[R](i think) Goons
Rowan Chadwick
documentarty about the goon show last night i havn't spotted many references
really but i'm about as far from being a goon expert as you could get
(before i start appraoching it from the other side if einstien was right).
are there many? also it was a shame there wasn't more of him but that life
eh
Sherilyn
Rowan Chadwick <ro...@rowanchadwick.com> wrote:
>I found it interesting that they choose to interview Terry on the
>documentarty about the goon show last night
>
Unlike many celebrities, he isn't quite as old as the really old
farts, but unlike, say, Robbie Williams, he actually remembers a time
before Harry Seacombe was that fat old Welsh buffer who hosts Highway.
Some of Pratchett is vaguely similar to the Goons humour, particularly
the footnotes. For instance, the counting pines that evolve to
advertise their age, and end up being harvested for house numbers.
--
Correct email address is in reply-to.
Filter on domain name only.
http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/
David Chapman
> In Message-ID <IRiH6.18266$PP3.1...@nnrp3.clara.net>,
> Rowan Chadwick <ro...@rowanchadwick.com> wrote:
> >I found it interesting that they choose to interview Terry on the
> >documentarty about the goon show last night
> >are there many? also it was a shame there wasn't more of him but that life
> [...]
> >
> Unlike many celebrities, he isn't quite as old as the really old
> farts, but unlike, say, Robbie Williams, he actually remembers a time
> before Harry Seacombe was that fat old Welsh buffer who hosts Highway.
>
> Some of Pratchett is vaguely similar to the Goons humour, particularly
> the footnotes. For instance, the counting pines that evolve to
> advertise their age, and end up being harvested for house numbers.
Not to mention the resonance between Dibbler's fly-by-night schemes and
those of Grytpype-Thynne. Persuading someone not only to drink Loch
Lomond but to pay sixpence a glass for the privilege, indeed.
--
"Would you say your songs are about liquor,
women, drugs and killing, for the most part?"
"Yep."
Terry Pratchett
<6...@sherilyn.org.uk> writes
>
>Some of Pratchett is vaguely similar to the Goons humour, particularly
>the footnotes. For instance, the counting pines that evolve to
>advertise their age, and end up being harvested for house numbers.
I think it's truer to say that the Goons had an effect on British humour
that makes the Pythons look weedy in comparison. But they were on
radio, ie, didn't really exist.
Half the time, watching Python, you were mildly embarrassed at how dumb
some of the sketches were, and how badly they ended or, mostly, faded
away (just like the offensively stupid ending of Holy Grail). The Goons
were consistently better.
--
Terry Pratchett
Edwin Brady
I spotted a couple in Equal Rites a while back which may or may not be
Goons references... Esk saying of her staff that "Everything's gotta
be somewhere" sounded very Eccles to me. Shortly followed by a
complaint of "You can't get the wood you know..."
Er, not read it for a while though, so I can't remember exact details.
Plus, this may just be wanting to find references when they aren't
there, but...
Ying tong iddle i po,
Edwin.
--
Edwin Brady - http://www.dur.ac.uk/e.c.brady/
- "Yes, but has it got wings?"
Eric Jarvis
wrote...
Python was often clever...deliberately...I'm not saying it isn't
possible to try to be clever and funny at the same time...but
Spike Milligna had that transcendent thing where he could be
extremely stupid and funny whilst simultaneously extraordinarily
wise...it sinks into ones mind at a much deeper level
--
Eric Jarvis
BI Online
http://www.befrienders.org
Stevie D
I'm probably not *the* biggest Goon fan ever [1] but I do have at least
about fifty episodes on tape, some of which I can almost recite OTTOMH
[2], and I've hardly noticed any references in the first 25 DW books or
the first hundred pages of the 26th.
I don't know why ... except that Pterry mainly parodies stuff that is
intended as serious, AFAICT, and short of simply naming a DW character
after a Goon, which would be a little bit tacky and pointless [3], I
can't think there are that many references he could bring in that many
people would get.
[1] In fact at a measly 5'10" I can almost guarantee that to be the case
[2] Don't worry, I'm scared by that too.
[3] Unless there was a good reason for it. cf The clockmaker in ToT.
--
You can't make a carburettor out of pigeons. It's amazing what you learn
in a Philosophy degree.
Sherilyn
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <slrn9erm...@pegasus.sherilyn.org.uk>, Sherilyn
><6...@sherilyn.org.uk> writes
>>
>>Some of Pratchett is vaguely similar to the Goons humour, particularly
>>the footnotes. For instance, the counting pines that evolve to
>>advertise their age, and end up being harvested for house numbers.
>
>I think it's truer to say that the Goons had an effect on British humour
>that makes the Pythons look weedy in comparison. But they were on
>radio, ie, didn't really exist.
I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
[...]
David Chapman
> In Message-ID <CSxp2XAM...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
Never, *ever* say that on AFP, Sherilyn. You could say you
were probably the only person on AFP who has an in-depth
knowledge of Kazakhstani cow-breeding methods and six voices
would cry "No you're not!"
I've seen the Tellygoons, so I have.
Sherilyn
David Chapman <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
>"Sherilyn" <6...@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message news:slrn9etm...@pegasus.sherilyn.org.uk...
>> In Message-ID <CSxp2XAM...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
>
>> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
>> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
>> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
>
>Never, *ever* say that on AFP, Sherilyn. You could say you
>were probably the only person on AFP who has an in-depth
>knowledge of Kazakhstani cow-breeding methods and six voices
>would cry "No you're not!"
>
>I've seen the Tellygoons, so I have.
And I've been around the block too many times to say I'm
probably the _only_ person... ;)
I think I can safely assume that the majority of the group's
readership was born some time after that show was aired. Live
dangerously, that's what I say.
Andy Davison
>Half the time, watching Python, you were mildly embarrassed at how dumb
>some of the sketches were, and how badly they ended or, mostly, faded
>away (just like the offensively stupid ending of Holy Grail). The Goons
>were consistently better.
The two extant shows from the 2nd series (the first called 'The Goon
Show') are woeful compared to some of the later ones. When Michael
Bentine left it got better partly because then the whole show story
format evolved and possibly I just don't like Osric Pureheart. That
said, some of the later ones were very loose at the seems and ended
very lamely. The Goons seemed to be having more fun themselves than
the audience. Series 5&6, while Peter Eton was the producer, the
Goons did their most consistent stuff.
MegaMole
<webm...@befrienders.org> writes
>
>Python was often clever...deliberately...I'm not saying it isn't
>possible to try to be clever and funny at the same time...but
>Spike Milligna had that transcendent thing where he could be
>extremely stupid and funny whilst simultaneously extraordinarily
>wise...it sinks into ones mind at a much deeper level
>
Milligna (in Q as well as the Goons) and to earlier efforts by some of
the Pythons in places like TW3.
And, as yer man Pratchett has said, we only remember the moments of
stunning inspiration. Not the (often 20) minutes of dreck we had to
wade through to get there.
How many people know that the parrot sketch as originally written
featured a toaster?
--
* MegaMole, The Official Enrico Basilica : Chocolate rix in thy tum *
* http://www.countertenor.demon.co.uk/index.html Filks, Liff, Stuff *
mo...@lspace.org mo...@music.slut.org.uk fi...@countertenor.demon.co.uk
"Listen! Lyf is gude, And thou art welbiloved and frended..." DQ 627
Terry Pratchett
<andy.d...@btinternet.com> writes
>The two extant shows from the 2nd series (the first called 'The Goon
>Show') are woeful compared to some of the later ones. When Michael
>Bentine left it got better partly because then the whole show story
>format evolved and possibly I just don't like Osric Pureheart. That
>said, some of the later ones were very loose at the seems and ended
>very lamely. The Goons seemed to be having more fun themselves than
>the audience. Series 5&6, while Peter Eton was the producer, the
>Goons did their most consistent stuff.
Your enjoyment may vary, of course, and pretty much the same general
statements could be made about Python. But I'd definitely say that the
Goons were more influential, if only because they influenced so many
later comedy writers. Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
both!)
--
Terry Pratchett
Manic Piranha Fish
>>>
> > [ssniiiiiiip]
> >
> > Some of Pratchett is vaguely similar to the Goons humour, particularly
> > the footnotes. For instance, the counting pines that evolve to
> > advertise their age, and end up being harvested for house numbers.
>
> Not to mention the resonance between Dibbler's fly-by-night schemes and
> those of Grytpype-Thynne. Persuading someone not only to drink Loch
> Lomond but to pay sixpence a glass for the privilege, indeed.
>
Part of the Goon show magic was developing the characters - you got to know
and love Bluebottle, Eccles, Moriaty, Bloodknock and the rest and you knew
how they'd react in a given situation. The more you heard the shows the
more
you hear the jokes and the comedies and the ideas behind them all (hey -
even I can get some of the topical jokes and this is 40 years later). This
is
like rereading the DW novels over again and discovering gems and genius
where you didn't see them before.
The Goons did lots of paradies on history eg The Hiistories of Pliny the
Younger,
but they also did paradies on legends and novels eg the Phantom Batter
Pudding
Hurler of Bexley on Heath, the Christmas radio pantomime of Robin Hood
[which is where
'tie him to a stick of celery' comes from]. A lot of the comedy had dark
overtones to
post-war life in Britain, particularly rationing and censorship,
but the basic premise is to send up and explore everyday angsts of life;
and I think that is one of the core ideas of Terry's books - find a theme
(or six) and
explore it using paradies of our own lives, legends, histories or fantasies.
On saying
that, many of Terry's books become very morally centered (which was not the
intention
of the Goons I would think).
Of course - that's just my opinion, whether you think that is worth the salt
in a bag of
salt'n'shake :)
Cheers, and hello btw
the Manic Piranha
-------------------------------------------------
No Man is an Island, but a few have High Walls
Andy Davison
<MPG.1558b1a6...@news.cwcom.net>, Eric Jarvis
<webm...@befrienders.org> wrote:
>Python was often clever...deliberately...I'm not saying it isn't
>possible to try to be clever and funny at the same time...but
>Spike Milligna had that transcendent thing where he could be
>extremely stupid and funny whilst simultaneously extraordinarily
>wise...it sinks into ones mind at a much deeper level
Milligna has a talent for taking logic round in circles if you see
what I mean. The 'what time is it, Eccles?' bit from 'The Mysterious
Punch-up-the-Conker' is a good example where Eccles has 8 o'clock
written on a piece of paper so he can show it to people if they ask
him the time. Of course, if it _isn't_ 8 o'clock he won't show it to
them but he knows when it _is_ 8 o'clock because he has it written on
a piece of paper.
the_peanut_gallery
> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
Sister mine!
--
Rose Humphrey
Sherilyn
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>Your enjoyment may vary, of course, and pretty much the same general
>statements could be made about Python. But I'd definitely say that the
>Goons were more influential, if only because they influenced so many
>later comedy writers. Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
>personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
>both!)
I was a little too young for that (or possibly just the right
age). Didn't he have the Television Centre invaded by daleks?
He also used to have a very good special effects sequence with
scale models.
Sherilyn
You're were right!
No more curried eggs for me.
Suzi
6...@sherilyn.org.uk wibbled...
> In Message-ID <xx$rubB6o...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
> Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
> >Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
> >personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
> >both!)
>
> He also used to have a very good special effects sequence with
> scale models.
Wasn't that part of Michael Bentine's "Potty Time" series on ITV?
Suzi
Andy Davison
<xx$rubB6o...@unseen.demon.co.uk>, Terry Pratchett
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Your enjoyment may vary, of course, and pretty much the same general
>statements could be made about Python. But I'd definitely say that the
>Goons were more influential, if only because they influenced so many
>later comedy writers. Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
>personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
>both!)
I fully agree regarding MP. I only vaguely remember bits of Square
World and I have to admit the bits I remember were very very good
(British and German troops fighting with brass band instruments
springs to mind) but I really prefer radio comedy where you have to
supply the 'look' of the characters, scenery and action and then
someone says something which makes you realise that you have been
imagining it differently to what is actually going on. Radio and the
written word can do this. Once pictures become involved I find the
comedy diluted a bit. Obviously some comedy would only work in
pictures - slapstick for example - but you only have to look at
current tv or Hollywood 'comedy' to see how easy it is for the makers
to cop out
Paul Andinach
> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
What *was* the Tellygoons?
Paul
--
The Pink Pedanther
Mark Datko
Paul Andinach <pand...@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.21.010502...@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au...
A puppet 'version' of The Goons, a B&W TV series of
the early sxities :
Googling reveals
http://www.telegoons.org/history.htm
HTH
Hippo (Mark Datko)
--
"History needs shepherds not Butchers"
Mark Datko
> In Message-ID <teu3bh6...@corp.supernews.com>,
> David Chapman <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
> >"Sherilyn" <6...@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn9etm...@pegasus.sherilyn.org.uk...
> >> In Message-ID <CSxp2XAM...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
> >
> >> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
> >> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
> =======================
> >> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
> >
> >Never, *ever* say that on AFP, Sherilyn. You could say you
> >were probably the only person on AFP who has an in-depth
> ========================
> >knowledge of Kazakhstani cow-breeding methods and six voices
> >would cry "No you're not!"
Ahhh, but is anybody here still getting via snail mail, the
wonderful "Isle of Arran Shoemakers Monthly" ;)
hippo (Mark Datko)
Sherilyn
Mark Datko
> In Message-ID <MPG.155949ad5...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>,
> Suzi <Su...@lspace.org> wrote:
> >In article <slrn9eubr...@pegasus.sherilyn.org.uk>,
> >6...@sherilyn.org.uk wibbled...
> >> In Message-ID <xx$rubB6o...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
> >> Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >[Snip]
> >> >Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
> >> >personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
> >> >both!)
> >>
> >[Snip]
> >> He also used to have a very good special effects sequence with
> >> scale models.
> >
> >Wasn't that part of Michael Bentine's "Potty Time" series on ITV?
> >
> Possibly, but I never watched Potty Time.
In one of the early IASqW shows, when the 'concrete doughnut'
bbc tv centre in west London had only recently been completed,
Michael Bentine blew up a very convincing model of the centre.
Afterwords, he apparently received an official memo of reprimand
from the higher echelons saying that 'the bbc tv centre should not
be used for purposes of humour or entertainment'
Hippo (Mark Datko)
--
Terry Pratchett
<ma...@datko.org.uk> writes
>A puppet 'version' of The Goons, a B&W TV series of
>the early sxities :
>
>Googling reveals
>http://www.telegoons.org/history.htm
>
>
Spitting Image.
--
Terry Pratchett
Tic-tac-toe
>
>> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
>> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
>> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
>
>What *was* the Tellygoons?
>
>Paul
drawing animations of the characters.
(Incidentally animated by Oliver Postgate, who did Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss).
Claire
Stevie D
> Shortly followed by a complaint of "You can't get the wood you know..."
Dammit, I knew there must have been one somewhere!
I even remember reading the APF note on that one, now you come to
mention it.
Sherilyn
Tic-tac-toe <tict...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
>>> comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
>>> reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
>>
>>What *was* the Tellygoons?
>>
>>Paul
>A TV version of the goon show, with strange little wobbly black/white line
>drawing animations of the characters.
I don't recall that. The version I saw had, as Terry also recalls,
Spitting Image-style puppetry. The episode with the dreaded
lurgy gave me nightmares, as I was rather too young to take it
as entertainment.
>
>(Incidentally animated by Oliver Postgate, who did Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss).
>
>Claire
>
>
phil...@see.signature.uk
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Your enjoyment may vary, of course, and pretty much the same general
>statements could be made about Python. But I'd definitely say that the
>Goons were more influential, if only because they influenced so many
>later comedy writers. Python was 'Grandson of Goons' (although
>personally I'd rate Bentine's "It's A Square World" series higher than
>both!)
And I had a great fondness for 'Potty Time', especially the minature
battles.
Philippa, Barbarian houri!
'I was Death! Death on a horse!' - Methos, Highlander
'Dere c'n onlie be whin t'ousand!' - Pterry, CJ
Edwin Brady
> Edwin Brady wrote:
>
> > Shortly followed by a complaint of "You can't get the wood you know..."
>
> Dammit, I knew there must have been one somewhere!
>
> I even remember reading the APF note on that one, now you come to
> mention it.
Hmmm... I looked in the APF to see if it was mentioned, but apparently
not...
Edwin.
--
Edwin Brady - http://www.dur.ac.uk/e.c.brady/
- "Information. Information! INFORMATION!"
the_peanut_gallery
IIRC, "Square World" had scale models without puppets of any kind: there
were wonderful invisible creatures that spoke and moved around, but you
could only see their footsteps in the sand and, of course, the havoc
they created in Bentine's vicinity.
The Potties were visible, though no less chaotic. I used to skive off
Uni to watch it, oh happy days.
--
Rose Humphrey
Sherilyn
the_peanut_gallery <the_peanu...@spamcop.net> wrote:
[...]
>
>IIRC, "Square World" had scale models without puppets of any kind: there
>were wonderful invisible creatures that spoke and moved around, but you
>could only see their footsteps in the sand and, of course, the havoc
>they created in Bentine's vicinity.
Those were the guys!
>
>The Potties were visible, though no less chaotic. I used to skive off
>Uni to watch it, oh happy days.
I didn't watch it. The name made it sound a little too "young" for
me.
Andy Davison
<slrn9etm...@pegasus.sherilyn.org.uk>, 6...@sherilyn.org.uk
(Sherilyn) wrote:
>I'm sure they influenced comic writing, but I didn't find their
>comedy particularly accessible, and I'm probably one of the few
>reading this thread who remembers the Tellygoons.
The Telegoons was adapted from Goon Show scripts by Maurice
Wiltshire[1] basically by cutting out a lot of the more risque and
obscure jokes first and then trimming the story down to 15 minutes. It
was aimed at a younger audience so comments like "your turn in the
barrel" and "you've done me a power of good" wouldn't be expected to
be understood. If you bowdlerise anything you can lose a lot of the
feel of the original. The Telegoons didn't just lose the feel, it
buried it and burnt the map.
[1] MW co-wrote some of the original Goon Show scripts (sometimes
without Milligna getting a credit). He was good at it and perhaps
should have made a better job of the Telegoons. Perhaps the
constraints were too great.
Andy Davison
>A TV version of the goon show, with strange little wobbly black/white line
>drawing animations of the characters.
>
>(Incidentally animated by Oliver Postgate, who did Ivor the Engine and Bagpuss).
They were puppets designed by Ralph Young. The programmes were made by
Grosvenor Films for the BBC.
David Chapman
Which is rather reminiscent of Lewis Carroll's answer to a certain question
he received when teaching mathematics. Having just shown why a clock that
is stopped at 12 o'clock is more accurate than a clock which gains 15 minutes
a day, one of his students pointed out that you could at least predict when the
clock gaining the time was right. Had he left it at that, he would probably have
got away with it, but instead he tried to gild the lily and asked how Carroll
could tell when his stopped clock was correct. Carroll replied, "Simplicity itself.
Watch the clock very closely, and at the *precise* moment it is right, it will be
12 o'clock."
--
"Would you say your songs are about liquor,
women, drugs and killing, for the most part?"
"Yep."