A'TUIN
Pieter Dumon
Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid,
but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin" ???????
--
########################################
# #
# Pieter Dumon #
# Bosduivestraat 30 Delvauxstraat 19 #
# 8450 Bredene 9000 Gent #
# Belgium #
# Pieter...@rug.ac.be #
# #
# http://studwww.rug.ac.be/~pdumon #
########################################
Jonathan Hoey
Barasifam wrote...
> (Pieter Dumon) writes:
> >Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid, but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin"
???????
How about "ah-to-een"?
--
Jonathan
Michael S. Tumilty
Alex Nolan wrote in message <346A42...@smtphost.dur.ac.uk>...
>Jonathan Hoey contributed:
>My version is 'ah-twan', but I'm weird, so that's OK.
I just say 'ah-to-in', but then again I pronounced 'Brutha'
like 'brew-thah' for the better part of a year.
-Erin
Spidersoft Enterprises
: >> > (Pieter Dumon) writes:
: >> > >Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid, but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin"
: >> ???????
PTB.
--
======= j380...@ironbark.latrobe.bendigo.edu.au ====================
| Psycho Teddy Bear | SNH SNH SNH SNH! |
|Also known as Damian Perry | - Death of Rats. Discworld. |
== www: http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~j3802123 ============
Dave 'The Lard Man'
Barasifam wrote...
> Pieter Dumon writes:
>
> >Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid, but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin"
>
Bless you.
--
The Lard Man
stu...@nottingham.ac.uk
>> >Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid, but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin"
???????
>> I'd pronounce it 'eh-chew-in', anyone else?
>I'd go for 'A-two-in.'
I always thought it was Ah-Tu-in
hmm that looks a bit like how its spelt, oh well
o dai wai
Great A'Tuin is a chelonian and is therefore "Great At Chewin'".
dave (psst: info on tagging in the FAQs at http://www.lspace.org/)
Tim Bagot
This, with the recent digressions into phonetics[1], got me thinking: Why
not include pronunciations (where they are not obvious) in the next
edition of the DWC? This shouldn't be particularly difficult[2], and would
be very useful.
Tim Bagot
[1] See "Veni, Vidi, Vici" thread
[2] in most cases, one notable exception being the demon Granny Weatherwax
summons[3] :-)
[3] Sorry, I can't remember its name and I don't have my books to hand
--
"'One advantage of horses ... is that they very seldom explode'" - Jingo
- ----- Begin AFPCodeblock -----------
AFP Code 1.1 AM/E/C>$ d-@ s:-- a18 UP R- F- h- !P OSNS+++:++ ?C M-- pp--- L c+
B Cn- PT--- Pu74@- 5(-) X- e+>+++(++++) !r y?
- ------ End AFPCodeblock ------------
Barasifam
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.971113...@sable.ox.ac.uk>, Tim
Bagot <kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>
>This, with the recent digressions into phonetics[1], got me thinking: Why
>not include pronunciations (where they are not obvious) in the next
>edition of the DWC? This shouldn't be particularly difficult[2], and would
>be very useful.
Would PTerry have the one and only say[1], or would we have_a_debate on
AFP to decide on it? ;-)
Leo 'Barium' Barasi
[1] One man, one vote?
Angela MacKellar
Pieter Dumon <pdu...@eduserv1.rug.ac.be> wrote in article
<64cj35$k29$1...@inf6serv.rug.ac.be>...
:
: Perhaps, you'll think it's stupid,
: but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin" ???????
I say it as "A Two In", but perhaps only A'Tuin really knows!
--
Angela MacKellar
anyt...@anggab.enta.net
L.I. Endell
Tim Bagot (kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
: This, with the recent digressions into phonetics[1], got me thinking: Why
: not include pronunciations (where they are not obvious) in the next
: edition of the DWC? This shouldn't be particularly difficult[2], and would
: be very useful.
Ah, but do you want proper phoetic transcriptions of pronunciations or
something along the lines of "Rincewind - rhymes with 'mince pinned' "? If
the former then we're going to have to stick an International Phonetic
Alphabet chart at the front (or back) for reference.
Former or latter, bags I get to record Pterry saying all the words and
then transcribe them!
Linz
--
Lindsay Endell li...@cam.ac.uk & li...@earthling.net
Conference Administrator, Trinity Hall, Cambridge CB2 1TJ
Do I come here often? TOGG Motto
Who would you like to be related to today?
the squigger of Oz
> > ???????
> >
> > >I'd go for 'A-two-in.'
> > I always thought it was Ah-Tu-in
> > hmm that looks a bit like how its spelt, oh well
> >
>
> not include pronunciations (where they are not obvious) in the next
> edition of the DWC? This shouldn't be particularly difficult[2], and would
> be very useful.
>
>
> [1] See "Veni, Vidi, Vici" thread
>
> [2] in most cases, one notable exception being the demon Granny Weatherwax
> summons[3] :-)
>
> [3] Sorry, I can't remember its name and I don't have my books to hand
>
> --
> "'One advantage of horses ... is that they very seldom explode'" - Jingo
>
> - ----- Begin AFPCodeblock -----------
> AFP Code 1.1 AM/E/C>$ d-@ s:-- a18 UP R- F- h- !P OSNS+++:++ ?C M-- pp--- L c+
> B Cn- PT--- Pu74@- 5(-) X- e+>+++(++++) !r y?
> - ------ End AFPCodeblock ------------
I've always thought Ay-tyoo-win, but now that I REALLY think, it is
possibly Ay-CLICK-tyoo-win - that is what that damned apostrophe is for,
isn't it - to signify the tongue click used by many languages? If it's
not, then could someone please tell me what the hell all those authors
who use it think it means? Do they just throw it in to make someone
look exotic?
squigger hops again
Brian Howlett
In message <64dpu7$1hn$2...@news.latrobe.edu.au>
j380...@indye.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au (Spidersoft Enterprises)
wrote:
[snip]
> Vote me one on Ah t-YOU-in
>
Gesundheit!
--
Brian Howlett
-----------------------
D.N.A. (Do Not Analyse)
Tim Bagot
On 14 Nov 1997, L.I. Endell wrote:
> Tim Bagot (kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
>
> : This, with the recent digressions into phonetics[1], got me thinking: Why
> : not include pronunciations (where they are not obvious) in the next
> : edition of the DWC? This shouldn't be particularly difficult[2], and would
> : be very useful.
>
> Ah, but do you want proper phoetic transcriptions of pronunciations or
> something along the lines of "Rincewind - rhymes with 'mince pinned' "? If
> the former then we're going to have to stick an International Phonetic
> Alphabet chart at the front (or back) for reference.
Well, we probably wouldn't need the _whole_ IPA chart - just the sounds
used in English (and maybe one or two others to be really accurate about
some of the names in e.g. Jingo). Judging from my dictionary, this could
be achieved in a couple of paragraphs on one of the introductory pages.
> Former or latter, bags I get to record Pterry saying all the words and
> then transcribe them!
>
> Linz
Or he could decide to record himself (me not feeling the slightest bit
annoyed that I didn't think of it first, naturally :-)); still, I suppose
he might agree... Of course, someone would have to mention the subject to
him, unless he happens to read this thread.
Tim Bagot
--
"'One advantage of horses ... is that they very seldom explode'" - Jingo
AFP Code 1.1 AM/E/C>$ d-@ s:-- a18 UP+ R- F++ h- !P OSNS+++:++ ?C M-- pp--- L
c+ B+ Cn- PT--- Pu74@- 5(-) X- MT? e+>+++(++++) !r y? end
Margaret Tarbet
At on Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:06:34 +1100 in alt.fan.pratchett,
the squigger of Oz <squiggerC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've always thought Ay-tyoo-win, but now that I REALLY think, it is
> possibly Ay-CLICK-tyoo-win - that is what that damned apostrophe is for,
> isn't it - to signify the tongue click used by many languages? If it's
> not, then could someone please tell me what the hell all those authors
> who use it think it means? Do they just throw it in to make someone
> look exotic?
Just for effect? Probably. The click is represented by the !, at
least when xlitting !Kung, who are the ones most famous for it. (It
may be used for Xosa, too, but someone from .za will have to speak
to that). As to the apostrophe, it's used to symbolise the glottal
stop in some languages, and when xlitting from cyrillic the "soft
sign" (in the scheme i learned, at least).
---------------------------------------------------------------
Margaret Tarbet / tar...@swaa.com / Cambridge Massachusetts USA
---------------------------------------------------------------
"You can't trust folk songs. They always sneak up on you."
Granny Weatherwax, in _Witches Abroad_
Marian Rosenberg
<SNIP>
> I've always thought Ay-tyoo-win, but now that I REALLY think, it is
> possibly Ay-CLICK-tyoo-win - that is what that damned apostrophe is for,
> isn't it - to signify the tongue click used by many languages? If it's
> not, then could someone please tell me what the hell all those authors
> who use it think it means? Do they just throw it in to make someone
> look exotic?
The rpoper way to show a tongue or throat click is with the ` key, or
the ! key. Such as the !kung people of the kali`harii desert or Miriam
Ma!Kepba (someone my da knows). Odder clicks are used by different
symbols but those are the two most common.
Why on earth do I know these things? I can just think for a second and
suddenly this peice of esoterica floats into my brain. I've got to stop
reading encyclopedias.
Anthony W. Youngman
In article <346B0F...@bangor.ac.uk>, "R.O.Jones"
<eeu...@bangor.ac.uk> writes
>Alex Nolan wrote:
>>
>> Jonathan Hoey contributed:
>> > Barasifam wrote...
>> > > (Pieter Dumon) writes:
>> > ???????
>> > > I'd pronounce it 'eh-chew-in', anyone else?
>> My version is 'ah-twan', but I'm weird, so that's OK.
Me? it's a-tchu-in, but I think that that's because Russian has the
letter Tch, as in Tchaikovskii. Ty just seems to become Tch unless I
think hard about what I'm saying.
--
Anthony W. Youngman
wol at thewolery d demon d co d uk | The L-Space Web- http://www.lspace.org
Ask Christopher Robin where it is. | The Ultimate Terry Pratchett fan site!
If replying by e-mail please mail wol.
Anything else may get missed amongst the spam.
the squigger of Oz
Margaret Tarbet wrote:
>
> At on Sat, 15 Nov 1997 11:06:34 +1100 in alt.fan.pratchett,
> the squigger of Oz <squiggerC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > possibly Ay-CLICK-tyoo-win - that is what that damned apostrophe is for,
> > isn't it - to signify the tongue click used by many languages? If it's
> > not, then could someone please tell me what the hell all those authors
> > who use it think it means? Do they just throw it in to make someone
> > look exotic?
>
> least when xlitting !Kung, who are the ones most famous for it. (It
> may be used for Xosa, too, but someone from .za will have to speak
> to that). As to the apostrophe, it's used to symbolise the glottal
> stop in some languages, and when xlitting from cyrillic the "soft
> sign" (in the scheme i learned, at least).
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Margaret Tarbet / tar...@swaa.com / Cambridge Massachusetts USA
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> "You can't trust folk songs. They always sneak up on you."
> Granny Weatherwax, in _Witches Abroad_
And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
something actually SOUNDS like.
squigger hops again
the squigger of Oz
Angela MacKellar wrote:
>
> Pieter Dumon <pdu...@eduserv1.rug.ac.be> wrote in article
> <64cj35$k29$1...@inf6serv.rug.ac.be>...
> :
> : but how do you pronounce "A'Tuin" ???????
>
> --
> Angela MacKellar
> anyt...@anggab.enta.net
How about we ask Terry himself - surely HE knows how the damned thing is
pronounced?
So, Terry, just how is A'Tuin pronounced, and what do you intend that
apostrophe to signify? 'Cos it's driving me mad...
squigger hops again
Margaret Tarbet
At on Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:47:37 +1100 in alt.fan.pratchett,
A good example is "water". The "standard" US pronunciation is
(roughly) "wauter", and the "standard" UK "wahtar". The glottal
stop would cause the t to be transformed into a very tiny pause (the
stop) often but not always with a sort of audible gulp in it (the
glottal part), "wau'er", "wah'ar". It's caused by momentary
stoppage of air while speaking, Listen to some Glesga scots. Or for
that matter some folk from New York City, USA. I can't recall any
regional use of the stop in Oz, but there might be many; my
experience is limited.
L.I. Endell
k> <Pine.OSF.3.96.971115...@sable.ox.ac.uk>:
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Distribution:
Tim Bagot (kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
: On 14 Nov 1997, L.I. Endell wrote:
: > Former or latter, bags I get to record Pterry saying all the words and
: > then transcribe them!
: >
: Or he could decide to record himself (me not feeling the slightest bit
: annoyed that I didn't think of it first, naturally :-)); still, I suppose
: he might agree... Of course, someone would have to mention the subject to
: him, unless he happens to read this thread.
Ah, but then it is difficult to spot little things like lip rounding,
spreading and so on!
Tom Walmsley
Anthony W. Youngman <w...@thewolery.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<y1ohL5Ao...@thewolery.demon.co.uk>...
<SNIP>
> Me? it's a-tchu-in, but I think that that's because Russian has the
> letter Tch, as in Tchaikovskii. Ty just seems to become Tch unless I
> think hard about what I'm saying.
I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y without
the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between Ch and
Sh. Oh and where's the ty in A'tuin? And finally I pronounce it Ah-too-wan.
--
Integral one over cabin . dcabin=beach hut (bad mathematical joke)
Marian Rosenberg
the squigger of Oz wrote:
>
I don't know what the bearded one will answer but when I write short
stories I often am not really sure what the best way of pronouncing the
name is. I just like the way it looks on screen, let the people who
read it figure out.
Kevin Hackett
Tom Walmsley <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote in article
<01bcf457$1a9a8e80$LocalHost@default>...
>
>
> I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y
without
> the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between Ch
and
> Sh. Oh and where's the ty in A'tuin? And finally I pronounce it
Ah-too-wan.
>
A 'y' without the tail? 'v' I think you'll find. :-)
BTW, Don't the cartoons pronounce A'tuin as Ah too-in? Whatever it is, I'd
assume it's the definitive version, as Terry didn't complain.
Half dumb, half right. All most.
Cheers,
Kevin
Margaret Tarbet
At on 18 Nov 1997 12:05:55 GMT in alt.fan.pratchett,
"Kevin Hackett" <ke...@sci.co.uk> wrote:
> Tom Walmsley <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote in article
> <01bcf457$1a9a8e80$LocalHost@default>...
> > I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y
> without
> > the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between Ch
> and
> > Sh.
> A 'y' without the tail? 'v' I think you'll find. :-)
<uchitel'nitsa>
No, no, you mean :-) the one that looks an upside-down (rotated, not
flopped) 'h' . The chah. Pronounced ch except in certain special
cases such as konechno ("of course") where it's pronounced more like
sh (koneshno) by most speakers.
</uchitel'nitsa>
---------------------------------------------------------------
Margaret Tarbet / tar...@swaa.com / Cambridge Massachusetts USA
---------------------------------------------------------------
How do you make a banjo picker's eyes sparkle?
Shine a light in her ear.
Stuart Lavin
The message <346FBE...@hotmail.com>
from the squigger of Oz <squiggerC...@hotmail.com> contains
these words:
> And what's the glottal stop sound like?
I'm going t' pub.
^^
Marian Rosenberg
Kevin Hackett wrote:
>
> Tom Walmsley <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote in article
> <01bcf457$1a9a8e80$LocalHost@default>...
> >
> >
> > I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y
> without
> > the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between Ch
> and
> Ah-too-wan.
> >
>
It has part of the tail . . .
| |
| |
| |
|_______|_
\
sorta like that only the tiny tail is teenier
PostMaster
In the news article <3472259f...@news.tiac.net> about "[R] Re:
A'TUIN" dated 17 Nov 1997, tar...@swaa.com (Margaret Tarbet) said ...
> At on Mon, 17 Nov 1997 14:47:37 +1100 in alt.fan.pratchett,
> the squigger of Oz <squiggerC...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
> > about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
> > something actually SOUNDS like.
>
> A good example is "water". The "standard" US pronunciation is
> (roughly) "wauter", and the "standard" UK "wahtar".
Oh 'eck! I'd better change me pronunciation!
Round these parts (North London) it tends to be pronounced "waw'er",
complete with glottal stop, as in the Londonish phrase, "The waw'er in
Majaw'a don't taste like what it ough'a" with the words "water", "Majorca"
and "ought to" all rhyme and all contain the glottal stop. Oh yes, the
"j" in "Majorca" is pronnounced as "j" and not "y".
--
-----Cyclops
Don't send post to Marvin - he can't read it!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darin Johnson
Well, I haven't seen it come across, but I always pronounce it
mentally as "ah-tween". "Ah-twin" would be good too.
My thinking is that its "ah-too-een", and when prounced quickly the
oo-ee becomes a dipthong to English speaking ears (in the same way
that the Japanese "hai" is theoretically two syllables, but English
speakers hear only one).
I was assuming that the ' was not a glottal stop (I was never good at
those, especially in those languages where they're between consonants).
But it would be easy to pronounce as ah'tween.
It depends upon if spelling is phonetic or not. Most English
spellings are not. Some languages are very precise in spelling, while
others have arbitrary spellings when native sounds are converted to
Roman letters (ie, Chinese spelled with only roman letters). I
suspect that A'Tuin is a name discovered on some ancient scrolls or
ruins, and is in a dead or unknown language, and is thus just a
transliteration of the original alphabet into the local dialect, done
by some priest or scribe.
--
Darin Johnson
da...@usa.net.delete_me
Tom Walmsley
Margaret Tarbet <tar...@swaa.com> wrote in article
<34718b0f...@news.tiac.net>...
> At on 18 Nov 1997 12:05:55 GMT in alt.fan.pratchett,
> "Kevin Hackett" <ke...@sci.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Tom Walmsley <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote in article
> > <01bcf457$1a9a8e80$LocalHost@default>...
> > > I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y
> > without
> > > the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between
Ch
> > and
> > > Sh.
>
> > A 'y' without the tail? 'v' I think you'll find. :-)
>
> <uchitel'nitsa>
> No, no, you mean :-) the one that looks an upside-down (rotated, not
> flopped) 'h' . The chah. Pronounced ch except in certain special
> cases such as konechno ("of course") where it's pronounced more like
> sh (koneshno) by most speakers.
> </uchitel'nitsa>
<uchel'nik>[3]
Yes that's exactly the one I mean. Like a 'u' with a vertical line down
from the right hand line :-) I always said it konechno mind. Maybe a better
example would be shto[1] although that sounds a bit like sto "cmo"[2][3]
sometimes but I can't see anyone pronouncing it chto.
</uchel'nik>
[1] What[3]
[2] One Hundred[3]
[3] cmo is the Cyrillic[4]
[4] More or less
[5] I have got all this right haven't I?[6]
[6] Just my Russian's a bit rusty[7]
[7] Shouldn't be though, I did the GCSE last year[8]
[8] And got an A* too.
--
Tom Walmsley
the squigger of Oz
L.I. Endell wrote:
>
> 6e6dd4....@news.tiac.net> <346FBE...@hotmail.com>:
> Organization: University of Cambridge, England
> Distribution:
>
>
> : And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
> : about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
> : something actually SOUNDS like.
>
> saying it. For instance, I say 'butter' - well, I don't, but I don't have
> the phonetic symbols. Some people don't pronounce the 't' sound but they
> *do* have a hard sound in the middle of the word. That's the glottal stop.
> Or indeed, the 'glo?al' stop, as it is also known.
>
> This has probably been no help whatsoever. Sorry...
>
> Linz
>
> --
> Lindsay Endell li...@cam.ac.uk & li...@earthling.net
> Conference Administrator, Trinity Hall, Cambridge CB2 1TJ
> Do I come here often? TOGG Motto
> Who would you like to be related to today?
Actually, that's brilliant - one of my all time great mysteries is
solved. But that makes A'Tuin impossible to say, doesn't it? Well, it
does for me, I damn near retched onto the keyboard just now trying to
pronounce that.
squigger hops again
conl...@mail.dec.com
I always pronounced the 'tuin part to rhyme with "doin'" [1]
Ciaran.
[1] Said in a Donegal accent, of course.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Ben Hutchings
In article <322080621...@cyclops.force9.co.uk>,
PostMaster <mar...@cyclops.force9.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>Oh 'eck! I'd better change me pronunciation!
>Round these parts (North London) it tends to be pronounced "waw'er",
>complete with glottal stop, as in the Londonish phrase, "The waw'er in
>Majaw'a don't taste like what it ough'a" with the words "water", "Majorca"
>and "ought to" all rhyme and all contain the glottal stop. Oh yes, the
>"j" in "Majorca" is pronnounced as "j" and not "y".
This pronunication is called Estuary English and has spread westward
from Essex over the last decade or so (I think), much to the dismay of
older commentators.
--
Ben Hutchings, M&CS student | Jay Miner Society website: http://www.jms.org/
email/finger m95...@ecs.ox.ac.uk | homepage http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0223/
Experience is what causes a person to make new mistakes instead of old ones.
M. Riosa
On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 23:32:20 +0000, Alec Cawley
<al...@cawley.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <346FBE...@hotmail.com>, the squigger of Oz <squiggerCUTT
>HIS...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
>>about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
>>something actually SOUNDS like.
>
>I always though that English didn't have a glottal stop, but a friend
>pointed out that with a Southern English Inner City accent, there is one
>in the middle of Peter "Pee'uh" - especially when shouted across a
>shopping centre.
After saying Pee'uh many, many times...I think that is more of a
palatial stop, or perhaps a palatial (palatal sp?) fricative...I was
taught that a glottal stop occurred farther back, approaching a "hard
g" in some dialects of english...
Michelena
who never got her alvelar fricatives correctly, so I cheat and use
dental ones...speech therapy, you gotta love it!
--
"Smile and remember, if the sky falls,
have clouds for breafast!"
patrick(But he nicked it from somebody)
Margaret Tarbet
At on Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:59:03 -0500 in alt.fan.pratchett,
Marian Rosenberg <book...@ibm.net> wrote:
> It has part of the tail . . .
>
> | |
> | |
> | |
> |_______|_
> \
> sorta like that only the tiny tail is teenier
<pedant>
I think you're trying to illustrate (my copy got messed up, so i
can't be sure) the "tseh" :
X X
X X
X X
X X
XXXXXXX
X
whereas the chah is the
X X
X X
XXXXXX
X
X
</pedant>
Anthony W. Youngman
In article <01bcf41a$7bcd2420$35a4...@kevh.sci.co.uk>, Kevin Hackett
<ke...@sci.co.uk> writes
>
>
>Tom Walmsley <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote in article
><01bcf457$1a9a8e80$LocalHost@default>...
>>
>>
>> I presume you're talking about the letter that looks a bit like a y
>without
>> the tail. I always thought that was pronounced like a cross between Ch
>and
>Ah-too-wan.
>>
boxy W. Sorry for not replying to your post, but I haven't received it
yet, although I have received this followup.
>
>A 'y' without the tail? 'v' I think you'll find. :-)
>
>assume it's the definitive version, as Terry didn't complain.
>
>Half dumb, half right. All most.
>
> Kevin
And I noticed elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned the letter
which looks like a U with the tick at the bottom. That's pronounced
"ts".
BTW I pronounce it "kanyeshno". Although I've now got the problem I'm
learning Russian at evening school, but with a Ukrainian girlfriend I
get confused between the alphabets which are almost identical, and the
words again so. But there are differences :-(
Margaret Tarbet
At on 18 Nov 1997 22:49:21 GMT in alt.fan.pratchett,
"Tom Walmsley" <t.wal...@lineone.net> wrote:
> <uchel'nik>[3]
uchel'nik? Chto znachit? Kazhetsya, chto togo slova nikogda ni
vidala, i znayu chto takzhe ego v slovare ne nashla.
>...Maybe a better
> example would be shto[1] although that sounds a bit like sto "cmo"[2][3]
> sometimes but I can't see anyone pronouncing it chto.
I have, a few times. Never isolated it completely tho my best guess
would be Petrograd(?) Sankt Petersburg(?) ...Leningrad-as-was, is
where i mean. But i agree chto is a good example of the chah being
pronounced midway between ch and sh. Canonically it's meant to be
pronounced shto, but i've too often heard it with that wee hitch in
it that signals the cht combination.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Margaret Tarbet / tar...@swaa.com / Cambridge Massachusetts USA
---------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Moody
In article <64ugn2$8cd$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, Ben Hutchings
<URL:mailto:worc...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> This pronunication is called Estuary English and has spread westward
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:-)
> from Essex over the last decade or so (I think), much to the dismay of
> older commentators.
Now I freely admit that I haven't interviewed any herrings lately, but I
surmise that, starting from Essex, there isn't really any other direction -
linguistically.
Whilst I _have_ observed the phenomoneon I recall occurrences that were much
earlier than you describe - these pre-effluvial examples were corrected by
those in authority (Miss Manning - form 1M) and a good thing (as I'm certain
you'll agree ) too.
Cheerio,
--
Derek Moody >>> derek...@ndirect.co.uk
Discworld Chronicle _Temporary_ URL http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~derek.moody/
Chris the Student
At the Cardiff signing yesterday, a few of the devout followers were discussing
the topic of Ponunciation, and dained to ask the great sage himself the
question that troubled our minds. On of our number, who was braver than most,
asked the following, and was replied thus by the great Pterry:-
Follower : How do you pronounce A'Tuin? I mean is it a-twin, or ah-two-in,
are-toon, or what?
Pterry : Yes
The sage then continued his signing and we asked no more
--
Chris the student
When I grow up I want to make my fortune
selling drugs to the innocent.
Adam Jones
Murky wrote:
> >"Intersections in Real Time."
> ... started to watch it.. Seems very chilling.
Put that copy of 1984 down, Mr Straczynski... (sp?)
> Gur "wbo bs jbex" vagreebtngbe, fvggvat qbja, trggvat bhg uvf
> fnaqjvpurf... chg zr va zvaq bs gur Dhvfvgvba.
The whole point behind that kind of interrogation, usually, is sensory
deprivation. The idea being to totally confuse a person's body and
mind until they'll break down in some way. The more intelligent a
person is, the worse they'll generally be affected by it, AFAIK.
In extreme cases, you will probably induce hallucinations and eventual
insanity.
The interrogator trying to portray himself as a friend is a useful
tactic - he's the only person the subject will see, so you want
the subject to focus on them. Besides, "just doing a job" is probably
just as much to help the inquisitor as anyone else - they need to
rationalise their actions to themselves.
This is probably all wrong, but hey...
--
Adam Jones (ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk) (http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~mauei/)
Phillip D. Evans
In article <34756D...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, Adam Jones
<ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
>Murky wrote:
>
>> >"Intersections in Real Time."
>> ... started to watch it.. Seems very chilling.
>
>Put that copy of 1984 down, Mr Straczynski... (sp?)
>
little room, somewhere outside THE DOOR where he made tea and there were
postcards from other interrogators on their holidays?
--
Phillip D. Evans
Alex Nolan
Phillip D. Evans wrote:
>
> In article <34756D...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, Adam Jones
> <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
> >Murky wrote:
> >
> >> >"Intersections in Real Time."
> >> ... started to watch it.. Seems very chilling.
> >
> >Put that copy of 1984 down, Mr Straczynski... (sp?)
> >
> It *was* very good.
Argghhh! I've got to wait 3 weeks before I can watch all the videos my
brother's been taping since I went to Uni (9 hours). Try not to torture
this poor soul too much!
--
bfg.
Angela MacKellar
In article <34756D...@csv.warwick.ac.uk>, Adam Jones
: > <ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk> writes
: > >Murky wrote:
: > >
: > >> >"Intersections in Real Time."
: > >> ... started to watch it.. Seems very chilling.
: > >
: > >Put that copy of 1984 down, Mr Straczynski... (sp?)
SC4 viewers are a week behind with B5 so please remember spoilers until a
week after. Thanks.
--
Angela MacKellar
DinkiPixie
anyt...@anggab.enta.net
Dave Barnes
In Afrikaans the word "tuin" (meaning "garden") is pronounced to rhyme with
"plane" and I've always said the word like this!
Do other South Africans pronounce it like this, perhaps?
Dave Seaward
--
email replies to thek...@hotmail.com
chris
In article <+BB5cGAm...@luther.demon.co.uk>, "Phillip D. Evans"
<Ph...@luther.demon.co.uk> writes
>It *was* very good. Did anyone else wonder if the interrogator had a
>little room, somewhere outside THE DOOR where he made tea and there were
>postcards from other interrogators on their holidays?
No, but I was wondering if he was wearing slippers (a la Grand Moff
Tarkin from Star Wars).
--
chris (pronounced with an invisible P)
I think, therefore I am, although I could just be a product of my deranged
imagination.
Gidjabolgo
Dave Seaward <mma...@iafrica.com> wrote:
> In Afrikaans the word "tuin" (meaning "garden") is pronounced to rhyme
with
> "plane" and I've always said the word like this!
A'tuin = attain?
Gidjabolgo
--
Gidjabolgo, further explained at http://hem2.passagen.se/gidjabol/
AFP Code 1.0 AC$ d+ s: a->+++ UP+ R F++ h- P- OSD--: C++ M-
pp--- L+ c-(+) B Cn:+ PT--- Pu64- 5 X+ MT+ e++ r+++ x++++ end
Margaret Tarbet
Missed this out, first time 'round.
In alt.fan.pratchett on Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:38:07 +0000,
"Anthony W. Youngman" <w...@thewolery.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I thought the cross between Ch and Sh was the Shch, which looks like a
>boxy W.
Closet: boxy W is the shah. Boxy-W-with-stubby-tail is the shch,
which in my book is the combination rather than a (hybrid) cross
>Although I've now got the problem I'm
>learning Russian at evening school, but with a Ukrainian girlfriend I
>get confused between the alphabets which are almost identical, and the
>words again so. But there are differences :-(
Well, not a lot really. Ukrainian has the latin i (but it looks a
small cap rather than the lowercase i used for clarity), and what's
spelt g is pronounced approximately h (hovorit' for govorit', e.g.)
but there isn't much else. Not like south-slav languages where
there's a lot of charset interbreeding.
Kevin Hackett
chris <ch...@warnco.com> wrote in article
<G88DCMAQ...@rat-cage.demon.co.uk>...
>
> chris (pronounced with an invisible P)
Does this mean you're crispy?
> I think, therefore I am, although I could just be a product of my
deranged
> imagination.
>
You think therefore you are what? Noone ever finishes that sentence. I
hate that.
Cheers,
Kevin
Gid Holyoake
Kevin Hackett wrote:
>
> You think therefore you are what? Noone ever finishes that sentence. I
> hate that.
>
Perhaps he means: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum.....
Gid
--
The Most Noble and Exalted Peculiar , Harem Master to Veiled Concubines
Guardian of the Sacred !!!!!'s , Defender of the Temple of AFPdoration
Click on http://www.lspace.org/ for the most FAQish Pratchett Website
AFP Code 1.1 ANL/AT d-- s+:+ a34+++ UP+ R+++ F++ h- P-- OSD: C+++
M pp+ L+ c B Cn:+ PT+++ Pu46- 5 X++ MT !e rp++++ y+++ end
Michael Hargreave Mawson
In article <3483432a...@news.lspace.org>, Topi Saavalainen
<tsaa...@levi.urova.fi> writes
>>Perhaps he means: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum.....
>
>am I think therefore"?
>
I think I think therefore I think I am.
Mind you, it ought to be Credo cogito ergo credo sum, but that would
spoil it...
--
Mike
shan chan
Michael Hargreave Mawson <mi...@hargreave-mawson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
--
This message was posted using the NewsSIEVE Filtering Agent
To learn more about this learning filtering Agent
have a look at http://jod.informatik.uni-bonn.de:8080/
Adam Jones
> This message was posted using the NewsSIEVE Filtering Agent
Now filters all text...
Tim Bagot
On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Topi Saavalainen wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 1997 18:08:49 +0000, Gid Holyoake
> <G...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Kevin Hackett wrote:
> >>
> >> You think therefore you are what? Noone ever finishes that sentence. I
> >> hate that.
> >>
> >
> >Perhaps he means: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum.....
>
> I've never studied Latin, but isn't this "I think I think I
> am I think therefore"?
I did study Latin a few years ago. That sentence is grammatically
incorrect and not terribly meaningful. It is probably meant to be
something like: "Cogito cogitare ergo cogito esse". (Translation: "I think
I think therefore I think I am" :-))
Unfortunately, cogito does not translate exactly to the English word
"think" - i.e. it can signify the process of thought, but cannot be
translated as "believe". A more accurate translation of the English
almost-translation given above would be "Credo cogitare ergo credo esse".
HTH
Tim Bagot
--
"'One advantage of horses ... is that they very seldom explode'" - Jingo
AFP Code 1.1 AM/E/C>$ d-@ s:--(-) a18 UP+ R- F++ h- !P OSNS+++:++ ?C M--
pp--- L c+ B+ Cn- PT--- Pu74@- 5(-) X- MT? e+>+++(++++) !r y? end
Tim Bagot
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Michael Hargreave Mawson wrote:
> In article <3483432a...@news.lspace.org>, Topi Saavalainen
> <tsaa...@levi.urova.fi> writes
> >>Perhaps he means: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum.....
> >
> >I've never studied Latin, but isn't this "I think I think I
> >am I think therefore"?
> >
> I think I think therefore I think I am.
>
> Mind you, it ought to be Credo cogito ergo credo sum, but that would
> spoil it...
Sorry, I didn't notice this reply and have also posted to this effect. But
a minor pedant on this one: the verb of an indefinite statement should be
in the infinitive.
Michael Hargreave Mawson
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.971202...@sable.ox.ac.uk>,
Tim Bagot <kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk> writes
>
>
>On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Michael Hargreave Mawson wrote:
>
>> In article <3483432a...@news.lspace.org>, Topi Saavalainen
>> <tsaa...@levi.urova.fi> writes
>> >>Perhaps he means: Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum.....
>> >
>> >I've never studied Latin, but isn't this "I think I think I
>> >am I think therefore"?
>> >
>> I think I think therefore I think I am.
>>
>> Mind you, it ought to be Credo cogito ergo credo sum, but that would
>> spoil it...
>
>Sorry, I didn't notice this reply and have also posted to this effect. But
>a minor pedant on this one: the verb of an indefinite statement should be
>in the infinitive.
>
present subjunctive, and gave up in disgust, leaving the verb in the
present indicative. Of course, I still can't remember whether it
should be "cogitare" or "cogitere" - the former I presume by reverse-
etymology from "cogitate," but I'm not sure. "Esse" would have been a
doddle in comaprison to "sim."
--
Mike
chris
In article <01bcfe41$93d265e0$35a4...@kevh.sci.co.uk>, Kevin Hackett
<ke...@sci.co.uk> writes
>chris <ch...@warnco.com> wrote in article
><G88DCMAQ...@rat-cage.demon.co.uk>...
>>
>> chris (pronounced with an invisible P)
>
>Does this mean you're crispy?
>
end.
>> I think, therefore I am, although I could just be a product of my
>deranged
>> imagination.
>>
>
>You think therefore you are what? Noone ever finishes that sentence. I
>hate that.
>
At the moment, I think therefore I am a teapot. But I could be imagining
it.
>Cheers,
> Kevin
Mine's a pint (without a p)
--
chris (pronounced with an invisible P)
chris
In article <3482FD...@netcomuk.co.uk>, Gid Holyoake
<G...@netcomuk.co.uk> writes
>Kevin Hackett wrote:
>>
>> You think therefore you are what? Noone ever finishes that sentence. I
>> hate that.
>>
>
>
>
I seriously doubt it. That ergo stuff is poisonous, and gives you
strange visions, especially when baked in bread....
I thought that sandwich tasted funny!
Tim Bagot
On 4 Dec 1997, SoenkeSylt wrote:
> >Tim Bagot
> >
> >"'One advantage of horses ... is that they very seldom explode'" - Jingo
>
> Would you all please kindly refrain from citing "Jingo" until it is better
> known or more widely distributed? I myself ordered a copy from a friend
> who studies in Cambridge ATM, but I haven't got it so far. I think, many
> non-British-Isleted AFPers might have similar problems.
>
> Or use SPOILERs... for my sake.
>
> Please!!!! I don't want to know half of the book before actually getting
> to read it.
Spoilers for sigs - sounds a bit excessive. (My bit doesn't even reveal
any important plot points.) Still, if that's what you want...
Meanwhile, I am about to disappear for about 6 weeks, so you should have
read Jingo by the time I come back.
BFN
Tim Bagot
***>>>>> SPOILER!!! <<<<<*** :-)
--
40
30
20
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
r...@greenend.org.uk
Tim Bagot <kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk> writes:
> Spoilers for sigs - sounds a bit excessive. (My bit doesn't even
> reveal any important plot points.) Still, if that's what you want...
You could choose a .sig which didn't have a spoiler in it? If you
think you're going to stay out of killfiles for long with a 40 line
.sig then you are sadly mistaken.
JAMES ALAN HART
In article <wwvpvnb...@sfere.greenend.org.uk>, r...@greenend.org.uk says...
>You [Tim Bagot] could choose a .sig which didn't have a spoiler in it? If you
>think you're going to stay out of killfiles for long with a 40 line
>.sig then you are sadly mistaken.
But to be fair, it is just forty carriage returns, so don't be too hard on the
man.
Regards,
James
PS I can't believe my first afp posting is about sig length. I'll have to get
back to you all with my wonderful theories about how TCOM is a huge analogy for
the destructive influence of the clergy in eighteenth century Prussia.
Nikk
Once upon a time, r...@greenend.org.uk decided to share these words of
wisdom to the readers of alt.fan.pratchett
>Tim Bagot <kebl...@sable.ox.ac.uk> writes:
>
>> Spoilers for sigs - sounds a bit excessive. (My bit doesn't even
>> reveal any important plot points.) Still, if that's what you want...
>
>You could choose a .sig which didn't have a spoiler in it? If you
>think you're going to stay out of killfiles for long with a 40 line
>.sig then you are sadly mistaken.
Or just ROT-13 it
--
"'Bar nqinagntr bs ubefrf ... vf gung gurl irel fryqbz rkcybqr'"
-Wvatb Fcbvyre
<g,d&rvvf>
Iwan Lamble
In article <3498d858...@news.btinternet.com>, Nikk
<n.wol...@btinternet.com> writes
>Or just ROT-13 it
>
>--
> "'Bar nqinagntr bs ubefrf ... vf gung gurl irel fryqbz rkcybqr'"
>-Wvatb Fcbvyre
Surely you mean
"'Bar nqinagntr bs ubefrf ... vf gung gurl irel fryqbz rkcybqr'"
-Jingo Spoiler
HTH HAND
--
Iwan Lamble
Pratchett Extras Annotations at http://www.lamble.demon.co.uk/annotat.htm (and
temporary (unedited) Jingo ones)
Discworld Screensaver at http://www.lamble.demon.co.uk/disc/atuin.htm
'Oook,' said the Librarian, sheepishly ... 'Do go on,' said the Patrician -TP
Gonzoid
On 10 Dec 1997 17:58:33 GMT, ja...@aber.ac.uk (JAMES ALAN HART) wrote:
>PS I can't believe my first afp posting is about sig length. I'll have to get
>back to you all with my wonderful theories about how TCOM is a huge analogy for
>the destructive influence of the clergy in eighteenth century Prussia.
In other words, it's a typical afpvirgin posting. Well done, James.
Welcome aboard!
** To respond privately, change "iac.not" to "iac.net" **
Brian "Gonzoid" Snape, The Gonzo Lager
"You're despicable!" - Daffy Duck, Egyptian God of Frustration
Angharad Elwes
Once upon a time in alt.fan.pratchett, Nikk rabbited on like so:
:Or just ROT-13 it
:--
: "'Bar nqinagntr bs ubefrf ... vf gung gurl irel fryqbz rkcybqr'"
:-Wvatb Fcbvyre
Perhaps, but don't rot-13 the part about which book!
Sheesh.
--
/-----------/Angharad 'Random Sig' Elwes at sover dot net\-----------\
Feeling suicidal? Wear red & beam down.
Avi
In article <64pna1$5at$3...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
L.I. Endell <li...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>6e6dd4....@news.tiac.net> <346FBE...@hotmail.com>:
>Organization: University of Cambridge, England
>Distribution:
>
>the squigger of Oz (squiggerC...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>
>: And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
>: about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
>: something actually SOUNDS like.
>
>Hmmm. The only way to find out what something *sounds* like is to try
>saying it. For instance, I say 'butter' - well, I don't, but I don't have
>the phonetic symbols. Some people don't pronounce the 't' sound but they
>*do* have a hard sound in the middle of the word. That's the glottal stop.
>Or indeed, the 'glo?al' stop, as it is also known.
Actualy, the sound in "butter" you're thinking of is called a "flap", and is
sort of a de-emphasized "t" sound... It's had to describe, but the best way to
be able to hear it is to realize that the sound does not really exist
in British. That is, if you hear an American speaker pronounce "butter"
and a British speaker pronounce "butter", you can hear the flap in the
merkin's speech.
Of course, that all has nothing to do with a glottal stop. This is a sound
that really does not show up much in English, and the only example I know
of is in "uh-oh!" The stop is between the two vowels, and if you say
this really emphatically, you can feel the constriction at your glottis[1].
I'm sorry if this isn't still [R]... I've only been reading the group for
a few weeks, and this is my first post[2] (gulp!) Please be gentle.
Thanks,
-Avi
[1] That is, the vocal folds[3].
[2] My first footnotes, too.
[3] Or, the voicebox, for the linguistically unschooled.
--
--
I tell ya, I could still beat somebody up pretty well with a plowshare...
-- av...@student.umass.edu -- http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~avif/ --
mmes...@mindspring.com
Avi wrote:
>
> In article <64pna1$5at$3...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>,
> L.I. Endell <li...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >6e6dd4....@news.tiac.net> <346FBE...@hotmail.com>:
> >Organization: University of Cambridge, England
> >Distribution:
> >
> >the squigger of Oz (squiggerC...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> >
> >: And what's the glottal stop sound like? I've found all sorts of things
> >: about languages and grammar, but never anything which tells me what
> >: something actually SOUNDS like.
Go and rent my Fair Lady. The Rex Harrison and Audry Hepburn version.
Listen closely. Everytime the word "bottle" or indeed any other with an
interior "t" sound is pronounced, you'll hear it. bo?le. Now memorize
the songs and sing them to your cow-orders, as Lerner and Loewe tunes
demand to be sung at the unsuspecting.
> >Hmmm. The only way to find out what something *sounds* like is to try
> >saying it. For instance, I say 'butter' - well, I don't, but I don't have
> >the phonetic symbols. Some people don't pronounce the 't' sound but they
> >*do* have a hard sound in the middle of the word. That's the glottal stop.
> >Or indeed, the 'glo?al' stop, as it is also known.
Is "Cockney" now considered a derogatory term? That's where you'll here
it, in the English speaking world.
> Actualy, the sound in "butter" you're thinking of is called a "flap", and is
> sort of a de-emphasized "t" sound... It's had to describe, but the best way to
No, he's talking about the glottal stop. It's a London variation. The
flap (which I have never heard given that name) is a Merkin deviance.
> be able to hear it is to realize that the sound does not really exist
> in British. That is, if you hear an American speaker pronounce "butter"
> and a British speaker pronounce "butter", you can hear the flap in the
> merkin's speech.
"Budder" almost.
> Of course, that all has nothing to do with a glottal stop. This is a sound
> that really does not show up much in English, and the only example I know
> of is in "uh-oh!" The stop is between the two vowels, and if you say
Good example! Yes, in Uh-oh. And My Fair Lady.
> this really emphatically, you can feel the constriction at your glottis[1].
> I'm sorry if this isn't still [R]... I've only been reading the group for
> a few weeks, and this is my first post[2] (gulp!) Please be gentle.
Wilkommen, Beinvenue, and welcome... (dear me, Liza Minelli musicals,
what next?) You've apparently been thoroughly FAQed, as you seem to have
got the concept of tagging and footnotes and suchlike (which is more
than I can say for myself) but I'd better refer you to
http://www.lspace.org anyway, just to be on the safe side. Anyway,
AFPers are notoriously nice to newbies. I'll wage you get a few
proposals of marriage within a week. From both genders, since yours
isn't clear from your name.
> Thanks,
> -Avi
There's a famous Merkin children's author named Avi. True Confessions of
Charlotte Doyle. Something Upstairs. Wossname about the boy who refused
to sing the national anthem (mother didn't want him singing drinking
songs to pagan gods, or some such wibble)... Not him are you? Read
several of his books as a middle schooler. He won quite a few awards.
And had the same conspicuous three letter apellation.
> [1] That is, the vocal folds[3].
> [2] My first footnotes, too.
> [3] Or, the voicebox, for the linguistically unschooled.
There aren't any on AFP unschooled about anything. Or none who'll admit
it. You lose the pedantry game if they call your bluff (says one who
knows.)
-Mary
Marian Rosenberg
<snip>
> > Actualy, the sound in "butter" you're thinking of is called a "flap", and is
> > sort of a de-emphasized "t" sound... It's had to describe, but the best way to
>
> No, he's talking about the glottal stop. It's a London variation. The
> flap (which I have never heard given that name) is a Merkin deviance.
>
> > be able to hear it is to realize that the sound does not really exist
> > in British. That is, if you hear an American speaker pronounce "butter"
> > and a British speaker pronounce "butter", you can hear the flap in the
> > merkin's speech.
>
> "Budder" almost.
Parkay...
Marian Rosenberg
<snip>
Parkay...
--
"Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes."
(If you can read this, you're overeducated.)
David Wald
In article <3498B1...@mindspring.com> mmes...@mindspring.com
writes:
>Go and rent my Fair Lady.
Sometimes one slip on the shift key can make all the difference...
How much does she cost?
-David
AFP Code 1.1 AC$ d s a U R F+ h- P-- OSUDM-:- C+++ M-- pp--- L+
c-- B+ Cn PT++ Pu* 5 X? MT? e+++ r++ y?
--
============================================================================
David Wald http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~wald/ wa...@theory.lcs.mit.edu
============================================================================
Ophelia Frump
Mary wrote in article <3498B1...@mindspring.com>...
<snip all the relevant discussion>
> AFPers are notoriously nice to newbies. I'll wage you get a few
> proposals of marriage within a week. From both genders, since yours
> isn't clear from your name.
To some of us that wouldn't even matter... <g>
Night, kiddies. I'm going to go off and try to
decide whether to fantasise about
Mr. Rochester or Sporty Spice. Or both.
Hey, let's throw in Baby Spice for good
measure...
Ophelia (possibly the token bisexual, but not
*a* token bisexual)[1]
[1] i.e. I really have no given orientation more
towards any one sex more than the other,
I don't just pretend to like girls too because
it makes me more attractive to men [2][3]
[2] Which, incidentally, it seems to. There
are more dyke daddies out there than there
are fag hags.[4]
[3] No wonder there's so much biphobia
around in both straight and lesbian
communities.[5]
[4] Even if I *am* one of the latter...
[5] And the fact that we're by definition
less repressed, Ophelia adds, throwing
out her favourite flamebait <but with a
disarming grin>
--
ophe...@geocities.com
"I am not talking to you now through the medium of custom,
coventionalities, nor even of mortal flesh:- it is my spirit
that adresses your spirit; just as if both had passed through
the grave and we stood at God's feet, equal;- as we are!"
- Charlotte Bronte (Jane Eyre), anticipating Internet communication.
John S. Ewing
On 17 Dec 1997 22:28:01 -0500, av...@emily.oit.umass.edu (Avi) wrote:
[snip]
>Of course, that all has nothing to do with a glottal stop. This is a sound
>that really does not show up much in English, and the only example I know
>of is in "uh-oh!" The stop is between the two vowels, and if you say
>this really emphatically, you can feel the constriction at your glottis[1].
The accents in e.g. Glasgow and Dundee are such that the glottal
stop is frequently used. From Tom Shield's diary in the (Glasgow)
Herald:
"A Dundee court was hearing a case involving a fracas outside a
Chinese takeaway.Part of the evidence related to an item of
nourishment which had been purchased from the takeaway.
"'And what happened to the carry-out food?' the defence lawyer
asked.
"The witness replied: 'A' e' i' a'.' [1] Thus becoming, possibly,
the first witness in a courtroom to utter a full sentence without
a consonant."
Regards,
John
[1] Translation: I ate it all
--
John S. Ewing
Glaschu / Glasgow
Alba / Scotland