a disused lavatory blah blah blah). Since they were
>readily available, and if a twisted interpretation can be vaguely seen
>as similar to a published plot line, there is little evidence available
>to prove that you didn't read them! Off to court, Mr. Pratchett. Do
>not pass go, do not collect 200 monetary units.
>
>Any persons from the legal profession willing to comment?
>
IANAL, but generally the onus would be on the plaintiff to prove that
an idea was stolen, therefore to prove that Pterry read the idea
(either on afp or elsewhere) prior to his having written it.
Having made a public statement that he will no longer read afp means
that should someone accuse him of having stolen or copied an idea,
they are in effect calling him a liar which leaves them open to libel
or slander charges should they not be able to prove that he still
reads afp.
Why is it that when trying to explain a legal concept, I find myself
unable to express my meaning in simple clear language and have to
resort to such convoluted sentences? I am now going to be stuck in
this mode the rest of the day....
Debplod
Debplod (thats me!) schrieb:
>> Well, when I got up this morning I found my kindly sister had sent me
>> a Discworld Desk Calender, and I thought
>> "Today is a very good day"
Raihan replied:>
>Mine said "Help Help I'm a prisoner in a Chinese Discworld Desk Calender
>factory!!!" today.
LOL
Raihan, you are totally nuts! <g>
I feel totally guilty about the calender now, and shall have to put it
in a box alongside the Nike trainers and Nestle chocolate bars. :-(
You will be glad to know I will be writing to Amnesty International
to let them know of your sisters plight, but is she sure she wants
to be set free? She is enslaved, but doing a very worthwhile job,
surrounded by the wisdom of Pratchett, what more could she ask for?
(Apart from food, clothes and payment of course!)
--
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa
AH Willis
[in response to some stuff about legal niceties regarding libel etc]
> IANAL. But the normal test for things is what would the
>person on the number 27 to lewisham think.[1] that is what
>would the average member of the public draw in conclusion to
>the evidance brought before them.
>
Surely it's "the Man on the Clapham Omnibus"? The man on the number 27
to Lewisham couldn't have an opinion on anything 'cos he doesn't exist.
The number 27 goes to Chalk Farm.
And no, I'm not the bus equivalent of a trainspotter, I just have reason
to know this.
[1] not my footnote
--
AH Willis
Brett Taylor
AH Willis wrote in message ...
Its just suposed to refer to the average person in the
street
David Dylan
Hi there,
>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
>apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa
Erhm..... I'm from the carribean..... I imagine the brittish would
live by this rule, but our (tropical) sex-life is a tad bit more
interesting....
In other words: BAD ADVICE!!
Greetz.
DD.
Paul E. Jamison
You know, my ex-SO tried to get me interested in an ocean cruise back in
happier times. If she'd mentioned this, I think I would have been
*much* more receptive.
Paul E. Jamison, Esq.
Añejo
>On 09 Feb 1999 20:21:33 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debplod) wrote:
>>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
>>apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa
>
>Erhm..... I'm from the carribean..... I imagine the brittish would
>live by this rule, but our (tropical) sex-life is a tad bit more
>interesting....
Sheesh, it wasn't when I lived there!
Probably because the vast majority of my friends were
merkins or canadadadadadadians in disguise. ::sigh::
I'm going to have to stop hanging around with Marines...
Añejo - hoping that didn't sound _quite_ as bad as she
thinks it did!
Miq
>David Dylan wrote in message <36c1ba97...@news.xs4all.nl>...
>>On 09 Feb 1999 20:21:33 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debplod) wrote:
>>>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
>>
>>live by this rule, but our (tropical) sex-life is a tad bit more
>>interesting....
>
>Sheesh, it wasn't when I lived there!
>
>
>thinks it did!
Just to put your mind at rest: it did. HTH, HAND. ;o)
--
Miq
"Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb; honey and milk are
under thy tongue..."
Debplod
In article <36c1ba97...@news.xs4all.nl>
<wakes up>
Hey, this is *my* sig-
>>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
>>apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa [1]
nob...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
>Erhm..... I'm from the carribean..... I imagine the brittish would
>live by this rule, but our (tropical) sex-life is a tad bit more
>interesting....
>
>In other words: BAD ADVICE!!
Depends where you'd put your toothbrush surely <sorry> :-)
Actually, it's one of Nanny Oggs sayings, so how clean can it be?
Debplod
[1] By the way, Charissa says hi, her computer is off to visit the
computer equivalent of the doctors, so she's still offline for a
bit. Here's hoping she'll get some good news soon! [2]
[2] oh, and cheers to Megamole for being such a bright shiny *star*
--
Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
(Hmm... perhaps change of sig. due!)
Lindsay Endell
Melody Shanahan-Kluth wrote in message
<79ncql$fbm$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>...
>>
>Hmmm...my kids range in age from 5 to 24 and I have to admit to
saying the
>things said here including the above <g> However..I have found that
one of
>the joys of being a mother to older teenagers is being able to
embarass them
>(nicely)...you know like tap dancing across the room when they
bring their
>friends around...out drinking them in a pub (and staying sober)
being able
>to talk to them about sex without going red (unlike my own mother)
and
>generally being reasonably 'cool' ( or should that have read
k3wl?hmmmm
>maybe not...I did read that thread) My eldest 2 (22 year old son
and 24 year
>old daughter) are both in the process now of becoming parents
>themselves......and guess what? <VBG> They *know* what they will
say and do
>with their kids
>
romantic interest is brought home for the first time!
I still wince at that - the first time I met my now in-laws was when
I went to stay over new year. The very first evening, the baby
photos came out, much to both Matt's and my embarrassment...
Debplod
Supermouse
gofar.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You forgot... bringing out the baby photos when a new
>romantic interest is brought home for the first time!
I am fortunate in not having in existence any photographs as me as a
youngster and only one or two as an adult.
I shall also be spared hooting youngsters when and if I ever develop
small experiments on the theme of Rodent to carry the torch for me. None
of those cringing 'you wore *that*?!' exclamations twenty fashion years
down the line.
Happily,
--
Supermouse
Once, twice, three times a Rodent
Richard Eney
Supermouse <Super...@warnco.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I am fortunate in not having in existence any photographs as me as a
>youngster and only one or two as an adult.
>
>I shall also be spared hooting youngsters when and if I ever develop
>small experiments on the theme of Rodent to carry the torch for me. None
>of those cringing 'you wore *that*?!' exclamations twenty fashion years
>down the line.
As teens, they'll be cringing 'you wore *that*?!' the same day you wear
the clothes, never mind waiting 20 years.
=Tamar
jester
<36c1ba97...@news.xs4all.nl>:
>On 09 Feb 1999 20:21:33 GMT, deb...@aol.com (Debplod) wrote:
>
>Hi there,
>
>>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
>>apfiance to the charming Brett. afpfriend to Charissa
>
>Erhm..... I'm from the carribean..... I imagine the brittish would
>live by this rule, but our (tropical) sex-life is a tad bit more
>interesting....
>
>In other words: BAD ADVICE!!
I dunno, I can't think of anywhere I'd put my tongue that a toothbrush
would be totally inappropriate.
<fx:listens to comment from over shoulder>
<fx:thinks>
Nope, they all know I'm sick and perverted anyway
Andy Brown
--
http://www.innotts.co.uk/~jester/ | Unsound Engineer to the MAS
AFP Code V1.1a AC$/Mu-UK dx@ s-:@ a UP+ R>+ F h> P-- OSD:>- ?C M-
pp--- L C- B+ Cn-:+ PT++ PU68@ 5 X++ MT+ eV++ r- y*-- end
Kevin Hackett
Lindsay Endell <{$linz$news$}@gofar.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
<7a18vu$80k$1...@yama.mcc.ac.uk>...
<massive snip of embarassing Mumishness>
>Melody! You forgot... bringing out the baby photos when a new
>romantic interest is brought home for the first time!
Or do as my mother did when my sister had... how shall we say... had a
temporary overlap of boyfriends.
'So, Darren - oh, sorry, that's the other one!' :-)
>I still wince at that - the first time I met my now in-laws was when
>I went to stay over new year. The very first evening, the baby
>photos came out, much to both Matt's and my embarrassment...
Well, one of my other sister's boyfriend (now husband) had a good first
visit. He drove into the back of my third sister's (yeah, big family. I
blame having so little TV [1]) car an hour after she'd come down for the
first visit in ages. I think he'd rather have seen baby pictures than help
my dad re-attach the bumpers.
[1] I was originally going to say 'I blame "Muffin the Mule"', but that
gives a whole new spin on it... :-S
Treat these visits as an initiation ceremony. Either that or a filtering
system. Anyone who makes it through can survive anything.
Cheers,
Kevin
On balance, I'd rather be a millionaire
Mark
get him into leagal trouble [1], which I agree with, then he was quite right
to leave afp. I'm sad to see him go, but at least there is still abp and his
books.
[1] Even thogh he has the Men With Thin Watches and a lot of money.
--
__ __ _
| \/ |__ _ _ _| | __ markb...@argonet.co.uk
| |\/| / _` | '_| |/ / Acorn User-and proud of it! :-p
|_| |_\__,_|_| |_|\_\ "I'll just get my coat"
David Dylan
<kev...@robotribe.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
Hi there,
>Treat these visits as an initiation ceremony. Either that or a filtering
>system. Anyone who makes it through can survive anything.
If I bring a girl home, what ensues is the great welcome meeting.
All my brothers and sisters, plus mother (and I guess since recently,
Husband) sit her down, and fire away with questions... name, hobbies,
education, etc. It's not so much what she replies as how she does it
that seems to count...
Greetz.
DD.
Adrian Hurt
>
>Depends where you'd put your toothbrush surely <sorry> :-)
>
>Actually, it's one of Nanny Oggs sayings, so how clean can it be?
>
>
>--
>Never put your tongue where you wouldn't put your toothbrush
What worries me about this is that I know someone who gets his toothbrushes
autographed. The first was signed by Terry Pratchett; there is now a
numbered, indexex collection.
--
"It'll be alright. I've done this before." - M. Garibaldi
-----------------+------------------------------+------------------
Adrian Hurt | E-mail: adr...@cee.hw.ac.uk |
| UKRA: 1026 | Po: MIA 26/8/98
doc
with us the following wisdom...
> So.. worry not good people of afp.. Terry's departure is not the first..
> for those that remember he departed some time ago and returned..
>
Djeeeeezus...! Long time ago, was it? Anniversary April 2nd/4th this
year? Good grief.
doc.
Janice Wright
According to my (probably innacurate[1]) calculations:
computer time = 3x real time
internet time = 3x computer time
So a computer goes 'out of date' (i.e. becomes a doorstop) 3 times
faster than any other consumer electronics, and one year on the 'net
seems like 9 years IRL. So last April is indeed 'a long time ago'.
And those of us OFs[2] who remember the 'net more than five years
ago, in The Time Before Mosaic, are indeed talking about ancient
history.
Janice
[1] would this be a good time to point out that I failed my
maths A-levels twice?
[2] with or without hats
reply-to is spamtrapped; please remove the end of the alphabet
--
jawright at nortelnetworks dot com
"Error in REALITY.SYS. Run BIG_BANG.EXE (Y/N)?"
[.sig acquired from Mack B.]
Gidjabolgo
news:36CBDF88...@xyznortelnetworks.com...
>And those of us OFs[2] who remember the 'net more than five years
>ago, in The Time Before Mosaic, are indeed talking about ancient
>history.
Maybe you could help me then, I've been wondering what program/protocol
I used when I sat chatting with some Australian student named Carline
Jones (hello?) back in 1989. It ran on the Uni's VAX/VMS system, as I
recall...
>[2] with or without hats
I like wearing a hat, but my SO tells me I look like a twerp. I thought
that was the whole idea?
Gidjabolgo, recalling how impressed he was by an IBM AT once
--
Home at http://hem2.passagen.se/gidjabol/
Mail to gidj...@hem2.passagen.se
A Non-Humourous Sig (tm)
.Nisaba Merrieweather
Gidjabolgo wrote in message <7atvli$e8p$1...@library.lspace.org>...
>Janice Wright <jawr...@xyznortelnetworks.com> wrote in message
>news:36CBDF88...@xyznortelnetworks.com...
>>And those of us OFs[2] who remember the 'net more than five years
>>ago, in The Time Before Mosaic, are indeed talking about ancient
>>history.
<disbelieving snort>
People so young shouldn't be allowed to drive a modem by themselves without
adult supervision.
>Maybe you could help me then, I've been wondering what program/protocol
>I used when I sat chatting with some Australian student named Carline
>Jones (hello?) back in 1989
<grin> I didn't know the student but I was regularly modemming back then on
a 2400 baud modem which was then the fastest thing on wheels. February 1989,
was when I got started on this kind of stuff - to me up until then computers
had been glorified, liquid paper-free typewriters.
_
.Nisaba Merrieweather
nis...@tac.com.au
ICQ: 29030378
Subscribe to .Nisaba's mailing list by going to www.onelist.com.## The
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