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Re: Carnivorous Races
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ppint. at pplay
May 12, 2013, 5:52:26 PM5/12/13
to
- hi; in article, <kmohl9$v43$2...@dont-email.me>,
"in another place" *,
dal...@cs.queensu.ca "David Lamb" wondered:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>>But you aren't going to have Tolkien sized orc armies.
>
>I don't recall orcs being purely carnivorous. Is that canon? The movie
>might have taken some liberties but I recall the line from Two Towers
>where the boss orc says "meat's back on the menu, boys!". Implied they
>would eat other stuff, too.
- there's no such line in the book; but, whilst i don't believe
that tolkien's orcs should be obliged to conform to jackson's
invention, the uruk hai - the orcs under ugluk, from isengard -
did carry hard, grey bread with them on their raid, together
with dried meat. merry and pippin were fed both, once the orcs
stopped for long enough to sort themselves and their captives
out, and forcibly given some restorative draught by ugluk, who
also smeared gunk onto merry's forehead, treating his wound.
ugluk cheered the orcs to look forward to feasting on horse-
flesh "or something better", once they'd dealt with the horse-
devils; they were doomed to be disappointed on this point, though...
- somewhat later on, and many miles away, gorbag suggests that
frodo's worthless, save for adding to the pot; shagrat, captain
of the tower, disagrees with him (not only because of specific
orders from lugburz), and orders his clothed, cold body be taken
to the secure room at the top of his tower, intact & unsearched,
whilst he organises the sending of a messenger to lugburz (the
barad-dur). the orcs siezed the remnants of the food frodo had
from ithilien, so presumably they found it palatable; but they
hated the lembas from lorien, and trampled it all over the floor.
- so i think you can safely act on the basis that orcs are
omnivores, pretty much like humans - but'll accept beef, horse-
flesh or mutton, and can subsist on soups and stews made from
pulses, vegetables, seeds and whosever meat or bones they can
scrounge to flavour 'em.
- but the question of how a militarist culture could develop
amongst obligate carnivores is a great one, and could provide
the basis for very interestingly nasty settings into which to
lead a party of adventurers.
- and it's one that i think'd be fun developing more generally.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
[* - n.b. cross-posted; follow-up set to afp at the moment]
--
"The Dinner was loose again."
- _Chanur's Homecoming_, C. J. Cherryh, 1987
Phantasia, Daw & Methuen Books
"in another place" *,
dal...@cs.queensu.ca "David Lamb" wondered:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>>But you aren't going to have Tolkien sized orc armies.
>
>I don't recall orcs being purely carnivorous. Is that canon? The movie
>might have taken some liberties but I recall the line from Two Towers
>where the boss orc says "meat's back on the menu, boys!". Implied they
>would eat other stuff, too.
- there's no such line in the book; but, whilst i don't believe
that tolkien's orcs should be obliged to conform to jackson's
invention, the uruk hai - the orcs under ugluk, from isengard -
did carry hard, grey bread with them on their raid, together
with dried meat. merry and pippin were fed both, once the orcs
stopped for long enough to sort themselves and their captives
out, and forcibly given some restorative draught by ugluk, who
also smeared gunk onto merry's forehead, treating his wound.
ugluk cheered the orcs to look forward to feasting on horse-
flesh "or something better", once they'd dealt with the horse-
devils; they were doomed to be disappointed on this point, though...
- somewhat later on, and many miles away, gorbag suggests that
frodo's worthless, save for adding to the pot; shagrat, captain
of the tower, disagrees with him (not only because of specific
orders from lugburz), and orders his clothed, cold body be taken
to the secure room at the top of his tower, intact & unsearched,
whilst he organises the sending of a messenger to lugburz (the
barad-dur). the orcs siezed the remnants of the food frodo had
from ithilien, so presumably they found it palatable; but they
hated the lembas from lorien, and trampled it all over the floor.
- so i think you can safely act on the basis that orcs are
omnivores, pretty much like humans - but'll accept beef, horse-
flesh or mutton, and can subsist on soups and stews made from
pulses, vegetables, seeds and whosever meat or bones they can
scrounge to flavour 'em.
- but the question of how a militarist culture could develop
amongst obligate carnivores is a great one, and could provide
the basis for very interestingly nasty settings into which to
lead a party of adventurers.
- and it's one that i think'd be fun developing more generally.
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
[* - n.b. cross-posted; follow-up set to afp at the moment]
--
"The Dinner was loose again."
- _Chanur's Homecoming_, C. J. Cherryh, 1987
Phantasia, Daw & Methuen Books
larry
May 13, 2013, 7:07:22 AM5/13/13
to
On Sun, 12 May 2013 22:52:26 +0100, ppint. at pplay wrote:
> - but the question of how a militarist culture could develop
amongst
> obligate carnivores is a great one, and could provide the basis
for
> very interestingly nasty settings into which to lead a party of
> adventurers.
>
> - and it's one that i think'd be fun developing more generally.
>
Larry Niven's kzin perhaps?
> - but the question of how a militarist culture could develop
amongst
> obligate carnivores is a great one, and could provide the basis
for
> very interestingly nasty settings into which to lead a party of
> adventurers.
>
> - and it's one that i think'd be fun developing more generally.
>
Message has been deleted
GaryN
May 13, 2013, 9:08:39 AM5/13/13
to
Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote in
news:slrnkp1mpk....@ananke.local:
> In message <kmqhh9$h4f$1...@dont-email.me>
> I like Larry Niven, but I never found the Kzin race all that
> interesting or believable. The society seemed too -- well, not to put
> to fine a point on it, too human male.
>
I found much the same in C.J. Cherryh's "Chanur" books. OK the roles
were reversed with males being treated (largely) like hive queens and
the females doing all the work, fighting, flying starships, etc but the
attitude was 'aggressive human male'
Were the Shand in 'Strata' not obligate carnivores? It's a long time
since I read it and I don't have a copy to hand.
gary
--
"I'm not twisted.
I'm a tortured soul in a flexible body"
The Contortionist in 'MicMacs'
news:slrnkp1mpk....@ananke.local:
> In message <kmqhh9$h4f$1...@dont-email.me>
> interesting or believable. The society seemed too -- well, not to put
> to fine a point on it, too human male.
>
I found much the same in C.J. Cherryh's "Chanur" books. OK the roles
were reversed with males being treated (largely) like hive queens and
the females doing all the work, fighting, flying starships, etc but the
attitude was 'aggressive human male'
Were the Shand in 'Strata' not obligate carnivores? It's a long time
since I read it and I don't have a copy to hand.
gary
--
"I'm not twisted.
I'm a tortured soul in a flexible body"
The Contortionist in 'MicMacs'
Gary R. Schmidt
May 13, 2013, 9:30:41 AM5/13/13
to
near to hand - I re-read "Strata" a couple of weeks ago.
Some Shandii diplomat(s) apparently lasted 48 hours before they
slaughtered the human crew of their transport ship after the autokitchen
failed.
Cheers,
Gary B-)
--
When men talk to their friends, they insult each other.
They don't really mean it.
When women talk to their friends, they compliment each other.
They don't mean it either.
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