[I] The French and English
Sylvain Chambon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
"Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
Andrew Irish
> Seen on the BBC website:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>
> Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
> one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
> "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
They'll start saying "Terribly sorry, old bean, but I just can't
understand you're accent, you see?"?
> Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
For reading a book in English? I guess it is rather simple language,
which makes it easier to translate fluently. When will a French author
write something that makes all the English children read it in French?
:) (Even Asterisk was translated...)
--
Andrew
Sylvain Chambon
> Sylvain Chambon wrote:
> > Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
> > one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
> > "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
>
> They'll start saying "Terribly sorry, old bean, but I just can't
> understand you're accent, you see?"?
;-)
> > Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
>
> For reading a book in English? I guess it is rather simple language,
> which makes it easier to translate fluently.
A foreign language is a foreign language, and English is hard enough...
Stop spoiling the good news! <g>
> When will a French author
> write something that makes all the English children read it in French?
> :) (Even Asterisk was translated...)
Somehow I don't think it's the children who read the English Harry
Potter... (Although they may study it in class. They start learning
foreign languages awfully early nowadays, around 9 or 10).
Sylvain.
CCA
>Seen on the BBC website:
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>
>Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
>one...
I knew even before I read the article which book it would be.
<Muttermutterthatbloodywomanmutter>
CCA:)
--
Family Bites Website at www.falboroughhall.co.uk
Steve James
It is a well planned plot to make English THE language of Europe.
Steve (Steeljam) *BF DAcFD (UU) *
Resident Opsimath in Redivivus Studies
Alec Cawley
> In article <MPG.196ba7b5a...@news.cis.dfn.de>,
> sgpch...@yahoo.com (Sylvain Chambon) wrote:
>
>> Seen on the BBC website:
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>>
>> Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
>> one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
>> "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
>>
>> Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
>>
> It is a well planned plot to make English THE language of Europe.
"Cry God for Harry, England and St. George" W Shakespeare.
I thought that referred to Henry V, but now I see it is really Harry P. When
does St George turn up?
--
@lec Šawley
Knig fo teh tyops
Aquarion
> Sylvain Chambon wrote
>
>
>
>>Seen on the BBC website:
>>
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>>
>>Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
>>one...
>
> I knew even before I read the article which book it would be.
><Muttermutterthatbloodywomanmutter>
> CCA:)
CCA, I hereby withdraw any and every complaint I ever had about your
publishment permeating every aspect of AFP, since I can now see it as a
light shower of sales-pitch, rather than the current flooding deluge of
burning sales pitch that appears to currently be soaking every single
aspect of life in the entire world.
And this is the fifth book. By the seventh they are going to have to
tatoo the front cover into the moon, have the entire series (and films)
played simultaiously on every radio and TV frequency simultainously,
read aloud with David Beckham doing the male bits and the Queen
doing the female bits with a chorus of the Hollywood top 100 narrating
the voice-over in six part harmony. Said book will be three feet high,
at least a foot thick and be the cause of hundreds of small children
being crushed, not to mention the thousands of postmen with hernias from
delivering it, and Jeff Bezos being made the richest man in the
universe.
And all this will be for an entirely blank book, except on the very last
page, when it will say:
"But Voldemort choked on some bad tuna over the summer holidays and
died, so they all lived happily ever after".
JKR will be unavailable for comment, because her new personal
space-station (with it's unique dollar-powered engines) will be halfway
to pluto at that point.
*And* we still won't have flying cars or robots.
--
Aquarion, http://www.aquarionics.com, aqua...@suespammers.org
Q: How many dull people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: one.
FiX
> Sylvain Chambon wrote:
> > Seen on the BBC website:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
> >
> > Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
> > one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
> > "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
That's still true, you know, even though we read and write English
fairly well ;-)
> They'll start saying "Terribly sorry, old bean, but I just can't
> understand you're accent, you see?"?
Well, as much as I try to understand this sentence '("...but I just
can't uncerstand that you are accent"), which proves that us Frenchmen
don't understand English all that well...
Shirley you didn't mean "your accent"[1], did you? <G&D>
> > Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
Compatriots are there so that you can safely express scorn. Being
proud of them is Not Allowed.
> For reading a book in English? I guess it is rather simple language,
> which makes it easier to translate fluently.
As a matter of fact, litteral translation from English is rather easy,
because the language is structurally simple and has few
grammar/spelling exceptions compared to, say, Franch. However, the
difficulty in understanding an English book lies in the fact that
English people are _strange_ ;-P
>When will a French author
> write something that makes all the English children read it in French?
> :) (Even Asterisk was translated...)
I somehow doubt that it's children that read HP in English, but it's
due to withdrawal symptoms that I started reading books in Enmglish:
when you are desperately looking for new books from an American author
(Zelazny, in my case), and know that there are about 5 of his books
have not yet been translated, getting hold of a dictionary and
starting to read them in English seems like a good idea at the time.
Little do you then know that 20 years later you'll be one of the poor
sods who keep on trying to quit buying books[2][3] because their
shelves have been full for 10 years and the cellar starts being too
tiny for both books and wine ;-P
FiX
[1] as if it was that simple: as I remarked to the people in the Green
Man meet, I would be able to understand _one_ English accent.
Unfortunately, _every_ English person thinks it funny to invent their
own accent ;-P
[2] unsuccessfully, addiction is too strong[4]
[3] by the way, I've now stopped smoking for 192 days exactly, and
calculated that I've now save over 1000 euro. That's right, over 50
bottles of very good wine ;-)
[4] I recently told Kim that I had 4000 books. That was a mistake: I
have ~3000 books (more than 2000 of them being in English), but have
trouble counting on my fingers...
Brian Howlett
[snip]
> it will say:
>
> "But Voldemort choked on some bad tuna over the summer holidays and
> died, so they all lived happily ever after".
Well, I won't need to buy that one now...
>
[snip]
>
> *And* we still won't have flying cars or robots.
>
Yeah? That's what you think. My flying car is being delivered by robot
just as soon as I win the lottery...
--
Brian Howlett
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holiday report from the Orkneys - <http://www.jaggies.btinternet.co.uk/orkney/>
Petri Sakari Holopainen
<ne...@spamspam.co.uk> wrote:
>Steve James wrote:
>> It is a well planned plot to make English THE language
>>of Europe.
>"Cry God for Harry, England and St. George" W
>Shakespeare. I thought that referred to Henry V,
>but now I see it is really Harry P.
>When does St George turn up?
Oh, he's turned up already. He's currently across the
pond waiting for himself being proclaimed a saint.
Because after all he is the knight in shining armour
who is defending the whole free world, or at least USA.
Petri
CCA
>Take a letter Miss Jones: To CCA, Re: [I] The French and English:
>> Sylvain Chambon wrote
>>>Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
>>>one...
>> I knew even before I read the article which book it would be.
>><Muttermutterthatbloodywomanmutter>
>> CCA:)
>CCA, I hereby withdraw any and every complaint I ever had about your
>publishment permeating every aspect of AFP, since I can now see it as a
>light shower of sales-pitch, rather than the current flooding deluge of
>burning sales pitch that appears to currently be soaking every single
>aspect of life in the entire world.
I just wish she'd give me some of her money. I mean, she can't be needing it
*all*, can she?
I wonder if I'd ever be able to do the same sort of merchandising with my
characters as she has with hers? <Thinks> Anyone fancy making a Lego
Falborough Hall? <g>
Andrew Irish
> Andrew Irish <use...@dearg.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:<bds69c$krn$1...@library.lspace.org>...
>
>> Sylvain Chambon wrote:
>>
>>> Seen on the BBC website:
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>>>
>>> Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an
>>> English-language one, maybe French people will stop introducing
>>> themsleves as "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
>
> That's still true, you know, even though we read and write English
> fairly well ;-)
>
>> They'll start saying "Terribly sorry, old bean, but I just can't
>> understand you're accent, you see?"?
>
> Well, as much as I try to understand this sentence '("...but I just
> can't uncerstand that you are accent"), which proves that us
> Frenchmen don't understand English all that well...
>
> Shirley you didn't mean "your accent"[1], did you? <G&D>
Ooops, yes, I did. That is why I shouldn't post when tired, I tend to
leave the spelling to my fingers, and they aren't terribly good at it,
and don't always listen properly, either...
>>> Sylvain (strangely proud of his compatriots, for once).
<snip>
>> For reading a book in English? I guess it is rather simple
>> language, which makes it easier to translate fluently.
>
> As a matter of fact, litteral translation from English is rather
> easy,
Yes, I guess it must be - I always found it easier to go from English to
French than French to English...
> because the language is structurally simple and has few
> grammar/spelling exceptions compared to, say, Franch. However, the
> difficulty in understanding an English book lies in the fact that
> English people are _strange_ ;-P
Ah, non, mon ami, c'est les Francais qui sont étrange...
Well, not /all/ of us are strange. Some of us are just unique...
>> When will a French author write something that makes all the
>> English children read it in French? :) (Even Asterisk was
>> translated...)
>
> I somehow doubt that it's children that read HP in English,
French adults read it? I didn't know it would appeal to them as much.
What would they make of the Beauxbatons?
> but it's due to withdrawal symptoms that I started reading books in
> Enmglish: when you are desperately looking for new books from an
> American author (Zelazny, in my case), and know that there are about
> 5 of his books have not yet been translated, getting hold of a
> dictionary and starting to read them in English seems like a good
> idea at the time.
Don't you have French authors that as as entertaining? Or is it our
strangeness that leads us to write better books? :)
> Little do you then know that 20 years later you'll
> be one of the poor sods who keep on trying to quit buying books[2][3]
> because their shelves have been full for 10 years and the cellar
> starts being too tiny for both books and wine ;-P
Aww, you poor thing :)
If you sell some of the wine, there will be much more room... (now it's
my turn to grin and duck...)
> FiX
>
> [1] as if it was that simple: as I remarked to the people in the
> Green Man meet, I would be able to understand _one_ English accent.
> Unfortunately, _every_ English person thinks it funny to invent their
> own accent ;-P
Yes, and then there are them thar colloquialisms. The further north and
west you go, the stranger the accents get.
> [2] unsuccessfully, addiction is too strong[4] [3] by the way, I've
> now stopped smoking for 192 days exactly, and calculated that I've
> now save over 1000 euro. That's right, over 50 bottles of very good
> wine ;-)
Oooh, congratulations! Does this also mean that you can actually
/taste/ the wine now? ;)
> [4] I recently told Kim that I had 4000 books. That was a mistake: I
> have ~3000 books (more than 2000 of them being in English), but have
> trouble counting on my fingers...
That's understandable, I don't know many people with 3000-odd fingers,
and the ones I do know don't like to go outside often.
--
Andrew
Maaike
>[3] by the way, I've now stopped smoking for 192 days exactly, and
>calculated that I've now save over 1000 euro. That's right, over 50
>bottles of very good wine ;-)
Bravo! Yay for FiX!
-Maaike (Yes, it's an OLF, but such an achievement must be
congratulated.)
Brian Wakeling
Alec Cawley <ne...@spamspam.co.uk> typed:
He's one of the Weasly twins, who qvq n ehaare with his brother,
Fred (ROT13'd just to be on the safe side).
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
"Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the
hell happened."
Graycat
wrote:
Into what, Littlestar?
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/index.html
From adress valid, but rarely checked. Use Reply-To to contact me
Sylvain Chambon
> > (Even Asterisk was translated...)
>
> Into what, Littlestar?
You owe my employer a new keyboard.
Sylvain.
Axel Kielhorn
> Seen on the BBC website:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3034726.stm
>
> Now that the best-selling book in France is actually an English-language
> one, maybe French people will stop introducing themsleves as
> "Sorryidon'tspeakenglishverywell".
They are only doing this to spite the USA:-)
Axel
--
I'm doing this for your own damn good
You'll make up for what I blew
What's the problem ... Why are you crying
"Perfect" by Alanis Morissette
flesh_eating_dragon
> As a matter of fact, litteral translation from English is rather easy,
> because the language is structurally simple and has few
> grammar/spelling exceptions compared to, say, Franch. However, the
> difficulty in understanding an English book lies in the fact that
> English people are _strange_ ;-P
The "Language, Culture and Communication" course that I've now
completed was very interesting.
Our lecturer was French, and many of the class readings used French
examples of whatever the readings were about (generally, the ways in
which cultures can differ from each other). As a result we learned
quite a lot about French culture.
For example in Anglo-Saxon countries (such as Australia), when two
people are talking to each other it is the listener's responsibility
to pay attention to what the speaker has to say. In France, OTOH, it
is the speaker's responsibility to keep the listener interested and
entertained. This difference of cultural values affects the way in
which conversations proceed.
Anglo-Saxon cultures place great emphasis on not hurting other
people's feelings with unfavourable opinions. French culture
emphasises sincerity - saying what you really think. Consequently the
French percieve Australians and the English and so on as being
insincere, whilst the English et cetera percieve the French as being
arrogant. In this way, cultural prejudices are often based, in part,
on actual cultural differences.
In France, it's more than acceptable to interrupt people when they are
speaking; indeed interrupting is a way of expressing interest and
enthusiasm for the conversation. In France, people don't hesitate to
take an item (say, stationery) from a colleague's desk without asking
permission; after all - say the French - the item does not belong to
the colleague but is provided by the company. In France, if a
colleague's office door is open you don't call their name or in any
way hesitate to walk right inside; on the contrary it is _their_
responsibility to notice your approach and acknowledge your arrival.
In France, as these and other examples show, everything is completely
different.
That's a sample of the sort of things we learned about the French.
Now, FIX, you were saying ... ??
Adrian.
Sylvain Chambon
> The "Language, Culture and Communication" course that I've now
> completed was very interesting.
>
> Our lecturer was French, and many of the class readings used French
> examples of whatever the readings were about (generally, the ways in
> which cultures can differ from each other). As a result we learned
> quite a lot about French culture.
<snip "French culture">
Can I say "oversimplification", "huge generalisations" and "copious
amounts of wishful thinking" here?
Sylvain.
Topi Saavalainen
news:MPG.196f64215...@news.cis.dfn.de:
> Can I say "oversimplification", "huge generalisations" and "copious
> amounts of wishful thinking" here?
Look, look! A straightforwardly expressed sincere opinion!
Topi.
PeterH
I suppose it should be Coffee Code, actually, but since those who
drink tea or coke at their computers are included it should...
Caffeine Code? Sorry, it's evidently Friday afternoon, let's just get
on with it, shall we.
Right, here goes. How funny was your post?
K+++++ : Made me spray coffee[1] all over the keyboard, monitor,
desk, modem, telephone and mouse, and some of it hit my employer in
the face as he walked past.
K++++ : Not only did I spill the coffee but most of it flowed down
to the wiring at the back and electrocuted the cat.
K+++ : Smoke is curling up from the monitor. The desk is covered
in warm brown beverage and some of it is dripping down onto my legs.
People in the office/housemates/family members/assorted pets are
giving me funny looks. The keyboard is out of action.
K++ : Most of the key board is now gunned together. I an reduced
to using voice recognition soft wear
K+ : All but the numeric keypad were spared, thankfully. As an
added bonus, I can no longer adequately use my accounting program and
have decided to change careers.
K : You owe me a new keyboard. This one's dirty now.
K- : It's a shame to waste this coffee, but what the hell. I'll
just pour a little bit over heerre... You owe my employer a new
keyboard.
K-- : The boss caught me in the act of destroying my keyboard.
You owe me a new job.
K--- : I'd already finished my coffee anyway...
K---- : I think I'm going to be sick...
K----- : You owe me a new carpet.
Only complete and utter bastards would actually use this code, though.
Still, every other post on afp recently has featured keyboards being
abused in some way, so this was a logical step. For me, anyway.
Oh, and Graycat's post should defintely not rate a mere K- on this
scale. K+++ at least. :)
..PeterH
(peterhjr at the uk's Yahoo)
[1] Replace "coffee" with the beverage of your choice
Sylvain Chambon
Touché!
<g>
Sylvain.
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>Date: 04/07/03 08:24 GMT Daylight Time
>Message-id: <77f9757f.03070...@posting.google.com>
>
>The "Language, Culture and Communication" course that I've now
>completed was very interesting.
>
>Our lecturer was French, and many of the class readings used French
>examples of whatever the readings were about (generally, the ways in
>which cultures can differ from each other). As a result we learned
>quite a lot about French culture.
<snip>
>Anglo-Saxon cultures place great emphasis on not hurting other
>people's feelings with unfavourable opinions. French culture
>emphasises sincerity - saying what you really think. Consequently the
>French percieve Australians and the English and so on as being
>insincere, whilst the English et cetera percieve the French as being
>arrogant. In this way, cultural prejudices are often based, in part,
>on actual cultural differences.
You can see this in Poirot (who is, of course, a Belgian written by an
Englishwoman). He often gets remonstrated with by Hastings about his apparent
conceitedness and replies with something like, "But /mon ami/, I *am* the
greatest detective I know of. To pretend otherwise, it would be dishonest, no?"
Oh, and the British stereotype of Aussies is that *you* tend to say what you
think, and don't mind admitting you're the best, as well...
--
Dave
Now Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc for FOUR years
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"Nanotechnology could be huge."
Lord Sainsbury, Science and Innovation Minister
Eric Jarvis
>
> <snip "French culture">
>
> Can I say "oversimplification", "huge generalisations" and "copious
> amounts of wishful thinking" here?
>
of course you can't...that's what Usenet is for after
all...oversimplification, huge generalisations and
copious amounts of wishful thinking that is...take those
away and there wouldn't be a hundred posts a day on the
entirety of Usenet [1]
[1] though most would probably be from afpers
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
Graycat
Oh I'm sure they've got insurance for things like these :o)
(PS, yay! My first C|N->K)
flesh_eating_dragon
> > Our lecturer was French, and many of the class readings used French
> > examples of whatever the readings were about (generally, the ways in
> > which cultures can differ from each other). As a result we learned
> > quite a lot about French culture.
>
> <snip "French culture">
>
> Can I say "oversimplification", "huge generalisations" and "copious
> amounts of wishful thinking" here?
Provided that I can respond with words such as "inevitability",
although I'm not sure what you mean about the wishful thinking.
Summaries are supposed to simplify - that's what they're for. But my
previous post is based on articles mostly from the Australian Review
of Applied Linguistics, which were on the whole backed up by the
commentary of the French lecturer, so I'm inclined to believe there is
something in it. Any comments you make, of course, are interesting
too.
Adrian.
(P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
"good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
flesh_eating_dragon
> Oh, and the British stereotype of Aussies is that *you* tend to say what you
> think, and don't mind admitting you're the best, as well...
There's a simple explanation for that.
Adrian.
Sylvain Chambon
flesh_eating_dragon says...
> Sylvain Chambon wrote, quoting myself:
>
> >
> > Can I say "oversimplification", "huge generalisations" and "copious
> > amounts of wishful thinking" here?
>
> Provided that I can respond with words such as "inevitability",
Yeah, I know... But I always get edgy when people start making
definitive statements about sixty million people who have nothing much
more in common than their place of birth...
(If that reassures you, I react in the same way when people start making
definitive statements about "the British" or "the Americans" or "the
Whereverians")
> although I'm not sure what you mean about the wishful thinking.
What made me wince was that a lot of things seemed to make us appear in
a better light than we deserve... The phrasing turned defects into
qualities, in general.
For instance, you, I suppose quoting your lecturer, wrote that French
people don't worry about hurting other people's feelings, and value
sincerity above all else.
Which is simply a waaaaaaay too nice way of saying we're insensitive
bastards... Because it's not sincerity that's valued, but the appearance
of sincerity. People wouldn't think twice about distorting the truth if
that made made appear more truthful, if you see what I mean.
(But then, maybe it was diplomatic phrasing on your part <g>)
> Summaries are supposed to simplify - that's what they're for. But my
> previous post is based on articles mostly from the Australian Review
> of Applied Linguistics, which were on the whole backed up by the
> commentary of the French lecturer, so I'm inclined to believe there is
> something in it.
Which is where the wishful thinking comes in... Never take a Frenchman's
word on what the French are like... Especially expats[1]... Note that
that includes what I'm saying too <g>, if you want to have an idea of
what we're like you really should come over for a year or so.
> (P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
> the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
> Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
> "good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
Er, thanks from the people who provided the uninteresting answers.
Sylvain.
[1] No matter how you dislike your country, when you expatriate it
suddenly becomes the cradle of civilisation...
flesh_eating_dragon
> For instance, you, I suppose quoting your lecturer, wrote that French
> people don't worry about hurting other people's feelings, and value
> sincerity above all else.
Well, most of the time I was paraphrasing articles. In particular two
articles by Christine Béal, neither of which are on the web, but the
pdf file <http://linguistics.anu.edu.au/ALS2001/papers/Mullan.pdf>
references at least one of them <checks references> no, both of them,
and is pretty much the same style of article wrt degree of academic
wibble, etc.
> > (P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
> > the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
> > Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
> > "good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
>
> Er, thanks from the people who provided the uninteresting answers.
It was appreciated (not that any of them were uninteresting, just not
amusing).
For my report, I concentrated on the European results, arranging
countries in a grid according to their approximate location in Europe
(northern Europe in the first row, western Europe in the first column,
and so on). Then for many of the questions, I produced grids showing
how much the response from each country displays a particular value,
by shading each cell a darker or lighter shade according to whether
the response from the corresponding country shows more or less of the
value.
For example, for the "A Well-Behaved Child Is ..." question, I had a
grid showing which responses emphasise respect, politeness, etc the
most; a grid showing which responses refer to the concept of limits
and boundaries that good behaviour remains within; a grid showing
which responses refer to a child's ability to distinguish between
situations where different behaviour is appropriate; and a grid
showing which responses refer to (the absence of) demands,
disruptions, and so on.
The reason I say the results aren't interesting is that most of the
distributions looked totally random, and the apparent patterns that
*did* arise are probably mostly due to chance, anyway.
> [1] No matter how you dislike your country, when you expatriate it
> suddenly becomes the cradle of civilisation...
My personal definition of patriotism is basically the belief that your
country is worth putting some effort into making it better. Or to put
it another slant on it, it means being motivated to build upon the good
things in your country by the recognition that there *are* some good
things in your country to *be* built on.
I have a packet of Swiss Cheese in my fridge that says, "Proudly made
and owned in Australia". This amuses me. :-)
Adrian.
Sylvain Chambon
flesh_eating_dragon says...
> Sylvain Chambon wrote:
> > Er, thanks from the people who provided the uninteresting answers.
>
> It was appreciated (not that any of them were uninteresting, just not
> amusing).
<snip>
> The reason I say the results aren't interesting is that most of the
> distributions looked totally random, and the apparent patterns that
> *did* arise are probably mostly due to chance, anyway.
Mm, either the sample wasn't statistically representative, or the
questions didn't bear on the things that differentiate the various
European populations.
Or we're more alike than we'd like to admit :-)
> My personal definition of patriotism is basically the belief that your
> country is worth putting some effort into making it better. Or to put
> it another slant on it, it means being motivated to build upon the good
> things in your country by the recognition that there *are* some good
> things in your country to *be* built on.
<shrug>
I'm not patriotic by any definition, I guess. There's good and bad
everywhere, of course, including around those parts ;-)
...
I want to apologise for having snapped at you in the previous two posts.
I guess I'm in a bad mood these days... I need my holidays![1] Anyway,
there wasn't anything you said that deserved such brisk reactions.
Sylvain.
[1] Next Friday... It'll be my first real holidays since October 2001.
Flesh-eating dragon
> > > Er, thanks from the people who provided the uninteresting answers.
> >
> > It was appreciated (not that any of them were uninteresting, just not
> > amusing).
>
> <snip>
Beth's answers were amusing because the "true friend" definition and
the "good citizen" definition were mutually exclusive - you can be one
or the other but not both. I also hope that the former was not based
on her personal experience...
> > The reason I say the results aren't interesting is that most of the
> > distributions looked totally random, and the apparent patterns that
> > *did* arise are probably mostly due to chance, anyway.
>
> Mm, either the sample wasn't statistically representative, or the
> questions didn't bear on the things that differentiate the various
> European populations.
For the most part, only one response from each country, is the problem.
There were some apparent patterns within Europe, but any or all of
them could be coincidental. The four values put forward for a good
neighbour were: (a) quietness and consideration, (b) helpfulness,
(c) friendliness and communication, (d) respect for privacy. There was
a tendency for helpfulness to be more valued in the west and privacy
in the east. For the true friend, countries from the west of Europe
almost all produced definitions that emphasised the availability of a
true friend (always there for me, sort of thing), whereas a greater
variety of values (e.g. trustworthiness) was emphasised to the east.
For the good policeman, pretty much everyone interpreted 'good' to
mean 'moral' (as opposed to 'good at'), but a good policeman in the
north of Europe was primarily someone who follows the spirit rather
than the letter of the law, whilst a good policeman in the south of
Europe was primarily someone who shows respect and treats prisoners
and suspects as human beings. There were a few other possible patterns
that came up, but the ones I've just quoted are as interesting as any.
Some samples of my own answers:
- A true friend is one who enjoys my company, shows interest in my
thoughts and feelings, helps me to feel comfortable about thinking
aloud and being myself, and accepts both my strengths and my flaws.
- A good citizen is one whose behaviour is conductive to maintaining
order and equality in society, who avoids causing inconvenience and
trespassing on other people's rights, and is helpful and considerate,
not defensive and selfish.
- A good job is one that is a good match to the skills, interests and
ambitions of the individual, results in a lasting sense of
satisfaction and motivation, and supports the lifestyle that the
individual requires.
> I want to apologise for having snapped at you in the previous two posts.
> I guess I'm in a bad mood these days... I need my holidays![1] Anyway,
> there wasn't anything you said that deserved such brisk reactions.
The upside of not being able to see facial expressions and tones of
voice on Usenet is that I couldn't tell that you had.
Adrian.
Beth Winter
>
> (P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
> the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
> Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
> "good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
Oh, what *were* my answers to those? I can't recall right now. I think
the friend one was "one that'll help you move a body" - just because
that saying was what came to mind ^_^
--
Beth Winter
The Discworld Compendium <http://www.extenuation.net/disc/>
"To absent friends, lost loves, old gods and the season of mists."
-- Neil Gaiman
Flesh-eating dragon
> > (P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
> > the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
> > Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
> > "good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
>
> Oh, what *were* my answers to those? I can't recall right now. I think
> the friend one was "one that'll help you move a body" - just because
> that saying was what came to mind ^_^
Ah, it's a translation of a Polish saying, is it?
Your answer for the Good Citizen was, in part, "one who doesn't
tolerate other people breaking the law around them".
Putting the two together is *very* revealing! :-) :-)
Adrian.
Beth Winter
>
> Beth Winter wrote, quoting myself:
>
> > > (P.S. About that survey I did a few weeks back - I didn't get much in
> > > the way of interesting results, but the prize for Most Entertaining
> > > Answers To The Questionnaire goes to Beth (in particular for her
> > > "good friend" and "good citizen" answers)...
> >
> > Oh, what *were* my answers to those? I can't recall right now. I think
> > the friend one was "one that'll help you move a body" - just because
> > that saying was what came to mind ^_^
>
> Ah, it's a translation of a Polish saying, is it?
No, an English one from my sig collection. "A friend is someone who'll
help you move. A good friend is someone who'll help you move a body."
> Your answer for the Good Citizen was, in part, "one who doesn't
> tolerate other people breaking the law around them".
>
> Putting the two together is *very* revealing! :-) :-)
Oops.
Alec Cawley
> Sylvain Chambon wrote, quoting myself:
>
>> > > Er, thanks from the people who provided the uninteresting answers.
>> >
>> > It was appreciated (not that any of them were uninteresting, just not
>> > amusing).
>>
>> <snip>
>
> Beth's answers were amusing because the "true friend" definition and
> the "good citizen" definition were mutually exclusive - you can be one
> or the other but not both. I also hope that the former was not based
> on her personal experience...
Not if the friend/citizen is an undertaker. Restricts things for the rest of
us
--
@lec ©awley
Knig fo teh tyops
Graycat
(flesh_eating_dragon) wrote:
>The reason I say the results aren't interesting is that most of the
>distributions looked totally random, and the apparent patterns that
>*did* arise are probably mostly due to chance, anyway.
Would it be possible to make it available to us? Possibly your data
wasn't large enough, ie if I was the only swede, it mightn't e
representative etc
Flesh-eating dragon
> >The reason I say the results aren't interesting is that most of the
> >distributions looked totally random, and the apparent patterns that
> >*did* arise are probably mostly due to chance, anyway.
>
> Would it be possible to make it available to us? Possibly your data
> wasn't large enough, ie if I was the only swede, it mightn't e
> representative etc
Yes, I decided on the assignment without knowing how many responses
I'd get, or how widely they'd be distributed. It became apparent after
a few days that I was only going to get one person per country in most
cases, so I accepted this as inevitable.
What I have with me is a copy of the printed document. I can certainly
quote from it, but I'm not planning to put a copy of the whole thing
on the web or anything like that. If a few individuals have a
particular desire to read the thing ... then I /suppose/ I can email them a
copy at a later date.
Adrian.