Supermouse touring the US? Tips wanted.
Supermouse The Rodent
This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
will probably start in Boston.
This is all probably about a year away, perhaps even a little more.
Definitely more than six months from now. I am just not that impulsive.
One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a must-
see. I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
I will be trying to be good about writing up my diary while I'm over
there, too. So it is, sort of, tangentially, in a way, almost on topic
for one of the two groups I crossposted to. if I lie, lots.
Oh, all right, it's cat-hoovering.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Living from hand to Mouse
Dan Goodman
news:cldkEfAI...@ntlworld.com:
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>
> I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly
> begging for advice,
See rec.travel.air and rec.travel.usa-canada. If you can, set your
newsreader to kill anything crossposted to the group you're reading.
> ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get
> a chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet,
> although I will probably start in Boston.
Since I don't know what your tastes are and what you're interested in, I
can't really answer this. Do you want to know about
vegan/vegetarian/raw food restaurants, noisy drinking places, museums
(and if so, what kind), theosophical churches....?
> This is all probably about a year away, perhaps even a little more.
> Definitely more than six months from now. I am just not that
> impulsive.
>
> One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a
> must-see.
Again -- what are your tastes and interests?
> I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
> The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August,
> which, unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
There's a convention of some kind somewhere in the US almost every
weekend, I believe. (More on some weekends.)
--
Dan Goodman
Journal http://dsgood.blogspot.com or
http://www.livejournal.com/users/dsgood/ Whatever you wish for me, may
you have twice as much.
Dorothy J Heydt
Supermouse The Rodent <Super...@therodent.org.uk> wrote:
>
>One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a must-
>see. I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
>The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
>unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
There are a fair number of smaller, regional conventions that are
held over the Fourth of July weekend. The one I know about is
Westercon, held during that period in western North America. A
quick google tells me that the 2005 con is in Calgary, which is
in Canada rather than the US. http://www.calgaryin2005.org/ .
Then there's the even smaller (and also West Coast) BayCon,
http://www.baycon.org/ . In spite of having a rather over-large
committee, this always manages to be fun. It's held over
Memorial Day weekend (end of May).
>
>I will be trying to be good about writing up my diary while I'm over
>there, too. So it is, sort of, tangentially, in a way, almost on topic
>for one of the two groups I crossposted to. if I lie, lots.
>
>Oh, all right, it's cat-hoovering.
But attending conventions is a deductible expense for a writer,
at least in the US. Check your local listings for time and
channel.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Wilson Heydt
>
>This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>
>I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
>for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
>I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
>around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
>chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
>will probably start in Boston.
Rather depends on what sorts of things you want to see... Also bear
in mind that, from your perspective, the US is rather large. Or as
the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
--
Hal Heydt
Albany, CA
My dime, my opinions.
Julia Jones
<djh...@kithrup.com> writes
>Then there's the even smaller (and also West Coast) BayCon,
>http://www.baycon.org/ . In spite of having a rather over-large
>committee, this always manages to be fun. It's held over
>Memorial Day weekend (end of May).
Which I'll be going to if I haven't found a job by then. (Yes, I know,
that's not the way things normally go, but I'm an accompanying chattel -
it's only in the last year I've been *allowed* to work in the US...)
--
Julia Jones
"We are English of Borg. Your language will be assimilated."
Neil Barnes
news:HwMt8...@kithrup.com:
And note that the car rental companies have a bad habit of
supplying maps which cover five hundred miles in six or eight
inches...
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Wilson Heydt
Julia Jones <julia...@jajones.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <HwMsA...@kithrup.com>, Dorothy J Heydt
><djh...@kithrup.com> writes
>>Then there's the even smaller (and also West Coast) BayCon,
>>http://www.baycon.org/ . In spite of having a rather over-large
>>committee, this always manages to be fun. It's held over
>>Memorial Day weekend (end of May).
>
>Which I'll be going to if I haven't found a job by then. (Yes, I know,
>that's not the way things normally go, but I'm an accompanying chattel -
>it's only in the last year I've been *allowed* to work in the US...)
It's very strange to tell someone you wish that they *don't* get a
job soon....
Martyn Clapham
<Super...@therodent.org.uk> writes
[ hack ]
>One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a must-
>see. I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
>The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
>unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
If you wont be in America in August you'll be able to go to the 2005
Worldcon as it's in Glasgow!
Appears to be the usual weekend we use for CCDE so some people may have
to make a choice. ( I mentioned this to Sally, not as 'You must move
CCDE', but more 'You may not see one or two regulars' ).
Mart.
--
Livejournal at http://www.livejournal.com/users/pendlemac
Caroline's afpersonal God of Misunderstandings.
afpSlave to CCA.
Orjan Westin
>
> If you wont be in America in August you'll be able to go to the 2005
> Worldcon as it's in Glasgow!
Yeah, I'll have to get some sort of membership - I've got something to
nominate for a fanfic Hugo...
Orjan
Jacey Bedford
>
>This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
consistently beaten all others on price for the last four or five years.
I travel over tot he US anything between two and five times a year and
though I shop around - I've always ended up with Continental.
Also if you get transatlantic travel with a company, you can often get a
deal on internal flights (and believe me you don't want to drive to the
four corners of the US even in a month.)
>The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
>unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
That's a wise decision, cons notwithstanding. The Eastern states and up
into Ontario are punishingly hot and humid in August, especially if
you're not used to it. And believe me if you think it gets muggy in
England - you don't know what muggy is. Pennsylvania and Ontario and DC
in August can be like breathing soup.
If you have time to cross the border into Canada, go take a look at
Toronto, once of the nicest cities I know - and it has a great SF
bookstore on Yonge St - 'Bakka.'
If it were me, maybe I'd make a start in Nova Scotia ()fly into Halifax,
see some of the stunning coastline and towns around Lunenburg and
Peggy's Cove) and cross as a foot-passenger into the US via the ferry
(Nova Scotia to Main across the Bay of Fundy - I think it's Yarmouth to
Bar Harbor IIRC.) From there it's a short drive to Boston. Boston to New
York is also easy to do in a single day - down I95, or via bus. I don't
like cities and I thought I'd hate New York, but I didn't, though three
days was enough and I did theatre as well as museums and (a few) shops.
NY shops are mostly big city prices.)
It's an easy drive from NY via Philadelphia to Washington DC, too,
where if you like museums, you'll be in heaven. The Air and Space is an
absolute must. They do those little tourist tours on little trolly-buses
which take you round most of the sites you need to see (get on and off
wherever you like for a day-ticket) Parking in DC is awful, so stay
somewhere like Rockville and take the metro into the city.
(Alternatively you can travel from NY to DC by train or bus, via Philly
if you want to see the Liberty Bell etc.
If you like heritage sites, Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia is four
hours or so south of DC (Past Richmond and take a left) worth a look and
there's a fabulous sea life museum at Virginia Beach just a couple of
hours beyond that.
After that I'd look at flying to Toronto - having a look at the city and
driving a couple of hours to see Niagara Falls from the Canadian side
and also Niagara on the Lake (a colonial style town where one of the S.
King movies was filmed.) I'd avoid the town of Niagara falls - it makes
Blackpool look cultural - but nothing can spoil the falls. 23 million
gallons of water a minute falling over a three hundred foot cliff takes
a lot of spoiling. Make sure you do all the tourist things - the Maid of
the Mist boats, the walk behind the falls, the rapids and the whirlpool
- and then take a leisurely drive down the Niagara Parkway to Niagara on
the Lake. That's a good place for an overnight stay.
You can hop back across to the USA from Niagara - into upstate New York
or head towards the Midwest, through Michigan to Illinois and Chicago -
or you could just take a plane from Toronto and head for the Pacific
North West and Seattle. From there you can drive down that whole coast,
through Oregon to San Francisco Bay and down the coast road to Santa
Cruz.
I've not been any further south than that, but if you're going to do the
Grand Canyon and LA, just head south or south-east. That's one of my
plans eventually.
Beware - car rental is hideously expensive - especially with all the
extra insurance which you just dare not be without. Expect to pay at
least 1,000 for a month of car rental in the summer. Also you get
stuffed with a drop-off fee if you rent in one place and drop off in
another. Also you CAN'T rent in Canada and drop off in the USA or vice
versa - even though it's all Hertz or Avis or whatever. You can drive
over the border (check the terms of your rental agreement if you use a
small firm not one of the multi-nationals) as long as you are coming
back to do the drop-off. Car rental in Canada is generally less than in
the USA. Gas is dirt cheap after UK prices. You can fill up for the
equivalent of a tenner or less.
One more piece of advice... Don't take much in the way of clothes.
Prices there are so cheap, especially in the big stores like Wallmart
(unless you avoid them because of their politics) K-Mart, Zellers
(Canada) that you can restock your whole wardrobe. Some of the Outlet
malls (try Reading Pennsylvania) sell Levi 501s at 29.99 DOLLARS (less
than twenty quid.)
Sorry this reply is so long. I think I must be cat-vacuuming, too.
:-)
Alternatively maybe I should just start writing travel articles instead
of SF.
Jacey
--
To send me real mail try
artisan at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
and make the subject line obviously not spam.
Lister
alt.fan.pratchett . Martyn Clapham <afp...@pendlesider.demon.co.uk>
chose this moment to say the following
>In message <cldkEfAI...@ntlworld.com>, Supermouse The Rodent
><Super...@therodent.org.uk> writes
>
>[ hack ]
>
>>One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a must-
>>see. I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
>>The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
>>unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
>
>If you wont be in America in August you'll be able to go to the 2005
>Worldcon as it's in Glasgow!
>
>Appears to be the usual weekend we use for CCDE so some people may have
>to make a choice. ( I mentioned this to Sally, not as 'You must move
>CCDE', but more 'You may not see one or two regulars' ).
>
>Mart.
When exactly is this? I might go if it's not industry only. What
happens at it?
--
Hokey Kokey sex
---------------------------
Third leg in, third leg out
In, out, in, out, shake it all about
Brian M. Scott
<look...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
<news:t0oC1K1P...@artifact.demon.co.uk> in
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> Gas is dirt cheap after UK prices.
Yes.
> You can fill up for the equivalent of a tenner or less.
Maybe. At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
stations around here right now.
[...]
Brian
Mary Messall
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
> > I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> I can)
If you mean "four corners" literally, you'd probably do a week
each in Boston, Seattle, Orlando, and LA. Not only geographically
apt, but in some sense the obvious choices. But culturally, those
are not the most diverse cities you could choose. Florida and
California are a bit redundant, in fact.
So: you might replace Orlando in that list with New Orleans. I
haven't actually been there, but it's certainly got a colorful
reputation.
And then I'd probably replace LA with somewhere else as well, but
if you're looking for the America you've seen on television and
in the movies, that's the place to find it -- studio tours and
Disneyland can be fun (or at least, the Orlando versions of those
things were.) And you get the benefit of the nice climate and the
beaches.
You could just go a little further south, to San Diego, which has
a lot of those advantages plus day trips to Mexico. Or
considerably north, to San Francisco, which is supposed to be
really beautiful, and set around with wineries which offer
tasting tours.
On the other hand, if you're interested in a more "authentic"
America, you could visit the midwest... I live in Chicago right
now, and I could entertain you here pretty well (I'd drag you to
a baseball game) as well as possibly providing crash space.
Chicago's still not as "authentic" as say, Kansas City, or Tulsa,
or any of the small towns between them, but those places don't
really have much for tourists to do, and you can't get around
them unless you rent a car.
Or perhaps you're interested in natural beauty. Well, there's a
great deal of that to be had around Seattle (I can make
recommendations for there too, BTW, having lived in the region),
but you might want to venture deeper into the mountains. I can
give advice about Colorado (and if I happened to be staying with
my parents when you came, might possibly be able to offer crash
space there). I can also say that Lake Tahoe is the most
beautiful place I have ever been. In Nevada or Colorado, you
might also be able to have some "Western" fun: see a rodeo, go on
a trail ride. Heh, you could even stay at a dude ranch. Those
always look like fun, on television. Or you could visit Salt Lake
City, which has the gorgeous mountains and the pioneer history,
but with a unique religious culture. It would almost be like
visiting another country entirely. (They say that about Texas
too, but Texas is mostly ugly. <g>)
Some people will be shocked if you say you've visited the US and
not been to New York, but never having been there myself, I can't
comment much. It's more convenient to Boston than any of the
other places, and there'll be no shortage of culture and sight
seeing there, with a slightly grittier texture than in LA, I
imagine. It's not short of personality.
Some furriners have told me they want to visit the Grand Canyon
and Niagra Falls (at diagonally opposite corners of the country).
I've never been to either of those places, so I can't say they're
not worth visiting, but they're most famous among Americans for
their tacky tourist towns, so I don't particularly want to visit
them either. OTOH, half the reason I *do* want to visit Mount
Rushmore (where four presidents' faces are carved into a
mountain) is because the tacky tourist attractions scattered
around it. "World's largest ball of earwax" etc. I don't think
too many furriners go to South Dakota. You could probably see
some mountains and ride some horses there too, and maybe visit
some Native American sites, which would be cool. OTOH, there's
some of that to do around Seattle too...
I guess I'd send you to:
Boston
(historical tours, seafood restaurants, universities, concerts)
Chicago
(baseball, architecture, bars, blues, maybe sailing on the lake)
Seattle
(mountain hiking and riding, Puget Sound sailing, Native American
stuff, colorful neighborhoods)
New Orleans
(Cajun food, southern climate, live jazz, Mississipi river and
the Gulf of Mexico.)
With an option on New York and Southern California (probably you
could do a day or two in LA and a day or two somewhere inland or
further south) depending on how much time you want in each place.
With the caveat that this is seriously biased in favor of places
I've lived (Seattle and Chicago) and the further caveat that I
haven't, however, even visited all of these places myself.
> One consideration would be any decent conventions that might be a must-
> see. I keep hearing about them, but I'm all the way over in Blighty...
> The only thing I won't be doing, though, is travelling in August, which,
> unfortunately, iirc, is when the convention season is on.
I can't help you much here, unfortunately. I haven't really been
to any. You ought to pick your cities first, though, and then
poke around on the internet to see what conventions are on in
those cities on what dates.
> I will be trying to be good about writing up my diary while I'm over
> there, too. So it is, sort of, tangentially, in a way, almost on topic
> for one of the two groups I crossposted to. if I lie, lots.
> Oh, all right, it's cat-hoovering.
Oh, I didn't notice the cross post... I suppose it's all right. I
didn't bother much trying to stay on truly on topic when I was
reading rasfc for real either.
-Mary
Supermouse The Rodent
writes
>Rather depends on what sorts of things you want to see... Also bear
>in mind that, from your perspective, the US is rather large. Or as
>the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
>Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
I'm oddly placed for that. I don't think of 100 miles as a long way, but
somewhere to pop over to on a whim.
Heck, .nl is somewhere to go to 'not this weekend, maybe the next'.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Supermouse The Rodent
<nailed_...@hotmail.com> writes
>And note that the car rental companies have a bad habit of
>supplying maps which cover five hundred miles in six or eight
>inches...
That _is_ useful to know, yes.
Maps.
Lots and lots and lots of maps.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
My name is Supermouse, Rodent of Rodents.
Look on my cheese, Ye Mighty, and despair!
Supermouse The Rodent
<look...@nospam.invalid> writes
[snip tonnes of relevant, useful, interesting stuff]
>Sorry this reply is so long. I think I must be cat-vacuuming, too.
>:-)
It's great. Really great. Thank you. Thank you lots!
>Alternatively maybe I should just start writing travel articles instead of SF.
As well as! _Obviously_.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
A wandering Rodent I,
a mouse of cheese and crackers...
Supermouse The Rodent
<mmes...@ups.edu> writes
>If you mean "four corners" literally, you'd probably do a week each in Boston,
>Seattle, Orlando, and LA.
[snip more stuff that is... great and will be looked at in a lot of
depth after the weekend, along with others in this thread]
Boston and Seattle, yes, but not a week each. A crying shame, I know,
but a month isn't very long and there's a lot of the US to go around.
And that's before considering Canada as well. Chicago sounds good.
Wonderful even. And so on and...
...I'm glad I gave this some months to prepare for.
Lest I spam this thread, I'll keep and respond in depth later on when
I've read everything and make, hopefully, a considered, single reply to
you all. There are so many great suggestions, it's like picking a pony
for my birthday or something. Only, I get to choose how many ponies...
And work out the costs involved (Continental tip noted) and the
practicalities.
Thanks everyone, please don't stop suggesting food for thought, I'll be
getting back to some of you in email and I'm getting a lot to think
about. I like the idea of writing an itinerary and then finding a con to
match.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Wilson Heydt
100 miles (round trip) is a pretty common commute. 100 miles one
way is a longish but by no means exceptional commute.
Wilson Heydt
><nailed_...@hotmail.com> writes
>>And note that the car rental companies have a bad habit of
>>supplying maps which cover five hundred miles in six or eight
>>inches...
>
>That _is_ useful to know, yes.
>
>Maps.
>
>Lots and lots and lots of maps.
AAA makes really good ones. There are various road atlas' around.
The basic long-disance unit of map is the state. Gas stations near
state lines will gneerally sell the ones for the next state over.
Wilson Heydt
Mary Messall <m-me...@northwestern.edu> wrote:
>Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
>> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>> > I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
>> for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
>> I can)
>
>If you mean "four corners" literally, you'd probably do a week
>each in Boston, Seattle, Orlando, and LA. Not only geographically
>apt, but in some sense the obvious choices. But culturally, those
>are not the most diverse cities you could choose. Florida and
>California are a bit redundant, in fact.
The alternative meaning of "four corners" in the US is the region
where Arizona, Utah, Colorado and New Mexico all meet.
>You could just go a little further south, to San Diego, which has
>a lot of those advantages plus day trips to Mexico. Or
>considerably north, to San Francisco, which is supposed to be
>really beautiful, and set around with wineries which offer
>tasting tours.
If you go to Mexicao by car, buy *Mexican* insurance. Buy it as far
from the border as you can (the closer you get , the more expensive
it is). Do *not* believe a US insurance company that tells you that
you are covered in Mexico (whether it's true or not is irrelevant as
the Mexican authorities won't beleive it and will ahng on to you if
there is a problem until enough money can be shown to cover any
possible damages).
The wineries are an hour or more north of San Francisco. Lake Tahoe
and Yosemite are both about 3 to 4 hours away. For stunning views,
try driving down Calif. Rte. 49, which goes through the heart of the
Mother Lode country.
For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
Marilee J. Layman
<look...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> It's an easy drive from NY via Philadelphia to Washington DC, too,
>where if you like museums, you'll be in heaven. The Air and Space is an
>absolute must. They do those little tourist tours on little trolly-buses
>which take you round most of the sites you need to see (get on and off
>wherever you like for a day-ticket) Parking in DC is awful, so stay
>somewhere like Rockville and take the metro into the city.
>(Alternatively you can travel from NY to DC by train or bus, via Philly
>if you want to see the Liberty Bell etc.
and we have a new museum in DC, The National Academy of Sciences
Museum:
http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/2004/04/23/museum.php
--
Marilee J. Layman
Matt
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>
> I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> I can)
You mean the top left etc? OK. If you mean the bit where there are 4
states together, it's nothing special.
Must sees:
Yellowstone National Park
Grand Canyon
Death Valley/Desert in CA -> AZ
in that order.
Also of note:
Yosemite National Park,
um... other places.
Then cities,
New York, Washington DC, Boston, Buffalo (niagara falls), san francisco,
LA -- these are places I would visit again. Other cities are perhaps
interesting in their own way, I fluked seeing a carnival in Albany NY, for
instance.
> and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
> chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
> will probably start in Boston.
Whale watching! If you can afford it, it's great.
--
Matt
Matt
> And note that the car rental companies have a bad habit of
> supplying maps which cover five hundred miles in six or eight
> inches...
The National Geographic Atlas is very good, I can reccomend several of the
scenic routes it gives at the beginning, cost £10, and has well-scaled
maps of each state.
Oh, remember to see the American Indian stuff too, there's some ancient
settlements (Mesa Verde IIRC is one).
3 month-long tours mean I can't really remember where things are... we
went from Michigan (my great uncle lives on the lake shore near-ish to
Grand Rapids) to Chicago, Mitchell SD, tetons, Yellowstone, Flagstaff,
Grand Canyon, Phoenix AZ, then back up in a straight line (ish) to Chicago
and GrandRapids the first time (something like that, I can't remember
exactly, I was 12).
2nd time was the East Coast: flew to Toronto, rented a car, drove to
Niagara, Albany NY, New York, Boston, Washington DC, then drove back along
bits of the Appelacian Trail, and some of Virginia to Toronto and flew to
my Uncles house. That's an approximate order.
3rd time: This was to be the South west. Flew to Dallas, drove for *miles*
throgh Texas stopping at tiny towns with nothing in them, but which were
nevertheless interesting. Smelt of oil. Drove through to New Mexico, near
the Mexican border, looking at Indian things (dinosaur tracks is one I
remember, mainly because they were real and we didn't expect that;-), then
to Death Vallet (whew, heat), oh, before that the AZ desert and Grand
Canyon a 2nd time. Then we went to California, San Francisco, LA, Santa
Barba, San Hose, Yosemite, Seqoia N.P. and back via Las Vegas then AZ, NM,
TX, Dallas.
There's nowhere we went that I wouldn't recommend. If you prefer cities, I
can't help you so much as my dad hates them so we spent the minimal time
to keep me and my mum happy in the cities (we drive through LA, which I
was a bit annoyed about, without stopping. 6000 miles from home and we
just drove through...)
I think Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, the Arizona desert, Niagara, New York,
Washington DC[1] are what I remember most and what I enjoyed most. There's
an excellent, though expensive, motel in Flagstaff, with an attached
Indian Trading Post. It's called the Cameroon Trading Post, IIRC. We went
there twice to stock up on cultural gifts for people ;-D
--
Matt
[1] Where we saw the Capitol, thought it was the White House, then got
back to the motel at midnight and saw a picture on the phone book of the
white house "that wasn't what we saw". So we got back in the car after
eating, and went and saw the White House at half one in the morning,
taking it in turns to use the NightVision function of the video camera to
see it.
David Friedman
Supermouse The Rodent <Super...@therodent.org.uk> wrote:
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>
> I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> for advice, ideas, must-sees
It would help if you could say a little about what you are interested
in. Natural wonders? Museums of medieval jewelery? Historical
recreation? Great universities? ...
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
Dan Goodman
> Or as
> the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
> Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
>
Except: I spent part of my childhood in a house whose age wasn't known,
because the official records burned in 1859.
During the Civil War, some draftees from my area started their travels by
seeing the Hudson River for the first time -- about ten miles away. (Since
the Delaware and Hudson Canal ran through that area, there _were_ some
well-travelled people.) Much of the area isn't as flat as San Francisco,
and travel used to be tedious.
David J. Starr
Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
>
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
> This and pricing up the flights are as far as I have got.
>
> I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
> chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
> will probably start in Boston.
Should you get to Boston check out
1. Boston Fine Arts Museum
2. USS Constitution
3. Museum of Science
4. Boston Pops Orchestra. Free concerts at Hatch Shell in the summer
5. Harvard Square for atmosphere, books, music
6. Quincy Market
7. Paul Revere's house
8. Cranes beach
9. Boston garden (ride the swan boats)
10. China town
11. Aquarium
12. Shopping in the Back Bay
13. Higgins armory museum (lots of medieval suits of armor)
14. DUKW tour. (sight seeing ride thru town and up the river by WW2
amphibian)
Boston weather is good from March thru November. Winter (Dec, Jan, Feb)
can be frosty. August is warm and summery, but often very nice. If you
stay in Boston or Cambridge you don't need a car to get around, the
subway goes most everywhere you need to get to. You can get from Boston
to New York on the Fung Hwa bus line. Right now they are locked into a
price war with Lucky Star Bus line and a one way to New York is only
$10. That probably won't last, but the fare before the price war was
only $25. Or, take Amtrak. The new Acela streamliner is nice and will
get you to NY in 4 hours for about $100 one way. The Boston SF
convention is/was "Boskone". The Democratic Party national convention is
happening this summer (July). Other than the secret service wanting to
close down North Station, the commuter rail, the Orange line subway, the
big dig, I-93, and Storrow drive, lest some terrorist yo yo try and blow
up the Fleet center, it ought to be quite a show.
David J. Starr
David J. Starr
Cally Soukup
alt.fan.pratchett)
Wilson Heydt <whh...@kithrup.com> wrote in article <HwnB5...@kithrup.com>:
And if you're on a highway, there will often (but not always) be a
"tourist information center" near the state line that will give you an
adequate state map of the state you're entering for free, plus
pamphlets for dozens of cheezy tourist attractions.
NOTE TO EUROPEANS TRAVELLING IN THE US: When I travelled in England
and Wales almost 15 years ago now, and five countries on the Continent
about 25 years ago, I was amazed at how every small town had its own
tourist information center which would be happy to get you maps and
tourist brochures, and book you rooms at local bed and breakfasts or
whatever. This is *not* common in the parts of America I've travelled
in (barring major tourist attractions like the Grand Canyon). Or if
there are tourist information centers, they're not well enough marked
that I ever found them. The only places you can count on finding them
is on major highways at state lines, as above.
AAA or your own Automobile Association, whatever it may be called, is
your friend. Not only do they have the free really good maps, as noted
above, but they'll often have tourist books for various areas.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
Neil Barnes
> For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
Once the fog has lifted... :)
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
I second that. I did it this summer and it was just a continous delight.
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@spamcop.net - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/annafdd/
Eric Jarvis
> whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) wrote in
> news:HwnBG...@kithrup.com:
>
>
> > For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
>
> Once the fog has lifted... :)
>
Oh yes...and make sure that you check Neil's movements and don't arrange
to go anywhere he's just left.
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Helen
writes
I'm not sure the "100 miles is a long distance" holds much in the UK any
more. My normal daily commute is an 85 mile round trip. Once a week
it's 104 miles. That's because I live in a rural area and I know people
who commute daily to Liverpool and Manchester. Also, because of house
prices in the SE of England, people will live as far away as Leeds and
Manchester and commute into London daily.
Helen
--
Helen, Gwynedd, Wales *** http://www.baradel.demon.co.uk
John F. Eldredge
Hash: SHA1
On 24 Apr 2004 01:31:03 GMT, Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) wrote in
>news:HwMt8...@kithrup.com:
>
>> Or as
>> the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
>> Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
>>
>Except: I spent part of my childhood in a house whose age wasn't
>known, because the official records burned in 1859.
>
>During the Civil War, some draftees from my area started their
>travels by seeing the Hudson River for the first time -- about ten
>miles away. (Since the Delaware and Hudson Canal ran through that
>area, there _were_ some well-travelled people.) Much of the area
>isn't as flat as San Francisco, and travel used to be tedious.
In the early 1970s, I lived in Campbellsville, Kentucky (a small town
near the geographical center of the state). The town newspaper once
had an article about a woman, in her late 80's, who had just moved
into a local nursing home. 15 miles from where she was born, it was
the farthest away from her birthplace that she had ever been. She
had been raised five miles from a neighboring town by a family that
believed women should remain at home, not go out in public, and was
in her sixties before she ever visited that town. She was also
totally illiterate, as her family had believed, for religious
reasons, that only males should read and write.
Lest anyone start making hillbilly jokes, let me comment that,
although Taylor County (containing Campbellsville) was considered
part of Appalachia, the attitudes described above were _not_ the
norm.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBQIplYjMYPge5L34aEQJ98wCgjgGX3SfndTf65xNs0xNicNg0AC4AoIsc
2PFR5aSUMgxnTWz8HfAynl8y
=jmDn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Neil Barnes
news:MPG.1af461abd...@news.individual.net:
> Neil Barnes nailed_...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) wrote in
>> news:HwnBG...@kithrup.com:
>>
>>
>> > For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
>>
>> Once the fog has lifted... :)
>>
>
> Oh yes...and make sure that you check Neil's movements and
> don't arrange to go anywhere he's just left.
>
Ahem.
Neil's movements.
This week I are mostly going to Kiev. On Thursday I shall grace
St Alban's hospital with my presence (just a pre-op check, the
nasty stuff comes in a month or so). Friday is reserved for an
Open University Master's exam - designing user interfaces -
somewhere on Queensway, London.
Saturday is at present quiet.
Sunday my almost-classic car is guest of honour at the Fiat Coupe
Club UK stand at Brooklands race course, on the grounds I'm the
only person who's so tight he's hung onto it from new, nine years
ago...
Tuesday, watch out Miami, here I come again!
Wheeee!
Oh, and F&SF just sent Troika back. Probably cos I was rude about
the Dutch earlier :)
Brian M. Scott
Heydt) wrote in <news:HwnBG...@kithrup.com> in
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
The coastal highway up in Oregon offers some pretty good
views, too, not to mention some relatively unspoiled beaches
(at least I think it still does). I forget the number; 101,
maybe?
Brian
Edmund R. Schluessel
<dst...@theworld.com> wrote:
>Should you get to Boston check out
>13. Higgins armory museum (lots of medieval suits of armor)
This one's actually in Worcester, Massachusetts, which is about an
hour from Boston.
It's nice tho.
Edmund
David Friedman
Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
> whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) wrote in news:HwMt8...@kithrup.com:
>
> > Or as
> > the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
> > Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
> >
> Except: I spent part of my childhood in a house whose age wasn't known,
> because the official records burned in 1859.
Some friends of mine on Staten Island lived in a house the earliest bits
of which (part of the basement, I think) were supposed to be 17th
century. But that's pretty unusual.
Dan Goodman
> In article <Xns94D4D0B5BEA...@209.98.13.60>,
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>> whh...@kithrup.com (Wilson Heydt) wrote in
>> news:HwMt8...@kithrup.com:
>>
>> > Or as
>> > the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
>> > Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
>> >
>> Except: I spent part of my childhood in a house whose age wasn't
>> known, because the official records burned in 1859.
>
> Some friends of mine on Staten Island lived in a house the earliest
> bits of which (part of the basement, I think) were supposed to be 17th
> century. But that's pretty unusual.
>
In some parts of New York State, it isn't.
Darin Johnson
> Or if there are tourist information centers, they're not well enough
> marked that I ever found them.
Visit the gas/petrol stations. They usually have a supply of maps and
know about the local surroundings. Not as good as a real tourist
center, but still handy. Also most hotels and motels will have a
small stand in the lobby that has brochures for local attractions and
restaurants.
--
Darin Johnson
My shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance -- Babylon 5
Daniel R. Reitman
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>The coastal highway up in Oregon offers some pretty good
>views, too, not to mention some relatively unspoiled beaches
>(at least I think it still does). I forget the number; 101,
>maybe?
Yes, it is 101. One of the advantages Oregon has is that all ocean
beaches are subject to public access. (I think there's one private
beach in the entire state, on a disconnected bay.)
Dan, ad nauseam
Sarah Vaughan
<mmes...@ups.edu> writes
<snippage>
>With an option on New York and Southern California (probably you could
>do a day or two in LA and a day or two somewhere inland or further
>south) depending on how much time you want in each place.
I thought New York was an excellent place to visit - I'd particularly
recommend the Statue of Liberty and the Ellis Island Museum, but the
Empire State Building and general shopping are good too.
Not sure about LA. On my one trip there, I was mostly staying with
friends and didn't particularly check out the city, so I'm probably not
giving a very fair viewpoint. But it just doesn't strike me as
somewhere that I'd ever bother to go to as a tourist attraction. I did
like San Francisco, so if you want a major Californian city then that's
the one I'd recommend.
If you want to see a lot of great stuff in a short time without the
hassle of driving, check out www.greentortoise.com. I've done several
of their trips and would particularly recommend the coast-to-coast (the
10-day version). Of course, this does depend on whether you're prepared
to slum it somewhat or whether you want to travel in luxury - but if the
former is the case, I honestly can't recommend this company's tours too
highly.
Vermont and New Hampshire are also lovely places to drive round, but
probably a bit much to fit in with everything else you want to see. If
you do go to Vermont, look for the Ben & Jerry's factory & the teddy
bear factory nearby.
All the best,
Sarah
--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley
David Friedman
Sarah Vaughan <Nann...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I thought New York was an excellent place to visit - I'd particularly
> recommend the Statue of Liberty and the Ellis Island Museum, but the
> Empire State Building and general shopping are good too.
>
And the Metropolitan Museum. Its migration age jewelery collection
doesn't quite match the British Museum, but I don't know any other
collection that beats it. I assume it has lots of other things of
interest as well that I don't happen to know as much about.
Simon Waldman
>>You can fill up for the equivalent of a tenner or less.
>
>
> Maybe. At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
> get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
> stations around here right now.
That would fill up my tank twice...! OK, it's a small car, but it'd go
at least 500 miles on that at a steady 60.
--
The Lord's Prayer is 66 words, the Gettysburg Address is 286 words,
there are 1,322 words in the Declaration of Independence, but US
government regulations on the sale of cabbage total 26,911 words.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Waldman, UK email: swal...@firecloud.org.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------
Brian M. Scott
<swal...@firecloud.org.uk> wrote in
<news:5jftl1-...@blue.firecloud.org.uk> in
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
> Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>>You can fill up for the equivalent of a tenner or less.
>> Maybe. At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
>> get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
>> stations around here right now.
> That would fill up my tank twice...! OK, it's a small car, but it'd go
> at least 500 miles on that at a steady 60.
50 mpg? What do you drive? Even the Prius hybrid doesn't
get that much. Are you sure that you're not thinking of
imperial gallons? They're about 20% larger than the U.S.
gallon, and I could more easily believe 41-42 mpg.
Brian
Simon Waldman
>>>Maybe. At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
>>>get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
>>>stations around here right now.
>
>
>>That would fill up my tank twice...! OK, it's a small car, but it'd go
>>at least 500 miles on that at a steady 60.
>
>
> 50 mpg? What do you drive? Even the Prius hybrid doesn't
> get that much. Are you sure that you're not thinking of
> imperial gallons? They're about 20% larger than the U.S.
> gallon, and I could more easily believe 41-42 mpg.
Umm. I was making the gallons <> gallons mistake (is this big enough to
make a difference?), and I was rounding in favour of my point. To be
more accurate:
- An average fillup for me is about 25l.
- IIRC a (UK) gallon is approx 4.5l, so this is 5.5 gallons. Hence the
"filling up twice" thing.
- I drive a Ford Fiesta with a 1.25l engine. I have measured 47mpg on
motorways (so that's a real figure rather than a manufacturer's one, but
it is imperial gallons.)
Incidentally, ISTR seeing manufacturer's figures for the Prius as 68mpg
on motorways. I don't know which gallons they were but even if we
convert imperial->US that must still be >50?
--
God is real, unless declared integer.
Brian M. Scott
<swal...@firecloud.org.uk> wrote in
<news:r6ktl1-...@blue.firecloud.org.uk> in
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
> Brian M. Scott wrote:
>>>>Maybe. At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
>>>>get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
>>>>stations around here right now.
>>>That would fill up my tank twice...! OK, it's a small car, but it'd go
>>>at least 500 miles on that at a steady 60.
>> 50 mpg? What do you drive? Even the Prius hybrid doesn't
>> get that much. Are you sure that you're not thinking of
>> imperial gallons? They're about 20% larger than the U.S.
>> gallon, and I could more easily believe 41-42 mpg.
> Umm. I was making the gallons <> gallons mistake (is this big enough to
> make a difference?), and I was rounding in favour of my point. To be
> more accurate:
> - An average fillup for me is about 25l.
> - IIRC a (UK) gallon is approx 4.5l, so this is 5.5 gallons. Hence the
> "filling up twice" thing.
> - I drive a Ford Fiesta with a 1.25l engine. I have measured 47mpg on
> motorways (so that's a real figure rather than a manufacturer's one, but
> it is imperial gallons.)
Okay; about 40 mpg U.S.
> Incidentally, ISTR seeing manufacturer's figures for the Prius as 68mpg
> on motorways. I don't know which gallons they were but even if we
> convert imperial->US that must still be >50?
I was using the figure (44 mpg U.S.) in Consumer Reports,
which if I remember correctly is based on a variety of
driving conditions. That would be about 53 mpg Imp.
Brian
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:02:45 +0100, Matt
<nosp...@spam.matt.blissett.me.uk> wrote:
>saw the White House at half one in the morning, taking it in turns to use
>the NightVision function of the video camera to see it.
Blimey, I wouldn't admit than in an open forum, you'll have the CIA
and the Secret Service investigating you...!
Cheers,
Graham.
grahamafforda...@hotmail.com
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:51:41 GMT, David Friedman
<dd...@daviddfriedman.nospam.com> wrote:
>> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
>It would help if you could say a little about what you are interested
>in. Natural wonders? Museums of medieval jewelery? Historical
>recreation? Great universities? ...
The world's biggest ball of string? The largest collection of aircraft
sick bags? The biggest collection of fridge magnets...?!
Cheers,
Graham.
Matt
It would have been just under a month before September 11th[1] so I think
I'm OK.
Of course, they might already be investigating me...
*wipes hard drive* ;-)
--
Matt
[1] We visited New York on August 11th
Mal Franks
lucidity, Super...@therodent.org.uk says...
> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
>
Washington State - visit Seattle, Mt St Helens and spend a night at the
Paradise Inn 5,400ft up Mt Rainier (pick a moonless night for the best
view of the stars though) and travel north to pop over the border into
British Columbia.
Mal
Wilson Heydt
Teh 2004 Prius is rated at 60mpg, but (according to an article in
_The San Francisco Chronicle_ last week) actual milage is around 45.
I could beleive getting 50 by a really good driver.
--
Hal Heydt
Albany, CA
My dime, my opinions.
Wilson Heydt
><mmes...@ups.edu> writes
>
><snippage>
>>With an option on New York and Southern California (probably you could
>>do a day or two in LA and a day or two somewhere inland or further
>>south) depending on how much time you want in each place.
>
>I thought New York was an excellent place to visit - I'd particularly
>recommend the Statue of Liberty and the Ellis Island Museum, but the
>Empire State Building and general shopping are good too.
New York Museum of Natural History. Especially if you grew up on
Roy Chapman Andrews.
>Not sure about LA. On my one trip there, I was mostly staying with
>friends and didn't particularly check out the city, so I'm probably not
>giving a very fair viewpoint. But it just doesn't strike me as
>somewhere that I'd ever bother to go to as a tourist attraction. I did
>like San Francisco, so if you want a major Californian city then that's
>the one I'd recommend.
In San Francisco, forget about Lombard St. Go down Filbert. It's
two blocks way, goes down the same hill and *doesn't* do serpentine
twists.
In the Bay Area, don't forget Berkeley: UCB campus, which includes
displays in a surprising number of buildings, Lawrence Hall of
Science (Collosus: The Forbin Project used LHS for the exteriors),
botanical gardens and other sights.
David Goldfarb
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan <ada...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Wilson Heydt <whh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>> For stunning coastal views, drive down Calif. Rte. 1.
>
>I second that. I did it this summer and it was just a continous delight.
Unfortunately for me, I have a phobia about being a passenger in
a car that's driving on a road with one edge a cliff. I attribute
this to too many movies and TV shows in my childhood that featured
cars going over the edge of just such roads. This comes up less
often than my phobia of spiders....
(It's not so bad if I'm driving the car myself, because there I
have more feeling of control.)
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Nothing is more annoying to the discoverers of a
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | new land without human habitation than to find
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | that the natives have a strong sense of property
| rights." -- John M. Ford
Simon Waldman
> I was using the figure (44 mpg U.S.) in Consumer Reports,
> which if I remember correctly is based on a variety of
> driving conditions. That would be about 53 mpg Imp.
fair enough :-)
--
Half-dead cat found in box--RSCPA seeks Austrian scientist
Jacey Bedford
<spa...@btinternet.com> writes
delightful clothing shop on Yates Street - called Carnaby Street (yukky
name) it does hand made clothes based on ethnic designs with fabric
woven by a co-operative in Guatemala. Mostly women's clothes but
gorgeous men's shirts too.
Jacey
--
To send me real mail try
artisan at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
and make the subject line obviously not spam.
Darin Johnson
> Unfortunately for me, I have a phobia about being a passenger in
> a car that's driving on a road with one edge a cliff.
Hmm, I have a similar but different problem. I was driven to the
Sierras a lot as a kid where the cliffs seemed like sheer dropoffs.
Though once when driving that road near the dropoffs my power steering
failed and I was a bit shaken.
But I seriously have a problem driving on bridges. Especially the
arc portions. The angle tilts up and suddenly I can't see anything
but air to the left and right and it feels like I'm falling. But
I can't pull over or slow down because of the traffic. So I just
grip the steering wheel tight enough to bend steel. There was one
absolutely gorgeous bridge in Rhode Island that unnerved me more
than anything.
I also dislike some of the flat parts of bridges where the oncoming
traffic is separated from you by little flimsy plastic poles (so they
can change the number of lanes depending upon the commuting
direction). It's one thing to be adjacent to oncoming traffic when
you're on a rural or residential road, but at 50mph it is very
unnerving.
Ropeways, ski lifts, and hanging cable cars terrify me too. Though I
think I was ok with it as a child. So maybe I'm getting more phobias
as I get older. I got halfway up a mountain in one of these, since I
hadn't realized how bad it was until I was actually in one and moving,
at which point I froze completely while my friends kept trying to get
me to respond to their "all you alright" questions.
> (It's not so bad if I'm driving the car myself, because there I
> have more feeling of control.)
Doesn't help me. If I'm a passenger I can shut my eyes.
--
Darin Johnson
Laziness is the father of invention
S. Palmer
> I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
> chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
> will probably start in Boston.
The two best Boston-area conventions are Arisia in January and Boskone
in February. There are differences between the two, but they seem to
become more subtle as time passes. Of course Worldcon is here this
September, but that's less than six months away and so not within your
stated time fame.
I live in Massachusetts so I don't think I've ever done any touristy
stuff here. But having just gotten back from New Mexico, if you're going
to hit that corner of the country I'd *highly* recommend taking the tour
of Acoma Pueblo west of Albuquerque. It was just about the most
beautiful place I've ever seen. And if you do that, also go up to
Bandelier National Monument and see the old Anasazi Cliff Dwellings (but
not on the same day).
It depends a lot on what sort of stuff you like to do, and what level of
physical activity you are capable of -- ie, if you're not very mobile,
hikes are poor suggestions. [One of these days I'm going to find other
fandom folks in the area who like to hike but are as slow and
distractable as I am, and do a lot of pleasant outdoor meandering (-: ]
-Suzanne
X Kyle M Thompson
> If you get as far as Victoria BC (on Vancouver Island) there's the most
> delightful clothing shop on Yates Street - called Carnaby Street (yukky
> name)
What's wrong with the name? It's just named after Carnaby Street,
nowt wrong with that.
Tis a good name, similar shops to be found in Carnaby Street itself.
kt.
--
I'll get you any deal that you like
Ten sweets for a mountain bike you like
Jean
> Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
> > I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> > for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> > I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> > around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
> > chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
> > will probably start in Boston.
>
> The two best Boston-area conventions are Arisia in January and Boskone
> in February. There are differences between the two, but they seem to
> become more subtle as time passes. Of course Worldcon is here this
> September, but that's less than six months away and so not within your
> stated time fame.
However, Terry Pratchett is, as you may already know, the guest of
honor at Worldcon this year. Thus, if you could bring yourself to get
organized in time that might be ideal. September is also a wonderful
month in Boston, second only to October in my opinion, but then I like
the weather on the coolish side. There are fewer tourists after the
first week of September and hotel rooms become a bit easier to find
(and a bit cheaper in most cases).
I live 20 miles south of Boston, so put me on your list if you are
creating one for a possible Meet whenever you visit. Also, feel free
to write with any specific questions on the New England area.
Yours ever,
Pighooey
--
pighooey * at * mindspring * dot * com (not ici dot net)
X Kyle M Thompson
> Brian M. Scott wrote:
>> At the current rate of exchange a tenner won't quite
>> get you 10 U.S. gallons of regular (87 octane) at most
>> stations around here right now.
> That would fill up my tank twice...! OK, it's a small car, but it'd go
> at least 500 miles on that at a steady 60.
You get 500 miles out of 25 litres at 47 mpg? (as implied by your
later posts.)
Thats odd.
I just got 500 miles out of 10 Imperial Gallons at 53 mpg average
(as told to me by my Clio)
That's the same milage, for twice as much petrol (ish) with my
car more economical...
Simon Waldman
> You get 500 miles out of 25 litres at 47 mpg? (as implied by your later
> posts.)
>
> Thats odd.
No. If you read my post more carefully, you'll see that I was getting
500 miles out of two fillups, each of ~25l.
That may not work out exactly (the fillups are sometimes nearer 30l, the
mpg is sometimes only 35-40 if it's urban, etc.), but it's in the
ballpark.
For a specific example, I know that driving from High Wycombe to Durham,
which is ~270 miles, used to use a between 2/3 and 3/4 of a tank.
--
"All alone or in twos, the ones who really love you
Walk up and down, outside the wall"
-Pink Floyd, 'The Wall'
Aaron Dick
news:cu1zn8y...@nokia.com...
> gold...@OCF.Berkeley.EDU (David Goldfarb) writes:
> I also dislike some of the flat parts of bridges where the oncoming
> traffic is separated from you by little flimsy plastic poles (so they
> can change the number of lanes depending upon the commuting
> direction). It's one thing to be adjacent to oncoming traffic when
> you're on a rural or residential road, but at 50mph it is very
> unnerving.
That's interesting. The Harbour Bridge in Auckland has big solid concrete
dividers that are adjusted for the commuting direction. Driving between them
and the side of the bridge, one feels no fear of oncoming traffic. Slamming
into the diveders themselves wouldn't be fun though.
The massive two lane wide truck thing that does the shifting is great fun to
watch too.
As to the oncoming traffic on rural roads, in New Zealand it'd be moving at
roughly 100kph out on those roads. What speeds are you used to?
> Ropeways, ski lifts, and hanging cable cars terrify me too. Though I
> think I was ok with it as a child. So maybe I'm getting more phobias
> as I get older. I got halfway up a mountain in one of these, since I
> hadn't realized how bad it was until I was actually in one and moving,
> at which point I froze completely while my friends kept trying to get
> me to respond to their "all you alright" questions.
Yeah, even the smallest chairlift gives me the heebie-jeebies. A friend of
mine kept pointing out all the stuff people had dropped from one once, like
hats and things. He made me so nauseous I wanted to jump off as we got to a
fairly low point.
--
Mr Aaron Dick, DHI
Raven House
Marilee J. Layman
>"S. Palmer" <cic...@speakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<408DDE27...@speakeasy.net>...
>> Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
>> > I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
>> > for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
>> > I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
>> > around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
>> > chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
>> > will probably start in Boston.
>>
>> The two best Boston-area conventions are Arisia in January and Boskone
>> in February. There are differences between the two, but they seem to
>> become more subtle as time passes. Of course Worldcon is here this
>> September, but that's less than six months away and so not within your
>> stated time fame.
><snip>
>
>However, Terry Pratchett is, as you may already know, the guest of
>honor at Worldcon this year.
Yabbut, pterry is also GoH at Minicon 2005, so he could come to Mpls
(see the middle of the country) a week after Easter next year.
Thus, if you could bring yourself to get
>organized in time that might be ideal. September is also a wonderful
>month in Boston, second only to October in my opinion, but then I like
>the weather on the coolish side. There are fewer tourists after the
>first week of September and hotel rooms become a bit easier to find
>(and a bit cheaper in most cases).
>
>I live 20 miles south of Boston, so put me on your list if you are
>creating one for a possible Meet whenever you visit. Also, feel free
>to write with any specific questions on the New England area.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Jacey Bedford
Thompson <news.arghbug...@spamgourmet.com> writes
>Jacey Bedford wrote:
>
>> If you get as far as Victoria BC (on Vancouver Island) there's the
>>most delightful clothing shop on Yates Street - called Carnaby Street
>>(yukky name)
>
>What's wrong with the name? It's just named after Carnaby Street, nowt
>wrong with that.
height of the Mary Quant/Biba era - and so the name evokes fashion which
is already historical - and at least 35 years out of date. Something
that was so hyped up for a few short years is bound to sound passe when
all the fuss has died down.
>
>Tis a good name, similar shops to be found in Carnaby Street itself.
Neil Barnes
news:DjA5wES3...@artifact.demon.co.uk:
<Carnaby Street>
> Well, of course, I expect the street itself has moved with the
> times.
Nah, still where it always was, just off Regent's Street :)
Neil
--
note - the email address in this message is valid but the
signal to noise ratio approaches -40dB. A more useful address
is a similar account at ntlworld-fullstop-com.
Brian Pickrell
>
> I think Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, the Arizona desert, Niagara, New York,
> Washington DC[1] are what I remember most and what I enjoyed most. There's
> an excellent, though expensive, motel in Flagstaff, with an attached
> Indian Trading Post. It's called the Cameroon Trading Post, IIRC. We went
> there twice to stock up on cultural gifts for people ;-D
>
And Florida has the best titty bars.
Supermouse The Rodent
<pigh...@ici.net> writes
>> Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
[I want to see Boston]
>>
>
>However, Terry Pratchett is, as you may already know, the guest of
>honor at Worldcon this year. Thus, if you could bring yourself to get
>organized in time that might be ideal. September is also a wonderful
>month in Boston, second only to October in my opinion, but then I like
>the weather on the coolish side. There are fewer tourists after the
>first week of September and hotel rooms become a bit easier to find
>(and a bit cheaper in most cases).
It's an idea, but the sheer amount of organisation needed is daunting.
Not having done this before, there seems to be a lot to think about.
I have had a very busy week, busier than I planned, so I have yet to
trawl through all the replies (which are being marked as keep) and reply
to people. There are a lot of great suggestions.
What I'm interested in (this has been asked a few times, so I should
answer) is people. And culture. What the US is really like, as opposed
to what it looks like on TV. How big Texas is, how muggy the south gets,
what hot _really_ means, how big a big lake is, why Chicago is called
the Windy City...
Seattle is somewhere I've always wanted to go, if I could persuade
myself stateside, just because I read a lot of Betty MacDonald and I
want to compare then and now.
In truth, I'd like to do all of it, but the place is just too big.
Oh, yes, in answer to the commutes thing, we used to go on a 240 mile
round trip to get our shopping because it worked out cheaper than
shopping at home. As a weekly thing. Or just pop up there of an evening
to visit old friends.
'Far away' is anywhere more than four hours by car. Pol's a bit odd in
that respect, he goes 18 miles to get a sandwich from a place he likes
and he used to do a 120 mile commute (120 miles each way, that is)
although even he admits that was pushing it. Since we've been together,
I've learned to think the same way.
>
>I live 20 miles south of Boston, so put me on your list if you are
>creating one for a possible Meet whenever you visit. Also, feel free
>to write with any specific questions on the New England area.
The reason for starting in Boston was an offer of a place to stay, which
is what kicked this whole idea off. :0) I'll be sure and let you know
when I'll be there for a meet up.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Oh! To be a Rodent!
Supermouse The Rodent
Layman <mjla...@erols.com> writes
>Yabbut, pterry is also GoH at Minicon 2005, so he could come to Mpls
>(see the middle of the country) a week after Easter next year.
Hmm...
I just don't have enough time! Someone else will have to stalk him.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Tim S
> Jacey Bedford <look...@nospam.invalid> wrote in
> news:DjA5wES3...@artifact.demon.co.uk:
>
> <Carnaby Street>
>> Well, of course, I expect the street itself has moved with the
>> times.
>
> Nah, still where it always was, just off Regent's Street :)
And it was never in Fleet Street anyway...
Tim
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
Oh, I'd guess you'd find good ones just outside every Navy base.
Certainly all the ones we were stationed at.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Torak
>>
>>>I think Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, the Arizona desert, Niagara, New York,
>>>Washington DC[1] are what I remember most and what I enjoyed most. There's
>>>an excellent, though expensive, motel in Flagstaff, with an attached
>>>Indian Trading Post. It's called the Cameroon Trading Post, IIRC. We went
>>>there twice to stock up on cultural gifts for people ;-D
>>
>>And Florida has the best titty bars.
>
> Oh, I'd guess you'd find good ones just outside every Navy base.
> Certainly all the ones we were stationed at.
Surely not! Or do you mean that the Village People were *lying*? ;-)
Sarah Vaughan
writes
<snippage>
>In San Francisco, forget about Lombard St. Go down Filbert. It's two
>blocks way, goes down the same hill and *doesn't* do serpentine twists.
Better still, forget about driving altogether and take the trams. Much
more fun.
All the best,
Sarah
--
"I once requested an urgent admission for a homeopath who had become depressed
and taken a massive underdose" - Phil Peverley
Sarah Vaughan
<Super...@therodent.org.uk> writes
<snippage>
>What I'm interested in (this has been asked a few times, so I should
>answer) is people. And culture. What the US is really like, as opposed
>to what it looks like on TV.
Um, you do realise just how much of a project that is, don't you? ;-)
My experience from there is that it's not so much what the US is really
like, as what individual states are really like. You do get quite a
different feel from different states. But sampling different ones from
different areas should be fascinating.
[...]
>In truth, I'd like to do all of it, but the place is just too big.
Ah, but you can plan all the things you want to do next time you get to
go back. It's a lifetime project to work on. ;-)
Suzanne A Blom
Sarah Vaughan <Nann...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zVmTL2Cz...@samael.demon.co.uk...
> In message <ih1rFdAz...@ntlworld.com>, Supermouse The Rodent
> <Super...@therodent.org.uk> writes
>
> <snippage>
> >What I'm interested in (this has been asked a few times, so I should
> >answer) is people. And culture. What the US is really like, as opposed
> >to what it looks like on TV.
>
> Um, you do realise just how much of a project that is, don't you? ;-)
> My experience from there is that it's not so much what the US is really
> like, as what individual states are really like. You do get quite a
> different feel from different states.
It's worse than that. There are also weird little pockets of utterly
different stuff within states, and gradients, and....
Wilson Heydt
Sarah Vaughan <Nann...@samael.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <HwsE3...@kithrup.com>, Wilson Heydt <whh...@kithrup.com>
>writes
>
><snippage>
>>In San Francisco, forget about Lombard St. Go down Filbert. It's two
>>blocks way, goes down the same hill and *doesn't* do serpentine twists.
>
>Better still, forget about driving altogether and take the trams. Much
>more fun.
Trams? Street cars? Check. Cable cars? Check. Busses? Check.
BART trains? Check. Except during the summer when teh muni borrows
a bunch of unsual and/or historic street cars (one or two of which
may be classed as 'trams'), no trams.
However, Cable cars don't go down Lombard *or* Filbert.
Lora D
<Super...@therodent.org.uk> wrote:
>What I'm interested in (this has been asked a few times, so I should
>answer) is people. And culture. What the US is really like, as opposed
>to what it looks like on TV. How big Texas is, how muggy the south gets,
>what hot _really_ means, how big a big lake is, why Chicago is called
>the Windy City...
You really should see Yellowstone Park. There is no place like it on
earth. If you're driving, or on a train, the journey from Chicago to
Seattle is an amazing revelation about how huge, and geographically
diverse, this country is. Stop by here (small-town SW Montana, just
north of Yellowstone Park) if you like. It's even possible we could
find a place for you to stay. Yellowstone deserves more than a day
trip, but you can see a lot in even a day.
I'd also recommend some time spent in San Francisco, my personal
Ankh-Morpork. If you go, I know some people there -- I'm only there
once a year, in September.
--
Lora in MT
reply-to address is real
Simon Waldman
> However, Cable cars don't go down Lombard *or* Filbert.
one does go along the top, IIRC.
Last year when I visited I walked straight from the cruise terminal to
the top of Lombard, and then got the cable car down again. There's
something wrong with doing it that way round... ;-)
--
Half-dead cat found in box--RSCPA seeks Austrian scientist
Wilson Heydt
Simon Waldman <swaldman-dated-1...@firecloud.org.uk> wrote:
>Wilson Heydt wrote:
>
>> However, Cable cars don't go down Lombard *or* Filbert.
>
>one does go along the top, IIRC.
>
>Last year when I visited I walked straight from the cruise terminal to
>the top of Lombard, and then got the cable car down again. There's
>something wrong with doing it that way round... ;-)
Interesting choice of route... Good thing you didn't try walking up
Filbert (though it probably has steps...I don't specifically recall
if it does).
Richard Eney
>Some furriners have told me they want to visit the Grand Canyon
>and Niagra Falls (at diagonally opposite corners of the country).
>I've never been to either of those places, so I can't say they're
>not worth visiting, but they're most famous among Americans for
>their tacky tourist towns, so I don't particularly want to visit
>them either.
Having finally seen the Grand Canyon year before last, I can honestly
say that no tourist trap can spoil it. Just bring enough film, and
spare batteries for your camera, and enough money to buy more. A
telephoto lens is worth the money, too. You just can't believe how
far away that fascinating color combination is and how small it will
be on the photograph.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
Mal Franks <spa...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Washington State - visit Seattle, Mt St Helens and spend a night at the
>Paradise Inn 5,400ft up Mt Rainier (pick a moonless night for the best
>view of the stars though) and travel north to pop over the border into
>British Columbia.
Or south to Portland, Oregon and go to Powell's Bookstore. Expect
to spend about 8 hours inside. :-)
=Tamar
Brian M. Scott
(Richard Eney) wrote in
<news:109gstf...@corp.supernews.com> in
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
> In article <QYydnS9YxKq...@comcast.com>,
> Mary Messall <m-me...@northwestern.edu> wrote:
>>Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
>>> I want to go around the US for a month or so.
> <snip>
>>Some furriners have told me they want to visit the Grand Canyon
>>and Niagra Falls (at diagonally opposite corners of the country).
>>I've never been to either of those places, so I can't say they're
>>not worth visiting, but they're most famous among Americans for
>>their tacky tourist towns, so I don't particularly want to visit
>>them either.
> Having finally seen the Grand Canyon year before last, I can honestly
> say that no tourist trap can spoil it.
Likewise Niagara Falls (from the Canadian side), though if
you can do only one, I'd definitely make it the Grand
Canyon. (In general I think that natural spectacles are
less likely to be diminished by the tourist traps around
them than the man-made variety.)
> Just bring enough film, and
> spare batteries for your camera, and enough money to buy more. A
> telephoto lens is worth the money, too. You just can't believe how
> far away that fascinating color combination is and how small it will
> be on the photograph.
This is assuming that you're the picture-taking sort. (I'm
not: I'd rather not be burdened with a camera when I know
that I'm unlikely to look at the pictures more than once or
twice at most anyway.)
Brian
Jeanette
Richard Eney <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:109gstf...@corp.supernews.com...
My Canadian cousin lives forty minutes drive from Niagara Falls, and took me
to see them when I visited in 1999. Yes, the town itself was just like
Blackpool but hotter (it was June), but the Falls themselves were awesome,
the noise alone impressed me. There's a reason why so many people go to see
them, they are one of the most beautiful natural sights I've ever been
privileged to see.
Joann Zimmerman
Couple hundred. They're a well-known local landmark, what with having
the Grace Marchant Gardens decorating the slopes (I own a square inch of
them), and the "Dark Passage" apartment house right at the top. It's a
good puff to get all the way up the wooden steps, and there are several
little alleys off them; it looks like the Steps are the only access to
the houses.
--
"I never understood people who don't have bookshelves."
--George Plimpton
Joann Zimmerman jz...@bellereti.com
Joann Zimmerman
says...
> Having finally seen the Grand Canyon year before last, I can honestly
> say that no tourist trap can spoil it. Just bring enough film, and
> spare batteries for your camera, and enough money to buy more. A
> telephoto lens is worth the money, too. You just can't believe how
> far away that fascinating color combination is and how small it will
> be on the photograph.
Even better is going to the edge of the canyon at night and listening to
the wind come up from the bottom: the voices of millions of years, all
in a quiet rustle. Scary does not begin to describe it.
Rocky Frisco
My own recommendations for things to see in darkest Murka:
Monument Valley, Utah/Arizona
Arches National Monument, Utah
Mesa Verde, Colorado
Northern Coastal Redwood Forest, California
-Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com
--
JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm
The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us
Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/
cMAD
> My Canadian cousin lives forty minutes drive from Niagara Falls, and took me
> to see them when I visited in 1999. Yes, the town itself was just like
> Blackpool but hotter (it was June), but the Falls themselves were awesome,
> the noise alone impressed me. There's a reason why so many people go to see
> them, they are one of the most beautiful natural sights I've ever been
> privileged to see.
After having seen the Niagara Falls at daytime, you need to hang around until
after dark.
You shall be truly enlightened about Merkin culture.
cMAD
April Goodwin-Smith
>
<snip>
> >
> >>>Supermouse The Rodent wrote:
> >>>>I want to go around the US for a month or so.
> >>
> >><snip>
>
>
> Monument Valley, Utah/Arizona
>
> Arches National Monument, Utah
>
> Mesa Verde, Colorado
>
Yes to the above. Wow. Try to stay in Moab. The area is
flat (ish) and the ground is red, but far in the west are the
Rocky Mountains. In the morning, just before the sun rises,
the ground around you is shrouded in shadow, but the distant
snowy tops are brilliantly lit. Lovely.
April.
Put out the cat.
--
"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things. Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988)
Mal Franks
lucidity, dic...@radix.net says...
And several minutes outside while you walk to its mini-bookstores :-)
Went there in 2000, we met up with my wife's Great Aunt and Great Uncle
after we'd been browsing in it - the GU was supposed to give us a tour of
Portland, but instead spent almost an hour finding a "british pub" to
take me to and then took us to an out-of-town All You Can Eat restaurant
(Country Fayre was its name iirc) - I took a photo of them with my wife
and m-i-l outside at their request.
When we returned to Tacoma, WA last year - there were photo albums
belonging to Tiff's Great Aunt at her mum's house - we leafed through it
and saw morbid things like photo's of Tiff's grandma and another Great
Aunt's last sleeps in hospital before they died and about 10 photos of
various members of Tiff's family with her GA & GU outside the same bloody
All You Can Eat restaurant!!
Mal
Sean Cleary
> In article <cldkEfAI...@ntlworld.com>,
> Supermouse The Rodent <Super...@therodent.org.uk> wrote:
> >I want to go around the US for a month or so.
> >
> >
> >I know there is a lot more to it than that. I am here blatantly begging
> >for advice, ideas, must-sees (ideally I'd like to do the four corners if
> >I can) and also wondering who might want to meet up with me while I'm
> >around. I'd like to catch up with a few people I just don't often get a
> >chance to see. No part of my itinerary has been planned yet, although I
> >will probably start in Boston.
>
> Rather depends on what sorts of things you want to see... Also bear
> in mind that, from your perspective, the US is rather large. Or as
> the quip has it, "America is where a 100 years is a long time,
> Europe is where a 100 miles is a long distance."
Must see.
Geography division:
Niagra Falls,
Grand Canyon, painted desert pertrified forest, crater (all in same
general area)
Yellowstone,
the Sequoias near yosemite, and Yosemite itself.
Citys division:
NYC
People division:
fan gatherings/Cons
all the people on AFP, Calahans, etc.
wonderful places:
Boston Museum of Science
'LA, etc parks: Disneyland, Knotts, Magic Mountain, (SD:) Legoland,
SeeWorld, San Diego Zoo,
San Francisco: Zoo, Science muesum, tourist things like china town and
trolly,
Lots more, but these I can recommend.
Sean
Suzanne A Blom
Mary Messall <mmes...@ups.edu> wrote in message
news:Ya-dnbXmPK3...@comcast.com...
> Sean Cleary wrote:
>
> I think my earlier statement that I'd never particularly wanted to
> visit Niagra or the Grand Canyon (and was sort of surprised to find
> non-Americans, with a limited amount of time, wanting to go
> there) was
> inadvertently revealing. I must view all travel as an anthropological
> expedition, at some level.
>
> If you gave me a ticket to anywhere in the US and told me to use
> it to
> visit somewhere I hadn't been, most of these places would never even
> occur to me. I mean, New York probably would, and I did say that
> South
> Dakota appealed to me as much because of the weird road-trip tourist
> trade as in spite of it (_American Gods_ makes it sound incredibly
> weird and exotic and appealing, doesn't it?) But the first places to
> come to mind are New Orleans, New Mexico, Quaker and Mennonite
Anthropology, yes. I occurs to me that that is what I love about the
sidewalk cafes of Europe. One can sit & watch the people. I agree most of my
memories of traveling are of the strange & wondrous people.
David Jensen
<Ya-dnbXmPK3...@comcast.com>:
> Sean Cleary wrote:
>
>> Must see.
>> Geography division:
>> Niagra Falls,
>> Grand Canyon, painted desert pertrified forest, crater (all in same
>> general area)
>> Yellowstone,
>> the Sequoias near yosemite, and Yosemite itself.
>> Citys division:
>> NYC
>
>
>> wonderful places:
>> Boston Museum of Science
>> 'LA, etc parks: Disneyland, Knotts, Magic Mountain, (SD:) Legoland,
>
>
>> SeeWorld, San Diego Zoo,
>
>Ah, finally! I've been to San Diego Zoo and to Sea World. Nice,
>as zoos
>and aquaria go. But I wouldn't have gone to San Diego just for
>them. I
>remember much more vividly the bus to Tijuana and the cheap
>flea-market
>type stalls in the arcade and the slightly scary salesmen who
>called me
>"pretty lady". And the greasy tortilla chips at the restaurant. And
>getting lost and nearly missing the bus, and waiting in customs
>lines,
>coming back.
>
>That was a great trip.
>
>> San Francisco: Zoo, Science muesum, tourist things like china town and
>> trolly,
>
>
>I think my earlier statement that I'd never particularly wanted to
>visit Niagra or the Grand Canyon (and was sort of surprised to find
>non-Americans, with a limited amount of time, wanting to go
>there) was
>inadvertently revealing. I must view all travel as an anthropological
>expedition, at some level.
>
>If you gave me a ticket to anywhere in the US and told me to use
>it to
>visit somewhere I hadn't been, most of these places would never even
>occur to me. I mean, New York probably would, and I did say that
>South
>Dakota appealed to me as much because of the weird road-trip tourist
>trade as in spite of it (_American Gods_ makes it sound incredibly
>weird and exotic and appealing, doesn't it?)
Oh, an American Gods tour? I'll have to look that up again to see which
was covered. I can heartily comment that The House on the Rock is
unsurpassed as kitsch. If the price of admission weren't absurdly high,
it might almost be entertaining. Wall Drug and the Corn Palace almost
match it, but they are free to see, so a better value. Black Hills and
Badlands are beautiful and (as of a few decades ago) commerce barely
managed to spoil them, unlike Gatlinburg and Wisconsin Dells, where you
have to look very hard to find the natural beauty that first caused the
areas to become tourism destinations. I'll throw Galena, Illinois in as
a nice little place to stop, as well.
>But the first places to
>come to mind are New Orleans, New Mexico, Quaker and Mennonite
>country,
>Appalachia and the Blue Mountains...
>
>-Mary
I do concur on visiting New Orleans. It's the one city in America that
has never subscribed to the idea that the business of America is
business. It's wonderful, but listen to the locals who are not catering
to tourists if you need to do something 'normal' like visit a hospital.
There is a bit of a real city behind the facade.
Lafayette is a nice drive west of town.
Irina Rempt
> If you gave me a ticket to anywhere in the US and told me to use
> it to
> visit somewhere I hadn't been, most of these places would never even
> occur to me.
When I went to Canada for a convention and the people I was staying with
for a few days on each side asked me what I wanted to see, I said "a
supermarket, a bookshop and a maple tree". I figured (correctly, as it
turned out) that I'd see quite enough geography without explicitly
being taken to see it.
(And the supermarket was amazing, the bookshop unremarkable though I did
buy my first Kit and Nita book there, and the maple tree disappointing
because the climate in mid-Alberta was wrong for actual sugar maples)
Irina
--
Vesta veran, terna puran, farenin. http://www.valdyas.org/irina/
Beghinnen can ick, volherden will' ick, volbringhen sal ick.
http://www.valdyas.org/foundobjects/index.cgi Latest: 23-Mar-2004
David Friedman
Irina Rempt <ir...@valdyas.org> wrote:
> When I went to Canada for a convention and the people I was staying with
> for a few days on each side asked me what I wanted to see, I said "a
> supermarket, a bookshop and a maple tree". I figured (correctly, as it
> turned out) that I'd see quite enough geography without explicitly
> being taken to see it.
>
> (And the supermarket was amazing ... )
...
I'm curious--what was amazing about it?
--
Remove NOSPAM to email
Also remove .invalid
www.daviddfriedman.com
Jean
> What I'm interested in (this has been asked a few times, so I should
> answer) is people. And culture. What the US is really like, as opposed
> to what it looks like on TV.
Ah! Now I know *exactly* what you mean. That's just how I felt when I
visited England for the first time. My host asked me what I wanted to
see and, like someone else on this thread, I said a supermarket. I
mean, I wanted to see other things, touristy things, too, but for some
reason a supermarket seems like the place to get a glimpse of locals
just being themselves. And let's face it, if you go to tourist
attractions what you are primarily going to see is...other tourists.
But you can't go to London and not see Buckingham Palace (at least
from the outside, which is all I did) and you can't go to Boston and
not see...um, I dunno, whatever it is the tourists come to see. But
anyway, other good places to see "real" people when you're a tourist
in the States are flea markets and yard sales (also called tag sales
or garage sales). Flea markets usually are a cross between a car boot
sale and a town market day, and yard sales are like car boot sales
only they are at people's actual homes (I don't know if these are
common in other countries, so forgive me if I'm telling you something
you already know). Tourist attractions are one reason to get from
point A to point B when you're traveling, but if you want to see "the
real Merka" check local papers wherever you go and look for flea
markets, public suppers, agricultural fairs (shows), town founders'
days (small fairs that celebrate local history and generally involve
tiny parades, barbecues, jumble sales, games for the kiddies, and
various sporting competitions between the area police and fire
departments), and yard/tag/garage sales. Once you're at these places
it will be very easy to strike up conversations with people. I'm
inclined to think that, after visiting these types of events from
Boston to Texas to Chicago to San Francisco, the amatuer sociologist
would have much food for thought!
> How big Texas is...
[laughing] Really big! So big I don't even know how you'd get a true
appreciation of it unless you spent your whole vacation there.
> ...how muggy the south gets...
Argh! Trust me, you don't really want to know that! Have you ever been
in a sauna? Yes? There, now you know how muggy the south gets.
> ...what hot _really_ means...
It means you die. But if you must find this out for yourself, I
recommend Las Vegas over Death Valley (there's a bit more to do there
and gets almost as hot in August).
> ...how big a big lake is...
Er, these vary a good bit.
> ...why Chicago is called the Windy City...
Ah, well, you'd have to come in January or February to really
appreciate that. But Chicago would be a good place to find out how big
a lake *can be*.
> In truth, I'd like to do all of it, but the place is just too big.
Yes, but so is England if one really wants to get to "know" any of it.
Heck, so is any one town unless you actually move there for several
years. It's extremely frustrating, isn't it, when you truly want to
get a feel for a place and yet know, deep down, the futility of that
desire. In some ways I envy people who only want to be able to go back
home and say "I saw the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace" or
"I rode the swan boats on Boston Common" and never feel that they've
missed anything.
> The reason for starting in Boston was an offer of a place to stay, which
> is what kicked this whole idea off. :0) I'll be sure and let you know
> when I'll be there for a meet up.
Yes, please do. Meets are another great way to glimpse the "real"
culture of wherever you're visiting. Good luck and keep us posted!
Yours ever,
Pighooey (at mindspring dot com)
Brian M. Scott
alt.fan.pratchett,rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> But you can't go to London and not see Buckingham Palace (at least
> from the outside, which is all I did)
Oh, you most certainly can. Many times, in fact. Now if you'd
said Foyle's, or even Hatchard's, ...
[...]
Brian
Berna Bleeker
wrote:
>On Thursday 06 May 2004 22:26 Mary Messall (mmes...@ups.edu) wrote:
>
>> If you gave me a ticket to anywhere in the US and told me to use
>> it to
>> visit somewhere I hadn't been, most of these places would never even
>> occur to me.
>
>When I went to Canada for a convention and the people I was staying with
>for a few days on each side asked me what I wanted to see, I said "a
>supermarket, a bookshop and a maple tree". I figured (correctly, as it
>turned out) that I'd see quite enough geography without explicitly
>being taken to see it.
A supermarket, yes! And a Chinese restaurant. I've been to a Chinese
restaurant in Japan once, and it was *very* different from the ones we
have here in the Netherlands. So now I plan to visit a Chinese
restaurant in every country I go to.
Berna
--
( )_( ) Berna Bleeker
/ . . \ There is no S.P.A.M. in my real email address
\ \@/ / http://www.volksliedjes.nl
David Friedman
pigh...@ici.net (Jean) wrote:
> > ...why Chicago is called the Windy City...
>
> Ah, well, you'd have to come in January or February to really
> appreciate that.
I'm told that it has nothing to do with the weather.
The account I'm familiar with is that when cities were competing for a
late 19th c. world's fair, or perhaps the Columbian Exposition, the
Chicago representatives were particularly extravagant in their praises
of their own city. "Windy" at the time was slang for "boastful."
Whether it's true I don't know; si non e vero e ben trovato. My wife
points out that even if it is, the weather might have something to do
with why the name stuck.
David Friedman
The Sutton Hoo treasure. And if you have extra time, the Cheapside Hoard.
Simon Waldman
> why Chicago is called
> the Windy City...
They have fountains there that squirt you, you know.
All for the sake of civic virtue...
--
A train stops at a train station.
A bus stops at a bus station.
On my desk I have a workstation...
Brooks Moses
[...]
> Black Hills and
> Badlands are beautiful and (as of a few decades ago) commerce barely
> managed to spoil them, unlike Gatlinburg and Wisconsin Dells, where you
> have to look very hard to find the natural beauty that first caused the
> areas to become tourism destinations.
FWIW, the badlands cannot possibly have changed any by the time my wife
and I visited them four years ago, and the traffic in the area was still
fairly minimal. I was quite pleased to find that the route we took
through them involved a few miles of dirt road through herds of buffalo,
too.
- Brooks
--
The "bmoses-nospam" address is valid; no unmunging needed.