[R] The Nobbs coat of arms
Tom Saul
Now, come on. You all must have read that....
Hands up all who haven't.
Ah, right. Ok, you at the back there, just ignore this thread for a while,
ok?
Now that's over with:
P103 of the Corgi paperback: "The shield was red and green; there was a
white chevron with five apples on it.
Quite what they had to do with warfare was unclear."
After reading the above sentences and concentrating very hard on the coat of
arms printed at the start of the book,
a suspicion began to tickle at the back of my brain.
What do these apples have to do with the Nobbs' clan or Nobby in particular.
What connection do they have with warfare?
The only explanation I could come up with was the this; The chevron is used
(horizontally) on UK roadsigns to indicate a sharp curve in the road.
This might be taken as a 'warning'. The apples could be a reference to the
phrase "How do you like *them* apples?". Hence the 'warning' about
Nobby's delight in kicking a 'soft target', and mentioning the above phrase.
Considering the amount of crossword clues and puns in FoC's coats of arms,
that was the only deduction I could make about the Nobbs coat.
Anyone else have a better idea of what it could mean?
Is it just something to set AFPers scratching their heads and going slightly
insane trying to work it out, or is there some logic behind it?
Tom, going slightly insane!!!!!
sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk
lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk (Tom Saul) wrote:
> [Very unlikely possible spoiler for FoC]
>
>
>
>
> Now, come on. You all must have read that....
>
>
>
>
>
> Hands up all who haven't.
>
>
>
>
> Ah, right. Ok, you at the back there, just ignore this
thread for a
> while,
> ok?
>
>
> Now that's over with:
>
> P103 of the Corgi paperback: "The shield was red and green;
there was a
> white chevron with five apples on it.
<snip>
> What do these apples have to do with the Nobbs' clan or
Nobby in
> particular.
> What connection do they have with warfare?
> The only explanation I could come up with was the this; The
chevron is
> used
> (horizontally) on UK roadsigns to indicate a sharp curve in
the road.
> This might be taken as a 'warning'. The apples could be a
reference to
> the
> phrase "How do you like *them* apples?". Hence the
'warning' about
> Nobby's delight in kicking a 'soft target', and mentioning
the above
> phrase.
Far too subtle for an heraldic punster such as I. I would
point you, perhaps, into the area of thinking about Nobby's
rank in the Watch and what symbol many armed forces used to
demonstrate that rank and then...apples? French is a language
used for a lot of heraldic description. Maybe apples work out
as a pune in French..? Heralds love punes.
SPB ;-)
John Blatherwick
I don't know how this fits in, but i thought you'd like to know
MJB
<sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8ub0ud$b98$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk...
Tom Saul
John Blatherwick wrote:
> <sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote
> > lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk (Tom Saul) wrote:
> >
> > > [Very unlikely possible spoiler for FoC]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now, come on. You all must have read that....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hands up all who haven't.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ah, right. Ok, you at the back there, just ignore this
> > thread for a
> > > while,
> > > ok?
> > >
> > >
> > > Now that's over with:
> > >
<snip badly-formatted text about how apples and a chevron relate to de
Nobbs>
> >
> > Far too subtle for an heraldic punster such as I. I would
> > point you, perhaps, into the area of thinking about Nobby's
> > rank in the Watch and what symbol many armed forces used to
> > demonstrate that rank and then...apples? French is a language
> > used for a lot of heraldic description. Maybe apples work out
> > as a pune in French..? Heralds love punes.
>
> If it's any help, the French for apple is "pomme"
> I don't know how this fits in, but i thought you'd like to know
I knew that one, my French is bad.....but not *that* bad ;-)
I also know about the chevron relating to Nobby's rank (cheers Stephen<g>)
I 'm still trying to work out the pune. Perhaps I need my mind to be even
more warped
than it already is...or maybe a few drinks would help...
Tom.
Sylvain Chambon
<lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>John Blatherwick wrote:
>> <sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote
>> > Far too subtle for an heraldic punster such as I. I would point
>> > you, perhaps, into the area of thinking about Nobby's rank in the
>> > Watch and what symbol many armed forces used to demonstrate that
>> > rank and then...apples? French is a language used for a lot of
>> > heraldic description. Maybe apples work out as a pune in
>> > French..? Heralds love punes.
>>
>> If it's any help, the French for apple is "pomme" I don't know how
>> this fits in, but i thought you'd like to know
>
>I knew that one, my French is bad.....but not *that* bad ;-) I also
>know about the chevron relating to Nobby's rank (cheers Stephen<g>)
>I'm still trying to work out the pune. Perhaps I need my mind to be
>even more warped than it already is...or maybe a few drinks would
>help...
If that helps, this French-speaker is utterly unable to find a pun
with chevrons and apples... Doesn't mean there isn't one, though.
The only connection I can find with chevrons (except the rank thing)
is the car maker Citroen, and the only ones I can find about apples
are the computer company and the current president's 1995 campaign's
logo ("eat apples" has become a common joke here when referring to
Chirac's policy).
But somehow, I doubt pTerry was referring to French politics :-)
Sylvain.
--
Sylvain Chambon
sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<slrn90nimm.k...@uberwald.se.room33.com>,
sgpch...@yahoo.com (Sylvain Chambon) wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:46:50 -0000, Tom Saul
> <lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >John Blatherwick wrote:
> >> <sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote
> >> > Far too subtle for an heraldic punster such as I. I
would point
> >> > you, perhaps, into the area of thinking about Nobby's
rank in the
> >> > Watch and what symbol many armed forces used to
demonstrate that
> >> > rank and then...apples? French is a language used for
a lot of
> >> > heraldic description. Maybe apples work out as a pune
in
> >> > French..? Heralds love punes.
<snip>
> If that helps, this French-speaker is utterly unable to
find a pun
> with chevrons and apples... Doesn't mean there isn't one,
though.
>
> The only connection I can find with chevrons (except the
rank thing)
> is the car maker Citroen, and the only ones I can find
about apples
> are the computer company and the current president's 1995
campaign's
> logo ("eat apples" has become a common joke here when
referring to
> Chirac's policy).
*sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
chevrons on his or her sleeve.
2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
only usage of the word 'pomme'.
Stephen B.
Richard Bos
> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>
> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
A Pom is a Limey. I still don't get it. It isn't something to do with
UKian slang, is it?
Richard
Jacqui
> *sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
>
> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>
> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
Jac
Jacqui
Specifically, used in Heraldry and to describe things like "cross-pommé"
- a cross with a ball at each end, rather akin to a staff with a...
Jac
Jonathan Ellis
Jacqui wrote in message <3A0BEC12...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk>...
>sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
>> *sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
>>
>> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
>> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>>
>> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
>> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
>
>Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
pro-royalist of all the Watch (well, he's the one that plays the King in the
re-enactment), and the Roundheads were the *anti*-royalists in real life...
On the other hand, this reference sounds like it's too baconian even for
Pterry, and is probably just a coincidence.
Jonathan.
Jonathan Ellis
Uwe Milde wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:34:14 -0000, Jonathan Ellis wrote:
>
>>Jacqui wrote in message <3A0BEC12...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk>...
>>>sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>> *sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
>>>> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>
>Companion.
>
>>>> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
>>>> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
>>>
>>>Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
>> Which is a little ironic, considering that Nobby is seemingly the
most
>
>'nuff said.
>
>>re-enactment), and the Roundheads were the *anti*-royalists in real
life...
>
>that's a bit too ...unusual... to work as a joke.
The nickname given to the followers of Parliament against the King, in
the civil war of 1642-49 (King Charles II's supporters were called the
"Cavaliers": the "Roundhead" nickname for the supporters of Parliament was
derived from the hairstyle - short and close-cropped.) As that civil war
actually got rid of the monarchy for a while (parallels have already been
drawn between Old Stoneface Vimes, who got rid of the A-M monarchy, and
Oliver Cromwell, who led Parliament and ruled the country for several
years), it's quite possible that there could be another reference there. But
if it has to come through a more obscure meaning of a French word, I suspect
it's merely a coincidence.
Jonathan.
Martyn Clapham
<jona...@franz-liszt.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>Jacqui wrote in message <3A0BEC12...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk>...
>>sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> *sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
>>>
>>> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
>>> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>>>
>>> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
>>
>>Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
>Pterry, and is probably just a coincidence.
One small point.
What I've read of the thread so far and the copyright page of the book
implies that Stephen did the shields for Terry.
What I don't know of course is how detailed the request was.
Mart.
--
Everything you wanted to know about afp, but were afraid to ask, is at
http://www.lspace.org/ Having fun on afp from 1996
My own website is http://www.mclapham.demon.co.uk/index.htm
Afpurity 49% old test, 37% new test. Afpengaged to Mary Messall.
Richard Eney
Martyn Clapham <mar...@mclapham.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Jonathan Ellis<jona...@franz-liszt.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>>Jacqui wrote
>>>
>>>> *sigh* OK, let me be a little more obvious.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
>>>> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>>>>
>>>> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
>>>> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
>>>
>>>Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
>> Which is a little ironic, considering that Nobby is seemingly the
>>most pro-royalist of all the Watch (well, he's the one that plays the
>>King in the re-enactment), and the Roundheads were the *anti*-royalists
>>in real life... On the other hand, this reference sounds like it's too
>>baconian even for Pterry, and is probably just a coincidence.
>
>One small point.
>
>What I've read of the thread so far and the copyright page of the book
>implies that Stephen did the shields for Terry.
>
>What I don't know of course is how detailed the request was.
They've been working together for some time on various things and Terry
seems to oversee the spinoffs very closely. I think he would pay very
close attention to what was actually going into a book published as "by
Terry Pratchett". Stephen has explained the pun (Thanks, I hadn't gotten
it either, despite four years of high-school French umpty years ago).
Nobby's coat of arms is pretty obviously designed to indicate him and no
one else - it's a chevon (Corporal) with apples on/with knobs on/ knobby
(Nobby).
Which might clear up another mystery: whether or not Terry expected us to
believe that Nobby really was descended of the Earl of Ankh. If the coat
of arms so specifically indicates him and not an ancestor, it seems
unlikely. And I say this with great regret, because it's entirely
possible that Nobby is actually, though not provably, so descended, and I
like the idea that he really is. Even if we were supposed to catch the
pun and understand that he wasn't.
Phooey.
=Tamar
elfin
> Uwe Milde wrote in message ...
> >
> > suspicion that that's a bit too ...unusual... to work as a joke.
> The nickname given to the followers of Parliament against
> the King, in the civil war of 1642-49 (King Charles II's
> supporters were called the "Cavaliers": the "Roundhead"
> nickname for the supporters of Parliament was derived
> from the hairstyle - short and close-cropped.) As that civil
> war actually got rid of the monarchy for a while (parallels
> have already been drawn between Old Stoneface Vimes,
> who got rid of the A-M monarchy, and Oliver Cromwell, who
> led Parliament and ruled the country for several years), it's
> quite possible that there could be another reference there.
Mainly correct Jonathon, but if I might clarify a few points.
The name Roundhead might not have been derived from the hairstyles, but
from the hats they wore.
You say in 'the civil war'!! Now come on everyone knows it's the Isle of
Wight's war.... Seriously though, it was specifically the English Civil
War. Being the only one, it might not be quite so unusual.
elfin
--
You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever.
New to afp? need help? then contact afp-...@lspace.org
Hamster help, OE pages & more at http://www.elfden.co.uk/
esmi
wrote...
> Jacqui wrote
> >Pommé is a knob, or ball. Pommer - to come to a round head.
> Which is a little ironic, considering that Nobby is seemingly the most
> pro-royalist of all the Watch (well, he's the one that plays the King in the
> re-enactment), and the Roundheads were the *anti*-royalists in real life...
> On the other hand, this reference sounds like it's too baconian even for
> Pterry, and is probably just a coincidence.
Almost certainly a coincidence.
I mean...the man's name is Nobbs, for Pete's sake!
Added to which, the old fashioned, lower class, slang for a member of the
gentry is "a nob". Given this latter meaning, I'd like to think that one
of Nobby's family actually designed the coat of arms in the first place -
working class bigotry and all. *grin*
esmi
--
* "2002: A Discworld Odyssey" * The Discworld Convention *
* Hanover International, Hinckley * August 16th-19th, 2002 *
* Web: http://www.dwcon.org/ * Email: in...@dwcon.org *
esmi
> Jonathan Ellis wrote
[reformatted a little to make for a simpler followup]
> > The nickname given to the followers of Parliament against
> > the King, in the civil war of 1642-49 (King Charles II's
> > supporters were called the "Cavaliers": the "Roundhead"
> > nickname for the supporters of Parliament was derived
> > from the hairstyle - short and close-cropped.)
>
> Mainly correct Jonathon, but if I might clarify a few points.
Mainly? *Mainly*?! Since when were the Roundhead soldiers fighting
against Charles II? He was only a stripling Prince of Wales in the Civil
War. His father, King Charles I, was fighting against the Parliamentarian
forces.
For the non-UKians amongst us, Charles I lost, was executed and, for a
while, we had a Protector (Oliver Cromwell) rather than a monarch.
Charles II only regained his throne after Cromwell's peaceful death years
later.
> The name Roundhead might not have been derived from the hairstyles, but
> from the hats they wore.
Theories vary on this one though I, personally, feel that the "Haircut
Theory" is a little shaky. It depends on the premise that all the
Royalist soldiers had the long flowing locks of their commanders whilst
evidence suggests that the common soldier would have had short hair -
irrespective of which side he fought upon. Nor were Parliament's
supporters lacking in the hirsute department. Oliver Cromwell himself
seems to have had long-ish hair (at least over his collar) rather than
the short-cropped stereotypical cut.
The Parliamentarian army does seem to have had a large number of soldiers
who wore rounded metal hats or helmets compared to the Royalist soldiers
who seemed to have worn all manner of styles. It is possible that the
name "Roundhead" derives from this.
> > As that civil
> > war actually got rid of the monarchy for a while (parallels
> > have already been drawn between Old Stoneface Vimes,
> > who got rid of the A-M monarchy, and Oliver Cromwell, who
> > led Parliament and ruled the country for several years), it's
> > quite possible that there could be another reference there.
Interesting idea but it doesn't quite fit as the leader of the
Parliamentarian army became the country's ruler whilst Old Stoneface
didn't rule A-M, IIRC. Also Stoneface wasn't exactly revered for his
actions whilst Cromwell is still considered to have been, all in all, a
decent bloke.
Richard Eney
Richard Bos <in...@hoekstra-uitgeverij.nl> wrote:
>sbr...@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
>
>> 1. Nobby is a *corporal* - in most armies, a corporal wears
>> chevrons on his or her sleeve.
>>
>> 2.'pomme' is indeed French for apple. But that is not the
>> only usage of the word 'pomme'.
>
>UKian slang, is it?
A Pom isn't just a Limey, it's an upperclass Limey. So there's a possible
multiple pun: apple = pomme = knob (Nobby) = Nob = upperclass/Noble
=Tamar
Jonathan Ellis
esmi wrote in message ...
>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:23:59 GMT el...@lspace.org wrote...
>> Jonathan Ellis wrote
>
>[reformatted a little to make for a simpler followup]
>
>> > The nickname given to the followers of Parliament against
>> > the King, in the civil war of 1642-49 (King Charles II's
>> > supporters were called the "Cavaliers": the "Roundhead"
>> > nickname for the supporters of Parliament was derived
>> > from the hairstyle - short and close-cropped.)
>>
>
>Mainly? *Mainly*?! Since when were the Roundhead soldiers fighting
>against Charles II? He was only a stripling Prince of Wales in the Civil
>War. His father, King Charles I, was fighting against the Parliamentarian
>forces.
Sorry, typo. I *knew* which Charles it was. Finger must have slipped.
>> > As that civil
>> > war actually got rid of the monarchy for a while (parallels
>> > have already been drawn between Old Stoneface Vimes,
>> > who got rid of the A-M monarchy, and Oliver Cromwell, who
>> > led Parliament and ruled the country for several years), it's
>> > quite possible that there could be another reference there.
>
>Interesting idea but it doesn't quite fit as the leader of the
>Parliamentarian army became the country's ruler whilst Old Stoneface
>didn't rule A-M, IIRC.
Did, actually. For a few months. Until he got chopped up and buried in
five graves. (His army's nickname of "Ironheads" is certainly an annotatable
reference for Cromwell's "Ironsides", which was *their* alternative
nickname, and it's been done already.)
> Also Stoneface wasn't exactly revered for his
>actions whilst Cromwell is still considered to have been, all in all, a
>decent bloke.
Not by all. Certainly not in Ireland. And not by *everyone* in Britain
either. Otherwise why would the monarchy have ever come back?
Mind you, the fact that the monarchy didn't come back in A-M makes it
seem more like Rome, where a republic was indeed founded after the death of
the last person to bear the title of "King", and ran for several hundred
years. But I've commented on that similarity before elsewhere, including
comparing the Brutuses (Lucius, who killed the last King of Rome, and his
descendant Marcus Brutus who was prepared to kill someone who he thought was
trying to become a king) with the Vimeses ("Old Stoneface"
Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes who killed the last king of A-M, and his
descendant Sam Vimes who would happily take an axe to the *next* king.)
Jonathan.
Aaron Dick
esmi <es...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.14768aa5d41c5d3d989770@elfden...
> Interesting idea but it doesn't quite fit as the leader of the
> Parliamentarian army became the country's ruler whilst Old Stoneface
> didn't rule A-M, IIRC. Also Stoneface wasn't exactly revered for his
> actions whilst Cromwell is still considered to have been, all in all, a
> decent bloke.
Actually, Vimes gets upset with Nobby playing the king in FoC, asks who
plays his descenedant, is told no-one and responds:
"Losing? Vime's Ironheads _won._ He ruled the city for six months."
PG 100
And with the 'Ironheads'/'Roundheads' reference, I'd say their pretty close.
--
Mr Aaron Dick, DiHI (Raven)
Matt
> Interesting idea but it doesn't quite fit as the leader of the
> Parliamentarian army became the country's ruler whilst Old Stoneface
> didn't rule A-M, IIRC. Also Stoneface wasn't exactly revered for his
> actions whilst Cromwell is still considered to have been, all in all, a
> decent bloke.
>
listen to
the monty python song to find out more.
Matt
Andy Davison
Ellis" <jona...@franz-liszt.freeserve.co.uk> said ...
> Not by all. Certainly not in Ireland. And not by *everyone* in Britain
> either. Otherwise why would the monarchy have ever come back?
I suspect the monarchy came back because people weren't that impressed with
Oliver's son Richard. Plus all the puritan stuff meant people weren't
having the fun they once had.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Andy Davison
said ...
> A Pom isn't just a Limey, it's an upperclass Limey. So there's a possible
> multiple pun: apple = pomme = knob (Nobby) = Nob = upperclass/Noble
Well, when it comes to slang pom and limey aren't UKian but the way other
people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian. I think some of
us are trying to read too much into Discworld books.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Jens Ayton
Far be it from me to expend 20p, but Monty Python have a good (well...
interesting) summary in the form of the Oliver Cromwell Song
<http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/shakespeareinlove/16/77.html>. As
pointed out, though, it's not much of a read if you haven't heard it. Go
and buy _Monty Python Sings_. ;-)
--
Jens Ayton
You're merely imagining my presence.
Jens Ayton
>
> Which might clear up another mystery: whether or not Terry expected us to
> believe that Nobby really was descended of the Earl of Ankh. If the coat
> of arms so specifically indicates him and not an ancestor, it seems
> unlikely.
Dunno 'bout that; it's not as though chevrons are unusual in heraldry.
Think of it as a pune on the side of Pterry and/or Stephen rather than
Dragon... I personally think that Pterry was quite deliberately in
making Nobby's status ambiguous, what with the statement that _of
course_ it wasn't true (could be a guess, could be that Dragon had said
as much to the person in question[1]) vs. the tiara, coronet etc. Nobby
hadn't told them about (may or may not be significant depending on
whether he stole them or his thinking of them implies that this is not
the case).
[1] Don't have the book to hand[2], I'm afraid.
[2] Or foot, natch. Oook.
Richard Eney
Andy Davison <andy.d...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>dic...@Radix.Net (Richard Eney) said ...
>> A Pom isn't just a Limey, it's an upperclass Limey. So there's
>> a possible multiple pun: apple = pomme = knob (Nobby) = Nob =
>> upperclass/Noble
>
>Well, when it comes to slang pom and limey aren't UKian but the way other
>people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian. I think some of
>us are trying to read too much into Discworld books.
Beg to differ with you, guv. I never heard or read the word "pom" except
in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
And as far as reading too much in - sbriggs himself told us that was the
pun, 'cos none of us got it.
=Tamar
Andy Davison
message<8ukq0l$fol$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,dic...@Radix.Net (Richard Eney)
said ...
> Beg to differ with you, guv. I never heard or read the word "pom" except
> in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
> Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
The Aussies usually precede the word 'pom' with the word 'whingeing'
Definitely Aussie slang.
--
Andy Davison
andy.d...@btinternet.com
Jonathan Ellis
Andy Davison wrote in message <317470109...@btinternet.com>...
Australian greeting to English cricketers on the pitch: "G'day ya Pommie
bastard." In recent years this has been too often followed, a couple of
overs later, by "F*** off ya Pommie bastard"...
Jonathan.
Aaron Dick
Richard Eney <dic...@Radix.Net> wrote in message
news:8ukq0l$fol$1...@saltmine.radix.net...
> In article <316542109...@btinternet.com>,
> Andy Davison <andy.d...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >Well, when it comes to slang pom and limey aren't UKian but the way other
> >people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian. I think some
of
> >us are trying to read too much into Discworld books.
>
> in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
> Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
Ask any New Zealander if they now any Poms, they'll more than likely tell
that they do indeed know some English people. It may be due to us convicts
and whale-killers seeing all english as Aristocrats, given your home country
evidence.
John Winters
Richard Eney <dic...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>In article <316542109...@btinternet.com>,
>Andy Davison <andy.d...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> A Pom isn't just a Limey, it's an upperclass Limey. So there's
>>> a possible multiple pun: apple = pomme = knob (Nobby) = Nob =
>>> upperclass/Noble
>>
>>people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian. I think some of
>>us are trying to read too much into Discworld books.
>
>Beg to differ with you, guv. I never heard or read the word "pom" except
>in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
>some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
>correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
>Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
>unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
The word Pom is an XXXXian expression, derived from "Prisoner Of his
Majesty". Presumably therefore they really applied it to fresh XXXXians,
but it's come to mean Brits.
Limey too refers to Brits and derives from the fact that crews in the
British navy were issued with limes to prevent scurvy.
John
--
John Winters. Wallingford, Oxon, England.
The Linux Emporium - the source for Linux CDs in the UK
See http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/
Tom Saul
<snips>
> They've been working together for some time on various things and Terry
> seems to oversee the spinoffs very closely. I think he would pay very
> close attention to what was actually going into a book published as "by
> Terry Pratchett". Stephen has explained the pun (Thanks, I hadn't gotten
> it either, despite four years of high-school French umpty years ago).
> Nobby's coat of arms is pretty obviously designed to indicate him and no
> one else - it's a chevon (Corporal) with apples on/with knobs on/ knobby
> (Nobby).
I finally got it after a combination of a few threads on here, including the
kind assistance of
The Esteemed Herald Mr Briggs, and clouting myself about the head with a
Clue-on-a-stick :-)
Now, of course I just have to reach for my Latin Dicrionary[1] to look up
the motto "Capite Omnia".
I get the feeling I should know this, but I just can't get the translation.
Damned annoying when you think
you know something, can feel the knowledge lurking at the back of your mind,
but cant recall it properly.
However, I do think it's probably a Nobby or Nooby-esque reference.
> Which might clear up another mystery: whether or not Terry expected us to
> believe that Nobby really was descended of the Earl of Ankh. If the coat
> of arms so specifically indicates him and not an ancestor, it seems
> unlikely. And I say this with great regret, because it's entirely
> possible that Nobby is actually, though not provably, so descended, and I
> like the idea that he really is. Even if we were supposed to catch the
> pun and understand that he wasn't.
It'd certainly be interesting to find out several books later that what the
Dragon
thought he made up was actually true. Perhaps Nobby isn't the Earl of Ankh,
but
there is a connection:
[SPECULATION]
The first Earl of Ankh had a chambermaid who was indecently
assaulted[2] by someone who was arrested by a previous Nobbs.
Y'know, that's almost convoluted enough to work ;-)
[1] In this carrier-bag I have to hand...
[2] Just a thought...if you can have 'indecent assault' then what
would be 'decent assault'? Assault by consent? Assault by appointment?.....
Tom.
Catrin Alun
news:8un092$ebe$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Now, of course I just have to reach for my Latin Dicrionary[1]
> [1] In this carrier-bag I have to hand...
Something doesn't look right here. I'm sure this joke has a
mistake in it. Why can't I remember the origin? Oh, well. That's
another half-hour I'm going to waste in lspace.org. Sigh.
Catrin
NSPOC Officer No.1
ingenious paradox
<snip - well sorry Stephen but those apples were just too obscure for
me>
>Now, of course I just have to reach for my Latin Dicrionary[1] to look up
>the motto "Capite Omnia".
All in the head?
(guessing. we nevvu dun latin)
Logical bonds
Julie
--
A good scientific approach is to say 'This is what I think happened. I dare
you to find a better explanation' and then hope that no-one does.
(Kevin on afp)
Mary Messall
> Tom Saul <lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8un092$ebe$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > [1] In this carrier-bag I have to hand...
> <slash>
> Something doesn't look right here. I'm sure this joke has a
> mistake in it. Why can't I remember the origin? Oh, well. That's
> another half-hour I'm going to waste in lspace.org. Sigh.
That's because he means "on this carrier bag" not *in*. HTH. HAND
-Mary (what kind of shop prints Latin dictionaries on carrier bags?)
--
http://www.crosswinds.net/~mmessall/
"There's always a little dirt, or infinity, or something."
-Richard Feynman
David Underdown
> in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
> Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
>
class accent?
David
Chris
Winters), back on 12 Nov 2000 18:06:43 -0000, went ahead and said:
<massive snippage>
>The word Pom is an XXXXian expression, derived from "Prisoner Of his
>Majesty". Presumably therefore they really applied it to fresh XXXXians,
>but it's come to mean Brits.
And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
--
"Way-hey-hey, it's just an ordinary day,
And it's all your state of mind.
At the end of the day, you've just got to say,
It's all right.
I've got a smile on my face,
And I've got four walls around me."
"Ordinary Day," _Rant and Roar_, Great Big Sea
Chris
<lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk>, back on Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:15:41
-0000, went ahead and said:
>Now, of course I just have to reach for my Latin Dicrionary[1] to look up
>the motto "Capite Omnia".
>I get the feeling I should know this, but I just can't get the translation.
>Damned annoying when you think
>you know something, can feel the knowledge lurking at the back of your mind,
>but cant recall it properly.
>However, I do think it's probably a Nobby or Nooby-esque reference.
My Latin dictionary (and grammer) gives me "Take everything" (in the
plural, not the singular). I think the joke is that it looks at first
glance like "Head of everything." Taking us back to the
knob/nobby/head reference again.
Victoria Martin
On 11 Nov 2000, Richard Eney wrote:
> In article <316542109...@btinternet.com>,
> Andy Davison <andy.d...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >Well, when it comes to slang pom and limey aren't UKian but the way other
> >people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian. I think some of
> >us are trying to read too much into Discworld books.
> >
>
> Beg to differ with you, guv. I never heard or read the word "pom" except
> in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
> Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
>
Are you sure the word wasn't "plummy"? I've never heard "pommy" used to
mean posh/aristocratic/upper class/toffee-nosed/nobby etc etc.
Victoria
Richard Bos
> "Tom Saul" <lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip - well sorry Stephen but those apples were just too obscure for
> me>
>
> >Now, of course I just have to reach for my Latin Dicrionary[1] to look up
> >the motto "Capite Omnia".
>
> All in the head?
"Grab everything", I think.
Richard
Richard Bos
> On 11 Nov 2000, in
> message<8uib5e$ap3$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,dic...@Radix.Net (Richard Eney)
> said ...
> > A Pom isn't just a Limey, it's an upperclass Limey. So there's a possible
> > multiple pun: apple = pomme = knob (Nobby) = Nob = upperclass/Noble
>
> Well, when it comes to slang pom and limey aren't UKian but the way other
> people refer to the English. Pom is Aussie and limey USian.
Whether pom is originally Ozzy or not I don't know, but Limey is
definitely _not_ USAlien in origin. It originally referred specifically
to the English navy (limes to prevent scurvy and all that), and later
got widened to all Englishmen, but originated, AFAICT, with the English
themselves.
Richard
Grymma
"Paul Wilkins" <di...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:97413845...@shelley.paradise.net.nz...
> Chris wrote
> > And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
>
> straight this sort of misinformation.
<snip detailed etymology>
> For further batterings of this popular myth, have a look at the
following
> pages.
>
> Dave Wilson's Etymology Page
> http://www.wilton.net/wordorp.htm
>
> The Urban Legend Archive
> http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of.html
>
http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of_more.html
...but... but... you've now *totally* spoiled my firm childhood belief in
this explanation, as per Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. May the Gods forgive you
for I certainly won't... <sniffle>
:oP
--
Grymma AFPOh Goddess Of Hangovers; B.F.(use 'reply to')
AFPiancée to Tap, DP, Miq, XM & Chris H.; AFPhaghag;
AFPBigSis to Mike; Giver of (frnchsd) Scottish *hugs*n*kisses*
Tom Saul
news:8un1gq$b9h$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> Tom Saul <lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8un092$ebe$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > [1] In this carrier-bag I have to hand...
> <slash>
>
> Something doesn't look right here. I'm sure this joke has a
> mistake in it. Why can't I remember the origin? Oh, well. That's
> another half-hour I'm going to waste in lspace.org. Sigh.
The carrier bag in question *does* have Latin words starting A-F, but I
couldn't afford the other carrier bags, so I had to get a dictionary[1].
HTH
[1] Okay, I have to say I *do* know the old and creaky joke "on this carrier
bag",
but I thought I'd apply a little twist and make a fresh joke out of this old
one.
Rather like refried beans. :-)
Tom.
Tom Saul
> julie.w...@btinternet.com (ingenious paradox) wrote:
> > "Tom Saul" <lott...@tsaul.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
up
> > >the motto "Capite Omnia".
> >
> > All in the head?
>
> "Grab everything", I think.
That's what I thought! I knew it had to be a reference to Nobby in some way.
I suppose translating "The door just happened to open and all this stuff
leapt
into my bag" would have meant the shield ended up on an A3 page...
Tom.
Martin Julian DeMello
> Well, it looks like your friend and mine, jo...@polo.demon.co.uk (John
> Winters), back on 12 Nov 2000 18:06:43 -0000, went ahead and said:
> <massive snippage>
>>The word Pom is an XXXXian expression, derived from "Prisoner Of his
>>Majesty". Presumably therefore they really applied it to fresh XXXXians,
>>but it's come to mean Brits.
> And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
That was mean :)
One of the more interesting theories behind 'pommy'[1], incidentally, is
that it came from 'pomegranate' - to quote:
1923 D. H. Lawrence Kangaroo vii. 162 Pommy is supposed to be short for
pomegranate. Pomegranate, pronounced invariably pommygranate, is a near
enough rhyme to immigrant, in a naturally rhyming country. Furthermore,
immigrants are known in their first months, before their blood `thins
down', by their round and ruddy cheeks. So we are told.
[1] all this from the OED, which lists 'pom' as merely a contraction of
'pommy', and whose final verdict is 'origin obscure'. The acronymicity of
posh is likewise apocryphal at best.
--
Martin DeMello
Richard Eney
David Underdown <da...@davidunderdown.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Richard Eney <dic...@Radix.Net> wrote:
>> I never heard or read the word "pom" except in UK books,
>> and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
>> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
>> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a
>> pommy Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
>> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
>>
> upper class accent?
Drat. It was so long ago, now I can't be sure. It might have been
"plummy" at that. (Though I think the reference was more to his face
than his accent.)
So, taking the other posters' word for it that POM means Prisoner Of his
Majesty (which I still doubt), it does still apply rather well to Nobby.
OTOH, the heraldic pun could still refer to the phrase "with knobs on".
=Tamar
Never surrender!
- actor in "Galaxy Quest"
Paul Wilkins
> And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
No it does not. Here, I will quote from a book that I have which sets
straight this sort of misinformation.
posh. Widely believed is the story that /posh/ is an acronym for "Port
Outward-Starboard Homeward." According to this explanation, when
upper-echelon British civil servants or administrators were sent to India on
the famous P & O line (Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company) in
the days when the sun never set upon the empire, they would specify that
their staterooms should be on the port, or left, side of the ship on the
voyage out, on the starboard side on the way home after their tours of duty:
these being, respectively, the shady sides of the ship.
Unfortunately, this explanation is almost certainly what linguists call
folk-etymology; that is, contriving an explanation not because it is
demonstrably true, but because it sounds as if it ought to be. The P & O
line cannot produce evidence that the expression was ever used by any of its
officials, although its records go back to 1849.
As defined in an 1897 slang dictionary mentioned by the /Oxford English
Dictionary/, /posh/ had no sea-faring implications, meaning rather merely "a
dandy." The first quotation cited by the OED goes back only to 1918, and
there, again, it appears not to have any reference to the sea. Nor does the
most prestegious of American dictionaries, the Merriam-Webster, accept the
"Port Outward-Starboard Homeward" etymology.
For further batterings of this popular myth, have a look at the following
pages.
Dave Wilson's Etymology Page
http://www.wilton.net/wordorp.htm
The Urban Legend Archive
http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of.html
http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/posh_etymology_of_more.html
Paul Wilkins
John Wilkins
> Andy Davison wrote in message <317470109...@btinternet.com>...
> >On 12 Nov 2000, in
> >message<8ukq0l$fol$1...@saltmine.radix.net>,dic...@Radix.Net (Richard Eney)
> >said ...
> >
> >> Beg to differ with you, guv. I never heard or read the word "pom" except
> >> in UK books, and the most recent example I can think of is a quotation
> >> some years ago from a British person about the BBC having hired the
> >> correct actor to play Lord Peter Wimsey - "at last they've got a pommy
> >> Lord Peter", the previous actors having apparently been too
> >> unaristocratic-looking in that person's opinion.
> >
> >The Aussies usually precede the word 'pom' with the word 'whingeing'
> >Definitely Aussie slang.
> And it's usually followed by the word "bastard", as in the famous
> Australian greeting to English cricketers on the pitch: "G'day ya Pommie
> bastard." In recent years this has been too often followed, a couple of
> overs later, by "F*** off ya Pommie bastard"...
>
> Jonathan.
Pommie, pom & c. derive in all likelihood from the rhyming slang
"pomegranate" (for "immigrant") which at the time was alomst entirely
British or Irish. A goodly number of Londoners arrived in Australia
(some by way of class accommodation on Thames hulks) over the years and
we inherited the rhyming slang.
--
John Wilkins, Head, Graphic Production, The Walter and Eliza Hall
Institute of Medical Research, Melbourne, Australia
Homo homini aut deus aut lupus - Erasmus of Rotterdam
<http://www.users.bigpond.com/thewilkins/darwiniana.html>
MikeXXXX
> So, taking the other posters' word for it that POM means
> Prisoner Of his Majesty (which I still doubt),
May I draw the honourable =Tamar's attention to the following link
and suggest to "find" with 'Majesty' as the seed.
There's a couple of paragraphs about 2/3rds of the way down.
http://www.orie.cornell.edu/~nedwards/australiana/s.c.a.faq.5.html
It seems the jury it out having a quiet tinny.
They (TINT) may never return.
regards
Mike
--
"Can we slow down on the afp tendency to assume that my research
extends only to comic books in print and movies of the last
15 years?" Terry Pratchett abp Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:13:33 +0000
<LCuN$BA9dp...@unseen.demon.co.uk>
Axel Kielhorn
> That's because he means "on this carrier bag" not *in*. HTH. HAND
>
> -Mary (what kind of shop prints Latin dictionaries on carrier bags?)
When it is dog-latin it could have been a pet shop.
Axel
--
That I would be good, even if i lost insanity.
Chris
<di...@paradise.net.nz>, back on Tue, 14 Nov 2000 07:01:02 +1300, went
ahead and said:
>Chris wrote
>> And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
>
>No it does not. Here, I will quote from a book that I have which sets
>straight this sort of misinformation.
Excuse me, but I fully aware that P.O.S.H. is false. I was
sarcastically indicating my disbelief in the "Prisoner Of his
Majesty" explanation.
::Sigh:: I think we need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon.
But, your friend and mine, Martin Julian DeMello
<mdem...@kennel.ruf.rice.edu>, back on 13 Nov 2000 20:38:32 GMT, went
ahead and added:
>Chris <ChrisActly> wrote:
>> Well, it looks like your friend and mine, jo...@polo.demon.co.uk (John
>> Winters), back on 12 Nov 2000 18:06:43 -0000, went ahead and said:
>
>
>> <massive snippage>
>>>The word Pom is an XXXXian expression, derived from "Prisoner Of his
>>>Majesty". Presumably therefore they really applied it to fresh XXXXians,
>>>but it's come to mean Brits.
>
>> And posh comes from "port out, starboard home."
>
>That was mean :)
Ahhhhh. ::Sigh of relief:: Someone got it.
Still, that "tongue in cheek" emoticon is looking like a real good
idea about now.
--
"Would you like my mask, would you like my mirror?
Cries the man in the shadowing hood.
You can look at yourself, you can look at each other,
Or you can look at the face of your god."
"Mask and Mirror" by Loreena McKennitt
Paul Wilkins
> Excuse me, but I fully aware that P.O.S.H. is false. I was
> sarcastically indicating my disbelief in the "Prisoner Of his
> Majesty" explanation.
>
> ::Sigh:: I think we need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon.
<sarcasm> Really?
Paul Wilkins
Sockii
> Chris wrote
<snip>
> > ::Sigh:: I think we need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon.
>
> <sarcasm> Really?
</sarcasm>
Pull the other one; it's got knobs on! :-^
Sockii "gd&r"
--
afpguru-ed to Sarah http://jump.to/Annotate-o-matic
My life would be more efficient in every way
if I stopped checking in here each day.
---------------< http://wibblehome.fly.to/afpers.html >--------------
Richard Eney
Kincaid
John Wilkins <wil...@wehi.edu.au> wrote:
> Pommie, pom & c. derive in all likelihood from the rhyming slang
> "pomegranate" (for "immigrant")
And in what language does pomegranate rhyme with immigrant? I'm sorry, but
even trying to hear this in various accents in my head I have to really
really really mangle the pronunciation so much they are no longer the same
words...
Miq
liszt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>esmi wrote in message ...
>>Interesting idea but it doesn't quite fit as the leader of the
>>Parliamentarian army became the country's ruler whilst Old Stoneface
>>didn't rule A-M, IIRC.
>
> Did, actually. For a few months. Until he got chopped up and buried in
>five graves. (His army's nickname of "Ironheads" is certainly an annotatable
>reference for Cromwell's "Ironsides", which was *their* alternative
>nickname, and it's been done already.)
I read it as a cross between 'Ironsides' and 'Roundheads'. How broad a
hint do you need...?
>> Also Stoneface wasn't exactly revered for his
>>actions whilst Cromwell is still considered to have been, all in all, a
>>decent bloke.
Well, sorta. Though not, as Jonathan says, in Ireland. But for a long
while after the Restoration, Cromwell's very name was taboo. However
bad a king Charles I was (and it seems to me that the entire Stuart
dynasty was a bunch of half-witted fops, rather less fit to rule han one
of Pterry's carnivorous plants), he was still a *king*, and there was a
very special magic attached to him. A whole mythology has sprung up
around his trial and execution - such as the titbit that his axeman was
so ashamed of what he was doing that, as well as the usual hood, he
*also* disguised himself with a pillow up his front and a false beard...
After the Restoration, of course, it was highly suspicious, not to say
dangerous, to have a good word for Cromwell. It wasn't until Victorian
times that his reputation was fully rehabilitated.
--
Miq
Deadlines looming? Teachers to impress? No time to read? Never fear!
The Discworld Homework Files: http://www.kew1.demon.co.uk/homework.html
Tom Saul
> John Wilkins <wil...@wehi.edu.au> wrote:
> > Pommie, pom & c. derive in all likelihood from the rhyming slang
> > "pomegranate" (for "immigrant")
>
> even trying to hear this in various accents in my head I have to really
> really really mangle the pronunciation so much they are no longer the same
> words...
Try saying it with a pommegranit in your mouth.
HTH
This post has been brought to you by UselessSuggestion(tm).
Tom.
John Wilkins
> In article <1ek390c.vppgq1s3pjggN%wil...@wehi.edu.au>,
> John Wilkins <wil...@wehi.edu.au> wrote:
> > Pommie, pom & c. derive in all likelihood from the rhyming slang
> > "pomegranate" (for "immigrant")
>
> And in what language does pomegranate rhyme with immigrant? I'm sorry, but
> even trying to hear this in various accents in my head I have to really
> really really mangle the pronunciation so much they are no longer the same
> words...
"Rhyme" is one of those wossnames (no, not a metasyntactic variable) -
it is more a matter of the number and rough "shape" of the syllables
than an actual rhyme. Hey, these guys came from London and went to
Sydney. What can you expect?
MikeXXXX
>
> Kincaid <Kin...@kincaid.org.uk> wrote:
> > John Wilkins <wil...@wehi.edu.au> wrote:
> > > rhyming slang "pomegranate" (for "immigrant")
> >
> > I'm sorry, but even trying to hear this in various accents
> > in my head I have to really really really mangle the
> > pronunciation so much they are no longer the same words...
>
[cough] ... after a few beers.
but seriously:-
pommy graaaa nt
immy graaaaaan't
Say you've got a pommy immigrant joining you for a few coldies
at the local. After a while they're a pommyimmigrant.
Then, a bit later, a pommygrant; but that sounds silly
so, next round, pomegranate.
And by that stage they probably look like one too. :)
see?
What I want to know is where 'bodge' came from.
:)
Mike
Gid Holyoake
share with us..
Snippetry..
> What I want to know is where 'bodge' came from.
Ooh.. easy one.. bodge comes from "bodging"..
Hmmm.. I'd better explain that..
Bodging is the turning of wood using a bodger's lathe.. a bodger's lathe
is a lathe powered by the springiness of a young sapling that has been
tethered to a treadle by the bodger in question..
When a piece of furniture had a serious problem with one of the turned
pieces, you could either elicit the services of a turner (who was the
proud possessor of a real lathe) or you could elicit the services of a
bodger (who didn't have a real lathe but could probably turn out[1] more
or less the same thing a bit more cheaply).. hence a bodge job..
Gid
[1] no pun intended!
--
The Most Noble and Exalted Peculiar , Harem Master to Veiled Concubines
Guardian of the Sacred !!!!!'s , Defender of the Temple of AFPdoration
ISTP http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/ for The Irrelevant Page! MJBC
Always try to be modest and be proud of it!..
MEG
>Ooh.. easy one.. bodge comes from "bodging"..
>
>Hmmm.. I'd better explain that..
>
>Bodging is the turning of wood using a bodger's lathe.. a bodger's
>lathe is a lathe powered by the springiness of a young sapling
>that has been tethered to a treadle by the bodger in question..
>
>When a piece of furniture had a serious problem with one of the
>turned pieces, you could either elicit the services of a turner
>(who was the proud possessor of a real lathe) or you could
>elicit the services of a bodger (who didn't have a real lathe
>but could probably turn out[1] more
>or less the same thing a bit more cheaply).. hence a bodge job..
Aha! That explains bodging but it doesn't reveal the secret of a
"Heath Robinson" job. I blithely used the phrase in relation to
something at work the other day (not *my* work you understand) and a
young colleague looked blank. Again.
I tried my best to describe what is meant but had no idea of its
origins and, though almost everyone else in the office knew the term,
no-one knew the reference. Trying to explain that to the colleague
(who happily reminds me that he was born a mere few months before I
started working for this company) is a rather depressing experience.
[1] NMF
- MEG
* "2002: A Discworld Odyssey" * August 16th-19th, 2002 -
* Web: http://www.dwcon.org/ * Email: in...@dwcon.org *
Miq
>Aha! That explains bodging but it doesn't reveal the secret of a
>"Heath Robinson" job. I blithely used the phrase in relation to
>something at work the other day (not *my* work you understand) and a
>young colleague looked blank. Again.
>
>I tried my best to describe what is meant but had no idea of its
>origins
I'm shocked - disturbed - nay, distressed - to think that you could be
so ill-informed, my sweet. Did you never read Professor Brainstawm?
Heath Robinson was an artist who drew Incredible Machines, in which
things like buckets and balloons and ropes and cats and scissors and
other everyday household objects were connected in improbable *but
superficially plausible* ways to produce some very ordinary results,
like a machine to butter one's toast. Traditionally, the machine would
be so big that you'd need to live in a barn to construct it.
Great joy lies in tracing the workings of the machine, then in toying
with the idea of actually building one (which should be perfectly
possible in principle).
Hence, a Heath Robinson contraption is something that is made up of
components never intended for the purpose, hugely impractical and
probably dangerous. In all but the most exceptional circumstances,
nobody sane would seriously consider building one, or using one if
somebody else built it.
imalone
>
>Hence, a Heath Robinson contraption is something that is made up of
>components never intended for the purpose, hugely impractical and
>probably dangerous. In all but the most exceptional circumstances,
>nobody sane would seriously consider building one, or using one if
>somebody else built it.
>
Sounds tempting, where can I get hold of plans?
"The dream is always the same."
Chris Share
says...
I think you can find books of his designs.
Do they remind anyone else of Bloody Stupid Johnston?
chris
Karen
>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote
[heath robinsons]
>>I tried my best to describe what is meant but had no idea of its
>>origins
>
>I'm shocked - disturbed - nay, distressed - to think that you could be
>so ill-informed, my sweet. Did you never read Professor Brainstawm?
Even more shocked that MEG has yet to inflict these tomes on the young
MEGons.
>
>Heath Robinson was an artist who drew Incredible Machines, in which
>things like buckets and balloons and ropes and cats and scissors and
>other everyday household objects were connected in improbable *but
>superficially plausible* ways to produce some very ordinary results,
>like a machine to butter one's toast. Traditionally, the machine would
>be so big that you'd need to live in a barn to construct it.
And also general cartoonist bringing both into his book illustration, eg
the aforementioned Professor B which are highly recommended.
Hm - just looked at Amazon to find them described as being for 8-11 year
olds especially boys. Which just goes to show what they know. My Dad
introduced these to me when I was younger than that and it didn't do me
any harm...
Biographical info can be found at this site from my daughter's
bookmarks (whoops better tell her she shouldn't be reading this stuff)
<http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/whrobin.htm>
(Parent site covers lots of other artists too, kind of like Poets
Corner)
And some examples of both his machines and cartoons at:
<http://www.a.ghinn.btinternet.co.uk/heath.htm>
Including one of particular interest to any would be attenders of Dutch
afpmeets...
>
>Great joy lies in tracing the workings of the machine, then in toying
>with the idea of actually building one (which should be perfectly
>possible in principle).
Oh yes - kind of like tracing Escher pictures but altogether more
anarchic at their best.
>Hence, a Heath Robinson contraption is something that is made up of
>components never intended for the purpose, hugely impractical and
>probably dangerous. In all but the most exceptional circumstances,
>nobody sane would seriously consider building one, or using one if
>somebody else built it.
You would really think so wouldn't you?
<http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/westonroad/art/whr/>
Now is this the point at which to make a gratuitous reference to
Hoffnung?
ttfn,
--
Karen/hypatia Ka...@lspace.org
New? Check http://www.lspace.org
Confused? Mail the Clue Fairies at afp-...@lspace.org
AFP Welcome Message: http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/welcome.html
Kincaid
imalone <i_b_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sounds tempting, where can I get hold of plans?
Amazon. And any good bookshop.
Kincaid
MikeXXXX <wilk...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> Tom Saul wrote:
> > > And in what language does pomegranate rhyme with immigrant? I'm
> > > sorry, but even trying to hear this in various accents in my head I
> > > have to really really really mangle the pronunciation so much they
> > > are no longer the same words...
> >
> > Try saying it with a pommegranit in your mouth.
> [cough] ... after a few beers.
> but seriously:-
> pommy graaaa nt
But that isn't the same word. In any shape or form.
> immy graaaaaan't
> Say you've got a pommy immigrant joining you for a few coldies at the
> local. After a while they're a pommyimmigrant. Then, a bit later, a
> pommygrant; but that sounds silly so, next round, pomegranate.
Yeah, but that's working backwards, using the supposedly derived word to
get the word it derived from...
--
Kincaid Labs
Tampering in God's domain since 1975
Mary Messall
> Heath Robinson was an artist who drew Incredible Machines, in which
> things like buckets and balloons and ropes and cats and scissors and
> other everyday household objects were connected in improbable *but
> Hence, a Heath Robinson contraption is something that is made up of
> components never intended for the purpose, hugely impractical and
> probably dangerous. In all but the most exceptional circumstances,
> nobody sane would seriously consider building one, or using one if
> somebody else built it.
Erm... No relation to Rube Goldberg, then?
-Mary (http://www.rube-goldberg.com/rg2idx.htm)
--
http://www.crosswinds.net/~mmessall/
"There's always a little dirt, or infinity, or something."
-Richard Feynman
imalone
Thanks both of you. Didn't realise they'd still be around.
Now where can I get two counterweights, a couple of pulleys and
about 6m of rope?
--
"You have viruses, but I have resistance, and I am alive, and you-
are dead." Ken Macleod The Star Fraction
sandriana
wrote:
>snip
>
>Thanks both of you. Didn't realise they'd still be around.
>
>Now where can I get two counterweights, a couple of pulleys and
>about 6m of rope?
>
>--
HMS Victory.
Sandriana
--
Sandriana
X-AFPCode-version: AFP Code 2.0: Ala-UK d s---:---
!a UP++ R+++ F- h- P- OS-:-C+++ M-- pp--pp- L--- I*a++
c B+ Cn- CC- PT--- Pu73:Pu* !X MT++ e+++ r++/p++ end
Kincaid
imalone <i_b_m...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now where can I get two counterweights, a couple of pulleys and
> about 6m of rope?
and ne steel oil drum, eighty gallons of ready-mix and an oxy-acetylene
torch...
I'm sorry, I'll just get my Gangsters Moll and leave in the 1920's
limousine.
MikeXXXX
>
> In article <3A15E2BB...@tpg.com.au>,
> MikeXXXX <wilk...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > Tom Saul wrote:
> > > > I'm sorry, but even trying to hear this in various accents
> > > > in my head I have to really really really mangle the
> > > > pronunciation so much they are no longer the same words...
> > >
> > > Try saying it with a pommegranit in your mouth.
>
> > [cough] ... after a few beers.
>
> > but seriously:-
>
> > pommy graaaa nt
>
Waddayamean? pomegranate is/might/could be pronounced
pommy graaaa net, with a shortened e in the net bit.
> > immy graaaaaan't
>
> > Say you've got a pommy immigrant joining you for a few coldies
> > at the local. After a while they're a pommyimmigrant. Then,
> > a bit later, a pommygrant; but that sounds silly so, next
> > round, pomegranate.
>
> Yeah, but that's working backwards, using the supposedly derived
> word to get the word it derived from...
Well, yes, I wasn't there when it happened, this is true.
However I can see how it would/could happen and was offering
an explanation.
You'll just have to revel in the complex aural interplays
and confusion which the Aussie accent is capable of providing.
Or not. :)
btw - this particular XXXXian was asked to
say 'koala' just so some people in London
could fall about the place laughing.
*I* didn't get the joke, myself , personally.
*They* thought it was hilarious.
repeatedly (sigh)
regards
Mike
--
http://www.elfden.freeserve.co.uk/further/further7.html
http://www.crosswinds.net/~wibblehome/afpers.html
Kincaid
MikeXXXX <wilk...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> btw - this particular XXXXian was asked to
> say 'koala' just so some people in London
> could fall about the place laughing.
> *I* didn't get the joke, myself , personally.
> *They* thought it was hilarious.
> repeatedly (sigh)
You'll have to mp3 yourself so the rest of AFP can explain it to you...
Richard Bos
> Miq wrote:
> > Hence, a Heath Robinson contraption is something that is made up of
> > components never intended for the purpose, hugely impractical and
> > probably dangerous. In all but the most exceptional circumstances,
> > nobody sane would seriously consider building one, or using one if
> > somebody else built it.
>
> Erm... No relation to Rube Goldberg, then?
>
> -Mary (http://www.rube-goldberg.com/rg2idx.htm)
Very similar; rather different in style, but just about the same in
subject matter and treatment of themes.
Cat's Eye have written a programming language (well... in the broadest
sense of the word) called Rube, which is a tribute to Mr. Goldberg:
<http://www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric/rube/index.html>.
Richard
MEG
> Miq <Mi...@kew1.demon.co.uk> writes
>>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote
>
>[heath robinsons]
>>>I tried my best to describe what is meant but had no idea of its
>>>origins
>>
>>I'm shocked - disturbed - nay, distressed - to think that you could
be
>>so ill-informed, my sweet. Did you never read Professor Brainstawm?
>
>Even more shocked that MEG has yet to inflict these tomes on the
young
>MEGons.
My thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Especially the
web page links which I used to get up a bit o' momentum on the
subject. I'm sure Paul [1] will be interested in some of the
inventions and will be coming along with wacky ideas of his own before
the end of the week.
[1] No. 1 son
Cheers,
Robert J Green
"MEG" <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8vejl6$l53$1...@library.lspace.org...
> Karen wrote in message ...
> [1] No. 1 son
You _number_ your sons?
MikeXXXX
>
> Karen wrote in message ...
> >>On Sat, 18 Nov 2000, MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote
> >
> >[heath robinsons]
> >>> I tried my best to describe what is meant but had no idea
> >>> of its origins
> >>
> >> I'm shocked - disturbed - nay, distressed - to think that
> >>> you could be so ill-informed, my sweet. Did you never
> >>> read Professor Brainstawm?
> >
> >Even more shocked that MEG has yet to inflict these tomes on the
> > young MEGons.
>
> My thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Especially
> the web page links which I used to get up a bit o' momentum on
> the subject. I'm sure Paul [1] will be interested in some of the
> inventions and will be coming along with wacky ideas of his own
> before the end of the week.
>
> [1] No. 1 son
>
Ditto from me, thanks for explaining 'bodge'.
Tempting fate - does anyone associate the phrase 'juryrig'
with the Heath Robinson type creations?
a la - "I'm sure we can juryrig these spoons together
with this windmill, strap on this rubberband to the
alternator and have some DC flowing in no time."
regards
Mike
--
New to afp/abp? check http://www.lspace.org/
afp welcome message: http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/welcome.html
http://www.elfden.freeserve.co.uk/further/further7.html
http://www.crosswinds.net/~wibblehome/afpers.html
MEG
>
>You _number_ your sons?
Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes from way
back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion that it has
something to do with Charlie Chan. If I disforget correctly, he was
one of the first TV cops before they were everywhere. A Chinaman with
an aspiring, eager son. Black and white it was.
Oh my word! What have I said?
Richard Eney
MEG <MEGl...@djelibeybi.idps.co.uk> wrote:
>Robert J Green wrote
>>"MEG" <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote
>>
>>You _number_ your sons?
>
>Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes from way
>back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion that it has
>something to do with Charlie Chan. If I disforget correctly, he was
>one of the first TV cops before they were everywhere. A Chinaman with
>an aspiring, eager son. Black and white it was.
Movies, it was movies. Not tv until reruns later. The original Charlie
Chan was a detective, played by Warner Oland. He had many sons but No.1
Son was the only one onscreen. Eager, yes. (I think near the end of the
Warner Oland series a No.2 son appeared, when the original actor wasn't
available. But I could be misremembering.) Later another series of films
was made with Charlie Chan played by Sidney Greenstreet (?), but he wasn't
nearly as good in the role.
=Tamar
Miq
>
>
>Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes from way
>back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion that it has
>something to do with Charlie Chan. If I disforget correctly, he was
>one of the first TV cops before they were everywhere. A Chinaman with
>an aspiring, eager son. Black and white it was.
Only one quibble - he had a large number of sons, about seven if *I*
disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three got to be Main
Sidekick at least once.
>Oh my word! What have I said?
Congrats, you've started an Ancient Filmntelevision Thread. Did you
remember your helmet?
Kincaid
MikeXXXX <wilk...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> Tempting fate - does anyone associate the phrase 'juryrig'
> with the Heath Robinson type creations?
Yup, as most jury-rigged things tend to look like HR contraptions when
they've been bodged together.
Brewers gives jury-rigged as a sailing term, origin unknown, possibly from
the Old French 'ajurie' - to aid.
MEG
>>
>>
>>Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes from
way
>>back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion that it has
>>something to do with Charlie Chan. If I disforget correctly, he was
>>one of the first TV cops before they were everywhere. A Chinaman
with
>>an aspiring, eager son. Black and white it was.
>
>disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three got to be Main
>Sidekick at least once.
But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though I am
*much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>. I know *I* have
only one son but I wasn't implying that Charlie Chan had only one son.
Perish the thought.
>>Oh my word! What have I said?
>
>Congrats, you've started an Ancient Filmntelevision Thread. Did you
>remember your helmet?
Just as long as no-one mentions Lucille Ball, I think we're fairly
safe.
Oh Horrors!
- MEG
Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
sparrow
Kincaid wrote:
>
> In article <3A1B5573...@tpg.com.au>,
> MikeXXXX <wilk...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> > Tempting fate - does anyone associate the phrase 'juryrig'
> > with the Heath Robinson type creations?
>
> Yup, as most jury-rigged things tend to look like HR contraptions when
> they've been bodged together.
>
> Brewers gives jury-rigged as a sailing term, origin unknown, possibly from
> the Old French 'ajurie' - to aid.
>
Isn't it something to do with when ships lost their masts in storms etc
and had to improvise rigging and sails?
Sparrow
Karen
<blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> writes
>>>Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes from
way
>>>back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion that it has
>>>something to do with Charlie Chan.
Hm - not necessarily... I refer to #1 son and #1 daughter and I have no
memory of Charlie Chan on the TV. No really I swear it...
I have a vague feeling it comes from their paternal grandfather spending
large parts of career in Arab and African parts. Well that is his
excuse for the phrasing, but talking to him is more like dealing with
Wodehouse than Chan, an unfortunate characteristic which the #1 seems to
have inherited.
>>Only one quibble - he had a large number of sons, about seven if *I*
>>disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three got to be Main
>>Sidekick at least once.
Is that equivalent to being the primary stooge on Star Trek?
>But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though I am
>*much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>.
Absolutely, we both are...I'll sidle by you...
>>>Oh my word! What have I said?
>>
>>Congrats, you've started an Ancient Filmntelevision Thread. Did you
>>remember your helmet?
>Just as long as no-one mentions Lucille Ball, I think we're fairly
>safe.
>Oh Horrors!
There is only one thing worse/better [1] than the ' Ancient
Filmntelevision Thread'...
Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should go
to bed right now with no reading :]
>Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
on whom dear?
[1] delete as applicable
Bernard M. Earp
<ka...@lspace.org> writes
>>>Only one quibble - he had a large number of sons, about seven if *I*
>>>disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three got to be Main
>>>Sidekick at least once.
>
>Is that equivalent to being the primary stooge on Star Trek?
No, he did not have to wear a red shirt and get killed two minutes into
the action
--
Bernard M. Earp
Holding the heights of Bromley Cross
ppint.
"Karen" wrote:
>In article <8vhgrk$ocr$1...@library.lspace.org>,
> MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> writes
>>Miq wrote in message ...
>>>>Robert J Green wrote in message <8vevg4$4kc5$1...@athena.ex.ac.uk>...
>
>>>>>You _number_ your sons?
>>>>Yup. Paul is No. 1 son. There are no others. It sort of comes
>>>>from way back in the family and I have a sneaking suspicion
>>>>that it has something to do with Charlie Chan.
>Hm - not necessarily... I refer to #1 son and #1 daughter and I
>have no memory of Charlie Chan on the TV. No really I swear it...
>
>I have a vague feeling it comes from their paternal grandfather
>spending large parts of career in Arab and African parts. Well
>that is his excuse for the phrasing, but talking to him is more
>istic which the #1 seems to have inherited.
- _can't_ be an heritable characteristic:
wodehouse had no jeans
[reformatted:]
>>>Only one quibble - he had a large number of sons, about seven
>>>if *I* disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three
>>>got to be Main Sidekick at least once.
>
>Is that equivalent to being the primary stooge on Star Trek?
- the one in the red sweatshirt ?
(well, it would explain why we never saw other sons again.)
[reformatted:]
>>But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though
>>I am *much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>.
>
>Absolutely, we both are...I'll sidle by you...
- getting crabby in our old ages, are we, now ?
>
>>>>Oh my word! What have I said?
[reformatted:]
>>>Congrats, you've started an Ancient Filmntelevision Thread. Did
>>>you remember your helmet?
>>Just as long as no-one mentions Lucille Ball, I think we're fairly
>>safe.
>>Oh Horrors!
>
>There is only one thing worse/better [1] than the ' Ancient
>Filmntelevision Thread'...
- there're *lots* of things worse/better [1] than that;
how about "the merkin god-given right to arm feminazi
democrat/republican bears, and whether to count, or not
to count, or re-count, manually or otherwise, their con-
stitutionally-guaranteed - or not - and rightfully cast,
shot, ballots/bullets/bollocks, as may or may not be de-
termined from the impressions they've made in any given
ballot paper, political appointee or elected official -
or anything else" ?
- hmmm, now; come to think of it, that could both serve
a purpose, as well as be worse/better [1] than that...
>
>Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
>
>White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
>
>Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
>go to bed right now with no reading :]
- ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
would it have been in the early seventies, when i would
sometimes forsake the dubious delights of the informal
practical seminars upon probability run privately by one
brian stableford in langwith jcr [a], for the greater
warmth of the main tv room, whilst writing up my official
practical reports ?
- but "torchy", "white horses", "casey jones" or "bananana..
..nananana splits" (<*yeuchh*>) ?
- nope; never seen 'em, never heard 'em, never even _heard_
of 'em;
- they can't've been up to much... [b]
* space for gasps of horror, cries of "heresy!" etc, etc. *
[- but, in the meantime, does anyafper here know what the
music was, that was used as the theme for "adrian hill's
sketch time" ?]
>
>>Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
>
>on whom dear?
- argggggh! - it's the attack of the animate trousseau !
>
>[1] delete as applicable
>
>(karen)
>
- are you quite sure that isn't "delete as *in*applicable",
dear ?
- thank-you; i already have my coat, and am far enough into
the north-wet here, i don't see an afper more than once a
quarter [c]: no need for speed...
...fortunately.
- love, ppint.
["v$af$ppint@" bounces e-mail; drop the "v" to reply or cc.]
[a] - aka "five card stud[-poker]" games
[b] - a little extra warmth'd be appreciated atm here in i.m.t.
[c] - save for craig, in the role-playing game on friday nights:
you're beginning to move now, though i'm a little uncertain,
as to your precise direction.. ..but i'm sure you know what
you're doing...
--
"Bounciness is fun!!!
Embrace your inner Ping Pong ball."
- bruceanna di rosenkavaliera (then plain marian rosenberg)
5/1/98 (1/5/98 for merkins)
Lady Kayla
("ppint.") wrote:
> - hi; in afparticle, <1C8WhsEK...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>,
> "Karen" wrote:
> >Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
> - ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
> would it have been in the early seventies,
Damn and blast! Now you've done it! "get _down_ Shep!"
--
Lady Kayla
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send
unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail to my
suespammers.org address.
CmjS
news:975067...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk...
<snippalot>
> >Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
> >
> >White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
> >
> >Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
> >go to bed right now with no reading :]
_No reading_??? Ye gods. What kind of sadistic person enforces that
punishment? Positively barbaric IMO, really and for true. Takes all the fun
out of life that does.
> - ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
> would it have been in the early seventies, when i would
> sometimes forsake the dubious delights of the informal
> practical seminars upon probability run privately by one
> brian stableford in langwith jcr [a], for the greater
> warmth of the main tv room, whilst writing up my official
> practical reports ?
Methinks probably. I was either non-existent at that time, or existed in
potentia, so this is based upon my dodgy grey matter, in the mindless trivia
category.
> - but "torchy", "white horses", "casey jones" or "bananana..
> ..nananana splits" (<*yeuchh*>) ?
Now these I recall, are still going (the banana splits) - both the tv prog
and the delectable dairy dessert. I also vaguely remember CJ tho..I think.
> - nope; never seen 'em, never heard 'em, never even _heard_
> of 'em;
>
> - they can't've been up to much... [b]
>
>
> * space for gasps of horror, cries of "heresy!" etc, etc. *
Damn. Damn and double damn. Where's 20p when you need it? My Python cortex
has just shuddered into life..Run away! Triple damn That'd be 40p then.
<snip>
> >
> >>Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
> >
> >on whom dear?
>
> - argggggh! - it's the attack of the animate trousseau !
> >
> >[1] delete as applicable
> >
> >(karen)
> >
> - are you quite sure that isn't "delete as *in*applicable",
> dear ?
>
> - thank-you; i already have my coat, and am far enough into
> the north-wet here, i don't see an afper more than once a
> quarter [c]: no need for speed...
> ...fortunately.
North wet is right. Oh, there are days when I wish for the sheer
unpredictability of home down in the south wet. Least homes got interesting
weather..b*strd weather admittedly, but still unpredictable. Ah well, the
price of drinking large amounts of al...of getting an education. *sigh*
>
> - love, ppint.
<snip>
> [b] - a little extra warmth'd be appreciated atm here in i.m.t.
You know, if i was a nasty person, I'd make a point of reminding you that
you've got an awful lot of kindling in there...But thankfully I'm not.
Farenheit 451 disturbs me immensely for that same reason...Plus I know the
value of a bloody good booshop! Where else would I spend significant amounts
of Wednesdays otherwise? *g*
>
> [c] - save for craig, in the role-playing game on friday nights:
> you're beginning to move now, though i'm a little uncertain,
> as to your precise direction.. ..but i'm sure you know what
> you're doing...
>
But of course.....::mutters::: And if you believe that, its time to take a
good _hard_ look at yourself.... *g*
--
> "Bounciness is fun!!!
> Embrace your inner Ping Pong ball."
> - bruceanna di rosenkavaliera (then plain marian rosenberg)
> 5/1/98 (1/5/98 for merkins)
C~
--
Craig
- So lad, you've finally summoned the courage to face me in single combat?
-Yes, foul sorceror. I face you now as a man avenging his father!
-Oh. Right. Bit stupid then, aren't you? <FZZT!>...Hero flavoured jam,
anyone?
(Talon The Awfully Sensible Sorceror)
Kincaid
sparrow <joma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Brewers gives jury-rigged as a sailing term, origin unknown, possibly
> > from the Old French 'ajurie' - to aid.
> >
> Isn't it something to do with when ships lost their masts in storms etc
> and had to improvise rigging and sails?
Sorry, Brewers knows what it means (to set up a temporary mast etc), but
not the origin of the _name_
elfin
> ("ppint.") wrote:
> > "Karen" wrote:
> > >Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and
> > >John Noakes?
> > - ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
> > would it have been in the early seventies,
>
Having missed the previous posts I'll butt in here:
Torchy? as in the battery boy?
hmm Karen, I know you've been about a bit, but wasn't that a bit before
even you?
elfin
shoes on ready to run....
--
You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever.
New to afp? need help? then contact afp-...@lspace.org
Hamster help, OE pages & more at http://www.elfden.co.uk/
Spooky
elfin <el...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:Q5AT5.10738$ws2.1...@news3.cableinet.net...
> Lady Kayla wrote
> > ("ppint.") wrote:
> > > "Karen" wrote:
> > > >Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and
> > > >John Noakes?
> > [...]
> > > - ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
> > > would it have been in the early seventies,
> >
> > Damn and blast! Now you've done it! "get _down_ Shep!"
>
> Having missed the previous posts I'll butt in here:
>
> Torchy? as in the battery boy?
>
> hmm Karen, I know you've been about a bit, but wasn't that a bit before
> even you?
>
> elfin
> shoes on ready to run....
If you'd like to indulge these moments of pre-Karen nostalgia try tv.cream.
I think even Torchy is on there.
Unfortunately, I remember him - and Twizzle, too. :o))
--
A Spooky susurration
"You may be taller than me,
But that doesn't make me smaller than you."
MEG
>Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
>
>White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
>
>Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
go
>to bed right now with no reading :]
Nope. Never heard of Torchy the piano; Blue Peter with Val, John and
Peter with Petra and Shep; Nor that crappy dubbed foreign White Horses
which was twinned with Heidi in the mornings during school holidays.
Casey Jones *might* ring a bell (or sound a whistle), but Banananana
Splits means absolutely na na na, nanna na na, na na na, nothing to
me. I preferred the Pied Piper. Nice singing voice 'e 'ad.
IGMZimmerFrame
Karen
<blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> writes
>Karen wrote in message <1C8WhsEK...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>...
>>Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
>>White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
>>Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
>go
>>to bed right now with no reading :]
>
>
>Nope. Never heard of Torchy the piano;
<ahem> do you mean Torchy the Battery Boy? Well thats what my much older
brother tells me anyway...
>Blue Peter with Val, John and
>Peter with Petra and Shep;
Hah! she remembers pre Lesley Judd a sure sign of...um absolutely
nothing I am sure.
>Nor that crappy dubbed foreign White Horses
And the Singing ringing tree? This of course makes it a multi national
inter continental thread and not a "uk childrens tv for the middle aged
" thread.
(heh - see how many new contributors join *now*)
>which was twinned with Heidi
boring boring
>in the mornings during school holidays.
>Casey Jones *might* ring a bell (or sound a whistle),
vaguely really
> but Banananana
>Splits means absolutely na na na, nanna na na, na na na, nothing to
>me.
The arabian nights? the Four Musketeers?
Did I ever tell you "Singing in the Rain " was one of my favourite old
musicals? [yes there is a connection and to be honest there are not that
many I do like greatly]
> I preferred the Pied Piper. Nice singing voice 'e 'ad.
huh? who? you are Conning me??
>
>IGMZimmerFrame
Is that what 600 miles, and givng out a gazillion leaflets to would be
Con-goers on a signing tour does for you? Or one episode of pokemon?
Karen
<v$a$fpp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> writes
>> MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> writes
>>>Miq wrote in message ...
>>>> MEG <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> wrote
[..]
>>I have a vague feeling it comes from their paternal grandfather
>>spending large parts of career in Arab and African parts. Well
>>that is his excuse for the phrasing, but talking to him is more
>>like dealing with Wodehouse than Chan, an unfortunate character-
>>istic which the #1 seems to have inherited.
>
> - _can't_ be an heritable characteristic:
>
> wodehouse had no jeans
Oh ppint! that merits a copy of Long Tusk at the very least.
Shame shame on you :]
>
>[reformatted:]
>>>>Only one quibble - he had a large number of sons, about seven
>>>>if *I* disforget rightly. Of those, I think the first three
>>>>got to be Main Sidekick at least once.
>>
>>Is that equivalent to being the primary stooge on Star Trek?
>
> - the one in the red sweatshirt ?
>
> (well, it would explain why we never saw other sons again.)
spermbanks, ppint dear, spermbanks...
>[reformatted:]
>>>But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though
>>>I am *much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>.
>>
>>Absolutely, we both are...I'll sidle by you...
>
> - getting crabby in our old ages, are we, now ?
Would that put us in the group: Crustancients?? 0:]
>>Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
>>
>>White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
>>
>>Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
>>go to bed right now with no reading :]
>
> - ummm: i *just* about recall blue peter with those two -
> would it have been in the early seventies, when i would
> sometimes forsake the dubious delights of the informal
> practical seminars upon probability run privately by one
> brian stableford in langwith jcr [a], for the greater
> warmth of the main tv room, whilst writing up my official
> practical reports ?
>
Which was more enjoyable?
> - but "torchy", "white horses", "casey jones" or "bananana..
> ..nananana splits" (<*yeuchh*>) ?
>
> - nope; never seen 'em, never heard 'em, never even _heard_
> of 'em;
>
> - they can't've been up to much... [b]
>
>
> * space for gasps of horror, cries of "heresy!" etc, etc. *
>
"heresy" - in fact doesn't the Goddess herself possess videos of the
"White Horses"? Or were they overpriced I don't recall.
>>>Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
>>
>>on whom dear?
>
> - argggggh! - it's the attack of the animate trousseau !
You have been watching videos of Bedknobs and Broomsticks and ICM5UKP
Chris
<ka...@freeserve.co.uk>, back on Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:44:26 +0000 (GMT),
went ahead and said:
>In article <3A1C4697...@yahoo.com>,
> sparrow <joma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Brewers gives jury-rigged as a sailing term, origin unknown, possibly
>> > from the Old French 'ajurie' - to aid.
>> >
>
>> Isn't it something to do with when ships lost their masts in storms etc
>> and had to improvise rigging and sails?
>
>Sorry, Brewers knows what it means (to set up a temporary mast etc), but
>not the origin of the _name_
Webster's 2nd New International, under jury-rigged, refers one to jury
as an adjective. Under jury, adj., is:
[First in _jury mast_, prob. fr. OF. _ajurie_ relief, help, fr. L.
_adjutare_ to help]
--
"Would you like my mask, would you like my mirror?
Cries the man in the shadowing hood.
You can look at yourself, you can look at each other,
Or you can look at the face of your god."
"Mask and Mirror" by Loreena McKennitt
Spooky
Karen <ka...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:tfhANnAD...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk...
> In article <8vmr63$30p$1...@library.lspace.org>, MEG
> <blac...@unseen.idps.co.uk> writes
> >Karen wrote in message <1C8WhsEK...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>...
> >>Do you remember Torchy? Blue Peter with Val and John Noakes?
> >>White horses...Casey Jones...Banana Splits...
> >>Anyone who doesn't remember these programs is up too late and should
> >go
> >>to bed right now with no reading :]
> >Nor that crappy dubbed foreign White Horses
To which we used to sing the line *snowy white corsets* :o))
> And the Singing ringing tree? This of course makes it a multi national
> inter continental thread and not a "uk childrens tv for the middle aged
> " thread.
Ahh, the Singing Ringing Tree with possibly the ugliest dwarf fella in the
entire history of ugly dwarf fellas.
<snippet>
> >in the mornings during school holidays.
> >Casey Jones *might* ring a bell (or sound a whistle),
*Steamin' and a-rollin'*
*When you hear the tootin' of the whistle . .*
> > but Banananana
> >Splits means absolutely na na na, nanna na na, na na na, nothing to
> >me.
>
> The arabian nights? the Four Musketeers?
What about H R Puffnstuff? With Witchypoo and all those Tweeny type
critters that ran about falling over.
Oh, what heady days.
--
A Spooky susurration
"You may be taller than me,
But that doesn't make me smaller than you." :o)
Melody
Spooky <spo...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:fiMT5.10531$vA4.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Snipped TV rememberances
> Oh, what heady days.
You can generally guestimate someones age (Ukian ppl) by the Blue Peter
presenters that they remember and also their favourite Dr Who ;o)
Christopher Trace and Valerie Singleton are my BP presenters and William
Hartnell and Partick Troughton are *my* Dr Who
FWIW , I *loved* White Horses
Melody
--
It's like looking in a mirror , only not
MEG
"Size... of an elephant!"
>the Four Musketeers?
With the hanger-on snot-nosed kid?
And, of course, the two little Mexican girls with guitars that
appeared whenever Drooper opened the door.
>Did I ever tell you "Singing in the Rain " was one of my favourite
old
>musicals? [yes there is a connection and to be honest there are not
that
>many I do like greatly]
I can't guess the connection but that may be due to me never having
seen "Singing in the Rain"
>> I preferred the Pied Piper. Nice singing voice 'e 'ad.
>
>huh? who? you are Conning me??
Actually, this is a bit vague. There was a nice man, a bit rotund and
ruddy who wore leiderhosen <sp?> and introduced cartoons and stuff
like the Banana Splits. A sort of a link man. And occasionally he'd
sing. He had a lovely baritone voice. But I disremember the details
now.
>>IGMZimmerFrame
>
>Is that what 600 miles, and givng out a gazillion leaflets to would
be
>Con-goers on a signing tour does for you? Or one episode of
pokemon?
"She said the *P* word!"
I think both have similar effects but it's possible to recover from
the former <g>.
Best,
ppint.
ka...@lspace.org "Karen" observed, and enquired:
> In article <975067...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk>,
> ppint. <$a$fpp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> writes
>>- hi; in afparticle, <1C8WhsEK...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>,
>> "Karen" wrote:
>[..]
>>>I have a vague feeling it comes from their paternal grandfather
>>>spending large parts of career in Arab and African parts. Well
>>>that is his excuse for the phrasing, but talking to him is more
>>>like dealing with Wodehouse than Chan, an unfortunate character-
>>>istic which the #1 seems to have inherited.
>> - _can't_ be an heritable characteristic:
>> wodehouse had no jeans
>
>Oh ppint! that merits a copy of Long Tusk at the very least.
>
>Shame shame on you :]
- umm, quite possibly, quite possibly - though i must admit
that i was rather proud of that one, myself; but what might
"a copy of Long Tusk" be - other than a megadontish ap-pre-
hensile of a misguidedly molarstationary nature ?
>
>>[reformatted:]
[..]
>>>Is that equivalent to being the primary stooge on Star Trek?
>> - the one in the red sweatshirt ?
>> (well, it would explain why we never saw other sons again.)
>
>spermbanks, ppint dear, spermbanks...
- <gasp> we canna do it, cap'n - <gasp> the sperm banks canna
do it - <gasp> they're too depleted to make a stain ! - <gasp>
(- should all fertile men be obliged to wear red ? - eqmwtk)
[- or did you mean that charlie chan - or you - feel you have
so many sons, that so long as one of them survives to achieve
fertilisation...?]
>
>>[reformatted:]
>>>>But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though
>>>>I am *much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>.
>>>Absolutely, we both are...I'll sidle by you...
>> - getting crabby in our old ages, are we, now ?
>
>Would that put us in the group: Crustancients?? 0:]
- karen, karen; would i call you an old crouton ?
[..]
>> would it have been in the early seventies, when i would
>> sometimes forsake the dubious delights of the informal
>> practical seminars upon probability run privately by one
>> brian stableford in langwith jcr [a], for the greater
>> warmth of the main tv room, whilst writing up my official
>> practical reports ?
>
>Which was more enjoyable?
- the practical probability seminars, definitely - and by
_far_.. ..but after winning more than a term's full grant
on one hand, i woke up and realised just how stupid i was
being - i was betting more than i, or some of the others,
could sensibly afford to lose; and i stopped "cold turkey".
>
>> - but [.. ..] "bananana.. ..nananana splits" (<*yeuchh*>) ?
>> - nope; never seen 'em, never heard 'em, never even _heard_
>> of 'em; - they can't've been up to much... [b]
>>
>> * space for gasps of horror, cries of "heresy!" etc, etc. *
>
>"heresy" - in fact doesn't the Goddess herself possess videos of the
>"White Horses"? Or were they overpriced I don't recall.
- alas and alack, here i cannot help; i do not know what the
bellinghwoman's taste in tele-tack may be: perhaps you should
consult a higher authority ?
>
>>>>Coat, hat, scarf and gloves on and gaining pace...
>>>on whom dear?
>> - argggggh! - it's the attack of the animate trousseau !
>
>You have been watching videos of Bedknobs and Broomsticks and ICM5UKP
>
>ttfn,
>
>(karen)
>
- sorry, nope; this ppint. is innocent of all charges - well,
of all such charges, anyway: that is a book i have never even
opened, let alone read; & as for voluntarily viewing a video
of a book before reading that upon which it was based - well !
- so, sorry dear, but you'll have to cast your nets wider, to
finger the fount of the finery, to which i made reference...
- love, ppint.
["v$af$ppint@" bounces e-mail; drop the "v", to reply o r cc.]
--
"Never Play Leap-Frog with a Unicorn"
- andrew bell, the bookworm, morecambe, c.1974
sandriana
wrote:
>
>
><rife snippery>
>
>> >Nor that crappy dubbed foreign White Horses
>
>To which we used to sing the line *snowy white corsets* :o))
>
>> And the Singing ringing tree? This of course makes it a multi national
>> inter continental thread and not a "uk childrens tv for the middle aged
>> " thread.
>
>Ahh, the Singing Ringing Tree with possibly the ugliest dwarf fella in the
>entire history of ugly dwarf fellas.
>
><snippet>
>
>> >in the mornings during school holidays.
>> >Casey Jones *might* ring a bell (or sound a whistle),
>
>*Steamin' and a-rollin'*
>*When you hear the tootin' of the whistle . .*
>
>morem snip
<fx sings> "Champion the Wonder Horse, Champion the Wonder
Hoooorse....."
Sandriana
--
"Oranges boranges- who said ther ain't no rhyme for oranges?"
Witchy Poo
elfin
> Karen wrote in message ...
> >The arabian nights?
>
> "Size... of an elephant!"
>
> >the Four Musketeers?
>
> With the hanger-on snot-nosed kid?
>
>
> And, of course, the two little Mexican girls with guitars that
> appeared whenever Drooper opened the door.
>
> >favourite old musicals? [yes there is a connection and
> > to be honest there are not that many I do like greatly]
>
> never having seen "Singing in the Rain"
Singing in the Rain starred Gene Kelly, who also played D'Artagnon(sp?)
in The Three Musketeers, way back in the not so early days of color
films. icbw though, karen maybe thinking of a different link.
elfin
--
*News Flash* The universe as we know it ended yesterday
....we are now living in an alternate reality.
Karen
<v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> writes
> - hi; in afparticle, <Mv4IRBBk...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>,
> ka...@lspace.org "Karen" observed, and enquired:
>> ppint. <$a$fpp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> writes
>>>- hi; in afparticle, <1C8WhsEK...@goodgulf.demon.co.uk>,
>>> "Karen" wrote:
>>[..]
>>>>I have a vague feeling it comes from their paternal grandfather
>>>>spending large parts of career in Arab and African parts. Well
>>>>that is his excuse for the phrasing, but talking to him is more
>>>>like dealing with Wodehouse than Chan, an unfortunate character-
>>>>istic which the #1 seems to have inherited.
>>> - _can't_ be an heritable characteristic:
>>> wodehouse had no jeans
>>
>>Oh ppint! that merits a copy of Long Tusk at the very least.
>>
>>Shame shame on you :]
>
> that i was rather proud of that one, myself; but what might
> "a copy of Long Tusk" be - other than a megadontish ap-pre-
> hensile of a misguidedly molarstationary nature ?
Oh ppint - you can't have missed that Dutch favourite 'Mammoth' by
Stephen Baxter?
It is very popular over there but apparently hard to come by so they
take it along to meets and swap, thereby enabling everyone to read it
regularly.
Recently 'Long Tusk', the second volume, was published and they were so
desperate to get a copy that Leo went all the way to Oxford to find it.
Sadly I haven't read the masterwork although they all highly recommend
it. I guess one of them should really give us a decent review of the
novel(s)...
Any offers??
>>>[reformatted:]
>>>>>But I distinctly remember the phrase "number one son" even though
>>>>>I am *much* too young to know any of the details <sidle>.
>>>>Absolutely, we both are...I'll sidle by you...
>>> - getting crabby in our old ages, are we, now ?
>>
>>Would that put us in the group: Crustancients?? 0:]
>
> - karen, karen; would i call you an old crouton ?
only if you wish to become en croute...
>[..]
>>> would it have been in the early seventies, when i would
>>> sometimes forsake the dubious delights of the informal
>>> practical seminars upon probability run privately by one
>>> brian stableford in langwith jcr [a], for the greater
>>> warmth of the main tv room, whilst writing up my official
>>> practical reports ?
>>
>>Which was more enjoyable?
>
> - the practical probability seminars, definitely - and by
> _far_.. ..but after winning more than a term's full grant
> on one hand, i woke up and realised just how stupid i was
> being - i was betting more than i, or some of the others,
> could sensibly afford to lose; and i stopped "cold turkey".
>>
Hm. I was recently told in all seriousness that if New Mexico [or some
place therein] gets an exact tie in an election, the result is
determined by a hand of poker.
I would just so *love* for this to be true...but cannot bring myself to
believe it...
>>> - but [.. ..] "bananana.. ..nananana splits" (<*yeuchh*>) ?
>>> - nope; never seen 'em, never heard 'em, never even _heard_
>>> of 'em; - they can't've been up to much... [b]
>>>
>>> * space for gasps of horror, cries of "heresy!" etc, etc. *
>>
>>"heresy" - in fact doesn't the Goddess herself possess videos of the
>>"White Horses"? Or were they overpriced I don't recall.
>
> - alas and alack, here i cannot help; i do not know what the
> bellinghwoman's taste in tele-tack may be: perhaps you should
> consult a higher authority ?
>>
There is a *higher* authority??