[A] Thud! Annotations
eschl...@gmail.com
By Edmund Schluessel
These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
and
now
here
comes
a
modicum
of
spoiler
space!
(pre-half title) - "500,000 years old" - Trollish writing
clearly predates Dwarfish and Human, as established in pre-existing DW
canon. Compare Dwarfish beliefs in this book.
1 - "Sam Vimes shaved himself." - Possibly a synthesis of the
well-known logical paradox "the barber shaves all those who do not
shave themselves; who shaves the barber?" and the question stated
many times in this book, "who watches the watchers?"
2 - "The steel was a lot better than the steel you got today" -
Dwarves make the best steel (see later at the well). Is the old steel
really better, or is Vimes seeing through rose-colored glasses, as he
will several times in this novel?
Ibid. - "Grag Hamcrusher" - My first guess for the origin of
this name is that, like Goodmountain in _The Truth_, Hamcrusher's
name may be a translation of the name of some famous demagogue from
Earth history. The best guess I have so far is "Ham" -> German
"Schenk" -> "Schinklgruber", a purported real name for Adolf
Hitler, but this seems a stretch.
Ibid. - "A cap-brim sewn with pennies" - British Special Forces
have been described as doing just such a thing for brawling; compare
also the deadly hat of Auric Goldfinger's henchman Oddjob in the
James Bond adventure _Goldfinger_.
4 - "Mr., er, Fizz" - first mentioned in _Monstrous Regiment_
as the Ankh Morpork Times' cartoonist.
5 - "Methodia Rascal" - What might be the origin of this name?
7 - "His ridiculous accent that grew thicker or thinner..." -
This is the well-documented linguistic phenomenon of "register
change", and is not necessarily done consciously.
8 - "Mr. Pessimal" - Possibly, this name is a portmanteau of
"pessimist" (or indeed "pessary") and "decimal". Pterry's
Dickensian character naming scheme continues to grow.
9 - "Do you know Mr. John Smith?" - the popular British
character of the Doctor in _Dr. Who_ occasionally goes by "Doctor
John Smith", and has worn colourful vests in many of his
incarnations. Compare also the vampires playing at being everyday
humans in _Carpe Jugulum_.
11 - "for thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances?" - From
this, we can conclude that it is possible to live a reasonably
middle-class lifestyle on thirty-eight $AM a month.
Ibid. - "You're not a vampire, Doreen!..." - compare the
inherited vampire couple in _Moving Pictures_.
12 - "Count Vargo St. Gruet von Vilinus!" - one of the battles
of Koom Valley took place in Vilinus Pass.
Ibid - "collects bananas" - See note for page 85.
Ibid - "Cockbill Street" - see _Feet of Clay_.
Ibid - "Salacia Deloresista Amanita..." - "Amanita" is a
genus of mushrooms containing many of the most toxic known.
"Zeldana" seems to be some kind of construction material.
17 - "Quid custodiet ipsos custodes?" - Juvenal, "Satires".
"Who shall guard the guardsmen?" but often translated as "who
watches the watchers?" either of which fits in an AM City Watch
context. The line's original contexts relates to locking up one's
wife in order to prevent her from cheating, followed by the fear that
she may be seduced by the guard watching her.
19 - "Fred Colon shook his head....'We knew what one another was
thinking...'" - not only is the Watch looking back on the
less-complicated days of _Guards, Guards!_, but Pterry himself may be
referring to the lighter, less developed style and content of his
earlier Watch novels.
20 - "Sarsaparilla" - An American soft drink brewed in part
from a bitter aromatic plant of the same name (genus Smilax).
21 - "Mr. Shine" - Probably this name has nothing to do with
the Pink Floyd epic "Shine On, You Crazy Diamond" from the _Wish
You Were Here_ album, but it might.
22 - "Gods damn the wretched place" - Blatant foreshadowing.
Ibid. - "at the Battle of Koom Valley that mutual hatred
became...Official" - Many interethnic rivalries are symbolized by a
single battle; one of the most relevant in our age is the Battle of
Kosovo Polje between Serbia and the Ottoman Empire, which, despite
having happened on 15 June, 1389, became of immediate importance during
the collapse of Yugoslavia in the 1990s. The outcome of the battle is
unknown but thought to have been a tactical draw, and the Serbian knez
and Ottoman sultan both died during the fight. Another battle of Kosovo
Polje was fought on the same spot in 1448.
23 - "The parades were okay" - in Northern Ireland,
nationalistic parades by both sides were once quite common both as a
display of pride and as a means of intimidation.
24 - "clang" - Compare the American affectation "bling",
gaudy jewelry ostensibly named from the sound of rattling platinum and
often associated with swagger, machismo, and ostentatious display.
Ibid - "Beware of the troll...." - This passage, although not
an actual quotation, follows the style of Adolf Hitler's _Mein
Kampf_.
30 - "Tawneee" - For comparison, the names of dancers at a US
strip club (The Camelot in Washington, DC): Alexis, Allisha, Amanda,
Amber, Angel, Angela, Anna, Becca, Beth, Beverly, Bo, Caprice, Carmen,
Chelsie, Dawn, Desiree, Devon, Diva, Grace, Kayla, Holiday, Idalys,
Jasmine, Brandy, J.J., Katya, Lynette, Marianne, Michelle, Mickey,
Rachelle 2, Rita, Robin, Sam, Sherrie, Sidney, Tamara, Zena. Compare
also the American actress Tawny Kitaen, born with the name Julie and
known for being associated with several celebrities.
Ibid - "pole-dancing" - the mazurka, a lively dance originating
in the Masurian Lakes region of northeastern Poland and performed in
3/4 time.
31 - "Two sequins and a bootlace" - In contrast to its other
virtues, Ankh-Morpork's dance bars are apparently non-nude (or at
least this one is).
Ibid. - "You're not supposed to put it anywhere, Sarge." - a
common rule of ecdysiastic establishments is an admonition against
touching the dancers.
33 - "attitude of a preoccupied chicken" - The
chicken-as-haunting-demon idea occurs thrice in _Thud!_ - in Sir
Reynold's role of what Sam Vimes should have known about earlier but
for his preoccupation, as Methodia Rascal's demon, and as Angua's
reminder of her incomplete civilization.
34 - "since his lordship held Views" - Compare Lord
Vetinari's attitude toward mimes; while generally not prone to
directly interfere in the workings of the city, he takes an active hand
in regulating its artistic life.
Ibid.- "fifty feet long" - and as a consequence about sixteen
feet in diameter. A painting in the round is properly termed a
"cyclorama" and the technique was invented in 1767 by Irish painter
Robert Barker; one of the most notable cycloramas is one by Paul D.
Philippoteaux depicting the Battle of Gettysburg, and another depicts
Waterloo. Most cycloramas are considerably greater in circumference
than "The Battle of Koom Valley".
36 - "Don't Talk to Me About Mondays" - Possibly a collision
of Garfield the Cat's "I hate Mondays" (or the Boomtown Rats'
"I Don't Like Mondays") and Marvin the Paranoid Android's
"Life? Don't talk to me about life."
39 - "No urns" - A quick browse through several important
Odalisques haven't found any with urns, although one does appear in
Michaelangelo's "The Drunkenness of Noah".
40 - "The Goddess Anoia Arising from the Cutlery" - clearly
similar to Sandro Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus". Anoia first
appears in _Going Postal_.
Ibid. - "The Koom Valley Codex" - Dan Browne's _The Da Vinci
Code_, despite (or perhaps because of) being pseudomystical drivel, was
a world-wide bestseller in 2003 and quickly inspired a film. The book,
a highly sensationalistic work concerning supposed hidden knowledge in
the Roman Catholic church regarding the true nature of the
Resurrection, involves the murder of someone aware of this knowledge in
order to keep it hidden, along with keys hidden in Da Vinci paintings.
44 - "She had short hair...a girl who wouldn't mind passing for
one" - Sally may be written with some lesbian subtext. Contrast
Maledicta from _Monstrous Regiment_.
45 - "Any history....throat biting" - Sally was apparently
born, not made, a vampire.
47 - "I have crumbled and I can't get up" - The phrase
"I've fallen, and I can't get up!" originated in an American
commercial for LifeCall, a medical emergency alert service.
50 - "War, Nobby. Huh! What is it good for?...." - This passage
parodies Edwin Starr's 1970 Vietnam War protest song, "War".
Contrast the use of "Fixin' to Die Rag" in _Monstrous Regiment_.
Also note that Colon and Nobby are both veterans of the Ankh
Morpork-Klatch war in _Jingo_.
51 - "COPERS ARE BARSTUDS" - compare the corruption of
"bastard" to "brass stud" in _Feet of Clay_.
52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for _Going
Postal_.
54 - "Once some madman finds out..." - possibly a reference to
Carcer from _Night Watch_.
55 - "Gooseberry"; "Bluenose" - the BlackBerry is a series
of handheld personal digital assistants manufactured by Research In
Motion Limited of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. Many models incorporate
the Bluetooth specification for wireless networking.
56 - "Splong!" - "Pong", commonly known as the first video
game, experienced a resurgence in popularity, as did other classic
video games, as the popularization of handheld computerized assistants
increased the demand for simple time-passing games that consumed little
memory and could be displayed on a low-resolution screen.
Ibid - "iHUM" - Apple's iPod device for storing and playing
music became so popular in the early 2000s that I probably had no good
reason for writing this annotation. Oh well.
57 - "Ankh-Morpork is mostly built on Ankh-Morpork" - first
revealed in _The Truth_.
58 - "where does that lead?" - Vimes' resolution to avoid
taking the first step down a slippery slope is another theme developed
in this book.
61 - "Let 'em laugh....At least they're not throwing things"
- compare the description of Otto Chriek's "music-hall vampire"
act on page 7.
62 - "a circle with a horizontal line through it" - Such a
glyph is the symbol of Transport For London in general and the London
Underground, the oldest and largest metro system in the world, in
specific.
63 - "another circle, this time with two diagonal lines slashed
through it" - Depending on how one interprets this passage, this
glyph could be equivalent to the "No Parking" or "No Stopping"
road signs, or the "Restriction End" sign.
64 - "dusty black sedan chairs....There were no windows" - the
kings of Persia during the Classical era travelled in closed-off sedan
chairs in order that they might never be seen by common folk; the kings
of France, meanwhile, are reputed to have travelled in closed-off
carriages so as not to see the land outside their palaces.
65 - "daylight face" - Helmclever, like Fred Colon, is a
liaison officer.
65 FN - "if only the pawns united..." The _Dr. Who_ serial "The
Curse of Fenric" includes a chess problem whose resolution requires
the pawns joining together and turning against the king; recall also
the Vimes family's history of regicide.
66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture
in Europe.
69 - "They had been building with stone here ten thousand years
ago" - Compare the age of the Trollish writing noted at the
beginning of the book.
70 - "small deer" -Ardent may mean "deer" in its more
archaic sense of any forest-dwelling creature. Compare the Trollish
word "oograh".
71 - "you're undermining my city?" - Quite literally; watch
this metaphor.
73 - "You destroy written words?" - Compare Judaism, many of
whose Orthodox adherents refuse to write the name of God for fear it
might be destroyed or disrespected.
76 - "The grags are the law....They interpret laws" - the role
of grags is akin to that of mullahs or imams in Islam, or rabbis in
Judaism; as contrasted with those of priests and ministers in
Christianity, who usually enforce laws set centrally, either by the
Pope or by church synods.
79 - "giant wooly elephants" - Brick's psychedelic
experiences possibly belie a latent psychic spiritual ability; in this
instance he has seen the distant past.
Ibid. - "metamorphorical rock" - another portmanteau: of
"metamorphic", as in rock that changes under intense pressure and
heat; and "metaphorical".
81 - "plum-cake mob" - presumably, a mass of dense but
generally bland and indistinguishable individuals riddled with
troublemaking raisins.
83 - "deep-down dwarfs" - "deep down" speaks to the word
"fundamental", via Latin "fundamentum". Another meaning of
"fundament" is, according to Webster's Dictionary, "the part of
a land surface that has not been altered by human activities".
Ibid. - "The brighter the light the blacker the shadow?" -
compare the "dark light" of _The Truth_.
84 footnote - "In, Out, and Shake It All About" - three motions
performed in the party dance the "Hokey Pokey" or "Hokey
Cokey".
85 - "If you're not an apple, you're a banana..." - Apples
and bananas appear throughout the book. I'm still trying to figure
out if this is a legitimate metaphor for the division of one society
into two different but not intrinsically opposed groups, or just a red
herring.
91 - "That was what made the Watch a police force..." - See
note for page 19. This passage may be another metareference to the
growth of the Watch since _Guards, Guards!_.
92 - "small loaf of dwarf bread" - Is this from _Feet of Clay_?
Ibid. - "The imp was a very pale green" - possibly a reference
to Beastie, the demon icon of the BSD operating system.
94 - "...not because he had a huge interest in the results..."
- Contrast how, in _Night Watch_, Vimes has an exact idea of the
tonnages of foodstuffs consumed by the city.
96 - "They were baaad trolls. At least, they'd like everyone to
think so." - Many of the street gangs in United States history were
ethnic in origin and competed primarily with gangs of other
ethnicities.
99 - "Der Pork Futures Warehouse" - First seen in _Men at
Arms_.
100 - "you're on the side of the people" - Another contrast
with _Night Watch_, in which Vimes dismisses the idea of "the
people" as a conceit.
101 - "Er...permission t'speak freely...." - Recall, in this
passage, that Detritus's first partner was a dwarf.
102 - "It looked like a city" - A city or house is employed as
an image representing the mind at least as far back as C.G. Jung's
_Man and His Symbols_. More recently, Stephen King's _Dreamcatcher_
(novel 2001, film 2003) features the character of Jonesy being pursued
through the metaphorical streets of his hometown by an alien trying to
take him over.
Ibid. - "who had never drifted close to a major accretion..." -
Compare the origin of gods in _Small Gods_ and the notion of inspirons
in _Men at Arms_.
104 - "'Baaa!' said Vimes" - Is this simply Vimes
shivering, or is he subconsciously projecting _Where's My Cow_?
109 - "Sediment'ry trash" - i.e., not metamorphorical.
114 - "Vimes was a runner by nature" - compare _Guards,
Guards!_ and the basics of Watch survival in the bad old days.
119 - "various approximations of the hour..." - compare the
clattering of bells in _Night Watch_.
122 - "Buglit!" - The 2004 film "Meet the Fockers" contains
a similar gag. Note that this telling of the Vimes street version
differs somewhat from that portrayed in _Where's My Cow?_
132 - "You've laid rails?" - see note for Page 62.
134 - "Lips that touch Ichor shall never touch Mine" - The
temperance anthem "lips that touch wine shall never touch mine". I
have no idea where it comes from. Recall that Vimes is a recovering
alcoholic, and contrast his attitude toward the Black Ribboners - he
thinks a word against the movement, no matter what he feels about
vampires in general - with Angua's.
136 - "with only a slit for the eyes" - compare the burqa worn
by conservative Muslim women.
138 - "Even the river catches fire in a hot summer!" - the
Cuyahoga River, which runs through eastern Ohio in the United States,
was so polluted that it caught fire on several occasions between 1936
and 1969. It's better now.
Ibid. - "Trolls don't clean their feet much..." - compare
_Feet of Clay_, in which tracked mud is one of the most important
clues.
139 - "Vilinus Pass" - see note for page 12.
140 - "When we have our Koom Valley...burned to the ground". The
first part of this passage foreshadows Otto's appearance at the end
of the book; the last sentence takes us all the way back to the opening
of _The Color of Magic_.
Ibid. - "Humans would have gone insane living like that..." -
The 2003 novel _Coalescent_ by Stephen Baxter describes the society of
humans living in just such circumstances.
144 - "That'd fill a big room!" - Loam (see page 212) has a
density of around 1.3 grams per cubic centimetre; 40 Imperial tons of
loam would take up about 30 cubic meters.
Ibid. - "...write-only documents." - When I was applying to
Cambridge, all of the forms I had to submit were in at least
triplicate; some were in sextuplicate. I was assured by people I know
within the university's bureaucracy that at most one of any of those
would ever be seen by human eyes.
145 - "The Plaza of Broken Moons" - Rincewind and Twoflower
have lunch here in _The Color of Magic_.
146 - "...eats the apple and the banana." - see note for page
85.
147 - "tomato ketchup is not a vegetable." - During Ronald
Reagan's presidency in the United States, the Department of
Agriculture, setting nutritional standards for public school lunches,
famously published rules under which a serving of tomato ketchup could
be counted as a "vegetable". The rule was retracted after much
popular ridicule; during the Clinton administration, however, salsa
(which, if prepared correctly, does have a substantial nutritional
content) was classified as a serving of vegetables under the same
conditions.
149 - "It didn't get political on you" - Recall that the plot
in _Guards, Guards!_ was explicitly political, concerning a conspiracy
to replace Vetinari.
152 - "When push came to shove...removed was yours." - Recall
the citizen militia of _Night Watch_.
155 - "numknuts" - akin, of course, to nunchaku (popularly
nunchucks), a Chinese flail consisting of two wooden shafts connected
by a chain or cord.
158 - "Lengths of wood...a line in the sand." - The origin of
the word "barricade" is, in fact, "collection of barrels".
166 - "...the mouthwash was afterwards never strong enough." -
A wolf eating a dog would be cannibalism, or almost.
166 footnote - "Empirical Crescent...all this by accident." -
It is notable that B.S. Johnson's works, which started out as merely
inept in earlier books, have developed into quasi-magical perversions
of the very fabric of space and time. Compare also Robert Heinlein's
1941 short story "-And He Built A Crooked House-".
169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." - Compare
"borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as described in
_Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average vampire bat doesn't
weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty *might* just
barely weigh 40 pounds.
171 - "A paying audience?" - Pterry may, in this passage, be
playing with the slash fiction community reading this book.
181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
183 - "Lance Constable von Humpeding needs an apple, urgently."
- see note for page 85. It has to mean *something*, dammit.
193 - "pull der other one, it is havin' bells on." - it might
be interesting, or at least pleasingly obsesssssssive, to compile a
list of all the times this phrase or its variants appear in Discworld.
198 - "All dem dancin' teef!" - This is a reference to
something, but I don't remember what and most of my books are still
in America. Help?
201 - "It what you 'scrape up'...pigeon droppings" -
compare the recipe for crack cocaine. Also, pigeon droppings are loaded
with phosphates; this may tie in to what is known about trollish
petrochemistry.
204 - "A wukwuk is what you make wi' charcoal an' niter an'
Slab" - Charcoal and niter (potassium nitrate) constitute two main
ingredients of gunpowder; compare Ridcully's recipe for Wow-Wow
Sauce.
205 - "Someone's pinched the secret of fire, have you seen my
golden apple?" - Fingers-Mazda is recorded in _Men at Arms_ as
having stolen fire from the Gods. The golden *falchion* was stolen from
Astoria in Ephebian legend, as stated in (I think) _Small Gods_. See
again the note for page 85.
206 - "No. 3 Tenth Egg Street" - Tenth Egg Street is previously
referred to as the home base of Willikins's boyhood street gang.
210 - "Just Sex, Pussy Galore and No Brainer" - presumably, a
Sex on the Beach without the beach. Since the "beach" is, in that
drink, the pseudotropical blend of cranberry & grapefruit juices,
"Just Sex" would be the remaining vodka and peach schnapps. There
is also a cocktail called the "Brain Eraser" which may relate to
the third: Goldschlager (cinnamon schnapps), Kahlua, and vodka.
"Pussy Galore", meanwhile, is - well, if you haven't seen
"Goldfinger" by now, go and rent it.
211 - "Are you telling me you're two people? With one body?"
- contrast Miss Level from _A Hat Full Of Sky_, who is one person
with two bodies. Indeed, while we're on the subject, compare the
symptoms of infection by the Following Dark in this book with those of
the Hiver in that one.
214 - "I can regulate the temperature of my brain by reflecting all
heat" - In addition to being the hardest substance known to
science, diamond has the additional property of being the best thermal
conductor known to science. This fact is important because it's not
enough for Mr. Shine to reflect heat from the environment, but also to
dispose of heat he generates through the very act of thinking.
224 - "There was the sound of tinkling glass..." - Recall the
ease with which Vimes has foiled a multitude of Assassins' attempts
on his life in previous novels. On the other hand, no Assassin would
think of digging up through the floor; he might get non-black on him.
225 - "in accordance with some butlerian duty" - Possibly an
oblique reference to the "Butlerian jihad" against sentient
machines in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series.
229 - "two iron boots were cooling from white heat in a puddle of
molten sand." - There's a Bond film where an evil female villain
is killed with some kind of projectile explosive, leaving only a pair
of smoking high heels, but I can't remember the details. Also compare
the vaporization of victims in _Guards, Guards!_.
231 - "They will burn for what they did....They shall bur-" -
The increasing influence of the Following Dark on Vimes is illustrated
by Vimes changing from from the declarative "will burn" to the
imperative "shall burn".
Ibid. - "hi-ho, hi-ho" - The "Hiho Song" appears
spontaneously in dwarfish culture in _Moving Pictures_.
233 - "There is green around his mouth, sir." - Possibly
arsenic. The use of suicide attackers in the modern world is,
unfortunately, well-known; recall that this book was published after,
but written before, the 7/7/2005 London Transit bombings. The use of
slow poison by an assassin, however, may originate with the original
series _Star Trek_ episode "Journey to Babel".
242 - "I'm not a bondage kind of person" - See note for page
171.
249 - "And you are Setha Ironcrust....Gimlet Gimlet....Yo Rat!"
- We see Ironcrust's bakeries in _Feet of Clay_ and Gimlet in
_Moving Pictures_. "Yo Rat!" plays on "Yo! Sushi", a chain of
quick Japanese restaurants located throughout London.
249 - "Bashfull Bashfullsson" - another traditional name; see
Cheery Littlebottom's introduction in _Feet of Clay_.
253 footnote - "Poosticks" - "Poohsticks" is a game played
by dwellers of the Hundred Acre Wood in the _Winnie-the-Pooh_ stories
by A. A. Milne.
254 - "Thank God It's Open" - TGIO refers to the American
chain "T.G.I. Friday's", known as a chain of family-dining
restaurants in the USA but with a few dozen locations in the United
Kingdom. UK T.G.I. Friday's have retained the chain's original
reputation, as a restaurant open late and with overpriced fruity
cocktails.
Ibid. - "Screaming Orgasm" - An actual drink: on Earth,
Amaretto (almond liqueur), Kahlua (sweet coffee liqueur), Baileys Irish
Cream (whiskey and cream), and vodka (distilled death). In short, a
strongly alcoholic, unbelievably sweet, dark headache in a glass.
(Serve in a lowball glass over ice with an umbrella). Note also that
Bearhuggers, a brand of whiskey we've seen before in _Guards,
Guards!_ and _Men at Arms_, is, like Baileys, spelled without an
apostrophe.
256 - "no woman under fifty uses the word 'bosom'" - Sally,
recall, is 51.
260 - "the voice of B'hrian Bloodaxe" - see the note for page
29 in _The Fifth Elephant_. Recall that in that book, B'hrian's
reign was fifteen hundred years ago; now it is, apparently, two
thousand.
266 - "All I've got is yung Helmclever here..." - Ironically,
Helmclever's statement as recorded might become admissible as a dying
declaration. (IANAL)
269 - "Fun. What is it good for?" - See note for page 50.
273 - "And they were laying rails..." - See note for page 62.
278 - "'Have you ever been up to the attics here, Sam?'
'No!'" - How long has Sam lived in this house, and he still
hasn't seen every room? Compare the Jungian image of the house noted
on page 102.
279 - "Serves you right for drinking...vine" - See annotations
for page 54 of _Carpe Jugulum_ and page 30 of _Monstrous Regiment_.
281 - "APPLE CORES, VARIOUS" - see note for page 85 again.
Honestly, I have nothing better to do.
Ibid. - "lacrosse sticks" - Lacrosse being a sport which in our
world originated among the natives of northeastern North America, I am
interested to know its Discworld origins.
Ibid. footnote - "He was just puzzled at the suggestion that he was
there to do the food a favor." - compare the Dish of the Day in
Douglas Adams' _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_.
286 - "I don't even have a galli!" - possibly a play on the
Latin for "chicken", "gallus" - Vimes is running off without
even a chicken to guide him. Or something.
291 - "Generations of rascally drunk student wizards..." - We
see these loose bricks in _Equal Rites_ and again in _Soul Music_.
295 - "It was slow, but never stopped following." - Compare Mr.
Pump's steady, relentless pursuit in _Going Postal_.
297 - "Something happens at thirteen miles an hour." - Possibly
a reference to the 88 miles an hour of "Back to the Future"; see
annotations for _Soul Music_.
298 - "there's seven broomsticks nailed underneath each coach."
- Compare how Moist von Lipwig pointedly did not use a broomstick in
the final race in _Going Postal_.
299 - "his marriage to Ruby" - Ruby first appears in _Moving
Pictures_.
300 - "Signed the message 'Aicalas'." - Compare Mr. Soak in
_Thief of Time_, but particularly see the note for page 8 of _Carpe
Jugulum_.
302 - "It was said that even clouds kept away from the desolation
that was Koom Valley." - It is more likely, however, that this is
an example of "rain shadow", the tendency of clouds to stop at
mountain ranges rather than go over, as is so well-known to the
inhabitants of northwestern England.
Ibid. - "many had ever been found again" -The first American
printing contains a number of typographical errors, especially near the
end.
304 - "And there was a fifth horse....The part of a horse that was,
in fact, Horse." - exactly this same image appears in _A Hat Full
of Sky_.
305 - "Perhaps sound was unable to keep up." - The speed of
sound in normal air is around 750 miles an hour.
312 - "The landscape ahead was strangely bluish..." - Compare
the change in colors seen in similar circumstances in _Thief of Time_,
and also recall the "slow light" of the Discworld.
Ibid. - "I fink my brain's still back home." - There's a
quotation from _The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ about how no
matter how fast the body travels, the soul travels as fast as something
or other...I don't have my copy close to hand.
Ibid. - "It's amazing how the inn's beer helped recovery."
- There are two schools of thought about alcoholism, one that a
recovering alcoholic must never drink again and another that moderation
can be learned. Vimes apparently follows the second school; or
possibly, strong liquor counts differently
Ibid. footnote - "it was all blamed on people from another world"
- For some reason, UFOs are sometimes blamed for mysterious
mutilations of cattle.
314 - "the local town of Ham-on-Koom" - Given that "ham"
means "town" and "koom" is already (see note for _Soul Music_
page 330) established as being a play on the Welsh "cwm",
"valley", we have here a town near a valley whose name means
"town on valley".
317 - "Campfires from the valley...." - A few ways to go here.
On the one hand, it might be a reference to the civilian observers who
watched the Battle of Bull Run (1861) as if it were an afternoon's
entertainment; or on the other, to the early arrivals at CCDE looking
for a good spot; or on the other other hand, it could be just taken at
face value.
318 - "Only we do it with people dressing up...." - Recall the
Thud club where Vimes meets Mr. Shine earlier, and also that Nobby is a
member of the Peeled Nuts; see annotation for page 68 of _Feet of
Clay_.
327 - "It had been like that little voice that whispers
'Jump'" - See note for page 102 regarding _Small Gods_.
328 - "HAS IT NEVER STRUCK YOU..." - Death is speaking in
meta-references here, almost hinting that he knows Vimes is a character
in a book. Also, the fact that Death appears here, but *not* in the
opening passage on page 1, is a metareferential clue: Hamcrusher must
already be dead; compare the opening appearance of Death in other Watch
novels.
354 - "he spoke fluent Chicken" - possibly a reference to the
surreal webcomic _The Parking Lot Is Full_, which featured one strip in
which civilization is ended by a linguist who invents a language called
"Chicken".
354 - "The first thyng Tak did, he wroten hymself...." - The
archaic spelling and verb endings draw on Middle English.
355 - "Then Tak looked upon the stone...." - This passage of
arcana parallels the hidden arcana of _The Da Vinci Code_. See note for
page 40.
359 - "It would be a lot simpler...if this was a story." - See
note for page 328.
361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
367 - "Sixty men...." - A current complement of less than 180,
then. Of course, some of these new recruits will be behind desks rather
than on the street.
Alister
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
> 9 - "Do you know Mr. John Smith?" - the popular British
> character of the Doctor in _Dr. Who_ occasionally goes by "Doctor
> John Smith", and has worn colourful vests in many of his
> incarnations. Compare also the vampires playing at being everyday
> humans in _Carpe Jugulum_.
I doubt that Pterry is being so precise. "John Smith" is a well known
catch-all pseudonym for any male wishing to be inconspicuous.
(As are Fred Bloggs, A.N. Other etc)
> Ibid. - "You're not a vampire, Doreen!..." - compare the
> inherited vampire couple in _Moving Pictures_.
Same person AFAIK.
> 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture
> in Europe.
I always thought Dwarfs = North/Middle Europeans possibly Germanic.
Arabian culture is surely Klatchian?
> 85 - "If you're not an apple, you're a banana..." - Apples
> and bananas appear throughout the book. I'm still trying to figure
> out if this is a legitimate metaphor for the division of one society
> into two different but not intrinsically opposed groups, or just a red
> herring.
Everyone knows Bananananas are fish - just like red herrings. ;-)
> 155 - "numknuts" - akin, of course, to nunchaku (popularly
> nunchucks), a Chinese flail consisting of two wooden shafts connected
> by a chain or cord.
And also, of course, the likely outcome of their use!!
Alastair.
Jenny Delaney
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
>
> this, we can conclude that it is possible to live a reasonably
> middle-class lifestyle on thirty-eight $AM a month.
>
> Ibid. - "You're not a vampire, Doreen!..." - compare the
> inherited vampire couple in _Moving Pictures_.
It's actually Reaper Man that has Doreen and her husband at the Fresh
Start Club.
> Ibid - "pole-dancing" - the mazurka, a lively dance originating
> in the Masurian Lakes region of northeastern Poland and performed in
> 3/4 time.
Not to mention the fact that pole dancing is, of course, a speciality of
strip clubs (and is both very tricky to do well - hence Tawnee's pride
in her ability to do the Triple Corkscrew - and rather painful for the
dancer's hands and thighs!)
> 134 - "Lips that touch Ichor shall never touch Mine" - The
> temperance anthem "lips that touch wine shall never touch mine". I
> have no idea where it comes from. Recall that Vimes is a recovering
> alcoholic, and contrast his attitude toward the Black Ribboners - he
> thinks a word against the movement, no matter what he feels about
> vampires in general - with Angua's.
I thought it was "lips that touch liquor shall never touch mine"?
Apparently written by GW Young.
> 166 footnote - "Empirical Crescent...all this by accident." -
> It is notable that B.S. Johnson's works, which started out as merely
> inept in earlier books, have developed into quasi-magical perversions
> of the very fabric of space and time. Compare also Robert Heinlein's
> 1941 short story "-And He Built A Crooked House-".
Sorcha's already pointed out the analogy with places such as the Royal
Crescent in Bath - I'll add in that they're notoriously badly built,
since Georgian terraces usually didn't have proper foundations.
> 171 - "A paying audience?" - Pterry may, in this passage, be
> playing with the slash fiction community reading this book.
Mud wrestling is a more likely annotation in this case.
> 181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
> like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
> rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
> Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
Also, the reference to cake mix is probably a reference to Betty Crocker
- less well known in the UK.
> 206 - "No. 3 Tenth Egg Street" - Tenth Egg Street is previously
> referred to as the home base of Willikins's boyhood street gang.
It's where the troll gang who are too thick to come up with a nickname
are based.
> 225 - "in accordance with some butlerian duty" - Possibly an
> oblique reference to the "Butlerian jihad" against sentient
> machines in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series.
Although the unflappability of a good butler is legendary - there's a
story from the Irish war of independence which involved a very po-faced
butler saying "and who shall I say called?" to the IRA as they arrived
to burn down the house where he worked. And Willikins is a very good
butler indeed.
Jenny
Pussinspooks
like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
Wasn't Nobby himself once a somewhat exotic dancer called 'Beti'?
Stacie Hanes
> 181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
> like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
> rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
> Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
.
.Minor spoiler for Jingo
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I think "Beti" only threatened to dance.
> ______________
> Wasn't Nobby himself once a somewhat exotic dancer called 'Beti'?
--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
Arthur Hagen
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
>
> this name is that, like Goodmountain in _The Truth_, Hamcrusher's
> name may be a translation of the name of some famous demagogue from
> Earth history. The best guess I have so far is "Ham" -> German
> "Schenk" -> "Schinklgruber", a purported real name for Adolf
> Hitler, but this seems a stretch.
Well, crushing ham is like whopping ass too, only more so.
> 20 - "Sarsaparilla" - An American soft drink brewed in part
> from a bitter aromatic plant of the same name (genus Smilax).
ITYM root beer, which indeed is brewed with sarsaparilla. There's also
Moxie, which was the favourite of president Teddy Roosevelt. Its taste
can best be described as a mix between ginger ale and diesel oil, which
is probably why it now can't easily be found outside of New England.
> 22 - "Gods damn the wretched place" - Blatant foreshadowing.
> Ibid - "Beware of the troll...." - This passage, although not
> an actual quotation, follows the style of Adolf Hitler's _Mein
> Kampf_.
Beware the greek (when bearing gifts).
Or the modern equivalent: Beware the geek (when bearing gifs).
> Ibid - "pole-dancing" - the mazurka, a lively dance originating
> in the Masurian Lakes region of northeastern Poland and performed in
> 3/4 time.
Um, pole dancing is a rather common phenomenon in strip joints. And no,
I don't mean mazurka...
> Ibid.- "fifty feet long" - and as a consequence about sixteen
> feet in diameter. A painting in the round is properly termed a
> "cyclorama" and the technique was invented in 1767 by Irish painter
> Robert Barker; one of the most notable cycloramas is one by Paul D.
> Philippoteaux depicting the Battle of Gettysburg, and another depicts
> Waterloo. Most cycloramas are considerably greater in circumference
> than "The Battle of Koom Valley".
My problem is that it's consistently referred to as a mural. I really
fail to see how they could flatten out a cylindrical mural without
breaking it, or cutting it out and rolling it up like a carpet either.
Or doesn't mural mean the same thing everywhere -- a painting on an
immobile surface (usually a wall, thus the name)?
> 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture
> in Europe.
I'd say Scandinavian culture, not Arabic. The Arabs are already
associated with Klatch, and Scandinavians with Dwarfs (thus names like
Bjorn). Why would they be good at making coffee? Because they drink a
LOT more coffee than any others, that's why.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_cof_con
http://www.coffeeresearch.org/market/consumption.htm
Most non-Scandinavians also think of Gevalia as good coffee.
> 198 - "All dem dancin' teef!" - This is a reference to
> something, but I don't remember what and most of my books are still
> in America. Help?
A rather famous Gterry animation.
> 229 - "two iron boots were cooling from white heat in a puddle of
> molten sand." - There's a Bond film where an evil female villain
> is killed with some kind of projectile explosive, leaving only a pair
> of smoking high heels, but I can't remember the details.
It's a common cartoon device.
> 254 - "Thank God It's Open" - TGIO refers to the American
> chain "T.G.I. Friday's", known as a chain of family-dining
> restaurants in the USA
Really? It's known as a meat market around here (CT), with booze being
the main feature.
> 297 - "Something happens at thirteen miles an hour." - Possibly
> a reference to the 88 miles an hour of "Back to the Future"; see
> annotations for _Soul Music_.
Or rather the Discworld equivalent of the sound barrier.
> Ibid. - "many had ever been found again" -The first American
> printing contains a number of typographical errors, especially near
> the end.
Nothing is as bad as the ebook, though. I'm still waiting for word that
the typesetter has committed seppuku.
> 305 - "Perhaps sound was unable to keep up." - The speed of
> sound in normal air is around 750 miles an hour.
The Discworld is different -- see above.
> 312 - "The landscape ahead was strangely bluish..." - Compare
> the change in colors seen in similar circumstances in _Thief of Time_,
> and also recall the "slow light" of the Discworld.
Doppler effect on light, with a noticable redshift/blueshift.
Regards,
--
*Art
RuneMaster
<Excised>
> 17 - "Quid custodiet ipsos custodes?" - Juvenal, "Satires".
> "Who shall guard the guardsmen?" but often translated as "who
> watches the watchers?" either of which fits in an AM City Watch
> context. The line's original contexts relates to locking up one's
> wife in order to prevent her from cheating, followed by the fear that
> she may be seduced by the guard watching her.
>
The Latin is a bit more subtle/complex than that. "Quid custodiet
custodes" by itself would mean just "who will watch the watchers?" The
addition of the reflexive word "ipsos" changes the meaning to "Who will
watch the selfsame watchers", i.e. who, being a guardian (implied: for
other people/property etc.), can properly be tasked to guard themselves?
The idea that any security force needs its own watchers is (in my opinion)
well developed in Harry Harrison's novel "Rebel in Time", but also appears
in Rob Heinlein's works and I assume, many others. ITV - I seem to recall,
did a drama series on the Police Investegation section with Siobhan
Redmond in Between the Lines which had a QCIC plotline.
--
Use common sense to reply
"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
conservative"
John Stuart Mill, English economist & philosopher, 1809 - 1873
flobert
>Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
>By Edmund Schluessel
>
>These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
>and
>
>now
>
>here
>
>comes
>
>a
>
>modicum
>
>of
>
>spoiler
>
>space!
>
Some that have been mentioned in other threads, but i've left some
comments on others.
>2 - "The steel was a lot better than the steel you got today" -
>Dwarves make the best steel (see later at the well). Is the old steel
>really better, or is Vimes seeing through rose-colored glasses, as he
>will several times in this novel?
To many, modern mass produced steel is inferior in quality to the hand
crafcted and cared for steel of ages past, especially when it comes to
blades. Ancient japanese swords for isntance.
>
>31 - "Two sequins and a bootlace" - In contrast to its other
>virtues, Ankh-Morpork's dance bars are apparently non-nude (or at
>least this one is).
Or indeed, the standard the g-string and tiny triangle bikini's worn
when they're 'dressed' at such clubs. There are later allusions to her
being topless.
>
>181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
>like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
>rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
>Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
Or maybe the Exotic dancer 'Betti' played by Corporal Nobbs in Jingo
>
>183 - "Lance Constable von Humpeding needs an apple, urgently."
>- see note for page 85. It has to mean *something*, dammit.
A big red rosy juicy apple. Something firm and fleshy, and
appropriately coloured, and probably easier to get hold of that rat
fillet or blutwurst.
>211 - "Are you telling me you're two people? With one body?"
>- contrast Miss Level from _A Hat Full Of Sky_, who is one person
>with two bodies. Indeed, while we're on the subject, compare the
>symptoms of infection by the Following Dark in this book with those of
>the Hiver in that one.
Or indeed Altogether Andrews, who is many people in one head (Soul
Music)
>225 - "in accordance with some butlerian duty" - Possibly an
>oblique reference to the "Butlerian jihad" against sentient
>machines in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series.
Thats really stretching things. The jihad was against, iirc, all
complicated calculating machines, not just sentient ones (hence the
development of mentats). Can't see how this ties in, when its clearly
refereing to the duties of the Butler
>
>229 - "two iron boots were cooling from white heat in a puddle of
>molten sand." - There's a Bond film where an evil female villain
>is killed with some kind of projectile explosive, leaving only a pair
>of smoking high heels, but I can't remember the details. Also compare
>the vaporization of victims in _Guards, Guards!_.
Common comedy illustration (eg daffy duck, road runner) of the smoking
boots.
>
>233 - "There is green around his mouth, sir." - Possibly
>arsenic. The use of suicide attackers in the modern world is,
>unfortunately, well-known; recall that this book was published after,
>but written before, the 7/7/2005 London Transit bombings. The use of
>slow poison by an assassin, however, may originate with the original
>series _Star Trek_ episode "Journey to Babel".
Its been around a lot longer than that. i seem to recall (from the dim
and distant past that includes my history GCSE) that often special
missiosn in the ottoman empire were performed by men who take a slow
poisen. It avoided capture and interogation, and sometimes the
antidote was supplied after a successfull completion. Gives no end of
motivation for mission completion.
>
>278 - "'Have you ever been up to the attics here, Sam?'
>'No!'" - How long has Sam lived in this house, and he still
>hasn't seen every room? Compare the Jungian image of the house noted
>on page 102.
Except its not his house, its Pseudopolis yard.
>291 - "Generations of rascally drunk student wizards..." - We
>see these loose bricks in _Equal Rites_ and again in _Soul Music_.
Actually, first in Light Fantastic, as Rincewind levers out the bricks
at the end.
>305 - "Perhaps sound was unable to keep up." - The speed of
>sound in normal air is around 750 miles an hour.
730 iirc, at sea level.
>
>312 - "The landscape ahead was strangely bluish..." - Compare
>the change in colors seen in similar circumstances in _Thief of Time_,
>and also recall the "slow light" of the Discworld.
Actually, its a standard physics effect called doppler-shift. Used a
lot in astronomical observation to detect if things are gong towards
or away from us.
>Ibid. - "It's amazing how the inn's beer helped recovery."
>- There are two schools of thought about alcoholism, one that a
>recovering alcoholic must never drink again and another that moderation
>can be learned. Vimes apparently follows the second school; or
>possibly, strong liquor counts differently
... despite the 'not one drop' philosophy related in T5E
>
>361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
Another diamond, other hard material - diamond is not universally
hard, its cyrstaline structure means it can have fracture points, an
dareas that can be cut away. Iron is softer than many types of rock,
but you can still use iron to carve that harder rock.
gem...@tpg.com.au
Terry was mentioning things purely for the sake of pointing out that yes,
he hadn't forgotten the Discworld's little oddities, and all you pedants
can put a sock in it, so there?
Some examples:
References to the Discworld's speeds of sound and light
Deliberate mention of "24/8" - eight days in a DW week
Being able to see Cori Celesti
There was also the rather subtle pun of the appearance of the fifth horse.
Vimes hadn't wanted the wizards to provide anything weird-looking to
travel in; he'd just, in effect, asked for more Horsepower...
-SteveD
Vincent Oberheim
news:MPG.1db39ca7b...@news.iol.ie...
> In article <1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> eschl...@gmail.com said...
>> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>
>> By Edmund Schluessel
>>
>> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>>
>> and
>>
>> now
>>
>> here
>>
>> comes
>>
>> a
>>
>> modicum
>>
>> of
>>
>> spoiler
>>
>> space!
>>
>>
>> as the Ankh Morpork Times' cartoonist.
>>
>> 5 - "Methodia Rascal" - What might be the origin of this name?
>>
I'm not sure about the name, but Googling for 'battle' and 'painting' brings
up these two example of highly detailed depictions of battles.
http://www.armory.com/~alexia/trip/moscow-jpg/Borodino-Painting-1.jpg
http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/mcardle/paintings/sanjac.html
Vincent
___________________
English: Eggs is eggs.
French: An oeuf is an oeuf.
German: An ei for an ei.
Geoff Field
> eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>
>> By Edmund Schluessel
>>
>> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>>
>> and
>>
>> now
>>
>> here
>>
>> comes
>>
>> a
>>
>> modicum
>>
>> of
>>
>> spoiler
>>
>> space!
>>
>
>> 155 - "numknuts" - akin, of course, to nunchaku (popularly
>> nunchucks), a Chinese flail consisting of two wooden shafts connected
>> by a chain or cord.
>
> And also, of course, the likely outcome of their use!!
Minor pedant point - they're actually Japanese, rather than Chinese.
It might not matter to you, but it certainly did to my Chinese Kung-Fu
instructors many years ago. They taught weapons, but refused to even
discuss the Japanese ones.
And, of course, if you've ever seen "They Call Me Bruce", you'll know
that they're actually chopsticks for big eaters...
Sorry, they're for husking corn.
Similarly, Tonfa (after which police batons are modelled) were handles
for millstones.
Back in the day, Japanese peasants weren't allowed to have weapons,
but they were allowed all sorts of agricultural implements...
Geoff
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Rhiannon Sands
> In article <434997fc...@news.demon.co.uk>, jo...@gelsalba.co.uk
> said...
> > >
> > >By Edmund Schluessel
> > >
> > >These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> > >Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> > >paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
> > >
> > >and
> > >
> > >now
> > >
> > >here
> > >
> > >comes
> > >
> > >a
> > >
> > >modicum
> > >
> > >of
> > >
> > >spoiler
> > >
> > >space!
> >
>
> > >169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." - Compare
> > >"borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as described in
> > >_Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average vampire bat doesn't
> > >weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty *might* just
> > >barely weigh 40 pounds.
> >
> > This puzzles me - all previous vampires have turned from human form
> > into _one_ bat, AFAIR.
> >
>
> All previous vampires have been able to rematerialise their clothes,
> too, hmm?
>
Given how the Discworld seems to work. Is it possible that Sally has heard
the theory of how it shouldn't be possible to transform all her mass like
that. While all the other vampires are going on the old Narrativium
version?
IYSWIM?
--
Rhiannon S
If you're going to do something stupid, at least do it with style!
Jessie
> '...at the studio of Sir Joshua at eleven sharp...'
> This sounds suspiciously like the Discworld equivalent of Sir Joshua
> Reynolds, portrait painter to the British nobility during the
> eighteenth century. Apart from occasional parodies and cartoons, he
> was best known for exactly the type of portrait that Vimes later
> grumbles about. There are some examples at
> <http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ArtistWorks?cgroupid=999999961
> &artistid=444&page=1>, particularly Lady Bampfylde and the
> Marlborough family scene.
Ahh, yes, could be. :)
However, I assumed that it was the studio belonging to Sir Joshua
Ramkin, Sybil's father - or at least a male relative of hers. (He's
mentioned in Nanny Ogg's cookbook and somewhere else, I think.) Sybil
mentions that family portraits are a Ramkin family tradition, so,
knowing how rich the Ramkins are, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that
they have their own studio.
eschl...@gmail.com
> Minor pedant point - they're actually Japanese, rather than Chinese.
> It might not matter to you, but it certainly did to my Chinese Kung-Fu
> instructors many years ago. They taught weapons, but refused to even
> discuss the Japanese ones.
>
Ross
<434a7279$0$2135$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>, seen in
alt.fan.pratchett:
> Back in the day, Japanese peasants weren't allowed to have weapons,
> but they were allowed all sorts of agricultural implements...
Which is, as we al know, how many of the most "interesting" weapons
came into being. Billhooks, anyone?
Apropos of nothing much, I had to buy a stop-cock key this weekend
(fifteen quid, I nearly fainted!). Wandering home from B&Q with it, it
occurred to me that it would probably be quite effective for dealing
with an armoured horse-rider: the handle end has a nice punch which I
reckon would quite effectively hook into any gaps in the armour,
enabling the wielder to pull said horseman to the ground, and the key
end has a nice large lump of metal which would give the horseman a
lovely headache at the least.
Of course, it's not a weapon at all, noooo...
--
Ross
Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my name to e-mail me.
Diane L
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
With some rather nit-picking responses from me.
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
> (pre-half title) - "500,000 years old" - Trollish writing
> clearly predates Dwarfish and Human, as established in pre-existing DW
> canon. Compare Dwarfish beliefs in this book.
>
> 1 - "Sam Vimes shaved himself." - Possibly a synthesis of the
> well-known logical paradox "the barber shaves all those who do not
> shave themselves; who shaves the barber?" and the question stated
> many times in this book, "who watches the watchers?"
But more, surely, to do with Sam's conviction that by refusing to be
shaved by his butler, he's striking a blow for equality, freedom and
probably a hard-boiled egg.
> 2 - "The steel was a lot better than the steel you got today" -
> Dwarves make the best steel (see later at the well). Is the old steel
> really better, or is Vimes seeing through rose-colored glasses, as he
> will several times in this novel?
>
> Ibid. - "Grag Hamcrusher" - My first guess for the origin of
> this name is that, like Goodmountain in _The Truth_, Hamcrusher's
> name may be a translation of the name of some famous demagogue from
> Earth history. The best guess I have so far is "Ham" -> German
> "Schenk" -> "Schinklgruber", a purported real name for Adolf
> Hitler, but this seems a stretch.
>
> Ibid. - "A cap-brim sewn with pennies" - British Special Forces
> have been described as doing just such a thing for brawling; compare
> also the deadly hat of Auric Goldfinger's henchman Oddjob in the
> James Bond adventure _Goldfinger_.
>
> 4 - "Mr., er, Fizz" - first mentioned in _Monstrous Regiment_
> as the Ankh Morpork Times' cartoonist.
Based on the Dickensian illustrator 'Phiz', who must have been
mentioned in the MR annotations.
>
> 5 - "Methodia Rascal" - What might be the origin of this name?
>
> 7 - "His ridiculous accent that grew thicker or thinner..." -
> This is the well-documented linguistic phenomenon of "register
> change", and is not necessarily done consciously.
>
> 8 - "Mr. Pessimal" - Possibly, this name is a portmanteau of
> "pessimist" (or indeed "pessary") and "decimal". Pterry's
> Dickensian character naming scheme continues to grow.
'Pessimal' is the opposite of 'optimal', hence a pessimal situation
is the worse possible. (So maybe I'm *not* the only one who
didn't know that without looking it up!)
> 9 - "Do you know Mr. John Smith?" - the popular British
> character of the Doctor in _Dr. Who_ occasionally goes by "Doctor
> John Smith", and has worn colourful vests in many of his
> incarnations. Compare also the vampires playing at being everyday
> humans in _Carpe Jugulum_.
>
> 11 - "for thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances?" - From
> this, we can conclude that it is possible to live a reasonably
> middle-class lifestyle on thirty-eight $AM a month.
>
> Ibid. - "You're not a vampire, Doreen!..." - compare the
> inherited vampire couple in _Moving Pictures_.
Reaper Man. Same couple.
> 12 - "Count Vargo St. Gruet von Vilinus!" - one of the battles
> of Koom Valley took place in Vilinus Pass.
>
> Ibid - "collects bananas" - See note for page 85.
>
> Ibid - "Cockbill Street" - see _Feet of Clay_.
>
> Ibid - "Salacia Deloresista Amanita..." - "Amanita" is a
> genus of mushrooms containing many of the most toxic known.
> "Zeldana" seems to be some kind of construction material.
'Salacious', Appealing to or stimulating sexual desire; lascivious.
[...]
> 181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
> like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
> rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
> Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
Wilson, Kepple and Betty - 'exotic' dancers in the sense of 'foreign'.
also,maybe Betty Perske, who changed her name to Lauren Bacall
Diane L.
Brion K. Lienhart
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
> 298 - "there's seven broomsticks nailed underneath each coach."
> - Compare how Moist von Lipwig pointedly did not use a broomstick in
> the final race in _Going Postal_.
Moist had no intention of actually going to Genua though, it was just a
setup for the bigger scam. He had to clearly be seen to be not using any
magic at all, Vimes just doesn't want anything obvious.
Thalia
"John Ewing" <jo...@gelsalba.co.uk> wrote in message
news:434997fc...@news.demon.co.uk...
> >
> >By Edmund Schluessel
> >
> >These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> >Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> >paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
> >
> >and
> >
> >now
> >
> >here
> >
> >comes
> >
> >a
> >
> >modicum
> >
> >of
> >
> >spoiler
> >
> >space!
>
>
> >23 - "The parades were okay" - in Northern Ireland,
> >nationalistic parades by both sides were once quite common both as a
> >display of pride and as a means of intimidation.
>
> nationalists.
>
> >169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." - Compare
> >"borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as described in
> >_Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average vampire bat doesn't
> >weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty *might* just
> >barely weigh 40 pounds.
>
> into _one_ bat, AFAIR.
>
>
IIRC, Windle Poons discovered that "Arthur as a bat was surprisingly heavy"
Brian Wakeling
1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published
> Harper-Collins 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005,
> ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk. paper), ISBN-13:
> 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
> (pre-half title) - "500,000 years old" - Trollish writing
> clearly predates Dwarfish and Human, as established in
> pre-existing DW canon. Compare Dwarfish beliefs in this
> book.
How do we know that humans and dwarfs haven't been around for
that long as well? Neanderthal man, the most recent
evolutionary stage before homo sapiens, was around from
300,000 to 40,000 ish years ago.
> 1 - "Sam Vimes shaved himself." - Possibly a synthesis of
> the well-known logical paradox "the barber shaves all those
> who do not shave themselves; who shaves the barber?" and
> the question stated
> many times in this book, "who watches the watchers?"
We know why Vimes shaves himself, and it's nothing to do with
philosophical conundrums. It is first seen and explained in
FoC, IIRC
> 2 - "The steel was a lot better than the steel you got
> today" - Dwarves make the best steel (see later at the
> well). Is the old steel really better, or is Vimes seeing
> through rose-colored glasses, as he will several times in
> this novel?
Whilst modern mass-produced steel is often of a better quality
and longer lasting, carefully hand-wrought steel keeps a
better edge, because it's easier to fold and manipulate into
the fine wossnames needed for being able to eg. give a fly a
shave and haircut in mid-flight.
> 4 - "Mr., er, Fizz" - first mentioned in _Monstrous
> Regiment_
> as the Ankh Morpork Times' cartoonist.
Hablott Knight Brown (I think he was called) was a cartoonist
who drew under the name of Phiz, and was working at least up
to WWII
> 5 - "Methodia Rascal" - What might be the origin of this
> name?
There is method in the madness. Compare with names of other
creative types - Bloody Stupid Johnson, Sagacity Smith,
Capability Brown, and Leonard da Quirm. Er...
> 7 - "His ridiculous accent that grew thicker or thinner..."
> -
> This is the well-documented linguistic phenomenon of
> "register change", and is not necessarily done consciously.
I think Otto is doing it consciously, as a form of
self-defence against the "all vampires are evil" school of
thought. A thick accent when needing to appear funny (and
hence not seen as a threat), and a clearer one when needing to
be taken seriously, are very useful items for a foreigner in a
semi-hostile city.
> 9 - "Do you know Mr. John Smith?" - the popular British
> character of the Doctor in _Dr. Who_ occasionally goes by
> "Doctor
> John Smith", and has worn colourful vests in many of his
> incarnations. Compare also the vampires playing at being
> everyday humans in _Carpe Jugulum_.
More like he's trying to be "the man in the street" - a name
comprised of the most common first and surnames in the English
language, a sweater that wouldn't look out of place on a
golf-course, smoking a pipe, etc
> 11 - "for thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances?" -
> From
> this, we can conclude that it is possible to live a
> reasonably middle-class lifestyle on thirty-eight $AM a
> month.
In The Truth, William de Worde's income more explicitly says
that it's possible to live quite a comfortable lifestyle on 40
dollars a month. Compare it with Sergeants' pay of $18 a month
during G!G!
> Ibid. - "You're not a vampire, Doreen!..." - compare the
> inherited vampire couple in _Moving Pictures_.
Vast dissimilarities, starting with the fact that there was no
vampire couple in MP. RM, OTOH
> 12 - "Count Vargo St. Gruet von Vilinus!" - one of the
> battles
> of Koom Valley took place in Vilinus Pass.
So? "von" means "of". He is Count Vargo St Gruet of Vilinus.
He probably just un-lived there originally - in the mountains
of Uberwald, which we know is vampire territory.
> Ibid - "collects bananas" - See note for page 85.
Merely trying to have a normal hobby (and failing)
> 17 - "Quid custodiet ipsos custodes?" - Juvenal, "Satires".
> "Who shall guard the guardsmen?" but often translated as
> "who
> watches the watchers?" either of which fits in an AM City
> Watch context. The line's original contexts relates to
> locking up one's
> wife in order to prevent her from cheating, followed by the
> fear that she may be seduced by the guard watching her.
It's mentioned in some form in every Watch book. G!G!, the mob
that come to dispose of Lady Ramkin's dragons "quiz custodiet
custard?" MAA, Vetinari, in Morporkian (otherwise known as
English). FoC, Vetinari again, in Latatian, to Vimes near one
end of the book (can't remember if it's beginning or finish).
J, I think Rust says it, shortly after Vetinari's deposition.
T5E and NW, Vimes, at various times in Latiatian and
Morporkian.
> 19 - "Fred Colon shook his head....'We knew what one
> another was thinking...'" - not only is the Watch looking
> back on the less-complicated days of _Guards, Guards!_, but
> Pterry himself may be referring to the lighter, less
> developed style and content of his earlier Watch novels.
Or it could be a cigar.[1]
> 22 - "Gods damn the wretched place" - Blatant foreshadowing.
Why? They don't, actually. It only appears to the participants
in the know at the original Koom Valley, that they had, what
with the ferocity of the storm. In which case, you mean
preshadowing.
> 23 - "The parades were okay" - in Northern Ireland,
> nationalistic parades by both sides were once quite common
> both as a display of pride and as a means of intimidation.
Still are. There are news reports of riots to prove it.
> Ibid - "pole-dancing" - the mazurka, a lively dance
> originating
> in the Masurian Lakes region of northeastern Poland and
> performed in 3/4 time.
Never been to Spearmint Rhino, or anywhere like that, then?
> 31 - "Two sequins and a bootlace" - In contrast to its other
> virtues, Ankh-Morpork's dance bars are apparently non-nude
> (or at least this one is).
The dancers aren't going to be naked when off duty, are they?
> Ibid. - "You're not supposed to put it anywhere, Sarge." - a
> common rule of ecdysiastic establishments is an admonition
> against touching the dancers.
>
> 33 - "attitude of a preoccupied chicken" - The
> chicken-as-haunting-demon idea occurs thrice in _Thud!_ -
> in Sir Reynold's role of what Sam Vimes should have known
> about earlier but for his preoccupation, as Methodia
> Rascal's demon, and as Angua's reminder of her incomplete
> civilization.
It's just another way of saying he's an upper-class twit. See
the Python sketch.
> 36 - "Don't Talk to Me About Mondays" - Possibly a collision
> of Garfield the Cat's "I hate Mondays" (or the Boomtown
> Rats' "I Don't Like Mondays") and Marvin the Paranoid
> Android's "Life? Don't talk to me about life."
Monday was washday, when the husband was back at the pit and
the wife had his Sunday Best suit ready to wash, along with
his spare set of work clothes. Tuesday was spent ironing,
Wednesday cleaning upstairs, Thursday cleaning downstairs.
Friday was cleaning up after the coal delivery (and payday).
Saturday was shopping and all the other little chores, and
Sunday was the day of rest.
Garfield probably has less to do with it than Bob Geldof,
though.
> 44 - "She had short hair...a girl who wouldn't mind passing
> for
> one" - Sally may be written with some lesbian subtext.
> Contrast Maledicta from _Monstrous Regiment_.
It is possible to describe a female character as being like
that without meaning any subtle sexual intent.
> 45 - "Any history....throat biting" - Sally was apparently
> born, not made, a vampire.
We could have deduced that from the fact that she is 51. Sally
is 51 and looks like a human woman would at 16, Doreen
Winkings is probably at least as old as Sally, but looks like
a human woman would at 51. Therefore, unless Sally has access
to some truly spectacularly effective anti-wrinkle cream, and
follows Cher's exercise and diet regime, she must have been
born a vampire.
> 50 - "War, Nobby. Huh! What is it good for?...." - This
> passage parodies Edwin Starr's 1970 Vietnam War protest
> song, "War".
> Contrast the use of "Fixin' to Die Rag" in _Monstrous
> Regiment_.
> Also note that Colon and Nobby are both veterans of the Ankh
> Morpork-Klatch war in _Jingo_.
They are also veterans of many other wars, Nobby in
particular, and have both fought in many battles and seen the
resultant carnage, damage, despair, corruption, etc.
> 51 - "COPERS ARE BARSTUDS" - compare the corruption of
> "bastard" to "brass stud" in _Feet of Clay_.
Why? It's jsut another example of A-M's erratic spelling
> 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
> to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
> _Going Postal_.
I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
UK edition. Going by page numbers, it could be in about the
right place for Vimes to be thinking "The important thing is
not to shout at this point [...] Do not... what do they call
it... go spare?" This would point to an interesting deviation
in the US edition if it is. Throughout most of FoC, most of
Nobby's dialogue is "Vimes'll go spare!", and again in T5E,
Colon thinks to himself in dread "Mr Vimes will go spare when
he gets back" several times. What was in the US edition for
these occurrences of the phrase, before a reliable postal
service was once again operating. It would also indicate a
level of cretinity in the US editor that has hitherto been
unseen, as to go postal means to send things by mail (as in a
leaflet advertising campaign), whereas to go spare means to
totally lose one's rag, go ape shit, become very very angry
indeed. It would make even less sense if Vimes' thought
continued as "Treat this as a learning exercise. Find out why
the world is not as you thought it was. Assemble the facts,
digest the information, consider the implications. /Then/ go
postal. But with precision."
> 57 - "Ankh-Morpork is mostly built on Ankh-Morpork" - first
> revealed in _The Truth_.
First revelealed in MAA, or possibly even G!G!.
"Traditionally, dragons eat virgins tied to rocks". "It'll
starve round here then, we're on loam". And later, Sybil is
tied to a huge piece of rock that Vimes deduces must have been
an ancient piece of masonry dug up from somewhere. The fact of
A-M's building on itself is hinted at in Pyramids and Mort,
and maybe even ER as well.
> 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and
> Arabic culture in Europe.
It's the only parallel, and then it's a weak one. Lots of
people make good coffee.
In the series, I have seen closer parallels between Dwarfish
and Indian cultures, whilst Trollish culture goes closer to
African culture.
> 79 - "giant wooly elephants" - Brick's psychedelic
> experiences possibly belie a latent psychic spiritual
> ability; in this instance he has seen the distant past.
Remember that Trolls think they go through time backwards -
from his point of view, he has seen the future.
> 92 - "small loaf of dwarf bread" - Is this from _Feet of
> Clay_?
It could be from G!G! - Carrot's mum sends him a Dwarf cake,
which they save a slice of for capt Vimes. It could also be
from T5E, as I'm sure the Low King wouldn't let Vimes get away
with just an axe - I'm sure the whol diplomatic mission got a
few free samples of traditional Dwarf bread.
> 94 - "...not because he had a huge interest in the
> results..." - Contrast how, in _Night Watch_, Vimes has an
> exact idea of the tonnages of foodstuffs consumed by the
> city.
He probably looked at the reports once and then didn't bother
ever again. Unless you get a population explosion, or a
plague, or some other disaster, the amount of food doming into
the city is unlikely to change.
> 96 - "They were baaad trolls. At least, they'd like
> everyone to
> think so." - Many of the street gangs in United States
> history were ethnic in origin and competed primarily with
> gangs of other ethnicities.
*Everybody* is ethnic in origin. That's why it's called an
"ethnic group". Note that the gangs in "West Side Story" are
both exclusively white in the film and many stage versions.
> 100 - "you're on the side of the people" - Another contrast
> with _Night Watch_, in which Vimes dismisses the idea of
> "the
> people" as a conceit.
Yeah, but you try explaining that philosophcal point to two
dozen sceptics in under ten seconds so as not to lose their
interest, whilst barely being able to articulate it to
yourself, and still keeping it in a rousing morale-boosting
spur-of-the-moment speech.
> 101 - "Er...permission t'speak freely...." - Recall, in this
> passage, that Detritus's first partner was a dwarf.
And?
> 102 - "It looked like a city" - A city or house is employed
> as
> an image representing the mind at least as far back as C.G.
> Jung's _Man and His Symbols_. More recently, Stephen King's
> _Dreamcatcher_ (novel 2001, film 2003) features the
> character of Jonesy being pursued through the metaphorical
> streets of his hometown by an alien trying to take him over.
The classic image of a city with dark streets and tall,
distorted buildings is a Hitchcock film, can't remember what
it was called or who was in it, but practically the only clip
of it you see is the hero in a trenchcoat and fedora[2]
walking away from camera down said wobbly-buildinged street.
> 104 - "'Baaa!' said Vimes" - Is this simply Vimes
> shivering, or is he subconsciously projecting _Where's My
> Cow_?
This is Vimes showing he is not a sheep, and not intimidated
by the Troll muscle.
> 114 - "Vimes was a runner by nature" - compare _Guards,
> Guards!_ and the basics of Watch survival in the bad old
> days.
Run at the same speed as everyone else. Nothing about not
running. In fact, as long as you ran at the same speed as
everyone else, running was *good*
> 119 - "various approximations of the hour..." - compare the
> clattering of bells in _Night Watch_.
The fact that A-M has several different versions of an hour,
each one clearly audible across the city, is first mentioned
in Pyramids, and again in MAA.
> Ibid. - "Trolls don't clean their feet much..." - compare
> _Feet of Clay_, in which tracked mud is one of the most
> important clues.
Tracked mud is not mentioned in FoC, except as a derisory
"Clue!" by Vimes. There is the grease under the fingernails of
Father Tubelcek, and the newly shit-covered streets in the
slaughterhouse district after the stampede, but no tracked
mud.
> 140 - "When we have our Koom Valley...burned to the
> ground". The
> first part of this passage foreshadows Otto's appearance at
> the end
> of the book; the last sentence takes us all the way back to
> the opening of _The Color of Magic_.
The last time A-M was burned to the ground was indeed in TCoM,
but it has been on fire, sometimes severely, severals time
since then - notably in G!G!
> 145 - "The Plaza of Broken Moons" - Rincewind and Twoflower
> have lunch here in _The Color of Magic_.
It *is* one of the major open spaces in the city, I suspect
you can do a lot of things in The Plaza of Broken Moons. Think
of it as Times Square, with nearby Sator Square as Trafalgar
Square. What a lot of public places, what a lot of important
civic buildings, what a lot of tourist shops, what a lot of
hot-dog stalls and sweet shops and fast-food restaurants.
> 149 - "It didn't get political on you" - Recall that the
> plot
> in _Guards, Guards!_ was explicitly political, concerning a
> conspiracy to replace Vetinari.
No, it was not political. Not when compared to the plots in
FoC and TT. G!G! was merely attempted coup d'etat with the
setting up of a puppet ruler in the aftermath.
> 152 - "When push came to shove...removed was yours." -
> Recall
> the citizen militia of _Night Watch_.
The citizens militia of NW was exactly that - a gathering of
old soldiers and young lads not in the regiments, armed to the
teeth with whatever they could get their hands on. The
Specials in NW were more properly called The Cable Street
Particulars. Read Maskerade to see a member of the modern
Cable Street Particulars in action - his profile, and that of
the other Special Constables seen in T!, and of Special
Constables in the UK, are typical of what Special Constables
are - citizens who would like to be regular law-enforcement
officers, but for occupational or other reasons, aren't.
> 155 - "numknuts" - akin, of course, to nunchaku (popularly
> nunchucks), a Chinese flail consisting of two wooden shafts
> connected by a chain or cord.
Japanese. The Chinese rice-flail was essentially the same
weapon, except one bit of wood was four feet long, the other
bit was two feet, and the chain was six inches. Compare with
nunchaku dimensions of two bits of wood 18 inches long, and a
9-inch chain connecting them.
> 166 footnote - "Empirical Crescent...all this by accident."
> -
> It is notable that B.S. Johnson's works, which started out
> as merely inept in earlier books, have developed into
> quasi-magical perversions of the very fabric of space and
> time. Compare also Robert Heinlein's 1941 short story "-And
> He Built A Crooked House-".
An empirical formula is a basic chemical formula that
represents the lowest possible level of molecular combinations
in a given substance. eg. sugar has the empirical formula
C6H12O6, but could have an actual formula of C36H72O36. I
think - it's been a while since I did GCSE chemistry.
> 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." -
> Compare "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as
> described in _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average
> vampire bat doesn't
> weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty
> *might* just barely weigh 40 pounds.
Borrowing is literally just borrowing the mind of another
creature. A swarm of bees needs to be borrowed en masse, as
they are a hive mind, and you cannot control an entire body if
you are just borrowing one finger.
Also, some fruit bat species are noticably larger than vampire
bats. At 7 ounces per bat, 150 bats is 75 pounds, a more
realistic weight for a young woman than 40 pounds.
> 171 - "A paying audience?" - Pterry may, in this passage, be
> playing with the slash fiction community reading this book.
Or he may have given Sally a peurile sense of humour.
> 183 - "Lance Constable von Humpeding needs an apple,
> urgently." - see note for page 85. It has to mean
> *something*, dammit.
Yes - it means Sally needs to bite something large and
soft-ish RIGHT NOW, or she might want to start biting necks.
> 206 - "No. 3 Tenth Egg Street" - Tenth Egg Street is
> previously referred to as the home base of Willikins's
> boyhood street gang.
No, he was in the Shamlegger Street Rude Boys. The Tenth Egg
Street Gange is a troll gang, so thick that they are called
the "Tenth Egg Street Can't-Think-of-a-Nickname Gang" and
their mascot is rumoured to be a lump of concrete on a string.
> 225 - "in accordance with some butlerian duty" - Possibly an
> oblique reference to the "Butlerian jihad" against sentient
> machines in Frank Herbert's _Dune_ series.
Either that, or a wine store is more properly called a
buttery.
> 278 - "'Have you ever been up to the attics here, Sam?'
> 'No!'" - How long has Sam lived in this house, and he still
> hasn't seen every room? Compare the Jungian image of the
> house noted on page 102.
He doesn't live in this house - they are in Psuedopolis Yard,
which the Ramkin family used to own, but haven't used for
several years/decades.
> 291 - "Generations of rascally drunk student wizards..." -
> We
> see these loose bricks in _Equal Rites_ and again in _Soul
> Music_.
We also see them in LF, S, MP and Jingo, and their Xsian
equivalent (a loose panel of corrugated iron) in TLC.
> 300 - "Signed the message 'Aicalas'." - Compare Mr. Soak in
> _Thief of Time_, but particularly see the note for page 8
> of _Carpe Jugulum_.
This is an old trick for vampires - Count Alucard, anyone?
> 302. - "many had ever been found again" -The first American
> printing contains a number of typographical errors,
> especially near the end.
As does the UK version
> 305 - "Perhaps sound was unable to keep up." - The speed of
> sound in normal air is around 750 miles an hour.
330 m/s works out at 738mph at sea level. The speed of sound
slowly decreased as you gain altitude, until you reach
36,000ft-ish, where it levels off at 660 mph (295 m/s)
> 312. - "It's amazing how the inn's beer helped recovery."
> - There are two schools of thought about alcoholism, one
> that a recovering alcoholic must never drink again and
> another that moderation can be learned. Vimes apparently
> follows the second school; or possibly, strong liquor
> counts differently
Back to HHGTTG - alcohol, in the form of three pints of
bitter, helps cushion Arthur Dent's bodily systems from the
effect of his first teleport.
> 317 - "Campfires from the valley...." - A few ways to go
> here.
> On the one hand, it might be a reference to the civilian
> observers who watched the Battle of Bull Run (1861) as if
> it were an afternoon's entertainment; or on the other, to
> the early arrivals at CCDE looking for a good spot; or on
> the other other hand, it could be just taken at face value.
I think it's probably just as Cheery says it is, in the rest
of her sentence.
> 354 - "he spoke fluent Chicken" - possibly a reference to
> the
> surreal webcomic _The Parking Lot Is Full_, which featured
> one strip in which civilization is ended by a linguist who
> invents a language called "Chicken".
Or merely to the fact that Methodia Rascal was a loony who was
afraid of a chicken pursuing him, and that he might also be a
chicken, and was gibbering to himself whithin activation range
of the Cube.
> 361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
Another diamond? Burned into his hide with sunlight?
[1] See Freud.
[2] Trenchcoat and fedora being the uniform of PIs
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
Sign in a shop:
"Credit will only be granted to people over 80
If accompanied by both parents"
Alister
> In a speech called
> 1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
> eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
>
>>Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>
>>By Edmund Schluessel
>>
>>These annotations are indexed to the US-published
>>Harper-Collins 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005,
>>ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk. paper), ISBN-13:
>>978-0-06-081522-6.
>>
>>and
>>
>>now
>>
>>here
>>
>>comes
>>
>>a
>>
>>modicum
>>
>>of
>>
>>spoiler
>>
>>space!
> An empirical formula is a basic chemical formula that
> represents the lowest possible level of molecular combinations
> in a given substance. eg. sugar has the empirical formula
> C6H12O6, but could have an actual formula of C36H72O36. I
> think - it's been a while since I did GCSE chemistry.
Sorry Brian, I agree with most of your points but I must argue with this one.
I think it is much more likely to be alluding to Empirical evidence (or
Empirical results) where, basically, you do an experiment and see what happens!
(as opposed to predicting the result *first*)
This seems to be a B.S. Johnson favourite - let's build it and see what happens.
ALastair.
Galen Musbach
<bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>> to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>> _Going Postal_.
>
>I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>UK edition. Going by page numbers, it could be in about the
>right place for Vimes to be thinking "The important thing is
>not to shout at this point [...] Do not... what do they call
>it... go spare?" This would point to an interesting deviation
>in the US edition if it is.
That's it exactly. The US edition translated
"go spare" as "go postal". In the US, postal
workers have a tendency to become violently
insane.
-Galen
Galen Musbach
<bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
>
>Another diamond? Burned into his hide with sunlight?
A diamond will ignite and burn to ashes
under any intensity that would etch it.
The jewel destroyed in the experiment
is still remembered.
-Galen
Arthur Hagen
>
> An empirical formula is a basic chemical formula that
> represents the lowest possible level of molecular combinations
> in a given substance. eg. sugar has the empirical formula
> C6H12O6, but could have an actual formula of C36H72O36. I
> think - it's been a while since I did GCSE chemistry.
No, that would just be 3x(C6H12O6). Try C12H22O11, which can split into
2x(C6H12O6) if you add H2O (water).
Regards,
--
*Art
Arthur Hagen
> In article <dic63g$mla$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com>,
> a...@broomstick.com said...
>> eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>>
>>> By Edmund Schluessel
>>>
>>> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>>> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>>> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> now
>>>
>>> here
>>>
>>> comes
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> modicum
>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>> spoiler
>>>
>>> space!
>>>
>>
>> really fail to see how they could flatten out a cylindrical mural
>> without breaking it, or cutting it out and rolling it up like a
>> carpet either. Or doesn't mural mean the same thing everywhere -- a
>> painting on an immobile surface (usually a wall, thus the name)?
>
> Note that Sir Reynold never refers to it as such, only as painting or
> canvas...
In my version, Sir Reynold refers to it as a mural:
"The mural is one of the most recognizable paintings..." and "...
/hwolly/ encircled by the mural ..."
This doesn't make much sense to me.
Regards,
--
*Art
David Cherry
"Galen Musbach" <musb...@xtn.net> wrote in message
news:nj4mk1pbnt5c6bslh...@4ax.com...
several highly publicized incidents where postal workers went on murderous
rampages
David Cherry
"Arthur Hagen" <a...@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:difaul$j47$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com...
portable panel that is destined for a wall or architectural setting
eschl...@gmail.com
Somewhere there's a note that trolls predate all the other races, but I
forget where.
> > 4 - "Mr., er, Fizz" - first mentioned in _Monstrous
> > Regiment_
> > as the Ankh Morpork Times' cartoonist.
>
> Hablott Knight Brown (I think he was called) was a cartoonist
> who drew under the name of Phiz, and was working at least up
> to WWII
Yes, that would in fact be the annotation in _Monstrous Regiment_
p.177. ;)
> > 12 - "Count Vargo St. Gruet von Vilinus!" - one of the
> > battles
> > of Koom Valley took place in Vilinus Pass.
>
> So? "von" means "of". He is Count Vargo St Gruet of Vilinus.
> He probably just un-lived there originally - in the mountains
> of Uberwald, which we know is vampire territory.
I'm inclined to think it's not entirely coincidence just because the
word doesn't (AFAIAA) appear anywhere else in DW and suddenly shows up
twice. Pterry may have just had it on his mind.
>
> > 22 - "Gods damn the wretched place" - Blatant foreshadowing.
>
> Why? They don't, actually. It only appears to the participants
> in the know at the original Koom Valley, that they had, what
> with the ferocity of the storm. In which case, you mean
> preshadowing.
No, but Koom Valley does get *dammed*.
> > 33 - "attitude of a preoccupied chicken" - The
> > chicken-as-haunting-demon idea occurs thrice in _Thud!_ -
> > in Sir Reynold's role of what Sam Vimes should have known
> > about earlier but for his preoccupation, as Methodia
> > Rascal's demon, and as Angua's reminder of her incomplete
> > civilization.
>
> It's just another way of saying he's an upper-class twit. See
> the Python sketch.
Seen it. As above, I'm inclined to say that if an author includes an
image four or five times in a book, it's supposed to mean something.
> > 44 - "She had short hair...a girl who wouldn't mind passing
> > for
> > one" - Sally may be written with some lesbian subtext.
> > Contrast Maledicta from _Monstrous Regiment_.
>
> It is possible to describe a female character as being like
> that without meaning any subtle sexual intent.
Yes, but in this case I don't think it's without subtle sexual intent;
although contrast the presentation of Tilda in _MR_.
> > 51 - "COPERS ARE BARSTUDS" - compare the corruption of
> > "bastard" to "brass stud" in _Feet of Clay_.
>
> Why? It's jsut another example of A-M's erratic spelling
>
It's a multi-book theme.
> > 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
> > to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
> > _Going Postal_.
>
> I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
> UK edition. Going by page numbers, it could be in about the
> right place for Vimes to be thinking "The important thing is
> not to shout at this point [...] Do not... what do they call
> it... go spare?" This would point to an interesting deviation
> in the US edition if it is. Throughout most of FoC, most of
> Nobby's dialogue is "Vimes'll go spare!", and again in T5E,
> Colon thinks to himself in dread "Mr Vimes will go spare when
> he gets back" several times. What was in the US edition for
> these occurrences of the phrase, before a reliable postal
> service was once again operating. It would also indicate a
> level of cretinity in the US editor that has hitherto been
> unseen, as to go postal means to send things by mail (as in a
> leaflet advertising campaign), whereas to go spare means to
> totally lose one's rag, go ape shit, become very very angry
> indeed. It would make even less sense if Vimes' thought
> continued as "Treat this as a learning exercise. Find out why
> the world is not as you thought it was. Assemble the facts,
> digest the information, consider the implications. /Then/ go
> postal. But with precision."
It seems to have been "translated", yes; "go spare" was left untouched
in other books, so I suspect someone at Harper-Collins might have
thought they were being clever.
> > 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> > parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and
> > Arabic culture in Europe.
>
> It's the only parallel, and then it's a weak one. Lots of
> people make good coffee.
> In the series, I have seen closer parallels between Dwarfish
> and Indian cultures, whilst Trollish culture goes closer to
> African culture.
I don't think it's the only one -- dwarves also have their own
religion, cover themselves, and have their own parts of town. I should
be more specific: in this book, I think the dwarves are presented as an
allusion to Muslims *in Britain*. Yes, they've been projected as
kinda-Scandinavian kinda-Tolkien before and there's nothing
inconsistent with that here, but the author has started from there and
added additional nuances for the purposes of the story.
> > 96 - "They were baaad trolls. At least, they'd like
> > everyone to
> > think so." - Many of the street gangs in United States
> > history were ethnic in origin and competed primarily with
> > gangs of other ethnicities.
>
> *Everybody* is ethnic in origin. That's why it's called an
> "ethnic group". Note that the gangs in "West Side Story" are
> both exclusively white in the film and many stage versions.
>
That is to say, ethnic-pride gangs; for a long time the dominant
dynamic was to have, say, an Irish gang which only let in members of
Irish extraction fighting turf wars with an Italian gang which only let
in members of Italian extraction -- lumps, as it were, in the melting
pot of New York City. Despite the facts of _T5E_, Ankh-Morpork is
probably not "a dwarvish city" in the minds of its inhabitants, but
rather a human city with a large dwarf population.
> > 100 - "you're on the side of the people" - Another contrast
> > with _Night Watch_, in which Vimes dismisses the idea of
> > "the
> > people" as a conceit.
>
> Yeah, but you try explaining that philosophcal point to two
> dozen sceptics in under ten seconds so as not to lose their
> interest, whilst barely being able to articulate it to
> yourself, and still keeping it in a rousing morale-boosting
> spur-of-the-moment speech.
>
Based on this and the innumerable other references to _NW_ in this
book, I'm inclined to see it as character evolution.
> > 101 - "Er...permission t'speak freely...." - Recall, in this
> > passage, that Detritus's first partner was a dwarf.
>
> And?
>
So he's qualified to talk about the difficulties of dwarf-troll
relationships because he's overcome them.
> > 114 - "Vimes was a runner by nature" - compare _Guards,
> > Guards!_ and the basics of Watch survival in the bad old
> > days.
>
> Run at the same speed as everyone else. Nothing about not
> running. In fact, as long as you ran at the same speed as
> everyone else, running was *good*
That's why it's "compare", not "contrast".
> > 149 - "It didn't get political on you" - Recall that the
> > plot
> > in _Guards, Guards!_ was explicitly political, concerning a
> > conspiracy to replace Vetinari.
>
> No, it was not political. Not when compared to the plots in
> FoC and TT. G!G! was merely attempted coup d'etat with the
> setting up of a puppet ruler in the aftermath.
I disagree. The plot was equally politically driven in all those books,
but in _G!G!_ Vimes was seeing it from street level.
> > 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." -
> > Compare "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as
> > described in _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average
> > vampire bat doesn't
> > weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty
> > *might* just barely weigh 40 pounds.
>
> Also, some fruit bat species are noticably larger than vampire
> bats. At 7 ounces per bat, 150 bats is 75 pounds, a more
> realistic weight for a young woman than 40 pounds.
Why would a vampire turn into fruitbats?
> > 300 - "Signed the message 'Aicalas'." - Compare Mr. Soak in
> > _Thief of Time_, but particularly see the note for page 8
> > of _Carpe Jugulum_.
>
> This is an old trick for vampires - Count Alucard, anyone?
That would, indeed, be the note for page 8 of _CJ_.
>
> > 302. - "many had ever been found again" -The first American
> > printing contains a number of typographical errors,
> > especially near the end.
>
> As does the UK version
Are they the same errors, I wonder?
>
> > 305 - "Perhaps sound was unable to keep up." - The speed of
> > sound in normal air is around 750 miles an hour.
>
> 330 m/s works out at 738mph at sea level. The speed of sound
> slowly decreased as you gain altitude, until you reach
> 36,000ft-ish, where it levels off at 660 mph (295 m/s)
In either case, it's probably (given a 100mph speed of the carriage)
figurative rather than literal.
Edmund
Arthur Hagen
Quote source, please. I have:
mu·ral
n (plural mu·rals)
painting painting (sic) on wall: a usually large picture painted
directly onto an interior or exterior wall
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft
Corporation. All rights reserved.
Mural
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
A mural is a painting on a wall, ceiling, or other large permanent
surface. [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mural
At least there seems to be /some/ sources that equate a mural with a
painting on an immobile surface (which theft would be the last of your
concerns), so I doubt I'm the only one who got confused.
Regards,
--
*Art
David Cherry
Source of quote is from http://cemaweb.library.ucsb.edu/taxonomy.html
and from http://www.patronsartgallery.com/glossary.htm
"Mural: A continuous painting which is designed to fill a wall or other
architectural area."
flobert
wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:40:23 +0100, "Brian Wakeling"
><bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>>> to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>>> _Going Postal_.
>>
>>I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>>UK edition. Going by page numbers, it could be in about the
>>right place for Vimes to be thinking "The important thing is
>>not to shout at this point [...] Do not... what do they call
>>it... go spare?" This would point to an interesting deviation
>>in the US edition if it is.
>
>That's it exactly. The US edition translated
>"go spare" as "go postal".
Yet another example of the Us publishers altering something, and
ruining it as well.
My copy also has tawnee being the first week in June, not Grune.
(Thanks to the wonders of IRC, i know of at least 2 others online the
same time as me, with UK edititons, to check these out :-)
>
>-Galen
Brian Wakeling
Arthur Hagen uttered thus:
Well, I did say it has been while since I did chemistry as a
subject
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be
happy."
- HL Mencken
Brian Wakeling
1129027875.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
> Brian Wakeling wrote:
>> In a speech called
>> 1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
>> eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
>>> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>>
>>> By Edmund Schluessel
>>>
>>> These annotations are indexed to the US-published
>>> Harper-Collins 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005,
>>> ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk. paper), ISBN-13:
>>> 978-0-06-081522-6.
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> now
>>>
>>> here
>>>
>>> comes
>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>> modicum
>>>
>>> of
>>>
>>> spoiler
>>>
>>> space!
>>>
>>> 22 - "Gods damn the wretched place" - Blatant
>>> foreshadowing.
>>
>> Why? They don't, actually. It only appears to the
>> participants in the know at the original Koom Valley, that
>> they had, what with the ferocity of the storm. In which
>> case, you mean preshadowing.
>
> No, but Koom Valley does get *dammed*.
GROAN. Hadn't spotted that one. Ta.
>
>>> 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch
>>> increases parallels between Dwarfish culture in
>>> Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture in Europe.
>>
>> It's the only parallel, and then it's a weak one. Lots of
>> people make good coffee.
>> In the series, I have seen closer parallels between
>> Dwarfish and Indian cultures, whilst Trollish culture goes
>> closer to African culture.
>
> I don't think it's the only one -- dwarves also have their
> own religion, cover themselves, and have their own parts of
> town. I should be more specific: in this book, I think the
> dwarves are presented as an allusion to Muslims *in
> Britain*.
Yes, I got that. And most Muslims in Britain are from the
Indian subcontinent.
> Yes, they've been projected as kinda-Scandinavian
> kinda-Tolkien before and there's nothing inconsistent with
> that here, but the author has started from there and added
> additional nuances for the purposes of the story.
Hmm. Have we seen a Dwarfish sauna?
>
>>> 149 - "It didn't get political on you" - Recall that the
>>> plot
>>> in _Guards, Guards!_ was explicitly political, concerning
>>> a conspiracy to replace Vetinari.
>>
>> No, it was not political. Not when compared to the plots in
>> FoC and TT. G!G! was merely attempted coup d'etat with the
>> setting up of a puppet ruler in the aftermath.
>
> I disagree. The plot was equally politically driven in all
> those books, but in _G!G!_ Vimes was seeing it from street
> level.
I see the activities of the conspirators in G!G! as for purely
personal gain. They're too small-minded (with the exception of
Wonse) to think about the bigger picture. Yes, the goal of all
the plots was the removal of Vetinari from power, but in G!G!
the end situation was merely one where the plotters had a
better life, whereas in FoC and TT, the end situation is one
where the plotters have more power, and indeed, are the only
ones with any semblance of it.
>>> 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." -
>>> Compare "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as
>>> described in _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average
>>> vampire bat doesn't
>>> weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty
>>> *might* just barely weigh 40 pounds.
>>
>> Also, some fruit bat species are noticably larger than
>> vampire bats. At 7 ounces per bat, 150 bats is 75 pounds,
>> a more realistic weight for a young woman than 40 pounds.
>
> Why would a vampire turn into fruitbats?
I'm not saying they would. I'm just saying that not all bats
weigh 3.5 ounces, and larger ones are available.
Anyway, as a non-reformed vampire can turn into one bat, the
extra mass must go somewhere, right? And Sally doesn't say
that not drinking blood completely removes the ability to
ignore the extra mass, so perhaps it just reduces the amount
of mass that can "disappear".
>>> 302. - "many had ever been found again" -The first
>>> American printing contains a number of typographical
>>> errors, especially near the end.
>>
>> As does the UK version
>
> Are they the same errors, I wonder?
I don't think the above is one, but there's an "propre armour
proper armour" in there somewhere (regarding Angua)
--
Sabremeister Brian :-)
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
"Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your week"
Pussinspooks
Stacie Hanes wrote:
> Pussinspooks wrote:
Someone earlier wrote: (sorry, losing track of attribs)
> > 181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
> > like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
> > rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
> > Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
> .
> .Minor spoiler for Jingo
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> > ______________
> > Wasn't Nobby himself once a somewhat exotic dancer called 'Beti'?
> > .
> I think "Beti" only threatened to dance.
--------------------------------
Yes, you are quite right, thoguh Vetinary introduced him as an exotic
dancer. Mind you, Nobby is a member of that folk dancing club, or at
least he was, so maybe I can claim that technically he is a 'dancer' at
all times and being dressed exotically makes him an exotic one? No? Oh
well :-/
jester
<eschl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Brian Wakeling wrote:
>> In a speech called
>> 1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
>> eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
>> > Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>> >
>> > By Edmund Schluessel
>> >
>> > These annotations are indexed to the US-published
>> > Harper-Collins 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005,
>> > ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk. paper), ISBN-13:
>> > 978-0-06-081522-6.
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > now
>> >
>> > here
>> >
>> > comes
>> >
>> > a
>> >
>> > modicum
>> >
>> > of
>> >
>> > spoiler
>> >
>> > space!
>> >
>
>> > 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." -
>> > Compare "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as
>> > described in _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average
>> > vampire bat doesn't
>> > weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty
>> > *might* just barely weigh 40 pounds.
>>
>> Also, some fruit bat species are noticably larger than vampire
>> bats. At 7 ounces per bat, 150 bats is 75 pounds, a more
>> realistic weight for a young woman than 40 pounds.
>
>Why would a vampire turn into fruitbats?
Well, if a reformed vampire is happy to chomp an apple instead of a neck,
and possibly drink fruit juice instead of blood, why not turn into
fruitbats instead of vampire bats?
--
Andy Brown
Every nonzero finite dimensional inner product space has an orthonormal basis.
It makes sense, when you don't think about it.
Pussinspooks
Brian Wakeling wrote:
> eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>> now
> >>>
> >>> here
> >>>
> >>> comes
> >>>
> >>> a
> >>>
> >>> modicum
> >>>
> >>> of
> >>>
> >>> spoiler
> >>>
> >>> space!
> >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
> >>> 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." -
> >>> Compare "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as
> >>> described in _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average
> >>> vampire bat doesn't
> >>> weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty
> >>> *might* just barely weigh 40 pounds.
> >>
> >> Also, some fruit bat species are noticably larger than
> >> vampire bats. At 7 ounces per bat, 150 bats is 75 pounds,
> >> a more realistic weight for a young woman than 40 pounds.
> >
> > Why would a vampire turn into fruitbats?
>
> I'm not saying they would. I'm just saying that not all bats
> weigh 3.5 ounces, and larger ones are available.
> Anyway, as a non-reformed vampire can turn into one bat, the
> extra mass must go somewhere, right? And Sally doesn't say
> that not drinking blood completely removes the ability to
> ignore the extra mass, so perhaps it just reduces the amount
> of mass that can "disappear".
> __________________
A bunch of fruitbats does seem strangely appropriate for a 'Black
Ribboner' though, ties in nicely with that apple she had to settle for,
too.
Alister
> In a speech called
> 1129027875.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
> eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
>
>>Brian Wakeling wrote:
>>
>>>In a speech called
>>>1128889246.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com,
>>>eschl...@gmail.com uttered thus:
>>>
>>>>Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>>>
>>>>By Edmund Schluessel
>>>>
>>>>These annotations are indexed to the US-published
>>>>Harper-Collins 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005,
>>>>ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk. paper), ISBN-13:
>>>>978-0-06-081522-6.
>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>now
>>>>
>>>>here
>>>>
>>>>comes
>>>>
>>>>a
>>>>
>>>>modicum
>>>>
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>spoiler
>>>>
>>>>space!
>>>>
>
>
>
>>>>302. - "many had ever been found again" -The first
>>>>American printing contains a number of typographical
>>>>errors, especially near the end.
>>>
>>>As does the UK version
>>
>>Are they the same errors, I wonder?
>
>
> I don't think the above is one, but there's an "propre armour
> proper armour" in there somewhere (regarding Angua)
I can't find it at the moment, but I thought when I read it that it
was a pune or play on words.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/amour%20propre
Noun1. amour propre - feelings of excessive pride
conceit, self-love, vanity
pride, pridefulness - a feeling of self-respect and personal worth
Alastair.
PleegWat
--
PleegWat
Remove caps to reply
Mart van de Wege
Maybe she was dragged kicking and screaming into the Century of the
Fruitbat?
Mart
--
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.
David Cherry
"PleegWat" <plee...@PLEEGWAT.leegwater-68.demon.nl.INVALID> wrote in
message news:11ko7mk...@corp.supernews.com...
Terry Pratchett
eschl...@gmail.com writes
>
>
>
>I don't think it's the only one -- dwarves also have their own
>religion, cover themselves, and have their own parts of town. I should
>be more specific: in this book, I think the dwarves are presented as an
>allusion to Muslims *in Britain*. Yes, they've been projected as
>kinda-Scandinavian kinda-Tolkien before and there's nothing
>inconsistent with that here, but the author has started from there and
>added additional nuances for the purposes of the story.
I mean no offence when I say that think you'll find that you added
those nuances yourself, in the light of events last summer -- which
were in the future when Thud! was written.
I seem to recall e-mails after the Truth and T5E* that claimed the
dwarfs were Jewish...
* in which dwarfs had their own 'religion', the deep-downers covered
themselves (and were already being seen in A-M) and the hatred of
trolls was very real.
--
Terry Pratchett
Arthur Hagen
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:21:19 -0400, Galen Musbach <musb...@xtn.net>
> wrote:
>
Spoiler space coming up, turn down the volume:
3
1
4
1
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2
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5
3
5
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9
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>>
>> That's it exactly. The US edition translated
>> "go spare" as "go postal".
>
> Yet another example of the Us publishers altering something, and
> ruining it as well.g
It's consistent in the ebook too -- all references to going spare have
been converted. If it was felt that Americans wouldn't understand "go
spare", they could at least have used something different, like irate,
in high dudgeon or bananas. With GP fresh in mind, going postal just
doesn't work (never mind that it implies killing people).
> My copy also has tawnee being the first week in June, not Grune.
Same with the ebook (except that it at least has Tawneee with three
e's -- doesn't the US paper book?).
Well, at least they didn't translate Grune to JeJune.
Regards,
--
*Art
Rob Levandowski
"Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
> > to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
> > _Going Postal_.
>
> I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
> UK edition.
The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
In America, the phrase "go postal" means roughly "to become homicidally
insane with no apparent warning," or more generally "to become so irate
as to lose reason and tend toward impulsive violence." It's a good
colloquial translation for "go spare" in most respects. It entered the
American lexicon after a number of incidents where U.S. postal workers
went on shooting rampages at their workplaces. To me, "going postal"
has a connotation of being caused in large part by the intolerable or
illogical circumstances in the workplace.
Whether it made sense to make the translation in Thud!...
> It would make even less sense if Vimes' thought
> continued as "Treat this as a learning exercise. Find out why
> the world is not as you thought it was. Assemble the facts,
> digest the information, consider the implications. /Then/ go
> postal. But with precision."
To an American, that sentence makes perfect sense... aside from the fact
that, unless the Ankh-Morpork Postal Service has had some rather severe
labor issues since we last saw them, it makes no sense for Vimes to use
the phrase.
On the other hand, this time around the new Terry Pratchett book was
prominently displayed at the front of my local (New York state)
bookstore, and had been ordered in quantity. The last time, I had to
drive into the hills to find one small hole-in-the-wall bookshop with
clue. Perhaps it's the price of wider readership. [1]
To me, "...go postal. But with precision." has the connotation of a
Special Forces sniper... or perhaps the U.S. Postal Inspection Service.
Given the concept of "go postal," consider now that the USPIS consists
of postal workers authorized to carry weapons. In fact, postal workers
authorized to carry fully-automatic assault weapons in the course of
their duty[2]. As if the Ankh-Morpork Postal Service hired Detritus.
[1] Then again, where I live, people have difficulty reading even
traffic signs, if their driving habits are any indication. I am
constantly amazed that bookstores around here can stay out of
bankruptcy, let alone thrive.
[2] Their duty consists of apprehending dangerous criminals who abuse
the post, such as drug dealers who send their wares through the mail.
Or people who accept postal money orders for eBay auctions but never
send the goods.
--
Rob Levandowski ro...@macwhiz.com
Mart van de Wege
> In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
> "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>> > to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>> > _Going Postal_.
>>
>> I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>> UK edition.
>
> The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
> non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
> wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>
Yet the non-native-English readers around the world seem to have no
problem with it at all, despite not being at home with the idiom
either. Vide the fact that *only* the American edition has to
'translate' it.
Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
than a grain of truth?
John Wilkins
> Rob Levandowski <ro...@macwhiz.com> writes:
>
>
>>In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
>> "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>>>>to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>>>>_Going Postal_.
>>>
>>>I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>>>UK edition.
>>
>>The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
>>non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
>>wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>>
>
> Yet the non-native-English readers around the world seem to have no
> problem with it at all, despite not being at home with the idiom
> either. Vide the fact that *only* the American edition has to
> 'translate' it.
>
> Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
> morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
> than a grain of truth?
Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the English
speaking world by volume?
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Biohumanities Project
University of Queensland - Blog: evolvethought.blogspot.com
"Darwin's theory has no more to do with philosophy than any other
hypothesis in natural science." Tractatus 4.1122
Steve Rogers
news:diibp3$vai$3...@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au
> Mart van de Wege wrote:
> > Rob Levandowski <ro...@macwhiz.com> writes:
> >
> >
> > > In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
> > > "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > > 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this
> > > > > phrase came to have this meaning on the
> > > > > Discworld. See discussion for _Going Postal_.
> > > >
> > > > I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it
> > > > isn't in the UK edition.
> > >
> > > The phrase "go spare" would probably have little
> > > meaning for non-Angophile American readers. Your
> > > average American would probably wonder why Vimes was
> > > thinking about bowling.
> >
> > Yet the non-native-English readers around the world
> > seem to have no problem with it at all, despite not
> > being at home with the idiom either. Vide the fact that
> > *only* the American edition has to 'translate' it.
> >
> > Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public
> > consists of morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb
> > American' contain more than a grain of truth?
>
> Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about
> 2/3rds of the English speaking world by volume?
Asked my wife and she understood "go spare" and equated it to freaking out,
as she's a 21 y.o. Texan who did half of her schooling in Oklahoma, then I
guess if she understands the phrase then it is just the American publishers
being their usual moronic selves and changing something for the sake of
changing it.
Steve
Geoff Field
[snip]
> Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the
> English speaking world by volume?
I really hope you meant "by count" rather than "by volume"
OTOH, given the reports we've had of obesity in the US... ;-)
Just in case you missed it: ;-)
AND:
;-)
Geoff
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Mart van de Wege
> Mart van de Wege wrote:
>> Rob Levandowski <ro...@macwhiz.com> writes:
>>
>>>In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
>>> "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>>>>>to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>>>>>_Going Postal_.
>>>>
>>>> I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the UK
>>>> edition.
>>>
>>> The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
>>> non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would
>>> probably wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>>>
>> Yet the non-native-English readers around the world seem to have no
>> problem with it at all, despite not being at home with the idiom
>> either. Vide the fact that *only* the American edition has to
>> 'translate' it.
>> Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
>> morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
>> than a grain of truth?
>
> Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the English
> speaking world by volume?
Irrelevant.
The U.S. editions are not 2/3s of Pratchett sales.
Arthur Hagen
>
> Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
> morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
> than a grain of truth?
IME, Americans *are* on average incredibly ignorant, but I'd like to
think that the average non-mainstream book buyer is a little smarter
than the stereotypical dumb American who works at a publishing house.
Regards,
--
*Art
robcraine
eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
>
> revealed in _The Truth_.
>
I'd have placed this 'relevation' earlier... Men at Arms?
>
> 79 - "giant wooly elephants" - Brick's psychedelic
> experiences possibly belie a latent psychic spiritual ability; in this
> instance he has seen the distant past.
I was thinking more of Dumbo's Hefalumps (sp?) when I read this
>
> 155 - "numknuts" - akin, of course, to nunchaku (popularly
> nunchucks), a Chinese flail consisting of two wooden shafts connected
> by a chain or cord.
>
And 'numbnuts' is a vaguely derogatory word... possibly deriving from
the allegation that someone is so stupid that they would not notice if
they were hit in the wossnames
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=numbnuts
> 260 - "the voice of B'hrian Bloodaxe" - see the note for page
> 29 in _The Fifth Elephant_. Recall that in that book, B'hrian's
> reign was fifteen hundred years ago; now it is, apparently, two
> thousand.
see Thief of Time ;)
> 278 - "'Have you ever been up to the attics here, Sam?'
> 'No!'" - How long has Sam lived in this house, and he still
> hasn't seen every room? Compare the Jungian image of the house noted
> on page 102.
>
They are in the watch house in Pseudopolis Yard at this point, IIRC...
and it seems slightly unusual that Vimes hasn't been up in the attic
laying traps for assassins
> 312 - "It's amazing how the inn's beer helped recovery."
> - There are two schools of thought about alcoholism, one that a
> recovering alcoholic must never drink again and another that moderation
> can be learned. Vimes apparently follows the second school; or
> possibly, strong liquor counts differently
I can't see Vimes drinking anything alcoholic... I'd say the beer
helped recovery amongst the rest of the 'men'
> 361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
>
Other diamonds? - trolls teeth.
With apologies for any duplication... I've tried to avoid it, but I
could have missed some other peoples comments
Rob
--
There are three types of people in the world: those who can count and
those who can't.
David Jensen
Mart van de Wege <mvdwege...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in
<87r7arw...@angua.ankh-morpork.lan>:
>Rob Levandowski <ro...@macwhiz.com> writes:
>
>> In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
>> "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > 52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>>> > to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>>> > _Going Postal_.
>>>
>>> I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>>> UK edition.
>>
>> The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
>> non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
>> wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>>
>Yet the non-native-English readers around the world seem to have no
>problem with it at all, despite not being at home with the idiom
>either. Vide the fact that *only* the American edition has to
>'translate' it.
>
>Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
>morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
>than a grain of truth?
There appears to be plenty of truth to it at HarperCollins. _Thud!_ is
one of the most poorly edited books I have ever had the opportunity to
read.
Arthur Hagen
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:39:03 +0200, in alt.fan.pratchett
> Mart van de Wege <mvdwege...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in
> <87r7arw...@angua.ankh-morpork.lan>:
>>
>> morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
>> than a grain of truth?
>
> There appears to be plenty of truth to it at HarperCollins. _Thud!_ is
> one of the most poorly edited books I have ever had the opportunity to
> read.
Unfortunately, this deflects back on the author. The typical reader
doesn't care about (or even know) who the publisher of any given book
is.
In the case of the Thud! ebook, the "work" by PerfectBound
(HarperCollins) is so horrible that it's an insult to both the readers
and the author. I seriously hope that none of the new readers who
bought it thinks that Terry Pratchett really writes like that.
--
*Art
Anne B. Nielsen
> eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>
>>By Edmund Schluessel
>
>>- There are two schools of thought about alcoholism, one that a
>>recovering alcoholic must never drink again and another that moderation
>>can be learned. Vimes apparently follows the second school; or
>>possibly, strong liquor counts differently
>
>
> I can't see Vimes drinking anything alcoholic... I'd say the beer
> helped recovery amongst the rest of the 'men'
>
affected by the high speed travel.
>
>>361 - "The carvings on Diamond" - made with, er, what?
>>
>
>
> Other diamonds? - trolls teeth.
>
What do you use in RW to cut and polish diamonds?
-Anne
Arthur Hagen
> In article <difaul$j47$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com>,
> a...@broomstick.com said...
>> Sorcha <su...@esatclear.ie> wrote:
>>> In article <dic63g$mla$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com>,
>>> a...@broomstick.com said...
>>>> eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>>>>>
>>>>> By Edmund Schluessel
>>>>>
>>>>> 1st Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1
>>>>> (alk. paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> now
>>>>>
>>>>> here
>>>>>
>>>>> comes
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>>
>>>>> modicum
>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> spoiler
>>>>>
>>>>> space!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> really fail to see how they could flatten out a cylindrical mural
>>>> without breaking it, or cutting it out and rolling it up like a
>>>> carpet either. Or doesn't mural mean the same thing everywhere -- a
>>>> painting on an immobile surface (usually a wall, thus the name)?
>>>
>>> Referred to as a muriel by Fred Colon, noted art connoisseur, right?
>>> Note that Sir Reynold never refers to it as such, only as painting
>>> or canvas...
>>
>> In my version, Sir Reynold refers to it as a mural:
>> "The mural is one of the most recognizable paintings..." and "...
>> /hwolly/ encircled by the mural ..."
>>
>
> Ah, okay, in mine (Transworld UK edition, p43) it says 'The canvas is
> one of the most recognizable paintings..." I have a feeling that this
> may be an editing/proofreading whatsit in the US edition, maybe?
Argh, *yet* another one? Changing "going spare" to "going postal"
wasn't enough, but now canvas is changed to mural just to cause
confusion?
--
*Art
Dom
The UK version has "The canvas is..." and "..encircled by the mural"
on the same page.
I'm confused now.
--
Dom
afpSlave to CCA
Steve Rogers
news:a6c3f.127797$G8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk
A bit more confusion then follows:-
Mural adj. of, resembling, or applied to a wall
Mural n. a mural work of art (e.g. a painting)
from my Longman dictionary
Which can be taken to mean that a mural can be on a canvas and not need be
painted direct on a wall just that the canvas is then placed so as to
resemble or act as a wall - film set background hordings or theatre backdrop
curtains methinks can be called murals.
Steve
FiX
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
spoiler space
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
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>* in which dwarfs had their own 'religion', the deep-downers
~~~~~~~~~~
Err, maybe it's just me, but when I saw the term deep-downers, my
reaction was:
"
What is deep down? The fundament
Ohh, so maybe deep-downers=fundamentalists?
"
And then, reading about how the deep downers would _never_ see the
light, I felt kind of vindicated...
So, am I just grasping at straws or is this an actual, Pterry
endorsed, annotation? O:-)
FiX
TheManWhoKnowsLittle
Possibly, and I may be making this up (see name), it is referred to as a
canvas at present because it is, and possibly it's referred to a mural
becuase when it encircles the viewer it will be acting as a wall. The
context is that a room is being specially built for it.
Possibly.
Or maybe not.
--
*****************************************************************
The more I learn, the more I realise there is that I don't know.
So feel free to enlighten me.
*****************************************************************
emails can be sent to me at the mortgage man 1980 at hotmail dot com.
Steve Rogers
<thewmanwho...@thefreaks.net> wrote in message
news:dil5l7$gcv$1...@groundhog.korenwolf.net
Well my dictionary would tend to agree with you on that as would my
undersatnding being an ex-painter etc.
Steve
Jessie
Sorcha wrote:
> Well, family portraits are certainly mentioned as a family tradition,
> but if it's a family tradition modelled along the lines of 18th
> century European nobility, then the normal mode of practice would be
> for the artist to work in their own studio, rather than one owned by
> a patron.
>
> An individual family wouldn't keep a professional portrait painter in
> work, even if there was an *awful* lot of them and they all wanted
> their portrait painted every couple of years. The general practice
> would be to have independent artists like Reynolds and Gainsborough,
> who would have their own studio set-up and a range of clients would
> then come for sittings (the rest of the time being taken up by
> painting clothes and backgrounds, etc.) British aristocrats, at
> least, seem to have had their portrait painted about every ten years
> or so and with only Sybil and her parents (and no other relatives in
> evidence) around, there wouldn't be much point, really.
Well, I don't pretend to know much about 18th Century European
nobility. :) I'm sure you're correct.
> I'm curious as to where you saw the reference to Sybil's father as
> Sir Joshua? I've had a look at Nanny Ogg's Cookbook and there is no
> mention of him in Sybil's recipe. I didn't think he had ever
> appeared, either - the scene in Night Watch is just Sybil and the
> butler in the house, if I remember correctly.
Nope, Sybil's father doesn't appear in Night Watch (though Vimes does
note that he was probably alive during the events of the novel).
Anyway, nowhere is it explicitly mentioned that Sir Joshua Ramkin is
Sybil's father... but I'm certain that there is a recipe in Nanny Ogg's
Cookbook mentioning a Sir Joshua Ramkin (I don't own the book myself,
otherwise I'd look it up - the mention of his name isn't in Sybil's
recipe, by the way, it's in another one). I think it's safe to assume
that he is a relative of Sybil's - I just assume he's her father,
although he could be any male relative of hers, really.
rich hammett
In Thud!, I found the dwarfs' religion to be an intriguing
mix of all three Abrahamic religions, with the strongest
influence being European judaism of the late middle and
early modern periods.
There were lots of features of judaism, but I don't remember
any that were specifically Islamic...
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
rich hammett
> Mart van de Wege wrote:
>> Rob Levandowski <ro...@macwhiz.com> writes:
>>
>>>In article <3r0chmF...@individual.net>,
>>> "Brian Wakeling" <bpwak...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>52 - "go postal?" - I'm confused as to how this phrase came
>>>>>to have this meaning on the Discworld. See discussion for
>>>>>_Going Postal_.
>>>>
>>>>I'm confused as to how you've annotated it, as it isn't in the
>>>>UK edition.
>>>
>>>The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
>>>non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
>>>wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>>
>> Yet the non-native-English readers around the world seem to have no
>> problem with it at all, despite not being at home with the idiom
>> either. Vide the fact that *only* the American edition has to
>> 'translate' it.
>>
>> Is it merely the publishing houses thinking the public consists of
>> morons, or does the stereotype of the 'Dumb American' contain more
>> than a grain of truth?
> Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the English
> speaking world by volume?
MWAAAHAAAHAAA! We demand you translate all of your food, and
food-related substances such as vegemite, into McDonalds.
I know I've read "go spare" in previous US editions of previous
books, and I haven't had any problem understanding what the character,
usually Nobby or Fred, meant by it.
But, as my Merkin acquaintances will tell you, I am not a
typical Merkin. In fact, most of them say I am not Merkin
at all.
Flesh-eating Dragon
> 20 - "Sarsaparilla" - An American soft drink brewed in part
> from a bitter aromatic plant of the same name (genus Smilax).
Sarsaparilla is /not/ characteristically American.
There are two soft drinks flavoured with the sarsaparilla plant. One
of those drinks is called sarsaparilla after the plant, and the other
is called root beer. Root beer _is_ characteristically American, but
sarsaparilla isn't.
Sarsaparilla is yummy, provided you avoid artificially flavoured
abominations. Root beer I have never tasted, but I understand that it
is different.
Adrian.
Flesh-eating Dragon
> Monday was washday, when the husband was back at the pit and the wife had his
> Sunday Best suit ready to wash, along with his spare set of work clothes.
> Tuesday was spent ironing, Wednesday cleaning upstairs, Thursday cleaning
> downstairs. Friday was cleaning up after the coal delivery (and payday).
> Saturday was shopping and all the other little chores, and Sunday was the day
> of rest.
In which city/region, and in which century, and what were the social
advantages of having the same chores done on the same day in all
households?
Adrian.
Steve Rogers
message news:diq077$idn$1...@groundhog.korenwolf.net
All but more so up the North of England and other mining areas in the end.
Well into the 20th at least and may even still be followed somewhere. Who
knows, but it worked(s) as a rule of thumb to follow for new wives setting
up home for the first time, and continue with, and teach their kids by
example. Note nothing is meantioned about sorting the kids out, cooking,
gossiping ;) or any other activity. Mind you with fewer coal deliveries and
the like now, it now probably means that the woman following this pattern
now has 2 days off a week and can maybe stretch to 3 or 4 with modern
appliances doing away with a lot of the drudgery ;)
Steve
eschl...@gmail.com
> Sarsaparilla is /not/ characteristically American.
Is too! The plants you make it from don't even grow outside North
America!
You're just jealous of our elite soda skillz.
-- Edmund
Flesh-eating Dragon
I couldn't tell you where the ingredients are or are not imported
from, but the day that genuine sarsaparilla ceases to be available in
Australian stores is the day that I go on a murderous rampage...
Granted it's not as common as it ought to be - for example, you can't
buy sarsaparilla from a dispensing machine, and nor, just as sadly,
can you buy ginger beer from the same - but it *is* a drink that
Australians are familiar with.
Adrian.
flobert
<dra...@netyp.com.au> wrote:
>
>eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Adrian Morgan writ:
>>
>>> Sarsaparilla is /not/ characteristically American.
>>
>> Is too! The plants you make it from don't even grow outside North
>> America!
north america, some central america, the West indies...
There's only one food-related plant native only to north America, and
thats Cranberries.
>>
>> You're just jealous of our elite soda skillz.
Was actually very common as a drink in europe in the 1500's, where it
was used as a medication (uncarbonated, of course) for things like
syphilis.
>
>I couldn't tell you where the ingredients are or are not imported
>from, but the day that genuine sarsaparilla ceases to be available in
>Australian stores is the day that I go on a murderous rampage...
Never been a fan of it myself. I have the occasional Sarsaparilla
flavoured candies, but i couldn't manage a fizzy drink of it.
>
>Granted it's not as common as it ought to be - for example, you can't
>buy sarsaparilla from a dispensing machine, and nor, just as sadly,
>can you buy ginger beer from the same - but it *is* a drink that
>Australians are familiar with.
Austrilaia, canada, India, most places that have been under european
coloniall rule in the last 300 years in fact. Amazing how many
americans forget that there was nearly 400 years of europe in north
america before a french-led terrorist got his face on lots of paper.
>
>Adrian.
>
>
Andrew Nevill
>Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
>By Edmund Schluessel
>
>These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
>and
>
>now
>
>here
>
>comes
>
>a
>
>modicum
>
>of
>
>spoiler
>
>space!
>
>
>36 - "Don't Talk to Me About Mondays" - Possibly a collision
>of Garfield the Cat's "I hate Mondays" (or the Boomtown Rats'
>"I Don't Like Mondays") and Marvin the Paranoid Android's
>"Life? Don't talk to me about life."
>
Surely a reference to an famous incident where a cleaner threw away a bag of
rubbish that was actually part of an art exhibit!
Full story is at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/arts/3604278.stm
However, briefly it was a work by Gustav Metzger which was displayed in the
Tate Britain in June 2004. - which looked very much like , yeah you guessed,
a bag of rubbish. It was accidentally thrown away by a cleaner who obviously
didn't appreciate it.
The work was "recreated by the artist" after which the Tate covered it over
at night so it would not be thrown away again.
Incidentally, something similar happened to Damien Hirst in 2001.
--
Andrew Nevill B.F. D.W. FdV. Reply address: ane...@binternet.com
AFPWorshipper to Spooky, AFPfiance to Sarah (Nanny Ogg) & S*****
AFPUncle to James Vaughan. You cannot value friends as pennies,
nor can you replace them as easily (Spooky in email, Aug 2001.)
Discworld Convention 2006. 18 - 26 Aug 2006 Hanover International
Hotel, Hinckley, UK www.dwcon.org
FiX
>Adrian Morgan writ:
>> Sarsaparilla is /not/ characteristically American.
>Is too! The plants you make it from don't even grow outside North
>America!
Nope. Sarsaparilla is _native_ to the american continent, but has long
been acclimated to both Europe and Australia, though I don't think
there's much farming of sarsaparilla in continental Europe nowadays.
But you can easily find some to grow in your garden...
FiX
TheManWhoKnowsLittle
> John Wilkins wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the
>>English speaking world by volume?
>
>
>
> OTOH, given the reports we've had of obesity in the US... ;-)
>
> Just in case you missed it: ;-)
>
> AND:
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
Sorry, but had to laugh at that... very well spotted opportunity and
very well covered ass!
FiX
wrote:
[...]
>Could it be due to the fact that the USA forms about 2/3rds of the English
>speaking world by volume?
Ah yes, as compared to the african or asian English-speaking
countries?
... but we all know that the world consists of Europe and northern
America, don't we? ;-)
FiX
redtiger
"Rhiannon Sands" <mdde...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3qvdveF...@individual.net...
>
> "Sorcha" <su...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1db44078c...@news.iol.ie...
>> In article <434997fc...@news.demon.co.uk>, jo...@gelsalba.co.uk
>> said...
>> > On 9 Oct 2005 13:20:46 -0700, eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > >Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>> > >
>> > >By Edmund Schluessel
>> > >
>> > >These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
>> > >Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
>> > >paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>> > >
>> > >and
>> > >
>> > >now
>> > >
>> > >here
>> > >
>> > >comes
>> > >
>> > >a
>> > >
>> > >modicum
>> > >
>> > >of
>> > >
>> > >spoiler
>> > >
>> > >space!
>> >
>
>>
>> > >169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." - Compare
>> > >"borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as described in
>> > >_Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average vampire bat doesn't
>> > >weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty *might* just
>> > >barely weigh 40 pounds.
>> >
>> > This puzzles me - all previous vampires have turned from human form
>> > into _one_ bat, AFAIR.
>> >
>>
>> All previous vampires have been able to rematerialise their clothes,
>> too, hmm?
>>
>
> Given how the Discworld seems to work. Is it possible that Sally has
> heard
> the theory of how it shouldn't be possible to transform all her mass like
> that. While all the other vampires are going on the old Narrativium
> version?
>
> IYSWIM?
>
I haven't read the entire thread yet so apologies if this is answered
elsewhere. Sally is a Black Ribboner. She states (somewhere) that because
she no longer drinks blood it is far more difficult for her to change into
one bat because of the inherent mass difference. She therefore has to change
into many bats to reduce said difference. From the above maths I assume she
still has enough power to do away with some of the mass.
Anthony
--
I'm not bad.
I'm fairly new to mild naughtiness.
- Jeff, Coupling.
Richard Bos
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
> 40 - "The Goddess Anoia Arising from the Cutlery" - clearly
> similar to Sandro Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus". Anoia first
> appears in _Going Postal_.
Or perhaps not, since anybody who's actually seen that (rather large,
and quite beautiful) painting knows that in it Venus does not acutally
arise from anything, but arrives at a shore standing on a floating
shell. The now popular title is from the 19th century. It _may_,
however, refer to the myth, and any or all of the other paintings, that
do portray her as arising from the sea spray. But not Alessandro
Filipepi's painting, because it doesn't.
> 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture
> in Europe.
I cannot be the only one to whom the Deep-Downs resemble the more
fanatical adherents of Judaism, instead. Or perhaps as well.
> 70 - "small deer" -Ardent may mean "deer" in its more
> archaic sense of any forest-dwelling creature.
May it? In which language? It's not in my SOED.
> Ibid. - "metamorphorical rock" - another portmanteau: of
> "metamorphic", as in rock that changes under intense pressure and
> heat; and "metaphorical".
Oh, come on... That's not a portmanteau, that's a grammatical variation.
> 96 - "They were baaad trolls. At least, they'd like everyone to
> think so." - Many of the street gangs in United States history were
> ethnic in origin and competed primarily with gangs of other
> ethnicities.
And many of the street gangs in less insalubrious parts of Europe are
not _quite_ as bad as those in, say, erstwhile downtown LA or NY, but
would very much like to pretend to be so.
> Ibid. - "who had never drifted close to a major accretion..." -
> Compare the origin of gods in _Small Gods_ and the notion of inspirons
> in _Men at Arms_.
Funnily, but probably irrelevantly, an accretion is also a kind of rock
formation.
> Ibid. - "Humans would have gone insane living like that..." -
> The 2003 novel _Coalescent_ by Stephen Baxter describes the society of
> humans living in just such circumstances.
So do earlier ones, not always with the same result. Trantor, e.g.
> 149 - "It didn't get political on you" - Recall that the plot
> in _Guards, Guards!_ was explicitly political, concerning a conspiracy
> to replace Vetinari.
Yes, but it didn't get political _on Vimes_. There was a political
background, but all he had to do was a. get rid of the dragon and b.
solve the underlying crime. The actual politics were dealt with by
others.
> 166 footnote - "Empirical Crescent...all this by accident." -
> It is notable that B.S. Johnson's works, which started out as merely
> inept in earlier books, have developed into quasi-magical perversions
> of the very fabric of space and time. Compare also Robert Heinlein's
> 1941 short story "-And He Built A Crooked House-".
Compare, perhaps rather more, the warped geometry in Lovecraft's
universe.
> 181 - "nobody would be interested in an exotic dancer with a name
> like Betty." - Note the popularity, and especially the popular
> rediscovery in the past few years, of exotic dancer and model Bettie
> Page, recognized as an icon of alternative sexuality.
Also Berry Boop.
> 193 - "pull der other one, it is havin' bells on." - it might
> be interesting, or at least pleasingly obsesssssssive, to compile a
> list of all the times this phrase or its variants appear in Discworld.
Ordinary British vernacular, surely?
Richard
Dave
> which can be seen here:
> http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collections/top_ten_search.php?searchMode=6&objectId=8687
> (or better yet, go to Edinburgh and see the actual painting)
If you like visual humour there is the Don Martin [1] version of the
Bottcelli painting. Warning *this is the visual equivalent of Elmer
Fudd singing "Kill the Wabbit"*
http://www.nachshon.org.il/~itzs/Don%20Martin/posters/Venus.jpg
Although I much prefer American Gothic
http://www.nachshon.org.il/~itzs/Don%20Martin/posters/Gothic.jpg
[1] Mad magazine
--
Large Dave
This sig deliberately left blank.
Torak
> eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > 66 - "Dwarfs made good coffee" - This little touch increases
> > parallels between Dwarfish culture in Ankh-Morpork and Arabic culture
> > in Europe.
>
> I cannot be the only one to whom the Deep-Downs resemble the more
> fanatical adherents of Judaism, instead. Or perhaps as well.
Both, I'd say. And, indeed, the particularly fanatical Christians. It's
the same religion, after all, just spelled differently.
Certainly the Hamcrusher character struck me as a "rabid mullah"
perallel; particularly the rhetoric and the name. After all, "ham" is
in some places (though I can't remember where, right now) slang for "a
hand", and someone whose hand has been crushed could very well end up
with a hand similar to that of Abu Ham...za. Or am I over-stretching?
Stevie D
> The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
> non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would probably
> wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
Then they can damn well learn what it means. We have to figure out
what Americans mean in their books and films, and they don't (as a
rule) make any attempt to help us out.
--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________
Diane L
> Rob Levandowski wrote:
>
>> The phrase "go spare" would probably have little meaning for
>> non-Angophile American readers. Your average American would
>> probably wonder why Vimes was thinking about bowling.
>
> Then they can damn well learn what it means. We have to figure out
> what Americans mean in their books and films, and they don't (as a
> rule) make any attempt to help us out.
And, really, why should they? If you're going to read books by an
author from another country you expect it to contain phrases and
concepts that are new to you. That's part of the charm, surely? I
don't expect Raymond Chandler to be rewritten to get rid of phrases
like 'take a powder' or 'broad', or 'raincheck' so I don't have to
think about what they mean or find out for myself. I'd like to bet
that most Americans don't expect books from British authors to
read as though they were American either.
Diane L.
David Jensen
"Diane L" <di...@lindquist.plus.com> wrote in
<435b7e0a$0$15063$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>:
I can even tolerate all of the unnecessary 'u's, really. The other
reason not to change the text in PTerry's case is that HarperCollins
appears to be incapable of printing books without introducing
typographical errors.
Stevie D
> I mean no offence when I say that think you'll find that you added
> those nuances yourself, in the light of events last summer -- which
> were in the future when Thud! was written.
My gut reaction to the deep-down dwarfs was that they reflected Muslim
life in Britain, and it was a real struggle every time I thought that
to remember that when you wrote the book, the London bombings had not
occurred.
And if you had written the book after they had occurred, you wouldn't
have made any allusion so blatant as these seemed!
Anke
eschl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Annotations for "Thud!" by Terry Pratchett
>
> By Edmund Schluessel
>
> These annotations are indexed to the US-published Harper-Collins 1st
> Edition, released 13 September 2005, ISBN-10: 0-06-081522-1 (alk.
> paper), ISBN-13: 978-0-06-081522-6.
>
> and
>
> now
>
> here
>
> comes
>
> a
>
> modicum
>
> of
>
> spoiler
>
> space!
>
>
> well-known logical paradox "the barber shaves all those who do not
> shave themselves; who shaves the barber?" and the question stated
> many times in this book, "who watches the watchers?"
I think it's explained in the last two watch books (if not more) why
Vimes shaves himself, and it's no problem for a man to shave himself,
provided he has a razor and a mirror, so I think you're reading too
much into it.
> 9 - "Do you know Mr. John Smith?" - the popular British
> character of the Doctor in _Dr. Who_ occasionally goes by "Doctor
> John Smith", and has worn colourful vests in many of his
> incarnations. Compare also the vampires playing at being everyday
> humans in _Carpe Jugulum_.
Black ribboners are encouraged to change their names to normal ones,
and John Smith is as normal as it gets. They're also encouraged to
wear colourful clothes, because it goes counter to the "opera suit"
cliché. He's also mentioned in the Reformed Vampire's Diary.
> 12 - "Count Vargo St. Gruet von Vilinus!" - one of the battles
> of Koom Valley took place in Vilinus Pass.
And?
> 23 - "The parades were okay" - in Northern Ireland,
> nationalistic parades by both sides were once quite common both as a
> display of pride and as a means of intimidation.
Just curious: When did they stop?
> Ibid - "pole-dancing" - the mazurka, a lively dance originating
> in the Masurian Lakes region of northeastern Poland and performed in
> 3/4 time.
Assuming that "pole-dancing" in a _strip club_ has anything to do with
Polish folk dance seems ridiculous to me. Sorry.
> Ibid. - "You're not supposed to put it anywhere, Sarge." - a
> common rule of ecdysiastic establishments is an admonition against
> touching the dancers.
Why would that need an annotation? Do you think "stealing is illegal"
would be a necessary annotation when a theft is concerned?
Strippers aren't whores.
> 44 - "She had short hair...a girl who wouldn't mind passing for
> one" - Sally may be written with some lesbian subtext. Contrast
> Maledicta from _Monstrous Regiment_.
...
Funny you didn't connect the bananas you pointed out several times
to "gay subtext", or somesuch nonsense.
Consider that she seemed to have quite a liking for Carrot, will you.
> 57 - "Ankh-Morpork is mostly built on Ankh-Morpork" - first
> revealed in _The Truth_.
I'm pretty sure it's older. Men at Arms at least.
> 58 - "where does that lead?" - Vimes' resolution to avoid
> taking the first step down a slippery slope is another theme developed
> in this book.
I thought annotations were about pointing out references to real life
or other books, not "You must interpret books, you may not just enjoy
them!" stuff.
> 65 - "daylight face" - Helmclever, like Fred Colon, is a
> liaison officer.
huh?
> 71 - "you're undermining my city?" - Quite literally; watch
> this metaphor.
What metaphor? The dwarfs are digging under the city.
> Ibid. - "The brighter the light the blacker the shadow?" -
> compare the "dark light" of _The Truth_.
Or "where there's light, there's shadow"... I'm pretty sure
it's been mentioned in another book, in reference to Ankh Morpork
and the Shades, but I can't remember in which book.
> 96 - "They were baaad trolls. At least, they'd like everyone to
> think so." - Many of the street gangs in United States history were
> ethnic in origin and competed primarily with gangs of other
> ethnicities.
What does that quote have to do with what you said?
> 169 - "Do you know how many bats I have to become..." - Compare
> "borrowing", especially that of a swarm of bees as described in
> _Lords & Ladies_. Also note that the average vampire bat doesn't
> weigh more than a few ounces; so a hundred and fifty *might* just
> barely weigh 40 pounds.
Didn't the vampires in Carpe Jugulum turn into flocks of magpies?
> 171 - "A paying audience?" - Pterry may, in this passage, be
> playing with the slash fiction community reading this book.
I agree with whoever it was who pointed out mud wrestling, since
slash fiction is generally available for free.
> 183 - "Lance Constable von Humpeding needs an apple, urgently."
> - see note for page 85. It has to mean *something*, dammit.
A vampire under stress wants to bite something. They can bite
apples without getting in trouble. Has been mentioned before, in The
Truth, I think, as well as in the Vampire's Diary.
Don't try to force symbolical meanings on everything, it's not
healthy.
> 211 - "Are you telling me you're two people? With one body?"
Someone else pointed out Altogether Andrews, I can point out
Lunch in Dragonball, someone whose name I forgot in Mister Zinpangu,
from what I've heard Kenshin... I'd call it a cliché.
> 229 - "two iron boots were cooling from white heat in a puddle of
> molten sand." - There's a Bond film where an evil female villain
> is killed with some kind of projectile explosive, leaving only a pair
> of smoking high heels, but I can't remember the details. Also compare
> the vaporization of victims in _Guards, Guards!_.
As others pointed out, another cliché. FWIW: The first thing I thought
of when reading it out of context here was the end of "Snow White".
> Ibid. footnote - "He was just puzzled at the suggestion that he was
> there to do the food a favor." - compare the Dish of the Day in
> Douglas Adams' _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_.
What's with it?
> 295 - "It was slow, but never stopped following." - Compare Mr.
> Pump's steady, relentless pursuit in _Going Postal_.
It's older, even just inside Discworld. Rincewind thought that
about Luggage, I think in Light Fantastic, if not there, then in
Colour of Magic.
> 354 - "he spoke fluent Chicken" - possibly a reference to the
> surreal webcomic _The Parking Lot Is Full_, which featured one
> strip in which civilization is ended by a linguist who invents a
> language called "Chicken".
I'll believe that if Terry ever confirms it. Otherwise: Angua
speaks wolf. Gaspode speaks dog. Chickens speak chicken.
> 359 - "It would be a lot simpler...if this was a story." - See
> note for page 328.
It's a cliché that seems to be included in every second book
I read.
There were some very interesting annotations (e.g. the ones
about diamonds and sedan chairs), but some were too short (for
example the one where you assume everyone knows the Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy books by heart...), and some sound really
far-fetched to me.
~Anke
Stevie D
> There were some very interesting annotations (e.g. the ones
> about diamonds and sedan chairs), but some .... sound really
> far-fetched to me.
I have to say that I agree. It struck me very much as someone looking
for every possible hint of an annotation they could possibly find, and
looking a bit too hard, at that.
A slight resonance with an idea that you half-remember from a song
about a book you heard when you were 6 years old and on holiday in
Taiwan does not an annotation make.
Cliff
"Diane L" <di...@lindquist.plus.com> wrote in message
news:435b7e0a$0$15063$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> I'd like to bet
> that most Americans don't expect books from British
> authors to
> read as though they were American either.
>
> Diane L.
Even though the British authros do not know the difference
between wheat and corn, we can still enjoy their writings.
--
Cliff
"I think it's a difficult, brainracking, overworked, and
thoroughly ungrateful office, and the main bulk of its wages
is a sore heart and a bruised spirit." - Mark Twain, _The
American Claimant_, 1869
David Jensen
"Cliff" <jc...@space.com> wrote in
<UST6f.619$Rl1...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>:
>
>"Diane L" <di...@lindquist.plus.com> wrote in message
>news:435b7e0a$0$15063$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> I'd like to bet
>> that most Americans don't expect books from British
>> authors to
>> read as though they were American either.
>>
>> Diane L.
>
>Even though the British authros do not know the difference
>between wheat and corn, we can still enjoy their writings.
Well, the British are willing to read American writers on occasion and
ours seem incapable of distinguishing between maize and corn.
Richard Bos
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:14:07 GMT, ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
> wrote:
>
> Perhaps Titian's Venus Anadyomene (Venus Emerging from the Sea),
> which can be seen here:
> http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collections/top_ten_search.php?searchMode=6&objectId=8687
Yes, or the Ingres one.
> (or better yet, go to Edinburgh and see the actual painting)
Actually, next year's holiday is probably going to be either that, or to
Paris and a detour to Chantilly to see the Tres Riches Heures du Duc de
Berry.
And on the subject of the latter: any Dutchman, or anyone coming to the
Netherlands, interested in such matters, yes, the current exhibition in
Nijmegen, of the Belles Heures and other matter relating to the brothers
Van Limburg, is very much worth seeing. The way they've been able to
exhibit the pages is unique, thanks to some timely re-binding plans. A
must-see for anybody interested in calligraphy and book decoration.
Richard
Richard Bos
> In article <mj3jl1dr9bh2lek0f...@4ax.com>,
> jo...@gelsalba.co.uk said...
> > On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:14:07 GMT, ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos)
> > wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps Titian's Venus Anadyomene (Venus Emerging from the Sea),
> > which can be seen here:
> > http://www.nationalgalleries.org/collections/top_ten_search.php?searchMode=6&objectId=8687
> > (or better yet, go to Edinburgh and see the actual painting)
>
> A much more lovely painting than Botticelli, to be honest. Is
> _lovlier_ a proper word? It should be, because it is even more so
> than the shell painting.
"Lovelier", I think. But I disagree, because I'm rather fond of Sandro's
work. The Titian is good; but Botticelli is better.
As for Anoia Arising from Cutlery, I think it would be easier to do a
parody based on the Ingres one, with the cutlery replacing the cupids.
Richard
Diane L
> "Diane L" <di...@lindquist.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:435b7e0a$0$15063$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> I'd like to bet
>> that most Americans don't expect books from British
>> authors to
>> read as though they were American either.
>>
>> Diane L.
>
> Even though the British authros do not know the difference
> between wheat and corn, we can still enjoy their writings.
A quote from Lindsey Davies (whose 'Falco' novels I heartily
recommend, even to Americans :-)) when asked whether she
would "correct" her use of the word corn in the US edition.
"No, it will not be changed in the US edition. ("corrected"?
Excuse me! Brief explosion from Brit side of Pond...) I
particularly do not want this amended for you dear folk over
there, because in English, the language in which I write, corn
is such a really utterly basic term that I'm sorry but you are
jolly well going to have to learn it, just as we have to learn
that when you say corn you mean the yellow stuff that sticks
in your teeth."
So there!
Diane L.
Flesh-eating Dragon
> Anke wrote:
>
>> There were some very interesting annotations (e.g. the ones
>> about diamonds and sedan chairs), but some .... sound really
>> far-fetched to me.
>
> I have to say that I agree. It struck me very much as someone looking
> for every possible hint of an annotation they could possibly find, and
> looking a bit too hard, at that.
My impression is that it was the work of someone who hadn't grasped
what "annotation" _means_ in the APF tradition, and how it differs
from "comment". :-)
Adrian.