[R] Potter Film/Pterry crossovers? (HP Spoilers)
Mark Constable
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I know the whole crossover thing has probably been done to death, but I've
just come back from the Harry Potter movie (which I thoroughly enjoyed)
wondering about a few touches which reminded me of Pterry - I make no
comment on their relative tenuosity....
Spell books that have to be chained to library shelves, that scream when
opened;
A centaur in a forest not entirely unadjacent to a possible Lancre landscape
called (surely not) Verence (maybe, it could equally have been Firenze or
similar);
An incredibly ferocious beast with a comedy sissy name (although this made
me think of South Park rather than Binky first off);
A small dragon for pet purposes;
L-space staircases;
Granny Weatherwax facsimile - The wonderful Dame Maggie Smith
Hogwart's realisation vs UU - Same education authority?
No doubt these'll all be in the book, which I should have finished by the
end of the week. On the basis of the general reaction to the film though,
this thing could be bigger than James Bond...
M
Karen
<ma...@constable19.fsnet.co.uk> writes
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>I know the whole crossover thing has probably been done to death, but I've
>just come back from the Harry Potter movie (which I thoroughly enjoyed)
I went with a clutch of children who were utterly transfixed and loved
every minute of it. And two and a half hours is along time for them to
be transfixed.
Its enjoyable enough although its Columbus and not Gilliam. The set
pieces are fun, and its pretty faithful to the book as far as I can
remember. Not a lot of character development but then there isn't too
much of that in the book either - mostly events focussed. And the adult
actors were mostly playing their most famous parts in extended cameos.
Alan Rickman makes a lovely Snape :}
>wondering about a few touches which reminded me of Pterry - I make no
>comment on their relative tenuosity....
>
>Spell books that have to be chained to library shelves, that scream when
>opened;
>
>A centaur in a forest not entirely unadjacent to a possible Lancre landscape
>called (surely not) Verence (maybe, it could equally have been Firenze or
>similar);
>
>An incredibly ferocious beast with a comedy sissy name (although this made
>me think of South Park rather than Binky first off);
>
>A small dragon for pet purposes;
>
>L-space staircases;
>
>Granny Weatherwax facsimile - The wonderful Dame Maggie Smith
>
>Hogwart's realisation vs UU - Same education authority?
>
thing is with all these that whilst one may remind you of the others,
they actually are recurrent ideas and themes in stories old and modern.
Granny is an archetype, as is the familiar and the school of wizardry. I
could list a number of books for each of these. In fact mostly I'd
commend you to read Dianna Wynne Jones' 'Tough Guide to Fantasy Land' :}
What makes them special in each story is *how* they are used and
interpreted. Granny is an archetype but is also uniquely 'Granny' and
fulfils the role in a slightly different way to other interpretations.
>No doubt these'll all be in the book, which I should have finished by the
>end of the week. On the basis of the general reaction to the film though,
>this thing could be bigger than James Bond...
Oh I'm sure it will be a huge success. And its a lot of fun. I'd say
its worth a visit even for the Potter sceptics.
ttfn,
--
Karen/hypatia Ka...@lspace.org
** AFP will be 10 years old in 2002 **
Want to come to a world wide party?
http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/afparty/
Andrew Wilson
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> No doubt these'll all be in the book, which I should have finished by the
> end of the week. On the basis of the general reaction to the film though,
> this thing could be bigger than James Bond...
I saw it on Saturday night and thought it was excellent. The crowd I
was with had a mixed reaction to it. Everyone who'd read the book
loved it, those who hadn't didn't.
cheers
Andrew
Terry Pratchett
writes
>What's the rational behind tons of people trying to find all the tiny
>nit picks where someone might have borrowed an idea from Pterry first?
Sorry? Don't you mean "What's the rational behind tons of people
dissecting every new DW book to the point where 'it kind of reminds me
of a scene I saw in a movie but I can't remember what is was' is
considered worthy of posting?" I've not been aware of a huge traffic
the other way.
--
Terry Pratchett
Beldin
This rather reminds ;-) me of the old (but still viable)
debate about allegory vs. applicability in the works of
Tolkien.
Basically it is a matter of unclear language - a lot of
annotations are of the sort "this reminds me of xxx and
that affects the way I read this book", but they pretend
to be of the "Pterry definitely took this from xxx"
variety.
The first is often relevant - after all, when you have
released the book to the publisher it becomes the
"property" of the readers in the sense that it is what
we, as readers, put into the reading that affects how
we read the book - often to an extend that is at least
on par with what the author put into it. Just stop the
meaningless attempt to lay the blame on poor Pterry,
when it's actually our (sometimes very weird) imagination
that supplies the annotations.
The other item is obviously also interesting, but in a
completely different way. The references that the author
puts into the book - consciously or subconsciously -
tells us quite a lot about the author and perhaps even
of the creative process, but it doesn't really say much
about how we should read the book.
When something on a DW book reminds me of some obscure
Danish song, custom or some such, I really don't think
the reference exists outside of my head - even if it
makes that particular passage the best/funniest of all
in the book. It might however be worth sharing it, if
I can explain it in a way so that others can share the
fun.
So - Terry P. stop complaining about the weird
annotations, because it really has nothing to do with
you (unless someone accidentally stumbles on something
you put there on purpose, in which case it would be
nice to know).
And all others - stop trying to guess the mind of
Pterry, when all you have to say is on the lines of
"I thought this was funny/interesting because it
reminded _me_ of xxx"
--
Beldin
Please reply to (t.f...@mail.dk)
This isn't right. This isn't even wrong.
Wolfgang Pauli, on a paper submitted by a physicist colleague
(Thus speaks the quantum physicist)
Terry Pratchett
<Bel...@ValeOfAldur.Alg> writes
>So - Terry P. stop complaining about the weird
>annotations,
Pardon me? Read the first couple of postings again. And remember that
I now regularly get letters and emails telling me that I 'got' UU, the
sapient books, the word Hogswatch and wizards on broomsticks from HP.
--
Terry Pratchett
Keith Ray
> Mark Constable <ma...@constable19.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
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> > Spell books that have to be chained to library shelves, that scream when
> > opened;
>
> The screaming book is in the Harry Potter book.
I'm sure I've read fantasy stories dating from at least the 1950's that
have had books that screamed or talked.
David Chapman
<shrug>
After you published ToT, the Harry Potter books were
written before TCoM. That's what you get for messing
around with the Trousers of Time.
--
While order does exist in the Universe,
it is not at all what we had in mind.
Mark Constable
on 12/11/2001 18:20:
> Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I've not been aware of a huge traffic
>> the other way.
>
> True, but I had just gotten annoyed with yet another "XXX is like YYY,
> isn't that strange" comment, which occurs in quite a lot of areas, not
> just Discworld. Ie, "that movie is just a feature length version of
> an old short story", "that episode plot was already done in Star
> Trek"...
Easy, tiger. I wasn't trying to start a 'who nicked what off of who'
argument. I was just posting small points that struck me after the event.
People see connections in many things and I fed into it in the hope of a
small discussion ensuing. I realise now I should have thought through the
consequences of such an ill-prepared action.
Too often reading on this group, I get the impression that only people who
are more interested in dissection and clever analysis, than actually
enjoying the bloody thing, are Valids (See? I nicked *that* from Gattaca).
I didn't read 'The Truth' last week for the first time, only to throw it all
the way to Business Class in exasperation that e.g. Vimes would never have
said that in an earlier story, or some such. Also, I'm not bothered if
people feel so strongly, as long as they don't catch me round the head with
said ballistic tome...
When it first appeared on Amazon in pre-order hardback (I don't read them at
that stage as I have a full set of paperbacks) I looked through this group
for a few days without seeing a single reference, so I posted some questions
about it and got a barrage of 'you must be the only person on this group who
hasn't heard of it' type replies, most of which were condescending. It may
have been true, and it would've been ok if the responders had actually
helped with the blasted answers. One of the few posters who actually
replied (as opposed to posting an ego-boosting put down) was an S Briggs...
Surely there's room for people who fly off for the weekend and read the book
on the way, and also those who stop in to really get down to it. Can't we
all just get along? (That one was from Mars Attacks-no I tell a lie, they
nicked it from somewhere else. The sods, eh?)
M
Lesley Weston
Bel...@ValeOfAldur.Alg wrote on 12/11/01 4:56 AM:
Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
Surely, everyone gets the point that some of the jokes depend on references
to other books or other works of art (sometimes quite obscure) which he
expects his audience to know already. These books are not for naive people!
Lesley Weston.
Andy Davison
<HwqMcVAn...@unseen.demon.co.uk>, Terry Pratchett
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Pardon me? Read the first couple of postings again. And remember that
>I now regularly get letters and emails telling me that I 'got' UU, the
>sapient books, the word Hogswatch and wizards on broomsticks from HP.
Don't worry, Terry, only weirdos post to AFP :)
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Andrew Wilson
> Would people that hadn't read the book be able to understand it?
> My friends don't seem to keen on it, and I'll just leave them behind
> if they're not going to have fun.
I don't think they'll have trouble understanding it. I talked to a
guy in work today who also saw it and hadn't read the book, he enjoyed
it. It might just be my weirdo friends. I certainly don't have any
problem recommending the film at all.
cheers
Andrew
Mary Sophia Novak
<ma...@constable19.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Too often reading on this group, I get the impression that only people who
>are more interested in dissection and clever analysis, than actually
>enjoying the bloody thing, are Valids (See? I nicked *that* from Gattaca).
[The Truth]
>When it first appeared on Amazon in pre-order hardback (I don't read them at
>that stage as I have a full set of paperbacks) I looked through this group
>for a few days without seeing a single reference, so I posted some questions
>about it and got a barrage of 'you must be the only person on this group who
>hasn't heard of it' type replies, most of which were condescending. It may
>have been true, and it would've been ok if the responders had actually
>helped with the blasted answers. One of the few posters who actually
>replied (as opposed to posting an ego-boosting put down) was an S Briggs...
There appear to be some misunderstandings.
First, you're addressing the wrong group, assuming you refer to the
discussion "New Pratchett Book on Amazon (title spoiler)?", which
Google shows you started on alt.books.pratchett. This is
alt.fan.pratchett. Many posters are regulars on both groups, but
usually in different proportions -- the highest-frequency posters on
abp are often quite subdued on afp, and vice-versa. There are also
people who frequent one group and not the other.
Even with the common participant base, the atmosphere on abp is very
different from afp, and it's true that abp's most vocal regulars are
primarily interested in in-depth analysis of the books. Afp has also
had its share of analysis threads, but also offers a more welcoming
home to non-analytical discussions like casting threads and favorite
character lists. (Occasionally those thrive on abp, too, and
sometimes they die over here. And abp *hasn't* been all that
analytical lately. Still, the above is generally true.)
Second, looking over the replies that your question garnered, I can't
find one that remotely resembles "you must be the only one that hasn't
heard of it" or any other "ego-boosting put down." What I see is more
what I would expect from an abp/afp discussion -- an immediate sharp
veer into the perennial debate "Kirby Covers: Replete with the True
Spirit of Discworld or Wretchedly Inaccurate?" and a digression off
that into plausible troll colors, those two points taking up the vast
majority of the thread. There are also a few posts from people who
had read proof copies by that time, none of whom reveal anything about
the content of the book (including CMOT Briggs.) Some of those posts
have a jokingly gloaty tone, but I don't see that any of it was
directed specifically at you -- the gloaters appear to have enjoyed
lording it over everyone in a good-humored way.
You might have gotten more helpful answers if your question or
follow-ups had been more specific than "Anybody know who, what etc.?"
(to which CMOT helpfully replied "Yes.") Then again, maybe not.
Speculation about the contents of future books has never been a big
part of af/bp culture (once upon a time it was actively proscribed,
and certain variations on it still are.) Presumably those few people
who had a proof copy five months before publication time felt
honor-bound not to reveal any details. Perhaps they would have
revealed something if pressed for specifics. Regardless, it certainly
appears to me that no offense or serious oneupmanship was intended.
--
Mary Sophia Novak
ms_n...@hotmail.com
Andrew Irish
Well, they're not necessarily wierdos when they start.
After a few weeks or, in some cases, hours, the transmogrification begins.
Of course, to the *real* world, the differences may be very subtle, almost
undetectable, but here, they are most noticeable.
PS. I don't think he was talking about people from afp sending him
letters/emails like that. We know he came first and that the two authors
probably came up with ideas seperately. When they have a similar basis
(eg wizards, witches etc), there is only so much you can do before the two
authors' stories have similarities.
--
Andrew
https://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~agi100
Email: agi...@ecs.soton.ac.uk,
a_i...@yahoo.com,
a_i...@lycos.co.uk
Andy Davison
<B8156426.5480%les...@vancouverbc.net>, Lesley Weston
<les...@vancouverbc.net> wrote:
>Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots and
characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
>Surely, everyone gets the point that some of the jokes depend on references
>to other books or other works of art (sometimes quite obscure) which he
>expects his audience to know already. These books are not for naive people!
Everyone is everyone. That includes naive people, morons and
conspiracy theorists.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Beldin
> In article <3BEFC700...@ValeOfAldur.Alg>, Beldin
> <Bel...@ValeOfAldur.Alg> writes
>
>> So - Terry P. stop complaining about the weird
>> annotations,
>
>
> Pardon me? Read the first couple of postings again.
What I read are attempts to trace elements of the HP
movie back to the DW books ...
> And remember that
> I now regularly get letters and emails telling me that I 'got' UU, the
> sapient books, the word Hogswatch and wizards on broomsticks from HP.
Sorry - didn't know that. It's ridiculous.
I thought you were complaining about the strange annotations
connecting paragraphs in your books to all sorts of movies,
books and what not.
--
Beldin
Please reply to t.f...@mail.dk
- I USHERED SOULS INTO THE NEXT WORLD. I WAS THE GRAVE OF ALL
HOPE. I WAS THE ULTIMATE REALITY. I WAS THE ASSASSIN AGAINST
WHOM NO LOCK WOULD HOLD.
- "Yes, point taken, but do you have any particular skills?"
-- Death consults a job broker (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
Phil Davison
>On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:33:51 GMT, in message
><B8156426.5480%les...@vancouverbc.net>, Lesley Weston
><les...@vancouverbc.net> wrote:
>
>>Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
>
>Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots and
>characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
>
COMING SOON TO A BOOKSHOP NEAR YOU!
The new Terry Pratchett novel in which
life is given to inanimate matter!
FRAMPTON COMES ALIVE!
(inspired by a 70s concept album)
IGMC.
--
Cyclops
CSR
andy.d...@btinternet.com says...
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:33:51 GMT, in message
> <B8156426.5480%les...@vancouverbc.net>, Lesley Weston
> <les...@vancouverbc.net> wrote:
>
> >Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
>
> Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots and
> characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
Right, I mean all the 'Eighth Son' stuff in Sourcery was nicked from
Iron Maiden for a start.
:-)
(And isn't it sad that I feel I have to include a smiley.)
--
Colin in Oslo
Leo Breebaart
CSR <cos...@REMOVETHISonline.no> writes:
> > >Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
> >
> > Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots
> > and characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
>
> Right, I mean all the 'Eighth Son' stuff in Sourcery was nicked from
> Iron Maiden for a start.
>
> :-)
Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as the
original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is dead"
rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all that.
As you say, _Sourcery_ (and _Equal Rites_!) clearly both plagiarise
_Seventh Son of a Seventh Son_ (in an obvious attempt to cover his
tracks (pun intended, hur hur), Terry changed the number 'seven' into
'eight', but we're too clever to fall for that).
_Pyramids_ is a blatant rewrite of _Powerslave_, what with the whole
Egyptian theme, and the title song is a dead giveaway: "Tell me why I
had to be a Powerslave / I don't wanna die, I'm a god / why can't I live
on?" -- is that Dios, or what?
_Somewhere in Time_ cleverly became _Thief of Time_ (with 'Sea of
Madness' providing the inspiration for the time-slicing sequences in the
latter).
And as far as _Good Omens_ is concerned, I only need to mention four
words: _Number of the Beast_. 'Nuff said.
I could go on and on. Even at the individual song level there are
amazing 'coincidences':
'Murders in the Rue Morgue' - a song about an Orangutan!
'Hallowed Be Thy Name' - sung by a victim of the Quisition!
'Quest For Fire' - can you say Ahura Mazda?
'Dream of Mirrors' - Esmi and Lilith!
'The Assassin' - Pteppic!
And nearly every Iron Maiden song you'd care to name features Death in
some fashion, just like the Discworld novels do!
Man, this is huge, I tell you, huge!!!! I think I have to go lie down
now.
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Beldin
> CSR <cos...@REMOVETHISonline.no> writes:
>
>
>
>>>> Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots
>>> and characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
>>
>> Right, I mean all the 'Eighth Son' stuff in Sourcery was nicked from
>> Iron Maiden for a start.
>
> Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as the
> original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is dead"
> rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all that.
Or maybe he just got it from the same sources as the
Maiden?
It is by now some years since I listened seriously to
the Maiden (I did go to a concert on the Power Tour -
which is only some 15 or 16 years back ;-) and I don't
remember things very well any longer, but I think I
remember that their originality is in the musical
representation of old ideas - all the songs I still
remember are based on older things.
> 'Murders in the Rue Morgue' - a song about an Orangutan!
Poe - his short story even had the same name.
> 'Hallowed Be Thy Name' - sung by a victim of the Quisition!
> 'Quest For Fire' - can you say Ahura Mazda?
> 'Dream of Mirrors' - Esmi and Lilith!
> 'The Assassin' - Pteppic!
>
> And nearly every Iron Maiden song you'd care to name features Death in
> some fashion, just like the Discworld novels do!
I think the sources for the DW death has been commented on
sufficiently.
> Man, this is huge, I tell you, huge!!!! I think I have to go lie down
> now.
Yes - Iron Maiden shows to have an actually quite
sophisticated taste in literature (and NO - I don't mean
DW).
--
Beldin
Please reply to t.f...@mail.dk
Ash nazg durbatuluk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatuluk
agh burzum ishi krimpatul.
-- Tolkien in The Fellowship of the Ring
MikeXXXX
>
> CSR <cos...@REMOVETHISonline.no> writes:
>
> > > >Nobody would be silly enough to accuse Terry Pratchett of plagiarism.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, some people do. Usual suggestions include the plots
> > > and characters being nicked from a 70s cocept album.
> >
> > Right, I mean all the 'Eighth Son' stuff in Sourcery was nicked from
> > Iron Maiden for a start.
> >
> > :-)
>
> Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as the
> original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is dead"
> rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all that.
<snip> [Can I suggest you let miq put this on his 'book review'
pages as a sort of overview? It's brilliant]
> And nearly every Iron Maiden song you'd care to name features Death in
> some fashion, just like the Discworld novels do!
>
> Man, this is huge, I tell you, huge!!!! I think I have to go lie down
> now.
About the only thing you could have added was that DW had to be a
spinning disc because pTerry wore out several needles playing the record.!!
regards
Mike
David Chapman
> And nearly every Iron Maiden song you'd care to name features Death in
> some fashion, just like the Discworld novels do!
No - Death *is* Eddie.
Andy Davison
<3BF4F88F...@suespammers.org>, MikeXXXX <mi...@suespammers.org>
wrote:
>Leo Breebaart wrote:
>>
>> Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as the
>> original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is dead"
>> rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all that.
You can't forget Santana. He had the temerity to release an album
called Jingo
><snip> [Can I suggest you let miq put this on his 'book review'
>pages as a sort of overview? It's brilliant]
Hee hee!
>> And nearly every Iron Maiden song you'd care to name features Death in
>> some fashion, just like the Discworld novels do!
Yeah but I think that's got more to do with playing football at Wadham
Lodge than anything.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Terry Pratchett
<l...@lspace.org> writes
>Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as the
>original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is dead"
>rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all that.
Thank you, AFP.
I will treasure, for all the wrong reasons, the following exchange that
took place on this tour.
A young lady opened TLH at the picture of Ponder Stibbons and said
triumphantly:
"That's a blatant reference to Harry Potter, right?"
I politely referred her to The Pratchett Portfolio, pub.1996. She gave
them some thought, and then said:
"Okay, then it's a coincidence."
The logic is impeccable.
--
Terry Pratchett
Leo Breebaart
Andy Davison <andy.d...@btinternet.com> writes:
> >Leo Breebaart wrote:
> >>
> >> Bloody hell, I think you're unto something here! Forget Santana as
> >> the original source for the Discworld, forget those silly "Paul is
> >> dead" rumours -- the Maiden Connection is *much* bigger than all
> >> that.
>
> You can't forget Santana. He had the temerity to release an album
> called Jingo
Damn, so he did! That can only mean that this runs *even deeper* than I
thought.
After all, we know that Santana covered 'She's Not There' by the Zombies
(Reg Shoe!), whose singer was Colin Blunstone (troll name!), who also
sang for the Alan Parsons Project (album: _Pyramid_!), a project led by
Parsons, who engineered _The Dark Side of the Moon_ (of the Sun!), a
Pink Floyd album that can be used as a soundtrack to _The Wizard of Oz_
(_The Last Continent_!), directed by Victor Fleming, who also did _Gone
with the Wind_ (_Moving Pictures_!), which had a score by Max Steiner
(troll name!), who also composed the music for _The Voice of the Turtle_
(_Small Gods_!), which starred Ronald Reagan (patrician!), who was also
in a movie called _The Killers_, and now if only Iron Maiden's legendary
second album had been called that instead of just _Killers_, I'd be
absolutely certain that I had figured it all out. But as it is, it's
probably just coincidence, after all. Shucks.
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Melody S-K
*giggles*
Am I the only one who read the above and thought of Goodness
Gracious Me?
The TV programme rather than the Sellers/Loren song.
You know , the sketches they do where the father proves to
the son that
everything from Christmas to Superman is *Indian!*
;o)
Melody
--
Hey, if you cut off your foot, you wouldn't keep putting it
in your mouth, but your body wouldn't be the same, would it?
The Gonzo Lager
>The logic is impeccable.
I run into a similar situation. I've got two lovely redheaded
daughters, born three years apart. And we're constantly asked:
"Are they twins?"
"No," we say. "They're three years apart."
"Are you sure?"
The Gonz'
Darkmoon
Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
Oddly enough, my sister and I (20 months apart) were never mistaken for
twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
Now it's easy, what with the purple hair and all, but that didn't come
about until relatively recently. :)
--
Sierra Kempster, http://www.lunamorena.net/
Normality is a curse for the weak.
Please use Reply-To when responding via email.
Leo Breebaart
The Gonzo Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> writes:
> I've got two lovely redheaded daughters, born three years apart. And
> we're constantly asked: "Are they twins?"
If they were, you could have called them Laz and Lor, which would have
been kinda cool, I think.
Are you *really* sure they're not twins?
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
Orjan Westin
>
> The Gonzo Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> writes:
>
> > I've got two lovely redheaded daughters, born three years apart. And
> > we're constantly asked: "Are they twins?"
>
> If they were, you could have called them Laz and Lor, which would have
> been kinda cool, I think.
In which case, the subject line is pertinent again...
I dunno about Heinlein - I wish he'd written more books not centered around
the weirdly incestous sexual escapades of the descendants of Maureen Long.
Heck, if he'd just not tried to be convention-defying he'd been much more
interesting. As it is, the stories and characters are often interesting,
but his evangelicism about the virtues of sexual liberty are to mine eye too
heavy-handed and adolescent.
Was his wife red-haired, btw?
Orjan
Mary Messall
> I dunno about Heinlein - I wish he'd written more books not centered around
> the weirdly incestous sexual escapades of the descendants of Maureen Long.
> Heck, if he'd just not tried to be convention-defying he'd been much more
> interesting. As it is, the stories and characters are often interesting,
> but his evangelicism about the virtues of sexual liberty are to mine eye too
> heavy-handed and adolescent.
Read the early stuff and the juveniles. Have Spacesuit Will Travel,
Citizen of the Galaxy, Door into Summer. The Roads Must Roll (short
story), The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, Podkayne of Mars, The Puppet
Masters. And Job, and that one about the actor who has to play
president of Mars or something.
To pick some at random off my shelf (okay, so it's the shelf at home,
as I don't actually have any Heinlein with me.) He does have a sense of
humor, and he can create sarcastic, smart, human characters who are not
obsessed with sex. He just seems to have grown tired of doing so later
in his career.
-Mary
--
{I drank at every vine. / The last was like the first. / I came upon
no wine / So wonderful as thirst.} {"Heaven bless the babe!" they said
"What queer books she must have read!"} -two by Edna St Vincent Millay
http://indagabo.orcon.net.nz --> my soapbox and grandstand and gallery
Ailbhe Leamy
This absolutely and without question trumps my "Are you sure?"
experience.
"How do you spell that?"
"A-I-L-B for Bertie-H-E."
"A-I-L-V-H-E."
"No, not V for Van, B for Bertie."
"Are you sure?"
Ailbhe
--
Ailbhe's homepage: http://ailbhe.ossifrage.net/
* People I know sell craftwork online:
* Custom knot- & bead-work: http://www.gordiandesigns.com/
* Handpainted glassware & canvas: http://designs.ladykayla.org/
Orjan Westin
news:3BF91242...@durham.ac.uk...
> Orjan Westin wrote:
> > I dunno about Heinlein - I wish he'd written more books not centered
> > around the weirdly incestous sexual escapades of the descendants
> > of Maureen Long.
> Read the early stuff and the juveniles.
Oh, I have. I just wish he'd written more of those and less of "I want
nothing more than have sexual intecourse with my father/mother/son". If he
keeps it at the level of Stranger in a strange land I'm happy, but that
little rant was brought on by having recently bought and read "The cat who
walk through walls", "To sail beyond the sunset", "Time enough for love",
and "I will fear no evil". I understand these are all late.
<snip>
> and that one about the actor who has to play
> president of Mars or something.
Of the human federation, risking his political career to get the native
martians representation and membership. Double Star, I think it's called.
> He does have a sense of
> humor, and he can create sarcastic, smart, human characters who are not
> obsessed with sex. He just seems to have grown tired of doing so later
> in his career.
I loved his juvenile books when I was one, and the ones I've reread works
fine to my more (I hope) mature eye as well. I'm just sad that I've now got
this image of the old Heinlein drooling over seventeen year old redheads
with large breasts and wide hips. Not, mind you, that I think there's
anything inherently wrong with that, but it seems a waste of talent that he
let that hobby influence his writing so much. Too much of a good thing, and
all that.
Orjan
Lesley Weston
NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk wrote on 19/11/01 3:45 AM:
<snip>
> I dunno about Heinlein - I wish he'd written more books not centered around
> the weirdly incestous sexual escapades of the descendants of Maureen Long.
>
<snip>
>
> Was his wife red-haired, btw?
>
> Orjan
>
>
Yes.
Lesley.
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukdeletethis
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:35:48 -0000, "Orjan Westin"
<NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[Re: Heinlein]
>> Read the early stuff and the juveniles.
>
>Oh, I have. I just wish he'd written more of those and less of "I want
>nothing more than have sexual intecourse with my father/mother/son".
At least he didn't (AFAIR) end up with Lazarus Long being his own
father!
>that little rant was brought on by having recently bought and read "The cat who
>walk through walls", "To sail beyond the sunset", "Time enough for love",
>and "I will fear no evil". I understand these are all late.
The first two certainly are, and are just total re-hashes of earlier
works (including TEFL!), however TEFL and IWFNE are much earlier.
TEFL, however, is just *waaay* too self-indulgent.
IMO the last good (read: original) book he wrote was Job: A Comedy of
Justice.
Cheers,
Graham.
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukdeletethis
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:08:02 +0000, Mary Messall
<m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
>> I dunno about Heinlein - I wish he'd written more books not centered around
>> the weirdly incestous sexual escapades of the descendants of Maureen Long.
>
>Read the early stuff and the juveniles.
The early stuff is a bit too "Boys Own Stories" for my liking, but the
middle period stuff works best, especially his "Future History"
series.
>and that one about the actor who has to play president of Mars or something.
Double Star, IIRC.
Cheers,
Graham.
Leo Breebaart
The text below contains a major SPOILER for various stories by Heinlein.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukDELETETHIS writes:
> >> Read the early stuff and the juveniles.
> >
> >Oh, I have. I just wish he'd written more of those and less of "I
> >want nothing more than have sexual intecourse with my
> >father/mother/son".
"unless it is sexual intercourse with my clones or with my incarnated
computers, of course"
> At least he didn't (AFAIR) end up with Lazarus Long being his own
> father!
Correct. Lazarus did get to have sex with his own mother, but he was
already born by then.
(Since the lives of Lazarus Long and his family involve lots of
complicated time travelling (as well as lots of complicated sex), that
statement is not as blindingly obvious as it might appear at first
glance.)
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
David Roy
news:191120010023212285%nos...@lunamorena.net:
> In article <4rkgvtcmi2v4qelu7...@4ax.com>, The Gonzo
> Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:28:00 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
>>
>> >The logic is impeccable.
>> I run into a similar situation. I've got two lovely redheaded
>> daughters, born three years apart. And we're constantly asked:
>> "Are they twins?"
>>
>> "No," we say. "They're three years apart."
>>
>> "Are you sure?"
>
> Oddly enough, my sister and I (20 months apart) were never mistaken for
> twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
> quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
> obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
>
> Now it's easy, what with the purple hair and all, but that didn't come
> about until relatively recently. :)
>
I'll see your mistaken identity, and raise you being repeatedly
mistaken for someone I'm not even remotely related to. I'm big and play
the double bass. So's he. We repeatedly played in the same
bands/orchestras. So did other people. In other words, they regularly
saw both of us in the same place at the same time and knew that we were
different people. But we went to different schools. And people who went
to the same school as him regularly came up to me and started talking *to
him*. About stuff I had and could have no idea about.
David
Mary Messall
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:35:48 -0000, "Orjan Westin"
> <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >that little rant was brought on by having recently bought and read "The cat who
> >walk through walls", "To sail beyond the sunset", "Time enough for love",
> >and "I will fear no evil". I understand these are all late.
> The first two certainly are, and are just total re-hashes of earlier
> works (including TEFL!), however TEFL and IWFNE are much earlier.
I Will Fear No Evil is probably the only book that I have ever
*actually* thrown across the room in disgust. By the time you got two
horny men and one horny woman all sharing the body of the same
voluptuous redhead, there was really no redeeming it. Never read the
rest of it. It just reeks of the seventies (<checks> hmm, published
1970. It probably helped *cause* the seventies)
Job was apparently published in 1984, followed by The Cat Who Walks
Through Walls (one of the most self-indulgent of them all, IIRC) and To
Sail Beyond the Sunset, which appears to be his last novel. So there
was at least one good late work. I'm surprised; I thought that one was
much earlier. I'm told Friday (1982) is good too, although I've never
read it. Aside from that, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, in 1966 seems
to be a pretty good watershed. Some really brilliant stuff before it,
some long, dry decades after.
PDF bibliography:
http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/nhol.pdf
-Mary (not that I have anything against voluptuous redheads... Well,
okay, I do. Jealous hatred and suspicion, mainly. <g>)
Stuart Painting
"Orjan Westin" <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I loved his juvenile books when I was one,
Really? I had to wait until I was 15.
(sorry, couldn't resist...)
Nanny Ogg
<NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> writes:
>If he
>keeps it at the level of Stranger in a strange land I'm happy, but that
>little rant was brought on by having recently bought and read "The cat who
>walk through walls", "To sail beyond the sunset", "Time enough for love",
>and "I will fear no evil". I understand these are all late.
`To Sail Beyond The Sunset' was actually the last one he wrote, IIRC. He quite
literally seems to lose the plot in that one. It has its likeable bits, but am
I the only person who thinks it would _never_ have got published as SF [1] if
he wasn't already one of the giants of the SF field?
[1] Or anything else in its current form, although with a fair bit of editing
it would make pretty good ChickLit.
All the best,
Sarah
--
`If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you'll be
taller than everyone else.' Kipling and _I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue_
`Unfortunately Real Life lacks a decent tourist information service' Adrian
Morgan
The Gonzo Lager
>If they were, you could have called them Laz and Lor, which would have
>been kinda cool, I think.
One of our daughters is named Hannah. I wanted to use that name for
our second daughter, only spell it backwards. :)
>Are you *really* sure they're not twins?
Pretty sure, unless my wife developed some form of gestationary delay
with the second born.
The Gonz'
Sherilyn
>
[...]
>
>I Will Fear No Evil is probably the only book that I have ever
>*actually* thrown across the room in disgust. By the time you got two
>horny men and one horny woman all sharing the body of the same
>voluptuous redhead, there was really no redeeming it. Never read the
>rest of it. It just reeks of the seventies (<checks> hmm, published
>1970. It probably helped *cause* the seventies)
>
Well, the seventies most probably helped *cause* a lot of our fellow afpers!
Can't be all bad. :)
A good few years ago there was a net tradition of the Great Heinlein Flame War,
which would rage across USENET groups for some months until some poor hapless
newbie admitted that he hadn't actually read the books he was talking about.
During one of those flame wars, I obtained a copy of Stranger in a Strange Land,
which I hadn't read in over two decades, sat down, and tried to read it. I
couldn't finish it. The book was just so full of what my own age takes for
banalities and silliness that I could not put myself back into the head of the
sixteen-year-old who had read and enjoyed the book in the early seventies.
Even then, Heinlein was regarded as a bit old hat. I recall that I grew up
steeped in the works of the British New Age SF writers, and onlybothered with
Heinlein's nonsense because David Bowie had expressed an interest in filming it.
Bowie later opted to star in the far superior Walter "Hustler " Tevis novel, The
Man Who Fell to Earth, directed by Nic Roeg.
--
Sherilyn
Ari
> In article <4rkgvtcmi2v4qelu7...@4ax.com>, The Gonzo
> Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:28:00 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
> >
> > >The logic is impeccable.
for
> twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
> quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
> obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
visually, but I just can't remember which is which.
-Ari
Sideshow Bill
<m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
> I'm told Friday (1982) is good too, although I've never read it.
Then don't, 'cos it's fairly awful too IMHO. If you threw "I Will Fear
No Evil" across the room then lines like "rape isn't so bad, so long
as the guy doesn't have bad breath" will have you ripping the pages
out. To put it in context, the character is a spy and she's talking
about the various techniques that may be used to get her to cough up
her secrets but all the same it's the sort of line that makes even a
bloke wince at its insensitivity.
Oh yes, and all the characters have regular sex with each other.
BC
Beldin
Personally I've got 4 kids - all of them easily identifiable
and separable from the others, but I still get the wrong name
every so often. This is especially bad when I'm tired - some
times I think I've got some small sleep-need triggered name-
randomizer working somewhere inside ... ;-)
And I see other people doing the same - even people who see
them a lot. I think that if they have sufficiently in common
we just start mixing it up (and being siblings is fairly
much to have in common).
--
Beldin
Please reply to (t.f...@mail.dk)
This isn't right. This isn't even wrong.
Wolfgang Pauli, on a paper submitted by a physicist colleague
(Thus speaks the quantum physicist)
Richard Bos
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:35:48 -0000, "Orjan Westin"
> <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Oh, I have. I just wish he'd written more of those and less of "I want
> >nothing more than have sexual intecourse with my father/mother/son".
>
> At least he didn't (AFAIR) end up with Lazarus Long being his own
> father!
The only reason for that is that Heinlein never knew about AFPamilies.
If Gid can be his own brother, Heinlein would have no problem making
Lazarus his own father.
Richard
Darkmoon
<Bel...@ValeOfAldur.Alg> wrote:
Hmm, perhaps that's why I just seem to get names switched in general
all the time.
Orjan Westin
The Gonzo Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote in message
news:j1cjvto7570qmocvh...@4ax.com...
There's a young Italian woman who's due to give birth to a child just about
now. And then to twins in three months time...
Orjan
Andrew Irish
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:03:49 +0000 (UTC), Leo Breebaart wrote:
> >If they were, you could have called them Laz and Lor, which would have
> >been kinda cool, I think.
> One of our daughters is named Hannah. I wanted to use that name for
> our second daughter, only spell it backwards. :)
ti?
> >Are you *really* sure they're not twins?
> Pretty sure, unless my wife developed some form of gestationary delay
> with the second born.
Just one thing to say here -> birth scene in ToT...
--
Andrew
https://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~agi100
Email: agi...@ecs.soton.ac.uk,
a_i...@yahoo.com,
a_i...@lycos.co.uk,
a_ir...@hotmail.com
Yannick Larvor
[Heinlein]
> I loved his juvenile books when I was one,
You were a juvenile book? This place gets stranger by the minute :-)
I'll just get my cover, shall I?
--
Yannick
Jen Birren
> I Will Fear No Evil is probably the only book that I have ever
> *actually* thrown across the room in disgust.
The only book I have hurled is "Feel The Fear... And Do It Anyway!".
(Comparisons with chucking up are valid, yes.) I can't remember
*exactly* why any more, but I recently picked up a book with an
interesting title in the library, looked at a couple of pages, thought
"What a lot of crap. Not just bollocks, but sanctimonious, patronising
bollocks," and then noticed it had "By the author of Feel The Fear" in
big letters on the cover.
Still, it stopped me looking at the self-help section of bookshops,
thereby saving me much time and annoyance. [1]
Jen
[1] Some self-help books are doubtless very well-written, insightful and
useful in helping people overcome their own problems, and are not a
hidden attempt to make people conform to the author's ideas of what is
Right (coughMarsAndVenuscough;
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/women_rebuttal_from_uranus/chaplink.htm
). How you tell which are useful and which are a load of fetid dingo's
kidneys is not clear to me.
Aquarion
even *attempt* to rationalise them" - Afphrid notes, June 2000
"F***UP: You can't relate to yourself, you'll go blind"
- Aphrid error messages, Sept 2001
Yours in total sincerity,
Aquarion
Leo Breebaart
The Gonzo Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> writes:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:03:49 +0000 (UTC), Leo Breebaart wrote:
>
> >If they were, you could have called them Laz and Lor, which would
> >have been kinda cool, I think.
>
> One of our daughters is named Hannah. I wanted to use that name for
> our second daughter, only spell it backwards. :)
So it's Hannah and her sister, right? That's kinda cool, too.
Do you have plans for any more daughters?
--
Leo Breebaart <l...@lspace.org>
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukdeletethis
On Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:56:44 +0000, Mary Messall
<m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
[Re: Heinlein]
>Job was apparently published in 1984, followed by The Cat Who Walks
>Through Walls (one of the most self-indulgent of them all, IIRC)
Unfortunately it was *massively* self-or-other-works of Heinlein
referential, but even if you'd read them all it wasn't good.
>and To Sail Beyond the Sunset, which appears to be his last novel.
I thought there was at least one more after TSBtS, but I haven't
checked.
>So there was at least one good late work. I'm surprised;
It's not stunningly great, but it is at least original.
>I'm told Friday (1982) is good too, although I've never read it.
Err, nope!
Friday is good if you're a teenager (lots of gratuitous sex!) but
that's about all it has to "recommend"(!) it.
>Aside from that, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, in 1966 seems
>to be a pretty good watershed.
TMiaHM was actually the first Heinlein book I read and it was
definitely very good.
Cheers,
Graham.
Lena Williams
> The only book I have hurled is "Feel The Fear... And Do It Anyway!".
<snip>
The only book I've hurled is Bridget Jones' Diary. Are there really
women out there who are that completely and utterly pathetic?
Lena
--
http://lena.lakesedge.org \\ http://lena.lakesedge.org/pros
FATAL ERROR! SYSTEM HALTED! - Press any key to do nothing...
David Chapman
> Jen Birren said:
>
> > The only book I have hurled is "Feel The Fear... And Do It Anyway!".
> <snip>
>
> The only book I've hurled is Bridget Jones' Diary.
Books thrown across room - 1 (v.g.)
Are there really
> women out there who are that completely and utterly pathetic?
There are always people out there with low self-esteem.
But I don't think jumping on their faces wearing hobnailed
boots improves their situation any, do you?
--
While order does exist in the Universe,
it is not at all what we had in mind.
The Gonzo Lager
>ti?
Oi! Two minutes for... well.. you know.
The Gonz'
The Gonzo Lager
>So it's Hannah and her sister, right? That's kinda cool, too.
Oh. Wow. I have never heard that one before. Honestly. Guv. :) ;) :)
>Do you have plans for any more daughters?
What, and have the above joke replayed over and over? :D
Actually, we're working towards a third child. I care not whether it's
a girl or a boy. Just so long as it's healthy and has the correct
number of eyes, fingers, and toes ("Two, ten, eleven!").
The Gonz'
The Gonzo Lager
>There's a young Italian woman who's due to give birth to a child just about
>now. And then to twins in three months time...
Y'know, I read that on the BBC News website. Lordy. I guess that
dispels the myth that men don't like to have sex during a woman's
pregnancy.
The Gonz'
She wants to sell my monkey!
Sideshow Bill
wrote:
>The only book I've hurled is Bridget Jones' Diary. Are there really
>women out there who are that completely and utterly pathetic?
Bridget Jones I rattled off in an afternoon, found it vaguely amusing
but didn't have the urge to throw it across the room. The same cannot
be said however for Arabella Weir's "Does My Bum Look Big In This".
It's surely no coincidence that charity shops and car boot sales seem
full of copies of this book. It's poorly written, so poor that it's
virtually impossible to read and its 'heroine' makes Bridget Jones
seem like Xena Warrior Princess in comparison.
Mind you, that'c 'chick-lit' for you I guess. Didn't Fay Weldon (or
another writer of equal gravitas) once go on record wondering why this
brand of fiction is so popular when its women are all so obsessed with
their weight and finding a bloke ?
BC
Richard Bos
> [1] Some self-help books are doubtless very well-written, insightful and
> useful in helping people overcome their own problems, and are not a
> hidden attempt to make people conform to the author's ideas of what is
> Right (coughMarsAndVenuscough;
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/women_rebuttal_from_uranus/chaplink.htm
Men from Mars, women from Venus is hopelessly wrong, anyway. Everybody
knows that both Mars and Venus are Japanese teenage girls in sailor
dresses.
Richard
David Chapman
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:09:08 -0000, Orjan Westin wrote:
>
> >There's a young Italian woman who's due to give birth to a child just about
> >now. And then to twins in three months time...
> Y'know, I read that on the BBC News website. Lordy. I guess that
> dispels the myth that men don't like to have sex during a woman's
> pregnancy.
How would he know she was pregnant? At three months
you're often not showing, and if he managed to get her up
the duff again, she must still have been menstruating. It's
possible, even probable, that *she* didn't know about
the first pregnancy.
Besides, men still like to have sex during a woman's
pregnancy - even *their* woman's pregnancy. They
just don't necessarily want to have sex with a pregnant
woman...
David Chapman
> Mind you, that'c 'chick-lit' for you I guess. Didn't Fay Weldon (or
> another writer of equal gravitas) once go on record wondering why this
> brand of fiction is so popular when its women are all so obsessed with
> their weight and finding a bloke ?
That would be because so many women are obsessed with
their weight and finding a bloke, I should think.
A.P. Spray
> > > I've done this, I know some non-identical twins who I can tell apart
> > > visually, but I just can't remember which is which.
> > > -Ari
> >
> > Personally I've got 4 kids - all of them easily identifiable
> > and separable from the others, but I still get the wrong name
> > every so often. This is especially bad when I'm tired - some
> > times I think I've got some small sleep-need triggered name-
> > randomizer working somewhere inside ... ;-)
> > And I see other people doing the same - even people who see
> > them a lot. I think that if they have sufficiently in common
> > we just start mixing it up (and being siblings is fairly
> > much to have in common).
>
> Hmm, perhaps that's why I just seem to get names switched in general
> all the time.
I have a simpler plan; I simply forget all names.
--
Andrew Spray.
Probably.
Speaker-to-Customers
"A.P. Spray" wrote ...
>
> I have a simpler plan; I simply forget all names.
And I remember all names; I just forget which people they apply to.
Has this thread anything whatsoever to do with the influence of Iron Maiden
on Terry's writings any more?
Paul Speaker-to- er, thingies, whatsits, you know...
"Heavy Metal was how we were raised
Maiden and Priest were the gods* that we praised.."
(some Canadian rock band or other, singer has spiky hair, you know the
one...)
(* "Small" gods, presumably. Especially as the video is shot in a Shopping
mall - S. mall? Reverse annotation; Maiden influence both Terry and Sum 41,
who acknowledge the influences in a disguised fashion - or am I just being
paranoid*)
(*Yes, I know that was Black Sabbath)
Jenny Radcliffe
> Personally I've got 4 kids - all of them easily identifiable
> and separable from the others, but I still get the wrong name
> every so often. This is especially bad when I'm tired - some
> times I think I've got some small sleep-need triggered name-
> randomizer working somewhere inside ... ;-)
> And I see other people doing the same - even people who
> see them a lot. I think that if they have sufficiently in common
> we just start mixing it up (and being siblings is fairly
> much to have in common).
My great-grandmother, with a husband Dries[1] and three sons, Dick,
Aad and Jan, managed, once all three sons had left home, to
regularly call hubby to dinner with "Dick! Aad! Jan! Dries!!!"
My grandmother, with a daughter Lenneke, who speaks Dutch, and a
granddaughter me who doesn't, was prone to start talking to me in
Dutch and addressing me as Lenneke.
My mother, with an ex-husband called Steve, a brother called Martin
and a son called Douglas addresses Douglas by all three names pretty
well at random.
I have always assumed that this is normal.
Then at one point I had a housemate called Richard whose dad David
rang weekly at least and a housemate called David whose father
Richard rang frequently and sometimes after I'd gone to sleep of an
evening ...
Jenny didn't *quite* ever *actually* offend any of them in confusion
....
[1] At this point I had better apologise - I am only guessing this
spelling ...
Jenny Radcliffe
> So it's Hannah and her sister, right? That's kinda cool, too.
<points at mother Lenneke and _her_ cousin Nelleke ...>
Jenny Radcliffe
> Lena Williams <le...@lakesedge.org> wrote:
> >The only book I've hurled is Bridget Jones' Diary. Are there
> >really women out there who are that completely and utterly
> >pathetic?
> Bridget Jones I rattled off in an afternoon, found it vaguely
> amusing but didn't have the urge to throw it across the room.
> The same cannot be said however for Arabella Weir's "Does
> My Bum Look Big In This". It's surely no coincidence that
> charity shops and car boot sales seem full of copies of this
> book. It's poorly written, so poor that it's virtually impossible
> to read and its 'heroine' makes Bridget Jones seem like Xena
> Warrior Princess in comparison.
Haven't read "Bridget Jones", but I agree with you utterly about
"Does My Bum". I like ChickFic, it makes me laugh, it's utter
escapism, it's cool. But that one's crap.
> Mind you, that'c 'chick-lit' for you I guess. Didn't Fay Weldon
> (or another writer of equal gravitas) once go on record
> wondering why this brand of fiction is so popular when its
> women are all so obsessed with their weight and finding a
> bloke ?
Not entirely fair, rather a lot of the time they're worrying about
the jobs they lost through sheer ditzyness, too ... but seriously,
escapism comes into it, for me at least. And there's plenty of
humour - they're novels to make you laugh, and you don't get many
other genres that do that. Well, I don't, anyway.
Ool
> I will treasure, for all the wrong reasons, the following exchange that
> took place on this tour.
> A young lady opened TLH at the picture of Ponder Stibbons and said
> triumphantly:
> "That's a blatant reference to Harry Potter, right?"
That's what I would have thought, too, if I hadn't known better.
> I politely referred her to The Pratchett Portfolio, pub.1996. She gave
> them some thought, and then said:
> "Okay, then it's a coincidence."
> The logic is impeccable.
All right, all right, so it is. But now that the connection is there,
shouldn't you give Ponder some mythical birthmark or something, like,
say, a laser symbol on his behind?
--
__ "Sometimes the journey is the destination--but __
('__`> not when trying to get to the bathroom in time!" <'__`)
//6(6; 呢OL mmi :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich.schreglmann/redbaron \-_/'
Ool
> Bridget Jones I rattled off in an afternoon, found it vaguely amusing
> but didn't have the urge to throw it across the room. The same cannot
> be said however for Arabella Weir's "Does My Bum Look Big In This".
> It's surely no coincidence that charity shops and car boot sales seem
> full of copies of this book. It's poorly written, so poor that it's
> virtually impossible to read and its 'heroine' makes Bridget Jones
> seem like Xena Warrior Princess in comparison.
I don't think DMBLBiT is supposed to make you cringe. I recall read-
ing it and I did nothing but laugh, because the absurdity of the char-
acter getting all the signals from her environment wrong is so way
over the top it's just divine. And the stroke of genius lies in the
fact that the reader sees everything through the protagonist's eyes,
can clearly understand at all times what is really going on, and yet
the heroine never does.
But what makes "... Bum ..." bearable and entertaining is the fact
that it leads to a lot of misunderstandings but never to anything as
nerve-wrackingly embarrassing as in BJD. BJD is like watching a car
crash in which people get hurt, though not seriously. "... Bum ..."
is like someone constantly causing near-collisions, but without anyone
other than the uninvolved bystander (i.e. reader) even noticing.
Sideshow Bill
<jenn...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>Not entirely fair, rather a lot of the time they're worrying about
>the jobs they lost through sheer ditzyness, too ... but seriously,
>escapism comes into it, for me at least. And there's plenty of
>humour - they're novels to make you laugh, and you don't get many
>other genres that do that. Well, I don't, anyway.
Agreed. I'm read all sorts of genres and I did think at the time the
critcism, while not entirely unfair, was missing the point. The type
of criticism levelled (thinking on it it might have been Beryl
Bainbridge or possibly Maeve Binchy rather than Fay Weldon) is just as
easily applied to any genre fiction. They're formulaeic because the
authors and publishers know what their public want.
I can't claim to have laughed too much at BJ'sD but Kathy Lette has me
in stitches.
BC
Sideshow Bill
<ulrich.sc...@t-online.de> wrote:
>But what makes "... Bum ..." bearable and entertaining is the fact
>that it leads to a lot of misunderstandings but never to anything as
>nerve-wrackingly embarrassing as in BJD. BJD is like watching a car
>crash in which people get hurt, though not seriously. "... Bum ..."
>is like someone constantly causing near-collisions, but without anyone
>other than the uninvolved bystander (i.e. reader) even noticing.
It's hard for me to say too much about DMMLBiT because my main problem
was the writing style, I just found it rambling and very hard to read
and because of that I found it difficult to get very far into the book
at all. I'd start reading and five minutes later catch myself staring
out of the window..
Mind you, perhaps I should have persevered, Finnegan's Wake is a tough
read but I stuck with it. Didn't understand it, but I stuck with it
:-))))
BC
Therese Wikström
evil...@madasafish.com says...
> "The Gonzo Lager" <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote in message news:m06mvto4fbt1lsb03...@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:09:08 -0000, Orjan Westin wrote:
> >
> > >There's a young Italian woman who's due to give birth to a child just about
> > >now. And then to twins in three months time...
> > Y'know, I read that on the BBC News website. Lordy. I guess that
> > dispels the myth that men don't like to have sex during a woman's
> > pregnancy.
>
> How would he know she was pregnant? At three months
> you're often not showing, and if he managed to get her up
> the duff again, she must still have been menstruating. It's
> possible, even probable, that *she* didn't know about
> the first pregnancy.
Ovulating, not menstruating. Menstruation is the shedding of the
innermost layer of the uterus, and is not (entirely) dependent on
ovulation.
HTH, HAND.
--
Therese Wikström
My hair! He shot my hair!
Princess Vespa, Spaceballs
David Chapman
IANAW, but I thought that you can't ovulate without
menstruating?
Suzi
news:9tj2rg$2tu36$1...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de...
> "Therese Wikström" <there...@home.se> wrote in message
news:MPG.166669dc...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > In article <9tg6cf$2e8nu$6...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de>,
> > evil...@madasafish.com says...
> > > How would he know she was pregnant? At three months
> > > you're often not showing, and if he managed to get her up
> > > the duff again, she must still have been menstruating. It's
> > > possible, even probable, that *she* didn't know about
> > > the first pregnancy.
> >
> > Ovulating, not menstruating. Menstruation is the shedding of the
> > innermost layer of the uterus, and is not (entirely) dependent on
> > ovulation.
>
> IANAW,
That much is obvious it would seem from this and many other
conversations.
> but I thought that you can't ovulate without
> menstruating?
The lining of the womb gets into a "ready state" for the reception of a
fertilised egg each month. This happens whether or not an egg actually
gets released. It is controlled by hormones. Menstruation is the loss of
the lining of the womb once the body has determined that it is not
required for a fertilised egg. This doesn't happen once you are
pregnant.
Ovulation is also controlled by hormones. It is entirely possible that
different levels of different hormones are required for the two separate
things. It is not, therefore, as far as I can tell, totally impossible
that a woman could ovulate while already pregnant if the hormone levels
are "not right". What is very rare is that the fertilised egg actually
managed to implant in a womb that was already in a pregnant state. But I
am not a Medical Doctor... mayhaps one of the many resident medics could
give an opinion on this?
Suzi
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:19:42 -0000):
> IANAW, but I thought that you can't ovulate without menstruating?
You (well, not you, but women) can ovulate without menstruating and
menstruate without ovulating. There are hormonal things at play, after
all, and THERE BE DRAGONS
Ailbhe
--
Ailbhe's homepage: http://ailbhe.ossifrage.net/
* People I know sell craftwork online:
* Custom knot- & bead-work: http://www.gordiandesigns.com/
* Handpainted glassware & canvas: http://designs.ladykayla.org/
David Chapman
> David Chapman <evil...@madasafish.com> wrote in message
> news:9tj2rg$2tu36$1...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de...
> > IANAW,
>
> That much is obvious it would seem from this and many other
> conversations.
Inevitably, since I mark my posts with my real name.
>
> > but I thought that you can't ovulate without
> > menstruating?
>
> The lining of the womb gets into a "ready state" for the reception of a
> fertilised egg each month. This happens whether or not an egg actually
> gets released. It is controlled by hormones. Menstruation is the loss of
> the lining of the womb once the body has determined that it is not
> required for a fertilised egg. This doesn't happen once you are
> pregnant.
OK, I'm up to speed now. It's been a long time since I
needed to know what menstruation is. My contention of
him not knowing she was pregnant still stands, though;
depending how regular the woman in question is and if the
first delivery is ahead of schedule, she still may not have
known herself.
>
> Ovulation is also controlled by hormones. It is entirely possible that
> different levels of different hormones are required for the two separate
> things. It is not, therefore, as far as I can tell, totally impossible
> that a woman could ovulate while already pregnant if the hormone levels
> are "not right".
Well, obviously it's not *totally* impossible, since this Italian
woman *did*.
What is very rare is that the fertilised egg actually
> managed to implant in a womb that was already in a pregnant state.
IIRC, doesn't the lining normally change in some way
when a fertilised egg is present so that another egg
cannot implant?
Daibhid Chienedelh
> In article <4rkgvtcmi2v4qelu7...@4ax.com>, The Gonzo
> Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:28:00 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
> >
> > >The logic is impeccable.
> > I run into a similar situation. I've got two lovely redheaded
> > daughters, born three years apart. And we're constantly asked:
> > "Are they twins?"
> >
> > "No," we say. "They're three years apart."
> >
> > "Are you sure?"
>
> Oddly enough, my sister and I (20 months apart) were never mistaken for
> twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
> quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
> obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
My sister and I (eleven months apart) have never been mistaken for
twins (well, not since we were about six/seven). What usually happens
is much, much worse.
A person I knew from school will come up and say "Hi! It's, um, David,
isn't it?"
I will agree and silently hope he's going to tell me who the heck he
is before I have to admit I don't know.
He will do so, hopefully adding "from the Academy" and I will say "Of
course you are! You know what my memory's like." and pretend I'm any
the wiser.
He'll then ask me what I'm doing. I'll mutter "signing on" or "New
Deal" and add "yourself?" He'll tell me he's got a great job.
Then it comes. He says "You had an older sister, didn't you? How's she
getting on."
I respond "Er, younger sister, actually."
"You sure?"
"Er, yeah. She was in the class below us."
"Oh, right. Er, was her name Isla?" In tones that suggest he now
suspects he may be thinking of the wrong person altogether.
It's not fair! Okay, so mentally she was twenty-one when she was
fourteen, and I'm still fourteen now. Okay, so their clearest memory
of her is probably the time she bawled out the leader of the bullies
that were picking on me. I'm still eleven months older than her!
But it gets worse. Apparently, when she's in the pub with her mates,
people who've known us both all their lives, they occasionally ask
without thinking about her "wee brother". This causes no end of
amusement. For her.
--
Dave
Re-elected for a second glorious term as Official Absentee of EU
Skiffeysoc http://www.ed.ac.uk/~sesoc
"People who doubt things are harmless. No-one ever marched behind the
banner of mild conjecture."
-Andy Hamilton "The News Quiz" 12/10/01
Kimberley Verburg
>I Will Fear No Evil is probably the only book that I have ever
>*actually* thrown across the room in disgust.
_Stranger in a Strange Land_ had me gauging the distance from where I was
sitting and the waste paper basket. It's about as close as I've ever come
to throwing a book, there's still something restraining me from
deliberately damaging one. (I'm not counting the ceremonial jumping up and
down on my high school textbooks at the end of my last year.)
>I'm told Friday (1982) is good too
Unless you're in a book hurling mood, I strongly recommend that you leave
that one alone. Like _I Will Fear No Evil_, there are lots of sexed up
people running around and the whole thing is completely uninteresting. I
read _Friday_ when I was thirteen, decided that Heinlein was a dirty old
man and refused to have anything to do with his other books for a decade
afterwards. Unfortunate, because Heinlein did write some fantastic stuff
in the early years that I'm only now starting to catch up on.
--
Kimberley Verburg k...@lspace.org
New here? Try http://www.lspace.org/
Need more help? Mail the Clue Fairies at afp-...@lspace.org
Aquarion
> Darkmoon <nos...@lunamorena.net> wrote in message news:<191120010023212285%nos...@lunamorena.net>...
>> In article <4rkgvtcmi2v4qelu7...@4ax.com>, The Gonzo
>> Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:28:00 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
>> >
>> > >The logic is impeccable.
>> > I run into a similar situation. I've got two lovely redheaded
>> > daughters, born three years apart. And we're constantly asked:
>> > "Are they twins?"
>> >
>> > "No," we say. "They're three years apart."
>> >
>> > "Are you sure?"
>>
>> Oddly enough, my sister and I (20 months apart) were never mistaken for
>> twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
>> quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
>> obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
>
> My sister and I (eleven months apart) have never been mistaken for
> twins (well, not since we were about six/seven). What usually happens
> is much, much worse.
I have a nasty suspision I am the type of elder brother that is hated
by siblings. You know, the one the teachers all know and will forever
compare you to? The one who was involved in *everything* that wasn't
sport?
Fortunatly most of my old Teachers have left in between them teaching
me and getting the opertunity to teach my smallest brother, but that
is a rant for another day.
--
Aq
Aquarion
> David Chapman <evil...@madasafish.com> wrote
> (on Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:19:42 -0000):
>
>> IANAW, but I thought that you can't ovulate without menstruating?
>
> You (well, not you, but women) can ovulate without menstruating and
> menstruate without ovulating. There are hormonal things at play, after
> all, and THERE BE DRAGONS
>
*Runs screaming*
momo
> Darkmoon <nos...@lunamorena.net> wrote in message news:<191120010023212285%nos...@lunamorena.net>...
> > In article <4rkgvtcmi2v4qelu7...@4ax.com>, The Gonzo
> > Lager <gonzo...@homey.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 22:28:00 +0000, Terry Pratchett wrote:
> > >
> > > >The logic is impeccable.
> > > I run into a similar situation. I've got two lovely redheaded
> > > daughters, born three years apart. And we're constantly asked:
> > > "Are they twins?"
> > >
> > > "No," we say. "They're three years apart."
> > >
> > > "Are you sure?"
> >
> > Oddly enough, my sister and I (20 months apart) were never mistaken for
> > twins... but were constantly being mistaken for one another. I'm not
> > quite sure how that works... people are bright enough to see that we're
> > obviously not identical, but still couldn't tell us apart.
>
> My sister and I (eleven months apart) have never been mistaken for
> twins (well, not since we were about six/seven). What usually happens
> is much, much worse.
>
Oh, I know, I know. I sympathize, really. I am the older one
of two twins, by luck more than anything, but a cruel joke has
made me a good 10 cm shorter than her. So when we went to the
cinema to watch a movie only to be seen by 16-year-olds and up,
she made it past all ticket counters without a problem, but I got
a funny look and the clerk asked "Hey, are you 12 yet", to my shame
and her amusement.
When I show pictures to pals in Japan, people point at her and my
19-year-old sister and assume that they are the twins. When I tell
them that one of them is mine, I get to hear endearing names like
"Liar".... *sigh* When I add that I am the senior one, they almost
faint. Lets me feel like a wittle.
Just makes you wonder whether nature reads Discworld.
Mata ne,
Momo
April Goodwin-Smith
>
> "Suzi" wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Well, obviously it's not *totally* impossible, since this
> Italian woman *did*.
>
> > What is very rare is that the fertilised egg actually
> > managed to implant in a womb that was already in a
> > pregnant state.
>
> IIRC, doesn't the lining normally change in some way
> when a fertilised egg is present so that another egg
> cannot implant?
>
Yes. In broad terms, that's the mechanism that the pill
relies on to prevent pregnancy. It manipulates the woman's
hormone levels so that the body thinks it is pregnant,
which is thus supposed to both suppress ovulation and
prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.
Well, I feel secure now, I can tell you.
April.
--
"Things that try to look like things often do look more
like things than things. Well known fact."
Esmerelda Weatherwax (Pratchett 1988)
The Gonzo Lager
>What is very rare is that the fertilised egg actually
>managed to implant in a womb that was already in a pregnant state. But I
>am not a Medical Doctor... mayhaps one of the many resident medics could
>give an opinion on this?
My limited medical training (i.e., skimming three episodes of "ER"
with the sound turned down) would suggest that this is a
one-in-a-million thing. And we all know how often those happen. ;)
The Gonz'
flesh_eating_dragon
> You (well, not you, but women) can ovulate without menstruating and
> menstruate without ovulating. There are hormonal things at play, after
> all, and THERE BE DRAGONS
Eh? What do I have to do with this?
<puzzled>
eight foot tall flesh-eating hormonal thing^W^Wdragon
flesh_eating_dragon
> over the top it's just divine. And the stroke of genius lies in the
> fact that the reader sees everything through the protagonist's eyes,
> can clearly understand at all times what is really going on, and yet
> the heroine never does.
Something like this was the brief from the creative writing class in
which I wrote <http://web.netyp.com/member/dragon/create_heat.htm>.
Specifically, it was to be a story in which the protagonist does not
realise that the other character does not love them.
Adrian.
Nanny Ogg
<evil...@madasafish.com> writes:
>"Lena Williams" <le...@lakesedge.org> wrote:
>> The only book I've hurled is Bridget Jones' Diary.
>
>Books thrown across room - 1 (v.g.)
I'm so glad I didn't, as originally planned, eat lunch while reading this. It
saves me all the trouble of having to bill you for a new keyboard.
>Are there really
>> women out there who are that completely and utterly pathetic?
I truly hope not. Personally, I think that the whole point of BJD is to make
pathetic people feel better about being pathetic - after all, compared to BJD
they can feel like intelligent, together people.
>There are always people out there with low self-esteem.
>But I don't think jumping on their faces wearing hobnailed
>boots improves their situation any, do you?
<g> I'm tempted to save this for a .sig quote.......... Did it make anyone
else think of the .sig quote someone else on here (bugger, can't think who)
has, saying that the only reason people don't think you can kill a vampire by
shoving its head up its arse is because nobody's ever tried it?
All the best,
Sarah
--
`If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you'll be
taller than everyone else.' Kipling and _I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue_
`Unfortunately Real Life lacks a decent tourist information service' Adrian
Morgan
Nanny Ogg
<evil...@madasafish.com> writes:
>How would he know she was pregnant? At three months
>you're often not showing, and if he managed to get her up
>the duff again, she must still have been menstruating.
Doesn't follow at all. What's actually important is that she was still
ovulating. It seems she flukishly ovulated three months into the pregnancy,
but there's no reason to believe from this that she also ovulated in her first
and second month. (Weird enough for it to happen once, quite frankly.) Even
if she did, she wouldn't necessarily have menstruated following those
ovulations, as her pregnancy would have been producing lots of progestagen and
so there probably wouldn't actually have been much of a dip in the progestagen
levels two weeks after ovulation.
BTW, I was about to change the title on this, as is my usual practice when the
subject veers too far away from the original. Then I noticed what the title
actually _was_, and decided it just had to stay. Even on afp, it's not that
often that you get titles that are so gloriously inappropriate for the subject
matter. ;-)
Chris Share
>In article <9tepnd$vn18$2...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de>, "David Chapman"
><evil...@madasafish.com> writes:
>>There are always people out there with low self-esteem.
>>But I don't think jumping on their faces wearing hobnailed
>>boots improves their situation any, do you?
>
><g> I'm tempted to save this for a .sig quote.......... Did it make anyone
>else think of the .sig quote someone else on here (bugger, can't think who)
>has, saying that the only reason people don't think you can kill a vampire by
>shoving its head up its arse is because nobody's ever tried it?
>
>All the best,
>
>Sarah
Not really, but now you mention it... :)
And it's from a Tom Holt book... My Hero IIRC.
chris
Suzi
news:3BFDDFE...@telusplanet.net...
[Snip]
> Yes. In broad terms, that's the mechanism that the pill
> relies on to prevent pregnancy. It manipulates the woman's
> hormone levels so that the body thinks it is pregnant,
> which is thus supposed to both suppress ovulation and
> prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.
>
> Well, I feel secure now, I can tell you.
Now you know why it's only xx% effective, not only do some women forget
to take it from time to time but just very occasionally the body isn't
co-operating even when you do :-)
Suzi
Orjan Westin
> >
> >
> > IIRC, doesn't the lining normally change in some way
> > when a fertilised egg is present so that another egg
> > cannot implant?
> >
>
> Yes. In broad terms, that's the mechanism that the pill
> relies on to prevent pregnancy. It manipulates the woman's
> hormone levels so that the body thinks it is pregnant,
> which is thus supposed to both suppress ovulation and
> prevent implantation of a fertilized egg.
What amazes doctors most in this case is that she hasn't had any interesting
hormonal treatment. Usually when these things happen, the mother has been
given a mixture of hormones that doesn't quite work as intended. To have it
happen without interference is, as the Gonz says, a one in a million. It's
a bit more common among bonobos, I understand.
> Well, I feel secure now, I can tell you.
As has been said before - abstention and surgical sterilisation are the only
safe preventatives.
Orjan
Peter Ellis
>
>As has been said before - abstention and surgical sterilisation are the only
>safe preventatives.
There's a non-zero failure rate for surgical sterilisation.
And, if the Gospels are to be believed, from abstention also, though I think
we can discount that one as a rounding error.
Death is also a pretty good preventative, though come to think of it
there's a potential rounding error there as well. The same one, even.
Peter
mule
<Pine.SOL.4.33.01112...@green.csi.cam.ac.uk>...
> Death is also a pretty good preventative, though come to think of it
> there's a potential rounding error there as well. The same one, even.
There's also a nine month lag in effectiveness.
mule
--
"jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule"
Bob Dylan
David Chapman
I beg to differ; The Pill *is* 100% effective when
properly employed. However, the success rate is
reduced as most women don't grip it tightly between
the knees.
Orjan Westin
>
> I beg to differ; The Pill *is* 100% effective when
> properly employed. However, the success rate is
> reduced as most women don't grip it tightly between
> the knees.
David, may I suggest a refresher course in human anatomy and Kama Sutra?
It's amazing what you can do if you try, really.
Orjan
Suzi
news:slrn9vr8tq...@sacrifice.bedlam.bogus...
[Snip]
> I have a nasty suspision I am the type of elder brother that is hated
> by siblings. You know, the one the teachers all know and will forever
> compare you to? The one who was involved in *everything* that wasn't
> sport?
Well - join the club <g>... I _know_ I was certainly that sort of Big
Sister :-)
(Oh, and up until I had my cycle accident, this _included_ certain
sports too <g>)
> Fortunatly most of my old Teachers have left in between them teaching
> me and getting the opertunity to teach my smallest brother, but that
> is a rant for another day.
My sister wasn't quite so fortunate... as a rule she was entering the
school at the bottom end as I was leaving school at the top end. She did
not like being referred to as "Suzi's [1] little sister" all the way
through Junior and Middle schools.
Suzi
[1] That wasn't the name that was used, but it's the one I use now
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:48:09 +0100):
> It's about as close as I've ever come to throwing a book, there's
> still something restraining me from deliberately damaging one. (I'm
> not counting the ceremonial jumping up and down on my high school
> textbooks at the end of my last year.)
Aha! Another reason that school uniforms are a good thing!
I'll, ah, make that a little clearer, shall I?
I was able to sublimate my hatred of the educational system into my
uniform, instead of into my books, and therefore ritually disembowelled
a bunch of wool and cotton instead of some really quite useful textbooks
when I left behind me forevermore those dark and disempowering
doors. Some of my textbooks are still in use as reference books in
various parts of my family.
Melody S-K
"David Chapman" <evil...@madasafish.com> wrote in message
news:9tlg04$3bn1k$4...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de...
LOL ...I was about to jump on you from a great height ,
muttering and mumbling
about my sister in law who got pregnant whilst taking the
pill ....and then I read
the next bit
;o)
Melody
--
Hey, if you cut off your foot, you wouldn't keep putting it
in your mouth, but your body wouldn't be the same, would it?
David Chapman
> David Chapman <evil...@madasafish.com> wrote in message
> news:9tlg04$3bn1k$4...@ID-93395.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > I beg to differ; The Pill *is* 100% effective when
> > properly employed. However, the success rate is
> > reduced as most women don't grip it tightly between
> > the knees.
>
> David, may I suggest a refresher course in human anatomy and Kama Sutra?
I'll stick to the Korma Sutra - 101 exotic ways to make
curry.
> It's amazing what you can do if you try, really.
Of that I have no doubt.