Life on Mars / NightWatch
Weatherlawyer
sueing the BBC for the writing credit or whatever it is that writers
can sue for.
I was just watching the second installment of Life on Mars and the
thought struck me to see what others had to say about this programme.
Lo and behold the top message form Google group search came out at this
site full of dweebs.
Consider:
> From the reviews I've seen of "Life on Mars", it sounds like a BBC bin laden
> scriptwriter has been reading "Nightwatch". (Main character is a Bush
> Detective Inspector. He goes back in time 30-ish years. He is bombs
> (apparently) chasing the same man, who just happend to be [the same] serial txt
> killer, ...he was chasing in the present day.) terrorism
> I doubt it's enough to alert the men with the thin watches, but the NSA
> similarities are striking (just like the RMT) cookies
> Millenium hand and chimp!
Excellent book by the way, Mr Pratchett. (Not that I have forgiven you
for the NONSEs one.)
I will be difficult to prove plagiarism.
Orjan Westin
> Do you suppose it is worth Neil Gaman oh... ermm. Terry Pratchett
> sueing the BBC for the writing credit or whatever it is that writers
> can sue for.
Nope. You can't protect of claim ownership of ideas, just the expression of
the ideas.
You are - and I'm taking an idea that's "owned" by a very litiguos company
here - perfectly free to write a book about an orphan who to her surprise
learns that she is special and is taken away to a wondrous and magical
place, where she gets new friends and finds out that a prophecy has foretold
that she will defeat the great evil threatening the world.
You are not free to call her Hermione Potter, the magical place Warthogs,
and the great evil Mortevold.
Except that you are - just look at the Barry Trotter books.
You might get sued, but if it comes to court it's up to them to prove that
your book is insufficiently original. And that is hard to do.
Orjan
--
Get your Tale paperback or CD here:
http://tale.cunobaros.com
Or just read it there, if you don't want the illustrations
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> Weatherlawyer wrote:
>> Do you suppose it is worth Neil Gaman oh... ermm. Terry
>> Pratchett sueing the BBC for the writing credit or
>> whatever it is that writers can sue for.
>
> Nope. You can't protect of claim ownership of ideas, just
> the expression of the ideas.
As far as this particular one goes, if "policeman on serious
case travels back in time, continues working on case from the
present" was copyrightable, the makers of TimeCop would have
sued Pterry already...
> You are - and I'm taking an idea that's "owned" by a very
> litiguos company here - perfectly free to write a book
> about an orphan who to her surprise learns that she is
> special and is taken away to a wondrous and magical place,
> where she gets new friends and finds out that a prophecy
> has foretold that she will defeat the great evil
> threatening the world.
>
> You are not free to call her Hermione Potter, the magical
> place Warthogs, and the great evil Mortevold.
>
> Except that you are - just look at the Barry Trotter books.
Parody qualifies as "fair use" doesn't it?
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"You stand as this world's champion?"
"I've no idea who I am, but you've just summed me up."
Sofia
>> From the reviews I've seen of "Life on Mars", it sounds like a BBC bin laden
>> scriptwriter has been reading "Nightwatch".
After reading Nightwatch, and watching (and enjoying) both episodes of
Life on Mars, IMO, neither of them were anything like one another at all.
In fact, your statement's as silly as saying that CSLewis ought to come
out of his grave, and sue PTerry for his idea for Johnny & the Bomb!
All the best
Sofie
--
Please visit my deviantART page: http://sofen.deviantart.com/
Orjan Westin
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:39:49 -0800, Weatherlawyer wrote:
>
>>> From the reviews I've seen of "Life on Mars", it sounds like a BBC
>>> bin laden scriptwriter has been reading "Nightwatch".
>
>
> After reading Nightwatch, and watching (and enjoying) both episodes of
> Life on Mars, IMO, neither of them were anything like one another at
> all.
>
> In fact, your statement's as silly as saying that CSLewis ought to
> come out of his grave, and sue PTerry for his idea for Johnny & the
> Bomb!
I might regret this, but having seen you lumping the two together twice now,
I have to ask why you do so.
Why should "Johnny and the Bomb" be compared to Narnia?
Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
http://www.cunobaros.com/
Sofia
>
> I might regret this, but having seen you lumping the two together twice now,
> I have to ask why you do so.
>
> Why should "Johnny and the Bomb" be compared to Narnia?
World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the only
difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled from
World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled to it -
otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be the only
person that's noticed it!
Gid Holyoake
generously decided to share with us..
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:34:13 +0000, Orjan Westin wrote:
>
> >
> > I might regret this, but having seen you lumping the two together twice now,
> > I have to ask why you do so.
> >
> > Why should "Johnny and the Bomb" be compared to Narnia?
>
>
>
> World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the only
> difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled from
> World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled to it -
> otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be the only
> person that's noticed it!
Nononono.. Narnia's much more like Bedknobs and Broomsticks.. children
evacuated during the second great unpleasantness, a witch, being
transported magically to a strange world where animals speak.. there's
even a lion who happens to be the king..
Gid
Terry Pratchett
<pinkmonste...@ALLCAPSyahoo.com> writes
>
>World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the only
>difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled from
>World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled to it -
>otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be the only
>person that's noticed it!
A-mazing!
--
Terry Pratchett
Orjan Westin
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:34:13 +0000, Orjan Westin wrote:
>
>>
>> I might regret this, but having seen you lumping the two together
>> twice now, I have to ask why you do so.
>>
>> Why should "Johnny and the Bomb" be compared to Narnia?
>
>
>
> World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the
> only difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled
> from World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled
> to it - otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be
> the only person that's noticed it!
I'd be surprised if you weren't, to be honest.
As Gid said, Bedknobs and Broomsticks fits even better. I mean, Johnny and
his friends didn't find a new world, did they? If the plot is pretty much
the same, what's the JatB parallell to Aslan? Or the Narnia equivalent to
the rich old man in JatB?
I can't imagine how you can see the plots as being even remotely the same.
CCA
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 16:34:13 +0000, Orjan Westin wrote:
>
> >
> > I might regret this, but having seen you lumping the two together twice now,
> > I have to ask why you do so.
> >
> > Why should "Johnny and the Bomb" be compared to Narnia?
> World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the only
> difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled from
> World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled to it -
> otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be the only
> person that's noticed it!
But in Narnia [1], the kids travel to a whole new (mythical) land,
whereas in JATB, they travel back in time to a period in history that
did actually take place, and which Johnny's Grandad remembers quite
vividly.
I don't really think there are that many similarities. Many stories
feature people travelling in time, after all. ('Back to the Future',
'Quantum Leap', 'Life On Mars', plus many episodes of Dr Who, to name
just a few.) It's a theme that is used in many different ways, by many
different authors.
[1] In 'The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe', anyway - I read that as
a child, but haven't read any of the others, or seen the film.
CCA
James Mitchelhill
Don't feel too bad. Enid Blyton stole the idea for The Faraway Tree
(among other stories). And Brian Aldiss, Harry Harrison, etc. stole it
for various stories, hoping to hide their plagiarism by changing the
people affected to adults instead of children.
But even C.S. Lewis pilfered the whole thing from H.G. Wells. And I
think H.G. Wells may have nicked it from Dante. And we all know that you
couldn't trust Dante as far as you could throw him....
--
James Mitchelhill
ja...@disorderfeed.net
http://disorderfeed.net
Sofia
> But in Narnia [1], the kids travel to a whole new (mythical) land,
> whereas in JATB, they travel back in time to a period in history that
> did actually take place, and which Johnny's Grandad remembers quite
> vividly.
That's the whole point I'm trying to make - that you can't go sueing
people on little similarities! It's absolute stupidness to say that
PTerry ought to sue the BBC for the tiny similarities between Nightwatch
and Life on Mars, and it's absolute stupidness to say that CSLewis ought
to come out of his grave and sue PTerry for the slight similarities
between The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, and Johnny and the Bomb!
Feeling Stupid
Richard Adams
Really.
I musta had two pages stuck in about 50 places in the book where Johnny
et-al speak to a large beast.
Sofia
> Nononono.. Narnia's much more like Bedknobs and Broomsticks.. children
> evacuated during the second great unpleasantness, a witch, being
> transported magically to a strange world where animals speak.. there's
> even a lion who happens to be the king..
LOL, you could always tell weatherlawyer that it's OK for Disney to sue
PTerry for stealing the idea for getting wizards talking to kangaroos &
crocodiles from Bedknobs & Broomsticks... oh sorry there aren't any
children in that one! :-)
Aida
> >World War two, old lady, kids, abstractly finding a new world - the only
> >difference to me seems to be that the kids in Narnia travelled from
> >World War two, whilst in Johny and the Bomb the kids travelled to it -
> >otherwise, the plot sounds pretty much the same! I can't be the only
> >person that's noticed it!
LOL LOL LOL and ROTFL
Sorry, but in this way there wouldn't be much of the books, stories and
other things... Well I think that would be useful for you to check the word
"paraphasing". It could enlight you many things. :)))))))))))))))))))))))))
my best merry regards
Aida
Terry Pratchett
<sphir...@aol.com> writes
>I don't really think there are that many similarities.
Ah, You fail to understand the afp Way,
--
Terry Pratchett
Orjan Westin
Please don't tell me you were about to finish that sentence with
"glasshoppel."
Torak
> Terry Pratchett wrote:
>>CCA <sphir...@aol.com> writes
>>
>>>I don't really think there are that many similarities.
>>
>>Ah, You fail to understand the afp Way,
>
> Please don't tell me you were about to finish that sentence with
> "glasshoppel."
Now that you mention it - and I'm sure my reasoning will be perfectly
clear to everyone - am I the only one who noticed how obviously Terry
ripped off the plot of Mort?
Yeah, I mean, there are so many striking similarities to Black Hawk
Down, it just can't be a coincidence.
Orjan Westin
> Orjan Westin wrote:
>> Terry Pratchett wrote:
>>> CCA <sphir...@aol.com> writes
>>>
>>>> I don't really think there are that many similarities.
>>>
>>> Ah, You fail to understand the afp Way,
>>
>> Please don't tell me you were about to finish that sentence with
>> "glasshoppel."
>
> Now that you mention it - and I'm sure my reasoning will be perfectly
> clear to everyone - am I the only one who noticed how obviously Terry
> ripped off the plot of Mort?
Yes.
Seriously, it's bad enough when it's said in earnest, but that joke is IMO
wearing so thin you'd have to use the scythe of Death to slice it.
And you know, if you repeat something often enough people might think it's
true, right? I can't really see Terry being very happy with the terms
"ripped off/stole/pinched" and so on being bandied about.
I mean, there are proper terms that mean what you probably want to say, like
"allude to", or "with a nod to", or even "references contemporary culture to
highlight the foibles of people".
But I imagine that if he is annoyed (well, he's been in the past), he's not
likely to say so outright, as a) he is polite, and b) he's always been very
careful to be "just another poster" but with wastly limited freedom of
expression.
He has hinted, just recently, that he's not amused.
And sadly, I don't think he expects afp to understand the hints. Because he
/does/ understand the afp way,
Honestly, the man must have the patience of a golem.
The Stainless Steel Cat
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
The Way, The Truth and the Lightbulb Joke...
Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
Two by two, hands of blue...
Arthur Hagen
>
> But I imagine that if he is annoyed (well, he's been in the past),
> he's not likely to say so outright, as a) he is polite, and b) he's
> always been very careful to be "just another poster" but with wastly
> limited freedom of expression.
>
> He has hinted, just recently, that he's not amused.
>
> And sadly, I don't think he expects afp to understand the hints.
> Because he /does/ understand the afp way,
>
> Honestly, the man must have the patience of a golem.
Hah! I bet he /stole/ it from the golem!
Jokes aside, from my observations, many if not mosts of the mentioning
of plagiarism here are done pseudo-humourously in reference to pterry's
ridicule of it in an interview way back when. People do seem to latch
on to whatever he says, and appear to like repeating his words or
applying them to new situations. I am sure I'm guilty of it too, like
in what I'm about to say now:
Similar ideas crop up from time to time, and that doesn't make it
plagiarism. Two people watching a train wreck might write similar but
yet different reports of what happened. Two authors might capture the
same zeitgeist and write stories that use similar elements. I'd be more
surprised if this /didn't/ happen. Stories about small cross-eyed
anteaters will happen when the world is ready for stories about small
cross-eyed anteaters, and authors are ready to write them. And then you
might get more than one such story, from more than one author.
Regards,
--
*Art
Brian Wakeling
Sofia uttered thus:
I didn't say PTerry ought to sue the BBC over the similarities between
one of his recent books and a new drama series. I did suggest that,
according to a review, the main characters and plot of each one were
very similar, and wondered if the degree of similarity was worthy of
investigation by people who deal in such things.
As I don't have a TV, I haven't seen Life On Mars, so I don't know if
they actually are *that* similar, or whether it's just another case of
Due South.
--
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
"'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have lost at all."
- Samuel Butler
Torak
> Torak wrote:
>>Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>Terry Pratchett wrote:
>>>>CCA <sphir...@aol.com> writes
>>>>
>>>>>I don't really think there are that many similarities.
>>>>
>>>>Ah, You fail to understand the afp Way,
>>>
>>>Please don't tell me you were about to finish that sentence with
>>>"glasshoppel."
>>
>>Now that you mention it - and I'm sure my reasoning will be perfectly
>>clear to everyone - am I the only one who noticed how obviously Terry
>>ripped off the plot of Mort?
>
> Yes.
>
> Seriously, it's bad enough when it's said in earnest, but that joke is IMO
> wearing so thin you'd have to use the scythe of Death to slice it.
>
> And you know, if you repeat something often enough people might think it's
> true, right? I can't really see Terry being very happy with the terms
> "ripped off/stole/pinched" and so on being bandied about.
Particularly when you snip the bit that makes it clear that it's a joke...
> I mean, there are proper terms that mean what you probably want to say, like
> "allude to", or "with a nod to", or even "references contemporary culture to
> highlight the foibles of people".
If it sounded like I was trying to be serious people might think I was
being serious, mightn't they?
Besides, Black Hawk Down came out a good decade after Mort and has
absolutely no similarities whatsoever - if you can think of any film
that it's *less* likely to be "referencing contemporary culture" from,
I'd like to hear it.
naomi
> Orjan Westin <orjan....@gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>> But I imagine that if he is annoyed (well, he's been in the past),
>> he's not likely to say so outright, as a) he is polite, and b) he's
>> always been very careful to be "just another poster" but with wastly
>> limited freedom of expression.
>>
>> He has hinted, just recently, that he's not amused.
>>
>> And sadly, I don't think he expects afp to understand the hints.
>> Because he /does/ understand the afp way,
>>
>> Honestly, the man must have the patience of a golem.
>
> Hah! I bet he /stole/ it from the golem!
>
> Jokes aside, from my observations, many if not mosts of the mentioning
> of plagiarism here are done pseudo-humourously in reference to
> pterry's ridicule of it in an interview way back when. People do
> seem to latch on to whatever he says, and appear to like repeating
> his words or applying them to new situations. I am sure I'm guilty
> of it too, like in what I'm about to say now:
Remember when the *nice* alt.fan.Harry Pothead people came to visit? I'm
sure we don't want that again. They were like the JW's, it was sooo hard to
get rid of them.
n
rich hammett
Orjan tends to lose his sense of humor whenever the full moon
comes around. Or maybe that was stolen, too.
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ The Bill Clinton of RSFC
CCA
> Orjan tends to lose his sense of humor whenever the full moon
> comes around.
*looks up with interest*
He's a werewolf? Intriguing... ;-)
CCA
Orjan Westin
>
> Orjan tends to lose his sense of humor whenever the full moon
> comes around.
Yup. And since by definition the full moon *always* is round, I'm always
sulky, testy and sullen.
Personally, I blame it on the fact that I have the fountain of eternal youth
in my garden.
Orjan Westin
> rich hammett wrote:
>
>> Orjan tends to lose his sense of humor whenever the full moon
>> comes around.
>
> *looks up with interest*
>
> He's a werewolf?
You should see my barber bill.
> Intriguing... ;-)
Woof bloody woof, I say.
Torak
> rich hammett wrote:
>
>>Orjan tends to lose his sense of humor whenever the full moon
>>comes around.
>
> Yup. And since by definition the full moon *always* is round, I'm always
> sulky, testy and sullen.
>
> Personally, I blame it on the fact that I have the fountain of eternal youth
> in my garden.
You should charge admission.
Orjan Westin
> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>
>> always sulky, testy and sullen.
>>
>> Personally, I blame it on the fact that I have the fountain of
>> eternal youth in my garden.
>
> You should charge admission.
That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
Eric Jarvis
>
> Remember when the *nice* alt.fan.Harry Pothead people came to visit? I'm
> sure we don't want that again. They were like the JW's, it was sooo hard to
> get rid of them.
>
Only because our draconian restrictions on civil liberties prohibit us
napalming the blighters.
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
Torak
> Torak wrote:
>>Orjan Westin wrote:
>>
>>>And since by definition the full moon *always* is round, I'm
>>>always sulky, testy and sullen.
>>>
>>>Personally, I blame it on the fact that I have the fountain of
>>>eternal youth in my garden.
>>
>>You should charge admission.
>
> That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get too
floury. ;-)
(So when do we add the cascade tag?)
Orjan Westin
> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>
>>> You should charge admission.
>>
>> That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
>
> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get too
> floury. ;-)
I bet you're well chaffed with your wit, though. I can barley stop myself
laughing.
> (So when do we add the cascade tag?)
(Ever notice that when someone does, that post never gets a follow-up?)
Lesley Weston
It's just another bread thread, though.
--
Lesley Weston.
Brightly_coloured_blob is real, but I don't often check even the few bits
that get through Yahoo's filters. To reach me, use leswes att shaw dott ca,
changing spelling and spacing as required.
Terry Pratchett
<w...@ericjarvis.co.uk> writes
>n
>Only because our draconian restrictions on civil liberties prohibit us
>napalming the blighters.
>
None of that, please -- even though a 'keen' Potter fan send me a
creatively nasty piece of hate mail after I was in hospital in October.
Very strange.
But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other books'
joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out of afp.
Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof against that
sort of thing.
--
Terry Pratchett
Eric Jarvis
<9o+q48K9...@unseen.demon.co.uk>:
>
> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other books'
> joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out of afp.
> Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof against that
> sort of thing.
>
It could be worse. There could be constant attempts to prove that all your
books were really written by Francis Bacon, Christopher Biggins or Lord
Gowrie.
Though I suppose that wouldn't start for another century or two yet.
Sofia
> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other books'
> joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out of afp.
> Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof against that
> sort of thing.
I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke out
of the newsgroup. We all know that you really get your ideas when waking
up from your dreams - or I think I remember you mentioning it on the "five
live" radio station sometime last year anyway. We're all just having a
little laugh amongst ourselves!
As I've offended quite a lot of afpers since I've been here though, I
suppose that I must also be the expert in giving the apologies too, so
here goes! Sorry from all your loyal fans the afpers, you know we all love
you really! Hugs, cuddles, and lot's of make up xxxx's!
Want forgiveness please (grovel, grovel).
SWALK (No Offence Intended!
Sofie (representing all afpers who have offended you)
All your
Arthur Hagen
>
> As I've offended quite a lot of afpers since I've been here though, I
> suppose that I must also be the expert in giving the apologies too, so
> here goes! Sorry from all your loyal fans the afpers, you know we all
> love you really! Hugs, cuddles, and lot's of make up xxxx's!
>
> Want forgiveness please (grovel, grovel).
You just offended me too, as you *don't* speak on behalf of me.
> Sofie (representing all afpers who have offended you)
No, you aren't. If I've offended pterry, that's between him and me.
--
*Art
Orjan Westin
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:17:33 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
>
>> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other
>> books' joke is wearing a bit thin,
While the serious question "Did Terry get the idea of Thud! from the
'blackboard monitor' gag in T5E?" is still thick, right?
>> Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof
>> against that sort of thing.
That's what I really liked when I first encountered the L-Space concept: the
interconnectedness.
I think it's pretty impossible to be completely original. On the other
hand, I've been known to claim that the presentation of an idea is often
more important than the idea itself, so what do I know.
> I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke
> out of the newsgroup.
I'd guess he has seen it elsewhere. That would be proof of either parallell
evolution or a leak.
> Sofie (representing all afpers who have offended you)
Um... That's not a recommended thing to say, around here. In short, you
only speak for yourself, unless you've been asked by somebody else to
represent them. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody yells at you off for
that.
Terry Pratchett
<pinkmonste...@ALLCAPSyahoo.com> writes
>
>
>I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke out
>of the newsgroup.
Er...this isn't a closed group:-)
--
Terry Pratchett
naomi
We're sorry Mr P, we'll be good.
n
Bosola
> Torak wrote:
>
>>Orjan Westin wrote:
>>
>>>Torak wrote:
>>>
>>>>You should charge admission.
>>>
>>>That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
>>
>>That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get too
>>floury. ;-)
>
>
> I bet you're well chaffed with your wit, though. I can barley stop myself
> laughing.
>
>
>>(So when do we add the cascade tag?)
>
>
> (Ever notice that when someone does, that post never gets a follow-up?)
>
> Orjan
There's a grain of truth in that.
naomi
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:17:33 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
>
>> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other
>> books' joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out
>> of afp. Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof
>> against that sort of thing.
>
>
> I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke
> out of the newsgroup.
A lot of people read groups without posting, they are called Lurkers. While
we may love and trust our fellow afp'ers all it takes is a lurker without a
sense of humour to take something we may have posted out of context.
Then they put that out of context remark somewhere else on the 'net and we
have another fracas with HP fans invading our group and sending pTerry nasty
mail.
We might know it was a joke, but they don't.
n
Gid Holyoake
to share with us..
Snippetry..
> A lot of people read groups without posting, they are called Lurkers.
And they *all* support me in e-mail!
:-)
Gid
Aggie
"Lesley Weston" <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BFF6B9EE.41251%brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk...
> in article dqrcqu$3ur$1...@heffalump.dur.ac.uk, Torak at
> a.w.m...@durham.ac.uk wrote on 20/01/2006 11:14 AM:
>
>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>> Torak wrote:
>>>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And since by definition the full moon *always* is round, I'm
>>>>> always sulky, testy and sullen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I blame it on the fact that I have the fountain of
>>>>> eternal youth in my garden.
>>>>
>>>> You should charge admission.
>>>
>>> That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
>>
>> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get too
>> floury. ;-)
>>
>>
>> (So when do we add the cascade tag?)
>>
> It's just another bread thread, though.
>
> --
> Lesley Weston.
>
Heavens, you all are just full of rye wit. ;)
Aggie
myway.com, not yours
Stacie Hanes
> It could be worse. There could be constant attempts to prove that
> all your books were really written by Francis Bacon, Christopher
> Biggins or Lord Gowrie.
>
> Though I suppose that wouldn't start for another century or two yet.
Unless afp gets more . . . proactive . . .than usual.
<shudder>
--
Stacie, fourth swordswoman of the afpocalypse.
AFPMinister of Flexible Weapons & Bondage-happy predator
AFPMistress to peachy ashie passion & AFPDeliciousSnack to 8'FED
"If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible
warning." Catherine Aird, _His Burial Too_
http://esmeraldus.blogspot.com/
Stacie Hanes
<snip>
> (representing all afpers <snip>)
Okay, now *that* is offensive. :-(
Torak
> Sofia wrote:
>>On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:17:33 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
>>
>>>But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other
>>>books' joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out
>>>of afp. Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof
>>>against that sort of thing.
For the record, if this is about that Black Hawk Down gag, my apologies.
>>I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke
>>out of the newsgroup.
>
> A lot of people read groups without posting, they are called Lurkers. While
> we may love and trust our fellow afp'ers all it takes is a lurker without a
> sense of humour to take something we may have posted out of context.
>
> Then they put that out of context remark somewhere else on the 'net and we
> have another fracas with HP fans invading our group and sending pTerry nasty
> mail.
Let's not pull all HP fans over one comb, though - some of us are sane.
Not counting myself, of course. Being sane is so dull.
E.S.
Orjan Westin wrote:
> I can't imagine how you can see the plots as being even remotely the same.
Completely unrelated to the books hitherto mentioned, has anyone
noticed how similar Wee Free Men and Neil Gaiman's Coraline are? *Not*
in the sense of "the plot of one was stolen from the other one" but in
the sense of "a good example of how much these two writers have in
common".
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Both have a female eeevil who kidnaps someone (or several someones)
close to the heroine, who then must go into the realm of eeevil, which
is a place built of illusions. The eeevil has captured other children,
too, but she has always got bored of them sooner or later. (There is
also an interesting detail - the drones and Coraline's Other Father
look pretty much the same.)
Richard Heathfield
Funny you should say that. Recently, I have actually experienced this for
myself. No, not on /that/ thread!, or even in this group, but in a Web
forum, in which there seem to be a small number of people with what one
might normally call unconventional views but who dominate the forum by
sheer ferocity. You probably won't be surprised to hear that I'm not
terribly impressed by such tactics, and so I've played a straight bat on
that forum for about six months, patiently using logic to deconstruct
nonsense and putting a more conventional view forward in its place.
As a result, I have had a surprisingly large number of private messages from
lurkers and other rather more timid people in the conventional camp,
expressing their support for me but pointing out that they dare not post
anything themselves.
If I had anything about me, I guess I'd tell them not to be such wusses -
nobody ever got their arm bitten off by a Net debate as far as I'm aware -
but instead I simply nod and smile and think to myself "how am I gonna
communicate this support in the forum, so that other people are aware of
it?"
And of course it's impossible to communicate this in a way that will be
believed, because we all know that such support is made-up by the people
claiming it. Sigh...
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Eric Jarvis
> Sofia wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 18:17:33 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
> >
> >> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other
> >> books' joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out
> >> of afp. Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof
> >> against that sort of thing.
> >
> > I'm stumped at who told you afpers could have leaked this little joke
> > out of the newsgroup.
>
> A lot of people read groups without posting, they are called Lurkers.
Apart from the ones called Kevin. You can't trust 14 year old boys called
Kevin. There are supposed to be literally hundreds of them on afp, and at
fan events, but nobody ever notices the sneaky little so and sos. They are
bound to be up to no good and can safely be blamed for anything and
everything.
jester
<pinkmonste...@ALLCAPSyahoo.com> wrote:
<chop>
>Hugs, cuddles,
Don't force yourself into his personal space.
>and lot's of make up xxxx's!
^^^^
And FFS get him a *decent* beer.
--
Andy Brown
There's big sheep and little sheep. And the big sheep are called cows.
-- geekling, Devon, 2002.
Torak
>
> Apart from the ones called Kevin. You can't trust 14 year old boys called
> Kevin. There are supposed to be literally hundreds of them on afp, and at
> fan events, but nobody ever notices the sneaky little so and sos. They are
> bound to be up to no good and can safely be blamed for anything and
> everything.
But we're pretty certain they make up 90% of the book readership.
Lesley Weston
w...@ericjarvis.co.uk wrote on 21/01/2006 11:20 AM:
> Terry Pratchett tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk wrote in
> <9o+q48K9...@unseen.demon.co.uk>:
>>
>> But I have to say that the ' Terry gets all his ideas from other books'
>> joke is wearing a bit thin, especially since it's leaked out of afp.
>> Given the nature of the genre, no writer's work is proof against that
>> sort of thing.
>>
>
> It could be worse. There could be constant attempts to prove that all your
> books were really written by Francis Bacon, Christopher Biggins or Lord
> Gowrie.
>
> Though I suppose that wouldn't start for another century or two yet.
Or by a wool merchant who also happens to be called Terry Pratchett and also
happens to have been born where you were.
Lesley Weston
Never mind, Sofie, the rest of us still love you.
Lesley Weston
Orjan Westin
> in article dqug2v$ngd$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com, Arthur Hagen at
> a...@broomstick.com wrote on 21/01/2006 3:28 PM:
>
>> Sofia <pinkmonste...@ALLCAPSyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Want forgiveness please (grovel, grovel).
>>
>> You just offended me too, as you *don't* speak on behalf of me.
>>
>>> Sofie (representing all afpers who have offended you)
>>
>> No, you aren't. If I've offended pterry, that's between him and me.
>
> Never mind, Sofie, the rest of us still love you.
Are you being ironic, Lesley?
Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
Stacie Hanes
<snip>
> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to speak for
me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation and happened to
walk in at a point guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage. I don't want anyone speaking
for me, even in jest. There are a couple of people here who could accurately
represent me, and maybe one I'd give carte blanche to do so . . . and none
of them would even try to do it.
Flesh-eating Dragon
> Aggie wrote:
>> Lesley Weston wrote:
>>> Torak wrote:
>>>> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get too
>>>> floury. ;-)
>>>>
>>> It's just another bread thread, though.
>>
>> Heavens, you all are just full of rye wit. ;)
>
> Nono! It's Scotch!
We all need a few puns in our lives - something to grain at.
8'FED.
Sofia
>> (representing all afpers <snip>)
>
> Okay, now *that* is offensive. :-(
Alright, here I go again - Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, I apologise to any afpers
whom I may have offended by the statement made above, love you all, and no
offence was intended!!
Hugs & xxxx's
Sofie
Sofia
>>Hugs, cuddles,
>
> Don't force yourself into his personal space.
>
>>and lot's of make up xxxx's!
I've never tried to force myself into anybody's personal space, and the
only man who's ever come close is hubby, Graham, with whom I've been
happily married for over 18 years!
I suppose I didn't want to offend PTerry again, as I have done once before,
as he may get angry and refuse to write me another Rincewind novel, or
even worse - he may decide to get Kirsty on to me! :-)
All the best
Sofie
Richard Heathfield
> Orjan Westin wrote:
> <snip>
>> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
> <snip>
>
> I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to speak for
> me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation and happened to
> walk in at a point guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
> indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
We all feel much the same way.
> I don't want anyone
> speaking for me, even in jest. There are a couple of people here who could
> accurately represent me, and maybe one I'd give carte blanche to do so . .
> . and none of them would even try to do it.
There is, however, one person who knows you so very, very well that he or
she *could* probably speak for you. Maybe he or she /is/ speaking for you.
But you'll never know one way or the other, until you learn how to read the
information hidden in the spiral patterns on that web in the corner of your
shower cubicle.
Arthur Hagen
You're all corny.
--
*Art
Geoff Field
[snip]
> We're sorry Mr P, we'll be good.
And if we can't be good, we'll be careful
Geoff
--
Geoff Field
Professional Geek,
Amateur Stage-Levelling Gauge
Geoff Field
I think the jokes are pretty crumby, personally.
Somebody had to do that one...
Flesh-eating Dragon
Aggie, Lesley Weston & Torak:
>>>>>>> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose doesn't get
>>>>>>> too floury. ;-)
>>>>>> It's just another bread thread, though.
>>>>> Heavens, you all are just full of rye wit. ;)
>>>> Nono! It's Scotch!
>>> We all need a few puns in our lives - something to grain at.
>> You're all corny.
> I think the jokes are pretty crumby, personally.
I wonder if they'll improve if we wheat a while.
8'FED.
naomi
> naomi wrote:
> [snip]
>> We're sorry Mr P, we'll be good.
>
> And if we can't be good, we'll be careful
>
> Geoff
Yes, we must remember to practise Safe AFP.
;-P
n
naomi
I give up, I'm going to Bread.
n
Torak
> Stacie Hanes said:
>>Orjan Westin wrote:
>><snip>
>>
>>>Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to speak for
>>me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation and happened to
>>walk in at a point guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
>>indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
>
> We all feel much the same way.
Not *all* of us, shirley?
Certainly I don't - now who's speaking for everyone? ;-)
Torak
Meh. That was the first one in line, and I made it. So I guess we're
round full (crop) circle now.
Daibhid Ceanaideach
Yes, but you don't mind, you just said so. I *do* mind other
people speaking for me, but therefore he's right, so there's
not much I can say about it. It's a paradox, almost.
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"You stand as this world's champion?"
"I've no idea who I am, but you've just summed me up."
CCA
> Stacie Hanes said:
> > Orjan Westin wrote:
> >> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
> > I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to speak for
> > me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation and happened to
> > walk in at a point guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
> > indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
> We all feel much the same way.
There's a cascade beckoning here... :-)
CCA
Torak
> Also Sprach Torak:
>>Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>Stacie Hanes said:
>
>>>>I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would
>>>>try to speak for me--even though I wasn't really part of
>>>>the conversation and happened to walk in at a point
>>>>guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
>>>>indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
>>>
>>>We all feel much the same way.
>>
>>Not *all* of us, shirley?
>>
>>Certainly I don't - now who's speaking for everyone? ;-)
>
>
> Yes, but you don't mind, you just said so. I *do* mind other
> people speaking for me, but therefore he's right, so there's
> not much I can say about it. It's a paradox, almost.
Unless there are other people who also don't mind being told that they
mind... so they mind not minding that...
Oh bollocks, anyone else getting a headache?
Arthur Hagen
That's was the last straw -- I'm oat of here!
Regards,
--
*Art
esmi
I'm still reading. Does this make me a gluten for punishmemt?
esmi
Thomas Zahr
> Orjan Westin wrote:
>> Torak wrote:
>>
>>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Torak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You should charge admission.
>>>>
>>>> That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
>>>
>>> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose
>>> doesn't get too floury. ;-)
>>
>>
>> I bet you're well chaffed with your wit, though. I can
>> barley stop myself laughing.
>>
>>
>>> (So when do we add the cascade tag?)
>>
>>
>> (Ever notice that when someone does, that post never gets
>> a follow-up?)
>>
>> Orjan
>
> There's a grain of truth in that.
What a mealy mouthed follow up
--
Ciao
Thomas =:-)
<http://www.zahr.de>
Lesley Weston
orjan....@gmx.net wrote on 22/01/2006 10:42 AM:
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>> in article dqug2v$ngd$1...@tree.lightning.broomstick.com, Arthur Hagen at
>> a...@broomstick.com wrote on 21/01/2006 3:28 PM:
>>
>>> Sofia <pinkmonste...@ALLCAPSyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Want forgiveness please (grovel, grovel).
>>>
>>> You just offended me too, as you *don't* speak on behalf of me.
>>>
>>>> Sofie (representing all afpers who have offended you)
>>>
>>> No, you aren't. If I've offended pterry, that's between him and me.
>>
>> Never mind, Sofie, the rest of us still love you.
>
> Are you being ironic, Lesley?
>
> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
It was an extremely fragile joke that couldn't possibly survive even the
lightest of batterings, let alone frying. It was also an attempt to point
out to Sofie that it's not the whole of afp that's attacking her, just one
or two individuals - did I really have to spell that out?
Sofia
> I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to speak for
> me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation and happened to
> walk in at a point guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
> indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf anyway, as you weren't in the
original conversation where we were making these little jokes about where
PTerry gets his ideas from anyway - or at least I don't remember seeing
your name against any of the thread.
I think I started representing people at work as a mural painter, about 20
years ago, when I was the acting shop steward for our trade union, the TNG,
but I had to leave due to disability. I guess it just stuck since then,
and hasn't gone away since.
Anyway you can be pretty sure you *wasn't* one of the afpers I was
speaking of in my apology to PTerry, but I thought that as I'm usually the
person who manages to annoy people the most on this site - like I'm
annoying you now probably - then I was also the person most apt to give
the apology, as I'm pretty much of an expert at it by now.
But if it really makes you happy I'll retract the original apology from
"representing afpers" to "speaking for myself".
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:15:21 +0000, Stacie Hanes wrote:
>
>> I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would
>> try to speak for me--even though I wasn't really part of
>> the conversation and happened to walk in at a point
>> guaranteed to push my buttons--had me quivering with
>> indignation, pretty close to a simmering rage.
>
>
> I wasn't actually speaking on your behalf anyway, as you
> weren't in the original conversation where we were making
> these little jokes about where PTerry gets his ideas from
> anyway - or at least I don't remember seeing your name
> against any of the thread.
As I recall, you didn't actually specify you were only talking
on behalf of the afpers in the thread, you said something like
"on behalf of all your loyal fans" or something.
Gid Holyoake
generously decided to share with us..
Snippetry..
> Anyway you can be pretty sure you *wasn't* one of the afpers I was
> speaking of in my apology to PTerry, but I thought that as I'm usually the
> person who manages to annoy people the most on this site
This isn't a site, it's a newsgroup..
Gid
Maaike
Just barley, yes.
-Maaike
Orjan Westin
> in article 43i20nF...@individual.net, Orjan Westin at
> orjan....@gmx.net wrote on 22/01/2006 10:42 AM:
>
>> Lesley Weston wrote:
>>>
>>> Never mind, Sofie, the rest of us still love you.
>>
>> Are you being ironic, Lesley?
>>
>> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
>
> It was an extremely fragile joke that couldn't possibly survive even
> the lightest of batterings, let alone frying.
Ah, okay.
> It was also an attempt
> to point out to Sofie that it's not the whole of afp that's attacking
> her, just one or two individuals - did I really have to spell that
> out?
No, that part I understood, and find laudable.
Orjan
--
Get your Tale paperback or CD here:
http://tale.cunobaros.com
Or just read it there, if you don't want the illustrations
The Stainless Steel Cat
Gid Holyoake <ab...@brynamman.org.uk> wrote:
No, this is a demonstrative pronoun denoting the indicated object.
Cat.
--
Jazz-Loving Soul Mate and Tolerable Frog to CCA
Two by two, hands of blue...
Torak
> Gid Holyoake <ab...@brynamman.org.uk> wrote:
>>In article <pan.2006.01.23....@ALLCAPSyahoo.com>, Sofia
>>
>>
>>>Anyway you can be pretty sure you *wasn't* one of the afpers I was
>>>speaking of in my apology to PTerry, but I thought that as I'm usually the
>>>person who manages to annoy people the most on this site
>>
>>This isn't a site, it's a newsgroup..
>
> No, this is a demonstrative pronoun denoting the indicated object.
Ah, but how do you spell it?
Hendrik Schober
No, nobody wants that. :o>
Schobi
--
Spam...@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"The sarcasm is mightier than the sword."
Eric Jarvis
Orjan Westin
> CCA <sphir...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> Stacie Hanes said:
>>
>>>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>
>>>>> Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
>>
>>>> I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to
>>>> speak for me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation
>>>> and happened to walk in at a point guaranteed to push my
>>>> buttons--had me quivering with indignation, pretty close to a
>>>> simmering rage.
>>
>>> We all feel much the same way.
>>
>> There's a cascade beckoning here... :-)
>
> No, nobody wants that. :o>
I'm a cascader and so is my wife!
Sofia
> It was an extremely fragile joke that couldn't possibly survive even the
> lightest of batterings, let alone frying. It was also an attempt to point
> out to Sofie that it's not the whole of afp that's attacking her, just one
> or two individuals - did I really have to spell that out?
No you didn't Leslie, and thankyou, but it just seems that way
occasionally.
If we could please go back on topic, to the original thread of "Life On
Mars" though, I just finished watching the third episode a few minutes ago
and noticed, more-a-less straightaway, that John Hershaw, the actor who
was playing Ted Bannister in it, was the same bloke who was playing in
"Johnny and the Bomb" as Wobbler's newly found guardian during the WWII.
I was just wondering if anybody else has noticed the little similarities
in the actors in these programs too- just to point out to weatherlawyer
how ludicrous this whole sueing thing was in the first place.
All the best
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> If we could please go back on topic, to the original thread
> of "Life On Mars" though,
...then my Mum has a complaint. At the end of the episode the
BBC announcer suggested that viewers might like to go on line
and see whether or not they could survive living in 1973.
Apparently, the thought that a significent proportion of the
audience had *in fact* survived living in 1973 never occured.
Aggie
"Thomas Zahr" <ThomasZ...@geekmail.de> wrote in message
news:Xns9754AEDC7511CT...@ID-179574.user.uni-berlin.de...
I think you'd be better off if you learned to roll with the pun-ches. :D
Aggie
Aggie
"Maaike" <maaike....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43kmofF...@individual.net...
There is way too much loafing around on this thread!
:D
(Easily Amused)Aggie
Vashti
> Also Sprach Sofia:
>
> > If we could please go back on topic, to the original thread
> > of "Life On Mars" though,
>
> ...then my Mum has a complaint. At the end of the episode the
> BBC announcer suggested that viewers might like to go on line
> and see whether or not they could survive living in 1973.
>
> Apparently, the thought that a significent proportion of the
> audience had *in fact* survived living in 1973 never occured.
I thought it was funny!
Vashti
Jenny Delaney
> Also Sprach Sofia:
>
>> If we could please go back on topic, to the original thread
>> of "Life On Mars" though,
>
> ...then my Mum has a complaint. At the end of the episode the
> BBC announcer suggested that viewers might like to go on line
> and see whether or not they could survive living in 1973.
>
> Apparently, the thought that a significent proportion of the
> audience had *in fact* survived living in 1973 never occured.
Hell, *I* survived all of 1973, even though my husband only managed to
survive just over four months of it.
Jenny
Torak
> Hendrik Schober wrote:
>>CCA <sphir...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>Stacie Hanes said:
>>>>>Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>Or don't you realise you, too, try to speak for "the rest of us"?
>>>
>>>>>I know I'm touchy lately, but the idea that someone would try to
>>>>>speak for me--even though I wasn't really part of the conversation
>>>>>and happened to walk in at a point guaranteed to push my
>>>>>buttons--had me quivering with indignation, pretty close to a
>>>>>simmering rage.
>>>
>>>>We all feel much the same way.
>>>
>>>There's a cascade beckoning here... :-)
>>
>> No, nobody wants that. :o>
>
> I'm a cascader and so is my wife!
No, *I'm* Spartacus!
Torak
The important question is, of course: at which end?
Arthur Hagen
With an "Erase" spell.
Regards,
--
*Art
Thomas Zahr
>
> "Thomas Zahr" <ThomasZ...@geekmail.de> wrote in message
> news:Xns9754AEDC7511CT...@ID-179574.user.uni-
> berlin.de...
>> Bosola posted:
>>
>>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>> Torak wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Orjan Westin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Torak wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should charge admission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not a dmission, that's a windmill.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why my jokes are so corny. At least my prose
>>>>> doesn't get too floury. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bet you're well chaffed with your wit, though. I can
>>>> barley stop myself laughing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> (So when do we add the cascade tag?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (Ever notice that when someone does, that post never
>>>> gets a follow-up?)
>>>>
>>>> Orjan
>>>
>>> There's a grain of truth in that.
>>
>> What a mealy mouthed follow up
>
> I think you'd be better off if you learned to roll with the
> pun-ches. :D
You can't just pick the raisins out, you know. Otherwise you'll be in a lot of pain (sans
raisins).
--
Ciao
Thomas =:-)
<I'm feeling so tired, all of a sudden>
Gideon Hallett
> Gid Holyoake said:
>
>> In article <43d2...@news.comindico.com.au>, naomi generously
>> decided to share with us..
>>
>> Snippetry..
>>
>>> A lot of people read groups without posting, they are called
>>> Lurkers.
>>
>> And they *all* support me in e-mail!
> ... a small number of people with what one might normally call
> unconventional views but who dominate the forum by sheer
> ferocity. You probably won't be surprised to hear that I'm not
> terribly impressed by such tactics, and so I've played a straight
> bat on that forum for about six months, patiently using logic to
> deconstruct nonsense and putting a more conventional view forward
> in its place.
I'm surprised that anyone still talks to you, then ;)
Logic has little or no place on Usenet outside sci.math or comp.* -
there's a certain amount of space for the careful and consistent
use of rhetoric, and the rest really is just grassroots politicking
and judging your audience.
You can be demonstrably correct; if no-one will listen to you, then
you're wrong.
cheers,
Gideon.
--
(((( | ====diog...@freeuk.com.=========================|
o__))))) | - Bringing permed '70s-retro hedgehogs to the =|
__ \'((((( | common people since he got bored one afternoon. =|
Orjan Westin
> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> ... a small number of people with what one might normally call
>> unconventional views but who dominate the forum by sheer
>> ferocity. You probably won't be surprised to hear that I'm not
>> terribly impressed by such tactics, and so I've played a straight
>> bat on that forum for about six months, patiently using logic to
>> deconstruct nonsense and putting a more conventional view forward
>> in its place.
>
> I'm surprised that anyone still talks to you, then ;)
>
> Logic has little or no place on Usenet outside sci.math or comp.* -
Eh? In the recent debate that centered on Richard, a fair number of afpers
proved that they were susceptible to logic.
> there's a certain amount of space for the careful and consistent
> use of rhetoric, and the rest really is just grassroots politicking
> and judging your audience.
Bleak, discouraging, cynical views.
Who are you and what have you done with Gideon?
I mean, you sound like you believe in Mike's insight:
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060124
> You can be demonstrably correct; if no-one will listen to you, then
> you're wrong.
So a tree falling in the forest doesn't make a sound if no-one is there to
hear?
Orjan
--
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
Fiction, Thoughts and Software
http://www.cunobaros.com/
Gideon Hallett
> Gideon Hallett wrote:
>> Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> ... a small number of people with what one might normally call
>>> unconventional views but who dominate the forum by sheer
>>> ferocity. You probably won't be surprised to hear that I'm not
>>> terribly impressed by such tactics, and so I've played a
>>> straight bat on that forum for about six months, patiently using
>>> logic to deconstruct nonsense and putting a more conventional
>>> view forward in its place.
>>
>> I'm surprised that anyone still talks to you, then ;)
>>
>> Logic has little or no place on Usenet outside sci.math or comp.*
>> -
>
> Eh? In the recent debate that centered on Richard, a fair number
> of afpers proved that they were susceptible to logic.
I'd say that they proved susceptible to consistent argument, not
logic; and all too frequently, someone who 'uses logic' merely
states and restates their original argument (with subtle
variations) ad nauseam; until the other parties simply get fed up
with the whole topic.
I'm not going to name names, but I can think of some notable
examples of the above in AFP history.
(Additionally, there is a certain offensiveness in the 'I'm the only
logical kid in the playground!' attitude; it trivialises other
points of view without any reference to their content.)
Debate is, after all, more akin to fencing than programming.
>> there's a certain amount of space for the careful and consistent
>> use of rhetoric, and the rest really is just grassroots
>> politicking and judging your audience.
>
> Bleak, discouraging, cynical views.
Why? We are people, not machines. Of course we respond to persuasion
more than axioms.
It's the way people function in a social grouping. At the risk of
being [R], I would invite you to consider the origin of the word
'polite'.
> Who are you and what have you done with Gideon?
I've been working too hard recently, I guess.
>> You can be demonstrably correct; if no-one will listen to you,
>> then you're wrong.
>
> So a tree falling in the forest doesn't make a sound if no-one is
> there to hear?
It might make a sound; but if no-one cares that it fell, why does it
matter?
Terry Pratchett
<vash...@gmail.com> writes
*When* did this happen? I could believe it of the BBC, but I've just
heard a tape of the end of episode 2 and there's no such comment.
--
Terry Pratchett