I'm new to this newsgroup; I've been searching the Net hoping I'd find out
how to pronounce `Vimes' correctly, just to make sure I do it right. Guess
what? I didn't find anything :-)
Perhaps it's so trivial and thus not worth mentioning. But please, just make
me sure of it.
PS. Oh and yes, I'm not British, American or Aussie by any means.
PS.2 I reckon you might also be so kind to provide me proper sound of the
word `Klatch' or 'Klatchian'.
regards
James
Should rhyme with Times, I think
--
How can I meet Kylie Minogue?
The only ways I've ever heard are:
Vimes: To rhyme with "Times"
Klatch: like "Clutch", but with the "a" sound from "hat"
Klatchian: as above, but with "ian" (EE-UN) on the end
--
Kieran Sanders
I suggest buying a copy of one of the audiobooks - best way i think
:-)
Brian.
--
Just address him with "Sir, yes Sir!"
> Guess what? I didn't find anything :-)
> Perhaps it's so trivial and thus not worth mentioning. But please,
> just make me sure of it.
>
> PS. Oh and yes, I'm not British, American or Aussie by any means.
A hint then: Try to find words with mostly the same letters, and see if
you recognize how any of them are pronounced. In the case of Vimes,
there's at least chimes, crimes, dimes, limes, primes and times which
all rhyme (and "regimes" which doesn't). Choose the most common
pronunciation and go with that.
> PS.2 I reckon you might also be so kind to provide me proper sound of
> the word `Klatch' or 'Klatchian'.
Using the same system, there's batch, hatch, latch, match, patch,
scratch, snatch and thatch which all rhyme (and "watch" which doesn't).
Other Discworld words can be harder to guess. "Agatean", "Aniger",
"Llamedos", "Imp y Celyn"[1], "Selachii" and "Vassenego", for example.
[1]: I tend to think it should be pronounced Kelyn, unless you're from
Boston.
Regards,
--
*Art
>maverick <scor...@epf.pl> wrote:
>> Hi there!
>>
>> I'm new to this newsgroup; I've been searching the Net hoping I'd
>> find out how to pronounce `Vimes' correctly, just to make sure I do
>> it right.
>
>Just address him with "Sir, yes Sir!"
>
>> Guess what? I didn't find anything :-)
>> Perhaps it's so trivial and thus not worth mentioning. But please,
>> just make me sure of it.
>>
>> PS. Oh and yes, I'm not British, American or Aussie by any means.
>
>A hint then: Try to find words with mostly the same letters, and see if
>you recognize how any of them are pronounced.
Yeah...like label and lapel, bough and tough, and many
others I cant think of simply because I'd like to...that
advice is quite often not very useful in english.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html
Yeah... I was thinking of the through/though/tough/thought/thou/... too.
This is just counterphonetic spelling.
Fluxen
--
Dean C. Strik Eindhoven University of Technology
C.S...@tue.nl - de...@stack.nl -- http://www.ipnet6.org/
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli
James
[snip]
> Oh Yeah How about Ptraci....
>
[...pronunciation...]
>
The "P" in Ptraci is silent.
Like the "P" in canal...
[1] Please don't.
--
Brian Howlett - From and Reply-To both valid, but email to From deleted unseen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heart of gold, nerves of steel, knob of butter...
Hope that helps
Vinny
Ptraci is really Tracy - that took me till about the third reading to
see.
--
@lec ©awley
http://www.livejournal.com/~randombler
Vinny
It is more useful if you don't snip away the *rest* of my advice from
the same paragraph:
>> Choose the most common pronunciation and go with that.
While it isn't /guaranteed/ to be correct, it has a fairly high chance
of being correct, since the exceptions tend to be just that --
exceptions.
--
*Art
Yes, that would help much provided I'd read Feet of Clay in English. It was
published in my national language and apparently I missed that pun. I
should've noticed the similarity in pronunciation anyway...
James
No, I didn't write that. Please take a few moments to look at how other
people quote and answer, and compare it to what you do.
--
*Art
Should be "plough" instead of "thou" to maintain the full "ough" theme.
> This is just counterphonetic spelling.
The lifeboat that's kept at Torquay
Is intended to float on the suay;
The crew and the coxswain
Are sturdy as oxswain,
And as smart and as brave as can buay.
HTH, HAND... ;)
My news-server didn't have the attachment it seems like you intended to
add.
This is a Good Thing (TM). Hopefully it didn't get past your NNTP
posting
host, or else there are now unauthorised copies of (what I suspect was
at
least part of) the ISIS Pyramids recording floating around the 'Net.
Just friendly advice. Hope you take this in the manner intended.
(Originally sent this by mail, but after getting the bounce from
j...@home.net address I realised I didn't know where at adelphia.net your
actual mailbox is...)
[1] As Brian said, not something we do on AFP. It's local convention to
reply below either the whole post or (ideally) immediately after any
individual points you don't otherwise snip.
> On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:18:38 +0100, Alec Cawley <al...@spamspam.co.uk>
> wrote:
> I would kindly and calmly like to dissagree with you as I am not
> looking for a fight here
> Terence David John Pratchett
> known to some fans as Pterry – following the convention he used in his
> book Pyramids where characters were given names such as Ptraci and
> Pteppic
> What would be the joke if you wouldnt even say Pah Trachi
>
> And when In Doubt I go to the audio book of Nigel Planer
> Ptepic is Pronounced Teppic with a silent P But Ptraci was pronounce
> Pah Trachi
>
If knowing how Discworld proper names are _really_ pronounced in the
author's mind is important to a.f.p. readers, I would just sound a note of
caution about the audio books (both Isis and Transworld), as most of the
readers do not check pronunciations before recording.
StephenB
You are on my shit list right now.
I got 45 copies of something with 490K (each) from you.
If I had dial-up right now, and had to pay to down load
all of those, I would be feeling pretty darned homicidal.
However, while I don't feel homicidal (exactly), I can't
be having with that.
April.
This is unfortunately universally true, and one of the main reasons I
stopped using my sponsored audible.com account, and have eradicated all
traces of audio books I've had. I still wince when I play "Return To
the Centre of the Earth", and hear Patrick Stewart mangle
"Snæfellsjökul" into "sneffles yockel".
Regards,
--
*Art
>I got 45 copies of something with 490K (each) from you.
>If I had dial-up right now, and had to pay to down load
>all of those, I would be feeling pretty darned homicidal.
Actually, they weren't 45 copies, but 45 different things. :)
But yes, what he did was wrong for several reasons. First of all
there's the copyright issue. Just because the mp3 was already
circulating on the internet doesn't mean it's any less illegal to post
it again. Secondly, this is not a binary newsgroup so even if it had
been legal it still shouldn't have been posted here.
--
Watashi wa neko desu nyo.
> "Dean Strik" <de...@stack.nl> wrote:
>> In <d5c6f15kusga67io8...@4ax.com>, Graycat wrote:
>> > Yeah...like label and lapel, bough and tough, and many
>> > others I cant think of simply because I'd like to...that
>> > advice is quite often not very useful in english.
>>
>> Yeah... I was thinking of the through/though/tough/thought/thou/...
> too.
>
> Should be "plough" instead of "thou" to maintain the full "ough" theme
rough/cough/hiccough/lough
See "OUGH" by Charles Battell Loomis and other delights brought together at
http://listserv.uts.edu.au/archives/sys-func/Week-of-Mon-20040329/002744.html
Raymond Kurzweil, inventor of the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the Blind,
said that his research turned up more than 2,000 spelling rules for English
(i before e, and such like), and more than 2,000 exceptions like the ones
being cited in this thread, or at the link above.
>> This is just counterphonetic spelling.
>
> The lifeboat that's kept at Torquay
> Is intended to float on the suay;
> The crew and the coxswain
> Are sturdy as oxswain,
> And as smart and as brave as can buay.
>
> HTH, HAND... ;)
He wound the bandage around the wound.
and other examples that I passed on to the creators of the Children of the
Code TV show.
http:www.childrenofthecode.org/cotcintro.htm
Warning: The producers took a totally uncritical view of the comments made
to them in interviews. The shows are riddled with errors of fact.
http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sources/monty.python.faq.html
Q: What is the correct pronunciation of the name "Raymond Luxury Yacht"?
A: The name is pronounced "Throatwarbler Mangrove".
Oh, quite. That's just appalling. (Thinks: I'm probably not
convincing him.)
Since, however, _Pyramids_ is surely translated from the original
pictograms, pronunciation of names is bound to be a bit ankh - giant
eye - owl. ;-)
> Ptraci is really Tracy - that took me till about the third reading to
> see.
It's astonishing how different the category "Blindingly Obvious" can
be for different people, isn't it? :-)
Adrian.
Wurl, yeahbutt...
For those of us who *don't* say the funny spellings in their heads when
they read, I wonder how many people missed "Djelibeybi" like wot I did?
- MEG
Or worse, skimmed over it on the first reading and read it as "Delhi-belly"
all through the book. (Yes, I really did)
Diane L.
> Oh! And how many times have I heard mis-pronunciations of "Angua", and
> even mis-spellings on con badges etc .... makes me want to rip out
> their jugulars....
Speaking of Angua, what it the proper pronunciation?
Guess it would be very useful if someone provided The Most Tricky yet Common
Names from Discworld for People Who Can't Handle Perfect English
Pronunciation FAQ Alike.
James
>>>Ptraci is really Tracy - that took me till about the third reading to
>>>see.
>>
>>It's astonishing how different the category "Blindingly Obvious" can
>>be for different people, isn't it? :-)
>
> For those of us who *don't* say the funny spellings in their heads when
> they read, I wonder how many people missed "Djelibeybi" like wot I did?
I think I'm the reverse - I got those two automatically, but didn't spot
the misspelling in Maskerade. (well, I noticed that it wasn't spelt
right, but I didn't see any particular significance to this).
--
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to
do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Simon Waldman, UK email: swal...@firecloud.org.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------
Even for those of us who do, but aren't Limeys, it's not all that
obvious. I read Ptraci as an Italianate name at first, with the P
almost, but not quite, silent. Even if I'd read it as Tracy, the
significance of that name would've escaped me.
Richard
One hopes you didn't miss, "We're more popular than cheeses."
-Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com
--
Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/
The World's Best Daily News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/
Rock onstage with JJ Cale and E. Clapton: http://tinyurl.com/3modw
> cyba wrote:
>
>> Or, (like me) missed "you look a bit elvish to me" in Soul Music for
>> about 4 years - but in mitigation I plead that I did spot the chip shop
>> reference at the end.....
>
> One hopes you didn't miss, "We're more popular than cheeses."
That's not actually in the book, just the cartoon.
--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc/
Do not read this sig, by order.
...
>
> Wurl, yeahbutt...
>
> For those of us who *don't* say the funny spellings in
> their heads when they read, I wonder how many people missed
> "Djelibeybi" like wot I did?
>
<waves> 'tleast one, me </waves>
--
Ciao
Thomas =:-)
<To sig or not to sig, that is the question?>
I must admit that I fail to see any pun embedded in the name "Angua",
like there obviously are for "elvish" and "Djelibebi".
Sometimes punny names are funny. Sometimes the author goes just too
far, like Jasper Fforde with "Schitt-Hawse" and "Alf Wiedersen" (which
was already overused as a joke 60 years ago, according to my parents).
The use of a pun shouldn't be *too* obvious or trite.
Djelibebi is to me stretching it, but ok, since not everyone got it, I
guess it isn't all that good[1].
Angua, on the other paw, has me stumped, but perhaps you weren't talking
about puns anymore?
[1]: A bad pun is a good pun, and vice versa.
Regards,
--
*Art
> Raymond Kurzweil, inventor of the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the Blind,
> said that his research turned up more than 2,000 spelling rules for English
> (i before e, and such like), and more than 2,000 exceptions like the ones
> being cited in this thread, or at the link above.
That's a dumb way to do statistics, though. Much better to measure the
percentage of words that you can spell/pronounce correctly given a
certain set of rules, rather than comparing the number of rules and
exceptions.
Adrian.
> Sometimes punny names are funny. Sometimes the author goes just too
> far, like Jasper Fforde with "Schitt-Hawse" and "Alf Wiedersen" (which
> was already overused as a joke 60 years ago, according to my parents).
> The use of a pun shouldn't be *too* obvious or trite.
Alf Wiedersen works, IMO, because the *point* of it, in the context of the
novel, is to be an obvious pun.
Not if you know the original and much overused joke[1]. Plus, most
readers would expect the author to be *original*.
[1]: Condensed version: Did you the name of this German who knocked
you up? Of course! He said "Alf Wiedersen" when he left.
Regards,
--
*Art
> Edward Cherlin wrote:
>
>> Raymond Kurzweil, inventor of the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the Blind,
>> said that his research turned up more than 2,000 spelling rules for
>> English (i before e, and such like), and more than 2,000 exceptions like
>> the ones being cited in this thread, or at the link above.
>
> That's a dumb way to do statistics, though.
We're not doing statistics. We're talking about how to program a
text-to-speech engine, or how to teach/learn spelling. The 2,000+
exceptions cannot be done by rule, but must be looked up in a table
(programming) or memorized individually (reading and writing).
> Much better to measure the
> percentage of words that you can spell/pronounce correctly
There is no such thing as "the percentage of words". There is no official
list of words, and cannot be. Print dictionaries vary from a few tens of
thousands of entries to several hundred thousand entries, but computerized
text corpora reveal millions of lexical items.
> given a
> certain set of rules, rather than comparing the number of rules and
> exceptions.
We're not comparing the numbers. We're combining the numbers for two
different categories. Both the set of rules and the set of exceptions must
be handled correctly.
> Adrian.
Most people in the thread were not talking about text-to-speech
engines, but about how useful English pronunciation rules are (i.e.
rules that tell you how to pronounce a word given that you know how to
spell it).
> > Much better to measure the
> > percentage of words that you can spell/pronounce correctly
>
> There is no such thing as "the percentage of words". There is no official
> list of words, and cannot be.
Ambiguity is a feature, not a bug. Rigorous definitions have their
place, but outside of that place they are superfluous and often red
herrings. You don't _need_ an official list. In fact, you'd get more
meaningful results by giving each word a bias based on how common it
is.
The usefulness of the spelling/pronunciation rules a person is taught
can be measured by what percentage of the words they are likely to
encounter can be spelt/pronounced correctly by following those rules.
I'm not saying that's a perfect way to measure it (after all, there is
usually no such thing as perfection) but it's an *immensely* superior
way of measuring it compared to counting the number of rules and
exceptions you'd need in order to achieve near-100% accuracy.
Adrian.
<raises sheepish paw>
Me miss.
Of course that was before I started reading the books aloud to my
husband - I wouldn't miss it if I read the book for the first time
now....
--
Carol
"How fleeting are all human passions when compared to the massive
continuity of ducks." - Dorothy L. Sayers, _Gaudy Night_
Huh, I got that one no problem, admittedly after reading "Children of
the Djel"[1] but "Hersheba" went whoosh.
[1] It just djelled...IGMC
--
Large Dave
Recently converted to Thunderbird and Firefox.
> Carol Hague wrote:
> > MEG <nospam_...@djelibeybi.idps.co.uk> wrote:
> >
[snip]
> >>For those of us who *don't* say the funny spellings in their heads when
> >>they read, I wonder how many people missed "Djelibeybi" like wot I did?
> >
> > <raises sheepish paw>
> >
> > Me miss.
>
> Huh, I got that one no problem, admittedly after reading "Children of
> the Djel"[1] but "Hersheba" went whoosh.
>
> [1] It just djelled...IGMC
>
Somehow, I sussed onto the pune involved with "Djelibeybi", but "Hersheba"
went past me, too, like a Douglas Adams deadline. I kept pronouncing it
"her-SHE-ba", which I now know is wrong. What makes this odd is that I'm a
dumb Yank who was raised on the precept that "Hershey's" is genuine
chocolate.
--
"Who reads, learns, lives the Ferret Way becomes keeper
of light, ennobling outer worlds from one within."
- a prophecy from the Ancients
... puns 'n names
> ... I'm a dumb Yank who was raised on the precept that
> "Hershey's" is genuine chocolate.
Wow. You pour soul. We should get the whole of the US before
the international court, that is cruel and unusual punishment
on a scale the world hasn't seen yet. No wonder the US opted
out of the court.
<offers some virtual albeit real chocolate [1]>
[1] With a guaranteed minimum of 75%
--
Ciao
Thomas =:-)
<If god is omnipotent, why create monday to friday?>
> Paul E. Jamison posted:
>
> ... puns 'n names
>
> > ... I'm a dumb Yank who was raised on the precept that
> > "Hershey's" is genuine chocolate.
>
> Wow. You pour soul. We should get the whole of the US before
> the international court, that is cruel and unusual punishment
> on a scale the world hasn't seen yet. No wonder the US opted
> out of the court.
And here I thought that it was bcause the current regime in the States
consisted of a bunch of thugs. Shows how much I know about politics.
>
> <offers some virtual albeit real chocolate [1]>
>
> [1] With a guaranteed minimum of 75%
Thank you kindly.
This has got me to wondering. I know Hershey, Pennsylvania, is *very*
obsessed with chocolate. I wonder if it's a crime to utter certain brand
names within the city limits, such as, say, Godiva and Ghirardelli's.
Paul
...
>
> This has got me to wondering. I know Hershey, Pennsylvania,
> is *very* obsessed with chocolate. I wonder if it's a crime
> to utter certain brand names within the city limits, such
> as, say, Godiva and Ghirardelli's.
Even Lind or Suchard will get you deported ...
--
Ciao
Thomas =:-)
<sometimes RL is such a drag>
Now I want to go there and drraw violet cows on the pavements and
see what happens.
~Anke
Violent cows will appear.
> ~Anke
Schobi
--
Spam...@gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org
"Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving"
Terry Pratchett
I've never seen a . . .
Oh, never mind.
>Anke wrote:
>
>> Thomas Zahr wrote:
>>
>>>Paul E. Jamison posted:
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>This has got me to wondering. I know Hershey, Pennsylvania,
>>>>is *very* obsessed with chocolate. I wonder if it's a crime
>>>>to utter certain brand names within the city limits, such
>>>>as, say, Godiva and Ghirardelli's.
>>>
>>>Even Lind or Suchard will get you deported ...
>>>
>>
>>
>> Now I want to go there and drraw violet cows on the pavements and
>> see what happens.
>
>I've never seen a . . .
>
>Oh, never mind.
I never hope to....
Nah, buggrit, I can't be hedgehogged
--
How can I meet Kylie Minogue?
I'm also hoping...
Eh, whatever.
>>>For those of us who *don't* say the funny spellings in their heads when
>>>they read, I wonder how many people missed "Djelibeybi" like wot I did?
>>
>> <raises sheepish paw>
>> Me miss.
>
> Huh, I got that one no problem, admittedly after reading "Children of the
> Djel"[1] but "Hersheba" went whoosh.
I found "Djelibeybi" extremely obvious and liked it a lot, but I live
in a country where there's no such thing as Hershey. :-)
Adrian.
I read Ptraci as pTrah-si, so not very similiar to
Tracy...names that aren't obviously real (or real words,
like Carrot) tend to get pronounced swedishly in my head.
--
Elin
The Tale of Westala and Villtin
http://tale.cunobaros.com/
The Oswalds DW casting award - Vote Now!
http://www.student.lu.se/~his02ero/Oswald/index.html