[A] for Carpe Jugulum

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Lisa Green

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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Spoiler Space (don't want to get flamed!)
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0 Thats enough I think.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but the stone witch found
at the entrance of the cave where Granny Weatherwax is hiding out,
sounds remarkably similar to the stone "witch" found at the Wookey Hole
caves in Somerset. Not been there for a few years, wonder if the guides
are still doing to whole "A long, long time ago......." bit!! As I
remember it though, the Wookey Hole witch's cat also got turned to
stone. [1]

Lisa

[1] As I remember it, when the guide was showing you the shadow cast by
the stone when you shone a torch on it, you had to squint, turn upside
down and imagine very hard before you saw what they said was there.


Gideon Hallett

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:31:33 +0000, Lisa Green <l...@sanger.ac.uk>
was a jolly decent type and shared with us:

I think you're almost certainly dead on the money; didn't know
whether it had been noted yet, but since Pterry is a
sort-of-local, I'm sure that's where it comes from.

<snip>


>[1] As I remember it, when the guide was showing you the shadow cast by
>the stone when you shone a torch on it, you had to squint, turn upside
>down and imagine very hard before you saw what they said was there.

My thoughts were "...nah, it's a couple of rocks"

Gideon.


--
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| Given a little bit of thrust, most hedgehogs ___\\\\\\____o |
| fly just fine. Landing, however... --===***>>X___\\\\\\^c/ |

Cliff

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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Lisa Green wrote in message <369608B5...@sanger.ac.uk>...

[ Totally unrelated Trivia ]
In Chattanooga, Tennessee, there is a mountain called Lookout Mountain. One
edge of it is called "The Witch" because it looks like a witch's face.
[ /Totally unrelated trivia]


Terry Pratchett

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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In article <369608B5...@sanger.ac.uk>, Lisa Green
<l...@sanger.ac.uk> writes

Bing!

--
Terry Pratchett

Rudewind-Rustling B.F.,B.Am.Ta. D.C.M (Unseen) The Order of Midnight

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:22:01 +0000, Terry Pratchett wispered these
words of wisdom:

Greetings Terry Pratchett

>Bing!

Your microwave is done heating something so it's like molten-lava...:)

--
Rudewind-Rustling B.F.,B.Am.Ta. D.C.M (Unseen) The Order of Midnight,
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http://www.blood-runs-deep.org/shad0w/ * AFP Bachelor

More commonly known as Chris Crowther, _Shad0w_
or "Why do you always wear black?"

Rocky Frisco

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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Went past the road to that place on the way to Glastonbury Tor with MEG
a couple of months ago. I *really* want to check it out next time. I
just loved the walk through Alderley Edge with Dave Le Good this last
time too; what a great cave! There's one really large room way back in
the darkness; you have to crawl or duckwalk to get back there.

-Rock
--
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Mini Books: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/6437/rockboox.html


MEG

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
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Rocky Frisco wrote in message <36965B...@earthlink.net>...
<snipped OFiaH, sorry>

>Went past the road to that place on the way to Glastonbury Tor with
>MEG a couple of months ago. I *really* want to check it out next
time.
>I just loved the walk through Alderley Edge with Dave Le Good this
last
>time too; what a great cave! There's one really large room way
back in
>the darkness; you have to crawl or duckwalk to get back there.


Next time, mate, next time.

My dodgy memory of the visit to WH (the kids'll remember better)
claimed to show me the petrified remains of the witch. Mind you,
when the lights go out, you can believe anything :-/

The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
yeeesh !

- MEG
--
sig. gone. Not gonne.
*******The Ankh is my sewer, remove it to reply*******

Rocky Frisco

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Jan 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/8/99
to MEG
MEG wrote:
>
> Rocky Frisco wrote in message <36965B...@earthlink.net>...
> <snipped OFiaH, sorry>

(ouch!) ;)

> >Went past the road to that place on the way to Glastonbury Tor with
> >MEG a couple of months ago. I *really* want to check it out next time.
> >I just loved the walk through Alderley Edge with Dave Le Good this last
> >time too; what a great cave! There's one really large room way back in
> >the darkness; you have to crawl or duckwalk to get back there.
>
> Next time, mate, next time.

Bet on it! :)

> My dodgy memory of the visit to WH (the kids'll remember better)
> claimed to show me the petrified remains of the witch. Mind you,
> when the lights go out, you can believe anything :-/

Is *that* where religions come from? ;)

> The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
> yeeesh !

I'll bet they had some sort of intoxicant to help while away the idle
hours.

LoneWolf

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
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To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm), Lisa Green
<l...@sanger.ac.uk> wrote:

>caves in Somerset. Not been there for a few years, wonder if the guides
>are still doing to whole "A long, long time ago......." bit!!

Apparently, it's been outfitted with a light-show, and made really naff
since, unfortunately. One piece of advice to anyone who's intending on
seeing the caves at Cheddar - don't, go to Wookey Hole instead (for the
caves, anyway), unless you want to spend a fair amount of money on
several caves which aren't a patch on Wookey. Still, it's a nice town to
visit[2].

[2] Esp. if you're fond of cheese
--
LoneWolf
Lone...@btinternet.com
ICQ: 10385934
Illacrimate lupo solitario

MEG

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
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Rocky Frisco wrote in message <3696B9...@earthlink.net>...

>MEG wrote about Wookey Hole:


>> The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
>> yeeesh !


>Rock :


>I'll bet they had some sort of intoxicant to help while away the
idle
>hours.


Sorry, I can't take that bet. If'n us educated, civilised, highly
developed peeps have alcohol, nicotine, adrenaline, 'grass' et al...
??

Mebbe there was no need for to use the intoxicants ? The adrenaline
rush from fear in those days must've kept most peeps on a permanent
high. My bet would be that there was lots of chanting around the
fire on a Friday night. Dancing to the drum beat; flirting with the
local HOT; sharing the latest kill.... maybe I should get out more ?

- MEG
--
sig. AWOL but afpianced to Miq {squishysquish} et al
*********The Ankh is a sewer, purge it to reply**********

Rocky Frisco

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
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MEG wrote:
>
> Rocky Frisco wrote in message <3696B9...@earthlink.net>...
>
> >MEG wrote about Wookey Hole:
> >> The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
> >> yeeesh !
>
> >Rock :
> >I'll bet they had some sort of intoxicant to help while away the
> idle
> >hours.
>
> Sorry, I can't take that bet. If'n us educated, civilised, highly
> developed peeps have alcohol, nicotine, adrenaline, 'grass' et al...
> ??
>
> Mebbe there was no need for to use the intoxicants ? The adrenaline
> rush from fear in those days must've kept most peeps on a permanent
> high. My bet would be that there was lots of chanting around the
> fire on a Friday night. Dancing to the drum beat; flirting with the
> local HOT; sharing the latest kill.... maybe I should get out more ?

Reminds me of that pub I wandered into in Reading. ;)

(Especially the adrenalin rush from fear)

-Rock (I'll get me bearskin tunic)

Cliff

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Jan 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/9/99
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MEG wrote in message <7781su$e09$1...@library.lspace.org>...

>Rocky Frisco wrote in message <3696B9...@earthlink.net>...
>
>Mebbe there was no need for to use the intoxicants ? The adrenaline
>rush from fear in those days must've kept most peeps on a permanent
>high
>

Mebbe if you got intoxicated, you got dead. Life really was just
that brutish.

--
Cliff


RobH...@compuserve.com

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Jan 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/10/99
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On 1999-01-08 Gideon_...@3Com.com(GideonHallett) said:
>On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:31:33 +0000, Lisa Green <l...@sanger.ac.uk>
>was a jolly decent type and shared with us:

><snip>
>>[1] As I remember it, when the guide was showing you the shadow
>>cast by the stone when you shone a torch on it, you had to squint,
>>turn upside down and imagine very hard before you saw what they
>>said was there.
> My thoughts were "...nah, it's a couple of rocks"
>Gideon.
>--

Mine were "Aaargh ! Now is *not* a good time to discover
I get claustrophobic in caves !" And then came the walk
over that narrow metal bridge, thirty feet over some
*very* deep water - aaargh again....

And if you call me a coward I'll just have to ....totally
agree with you of course :).

--
Lady O'Bookworm

"I laugh in the face of danger ! And then I hide until it goes away..."
- Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Net-Tamer V 1.10.1 - Registered

Lisa Green

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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LoneWolf wrote:

>
> Apparently, it's been outfitted with a light-show, and made really naff
> since, unfortunately. One piece of advice to anyone who's intending on
> seeing the caves at Cheddar - don't, go to Wookey Hole instead (for the
> caves, anyway), unless you want to spend a fair amount of money on
> several caves which aren't a patch on Wookey. Still, it's a nice town to
> visit[2].
>
> [2] Esp. if you're fond of cheese
>

Being a long time resident of the area (from Shipham......a small, well
very small! village 2 miles from Cheddar, I must disagree. You have to
remember that Cheddar is not all about the caves. There is the Gorge to see
too, although bits of it are attacked with explosives once a year to keep
it safe, but also there are more than a couple of decent pubs too. If
anyones thinking of visiting in the summer, let me know, I'll show you the
back way to climbe Jacobs Ladder (so you don't have to pay!!), and at least
one of the pubs that I cut my teeth in[1].

Lisa

[1] Probably the one opposite my SO house, that way there's not far to
stumble home, well his house anyway.


Gideon Hallett

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:59:03 -0000, "MEG"
<M...@djilibeybi.ankhfree-online.co.uk> was a jolly decent type
and shared with us:

>Rocky Frisco wrote in message <3696B9...@earthlink.net>...
>


>>MEG wrote about Wookey Hole:
>>> The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
>>> yeeesh !
>
>
>>Rock :
>>I'll bet they had some sort of intoxicant to help while away the
>idle
>>hours.
>
>
>Sorry, I can't take that bet. If'n us educated, civilised, highly
>developed peeps have alcohol, nicotine, adrenaline, 'grass' et al...
>??

Possibly not; 'shrooms do grow in that area of the country, hemp
will grow *anywhere* (but prefers police stations[1]) and alcohol
has been with humanity for many thousands of years (c.f. the
Egyptian story of how Ra abated Hathor's bloodlust by getting her
thoroughly pissed...)

Terence McKenna (who is prolly not to be taken *entirely*
seriously, but does have some interesting points, famously
hypothesised that it was the semi-accidental ingestion of
hallucinogenics (in things like mushrooms, ergot and mescal
cacti) that caused humanity to start thinking about the world in
abstract terms; which would make psychedelics partially
responsible for human society as we know it[2].


>
>Mebbe there was no need for to use the intoxicants ? The adrenaline
>rush from fear in those days must've kept most peeps on a permanent

>high. My bet would be that there was lots of chanting around the
>fire on a Friday night. Dancing to the drum beat; flirting with the
>local HOT; sharing the latest kill.... maybe I should get out more ?

Umm, there is very good evidence that consumption of psychedelics
and intoxicants was a fairly important religious event in
prehistoric Europe (like the gut contents of "bog people"[3])

Gideon.

[1] About a year and a half ago (IIRC) there was a minor stir in
my home city of Bath. The police station has these large circular
plant pots (about a metre across) outside the front doors. It was
discovered by an observant member of the public that one of these
pots was happily growing a cannabis plant, obviously planted by
someone with a sense of humour. It should be noted that the thing
was 18 inches high (half a metre) before *anyone* actually
noticed it. Cue red faces for the police, who had been letting
the thing grow on their premises for a couple of months without
noticing it was there...and who had to be told by the public that
they were growing illegal substances.

[2] There are times, both good and bad, when a quick look at
society *does* give you the impression that a career acidhead
made up the rules.

[3] Sacrificial victims, generally bound, garrotted and lobbed
into a bog to appease the local deities. Frequently also fed a
last meal of hallucinogens (possibly to enable them to
communicate with the gods better).

Gideon Hallett

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 16:59:03 -0000, "MEG"
<M...@djilibeybi.ankhfree-online.co.uk> was a jolly decent type
and shared with us:

>Rocky Frisco wrote in message <3696B9...@earthlink.net>...
>
>>MEG wrote about Wookey Hole:
>>> The thought of people living in there all those years ago....
>>> yeeesh !
>
>
>>Rock :
>>I'll bet they had some sort of intoxicant to help while away the
>idle
>>hours.
>

Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
short)?

Gideon.

Sam

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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Gideon Hallett put digit to keypad, to say:

>
>Possibly not; 'shrooms do grow in that area of the country, hemp
>will grow *anywhere* (but prefers police stations[1]) and alcohol
>has been with humanity for many thousands of years (c.f. the
>Egyptian story of how Ra abated Hathor's bloodlust by getting her
>thoroughly pissed...)

<pedant>
Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
</pedant>

Sam
--
"I can't even remember what it was I came here to get away from"
B Dylan

Stewart Tolhurst

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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Sam wrote in message <3699e53b....@news.dircon.co.uk>...

><pedant>
>Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
>intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
>lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
></pedant>

And you know this because.......

OFL

Oh dear.

Stewart
--
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Use "reply to" to email me. WWW: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~musf0012/
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Slarvibarglhee the Comparatively Ancient

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 16:52:56 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com (LoneWolf)
wrote:

<snippedy doo-dah>

>Apparently, it's been outfitted with a light-show, and made really naff
>since, unfortunately. One piece of advice to anyone who's intending on
>seeing the caves at Cheddar - don't, go to Wookey Hole instead (for the
>caves, anyway), unless you want to spend a fair amount of money on
>several caves which aren't a patch on Wookey. Still, it's a nice town to
>visit[2].
>
>[2] Esp. if you're fond of cheese

>--
>LoneWolf
>Lone...@btinternet.com
>ICQ: 10385934
>Illacrimate lupo solitario


You LIE!!!!!

I've visited all the supermarkets and other cheese emporia in the
Greater Manchester area and they all laugh at me in a derisory fashion
when I ask for Wookey Cheese.


Slarvibarglhee the Comparatively Ancient
Who's old enough to know the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything, but doesn't.
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Gideon Hallett

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 12:10:08 GMT, S...@NOSPAMsmeldrum.dircon.co.uk
(Sam) was a jolly decent type and shared with us:

>Gideon Hallett put digit to keypad, to say:
>>
>>Possibly not; 'shrooms do grow in that area of the country, hemp
>>will grow *anywhere* (but prefers police stations[1]) and alcohol
>>has been with humanity for many thousands of years (c.f. the
>>Egyptian story of how Ra abated Hathor's bloodlust by getting her
>>thoroughly pissed...)
>

><pedant>
>Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
>intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
>lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
></pedant>

<pedant>

Depends on the strain. Obviously, C. Indica prefers it equatorial
and standard hemp rope (C. Sativa) isn't going to get you stoned,
but the Ruderalis atrain is comparatively hardy; crossbreed a
strong Indica with a Ruderalis and you will get something that is
less powerful than Indica, but much hardier.

(not speaking from personal experience; just from a book I read a
while back. Honest.)

</pedant>

Gideon.
(yes, it's useless knowledge. So?)

LoneWolf

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm),
help.gonw|spam-trap|.s...@gtnet.gov.uk (Slarvibarglhee the Comparatively
Ancient) wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Jan 1999 16:52:56 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com (LoneWolf)
>wrote:
>
><snippedy doo-dah>
>
>>Apparently, it's been outfitted with a light-show, and made really naff
>>since, unfortunately. One piece of advice to anyone who's intending on
>>seeing the caves at Cheddar - don't, go to Wookey Hole instead (for the
>>caves, anyway), unless you want to spend a fair amount of money on
>>several caves which aren't a patch on Wookey. Still, it's a nice town to
>>visit[2].
>>
>>[2] Esp. if you're fond of cheese
>

>You LIE!!!!!
>
>I've visited all the supermarkets and other cheese emporia in the
>Greater Manchester area and they all laugh at me in a derisory fashion
>when I ask for Wookey Cheese.

C|N>K

The first time I read that, I was wondering how you got cheese from
Chewbacca, hmm, I really must get my mind out of the gutter someday.
Actually, I was referring to Cheddar with the cheese footnote, not
Wookey Hole.

LoneWolf

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
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To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm),
S...@NOSPAMsmeldrum.dircon.co.uk (Sam) wrote:

><pedant>
>Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
>intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
>lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
></pedant>

Actually, as long as such plants receive enough light, and enough warmth
to grow to any degree, such factors have little effect on the effects of
the produce. A greater influence is how the plant is treated *after*
growing[2]. This is all according to the most common variety around
these parts, tho' - and a more exotic breed may well exhibit different
characteristics.

Oh, and if you're referring to the plant for which the slogan 'Free the
Weed' is often in reference to, then hemp might not be the most accurate
term, as it includes the much less prohibited strains.

HTH - HAND

[2] Or so I'm well informed

doc.

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to
In <369a2ea3...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon Hallett shared with us the
following wisdom:

>
> (not speaking from personal experience; just from a book I read a
> while back. Honest.)

And it's true.
Me? I'm a professional, i oughtta know...

> (yes, it's useless knowledge. So?)

It bloody well isn't.

Dr"gardeningisfun"Vielgut.

Richard Eney

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
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In article <369d5a37...@news.btinternet.com>,

LoneWolf <lone...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>S...@NOSPAMsmeldrum.dircon.co.uk (Sam) wrote:
>><pedant>
>>Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
>>intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
>>lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
>></pedant>
>
>Actually, as long as such plants receive enough light, and enough warmth
>to grow to any degree, such factors have little effect on the effects of
>the produce. A greater influence is how the plant is treated *after*
>growing[2]. [snip]

>[2] Or so I'm well informed

People who live in Alaska (where it's legal to grow and use your own but
not to sell or buy) tell me that it is both the variety (there seem to be
several sub-species, some of which are very different) and the treatment
_while growing_ that determine final potency. The kind of hemp that is
grown to make rope and other useful fiber objects has little or no THC in
it and is scorned by smokers (it's called K-pot, because it grows wild in
Kansas, where it was grown for rope in WWII). The kind of hemp that has
more THC will have it concentrated if the plant is carefully pinched back
and made to branch multiply rather than growing into a tall raggedy weed,
and harvested at the right time. I don't smoke at all myself and never
did, but people have this odd tendency to tell me things.

=Tamar

Slarvibarglhee the Comparatively Ancient

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
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On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:00:33 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com (LoneWolf)
wrote:

<snip>


>C|N>K
>
>The first time I read that, I was wondering how you got cheese from
>Chewbacca, hmm, I really must get my mind out of the gutter someday.
>Actually, I was referring to Cheddar with the cheese footnote, not
>Wookey Hole.

>--
>LoneWolf
>Lone...@btinternet.com
>ICQ: 10385934
>Illacrimate lupo solitario

I know, and *I* was trying to be amusing, but it loses some of the
impact when I have to explain.

esmi

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to
In <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon Hallett said:

>Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
>in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
>hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
>enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
>spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
>body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
>short)?

I've heard about this too but I've always thought it had either
something to do with the cells in the retina beginning to fire
randomly or that it was the result of the brain being
understimulated. A sort of neural thumb-twiddling. ;-)

The only similar thing I have experienced is the aura I get right
before a migraine. OK...so it's followed by hours of intense pain
but, while it lasts, that's some light show with colours that are
far more intense than any I've ever seen in RL. Strangely enough,
the aura is often preceded by a natural high (sometimes called
"pre-migraine euphoria") that is rather similar to the effects of
alcohol but with none of the side effects like slurred speech or
dizziness etc. The only two disadvantages of this are:

1) trying to convince people that I haven't been drinking

and

2) having to apologise to people a day or so later for things I
may have said or done. *blush*

ah well....at least it's a free high...

esmi
--
"Academics get paid for being clever, not for being right." (Donald Norman
Read the FAQs lately? http://www.lspace.org/faq/


Charles Spalton

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to

esmi wrote in message <369a77e3...@news.lspace.org>...

>In <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon Hallett said:
>
<SNIP>

>
>The only similar thing I have experienced is the aura I get right
>before a migraine. OK...so it's followed by hours of intense pain
>but, while it lasts, that's some light show with colours that are
>far more intense than any I've ever seen in RL. Strangely enough,
>the aura is often preceded by a natural high (sometimes called
>"pre-migraine euphoria") that is rather similar to the effects of
>alcohol but with none of the side effects like slurred speech or
>dizziness etc. The only two disadvantages of this are:
>
>1) trying to convince people that I haven't been drinking
>
>and
>
>2) having to apologise to people a day or so later for things I
>may have said or done. *blush*
>


Some would add that the hangover-like splitting headache that follows the
"high" could be called a further disadvantage :)

Charles.

in...@fdhoekstra.nl

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
Stephen Booth wrote:
>
> lone...@btinternet.com (LoneWolf) wrote:
>
> >C|N>K
>
> That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.

_Through_ nose (it's a pipe, after all) _into_ keyboard.

> Support Specialist, DBA and BOFH in training

Hrmph. RTFMP.

Richard

LoneWolf

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm),
help.gonw|spam-trap|.s...@gtnet.gov.uk (Slarvibarglhee the Comparatively
Ancient) wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:00:33 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com (LoneWolf)
>wrote:
>
><snip>

>>Actually, I was referring to Cheddar with the cheese footnote, not
>>Wookey Hole.
>

>I know, and *I* was trying to be amusing, but it loses some of the
>impact when I have to explain.

Subtlety doesn't work on everyone (inc. me), so it might have been an
idea to have put a smiley or a <g> at the end to indicate the humourous
intent of the post, just for us without the ability to distinguish
intentional jokes and innocent misunderstandings (both of which are in
quite high proportions in such a large group).

LoneWolf

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm), dic...@Radix.Net
(Richard Eney) wrote:

>In article <369d5a37...@news.btinternet.com>,
>LoneWolf <lone...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>S...@NOSPAMsmeldrum.dircon.co.uk (Sam) wrote:
>>><pedant>
>>>Hemp will grow anywhere, but does not produce very much of the
>>>intoxicating substance for which it is well known unless the
>>>lighting and temperature conditions are 'right'.
>>></pedant>
>>
>>Actually, as long as such plants receive enough light, and enough warmth
>>to grow to any degree, such factors have little effect on the effects of
>>the produce. A greater influence is how the plant is treated *after*

>>growing. [snip]
>
>People who live in Alaska tell me that it is both the variety and the treatment
>_while growing_ that determine final potency. The kind of hemp that has


>more THC will have it concentrated if the plant is carefully pinched back
>and made to branch multiply rather than growing into a tall raggedy weed,
>and harvested at the right time.

Indeed, I must concur with this, but my main point was that the
light/heat conditions have little of an effect on the depressant
produced, not the general care of the plant (and also the use of an
organic or synthetic fertilizer, which also has a profound effect, btw).

p_a...@cableinet.co.uk

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
esmi wrote:
>
> In <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon Hallett said:
>
> >Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
> >in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
> >hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
> >enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
> >spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
> >body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
> >short)?

Once i tried cloing my eyes and rubbing them (Don't ask why, I can't
remember why :P), and this produced some wierd effects such as blackand
white lines and stuff. Actually it's more heard by your brain than seen
by your eyes, like deaths voice is supposed to be. I dont know why this
happens, but the effect is definitely like that afterglow after you look
at a lightbulb.

"FLIP!!!!!" -Adun, Me

Mike Knell

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to

In article <36acd940....@news.demon.co.uk>,

Stephen Booth <stephe...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:00:33 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com
>(LoneWolf) wrote:
>
>>C|N>K
>
>That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.

No it doesn't. coffee | nose > keyboard

(i.e. "the coffee I was drinking just came out of my nose and splashed on
my keyboard, as a result of the mirth occasioned by reading this")

It's a pipe, he said helpfully.

m.

Rune Moberg

unread,
Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
> In <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon Hallett said:
> >Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
> >in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to

A friend of mine told me that he and a buddy decidied to find out
whether turning off all the lights would make you focus more on the
music, so they turned off all the lights, turned the music way up and
started listening to it. His buddy's mom got slightly worried when she
walked into the room and it was pitch black... [1]

[1] "Son, I've always wanted to know; do you happen to like musicals?"

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com

Simon Brown

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:49:35 GMT, Stephen Booth mumbled...
> On 13 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0000, Mike Knell <m...@cs.nott.ac.uk>
> Naah. Thats C>N|K.
>
> ie the coffee (C) went down (>) my nose and sprayed (|) over my
> keyboard (K).

Er, no. Because the eventual resting place of the coffee is in the
keyboard. Hence >K. And it is piped through the nose. Hence |N.

Yours says "Coffee piped through keyboard into nose." Which doesn't make
any sense.

> C>N<K would also work, IMHO.

Your HO, WADR, is wrong. What you've got there is "Coffee, using the
contents of the keyboard, into your nose."

Of course, if you're making coffee with the contents of your keyboard and
subsequently pouring it into your nose, your judgement may well be
slightly impaired in any case.

HTH.

--
Simon Brown <si...@lspace.org> - http://www.amdev.demon.co.uk/

Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
- H. L. Mencken

John Barberio

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:49:35 GMT, stephe...@bigfoot.com (Stephen
Booth) wrote:
>On 13 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0000, Mike Knell <m...@cs.nott.ac.uk>
>wrote:
>>No it doesn't. coffee | nose > keyboard
>>(i.e. "the coffee I was drinking just came out of my nose and splashed on
>>my keyboard, as a result of the mirth occasioned by reading this")
>>
>>It's a pipe, he said helpfully.
>
>Naah. Thats C>N|K.

Hmm, you dont use Unix redirection much do you. That would be Pipe the
coffie into your nose, then push the nose through the keyboard. Which
could hurt a bit.

>ie the coffee (C) went down (>) my nose and sprayed (|) over my

>keyboard (K). C>N<K would also work, IMHO.

Nah, thats Push both the Coffee and the Keyboard into my nose. Which
can REALY hurt.

- J

--
123456789|123456789|123456789|123456789|123456789|123456789|123456789|12
ClueRuler SigVersion 5.1 <j...@gruk.algonet.se> A Small Guide To .sig Style
A nice .sig is a tidy .sig (John Barberio) Kids - ASCII art, Just Say No
My sig has 4 lines of 72 characters. Good sigs start with "-- <newline>"

Nils

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
stephenbooth (stephe...@bigfoot.com) wrote on the 13.01.99
(in 36acd940....@news.demon.co.uk):

>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:00:33 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com
>(LoneWolf) wrote:
>
>>C|N>K
>>
>
>That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.
>What are you trying to tell us here?

Coffee through Nose on Keys!? <--> <spludder!>

HTH-HAND!
=*)

nils

--
AFPiance of li'l Ookey, AFPsibling of Meg, the magpie,
AFPapa of petite Claire, AFPhugcuddler of Shiv, well
aware of A LIFE(tm) ...and pro'ly AFPrelated to self.
-=* Please read the FAQs at <http://www.lspace.org> *=-

Karen Hanna Kruzycka

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:00:37 +1100, Denis Hackney <paln...@groo.com>
wrote:

>Mike Knell wrote:
>> Stephen Booth wrote:


>>> LoneWolf wrote:
>>>> C|N>K
>>> That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.

>> No it doesn't. coffee | nose > keyboard
>

>Something that's always made me wonder about this...
>C, N, K = coffee, nose, keyboard respectively.
>| = through
>> = greater than
>hence C|N>K = "the coffe that just went through my nose is bigger than
>my keyboard", yesno? Shouldn't "coffee through nose over keyboard" be
>something more like "C|N/K" or even "(C|N)*(K^(-1))"...?

It's a Unix shell thing, not a mathematical notation thing. And I'm
told by those who know more than me (hi Simes!) that C|N>K is better
translated as 'coffee through nose _into_ keyboard'.
--
Karen 'Vodka Vixen' Kruzycka -- http://www.voltaire.demon.co.uk/
"Sporks! My favourite harmless utensils!" - Duckman

Denise Connell

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Jan 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/13/99
to
Emma of XXXXia wrote:
>
> In article <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon_...@3Com.com
> says...

> > Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
> > in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
> > hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
> > enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
> > spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
> > body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
> > short)?
> >
> Probably a safety mechanism against going mad due to lack of stimuli.
> Althugh doesn't the brain already produce small amounts of serotonin
> (what makes LSD so much fun) anyway? Any Chem/Psych students here?
> (Yegads what am I saying?)
>
Funny thing about sight and brain chemistry - I used to work with people
who had visual disabilities and many of my clients developed sleep
disorders after they had lost their sight. It seems that their entire
body clock went "off". Some slept during the day and were awake at
night, some had chronic insomnia and other folks just slept at odd
intervals - I don't know why this occurs, but I do know that it is a
common phenomena.

>Denise
http://www.snapdragongifts.com
Universal Design = Access for Everyone


Denis Hackney

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Mike Knell wrote:
> Stephen Booth wrote:
>> LoneWolf wrote:
>>> C|N>K
>> That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.
> No it doesn't. coffee | nose > keyboard

Something that's always made me wonder about this...
C, N, K = coffee, nose, keyboard respectively.
| = through
> = greater than
hence C|N>K = "the coffe that just went through my nose is bigger than
my keyboard", yesno? Shouldn't "coffee through nose over keyboard" be
something more like "C|N/K" or even "(C|N)*(K^(-1))"...?

Enquizically,
Denis.
--
"Stop trying to go down the giant water-slide five | Denis Hackney
inches at a time so you can enjoy it more and make | paln...@groo.com
it last; it's a SLIDE, for f***'s sake."--Dave Sim | ANU Geology Honours
Part of Meg the Magpie's Collective & designated mumbler of Carol's Heap

Denis Hackney

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Karen Hanna Kruzycka wrote:
> Denis Hackney wrote:
[snip discussion and queries about C|N>K]

> It's a Unix shell thing, not a mathematical notation thing. And I'm
> told by those who know more than me (hi Simes!) that C|N>K is better
> translated as 'coffee through nose _into_ keyboard'.

Fair enough then - thought it might be something like that[1]. It's the
usual problem of too much time messing around with Windows and not
enough time messing around in Unix...[2]

(Mind you, it's all completely academic to me since I'm alergic to
coffee anyway...)

Enlightenedly,
Denis.

[1] No, seriously, I did...
[2] Note subtle distinction of *with* Windows vs. *in* Unix...

Craig Motbey

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon_...@3Com.com says...

<snip>

>Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
>in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
>hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
>enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
>spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
>body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
>short)?

Apparently the visual centres of the brain are accustomed to recieving input,
and if they don't get it they start to make it up...I remember reading (in a
Developmental Psychology textbook) about a woman who'd had one optic nerve
damaged, and after awhile the eye she was blind in started "seeing" full-colour
Warner Bros cartoons...

--
Craig Motbey

Emma of XXXXia

unread,
Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon_...@3Com.com
says...
> Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
> in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
> hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
> enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
> spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
> body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
> short)?
>
Probably a safety mechanism against going mad due to lack of stimuli.
Althugh doesn't the brain already produce small amounts of serotonin
(what makes LSD so much fun) anyway? Any Chem/Psych students here?
(Yegads what am I saying?)

Emma
--
afpiance to David Roy and Antti the eloquent.
afpsister to Tamara Rigg.
alt.other-ng.afpiance.snail.snail.snail
Remove TT to email me. Cheese messages welcome.

Emma of XXXXia

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <77elim$97h$1...@saltmine.radix.net>, dic...@Radix.Net says...

> The kind of hemp that has
> more THC will have it concentrated if the plant is carefully pinched back
> and made to branch multiply rather than growing into a tall raggedy weed,
> and harvested at the right time. I don't smoke at all myself and never
> did, but people have this odd tendency to tell me things.
>
>
Also, in an area where it's not legal to grow your own, it would be
easier to hide the plant that is branch multiplying as it is lower to the
ground. So I hear.

in...@fdhoekstra.nl

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
John Barberio wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:49:35 GMT, stephe...@bigfoot.com (Stephen
> Booth) wrote:
> >On 13 Jan 1999 18:23:10 -0000, Mike Knell <m...@cs.nott.ac.uk>
> >wrote:
> >>No it doesn't. coffee | nose > keyboard
> >>(i.e. "the coffee I was drinking just came out of my nose and splashed on
> >>my keyboard, as a result of the mirth occasioned by reading this")
> >>
> >>It's a pipe, he said helpfully.
> >
> >Naah. Thats C>N|K.
>
> Hmm, you dont use Unix redirection much do you. That would be Pipe the
> coffie into your nose, then push the nose through the keyboard. Which
> could hurt a bit.

Even pedanticallier: Coffee into nose, then the results of
the nose through the keyboard. Then, since he doesn't specify
where the keyboard's result ends up, display said result.

I wouldn't want to work at his office.

Richard

in...@fdhoekstra.nl

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Denis Hackney wrote:
>
> Karen Hanna Kruzycka wrote:
> > Denis Hackney wrote:
> [snip discussion and queries about C|N>K]
> > It's a Unix shell thing, not a mathematical notation thing. And I'm
> > told by those who know more than me (hi Simes!) that C|N>K is better
> > translated as 'coffee through nose _into_ keyboard'.
>
> Fair enough then - thought it might be something like that[1].
> It's the usual problem of too much time messing around with
> Windows and not enough time messing around in Unix...[2]

To be fair to Losedows[1], messed up as its piping is, this,
at least, is possible in it as well. In MS-DOS, already.

> (Mind you, it's all completely academic to me since I'm alergic to
> coffee anyway...)

Use T|N>K. Or claim the C denotes coke in your case. Refuse
to tell what kind of coke passes your nose. None of their
business, is it?

Richard

[1] "Why?", you may ask, justefiedly. "Because I'm not stooping
to its level", I answer.

in...@fdhoekstra.nl

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Denise Connell wrote:

>
> Emma of XXXXia wrote:
> >
> > In article <369bcbe6...@194.177.160.14>, Gideon_...@3Com.com
> > says...
> > > Actually, interesting little thingy; if you sit for long enough
> > > in a completely dark environment, you start (apparently) to
> > > hallucinate random objects. Not done it myself (don't like
> > > enclosed spaces like caves) but am assured that it's pretty
> > > spectacular. Wonder if it's due to the psychedelics the human
> > > body produces naturally (e.g. dimethyltryptamine or DMT for
> > > short)?
> > >
> > Probably a safety mechanism against going mad due to lack of stimuli.
> > Althugh doesn't the brain already produce small amounts of serotonin
> > (what makes LSD so much fun) anyway? Any Chem/Psych students here?
> > (Yegads what am I saying?)
> >
> Funny thing about sight and brain chemistry - I used to work with people
> who had visual disabilities and many of my clients developed sleep
> disorders after they had lost their sight. It seems that their entire
> body clock went "off". Some slept during the day and were awake at
> night, some had chronic insomnia and other folks just slept at odd
> intervals - I don't know why this occurs, but I do know that it is a
> common phenomena.

I read somewhere that the natural daylength for humans is
on average 25 hours, but gets reset every day by the
outside world. This is, apparently, because there's a
variation in its length among individuals, and it's safer
to have it slightly long, and interrupted every day, than
to run the risk of having lots of individuals with a short
cycle, who can't be interrupted and will have trouble
extending their day.

Richard

Gideon Hallett

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 11:35:47 +1100, Denis Hackney
<paln...@groo.com> was a jolly decent type and shared with us:

(well, Karen did, but Shub-Internet hasn't seen fit to bless me
with that message yet...)

>Karen Hanna Kruzycka wrote:
>> Denis Hackney wrote:
>[snip discussion and queries about C|N>K]
>> It's a Unix shell thing, not a mathematical notation thing. And I'm
>> told by those who know more than me (hi Simes!) that C|N>K is better
>> translated as 'coffee through nose _into_ keyboard'.
>

First time I came across it, I thought it was Dirac notation. I
don't think we have enough cryptic squiggles for the job *g*

(although we should maybe call upon my old Mathematical Methods
lecturer to help. They may *not* have been cryptic squiggles to
him, but 1-inch-high badly formed letters from a range of about
60 feet, well...

We ended up cribbing notes off the people in the front row and
playing chess and 3D Noughts and Crosses.)

Gideon.

--
|= Gideon_...@3Com.com.(XNFP)================== \\\\ waaa! |
| Given a little bit of thrust, most hedgehogs ___\\\\\\____o |
| fly just fine. Landing, however... --===***>>X___\\\\\\^c/ |

Peter Ellis

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
in...@fdhoekstra.nl wrote...

>
>Denis Hackney wrote:
>>
>> (Mind you, it's all completely academic to me since I'm alergic to
>> coffee anyway...)
>
>Use T|N>K. Or claim the C denotes coke in your case. Refuse
>to tell what kind of coke passes your nose. None of their
>business, is it?
>

Well, isn't the whole point about the powdery coke [1] that it doesn't
go *through* the nose but just stays there?

Would it be something like C<K|£5|N

Coke from keyboard, piped through a rolled-up fiver into the nose,
display result? [2] [3]

Anyhow, the two types *should* be distinguishable from the command used
to implement them, I suppose.

Peter


[1] Is this freeze-dried stuff? In which case sniffing Nescafe should
give the same effect.

[2] Pedants welcome -- I'll be very surprised if I've got it right,
since IANA geek.

[3] I'd lay very good odds that someone will now come along and add a
command to explicitly "roll up" the £5. £5 | stuffit.exe or something?

8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Karen Hanna Kruzycka <Vi...@lspace.org> wrote:
^

| It's a Unix shell thing, not a mathematical notation thing. And I'm
| told by those who know more than me (hi Simes!) that C|N>K is better
| translated as 'coffee through nose _into_ keyboard'.
v

Well obviously there isn't a one-to-one correspondence
with English words. The correct translation (into/onto)
is whichever one makes sense in the context.

Adrian.

8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
^

| Would it be something like C<K|£5|N
|
| Coke from keyboard, piped through a rolled-up fiver into the nose,
| display result? [2] [3]
v

The point of the fiver is to extract the coke from the
keyboard, right?

So,
K|£5>N (or |N if you really want to display the result)
where
K|£5 == C (or whatever happens to be on the keyboard).

--
Here and there I like to preserve a few islands of sanity
within the vast sea of absurdity which is my mind.
After all, you can't survive as an eight foot tall
flesh eating dragon if you've got no concept of reality.

in...@fdhoekstra.nl

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Stephen Booth wrote:
> I am fully aware that it is a pipe. I use them often useually
> for things like ps -ef | grep [dD][oO][oO][mM] and similar.

And do you then kill -9 them, or join in?

Richard

8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
in...@fdhoekstra.nl wrote:
^

| I read somewhere that the natural daylength for humans is
| on average 25 hours, but gets reset every day by the
| outside world. This is, apparently, because there's a
| variation in its length among individuals, and it's safer
| to have it slightly long, and interrupted every day, than
| to run the risk of having lots of individuals with a short
| cycle, who can't be interrupted and will have trouble
| extending their day.
v

Interesting - I've heard the facts but not the explanation.
Apart from the better-known explanation of us being aliens
from a planet with a 25 hour day, but I've never quite
believed it.

What's really interesting about the way the body clock is
reset is that it's largely done by light, yet blind
people don't suffer from a faulty body clock. The reason?
We actually have light-sensitive cells all over our
bodies - there are pigments in our skin that respond to
blue light. IIRC there's a concentration of them in
certain places like the back of our knees (not sure why).

Richard Eney

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
In article <01be3fc4$adfe0bc0$45c426cb@morganpalaeo>,

8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon <morgan...@netyp.com.au> wrote:
>in...@fdhoekstra.nl wrote:
> ^
> | I read somewhere that the natural daylength for humans is
> | on average 25 hours, but gets reset every day by the
> | outside world. This is, apparently, because there's a
> | variation in its length among individuals, and it's safer
> | to have it slightly long,
<snip>

>Interesting - I've heard the facts but not the explanation.
<snip>

>What's really interesting about the way the body clock is
>reset is that it's largely done by light, yet blind
>people don't suffer from a faulty body clock. The reason?
>We actually have light-sensitive cells all over our
>bodies - there are pigments in our skin that respond to
>blue light. IIRC there's a concentration of them in
>certain places like the back of our knees (not sure why).

A few posts ago the point was made that some formerly-sighted blind people
do suffer from a faulty body clock after losing their sight. However,
this may be because those individuals routinely keep their eyes closed and
also wear clothing that covers their elbows and knees.

=Tamar

Lindsay

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

p_a...@cableinet.co.uk wrote in message <369CE6...@cableinet.co.uk>...

>
>Once i tried cloing my eyes and rubbing them (Don't ask why, I can't
>remember why :P), and this produced some wierd effects such as blackand
>white lines and stuff. Actually it's more heard by your brain than seen
>by your eyes, like deaths voice is supposed to be. I dont know why this
>happens, but the effect is definitely like that afterglow after you look
>at a lightbulb.
>
You aren't alone in having done this... My mum first told me about this
phenomenon and I used to good effect when I'd finished exams but still had
half an hour to go before the end...

Linz
--
oh, not really a pedant, I wouldn't say
reply to: li...@earthling.net
You can find linz at gofar dot demon dot co dot uk


Denise Connell

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
Richard Eney wrote:
>
A few posts ago the point was made that some formerly-sighted blind
people do suffer from a faulty body clock after losing their sight.
However, this may be because those individuals routinely keep their eyes
closed and also wear clothing that covers their elbows and knees.
>
> err...actually, that wouldn't be it. People with visual disabilities dress like everyone else here in California i.e in very little. My friend Jerry is completely blind and he wears shorts and a tank top most of the year. He gives walking tours of San Francisco on the weekends (as well as being a Western Regional Manager for a technology company) for both blind and sighted tourists. Jerry is out in the sun a *lot*, so I doubt that it is an issue of exposure to sunlight. My other friend Satana skies (for those of you who just went, huh?, she uses a line and a guide) and she loves hiking and she has the same sleep issues that Jerry has.

Jerry has two glass eyes [1] (he lost both to cancer) and Satana keeps
her eyes open (she has pretty blue eyes and most people can't tell she
is blind when they first meet her - she is blind because she was born
without certain optical nerves)[2].

and just for the record, folks, it is preferable to say "people with
disabilities" or "people who are blind" rather then the other way
around.
The person matters more then the challenge.

and while I am on the subject:

Microsoft recently released a series of commercials bragging that they
help people with visual disabilities access technology. If so, they've
changed their tune. They've been sued in Federal Court several times in
the last 10 years by various groups because they have refused to make
Windows more accessible to folks with visual disabilities. (Imagine
trying to navigate icons, graphics and tool bars using pizo-electric
Braille displays) They have resisted and stalled and delayed in court as
long as they could. If I remember correctly (and some legal beagle help
me out here) a judge ruled in 1995? (under the American Disabilities
Act) that they would have to make their next version of Windows
accessible - thus their proud boasting. (grumble, grumble, rotten
&^%%$$#!s, grumble).

Other companies have found ways around this and other challenges (and
come up with some nifty technology, to boot). Check out:

http://www.humanware.com
(their Braille computer was featured in the movie "Sneakers")

http://arkenstone.org
(they make reading machines with Braille displays and speech
synthesizers - using these a person who is blind can read both Terry's
books in print format as well as afp :-)

all good things,

[1] He has a special set he wears to parties; these have a tiny eight
ball painted in the middle :-) He used to have a turquoise set, but
someone stole those when he was in traveling overseas.
[2] She also has a kick-ass figure and likes to wear shirts so short it
would make Ali MacBeal blush. She works on computers, takes care of her
baby daughter, went to college in Alaska of all places, plays several
instruments and speaks 3 languages - come to think of it, I really,
really hate her :-)

--
Denise Connell

Mike Knell

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

In article <369e0...@glitch.nildram.co.uk>,
Chris Horry <lo...@the.sig.invalid> wrote:

>Go into the DOS prompt sometime, spend a few days learning it :)
>The redirection and soforth is the same in DOS as in UNIX.

Aaaaahhh... sort of. DOS shell (and by extension, Windows xx shell) has
a *similiar* redirection scheme to Unix sh, but is, of course, broken in
all kinds of exciting ways. It seems to be excitingly faddy about things
like whitespace, and is far less powerful.

At least, I don't trust DOS redirection stuff one little bit. If you
really want to learn about these things, log into a convenient Unix
box and say 'man sh'...

m.


esmi

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

>I read somewhere that the natural daylength for humans is
>on average 25 hours, but gets reset every day by the
>outside world.

There's some research being done on this which suggests that it's
the sunlight in early which can reset the brain. One researcher
has been working with chronic insomniacs who are subjected to
intense light near dawn in an attempt to reset their body clocks.

>This is, apparently, because there's a
>variation in its length among individuals, and it's safer

>to have it slightly long, and interrupted every day, than
>to run the risk of having lots of individuals with a short
>cycle, who can't be interrupted and will have trouble
>extending their day.

Isn't there theory that the brain works on circadian rythmns
though and that the human daylength can alter according to the
time of year ie shorter in winter, longer in summer?

esmi
--
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." (Blair Houghton)
Read the FAQs lately? http://www.lspace.org/faq/


LoneWolf

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm),
stephe...@bigfoot.com (Stephen Booth) wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:00:33 GMT, lone...@btinternet.com

>(LoneWolf) wrote:
>
>>C|N>K
>
>That translates as Coffee all over nose and down keyboard.
>

>What are you trying to tell us here?

I think you just answered your own question, that as a result of reading
the post to which I was replying and drinking a certain caffeinated[2]
beverage at the time, I ended up with a nasty dripping nose, and a wet
and sticky keyboard. Very straightforward, I thought.

[2] And I have just found that the Agent spellchecker doesn't recognize
this word. I am *not* impressed
--
LoneWolf
Lone...@btinternet.com
ICQ: 10385934
Illacrimate lupo solitario

LoneWolf

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
To provide a distraction from the tedium of RL(tm),
es...@deity.freeserve.co.uk (esmi) wrote:

<snip post mainly re: "pre-migraine euphoria">

>ah well....at least it's a free high...

With that pain, you call it free?

Cliff

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to

Nathan Fenenga Yospe wrote in message <77m7sk$g...@news.Hawaii.Edu>...
>Nils (zap...@orplid.shnet.org) wrote:
>: >>C|N>K
>
>: Coffee through Nose on Keys!? <--> <spludder!>
>
>And I always look at it and wonder what the eigenfunction N is, and
what
>the Operator C does. I figure K is a constant. Maybe C is the
eigenvalue
>of some operator on N...


I figured it needed a bra.

Perhaps <m| or <L|

This would collapse the probability waveform, C|N>, to a realizable
state.

So, we have , <n|C|N>K, which is certainly possible expression for
a probablility amplitude. To make it measureable, we take the Hermitian
square of it and get <n|C|N>K*k<N|C|n>, which collapses K on
the diagonal so there will be an invariant trace.

This is certainly something measurable. If you wonder what it measures
then you have not done any graduate work (slavery) in high energy
physics. So there...

You will instantly see that the creation operator for the Discworld
was a low probablility but highly intense beam emanating from
TP or as LISPers might say pTP in its para form. Where T is a kind
of soft cloth and P is the LISP boolean (P;) of a locking, cog and
gear wrench.

--
Cliff
"All he ever really wanted to do was make things go boom. Until he did."


Denise Connell

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Jan 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/14/99
to
8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon wrote:
>
> Denise Connell wrote, quoting Tamar:
> ^

> | > A few posts ago the point was made that some formerly-sighted blind people do suffer from a faulty body clock after losing their sight.
However, this may be because those individuals routinely keep their eyes
> | > closed and also wear clothing that covers their elbows and knees.
> |
> | err...actually, that wouldn't be it.
> v
>
> OK I've just checked the article ("The Sciences" Sept /
> Oct 1998. p7) where I read about it. I won't quote the
> article 'cos that's probably illegal, but to summarise:
>
> - In the eye, pigments called opsins absorb light in the
> retina and transmit it to the brain. These were believed
> to be responsible for setting the internal clock, but
> people whose opsins have been destroyed do not
> necessarily suffer from a faulty internal clock.
>
> - Two new varieties of light-sensitive pigments have been
> discovered, called "cryptochromes". These exist in
> another part of the retina to the opsins, absorb only
> blue light, and transmit to another part of the brain.
>
> - Cryptochromes are found not only in the eye but all
> over the body. A study at Cornell University showed that
> shining a light on the back of the subjects' knees was
> enough to reset their internal clocks.
>
The point I was making earlier, was that the two people I mentioned are
out in the sun *all the time* (not hiding in their rooms or wearing body
covering clothing) so while I don't necessarily doubt the validity of
this study, I'd be interested to know:

1) what kind of light they were using, at what intensity
2) how often they used it and for how long a period of time
3) what sort of success they had in the group they studied
4) the composition of the group they studied

I doubt that this will prove to be a quick fix for everyone with a
visual disability. However, I will certainly point both of my friends
towards this study and I'll read it myself :-) Thanks for the info!

Denise
http://www.snapdragongifts.com
The Vastness of Space and Time and I End Up Here ?


Nathan Fenenga Yospe

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Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
Nils (zap...@orplid.shnet.org) wrote:
: >>C|N>K

: Coffee through Nose on Keys!? <--> <spludder!>

And I always look at it and wonder what the eigenfunction N is, and what
the Operator C does. I figure K is a constant. Maybe C is the eigenvalue
of some operator on N...

--

Nathan F. Yospe - Born in the year of the tiger, riding it forever after
University of Hawaii at Manoa, Dept of Physics, second year senior (joy)
(On Call) Associate Algorithm Developer, Textron Systems Corp, Maui Ops.
yospe#hawaii.edu http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe Non commercial email only

8 ' Flesh Eating Dragon

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Jan 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/15/99
to
Denise Connell wrote, quoting Tamar:
^
| > A few posts ago the point was made that some formerly-sighted blind
| > people do suffer from a faulty body clock after losing their sight.
| > However, this may be because those individuals routinely keep their eyes
| > closed and also wear clothing that covers their elbows and knees.
|
| err...actually, that wouldn't be it.
v

OK I've just checked the article ("The Sciences" Sept /
Oct 1998. p7) where I read about it. I won't quote the
article 'cos that's probably illegal, but to summarise:

- In the eye, pigments called opsins absorb light in the
retina and transmit it to the brain. These w