[I] Giving up claims

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DinkiPixie

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Jun 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/10/98
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I haven't the foggiest what tag this should have, so please change as
necessary :o]

Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with on
afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?
--
Angela MacKellar
dink...@zetnet.co.uk

Peter Bleackley

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Jun 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/11/98
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In abbeyance, "DinkiPixie" writes:
|> I haven't the foggiest what tag this should have, so please change as
|> necessary :o]
|>
|> Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with on
|> afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?

How about, "I'm sure Terry will have thought of this already, but
just in case, here's a spoiler space..."

Last year, when I had an idea about something that might happen in a
future book, I emailed Terry, and said something like, "I think I've
worked out what a dwarfish coronation chair might be called", and
left it at that. Only when Terry emailed me back, confirming that
he'd thought of it first (I hadn't told him what it was, but what he
told me corresponded with what I'd been thinking about), did I reveal
to afp the existence of the Scone of Stone.

However, there's something I'd really like to see done in a Discworld
book, which Imake a point of never mentioning on afp.

--
~PETE "QUANTUM" BLEACKLEY~
Daleks! Repent of your evil ways, and live in peace as plumbers!
X-Ray Astronomy Group University of Leicester
p...@star.le.ac.uk ~ Website coming soon

DinkiPixie

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Jun 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/11/98
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Peter Bleackley wrote ...
>In abbeyance,

Ah. Reminding me I'm a nun :o] ??


>"DinkiPixie" writes:
>> Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with on
>> afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?
>
>How about, "I'm sure Terry will have thought of this already, but
>just in case, here's a spoiler space..."

Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm really after is a once and for
all statement. I doubt I've come up with anything useful for DW but just
in case I say something generative (and it probably would be unconscious
from me) I don't want to have to backtrack to hand it over, or even have
to think about it beforehand. IYSWIM.
--
Angela MacKellar

Shaun1200

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Jun 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/11/98
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In article <6lmer6$15m$1...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, "DinkiPixie"
<dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes:

>
>I haven't the foggiest what tag this should have, so please change as
>necessary :o]
>

>Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with on
>afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?

>--
>Angela MacKellar
>dink...@zetnet.co.uk
Angela, '

My understanding is that by publishing it in a newgroup or other public forum,
you already have given up any claims on the work. Thats why books and magazines
have all that copyright small print on the inside front covers.

(PS Terry, if you're reading this How about .....An Ankh Morpork Gangster
book..... "Hershebian 12-bolt crossbow" Kelly is a name you could play with)

Shaun "I want to be exploited" Salter
Shau...@aol.com
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist......"

Terry Pratchett

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Jun 11, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/11/98
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In article <6lp8ed$3qr$2...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, DinkiPixie
<dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes

>Peter Bleackley wrote ...
>>In abbeyance,
>
>Ah. Reminding me I'm a nun :o] ??
>>"DinkiPixie" writes:
>>> Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with on
>>> afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?
>>
>>How about, "I'm sure Terry will have thought of this already, but
>>just in case, here's a spoiler space..."
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm really after is a once and for
>all statement. I doubt I've come up with anything useful for DW but just
>in case I say something generative (and it probably would be unconscious
>from me) I don't want to have to backtrack to hand it over, or even have
>to think about it beforehand. IYSWIM.

I ought to be clear what I mean by 'ideas'. People posting 'It'd be
kewl to have a DW novel about newspapers/football/the Millennium
Bug/whatever', well, that's not a problem. Nor is it an idea. It's
just a concept. I can dream up a dozen a minute. But if someone posted
'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
Library, and there's an accident, and he and the Librarian came out 25
years in the past, and the Librarian got locked up in the Patrician's
menagerie as a dangerous animal so he couldn't help them both get back,
and Vimes is stuck in the past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal
who'll undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the Assassin's
Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no money and no
friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.
--
Terry Pratchett

Margaret Tarbet

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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In alt.fan.pratchett on Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:31:27
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
>Library, and there's an accident, and he and the Librarian came out 25
>years in the past, and the Librarian got locked up in the Patrician's
>menagerie as a dangerous animal so he couldn't help them both get back,
>and Vimes is stuck in the past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal
>who'll undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
>history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the Assassin's
>Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no money and no
>friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.

Is that an example or a prediction? :-)))))
---------------------------------------------------------------
Margaret Tarbet / tar...@swaa.com / Cambridge Massachusetts USA
---------------------------------------------------------------
"You can't trust folk songs. They always sneak up on you."
Granny Weatherwax, in _Witches Abroad_

Paul Andinach

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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On 11 Jun 1998, Shaun1200 wrote:

> In article <6lmer6$15m$1...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, "DinkiPixie"

> <dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Is there a nice legal way of saying whatever ideas we come up with
> > on afp may be used in DW (whether or not TP actually saw them)?
>

> My understanding is that by publishing it in a newgroup or other
> public forum, you already have given up any claims on the work.
> Thats why books and magazines have all that copyright small print on
> the inside front covers.

Go to news.announce.newusers and find the Copyright Myths FAQ.

Two of the myths listed therein are "It's not under copyright if it
hasn't got a copyright notice" and "If it's posted on Usenet, it's
automatically in the public domain".

Everything is automatically under the appropriate copyright. It's only
in the public domain if it's accompanied by a notice specifically
saying so.

Paul
--
"...the greater part of my wardrobe is black... it's a sensible
colour. It goes with anything. Well, anything black..."
- Neil Gaiman


r...@greenend.org.uk

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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shau...@aol.com (Shaun1200) writes:

> My understanding is that by publishing it in a newgroup or other
> public forum, you already have given up any claims on the
> work. Thats why books and magazines have all that copyright small
> print on the inside front covers.

IANAL, but:

Copyright exists in all published works, even if you don't put a
copyright notice on them. (Though AIUI if you don't defend your
copyright for a while then a court will not find in your favour if you
later sue someone. Perhaps the copyright notices at the front of
books are related to this.)

I believe there are some countries in the world where this is not
true, and apparently you need to use magic phrases like "All Rights
Reserved" to get protection under copyright law in somce places.
(Almost) nobody bothers doing this for Usenet articles; the IPR value
of most of them is hardly worth the effort.

Generally speaking it seems to be widely assumed that if you post
something to Usenet you've implicitly given permission for it to be
propagated around Usenet (which involves copying), read by all its
reader (which also involves copying), etc. This is comparable to the
assumption that if you write a letter to the editor of a newspaper,
you're giving them permission to publish it.

Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Terry Pratchett wrote:
>
> In article <6lp8ed$3qr$2...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, DinkiPixie
> <dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes

> >Thanks for the suggestion, but what I'm really after is a once and for


> >all statement. I doubt I've come up with anything useful for DW but just
> >in case I say something generative (and it probably would be unconscious
> >from me) I don't want to have to backtrack to hand it over, or even have
> >to think about it beforehand. IYSWIM.
>
> I ought to be clear what I mean by 'ideas'. People posting 'It'd be
> kewl to have a DW novel about newspapers/football/the Millennium
> Bug/whatever', well, that's not a problem. Nor is it an idea. It's
> just a concept. I can dream up a dozen a minute. But if someone posted

> 'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
> Library, and there's an accident, and he and the Librarian came out 25
> years in the past, and the Librarian got locked up in the Patrician's
> menagerie as a dangerous animal so he couldn't help them both get back,
> and Vimes is stuck in the past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal
> who'll undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
> history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the Assassin's
> Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no money and no
> friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.

<makes appropriate soothing sounds>

Aww, you poor writer, Mr. PTerry sir. Getting bombarded by stuff like
that.

Heck, I'm a rank amateur and I remember at the con where I won my
first young writers' contest having someone almost three years older
than me (which to a just recently turned 15 year old is quite a big
amount) come up and ask me to review a manuscript and tell him why I got
first place and he didn't even get an honorable mention.
He rambled at me. He gushed compliments at me. He had a big nose and
probably couldn't have written his way out of a wet paper sack.

I can only imagine what it must be like for you.

<inserts tongue into cheek>

On that note, I've got a great idea for Discwor!d. It's a short
synopsis only a few thousand words !ong. My original version was
written in green crayon and i!!ustrated, but I fee! that scanning it in
to the computer would be out of the question, so I guess I'!! type it
up. I hope you don't mind that my spe!!checker is broken and that
recent!y I don't seem to have the capabi!ity to use the !etter next to
'k' on the keyboard. So, should I post it to the newsgroup or e-mai!
it?

--
Over 48.6% of all Americans read below the national average.

Terry Collins

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera

Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera wrote:

A lot of egotistical drivel it seems. Would you explain this further
because I'd dearly love to have misunderstood it.

Terry makes a general request (which he makes irregularly) that people
don't post stories to AFP to prevent any future use of someone else's idea.
There are good legal reasons for this request, plus some likely personal
satisfaction angles.

Yes, you've won a young writers contest (which seems irrelevant to the
thread), but you seem intent on putting someone else's attempt down and
take his maturity in asking you for guidance as a sign of weakness.

Have I mis-interpreted your point?


>
> Terry Pratchett wrote:
> >
> >
> > I ought to be clear what I mean by 'ideas'. People posting 'It'd be
> > kewl to have a DW novel about newspapers/football/the Millennium
> > Bug/whatever', well, that's not a problem. Nor is it an idea. It's

> friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.

...snipple for space...


>
> <makes appropriate soothing sounds>
>
> Aww, you poor writer, Mr. PTerry sir. Getting bombarded by stuff like
> that.
>
> Heck, I'm a rank amateur and I remember at the con where I won my
> first young writers' contest having someone almost three years older
> than me (which to a just recently turned 15 year old is quite a big
> amount) come up and ask me to review a manuscript and tell him why I got
> first place and he didn't even get an honorable mention.
> He rambled at me. He gushed compliments at me. He had a big nose and
> probably couldn't have written his way out of a wet paper sack.
>
> I can only imagine what it must be like for you.
>
> <inserts tongue into cheek>
>
> On that note, I've got a great idea for Discwor!d. It's a short
> synopsis only a few thousand words !ong. My original version was
> written in green crayon and i!!ustrated, but I fee! that scanning it in
> to the computer would be out of the question, so I guess I'!! type it
> up. I hope you don't mind that my spe!!checker is broken and that
> recent!y I don't seem to have the capabi!ity to use the !etter next to
> 'k' on the keyboard. So, should I post it to the newsgroup or e-mai!
> it?
>
> --
> Over 48.6% of all Americans read below the national average.

--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} WOA Computer Services
email: ter...@zip.net.au <lan/wan, novell, pc's, unix>
www: http://www.zip.com.au/~terryc
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
Voice: (02) 46272186 Fax: (02) 4628 7861
BBS (02) 4628 3722 Fidonet 3:712/840

"People without trees are like fish without clean water"

Gideon Hallett

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:14:59 GMT, Margaret Tarbet
<tar...@swaa.com> was a jolly decent type and shared with us:

>In alt.fan.pratchett on Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:31:27
>Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>

>>'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
>>Library, and there's an accident, and he and the Librarian came out 25
>>years in the past, and the Librarian got locked up in the Patrician's
>>menagerie as a dangerous animal so he couldn't help them both get back,
>>and Vimes is stuck in the past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal
>>who'll undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
>>history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the Assassin's
>>Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no money and no

>>friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.
>

>Is that an example or a prediction? :-)))))

Not since they nicked the ideas retrospectively-in-advance and
called them "Back to the Future" and "Terminator", I believe.

Gideon.

--
(((( | Gideon_...@3Com.com.========================|
o__))))) | - Bringing permed '70s-retro hedgehogs to the =|
__ \'((((( | common people since he got bored one afternoon.=|


Peter Bleackley

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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In explaination, Terry Pratchett writes:

|> I ought to be clear what I mean by 'ideas'. People posting 'It'd be
|> kewl to have a DW novel about newspapers/football/the Millennium
|> Bug/whatever', well, that's not a problem. Nor is it an idea. It's

|> just a concept. I can dream up a dozen a minute. But if someone posted

Well, in that case, it's perfectly safe for me to say the thing I've
been avoiding saying for years. But here's some blank space to build
up suspense anyway.


I'd love to see a Discworld version of Robin Hood.

(Bit of an anti-climax, wasn't it?)

MichelenaRiosa

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:09:07 +1000, Terry Collins <ter...@zip.net.au>
wrote:

>Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera wrote:
>
>A lot of egotistical drivel it seems. Would you explain this further
>because I'd dearly love to have misunderstood it.
>

>Have I mis-interpreted your point?

Fast reply before anything untoward happens....I read it as an attempt
at humourous attempt at sympathy, not really meant to be taken
seriously expect for the anectodal information that such attitudes can
happen in even the youngest of fans....

Just reading Niven's etc "Fallen Angels" so when does Pterry get
trapped on a glacier and we get to loose our jobs rescuing him, btw?

(oh, I give the book a 5 out of ten...readible, but generally candy,
not bread)

Michelena

mri...@visgen.com
Charter member AFP Blame Society
"mea culpa, dammit!"


Gidjabolgo

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Michelena Riosa wrote a post that I've snipped completely.

Mickelina, our honorary swede^WSwede!

Where've you been hiding?

Gidjabolgo, foxed
--
Home at http://hem2.passagen.se/gidjabol/
Mail to gidj...@hem2.passagen.se
A Non-Humerus Sig (tm)


Terry Pratchett

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.980612...@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.
edu.au>, Paul Andinach <pand...@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes

>Two of the myths listed therein are "It's not under copyright if it
>hasn't got a copyright notice" and "If it's posted on Usenet, it's
>automatically in the public domain".

Right. And my problems start is someone says 'Hey, here's a great idea
for Terry...'

Robin Hood? haven't thought of that one for days:-)

As for Vimes-in-the-past...well, the fact that some time travellers
might steal the idea from me and then use it years ago is always a
problem. But good guy and bad guy slugging it out in the past to
save/change the future has a long pedigree in sf, quite apart from BTTF
1,2 and 3, Time Cop, Terminator 1-2, Crime Traveller (and what a great
series that was, eh?) and probably half a dozen others I've forgotten.
I might write it one day, if only see how Vimes gets on and why women
tend to be on Vetinari's side...besides, he's got the Dis-Organizer II
now, with extra had-to-use functions and a front-lit screen (box of
matches not included).
--
Terry Pratchett

Ben

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Gideon Hallett wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:14:59 GMT, Margaret Tarbet
> <tar...@swaa.com> was a jolly decent type and shared with us:
>
> >In alt.fan.pratchett on Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:31:27
> >Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
> >>Library, and there's an accident, and he and the Librarian came out 25
> >>years in the past, and the Librarian got locked up in the Patrician's
> >>menagerie as a dangerous animal so he couldn't help them both get back,
> >>and Vimes is stuck in the past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal
> >>who'll undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
> >>history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the Assassin's
> >>Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no money and no
> >>friends but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*.
> >
> >Is that an example or a prediction? :-)))))
>
> Not since they nicked the ideas retrospectively-in-advance and
> called them "Back to the Future" and "Terminator", I believe.

Sounds like something close to one of the "Planet of the Apes" films (-:

I can imagine a future Discworld where the Librarian is Patrician and the
Watch come through to the future and have to save the world from unclear
physics (-:

But then I'm a bit strange in the head (-:

--Ben
"Live Faust, die Jung"
_____________________________________________________________________________
|I'm sorry, you must be confusing |Email: B...@cs.man.ac.uk, B...@gits.co.uk |
|me with someone who gives a damn.|Homepage: http://www2.cs.man.ac.uk/~argyleb|
|_________________________________|___________________________________________|
| Abbot, Manchester Chapter of the Monks of Cool since MCMXCVI a.d. |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|


r...@greenend.org.uk

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Terry Collins <ter...@zip.net.au> writes:

> A lot of egotistical drivel it seems. Would you explain this further
> because I'd dearly love to have misunderstood it.

I don't think saying you've one a contest of any kind is all that
egotistical; if it turned up in every posting by `Brucianna' then it
would be, but it doesn't.

Hint: her last paragraph was satire.

Dave Stone

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

Terry Collins <ter...@zip.net.au> wrote:

> Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera wrote:
>
> A lot of egotistical drivel it seems. Would you explain this further
> because I'd dearly love to have misunderstood it.

[...]

> Yes, you've won a young writers contest (which seems irrelevant to the
> thread), but you seem intent on putting someone else's attempt down and
> take his maturity in asking you for guidance as a sign of weakness.
>

> Have I mis-interpreted your point?

I think you have.

Brucianna was talking about the quandry in which those with *any* degree
of acknowleged skill and talent find themselves, when suddenly presented
with stuff by those who simply haven't got it.

The mixture between wanting to say precisely what one thinks, and not
wanting to hurt someone else's feelings, the vague worry that things
could turn nasty, the attempt to sound encouraging whilst not actually
*lying* and so forth ... no matter what the scale on which you're
operating, these situations have a special horror all of their own.

--
Take care. Have fun. Bring your own banjo.
http://www.sgloomi.demon.co.uk

Dave Stone

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera <bruc...@iname.com> wrote:

> Over 48.6% of all Americans read below the national average.

Um ... depending upon what you mean by "average", isn't that rather the
point?

Or did I just overstate a gag you already meant? Sorry.

DinkiPixie

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

Terry Pratchett wrote :
<snip>

>Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?)

Yes! I really liked seeing things happen again that had happened before
without any real significance - like the muffled voices in the lift.
Can't remember any more, but it was fun, and boo sucks to the critics
who couldn't enjoy themselves in case they didn't seem clever. (Glad I
got that out of my system).

>why women tend to be on Vetinari's side

Because he's intelligent and cool and sexy?

>...besides, he's got the Dis-Organizer II now, with extra had-to-use
> functions and a front-lit screen (box of matches not included).

Tee Hee. Imps on strike?
--
Angela MacKellar

Leighton Pritchard

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

Terry Pratchett wrote:

> Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?)

No.


(I believe the timing to be worth the OWF.)

--
Discard inhibitions to reply
--
Leighton:
I don't speak for the university. It doesn't speak for me. Unless I'm
particularly incoherent.

LNR

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Leighton Pritchard <bap9...@inhibitions.strath.ac.uk> wrote:
>(I believe the timing to be worth the OWF.)

Which is of course why you ruined it by adding this line?

If an OLF or even an OWF is worth making at all don't apologise for it
'cos you're only wasting more bandwidth and spoiling your own gag.

--
"bruised up and roughed, all locked up in cuffs lnr
you wear your guilt like a badge, but money's no object, @
and when she loves it it's better than any you've had, lspace.
and that's so sad" Preacher Boy: hello, lover org

FunIt

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
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Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera schrieb in Nachricht
<3580C32B...@iname.com>...

>I hope you don't mind that my spe!!checker is broken and that
>recent!y I don't seem to have the capabi!ity to use the !etter next
>to 'k' on the keyboard. So, should I post it to the newsgroup or

>e-mai! it? ^^^^


Shouldn't that be "shou!d"? <g, d & r>

Bye
Beate

--
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Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

MichelenaRiosa wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:09:07 +1000, Terry Collins <ter...@zip.net.au>

> wrote:
>
> >Brucianna di Rosenkavaliera wrote:
> >
> >A lot of egotistical drivel it seems. Would you explain this further
> >because I'd dearly love to have misunderstood it.
> >
>
> >Have I mis-interpreted your point?
>
> Fast reply before anything untoward happens....I read it as an attempt
> at humourous attempt at sympathy, not really meant to be taken
> seriously expect for the anectodal information that such attitudes can
> happen in even the youngest of fans....

I figured it would be safer to repy to him via e-mail.

Thus, I did and hopefully no arguments sha surface on the 'froup.

--

Iwan Lamble

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Jun 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/12/98
to

In article <6lrchr$d0u$2...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, DinkiPixie
<dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes
>Terry Pratchett wrote :
><snip>

>>Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?)
>
>Yes! I really liked seeing things happen again that had happened before
>without any real significance - like the muffled voices in the lift.
>Can't remember any more, but it was fun, and boo sucks to the critics
>who couldn't enjoy themselves in case they didn't seem clever. (Glad I
>got that out of my system).

Here's another vote for the 'Crime Traveller was good' camp.

It wasn't superb TV, but little is these days. It was just something fun
you could sit down and watch without worrying too much about the plot
and enjoying the special effects and stuff. Towards the end it really
got the hang of not taking itself seriously (IMHO). Sort of
Hercules/Xena meets Bugs. And it was great fun to watch with someone
else around because you could try to guess what was going to happen from
the first scene and there were plenty of good plot holes to talk about
and make up excuses for.

Okay, so Bugs had better effects, plot holes and impossible devices to
laugh about and Hercules/Xena have got the hang of taking the piss out
of themselves better but Crime Traveller was certainly getting there.

(Sorry for getting ranty as well, but Crime Traveller has been getting
too much bad press, IMHO. Especially from SFX [although they obviously
have no taste - I mean, they raved about the dreadful 'Invasion
Earth' :-) ])

(I did miss the first episode, though. Prehaps that was so bad that it
ruined the rest of the series?)

--
...............................Iwan Lamble..............................
Pratchett Extras, 'Jingo' and 'The Last Continent' Annotations at:
http://www.lamble.demon.co.uk/books/disc/annotat.htm
Discworld Screensavers - http://www.lamble.demon.co.uk/disc/discsave.htm

Paul Andinach

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Gideon Hallett wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:14:59 GMT, Margaret Tarbet
> <tar...@swaa.com> was a jolly decent type and shared with us:
>
> > In alt.fan.pratchett on Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:31:27
> > Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > 'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into
> > > the UU Library, and there's an accident, and he and the
> > > Librarian came out 25 years in the past, and the Librarian got
> > > locked up in the Patrician's menagerie as a dangerous animal so
> > > he couldn't help them both get back, and Vimes is stuck in the
> > > past and still has hunt the dangerous criminal who'll
> > > undoubtedly be contacting his own younger self and changing
> > > history, and Vetinari at that time is still a student at the
> > > Assassin's Guild and Nobby is a street urchin, and Vimes has no
> > > money and no friends but he realises that he can---'
> >

> >Is that an example or a prediction? :-)))))
>
> Not since they nicked the ideas retrospectively-in-advance and
> called them "Back to the Future" and "Terminator", I believe.

Sounds more like Back To The Future Part Two to me.
And where does The Terminator come into it?

Paul Andinach

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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On 12 Jun 1998, Peter Bleackley wrote:

> I'd love to see a Discworld version of Robin Hood.

Considering what Discworld bandits are usually like, is there room for
anybody like Robin Hood?

> (Bit of an anti-climax, wasn't it?)

Yes. You could at least have filled the blank bit with humorous
comments like "Spoiler space", "More spoiler space", "Yep, you guessed
it - spoiler space", "A blank bit that isn't spoiler space", "All
right, I admit it - it was spoiler space",...

lipk...@i-2000.com

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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Terry Pratchett wrote:
>
> Right. And my problems start is someone says 'Hey, here's a great idea
> for Terry...'
>
> Robin Hood? haven't thought of that one for days:-)
>
> As for Vimes-in-the-past...well, the fact that some time travellers
> might steal the idea from me and then use it years ago is always a
> problem. But good guy and bad guy slugging it out in the past to
> save/change the future has a long pedigree in sf, quite apart from BTTF
> 1,2 and 3, Time Cop, Terminator 1-2, Crime Traveller (and what a great
> series that was, eh?) and probably half a dozen others I've forgotten.
> I might write it one day, if only see how Vimes gets on and why women
> tend to be on Vetinari's side...besides, he's got the Dis-Organizer II

> now, with extra had-to-use functions and a front-lit screen (box of
> matches not included).
> --
> Terry Pratchett


This reminds me of my innocent newbie lurker days. The first Discworld
game had just come out, and Pterry posted a message asking if anyone had
noticed a certain cameo appearance at the end of the game. I replied by
e-mail and, at the end of my note, happened to mention that it was a
pity that the Disc had been created by spontaneous divine manufacture,
since it would have made an interesting story ("Unclear Evolution"?) to
learn about the first symbiotic relationship between a small turtle,
four shrew-like proto-mammals, and a leaf with a bit of dirt on it. His
response, now tragically lost in a hard drive crash, was something along
the lines of "I wish I'd thought of that."

I wondered for months whether I had screwed up and ruined a perfectly
good concept by suggesting it in the first place.


-DL

Terry Collins

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
to

Not from me. You provided the background that was missing to put it in the
fuller picture. Repeated requests are harrassment, I took it as one
request. Not being a con goer, I know nothing of the atmosphere and had a
different vision.

In any field, occasional requests are one thing, a multitude is an entirely
different thing. Saying No is a technique you have to develop early.

Mr JRV. Green

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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Iwan Lamble <iw...@lamble.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<mE1ONPA9...@lamble.demon.co.uk>...


> In article <6lrchr$d0u$2...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, DinkiPixie
> <dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes
> >Terry Pratchett wrote :
> ><snip>

> >>Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?)
> >

> >Yes! I really liked seeing things happen again that had happened before
> >without any real significance - like the muffled voices in the lift.
> >Can't remember any more, but it was fun, and boo sucks to the critics
> >who couldn't enjoy themselves in case they didn't seem clever. (Glad I
> >got that out of my system).
>
> Here's another vote for the 'Crime Traveller was good' camp.
>

And another, I feel it was a shame they finished it just as they were
beginning to get the hang of it.

There have been worse series made (Bugs[1] for example)

--
RGreen

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
It's not my fault I'm like this. I blame the
Manufacturer. "OI GOD! I wish to register
a complaint!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

[1] Although the first[2] series was OK
[2] It used up all of there good ideas.

Terry Pratchett

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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In article <mE1ONPA9...@lamble.demon.co.uk>, Iwan Lamble
<iw...@lamble.demon.co.uk> writes

>In article <6lrchr$d0u$2...@roch.zetnet.co.uk>, DinkiPixie
><dink...@spamnet.co.uk> writes
>>Terry Pratchett wrote :
>><snip>
>>>Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?)
>
[snip]

>Here's another vote for the 'Crime Traveller was good' camp.
>

>It wasn't superb TV, but little is these days. It was just something fun

Er...irony doesn't print well, sorry.

I saw the first episode of Crime Traveller and thought it was badly
written, badly plotted craparoonie, with plot holes galore that were
clearly ignored because, hey, this is just that dumb sci-fi stuff,
right? I saw enough of later episodes to confirm my opinion.
--
Terry Pratchett

Matthewd

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<RG8v3OAF1jg1Ew$g...@unseen.demon.co.uk>...

Aha... <taps side of nose with index finger> readers should have noticed
that you followed your original statement with an "eh" in the way that
stereotypically marks the average Canadian. Canadians, though part of the
Empire (historically in the very least), are notorious for not having seen
Crime Traveller!
I base this axiom on the fact that no Canadian has ever mentioned it to
me.[1] Therefore, you were ironically comparing the quality of the series
to the knowledge of existence of the series by the average Canadian...
which is, of course, Zero. I can't believe people didn't see this. [2]

Matthew
--
Glod Bless us. Maul everyone.

[1] Aside from, of course, all the other things that Canadians have never
mentioned to me(!)
[2] Bwahahahahaha

Mattheq

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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In article <dG6sXDAf...@unseen.demon.co.uk>, Terry Pratchett
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> But if someone posted

> 'Hey, supposing the Watch were pursuing a suspect who'd got into the UU
> Library, and there's an accident, and...

<snip>

> ...but he realises that he can---' No. That'd be a *problem*

Actually, it'd be more of a porblem if he hadn't posted it, as you then
might end up actually /writing/ something like that.

Here's a thought - does this mean that if we are unscrupulous people we
could prevent ides we don't want to emerge into books doing so by
mentioning them on afp? Not that I would, of course.

Mattheq

--
"And then, one Thursday nearly two thousand years after one man had been
nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for
a change..." http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/9079/ Sig V 3.5
Afpurity 59% / Frist Thrid of the Mark / Occasional Omnipotent Supreme Being

Mattheq

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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In article <RG8v3OAF1jg1Ew$g...@unseen.demon.co.uk>, Terry Pratchett

<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I saw the first episode of Crime Traveller and thought it was badly
> written, badly plotted craparoonie, with plot holes galore that were
> clearly ignored because, hey, this is just that dumb sci-fi stuff,
> right? I saw enough of later episodes to confirm my opinion.

Not to mention the effect of "The BBC are making a time travel SF series and
it's /not/ Doctor Who."

Adrian Ogden

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Jun 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/13/98
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Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> writes:


>I saw the first episode of Crime Traveller and thought it was badly
>written, badly plotted craparoonie, with plot holes galore that were
>clearly ignored because, hey, this is just that dumb sci-fi stuff,
>right? I saw enough of later episodes to confirm my opinion.

>--
>Terry Pratchett

They ask us to suspend our disbelief and accept that time travel
is possible, then they make it work in ways which were completely
internally inconsistent. Then they had the gall to say, "It's not
really SF, it's a detective story with a twist."

Yet time travel was the only gimmick they had so they had to make
it the central point. Therefore every crime had to be completely
unsolvable by any other means, so such things as "motive" had to
be completely glossed over, which reduced all the criminals to
cardboard cutouts.

And all the other cops had to be equally uninteresting, otherwise
they might have had the intelligence to solve the crime themselves,
or to spot some of the more obvious plotholes when the two leads
did. Honestly, the plotholes were the only thing that made it worth
watching. And only then if you needed somewhere to park your truck...

No, I didn't like it either.

<\rant>

<< Adrian Ogden -- "Sic Biscuitus Disintegrat" -- A.N....@reading.ac.uk >>

"You may already have won a lifetime's supply of
oxygen, or even a complete fortnight in January!"

Shaun1200

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Jun 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/14/98
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In article <358134...@inhibitions.strath.ac.uk>, Leighton Pritchard
<bap9...@inhibitions.strath.ac.uk> writes:

>Terry Pratchett wrote:
>> Crime Traveller (and what a great series that was, eh?) *

>No.


>
>(I believe the timing to be worth the OWF.)

The secret to all humor
is........................................................................
...............timing.

*sarcasm?..............or is it?

Shaun "It's da wey I tellum" Salter


Shau...@aol.com
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist......"

Paul Andinach

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Jun 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM6/14/98