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Terry Pratchett

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Jul 5, 1992, 4:02:13 PM7/5/92
to tprat...@cix.compulink.co.uk
If this works, it's because dwindera gave me painstaking intructions ('place
fingers on keyboard...KEYBOARD...it's that oblong thing...) and here I am,
maybe. Couple of points (I've been reading a few previous messages). My
33mhz 486 is no longer a goshwow machine, Dell having done their usual trick
of waiting until I bought it before dropping the price hugely. I keep
vaguely wondering what Macs are like, but the ones I've seen spend too much
time being friendly....Bravd and the Weasel were indeed takeoffs of Leiber
characters -- there was a lot of that sort of thing in TCOM. But I didn't --
at least conciously, I suppose I must say -- create Ankh-Morpork as a takeoff
of Lankhmar. Originally it was just Morpork, then Ankh just sounded
nice...hmm...I don't think those are too bad as inconsistencies over 13
books, especially since I could argue about one or two....I'm not happy about
the US covers, but they sell better with those than with Josh's, according to
Roc; peronsally, I think most of them are very poor and usually bear the
merest relationship to the text. Um. Can't remember any more. Farewell! I
must be going! (Hooray for Captain Spaulding....) Terry

>>>MATRIX version 1.19c

John Switzer

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Jul 5, 1992, 5:59:35 PM7/5/92
to
In article <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk> tprat...@cix.compulink.co.uk
writes:

>If this works, it's because dwindera gave me painstaking intructions ('place
>fingers on keyboard...KEYBOARD...it's that oblong thing...) and here I am,
>maybe.

<<comments deleted>>


>I'm not happy about
>the US covers, but they sell better with those than with Josh's, according to
>Roc; peronsally, I think most of them are very poor and usually bear the
>merest relationship to the text. Um. Can't remember any more. Farewell! I
>must be going! (Hooray for Captain Spaulding....) Terry

I sort of like them - one of my joys when getting a new one (such as Reaper
Man - just picked it up!) is picking out who the characters are as I read
the book. Believe me, these covers could be a lot worse - a quick glance
at the SF racks in a B Dalton easily convinces me of this.

--
John Switzer | "They take you for a ride, run out of gas
| Most of the time they're a pain
74076...@Compuserve.com | In the yeah, yeah."
j...@netcom.com | The Forester Sisters - "Men"

Leo Breebaart

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Jul 6, 1992, 4:02:59 AM7/6/92
to
Wow. Kinda unsettling to dash off a quick note to alt.fan.pratchett, and
then return after the weekend to find that Himself has read it and seen
fit to comment on it...

Of course, Terry and I are old, old friends, seeing how he signed my copy of
"Guards! Guards!" at the WorldCon in The Hague, as I'm sure he vividly
remembers. Ahem.

Anyway:

tprat...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Terry Pratchett) writes:

> I keep vaguely wondering what Macs are like, but the ones I've seen spend
> too much time being friendly...

True up until a few years ago, but not anymore, I think. The faster ones
still don't come cheap though...

> Bravd and the Weasel were indeed takeoffs of Leiber characters

Phew, glad that at least I got that right.

> But I didn't -- at least conciously, I suppose I must say -- create
> Ankh-Morpork as a takeoff of Lankhmar. Originally it was just Morpork,
> then Ankh just sounded nice...hmm...

Thanks for setting me straight. I really would have *sworn* it was a
conscious pun. Makes me wonder if there are many other places in your
books where us readers all think you are making devastatingly funny,
obscure in-jokes, when in fact you aren't at all...

--
Leo Breebaart (leo @ ph.tn.tudelft.nl)

mwl...@vela.acs.oakland.edu

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Jul 6, 1992, 9:09:40 AM7/6/92
to
In article <204lg=p....@netcom.com> j...@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:
>In article <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk> tprat...@cix.compulink.co.uk
>writes:
>>I'm not happy about
>>the US covers, but they sell better with those than with Josh's, according to
>>Roc; peronsally, I think most of them are very poor and usually bear the
>>merest relationship to the text. Um. Can't remember any more. Farewell! I
>>must be going! (Hooray for Captain Spaulding....) Terry
>
>I sort of like them - one of my joys when getting a new one (such as Reaper
>Man - just picked it up!) is picking out who the characters are as I read
>the book. Believe me, these covers could be a lot worse - a quick glance
>at the SF racks in a B Dalton easily convinces me of this.
>
As far as selling better goes, I suspect that the reason they sell better in
the US is because we've got ten times as many people to buy them over here.
Then again, perhaps it's simply because we've got a garish and disjointed
culture.

I'd also like to take this chance to say "Gee, wow, Mr. Pratchett himself
is on the net! Ooh, aah, can you sign my forehead..."

--
Michael Lucas mwl...@vela.acs.oakland.edu
Most auto accidents involve people with driver's licenses, so I tore mine up.

Peter da Silva

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Jul 6, 1992, 8:27:27 AM7/6/92
to
>Couple of points (I've been reading a few previous messages). My
>33mhz 486 is no longer a goshwow machine, Dell having done their usual trick
>of waiting until I bought it before dropping the price hugely.

That's a basic rule of computer purchasing. You even described it in some
detail in "Good Omens", but didn't realise it applies to everyone: whenever
you actually buy a new computer it's obsolete within the month.
--
`-_-'
Have you hugged your wolf today? 'U`

Peter da Silva, Taronga Park BBS, Houston, TX +1 713 568 0480/1032

Rich Holmes

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Jul 6, 1992, 10:35:07 AM7/6/92
to
Uh oh. If he's reading a.f.p, when's he gonna have time to *write*??

ObAngst: Probably the first message by me he'll ever read is one that
kinda sorta knocks "Reaper Man." And me a morris dancer too. Oh well.

--
- Rich Holmes - - - - - - - - - - - - - rsho...@mailbox.syr.edu -
WARNING: This .sig has been cruelly tested on animals.

Lindsay F. Marshall

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Jul 9, 1992, 4:21:27 AM7/9/92
to
pe...@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>That's a basic rule of computer purchasing. You even described it in some
>detail in "Good Omens", but didn't realise it applies to everyone: whenever
>you actually buy a new computer it's obsolete within the month.

A month? It becomes obsolete at the same instance as the ink of your
signature on the payment becomes dry.....

L.
MAIL : Lindsay....@newcastle.ac.uk
POST : Computing Laboratory, The University, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU
VOICE: +44-91-222-8267
FAX : +44-91-222-8572

Moses

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May 30, 2011, 12:49:43 AM5/30/11
to tprat...@cix.compulink.co.uk
It works :-)

Larry Moore

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May 30, 2011, 6:18:24 AM5/30/11
to
On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
> It works :-)
>

Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)

--
E. O. Wilson noted, “As a species we are endowed with
Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and
near-godlike technological capacity.”

Nigel Stapley

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May 30, 2011, 7:52:33 AM5/30/11
to
Larry Moore wrote:
> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>> It works :-)
>>
>
> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)
>

But did you see the date on the post that Moses was replying to?

--
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

Larry Moore

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May 30, 2011, 1:16:02 PM5/30/11
to
On 30/5/11 7:52 AM, Nigel Stapley wrote:
> Larry Moore wrote:
>> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>>> It works :-)
>>>
>>
>> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)
>>
>
> But did you see the date on the post that Moses was replying to?
>

From the 90s. The Internet is amazing - amnesia when it's inconvenient
and otherwise, immortality (and the chance to be Hansardized unexpectedly.)

GaryN

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May 30, 2011, 4:34:17 PM5/30/11
to
Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:SKOdnU29JL9TTX7Q...@wightman.ca:

> On 30/5/11 7:52 AM, Nigel Stapley wrote:
>> Larry Moore wrote:
>>> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>>>> It works :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)
>>>
>>
>> But did you see the date on the post that Moses was replying to?
>>
>
> From the 90s. The Internet is amazing - amnesia when it's inconvenient
> and otherwise, immortality (and the chance to be Hansardized
> unexpectedly.)
>

But I've got the t-shirt - "I'm Immortal, So Far" therefore all the time I
can wear the t-shirt I'm Immortal. Stands to reason. Of course if I'm
buried in it there may be some cause for disagreement.

gary

--
"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money. The shit has hit the fan"

Warren Zevon

Larry Moore

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May 30, 2011, 4:50:46 PM5/30/11
to

You would have joined the ages?

Lionel

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May 30, 2011, 6:28:07 PM5/30/11
to
On Mon, 30 May 2011 06:18:24 -0400, Larry Moore wrote:

> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>> It works :-)
>>
>>
> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)

Most recently, I was visited by a neighbour's cat, & his unfeasibly large
testicles. It turned out that his interest was sparked by my possession
of a large tuna can that still had some scraps left in it.

--
W
. | , w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

GaryN

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May 30, 2011, 8:13:52 PM5/30/11
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Lionel <imag...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:is15lm$6o9$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org:

> On Mon, 30 May 2011 06:18:24 -0400, Larry Moore wrote:
>
>> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>>> It works :-)
>>>
>>>
>> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)
>
> Most recently, I was visited by a neighbour's cat, & his unfeasibly
> large testicles. It turned out that his interest was sparked by my
> possession of a large tuna can that still had some scraps left in it.
>

Do you have to have unfeasibly large testicles to be interested in tuna?
Mine are of average size, as with other bits, in so far as I know. Not had
any complaints in the last 28 years and there's been plenty of
opportunity..:-)

I like tuna, although I prefer it with mayonnaise and lettuce (from the
allotment), on wholemeal bread, preferably the SO's home made.

I'd go catch my own tuna as well but we're a bit short on them in Oxford.
The fish have got hacked off with all the University rowing teams upsetting
the river and have fucked off to more pleasant climes. Even the pike, who
will usually bite anything, have buggered off.

I worry about the Kingfishers and Cormorants. If all the fish have left
what are our feathery friends to eat?

Lizzy Taylor

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May 31, 2011, 3:41:53 AM5/31/11
to
On 31/05/11 01:13, GaryN wrote:

>
> I'd go catch my own tuna as well but we're a bit short on them in Oxford.
> The fish have got hacked off with all the University rowing teams upsetting
> the river and have fucked off to more pleasant climes. Even the pike, who
> will usually bite anything, have buggered off.
>
> I worry about the Kingfishers and Cormorants. If all the fish have left
> what are our feathery friends to eat?

They will move on to the next easiest prey - students, and there are
plenty of them around Oxford I believe. When the students are out of
season they could make do with tourists.

Lizzy

Kevin Wells

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May 31, 2011, 9:50:41 AM5/31/11
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In message <4de49bc1$0$12166$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk>
Lizzy Taylor <li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:

To make student hunting a sport, you should only use a long bow.


--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Bring me my chariot of fire!

GaryN

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May 31, 2011, 10:20:38 AM5/31/11
to
Kevin Wells <kevin...@talktalk.net> wrote in
news:490508dc...@talktalk.net:

> In message <4de49bc1$0$12166$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk>
> Lizzy Taylor <li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 31/05/11 01:13, GaryN wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'd go catch my own tuna as well but we're a bit short on them in
>>> Oxford. The fish have got hacked off with all the University rowing
>>> teams upsetting the river and have fucked off to more pleasant
>>> climes. Even the pike, who will usually bite anything, have
>>> buggered off.
>>>
>>> I worry about the Kingfishers and Cormorants. If all the fish have
>>> left what are our feathery friends to eat?
>>
>>They will move on to the next easiest prey - students, and there are
>>plenty of them around Oxford I believe. When the students are out of
>>season they could make do with tourists.
>>
>>Lizzy
>
> To make student hunting a sport, you should only use a long bow.
>
>

Nah, just a walking stick. When a student riding a pushbike up the road
or pavement the wrong way approaches you there are two choices.

a: Stumble and 'accidentaly' shoulder charge them off their bike.
b: 'Accidentaly' thrust your walking stick into the spokes of the back
wheel.

I did manage to hit one with a CBR1000 once but that genuinely was her
fault. *Note for cyclists* Do not sail through red lights when someone
riding a 1/2 tonne motorcycle is turning across your path - it hurts, a
lot judging by the agonised screams. OTOH I didn't put the lamppost
there-> or build the wall there<-

Larry Moore

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May 31, 2011, 11:06:59 AM5/31/11
to

I thought black umbrellas were the preferred stealth weapon?

Kevin Wells

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May 31, 2011, 11:09:57 AM5/31/11
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In message <Xns9EF69C14B535Bg...@212.23.3.97>
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:

>
>I did manage to hit one with a CBR1000 once but that genuinely was her
>fault. *Note for cyclists* Do not sail through red lights when someone
>riding a 1/2 tonne motorcycle is turning across your path - it hurts, a
>lot judging by the agonised screams. OTOH I didn't put the lamppost
>there-> or build the wall there<-
>

I nearly had one in Brighton with a NTV650 the pillock walked across the
road without looking, but I was not quick enough.

Useless Fact 02 In the artic the sun sometimes appears to be square.

Paul Jamison

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May 31, 2011, 1:10:53 PM5/31/11
to

"Larry Moore" <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4pudnbgk0bKWmXjQ...@wightman.ca...
A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the pellet with
the poison[1][2].

[1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.

[2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]

[3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]

[4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]

[5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?

Paul


GaryN

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May 31, 2011, 2:40:12 PM5/31/11
to
"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in
news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me:

It was a matt black CBR1000 if that's any help. I don't think that
"stealth" would be a suitable appelation.

> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the pellet
> with the poison[1][2].

I prefer a bush hat myself - admittedly the razor blades sewn into the
brim at the front are my own addition. Bit like the sharpened pennies
sewn into the brims of their caps by the Shamlegger Street Boys (c.f.
Thud). Never saw the point of sharpening pennies myself when some other
bugger is making razor blades.

>
> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.

No offence but do remember that some *really* don't know what we lived
through.. Thankyou for reminding me that I'm nearly 50:-)



> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]

The vestal with the pustule?



> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]

The flogging with the drugging?



> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]

The choice with the palaise?



> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>
> Paul
>
>
>

Nothing wrong with being in "One of those moods" I think most of us get
them occasionally. Just not many are able to admit it. Years ago there
was a bloody great war and those of us who had family involved caught
some of the backlash. We all try to do our best in a different society.

Call it throwback, call it whatever you like. Call it *LIFE*

John S. Wilkins

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May 31, 2011, 6:59:55 PM5/31/11
to
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:

It's even worse when you use^H ride a Suzuki Bandit 1200GSF to hit a
student on a bike. Mine, I wasn't happy either - scratched my tank, he
did. But the Suzie was around 250kg dry. How much shit did you have on
your CBR exactly?
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre

Larry Moore

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May 31, 2011, 7:49:12 PM5/31/11
to

A little. I'm sure there were stranger incidents than <
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko > ,
but I nominate it for the Cold War Bonehead Award with the Bay of Pigs
fiasco as
close runner-up (though some of the CIA assassination attempts
on Fidel Castro deserve honourable mention.)

[2] ricin AIR.

Christopher Henrich

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May 31, 2011, 10:19:35 PM5/31/11
to
In article <7OmdnaQMGOzl43jQ...@wightman.ca>,
Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote:

To which L's murderers would reply, "You can callingk us bonehead,
tovarich, but he's still dead."


> fiasco as
> close runner-up (though some of the CIA assassination attempts
> on Fidel Castro deserve honourable mention.)
>
> [2] ricin AIR.

--
Christopher J. Henrich
chen...@monmouth.com
http://www.mathinteract.com
"A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver." -- Boon

Lionel

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Jun 1, 2011, 1:00:54 AM6/1/11
to
On Tue, 31 May 2011 00:13:52 +0000, GaryN wrote:

> Lionel <imag...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:is15lm$6o9$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org:
>
>> On Mon, 30 May 2011 06:18:24 -0400, Larry Moore wrote:
>>
>>> On 30/5/11 12:49 AM, Moses wrote:
>>>> It works :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Welcome. Have some chocolate and mind the cat (he's boot-shy.)
>>
>> Most recently, I was visited by a neighbour's cat, & his unfeasibly
>> large testicles. It turned out that his interest was sparked by my
>> possession of a large tuna can that still had some scraps left in it.
>>
>>
> Do you have to have unfeasibly large testicles to be interested in tuna?
> Mine are of average size, as with other bits, in so far as I know. Not
> had any complaints in the last 28 years and there's been plenty of
> opportunity..:-)

Mine also of average size, & I'm quite fond of tuna - hence the presence
of an (almost) empty tin in the bin when said moggy was visiting. IME,
women are even less concerned about testicle size than they are about
penis size. IMO, as long as everything works okay, they're not fussed
about the actual measurements.

> I like tuna, although I prefer it with mayonnaise and lettuce (from the
> allotment), on wholemeal bread, preferably the SO's home made.

That'd be fine with me too. My usual thing is seasoned tuna on toasted
rye bread, or sometimes a homemade marinara sauce on pasta.

> I'd go catch my own tuna as well but we're a bit short on them in
> Oxford. The fish have got hacked off with all the University rowing
> teams upsetting the river and have fucked off to more pleasant climes.
> Even the pike, who will usually bite anything, have buggered off.

I thought tuna were strictly a saltwater fish?

> I worry about the Kingfishers and Cormorants. If all the fish have left
> what are our feathery friends to eat?

Chips? Slow students?

Larry Moore

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Jun 1, 2011, 6:48:02 AM6/1/11
to

It was regarded by even the Russians as rather nekulturny .

>> fiasco as
>> close runner-up (though some of the CIA assassination attempts
>> on Fidel Castro deserve honourable mention.)
>>
>> [2] ricin AIR.
>


--

GaryN

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Jun 1, 2011, 7:35:49 AM6/1/11
to
jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote in news:1k25s5d.1nt9en8pvz0wcN%
jo...@wilkins.id.au:

<snip>

> It's even worse when you use^H ride a Suzuki Bandit 1200GSF to hit a
> student on a bike. Mine, I wasn't happy either - scratched my tank, he
> did. But the Suzie was around 250kg dry. How much shit did you have on
> your CBR exactly?

Just me. Mine was one of the old FH models, built before aluminium was
discovered (well 1987 actually). Most of the superfluous junk (side
fairings, oil pressure gauge, helmet holder, etc) had been stripped off
over the years but they are still heavy brutes. Do come in at a shade
under 500kilos wet weight. Takes 2 people to pick one up off your broken
leg - I know that from experience:-(

John S. Wilkins

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Jun 1, 2011, 8:07:24 AM6/1/11
to
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:

Friend had a Goldwing land on his arm, and he was trapped out of sight
from the road for six hours. He lost the arm.

Lesley Weston

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Jun 1, 2011, 10:36:45 AM6/1/11
to
On 11-05-31 6:50 AM, Kevin Wells wrote:
> In message<4de49bc1$0$12166$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk>
> Lizzy Taylor<li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 31/05/11 01:13, GaryN wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'd go catch my own tuna as well but we're a bit short on them in Oxford.
>>> The fish have got hacked off with all the University rowing teams upsetting
>>> the river and have fucked off to more pleasant climes. Even the pike, who
>>> will usually bite anything, have buggered off.
>>>
>>> I worry about the Kingfishers and Cormorants. If all the fish have left
>>> what are our feathery friends to eat?
>>
>> They will move on to the next easiest prey - students, and there are
>> plenty of them around Oxford I believe. When the students are out of
>> season they could make do with tourists.
>>
>> Lizzy
>
> To make student hunting a sport, you should only use a long bow.
>
>
And anyway, it sounds more like feeding crows than feeding kingfishers.

Lesley.

--
This address is real, but to reach me use leswes att shaw dott ca

GaryN

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Jun 1, 2011, 1:30:28 PM6/1/11
to
jo...@wilkins.id.au (John S. Wilkins) wrote in
news:1k27ekw.1j82aa17jg9pcN%jo...@wilkins.id.au:

<snip>

> Friend had a Goldwing land on his arm, and he was trapped out of sight
> from the road for six hours. He lost the arm.

Still not sure if I wouldn't have rather lost the leg completely. Still
goes into uncontrollable spasms due to all the messed up nerves sending
false signals. Some specialists suspect that may be the reason for the
epileptic type fits I now suffer - brain trying to work out what the
incoherent signals mean=overload="Oh fuck *another hospital ceiling*, how
many drip lines am I plugged into this time? And how many days have I been
unconscious?"

So far I've managed a 6 day period unconscious, with 4 and 3 running close
behind. I even managed (hint of pride here) to have a fit in the court
that was trying me for breaking my bail conditions when I had a fit at the
SO's place and had to stay. Nothing more convincing than having the
defendant go into convulsions and the court having to call an ambulance.

That charge was dismissed.

Paul Jamison

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Jun 1, 2011, 4:27:05 PM6/1/11
to

"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me...

>
>>
> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the pellet with
> the poison[1][2].
>
> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.
>
> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]
>
> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]
>
> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]
>
> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>
>
I'm a bit surprised that the movie reference went unnoticed.

Paul


jester

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Jun 2, 2011, 6:37:41 AM6/2/11
to

Not unnoticed, just uncommented, due to it being that obvious.
However, I'm certainly not mentioning the Gateaux from the Chateau,
because things would just get silly.

--
Andy Brown
"Always try to do things in chronological order; it's less confusing
that way."

Daibhid Ceanaideach

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Jun 2, 2011, 8:27:17 AM6/2/11
to
On 02 Jun 2011, jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:27:05 -0500, Paul Jamison
> <pjam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>>
>>> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the
>>> pellet with the poison[1][2].
>>>
>>> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.
>>>
>>> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]
>>>
>>> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]
>>>
>>> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]
>>>
>>> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>>>
>>>
>>I'm a bit surprised that the movie reference went unnoticed.
>
> Not unnoticed, just uncommented, due to it being that obvious.
> However, I'm certainly not mentioning the Gateaux from the Chateau,
> because things would just get silly.

Quite right too. Or the pill by the till.

--
Dave
It's all about the triumph of intellect and romance
over brute force and cynicism.

Lesley Weston

unread,
Jun 2, 2011, 9:39:33 AM6/2/11
to

Sorry! I couldn't think of anything to say about Danny Kaye funnier than
what you had already said, so I left it.

Paul Jamison

unread,
Jun 2, 2011, 11:24:47 AM6/2/11
to

"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9EF888E72940Fda...@130.133.4.11...
Oh, I like those.


GaryN

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Jun 2, 2011, 12:19:22 PM6/2/11
to
"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in news:is89vp$koh$1@dont-
email.me:

You forgot to light the candle with the handle.

jester

unread,
Jun 2, 2011, 12:34:58 PM6/2/11
to
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:24:47 -0500, Paul Jamison

<pjam...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9EF888E72940Fda...@130.133.4.11...
>> On 02 Jun 2011, jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:27:05 -0500, Paul Jamison
>>> <pjam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the
>>>>> pellet with the poison[1][2].
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.
>>>>>
>>>>> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]
>>>>>
>>>>> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]
>>>>>
>>>>> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]
>>>>>
>>>>> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I'm a bit surprised that the movie reference went unnoticed.
>>>
>>> Not unnoticed, just uncommented, due to it being that obvious.
>>> However, I'm certainly not mentioning the Gateaux from the Chateau,
>>> because things would just get silly.
>>
>> Quite right too. Or the pill by the till.
>>
>Oh, I like those.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo!_%28series_2%29#Christmas_Special:_The_Gateau_from_the_Chateau>

and scroll down a bit to the dialogue excerpt...

--
Andy Brown
Goto, n.:
A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers
to complain about unstructured programmers. -- Ray Simard

Paul Jamison

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Jun 2, 2011, 1:59:33 PM6/2/11
to

"jester" <use...@jester.nu> wrote in message
news:slrniufeti...@angel.jester.nu...

> On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:24:47 -0500, Paul Jamison
> <pjam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9EF888E72940Fda...@130.133.4.11...
>>> On 02 Jun 2011, jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:27:05 -0500, Paul Jamison
>>>> <pjam...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the
>>>>>> pellet with the poison[1][2].
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>I'm a bit surprised that the movie reference went unnoticed.
>>>>
>>>> Not unnoticed, just uncommented, due to it being that obvious.
>>>> However, I'm certainly not mentioning the Gateaux from the Chateau,
>>>> because things would just get silly.
>>>
>>> Quite right too. Or the pill by the till.
>>>
>>Oh, I like those.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo!_%28series_2%29#Christmas_Special:_The_Gateau_from_the_Chateau>
>
> and scroll down a bit to the dialogue excerpt...
>
I think my local PBS station showed episodes of "'Allo, 'Allo!" at one time.
I truly regret missing it.


Kevin Wells

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Jun 2, 2011, 6:28:47 PM6/2/11
to
In message <slrniufeti...@angel.jester.nu>
jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:

Listen very carefully I will only type this once, what about the Fallen
Madonna with the big boobies:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fallen_Madonna>
>

British by birth English by grace of God.

Larry Moore

unread,
Jun 2, 2011, 8:56:12 PM6/2/11
to

Hardly Rubenesque enough to be fallen; more Caucasian than authentic
Ashkenazi in skin tone, and having pleasant but unexceptional breasts -
obviously the title is an in-joke?

Lionel

unread,
Jun 2, 2011, 11:32:42 PM6/2/11
to

Speaking only for myself, it's such a standard STR that I didn't think it
was worth mentioning.

Robert Carnegie

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 8:04:30 AM6/3/11
to
On Jun 3, 1:56 am, Larry Moore <shirleyallan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/6/11 6:28 PM, Kevin Wells wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In message <slrniufeti.rse.use...@angel.jester.nu>

> >           jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:
>
> >> On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:24:47 -0500, Paul Jamison
> >> <pjamis...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>> "Daibhid Ceanaideach" <daibhidchened...@aol.com> wrote in message

> >>>news:Xns9EF888E72940Fda...@130.133.4.11...
> >>>> On 02 Jun 2011, jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 15:27:05 -0500, Paul Jamison
> >>>>> <pjamis...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> "Paul Jamison" <pjamis...@cox.net> wrote in message

> >>>>>>news:is37es$od0$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >>>>>>> A black umbrella can be lethal, even if it doesn't involve the
> >>>>>>> pellet with the poison[1][2].
>
> >>>>>>> [1] Cold War espionage could be strange at times.
>
> >>>>>>> [2] Or the vessel with the pestle. [3]
>
> >>>>>>> [3] Or the flagon with the dragon. [4]
>
> >>>>>>> [4] Or the chalice with the palace [5]
>
> >>>>>>> [5] Hey, I'm in one of *those* moods, okay!?
>
> >>>>>> I'm a bit surprised that the movie reference went unnoticed.
>
> >>>>> Not unnoticed, just uncommented, due to it being that obvious.
> >>>>> However, I'm certainly not mentioning the Gateaux from the Chateau,
> >>>>> because things would just get silly.
>
> >>>> Quite right too. Or the pill by the till.
>
> >>> Oh, I like those.
>
> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo!_%28series_2%29#Christma...>

>
> >> and scroll down a bit to the dialogue excerpt...
>
> > Listen very carefully I will only type this once, what about the Fallen
> > Madonna with the big boobies:
>
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fallen_Madonna>
>
> Hardly Rubenesque enough to be fallen; more Caucasian than authentic
> Ashkenazi in skin tone, and having pleasant but unexceptional breasts -
> obviously the title is an in-joke?

I think Wikipedia is wrong (gasp!) and in the story, the "official"
title of the painting, give or take differences of language (which is
a topic in itself in the show), was "The Reclining Madonna, by Van
Clomp", but who was he kidding. In real art, I gather that a topless
or nude lady is more usually called "Venus" in the title, so this is
probably a secret naughty picture of the type that great artists were
so often paid to produce, and I propose that people in the story got
excited about the boobies when referring to the picture not because
they were exceptional, but because they are on show at all - and
because it was called the Madonna - and maybe from when most people
hadn't seen the picture, only heard about it. And, of course, they
follow you round the room. (Are you enjoying that sandwich?)

Of course the Madonna surely /had/ boobies, and this isn't the only
picture to show 'em, or at least one or the other. But, things being
what they were, she may have been a bit under-endowed, until she got
magnificated.

GaryN

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 9:54:24 AM6/3/11
to
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
news:d61bd934-8002-4a04...@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

<snip>

> Of course the Madonna surely /had/ boobies, and this isn't the only
> picture to show 'em, or at least one or the other. But, things being
> what they were, she may have been a bit under-endowed, until she got
> magnificated.
>

I always wondered about the "Fallen Madonna" bit. OK so she's a virgin
when she sprogs JC, not sure how that works either - surely sprogging
breaks the hymen which is usually the benchmark for 'virgin'?

But JC later had brothers and sisters. How can you be a fallen Madonna if
you've done your bit and then got on with life? "OK so I've borne the son
of God, now I'm going to do my own thing" seems reasonable to me.

How can she possibly fall when she never asked to be elevated in the first
place?

Larry Moore

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Jun 3, 2011, 10:13:42 AM6/3/11
to
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo!_%28series_2%29#Christma....>

>>
>>>> and scroll down a bit to the dialogue excerpt...
>>
>>> Listen very carefully I will only type this once, what about the Fallen
>>> Madonna with the big boobies:
>>
>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fallen_Madonna>
>>
>> Hardly Rubenesque enough to be fallen; more Caucasian than authentic
>> Ashkenazi in skin tone, and having pleasant but unexceptional breasts -
>> obviously the title is an in-joke?
>
> I think Wikipedia is wrong (gasp!) and in the story, the "official"
> title of the painting, give or take differences of language (which is
> a topic in itself in the show), was "The Reclining Madonna, by Van
> Clomp", but who was he kidding.

This is the first I'd heard of 'allo 'allo and wonder if it'd be
funny for a non-English person?

Lesley Weston

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 11:34:18 AM6/3/11
to
They don't seem particularly big, do they? We tried the show, but found
that it just wasn't funny.

Lesley

Robert Carnegie

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 12:00:20 PM6/3/11
to

Depends. It's a bit like farce, with the central figure, cafe owner
Rene Artois, tolerating the German occupying army as customers (both
downstairs in the cafe and upstairs with the waitresses, yes really)
in return for black-market deals on scarce luxury food and fuel
supplies, presumably from the army. Then the Resistance press him
into converting latent antipathy towards the occupier into genuine
subversive activity, with quite a risk of being killed - in fact he is
soon the object of a faked Nazi firing squad and spends the rest of
the series publicly posing as his fictitious twin brother. Then
there's the business with the looted painting and other such goodies,
the clownish Gestapo agents, quite a lot of lacy underwear, a gay tank
captain's unrequited love for Rene, who, what with courting his dead
twin brother's (i.e. his) wife, both waitresses and the rival /
Communist/ Resistance leader (female), simply wouldn't have time,
there's a squad of shambolic Italians, a bed-ridden mother-in-law, a
dodgy old forger, a sly old undertaker, and a great deal of verbal
amusement, the summit of which is Crabtree the British agent whose
Fronch is abiminable ("Good moaning").

Oh, and two British airmen who theoretically are being smuggled out of
France but rarely get more than fifty yards from the cafe, in the
entire series, and don't understand French - fortunately the
Resistance leader (non-Communist) is bilingual. She plays this
beautifully.

It's intended as parody of a genre of WWII Resistance drama in
general, and possibly rather particularly the BBC's own previous show
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Army_%28TV_series%29> - oh, "with
a few cast members appearing in both series" - I don't know if I knew
that.

Larry Moore

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Jun 3, 2011, 12:03:28 PM6/3/11
to

My first wife insisted that breasts that could not pass the 'pencil
test', could not be called 'large breasts'.

> We tried the show, but found that it just wasn't funny.
>
> Lesley
>

I'll take that as advisement, thanks.

Robert Carnegie

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 12:04:36 PM6/3/11
to
On Jun 3, 2:54 pm, GaryN <g...@scaryriders.com> wrote:

> Robert Carnegie <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote innews:d61bd934-8002-4a04...@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Of course the Madonna surely /had/ boobies, and this isn't the only
> > picture to show 'em, or at least one or the other.  But, things being
> > what they were, she may have been a bit under-endowed, until she got
> > magnificated.
>
> I always wondered about the "Fallen Madonna" bit.  OK so she's a virgin
> when she sprogs JC, not sure how that works either - surely sprogging
> breaks the hymen which is usually the benchmark for 'virgin'?
>
> But JC later had brothers and sisters.  How can you be a fallen Madonna if
> you've done your bit and then got on with life?  "OK so I've borne the son
> of God, now I'm going to do my own thing"  seems reasonable to me.
>
> How can she possibly fall when she never asked to be elevated in the first
> place?

Maybe it means she fell over backwards. Balance can be a bit of a
challenge in late pregnancy, I gather. One of my sisters went over
pretty hard once in my company, crossing the road.

Of course there isn't much I can tell /you/ about falling over!!

jester

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 12:37:34 PM6/3/11
to
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:13:42 -0400, Larry Moore
<shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 03/6/11 8:04 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 1:56 am, Larry Moore <shirleyallan1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 02/6/11 6:28 PM, Kevin Wells wrote:
>>>> In message <slrniufeti.rse.use...@angel.jester.nu>
>>>> jester <use...@jester.nu> wrote:
<REND>

>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo!_%28series_2%29#Christma....>
>>>
>>>>> and scroll down a bit to the dialogue excerpt...
>>>
>>>> Listen very carefully I will only type this once, what about the Fallen
>>>> Madonna with the big boobies:
>>>
>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fallen_Madonna>
>>>
>>> Hardly Rubenesque enough to be fallen; more Caucasian than authentic
>>> Ashkenazi in skin tone, and having pleasant but unexceptional breasts -
>>> obviously the title is an in-joke?
>>
>> I think Wikipedia is wrong (gasp!) and in the story, the "official"
>> title of the painting, give or take differences of language (which is
>> a topic in itself in the show), was "The Reclining Madonna, by Van
>> Clomp", but who was he kidding.
>
>This is the first I'd heard of 'allo 'allo and wonder if it'd be
>funny for a non-English person?

The BBC managed to sell it to at least 40 countries, including Germany.
Whether this has anything to do with the English airmen being the most
stupid characters on the show, I don't know. :-)

--
Andy Brown
Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation.

Robert Carnegie

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Jun 3, 2011, 3:59:34 PM6/3/11
to
Oh, I forgot to mention Agent Crabtree's permanent cover identity in
Nouvion. "I am disgeesed as poloceman so I am oble to move aboot with
complate frodom."

Brian Howlett

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 4:24:13 PM6/3/11
to

My favourite Crabtree Moment [1] - on hearing gunfire from the café:

"I was pissing by the door, when I heard a shit"...

[1] Because the older I get, the more childish I get...
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today
than on Alzheimer's research. This means that by 2040, there should
be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and
absolutely no recollection of what to do with them...

Robert Carnegie

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 5:30:03 PM6/3/11
to
On Jun 3, 9:24 pm, Brian Howlett <news-spamt...@brianhowlett.me.uk>
wrote:

> On 3 Jun, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>
> > Oh, I forgot to mention Agent Crabtree's permanent cover identity in
> > Nouvion. "I am disgeesed as poloceman so I am oble to move aboot with
> > complate frodom."
>
> My favourite Crabtree Moment [1] - on hearing gunfire from the café:
>
> "I was pissing by the door, when I heard a shit"...
>
> [1] Because the older I get, the more childish I get...

I found another online - the town square gentlemen's lavatory was
accidentally demolished by tank with him in it taking a necessary
break from duties, he emerged from the wreckage remarking "There is
obviously no piss for the wicked."

Lionel

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 7:57:27 PM6/3/11
to
On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:13:42 -0400, Larry Moore wrote:
[...]

> This is the first I'd heard of 'allo 'allo and wonder if it'd be funny
> for a non-English person?

It wasn't all that funny to this native English speaker, but then I
didn't much like Benny Hill, Are You Being Served, or Dad's Army either.

Chris Zakes

unread,
Jun 3, 2011, 8:51:21 PM6/3/11
to
On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 05:04:30 -0700 (PDT), an orbital mind-control
laser caused Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> to write:

(snip)

>I think Wikipedia is wrong (gasp!) and in the story, the "official"
>title of the painting, give or take differences of language (which is
>a topic in itself in the show), was "The Reclining Madonna, by Van
>Clomp", but who was he kidding. In real art, I gather that a topless
>or nude lady is more usually called "Venus" in the title, so this is
>probably a secret naughty picture of the type that great artists were
>so often paid to produce, and I propose that people in the story got
>excited about the boobies when referring to the picture not because
>they were exceptional, but because they are on show at all - and
>because it was called the Madonna - and maybe from when most people
>hadn't seen the picture, only heard about it. And, of course, they
>follow you round the room. (Are you enjoying that sandwich?)
>
>Of course the Madonna surely /had/ boobies, and this isn't the only
>picture to show 'em, or at least one or the other. But, things being
>what they were, she may have been a bit under-endowed, until she got
>magnificated.

If you do a Google Images search for "madonna and child" you'll find
quite a few such pictures. Facial features and breast size seems to
vary with the preference of the artist.

(A friend of mine has suggested that such pictures were the artist's
method of getting his otherwise-modest model to show a bit more skin:
"My lady, your virtue and humility have inspired me; would you be
willing to pose for a 'Madonna and Child' that I have been
commissioned to paint?")

On the other hand, it's much more likely that people in earlier times
were less bothered by bare breasts--at lest when used for feeding
children--than are people of today.

-Chris Zakes
Texas
--

Then something Tookish woke up inside him, and he wished to go and see the
great mountains, and hear the pine trees and the waterfalls, and explore the caves,
and wear a sword instead of a walking-stick.

-"The Hobbit" by J.R.R. Tolkien

Paul Jamison

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Jun 3, 2011, 9:09:27 PM6/3/11
to

"Robert Carnegie" <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:b06ae364-69f7-4598...@b1g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

===================

Oh, I *really* regret missing this!

I'm from the country that gave the world "Hogan's Heroes". I somehow feel
the urge to apologize for that.

Paul


Lesley Weston

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 9:23:15 AM6/4/11
to

Is that passing? I always took that as failing. Most encouraging.

Lesley.

Lesley Weston

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 9:25:48 AM6/4/11
to
On 11-06-03 6:54 AM, GaryN wrote:
> Robert Carnegie<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in
> news:d61bd934-8002-4a04...@y12g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
> <snip>
>> Of course the Madonna surely /had/ boobies, and this isn't the only
>> picture to show 'em, or at least one or the other. But, things being
>> what they were, she may have been a bit under-endowed, until she got
>> magnificated.
>>
>
> I always wondered about the "Fallen Madonna" bit. OK so she's a virgin
> when she sprogs JC, not sure how that works either - surely sprogging
> breaks the hymen which is usually the benchmark for 'virgin'?

Nah, she was a heifer: a young female who was sexually mature but had
not yet been bred.


>
> But JC later had brothers and sisters. How can you be a fallen Madonna if
> you've done your bit and then got on with life? "OK so I've borne the son
> of God, now I'm going to do my own thing" seems reasonable to me.
>
> How can she possibly fall when she never asked to be elevated in the first
> place?

And anyway, she's sitting upright in the picture.

Lesley Weston

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 9:35:52 AM6/4/11
to
On 11-06-03 4:57 PM, Lionel wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:13:42 -0400, Larry Moore wrote:
> [...]
>> This is the first I'd heard of 'allo 'allo and wonder if it'd be funny
>> for a non-English person?
>
> It wasn't all that funny to this native English speaker, but then I
> didn't much like Benny Hill, Are You Being Served, or Dad's Army either.
>
Those three are among my favourites, but I still didn't like 'allo
'allo. Nobody else can say "knickers" to quite the same effect as Benny
Hill. /Are You Being Served/ went downhill once the Mr. Humphries joke
went from "is he or isn't he?" to "he definitely is" and the Mrs.
Slocombe joke went from "with a chequered past and still attractive in a
dim light" to "terrifying old bat". Though the Boy, Mr. Lucas, being
already at least 40 when the series began didn't seem to matter.

Chris Zakes

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 11:21:45 AM6/4/11
to
On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:09:27 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
caused "Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> to write:

(snip)

>
>Oh, I *really* regret missing this!
>
>I'm from the country that gave the world "Hogan's Heroes". I somehow feel
>the urge to apologize for that.
>
>Paul

Hey, it was at least (marginally) better/more plausible that
"Gilligan's Island."

Paul Jamison

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 3:14:45 PM6/4/11
to

"Chris Zakes" <dont...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ajku65bf71b8530v...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 3 Jun 2011 20:09:27 -0500, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused "Paul Jamison" <pjam...@cox.net> to write:
>
> (snip)
>
>>
>>Oh, I *really* regret missing this!
>>
>>I'm from the country that gave the world "Hogan's Heroes". I somehow feel
>>the urge to apologize for that.
>>
>>Paul
>
> Hey, it was at least (marginally) better/more plausible that
> "Gilligan's Island."
>

True. At least "My Mother the Car" didn't become a worldwide phenomenon.


Paul Jamison

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Jun 4, 2011, 3:17:14 PM6/4/11
to

"Lesley Weston" <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:isdcbq$1g5e$1...@mud.stack.nl...
For some peculiar reason our local PBS station continues to rerun and rerun
and rerun AYBS as infinitum, every Saturday evening. Programs come and go on
the PNS station, bu there it still is.

And nobody here broadcasts Benny Hill. Pity.


Larry Moore

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Jun 4, 2011, 4:01:36 PM6/4/11
to

According to her mother's House Rule, young ladies who 'pass' the pencil
test must wear a supporting undergarment - those who don't, were excused.

GaryN

unread,
Jun 4, 2011, 6:07:38 PM6/4/11