[I]Christmas Query
momo
It might be a bit early to despair, but I already have
this question concerning Christmas:
If you had the means to bake just one batch of cookies,
which ones would you make? I need some recipies to show the Japanese
what the Western world does in December.... I have already presented
my host family with Advent calendars and started playing songs
about snow, candles and blue birds, etc ;-)
Now I just need some measures and directions, as how to convey
the spirit of Christmas cooking <g>
Thanks in advance:-)
All the best,
Momo
Suzi
news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
> Hey Guys,
> It might be a bit early to despair, but I already have
> this question concerning Christmas:
> If you had the means to bake just one batch of cookies,
> which ones would you make?
Chocolate Chip
> I need some recipies to show the Japanese
> what the Western world does in December....
s/Western world/USA/ :-)
> I have already presented
> my host family with Advent calendars and started playing songs
> about snow, candles and blue birds, etc ;-)
> Now I just need some measures and directions, as how to convey
> the spirit of Christmas cooking <g>
> Thanks in advance:-)
Christmas Pudding would be a far better "Western" Christmas-specific
dish to prepare methinks :-)
Suzi
Supermouse
<momo...@hotmail.com> writes
>It might be a bit early to despair, but I already have this question
>concerning Christmas: If you had the means to bake just one batch of
>cookies, which ones would you make? I need some recipies to show the
>Japanese what the Western world does in December....
Mixed spice is very christmassy - a batch of mixed spice biscuits
(cookies) smells of yuletide to me.
Cordially,
--
Supermouse
Wee sleekit cowerin' tim'rous beastie - with attitude!
Supermouse
<Bra...@mothernature.co.uk> writes
>Christmas Pudding would be a far better "Western" Christmas-specific
>dish to prepare methinks :-)
Maybe, but many, many people do not like the stuff at all, so it might
be better to go for something less traditional but, well, edible.
Partially,
--
Supermouse
My name is Supermouse, Rodent of Rodents.
Look on my cheese, Ye Mighty, and despair!
Stewart Tolhurst
Bra...@mothernature.co.uk says...
s/Western/British
Biscuits are probably more universally traditional Christmas goodies
than Christmas Pudding. I'd go with mouse - mixed spice star shaped
biscuits, preferably with icing, should be suitably Christmassy.
/me wonders idly where you might be able to get suitable decorations -
like silver balls in Japan.....
Stewart
Mary Messall
> momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
> > what the Western world does in December....
> s/Western world/USA/ :-)
Advent calendars and Christmas cookies and songs about snow were *not*
invented in the US. Much as Americans might like to think we invented
everything...
Most of our Christmas customs (the tree, at least) we stole from
Germany. And most of them are celebrated nearly everywhere in Europe.
Now, if she'd said she was trying to show what the Western World did in
December by, say, giving people black eyes in holiday sale mobs and
playing instrumental carols on half hour loops at ridiculously slow
tempos in every building and running dozens of commercials featuring
Santa Clause eating various kinds of junk food, *then* you might be
able to s/Western world/USA.
And my favorite kind of cookies are snicker-doodles, but chocolate chip
are probably the most traditional.
-Mary
--
{I drank at every vine. / The last was like the first. / I came upon
no wine / So wonderful as thirst.} {"Heaven bless the babe!" they said
"What queer books she must have read!"} -two by Edna St Vincent Millay
http://indagabo.orcon.net.nz --> my soapbox and grandstand and gallery
Mary Messall
> Santa Clause eating various kinds of junk food, *then* you might be
Argh. Why do I keep doing this? For the record, I know that "Santa
Claus" does not have an "e", that "obvious" does not have a "y" at the
end, that "cheesy" does not have an "e" before the y, and that "cheeky"
does not have a "c" in it. I really am going to have to start using
spell check, irritating as it is, if I'm going to keep making typos
like this. I don't like cringing every time I read one of my own posts.
Orjan Westin
news:3C0B6EF4...@durham.ac.uk...
>
> For the record, I know that [...] "cheeky" does not have a "c" in it.
^
Um...
Orjan
John Leith
<m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>I don't like cringing every time I read one of my own posts.
My solution is:
Make the best job of the post I can,
Wonder whether I realy want to send it[1],
and the most important part, if I send it I don't read it myself and
hope that the nice people around here realise that mistakes are
induced by the speed of the medium[2].
That's my excuse
All the best
John Leith
[1] 90% of the time I think "What a load of tosh I have just written"
and bin it.
[2] and a Carrotesque attitude to punctuation.
--
nos...@birdy.dircon.co.uk - That is really my e-mail address.
AFP Code 1.1a AC$ d+ s:+ a UP++ R+ F++ h+ P5+ OS--: C++++ M- pp--- L+ c
B+ Cn PT++ Pu40- 5++ !X MT+ eV+>+++ r++++ y+++
http://www.appiehouse.co.uk
Suzi
[Snip]
> And my favorite kind of cookies are snicker-doodles,
??? whats ???
> but chocolate chip are probably the most traditional.
This was the point about Western =/= USA that I was trying to make...
cookies are more of an American thing (we have biscuits over here <g>)
Suzi
Richard Bos
> Mary Messall wrote:
> > Santa Clause eating various kinds of junk food, *then* you might be
> ^
>
> Argh. Why do I keep doing this?
Because subconsciously, you know that there ain't no Sanity Clause?
Ok, ok, I'll get my coat again.
> I really am going to have to start using spell check,
Erm... that wouldn't have helped you here, probably.
Richard
Yannick Larvor
> In article <9ufgqp$bou$1...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk>,
> Bra...@mothernature.co.uk says...
>> momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
>> > I already have this question concerning Christmas: If you had the
>> > means to bake just one batch of cookies, which ones would you make?
[...]
>> > I need some recipies to show the Japanese what the Western world
>> > does in December....
>>
>> s/Western world/USA/ :-)
My thought, exactly.
>> Christmas Pudding would be a far better "Western" Christmas-specific
>> dish to prepare methinks :-)
> s/Western/British
My thought, exactly :-)
> Biscuits are probably more universally traditional Christmas goodies
> than Christmas Pudding.
Biscuits? What biscuits? Come on, everybody knows it should be "Bûche de
Noël" !
Whaddaya mean, s/Western/French?
--
Yannick
And "Marrons glacés". And "Truffes au chocolat". And... Damn, I'm hungry
now.
phil...@see.signature.uk
>Hey Guys,
>It might be a bit early to despair, but I already have
>this question concerning Christmas:
>If you had the means to bake just one batch of cookies,
>which ones would you make?
Hmmmmmmm
Do mince pies count as 'cookies'?
If not, then brandy snaps.
Philippa
Jennifer Gray
Messall <m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> paused to say:
(...)
> and that "cheeky"
>does not have a "c" in it.
Heeky?
Love from
Jennifer
--
AFPniece to Irina, AFPiancee to Shim, AFPsister to James and Mary.
Also a Guardian Angel in Heaven's Little Angels, etc.
AFPcode 2.0: AM/P/E d- s-: a-- U++ R++ F++ h P- OS:- C+++ M-- pp L I? W-
c B+ Cn CC- PT--- Pu60+* 5- X-- MT e>+ r? x- end
Jean S and/or Jeff C
<Super...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>In article <e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com>, momo
><momo...@hotmail.com> writes
>>It might be a bit early to despair, but I already have this question
>>concerning Christmas: If you had the means to bake just one batch of
>>cookies, which ones would you make? I need some recipies to show the
>>Japanese what the Western world does in December....
>
>Mixed spice is very christmassy - a batch of mixed spice biscuits
>(cookies) smells of yuletide to me.
I'll see you your mixed spice and raise you a set of gingerbread men
and/or gingerbread house complete with icing 'snow' and baubles. Just
make a Biiiiiiig batch : )
--
Jeff C
Mary Messall
> And then, on Mon, 3 Dec 2001, while fighting an evil Balrog, Mary
> Messall <m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> paused to say:
> (...)
> > and that "cheeky"
> >does not have a "c" in it.
> Heeky?
:-P
I give up, really I do.
-Mary (hey, afpsister, let me know how you like Cambridge. Not even
providing lunch, I'm told?)
flesh_eating_dragon
> Biscuits are probably more universally traditional Christmas goodies
> than Christmas Pudding.
What?
I've never heard of Christmas being associated with biscuits.
Pudding, yes.
Adrian.
geoff...@hotmail.com
>
> In article <9ufgqp$bou$1...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk>, Suzi
> <Bra...@mothernature.co.uk> writes
>>Christmas Pudding would be a far better "Western" Christmas-specific
>>dish to prepare methinks :-)
>
> Maybe, but many, many people do not like the stuff at all, so it might
> be better to go for something less traditional but, well, edible.
*Ice cream* Plum Pudding.
That's what _we_ have planned for Christmas this year.
Of course, it helps that Christmas here is often in the 40 degree (Celsius)
range...
Geoff
--
Geoff Field, Professional geek, amateur stage-levelling gauge.
Spamtraps: geoff...@hotmail.com, gcf...@bigmailbox.net, or
geoff...@great-atuin.co.uk; Real Email: gcfield at optusnet dot com dot au
My band's web page: http://www.geocities.com/southernarea/
flesh_eating_dragon
> Because subconsciously, you know that there ain't no Sanity Clause?
Tomorrow night I'm going to a dinner by the Australian Skeptics
featuring a talk on "The Dark Secrets of Santa".
Quoting from
<http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/news/othevent.htm>
A mafia-like brotherhood of elves, led by a mysterious hoary,
eldritch, eidolon figure, known by a variety of aliases, (Santa
Claus, Saint Nicholas, Saint Nick, and perhaps even Old Nick), who
operate out of clandestine headquarters at the outermost boreal
extremities of the northern polar regions, has been under suspicion
for some time now. Only venturing out during the hours of darkness,
dressed in a bizarre red and white costume, and operating in a
dubious manner, their principal modus operandi appears to be the
invasion of a innumerable number of the domiciles of innocent
children, gaining dubious ingress by way of chimneys, and then,
when ensconced in the aforementioned dwellings, performing
inexplicable acts of auto-reciprocation, thereby encouraging the
stultification of cultural development by disseminating a deferred
legacy of post-modernistic capitalistic cravings amongst the
innocent infantile minds.
The Christmas Being; what is he?
A kindly gift-giving sainted bishop, or a demon that disembowels
children? Reports gleaned from reliable sources ranging from the
Internet to Buffy the Vampire Slayer differ on this question, but
the fact that he is known to operate under a variety of aliases and
guises raises doubts as to the benevolent image.
How did Santa Claus gain the monopoly of the Christmas racket?
Did St Nicholas have a gender-reassignment?
Mr. Allan Lang from the Skeptics will examine these questions,
tracing the oft neglected origin of Santa Christmas in European
mythology. Also the question "Is there a Santa Claus?" will be
definitively answered.
momo
> > momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
> > > I need some recipies to show the Japanese
> > > what the Western world does in December....
>
> are probably the most traditional.
>
Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
chocolate chip/ cinnamon cookies or a proper Christmas dinner. *sigh*
Take pity on me and elaborate:-)
<christmas rush>
The Western World has commercialized Christmas pretty badly, I agree.
But here in Japan it was just something to sell to begin with. The
25th of December equals Santa Claus and his reindeer and gardens are
already adorned with all those light-bulb chains and stars. Silent
Night is an American Christmas song.... I seriously upset people's
world view if I say it's German. It just proves to show, I guess.
All the best,
Momo
Stewart Tolhurst
morgan...@netyp.com.au says...
Christmas Pudding is a Victorian England invention (so in the general
scheme of things not that traditional when compared with some of the
other Christmas traditions). Not very common outside of the UK (and it
seems the colonies - though why a .auian would have rich stodgy Christmas
Pudding in the middle of summer goodness knows....).
IIRC the genesis of Christmas Pudding was not actually a dessert - it was
more an accompianment to the main course.
I'm pretty sure that Biscuits will be more traditional across the rest of
Europe.
Stewart
--
"I don't dance." - Angel (Angel: She)
Stewart Tolhurst
http://www.foxbasealpha.co.uk ICQ 22636339
Stewart Tolhurst
momo...@hotmail.com says...
> Mary Messall <m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message news:
> <3C0B6C9A...@durham.ac.uk>...
> > Suzi wrote:
> > > momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
> > > > I need some recipies to show the Japanese
> > > > what the Western world does in December....
> >
> > And my favorite kind of cookies are snicker-doodles, but
> > chocolate chip are probably the most traditional.
> >
>
> Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
> already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
> now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
I you wanted to make proper Christmas Pudding you probably should have
started in October.....
> chocolate chip/ cinnamon cookies or a proper Christmas dinner. *sigh*
> Take pity on me and elaborate:-)
As for the cookies - try googling, there are loads of recipe sites out
there, its how I got my Pumpkin Pie recipe.
Traditional Christmas dinner may be hard to do in Japan - I'm not sure
what vegetables and the like you would be able to get. Certainly a
traditional Christmas dinner in .uk would be Turkey, stuffing, piggies in
blankets (little sausages wrapped in bacon and baked), roast potatos,
roast parsnips, carrots (honey glazed with ground coriander is my
preference), peas, bread sauce, cranberry sauce (a .us invention - but I
like cranberries a lot) and loads of gravy.
Stewart
--
"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in
human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila."
Quantum Moth
>
> Christmas Pudding is a Victorian England invention (so in the general
> scheme of things not that traditional when compared with some of the
> other Christmas traditions). Not very common outside of the UK (and it
> seems the colonies - though why a .auian would have rich stodgy Christmas
> Pudding in the middle of summer goodness knows....).
>
> IIRC the genesis of Christmas Pudding was not actually a dessert - it was
> more an accompianment to the main course.
>
that the pudding was a kind of extension of the whole "pie with the bean
in it" stuff that.. well, that is better detailed in Hogfather. WHat
with all the sixpences buried inside, and that.
Or have I got the wrong end of the snowman's arm again?
[1]Though I do know most of the scripts for "History Today[2]".
[2]"See that Eddie 'The Eagle' Edwards? That's you that is. That's your
mum."
--
\\\\\ .o0(thom willis - Corinne's Worse Half)
\\\\\\\__o(http://sanctuary.orcon.net.nz | http://www.maskerade.org.uk)
_\\\\\\\'/_(well, i haven't come on this programme to be insulted)
Yannick Larvor
> Silent Night is an American Christmas song.... I seriously upset
> people's world view if I say it's German.
"Stiiiiille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
Er... That's what's left after 6 years of learning German. And I'm not
sure it's even correct.
Oh wait, I know "Bruder Jakob" up to the first "Ding deng dong" too!
And "O Tannenbaum!". (er, just those two words from the song, actually
:-).
--
Yannick
Guitar Huw
"Yannick Larvor" <ylsp...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:yrc4rn7...@irit.fr...
<snip>
> "Stiiiiille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
> Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
>
> Er... That's what's left after 6 years of learning German. And I'm
not
> sure it's even correct.
From http://www.stillenacht.at/german/index.htm
Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft; einsam wacht
Nur das traute heilige Paar.
Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
But, going back to when I last did German (long, long time ago), I
seem to think there's a word missing in the above version.
Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
Huw
afpfinace to Kimmi
Guitar Huw
> Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
> Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
>
> Er... That's what's left after 6 years of learning German. And I'm
>not sure it's even correct.
From http://www.stillenacht.at/german/index.htm
Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft; einsam wacht
Nur das traute heilige Paar.
Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
But, going back to when I last did German (long, long time ago), I
seem to think there's a word missing in the above version.
Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
Huw
afpfiance to Kimmi
Peter Ellis
>momo wrote:
>
>> Silent Night is an American Christmas song.... I seriously upset
>> people's world view if I say it's German.
>
>"Stiiiiille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
>Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
.. einsam wacht.
>Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
Nur das traute hoch-heilige Paar,
Holde Knabe im lockigen Haar.
Schlaf in himmlische Ruh!
Schlaf in himmlische Ruh.
Any Germans care to tell me how close that version is? I don't *think*
it's out by more than one or two misspellings and possible problems with
adjective/noun agreement. [1]
I could make a stab at a translation too, and at least half of at least
one more verse (though possibly assembled out of lines drawn from four or
five of them...*g*)
Actually, I think I prefer the German version to the English - German is a
lovely language to sing in.
Peter
[1] How to tell English people are less argumentative than Germans - our
adjectives and nouns agree without having to be legislated into it.
Stewart Tolhurst
says...
> Stewart Tolhurst <ne...@stolhurst.freeuk.com> said...
> >
> > Christmas Pudding is a Victorian England invention (so in the general
> > scheme of things not that traditional when compared with some of the
> > other Christmas traditions). Not very common outside of the UK (and it
> > seems the colonies - though why a .auian would have rich stodgy Christmas
> > Pudding in the middle of summer goodness knows....).
> >
> > IIRC the genesis of Christmas Pudding was not actually a dessert - it was
> > more an accompianment to the main course.
> >
> Quite obviously, I'm not a historian[1], but I was under the impression
> that the pudding was a kind of extension of the whole "pie with the bean
> in it" stuff that.. well, that is better detailed in Hogfather. WHat
> with all the sixpences buried inside, and that.
>
> Or have I got the wrong end of the snowman's arm again?
I can't belive I just did this....
Having googled for the history of Christmas Pudding I came up with this:
http://www.wickham.newbury.sch.uk/xmas/pudding.html
Seems I was right. Kinda. But it is *much* older than I thought....
Stewart
--
Work is the curse of the drinking classes. (Oscar Wilde)
Mary Messall
<snip>
> Oh wait, I know "Bruder Jakob" up to the first "Ding deng dong" too!
> And "O Tannenbaum!". (er, just those two words from the song, actually
> :-).
It's a bit generous counting "O" as a word, I think. <g>
I still remember a very Christmassy one I had to learn in German:
Draussen weht es bittekalt
Wer kommt da durch den winter Wald?
Stip-stap stip-stap huckepack (spelling here is total guesswork)
Ruprecht ist mit seinem Sach!
Was ist denn in den Sache drin?
Apfel, Mandel, und Raisin (er...)
Und schone Zucker-rosen.
Auch Pfernoess, fur guete Kind
Die Anderen, die night artig sind
Er klaupf er auf die Hosen!
Feel free to offer corrections. I believe it translates roughly
"Outside, it blows bitter cold / who comes through the winter woods? /
<crunch-crunch crunch-crunch and snap snap> / It is Ruprecht with his
sack! / When is then in that sack therein / appels almonds and raisins
/ and pretty sugar-roses / and peppernuts, for the good child / the
other, who won't do his work / He hits them on the trousers!"
Which I must say is worse than mere coal in the stocking. This Ruprecht
sounds like a nasty fellow.
-Mary (also remembers "Bache Bache kuechen, der Baecker had
gerufen...")
Topi Saavalainen
> Stewart Tolhurst wrote:
>
> > In article <9ufgqp$bou$1...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk>,
> > Bra...@mothernature.co.uk says...
> >> momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com...
>
> >> > I already have this question concerning Christmas: If you had the
> >> > means to bake just one batch of cookies, which ones would you make?
> [...]
> >> > I need some recipies to show the Japanese what the Western world
> >> > does in December....
> >>
> >> s/Western world/USA/ :-)
>
> My thought, exactly.
>
> >> Christmas Pudding would be a far better "Western" Christmas-specific
> >> dish to prepare methinks :-)
>
> > s/Western/British
>
> My thought, exactly :-)
>
> > Biscuits are probably more universally traditional Christmas goodies
> > than Christmas Pudding.
>
> Noėl" !
Bush what? Anyway, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned swede casserole
yet. You can't have a Christmas without it, for heaven's sake!
Topi.
Orjan Westin
news:781be8e4.01120...@posting.google.com...
>
> Anyway, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned swede casserole yet.
/me cringes, then notices the lack of capitals
Orjan
Brian Howlett
> In article <e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com>,
> momo...@hotmail.com says...
[snip]
>>
>> Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
>> already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
>> now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
>
> I you wanted to make proper Christmas Pudding you probably should have
> started in October.....
>
[snip]
>
And the sprouts should have been on to boil since April...
--
Brian Howlett
----------------------------------------------------
What's the difference betweeen ignorance and apathy?
I don't know and I don't care...
Maaike
> And my favorite kind of cookies are snicker-doodles, but chocolate chip
> are probably the most traditional.
I have never in my life heard of snicker-doodles, but the name alone
has riveted my curiosity to this thread until you provide a definition
and a recipe. <g>
Anyways, chocolate chip cookies aren't traditional; you want
shortbread and fudge and a Buche de Noel (darn keyboard) and tourtiere
(darn keyboard) and speculaas Sinterklaaseseses and...
-Maaike (Half Quebecoise, half sort of Dutch, all confused.<g>)
Sandriana
snip
>Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
>already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
>now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
>chocolate chip/ cinnamon cookies or a proper Christmas dinner. *sigh*
>Take pity on me and elaborate:-)
>
This is a good basic sugar cookie recipe which I've had for ages and
works really well. it's also simple enough for children to do. It can be
elaborated into ginger cookies by adding 1 tsp ginger and substituting
brown sugar, and into spice cookies by adding 1/4 tsp each of cinnamon,
ginger, and nutmeg and a pinch of cloves, and to lemon cookies by adding
about 1/2 lemons worth of zest and juice.
Christmas Cookies
1 3/4 cups plain flour
1/2 cup sugar 1/4 tsp salt
1 med egg 1/4 tsp Bicarb of soda
1/2 tsp vanilla
Cream the butter and sugar till light and fluffy: add the egg and
vanilla and beat till well combined. Add the dry ingredients and mix
till well incorporated. Wrap the resulting dough in plastic wrap and
chill for at least 30 mins. Roll it out on a floured board and cut with
christmas cutters, eg stars, trees etc. Alternatively, roll dough into a
sausage shape, wrap and chill again and cut into slices. Place on a
baking sheet lined with greaseproof paper or baking parchment and bake
8-10 mins at 350f/180c gas mk5 [1], till just set but not brown. When
cool decorate with icing in various festive patterns.
[1] People may wish to double check the gas regulo, I haven't a
conversion chart to hand. Also, reduce the heat by 25f if you have a fan
oven.
--
Sandriana
'Get crazy with the Cheese Whiz'
Stewart Tolhurst
Brian_...@btinternet.com says...
> On 4 Dec, Stewart Tolhurst exclaimed:
>
> > In article <e4b855d9.01120...@posting.google.com>,
> > momo...@hotmail.com says...
> [snip]
> >>
> >> Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
> >> already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
> >> now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
> >
> > I you wanted to make proper Christmas Pudding you probably should have
> > started in October.....
> >
> [snip]
> >
> And the sprouts should have been on to boil since April...
Therein lies the problem with most peoples perception of sprouts - they
get cooked for far too long and end up slop.
Cook 'em until they are al dente then dress with olive oil and lemon
juice.
Yummy :)
Stewart
--
"Uh, I'll operate the teleport. A visit to Servalan appeals to me rather
less than going bald, or breaking both legs." Vila (B7: Rumours of Death)
Melody S-K
"Stewart Tolhurst" <ne...@stolhurst.freeuk.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.167706dbd...@news.ntlworld.com...
> Therein lies the problem with most peoples perception of
sprouts - they
> get cooked for far too long and end up slop.
>
> Cook 'em until they are al dente then dress with olive oil
and lemon
> juice.
/Whois Al dente?
And Popeye could object to you dressing with Olive Oil ;)
Melody
--
Hey, if you cut off your foot, you wouldn't keep putting it
in your mouth, but your body wouldn't be the same, would it?
Kimmi
<guita...@hotmail.fish.fish.com> wrote:
<snip everything, but sig>
>Huw
>afpfinace to Kimmi
Wow. My very own afpfinance. <overcome> Does this mean I get to
spend all your money? Or do you just advise me on the spending of
my own money? I prefer the first option, naturally... <g, d&r>
Kimmi
afpfiancee to Huw
Reply-to is valid...
Maaike
>
<snip song>
> Feel free to offer corrections. I believe it translates roughly
> "Outside, it blows bitter cold / who comes through the winter woods? /
> <crunch-crunch crunch-crunch and snap snap> / It is Ruprecht with his
> sack! / When is then in that sack therein / appels almonds and raisins
> / and pretty sugar-roses / and peppernuts, for the good child / the
> other, who won't do his work / He hits them on the trousers!"
That's almost what I had; I think it's 'the other, who isn't good,'
though.
> Which I must say is worse than mere coal in the stocking. This Ruprecht
> sounds like a nasty fellow.
<big eeeeevilll grin> You've never heard of Pere Fouettard (darn
keyboard!), have you?
-Maaike
Marco Villalta
wrote:
That *was* a close shave... <8-o *phew*
--
Marco Villalta
This is a.f.p -- expect anything!
(Read the FAQs!)
geoff...@hotmail.com
>
> In article <732e2927.01120...@posting.google.com>,
> morgan...@netyp.com.au says...
>> Stewart Tolhurst wrote
>>
>> > Biscuits are probably more universally traditional Christmas goodies
>> > than Christmas Pudding.
>>
>> What?
>>
>> I've never heard of Christmas being associated with biscuits.
>>
>> Pudding, yes.
>
> Christmas Pudding is a Victorian England invention (so in the general
> scheme of things not that traditional when compared with some of the
> other Christmas traditions). Not very common outside of the UK (and it
> seems the colonies - though why a .auian would have rich stodgy Christmas
> Pudding in the middle of summer goodness knows....).
As I said in another post on this thread *Icecream* Plum Pudding is the
way to go down here.
> IIRC the genesis of Christmas Pudding was not actually a dessert - it was
> more an accompianment to the main course.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Biscuits will be more traditional across the rest of
> Europe.
--
geoff...@hotmail.com
[snip various German(ish) versions of Silent Night]
> Actually, I think I prefer the German version to the English - German is a
> lovely language to sing in.
And, of course, it's a great language to swear in, too.
Geoff
Marco Villalta
> Mary Messall <m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote
> >
<snip>
[The issue of translating "Die Anderen, die night artig sind"]
> > the other, who won't do his work / He hits them on the trousers!"
>
> That's almost what I had; I think it's 'the other, who isn't good,'
> though.
I'd say "who are[1] not polite", but I'm not German, so I'll shut
up now.
--------
[1] Yes, "the others", in plural.
--
Marco Villalta
"Strong is the power of the yodaspeak."
-- Aquarion on a.f.p, 2001-11-28
Richard Eney
momo <momo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Such a shame I left all my recipes at home, otherwise I would have
>already started baking. How ever much I want to don an apron right
>now, I still lack any directions as how to make Christmas pudding,
>chocolate chip/ cinnamon cookies or a proper Christmas dinner. *sigh*
>Take pity on me and elaborate:-)
What type of measurements are you accustomed to? Do you have UK, German,
US, Japanese, other type of cooking implements available? If I give a
recipe in US style cups and teaspoons, will it be hopeless? Do you have
to weigh things out, use handfuls and pinches and a dab of this and that,
use a Japanese teacup for a flour measure? This might be helpful
information for those who want to send recipes.
=Tamar
Carrie Cota
say with his bare face hanging out:
Well, maybe it is a result of being only half-merkin, but to me
Christmas means toffee, pecan logs and pfeffernusse. I do make
"Tollhouse" (r) choclate chip cookies as well. And sugar cookies, and
snicker-doodles.
Carrie
--
"I look from the wings at the play you are staging/while my guitar gently weeps
While I'm sitting here do nothing but aging./Still my guitar getnly weeps. -George Harrison RIP
Sandriana
<delete.all.befor...@cybermejl.com> wrote:
>Orjan Westin <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> Topi Saavalainen <topisaa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:781be8e4.01120...@posting.google.com...
>> > Anyway, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned swede casserole yet.
>> /me cringes, then notices the lack of capitals
>That *was* a close shave... <8-o *phew*
I should hope so. Who'd eat a hairy swede casserole?
--
Sandriana
Harvest Specials: Chicken 'n' Cheese Krispy Dippers
(yes,ch-e-e-e-se!),Pork-Style Chicken Tikka Masala
(Give us some more, Mum!), Turkey-Flavoured Yoghurt
(Kids 'gobble' it up!),
Topi Saavalainen
Oh, sorry about that. You see, in finnish we don't use capitals in
language names and wossnames, national adjectives, so I sometimes
forget them.
<tries to grin innocently and evilly simultaniously and strains his
nostril>
Topi.
Eric Jarvis
>
> What type of measurements are you accustomed to?
>
about yay much
for a wide variety of values of yay
--
eric
"I got in touch with my inner child,
he told me to grow up"
Maaike
> Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> [snip various German(ish) versions of Silent Night]
> > Actually, I think I prefer the German version to the English - German is a
> > lovely language to sing in.
>
> And, of course, it's a great language to swear in, too.
Even if you're not using swear words. (Me and a few others from my
German class were considering yelling 'Have a good weekend!' at a
much-hated French teacher on the last day of high school, but we
didn't. She still had to mark our exams.)
-Maaike
raymond larsson
"Topi Saavalainen" <topisaa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:781be8e4.01120...@posting.google.com...
> > Noël" !
>
> Bush what? Anyway, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned swede casserole
> yet. You can't have a Christmas without it, for heaven's sake!
Swede casserole? I'm against it on principle.
Bûche de Noël is translated here as noel log. Go figure.
flesh_eating_dragon
> And Popeye could object to you dressing with Olive Oil ;)
Could not!
Popeye being the stuffed monkey that I brought along to that
Netherlands meet in February 2000.
Adrian.
momo
<snip>
>
> I still remember a very Christmassy one I had to learn in German:
>
> Draussen weht es bittekalt
> Wer kommt da durch den winter Wald?
> Stip-stap stip-stap huckepack (spelling here is total guesswork)
> Ruprecht ist mit seinem Sach!
> Was ist denn in den Sache drin?
> Apfel, Mandel, und Raisin (er...)
> Und schone Zucker-rosen.
> Auch Pfernoess, fur guete Kind
> Die Anderen, die night artig sind
> Er klaupf er auf die Hosen!
>
> Feel free to offer corrections. I believe it translates roughly
> "Outside, it blows bitter cold / who comes through the winter woods? /
> <crunch-crunch crunch-crunch and snap snap> / It is Ruprecht with his
> sack! / When is then in that sack therein / appels almonds and raisins
> / and pretty sugar-roses / and peppernuts, for the good child / the
> other, who won't do his work / He hits them on the trousers!"
>
It's "Rosinen" instead of "Raisins", and I think you meant to write
"Pfeffernuesse" and "klopft".... never mind though, I don't remeber
most Christmas poems I learned as a child, especially foreign ones<g>
> Which I must say is worse than mere coal in the stocking. This Ruprecht
> sounds like a nasty fellow.
Only if you are naughty:-) It's either St. Nick who brings you
presents or Knecht Ruprecht who hits you with his rod. Originally he
is the saint's helper, that's why he is also known as "Knecht
Ruprecht". There's a lot of tradition behind all this, I guess, and it
just evolved over the ages and split up at some moment in the past:
There is one image of him to be just the grumpy man who comes to wip
you, one more which describes him as a Turk, practically a servant to
St. Nick...
>
All the best,
Momo (- it's "The others, who misbehave":-)
momo
I have a measuring cup, no electric mixer but lots of different
sized chopsticks to stir with. US style is just fine:-) We don't
have a stove that's big enough for a turkey or average sized backing
sheets, though. Generally there is no baking envolved in Japanese
cooking. As you all know, some of it is eaten raw (Fish, Cow and
Horse, all alike:-).
So please feel encouraged to send some pointers:-) Thanks in
advance.
All the best,
Momo
momo
> <snip>
> > "Stiiiiille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> > Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
> > Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
> >
> > Er... That's what's left after 6 years of learning German. And I'm
> >not sure it's even correct.
>
> From http://www.stillenacht.at/german/index.htm
>
> Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> Alles schläft; einsam wacht
> Nur das traute heilige Paar.
> Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
> Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
> Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
>
> But, going back to when I last did German (long, long time ago), I
> seem to think there's a word missing in the above version.
>
> Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
Yes, I care<g>
Silent night! Holy night!
Everything is sleeping, only the trusting, holy couple
is waking over the holy infant with curly hair
sleep in heavenly peace
sleep in heavenly peace
That wasn't a literal translation, just to give it some meaning.
As you can see, the English version contains both the first and
last passage:-)
Hope this helped.
All the best,
Momo
Reinhard Schrutzki
momo wrote:
> > Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> > Alles schläft; einsam wacht
> > Nur das traute heilige Paar.
> > Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
> > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
> > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
> >
> > But, going back to when I last did German (long, long time ago), I
> > seem to think there's a word missing in the above version.
> >
> > Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
It´s ´nur das traute hochheilige Paar´ to fit to the melody.
Guitar Huw
"Reinhard Schrutzki" <r.sch...@steinberg.de> wrote in message
news:3C1090BB...@steinberg.de...
>
> > > Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> > > Alles schläft; einsam wacht
> > > Nur das traute heilige Paar.
> > > Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
> > > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
> > > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
> > >
> It´s ´nur das traute hochheilige Paar´ to fit to the melody.
That's it ! I *knew* there was something missing... It's the
'hoch'.
--
Huw
afpfiance to Kimmi
Peter Ellis
>
>"Reinhard Schrutzki" <r.sch...@steinberg.de> wrote in message
>news:3C1090BB...@steinberg.de...
>>
>> > > Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
>> > > Alles schläft; einsam wacht
>> > > Nur das traute heilige Paar.
>> > > Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
>> > > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
>> > > Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
>> > >
>
>> It´s ´nur das traute hochheilige Paar´ to fit to the melody.
>
>That's it ! I *knew* there was something missing... It's the
>'hoch'.
That's what i learned, but given that the site the above wa quoted from
actually has a pictgure of the autograph manuscript, i don't think we can
argue that we're right...
The score shows "traute" being slurred over the three descending notes.
Of course, our version's *better*
Shall I start a thread to collect competing versions of the English words?
I can think of at least three, differing only by a couple of syllables
here and there. The following represents my preferences...
VERSE 1
Silent Night, holy night,
All is calm, all is bright
Round yon virgin mother and child
Holy infant so tender and mild
Sleep in heavenly peace
Sleep in heavenly peace
Other versions are "save the light" instead of "all is bright". Which is
patently silly.
VERSE 2
Silent Night, holy night,
Shepherds quake at the sight.
Glory streams from Heaven afar,
Heavenly hosts sing Alleluia,
Christ the Saviour is here!
Christ the Saviour is here!
This is where there's more debate; you can have "quail" for "quake", or
even replace the whole line with "Shepherds first saw the sight". "Glory
streams" can also be "Glories stream", while Christ can be "born" instead
of "here". And there's all the spellings of (h)allelu[i|j]a(h).
VERSE 3
Silent Night, holy night.
Son of God, Love's pure light.
Radiant beams thy holy face
With the dawn of redeeming grace,
Jesus, Lord at thy birth!
Jesus, Lord at thy birth!
Versions include "God's own son" for "Son of God", "Radiance beams from
thy" for "Radiant beams thy", and "saving" for "redeemingAny more I've
missed? I'll be gobsmacked if not.
Peter
Orjan Westin
*ahem*
Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
Stilla natt, heliga natt
Allt är frid, stjärnan blid
Lyser på barnet i stallets strå
Och de fromma vakande två
Kristus till jorden är kommen,
Oss är en frälsare född
Maybe a multilingual performance of Silent Night at Green Man? Although I'm
coming down with a cold, so I'm not likely to be able to sing very well.
Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt" (CANTIQUE
DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating and full of fiery
brimstone, IYSWIM.
Orjan
Guitar Huw
>"Peter Ellis" <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote
>On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Guitar Huw wrote:
>>
>>"Reinhard Schrutzki" <r.sch...@steinberg.de> wrote in message
>>news:3C1090BB...@steinberg.de...
>>> It´s ´nur das traute hochheilige Paar´ to fit to the melody.
>>
>>That's it ! I *knew* there was something missing... It's the
>>'hoch'.
>
>That's what i learned, but given that the site the above wa quoted
>think we can argue that we're right...
>
there. The quoted version didn't sound right, for my version of
right, but I couldn't recall what was missing.
If you are taught something as a child, you initially accept that
that *is* right.
Why would someone teach you something that was wrong?
It's only as you mature you begin to question the validity of things
you "already know"
The child says "I am right, therefore you are wrong"
The adult says "Your version of right differs from mine, let's find
out why"
And that's half the fun!
>The score shows "traute" being slurred over the three descending
>notes. Of course, our version's *better*
Last time I got into a discussion about slurring syllables over
notes, I ended up getting my coat, so I'm not going there...
>Shall I start a thread to collect competing versions of the English
>words?
<snip>
Possibly, but for me, the more interesting point is *why* they
change.
I am aware that carols and hymns have been rewritten/re-worded to
make them 'modern'. I'm sure that in the days of wandering
ministers, people were taught the version the minister could
remember.
Off the top of his head...
Perhaps there's another thread there?
pia
> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
>
> Stilla natt, heliga natt
> Allt är frid, stjärnan blid
> Lyser på barnet i stallets strå
> Och de fromma vakande två
> Kristus till jorden är kommen,
> Oss är en frälsare född
Jouluyö, juhlayö,
päättynyt kaikk' on työ
Kaks vain valveill' on puolisoa
Lapsen herttaisen nukkuessa
Seimikätkyessään,
seimikätkyessään.
> Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt"
> (CANTIQUE DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating
> and full of fiery brimstone, IYSWIM.
Big AOL. And I do mean Oh Helga Natt. It just isn't the same in any
other language than Swedish.
Oh helga natt, oh helga stund för världen
då gudamänskan till jorden kom ned
För att försona världens brott och synder
för oss han dödens smärta led
Och hoppets stråle går igenom världen
och ljuset skimrar över land och hav
Folk, fall nu neder
och hälsa glatt din frihet
Oh helga natt, du frälsning åt oss gav
Oh helga natt, du frälsning å-å-å-å-åt oss gav
What a pity that I won't be in Green Man, so you cannot hear my Jussi
Björling-imitation.
Another favourite is Gläns Över Sjö Och Strand.
pia
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:15:00 -0000):
> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
> Maybe a multilingual performance of Silent Night at Green Man? Although I'm
> coming down with a cold, so I'm not likely to be able to sing very well.
Well, I recently found 6 English translations alone, and have the words
to German, Swedish and Irish also...
A.
--
Ailbhe's homepage: http://ailbhe.ossifrage.net/
* People I know sell craftwork online:
* Custom knot- & bead-work: http://www.gordiandesigns.com/
* Handpainted glassware & canvas: http://designs.ladykayla.org/
Beth Winter
> Orjan Westin <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote
> (on Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:15:00 -0000):
>
> > Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
>
> > Maybe a multilingual performance of Silent Night at Green Man? Although I'm
> > coming down with a cold, so I'm not likely to be able to sing very well.
>
> Well, I recently found 6 English translations alone, and have the words
> to German, Swedish and Irish also...
Here's Polish, without some diacritic marks:
Cicha noc, swieta noc
Pokój niesie ludziom wszem
A u zlobka Matka swieta
Czuwa sama usmiechnieta
Nad Dzieciatka snem
Nad Dzieciatka snem
Cicha noc, swieta noc
Pastuszkowie od swych trzód
Biegna wielce zadziwieni
Za anielskich glosem pieni
Gdzie sie spelnil cud
Gdzie sie spelnil cud
Cicha noc, swieta noc
Narodzony Bozy Syn
Pan wielkiego majestatu
Niesie dzis calemu swiatu
Odkupienie win
Odkupienie win
It's one of the pretties carols, although Polish does boast some easier to sing
ones, mostly based on folk melodies.
--
Beth Winter
The Discworld Compendium <http://go.to/thediscworldcompendium>
"To absent friends, lost loves, old gods and the season of mists."
-- Neil Gaiman
Suzi
[Snip]
> Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt"
> (CANTIQUE DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating and
> full of fiery brimstone, IYSWIM.
I have a couple of favourites... they normally seem to be loud and Latin
though (things such as "Gaudete")
Suzi
Orjan Westin
news:9uqb20$a0s6v$1...@ID-108239.news.dfncis.de...
> "Orjan Westin" <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote
>
> > Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt"
> > (CANTIQUE DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating
> > and full of fiery brimstone, IYSWIM.
>
> Big AOL. And I do mean Oh Helga Natt. It just isn't the same in any
> other language than Swedish.
Agreed. Well, I've only heard it in French, and that was just annoying.
> What a pity that I won't be in Green Man, so you cannot hear my Jussi
> Björling-imitation.
A pity indeed. Are you any good? Caruso's widow said about Jussi that he
was the best tenor there had ever been.
> Another favourite is Gläns Över Sjö Och Strand.
Aw, you're making me all mushy now. I've got to find that old LP with
Christmas songs now, and get the turntable set up. OTOH, I cane back from
lunch to find some kind individual had left a pile of pepparkakor by my
computer. Sometimes people really are nice.
Orjan
Kimmi
Adeste Fideles? Now, that one I really *loved* at school...
Kimmi
afpfiancee to Huw
Reply-to is valid...
Ingvar Mattsson
> Just picking a place to jump in, feet first
>
> *ahem*
>
> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
>
> Stilla natt, heliga natt
> Allt är frid, stjärnan blid
> Lyser på barnet i stallets strå
> Och de fromma vakande två
> Kristus till jorden är kommen,
> Oss är en frälsare född
>
> Maybe a multilingual performance of Silent Night at Green Man? Although I'm
> coming down with a cold, so I'm not likely to be able to sing very well.
Well, I'm no more congested than usual, so if someone has a paper wit
the lyrics handy... I usually only sing rowdy drunk student songs and
some of Fredmans Epistlar (especially "Drick ur ditt glas" which is
*lovely* in all its horror).
> Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt" (CANTIQUE
> DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating and full of fiery
> brimstone, IYSWIM.
"Gläns över sjö och strand" is quite nice, but I fear my vocal range
is *not* in reach of that song. I no longer can do a believable
soprano...
//Ingvar
--
When in doubt, debug-on-entry the function you least suspect have
anything to do with something.
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:07:36 +0100):
> Ailbhe Leamy wrote:
> > Well, I recently found 6 English translations alone, and have the words
> > to German, Swedish and Irish also...
>
> Here's Polish, without some diacritic marks:
>
> Cicha noc, swieta noc
> Pokój niesie ludziom wszem
> A u zlobka Matka swieta
> Czuwa sama usmiechnieta
> Nad Dzieciatka snem
> Nad Dzieciatka snem
>
> Cicha noc, swieta noc
> Pastuszkowie od swych trzód
> Biegna wielce zadziwieni
> Za anielskich glosem pieni
> Gdzie sie spelnil cud
> Gdzie sie spelnil cud
>
> Cicha noc, swieta noc
> Narodzony Bozy Syn
> Pan wielkiego majestatu
> Niesie dzis calemu swiatu
> Odkupienie win
> Odkupienie win
>
> It's one of the pretties carols, although Polish does boast some
> easier to sing ones, mostly based on folk melodies.
But I can't pronounce Polish, she said plaintively...
A.
http://silentnight.web.za/ has it in 106 languages.
Ailbhe Leamy
(on Fri, 07 Dec 2001 16:13:38 GMT):
> Adeste Fideles? Now, that one I really *loved* at school...
Apparenlty some people sing it in English. I know this because I bought
a CD and when I was expecting "Adeste Fideles" (which was what the CD
cover said) they sang "O Come All Ye Faithful". Bah, humbug.
A.
"Don Oiche Ud i mBeithil". Mmmm.
Peter Ellis
Show me the Welsh and I'll have a good try, he said phlegmatically.
Peter
Sandriana
wrote:
>"Orjan Westin" <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Just picking a place to jump in, feet first
>>
>> *ahem*
>>
>> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
snip
>
>"Gläns över sjö och strand" is quite nice, but I fear my vocal range
>is *not* in reach of that song. I no longer can do a believable
>soprano...
It could be arranged.
--
Sandriana
+++++ out of tea error ++++++
Suzi
alt.fan.pratchett, Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wibbled...
> ail...@lspace.org wrote:
> >
> >But I can't pronounce Polish, she said plaintively...
>
> Show me the Welsh and I'll have a good try, he said phlegmatically.
That'd be North Welsh then, Yes?
Suzi
(otherwise it would be "liltingly")
Messall
know if there's anything funny)
In article <4244263c.01120...@posting.google.com>,
moust...@gmx.net says...
> Mary Messall <m.k.m...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3C0B6C9A...@durham.ac.uk>...
> <snippetry>
> > And my favorite kind of cookies are snicker-doodles, but chocolate chip
> > are probably the most traditional.
> I have never in my life heard of snicker-doodles, but the name alone
> has riveted my curiosity to this thread until you provide a definition
> and a recipe. <g>
Well, they're sort of like soft, buttery sugar cookies with cinnamon on
the top, and possibly ginger or nutmeg or something in... <gives up>
Look, I don't cook 'em, I just eat 'em.
<googles>
Okay, apparently they involve cream of tartar. Here's one recipe I found
(others seem to be similar--none mentions the most important thing,
which is to eat them while still warm from the oven):
Snickerdoodles Ingredients:
1 cup butter or margarine softened
1 1/2 cups sugar
2 eggs
1 teaspoon baking soda
2 3/4 cups all purpose flour
1/4 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoons Cream of Tarter
1/2 cup sugar with 2 teaspoon cinnamon stirred in.
Directions:
Cream together the butter and sugar. Add the eggs one at a time, mixing
well after each. Mix all dry ingredients together and add them to the
egg mixture 1/3 at a time, mixing well after each addition. Cookie dough
will be soft and sticky. Refrigerate the dough for at least 1 hour.
Shape the dough into small balls (the size of a large marble) and roll
them in cinnamon sugar. Place them on a parchment paper lined cookie
sheet about 2 inches apart and flatten them slightly. Cookies will
spread out as they bake. Bake at 400 for 10 to 12 minutes or until
lightly browned around the edges, but still soft. Remove from cookie
sheet immediately as the cookies will stick if allowed to cool on cookie
sheet. Recipe makes about 6 dozen cookies. These cookies freeze well!
> Anyways, chocolate chip cookies aren't traditional; you want
> shortbread and fudge and a Buche de Noel (darn keyboard) and tourtiere
> (darn keyboard) and speculaas Sinterklaaseseses and...
It's true, I do want all of those things...
-Mary
Peter Ellis
>In article <MPG.167b15949...@news.cable.ntlworld.com> in
>alt.fan.pratchett, Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wibbled...
>
>> ail...@lspace.org wrote:
>> >
>> >But I can't pronounce Polish, she said plaintively...
>>
>> Show me the Welsh and I'll have a good try, he said phlegmatically.
>
>That'd be North Welsh then, Yes?
Probably. Having no desire to incur incoming ballistic sheep from
either side of the divide, I couldn't possibly comment.
>
>(otherwise it would be "liltingly")
Oooh no, that's:
"This fizzy drink makes my tongue feel funny, he said Lilt-tingly"
Peter
Quantum Moth
> (first post with gravity, BTW. Downloaded on parents' machine--let me
> know if there's anything funny)
>
On your way.
--
\\\\\ .o0(thom willis - Corinne's Worse Half)
\\\\\\\__o(http://sanctuary.orcon.net.nz | http://www.maskerade.org.uk)
_\\\\\\\'/_(good news! only the good die young!)
Suzi
> su...@lspace.org wrote:
[Snip]
> >That'd be North Welsh then, Yes?
>
> Probably. Having no desire to incur incoming ballistic sheep from
> either side of the divide, I couldn't possibly comment.
[Snip]
Is it very wobbly that rickety high fence you've found yourself sat on?
;-)
Suzi
Guitar Huw
"Peter Ellis" <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote
Is this what you're looking for?, he asked searchingly...
Tawel nos dros y byd,
Sanctaidd nos gylch y crud;
Gwylion dirion yr oedd addfwyn ddau,
Faban Duw gyda'r llygaid bach cau,
Iesu,T'wysog
Sanctaidd nos gyda'i ser;
Mantell fwyn,cariad per
Mintai'r bugail yn dod i fwynhau
Baban Duw gyda'r llygaid bach cau.-
Iesu T'wysog ein hedd
Tawel nos, Duw ei Hun
Ar y llawr gyda dyn;
Cerddi'r engyl, a'r Ne'n trugarhau;
Baban Duw gyda'r llygaid bach cau,-
Iesu,T'wysog ein hedd.
Mary Messall
> Messall <mmes...@ups.edu> said...
>>(first post with gravity, BTW. Downloaded on parents' machine--let me
>>know if there's anything funny)
> Nothing funny here, Messall.
> On your way.
I'm going to confuse people--and myself as well--horribly with all this
server switching and account configuring. I've got Gravity on the
machine upstairs and Mozilla on the machine downstairs, and my own
machine (laptop, brought home with me) isn't yet on the network. Which
incidentally makes it somewhat difficult to do the website update I
promised this weekend; lacking a network connection, the only way to get
my digital pictures off the laptop is a floppy disk.
Just so's you'all know.
This should oughta come up with both bits of my name, and none of my
dad's initials...
-Mary
apostate
>
<snip>
> Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
>
I thought "the" was always definitive
--
The Apostate
Willfully misconstruing in the hope of a cheap laugh
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukdeletethis
On Sat, 8 Dec 2001 21:15:14 -0000, "apostate"
<apos...@madasafish.net> wrote:
>> Any Germans care to give the definitive on this ?
>>
>
>I thought "the" was always definitive
Nope, it's definite, not definitive.
Cheers,
Graham.
Richard Eney
Sandriana <sand...@eurobell.co.uk> wrote:
>This is a good basic sugar cookie recipe which I've had for ages and
>works really well. it's also simple enough for children to do. It can be
>elaborated into ginger cookies by adding 1 tsp ginger and substituting
>brown sugar, and into spice cookies by adding 1/4 tsp each of cinnamon,
>ginger, and nutmeg and a pinch of cloves, and to lemon cookies by adding
>about 1/2 lemons worth of zest and juice.
That's weird. I thought I'd invented this one back in the 1970s -
I called it Basic Sugar Cookies with Optional Everything. :-)
>Christmas Cookies
>
>1 3/4 cups plain flour
>1/2 cup sugar 1/4 tsp salt
>1 med egg 1/4 tsp Bicarb of soda
>1/2 tsp vanilla
>
>Cream the butter and sugar till light and fluffy:
Butter? What butter?
Mine uses 1/2 cup butter to about the same ingredients, though mine seems
to use a tad less flour and a tiny bit more salt and soda.
<snip>
>bake 8-10 mins at 350f
8 mins at 375f for mine, which come out rather delicate.
Here's one my family likes. It's eggless, in case people have objections
to eggs. Note: this makes a lot, so you may want to cut down the amounts.
Pennsylvania Dutch Ginger Cookies
1 cup butter
1 cup confectioner's sugar (fine powdered sugar, though regular is ok)
1 Tablespoon vinegar
2 1/4 cups flour
3/4 teaspoon baking soda
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon powdered cinnamon,
1/2 teaspoon powdered ginger
1/4 teaspoon powdered cloves
(or 2 teaspons ginger alone, or 1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon alone)
Cream butter and sugar, add the rest. Roll 1/4 inch thick on floured
board, cut out shapes, lift with spatula to put onto baking sheet. Bake
400f for 4 minutes, until edges brown slightly. Let cool on pan. Bake
one pan-full at a time, high in the oven but not quite at top.
Reroll the rest of the dough and repeat.
Or just roll into small balls, put onto pan, dip bottom of a glass into
flour and use to flatten the balls to about 1/4 inch thick.
These hold their shape, so they can be decorated by incising lines into
the top of plain-shaped cookies. So you could just roll them out, cut
them into squares or diamonds, and mark little designs on them with the
point of a chopstick. This could be quite fun for someone of an artistic
or calligraphic bent.
=Tamar
Ingvar Mattsson
Er, "no.". ;)
I muchly prefer my bits as-is, even if I am considering having the
domestification done at some point.
//Ingvar (peter had it and he says it's mostly painless)
--
Q: What do you call a Discworld admin?
A: Chelonius Monk
Axel Kielhorn
> On 4 Dec 2001, Yannick Larvor wrote:
>
> >momo wrote:
> >
> >> Silent Night is an American Christmas song.... I seriously upset
> >> people's world view if I say it's German.
> >
> >"Stiiiiille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
> >Alles Schläft, <mumblemumble>
>
> .. einsam wacht.
>
> >Nun, das Wetter <mumblemumble>..."
>
> Nur das traute hoch-heilige Paar,
> Holde Knabe im lockigen Haar.
Holder Knabe im lockigen Haar.
^ The Knabe is male.
> Schlaf in himmlische Ruh!
himmlischer Ruh!
^ The Ruh is female[1]
> Schlaf in himmlische Ruh.
>
>
> Any Germans care to tell me how close that version is?
No-one will notice the difference when you sing your version because
everyone will be struggeling to remember the right words:-)
> Actually, I think I prefer the German version to the English - German is a
> lovely language to sing in.
It's a nice language to sing out of tune in.[2]
[1] I'm not kidding, in German silence is female.
[2] Sorry, I will not sing. Torture is against the Geneve convention.
Axel
Meg Thornton
>"Orjan Westin" <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> wrote
>> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
>>
>> Stilla natt, heliga natt
>> Allt är frid, stjärnan blid
>> Lyser på barnet i stallets strå
>> Och de fromma vakande två
>> Kristus till jorden är kommen,
>> Oss är en frälsare född
>
>Jouluyö, juhlayö,
>päättynyt kaikk' on työ
>Kaks vain valveill' on puolisoa
>Lapsen herttaisen nukkuessa
>Seimikätkyessään,
>seimikätkyessään.
>
>> Personally, though, my favourite Christmas song is "Oh Helga Natt"
>> (CANTIQUE DE NOEL) - it's both quietly, wondrously contemplating
>> and full of fiery brimstone, IYSWIM.
>
>Big AOL. And I do mean Oh Helga Natt. It just isn't the same in any
>other language than Swedish.
Ummm... is that the one which gets translated into English as "O Holy
Night"?
>Oh helga natt, oh helga stund för världen
>då gudamänskan till jorden kom ned
>För att försona världens brott och synder
>för oss han dödens smärta led
>Och hoppets stråle går igenom världen
>och ljuset skimrar över land och hav
>Folk, fall nu neder
>och hälsa glatt din frihet
>Oh helga natt, du frälsning åt oss gav
>Oh helga natt, du frälsning å-å-å-å-åt oss gav
If it isn't, then they both appear to scan to the same tune....
The one that goes "dum, dum, de dum, da dum da dum da deeeeee da"
(there are reasons why Usenet can't be used for everything)
Meg
--
\\\ Meg Thornton (mag...@megabitch.org.uk)
\\\\_o Attempting midget hedgehogs since 18 Feb 2001
\\\\`/ Harrison's Postulate: For every action, there is an
equal and opposing criticism.
Meg Thornton
My favourites:
Adeste Fideles
In Dulci Jubilo
Masters In this Hall
Personet Hodie
My Dancing Day
Gabriel's Message
The Carol of the Birds
and of course, "A Christmas Carol" by Tom Lehrer.
François-Xavier de Montgolfier
<ing...@cathouse.bofh.se> wrote:
>sand...@eurobell.co.uk (Sandriana) writes:
>
>> On 07 Dec 2001 17:13:58 +0000, Ingvar Mattsson <ing...@cathouse.bofh.se>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Orjan Westin" <NospamRepla...@cunobaros.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> >
>> >> Just picking a place to jump in, feet first
>> >>
>> >> *ahem*
>> >>
>> >> Stilla Natt (Silent Night)
>> snip
>> >
>> >"Gläns över sjö och strand" is quite nice, but I fear my vocal range
>> >is *not* in reach of that song. I no longer can do a believable
>> >soprano...
>>
>> It could be arranged.
>
>Er, "no.". ;)
>
>I muchly prefer my bits as-is, even if I am considering having the
>domestification done at some point.
<pedant>
Actually, once the hormonal rush has started, and the voice has
changed, going back to soprano is no longer biologically possible...
in the good old times, when they wanted to keep the voice of a pretty
boy pure, they would cut the testicles when he was 7 or 8. The odds
where 1 out of 3 that this would work, 1 out of 3 that he would die as
the result of the operation (they didn't believe in hygiene, at that
time), and 1 out of 3 that he would still change voice. These odds are
grossly estimated, but not very far from the mark.
</pedant>
FiX <nitpicking>
--
Just because I'm paranoid dosen't mean they're not out to get me...
pia
> <pedant>
> Actually, once the hormonal rush has started, and the voice has
> changed, going back to soprano is no longer biologically possible...
So how do we explain counter-tenors, the highest of which do sing
soprano range?
Mr. Mole?
pia
pia
[ Oh Helga Natt ]
> Ummm... is that the one which gets translated into English as "O
> Holy Night"?
Dat's it. Composed by Adolphe Adam, with the original, French lyrics
starting "Minuit, cretien"
And more lovely Christmas carols: The March of the Three Kings.
Probably not it's official English name, it's a French song by the
famous and productive Anonym. First words are "De bon matin, J'ai
recontre le train". Another song I almost can sing.
pia
Suzi
news:30jb1u85n4fkcfs31...@4ax.com...
[Snip]
> Personet Hodie
[Snip]
Ah! The other loud latin one that I rather like :-)
Suzi
(I also quite like the full "carols for choirs" version of "We Wish you
a Merry Christmas"... well, all apart from the one high note at the end
<g>)
Peter Ellis
It's a falsetto sound, produced by vibrating just the edges of the vocal
cords as opposed to the complete mass of them - I believe this is
achieved by not contracting the vocalis muscle, though this is based on
intellectual consideration of the anatomy rather than direct
electrophysiological experiment. Everyone has the potential to learn to
sing falsetto (or indeed speak falsetto, cf Mickey Mouse) - whether they
be intrinsically male or female; basses, tenors, contraltos or sopranos.
The falsetto "register" produces a different type of tone which some
might call purer - it may be that it approximates more closely to a bare
sine wave. It's not as forgiving a register to sing in, and is more
unwieldy, harder to master and less amenable to a large dynamic range or
set of textural colours. Only the best falsettists can avoid sounding
bland, "white" or hooty.
In general, anyone's personal falsetto register will lie between a fifth
and an octave above their standard or "root" register. A singer who is
intrinsically bass or baritone will have a falsetto range lying in the
modern "alto" register - this is the most common type. A singer like
myself who is intrinsically high tenor will have an astonishingly high
falsetto - before I got out of practice I could sing notes higher than
most sopranos. Wisely, I decided to stick to tenor :-) Occasionally,
someone with a *very* deep bass voice will have a falsetto range lying
in what's more normally called the tenor range. This sounds very odd,
but to my ears very pleasing. I think it's most common in Gospel
singing styles, and there's an outside chance that "Old Deuteronomy" in
the film version of "Cats" has such a voice. I've only heard snippets,
but that's what it sounded like to me.
In females, the vocal cords are thinner and more agile to start with, so
there is less of a difference or "gear-change" between the registers,
and the falsetto and root ranges overlap over most or all of their
length. It's probably the case that all professional female singers (at
least in the classical tradition) sing with some blending of root and
falsetto registers, shading into pure falsetto at the top and sinking
into root register for the really booty low notes.
There is also another school of counter-tenor who are not falsettists --
they are simply extremely high tenors, and sing in their root register.
They're generally known as "haut-contre", and it's quite strong in the
French choral tradition, I understand. Since they're singing in the
root register, they tend to sing with a lower absolute range than
falsettists, even though said falsettist may be intrinsically a baritone
or bass.
Some baroque composers drew distinctions between "high alto" and "low
alto". Bearing in mind they were writing for male-only choirs, this
almost certainly refers to falsettists and haut-contres respectively.
Some mixed choirs I've been in do a similar-ish thing, using female
singers for first alto parts and adding in falsettist counter-tenors for
second alto parts, adding depth of colour and tone and a different
range of textures for the conductor/choirmaster to work with.
Over history, the accepted range for tenor seems to have shifted up, so
what's now a "tenor" part in a more recent choral work lies nearer what
used to be a "low alto" (haut-contre) range.
Personally and according to modern terminology, in range I'm a highish
tenor, but the timbre and speaking voice are light enough to be an haut-
contre, which probably means that my range is more likely to extend
further up rather than down with more training.
Peter
pia
What a thorough explanation! You clarified many things I've wondered
about long time, but never coherently enough to crystallise into
actual questions. I thank thee.
But one more thing: how do 'chest voice' and 'head voice' map
into the root register / falsetto division?
> Occasionally, someone with a *very* deep bass voice will have
> a falsetto range lying in what's more normally called the tenor
> range. This sounds very odd, but to my ears very pleasing. I think
> it's most common in Gospel singing styles, and there's
> an outside chance that "Old Deuteronomy" in the film version
> of "Cats" has such a voice. I've only heard snippets, but
> that's what it sounded like to me.
I've seen it long ago, and remember that his voice did seem quite
extraordinary. The name of the singer seems to be Ken Page. When
I'll be alone in the office, I'll check how the snippets available in
Amazon sound like.
pia
David Underdown
news:9v58jg$d15tv$1...@ID-108239.news.dfncis.de...
> "Peter Ellis" <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote
>
> But one more thing: how do 'chest voice' and 'head voice' map
> into the root register / falsetto division?
>
Head and chest voice are more to do with with where you try to make your
voice resonate than the root/falsetto divide. If you try and project
your voice up, it will tend to resonate in your sinuses (and other
spaces in your head - hence choral jokes about tenors having resonance
where their brains should be, and the general dimness of sopranos :-)).
Obviously this tend work better in higher registers, since the
resonating chamber is generally smaller than that available by focussing
the sound on your chest, which generally works better for lower notes.
However, head-voice probably tends to merge into falsetto. As Peter
says he has a fairly high tenor range, I sit more towards baritone.
Particularly if my voice is tired, I sometimes have to shift into
falsetto to reach notes I would otherwise use head voice for. Whther or
not there is also a distinction in the modes or vibration of the larynx
that are used I don't know, although I at least have distinclty
different ranges, with different sound qualities. My voice will
sometimes still crack slightly as I move through these areas,
particularly (again) if I'm tired.
--
David Underdown
DinkiPixie
<piage...@yahoo.com> writes
>First words are "De bon matin, J'ai
>recontre le train".
It's a lucky morning if I can catch a train?
--
Angela Touchstone
http://www.dinkipixie.btinternet.co.uk/dinkipixie.htm
Suzi
David Underdown <da...@davidunderdown.freeserve.co.uk> wibbled...
[Snip]
> Head and chest voice are more to do with with where you try to make your
> voice resonate than the root/falsetto divide. If you try and project
> your voice up, it will tend to resonate in your sinuses (and other
> spaces in your head - hence choral jokes about tenors having resonance
> where their brains should be, and the general dimness of sopranos :-)).
[Snip]
Watch it you! You should hear some of the tenor and soprano jokes about
the altos and basses anyway (about their growling away at the bottom
'cos they can't hold a tune) :-)
Suzi
phil...@see.signature.uk
<da...@davidunderdown.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>"pia" <piage...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:9v58jg$d15tv$1...@ID-108239.news.dfncis.de...
>> "Peter Ellis" <pj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote
>>
>> But one more thing: how do 'chest voice' and 'head voice' map
>> into the root register / falsetto division?
>>
>
>Head and chest voice are more to do with with where you try to make your
>voice resonate than the root/falsetto divide. If you try and project
>your voice up, it will tend to resonate in your sinuses (and other
>spaces in your head - hence choral jokes about tenors having resonance
>where their brains should be, and the general dimness of sopranos :-)).
Having had singing lessons in the bel canto style and being semi-pro
Mezzo-soprano, I will try to elucidate further.
For me (and many mezzos/true sopranos) there is a 'shift' around D above
middle C, where the 'normal' voice goes into the 'true' head voice.
This transition needs to be undertaken with great care, both when
ascending and descending so that the audience gets a smooth auditory
experience <EG>. Somewhere around middle C or a bit lower there is a
similar change of gear into the chest voice (for those who can get that
low). Everything starts with the diaphragm, includes breath control and
focus for each note. Usually the focus is around/in the sinuses - what
Swarzkopf called the elephant's trunk <G>, although good singers will
use different parts of their resonating possibilities to 'colour' notes
for emotional/technical effect.
Does this help?
Philippa
Peter Ellis
>>>
>>> But one more thing: how do 'chest voice' and 'head voice' map
>>> into the root register / falsetto division?
>>>
>>
>>Head and chest voice are more to do with with where you try to make your
>>voice resonate than the root/falsetto divide.
>
>Mezzo-soprano, I will try to elucidate further.
>
>For me (and many mezzos/true sopranos) there is a 'shift' around D above
>middle C, where the 'normal' voice goes into the 'true' head voice.
>
I think this exemplifies my point: that for females the falsetto and
root registers are much more similar than in males. As such, I'm pretty
sure that what you refer to as head and chest voice are what I would
call the falsetto and root registers. As you say, the transition needs
to be undergone with great care since although the gear-change is much
less pronounced than in males, it's a very definite obstacle to
producing a smooth variation of tonal colour across the vocal range.
What you refer to as your "normal" voice above is most likely to be
something of a blend of the falsetto and root registers.
Men have a far more noticeable crack between the two registers.
Apropos of nothing much, yodelling is a rapid alternation between the
two registers. Significantly, I don't believe I know of any yodelling
women. This could just be their good taste, though.
A falsetto sound for me certainly triggers much more resonance in the
sinus cavities as opposed to chest resonance, thus the falsetto/root
divide can be referred to as a head/chest divide.
However, even within the root register, higher or lower notes resonate
more or less in different areas of the body, and it's common at least
for male singers to refer to this also as a head/chest divide, even
though both lie in the root register -- what you would call a 'chest
voice'
Personally, the centre of my root vocal range is pretty much dead on
middle C. Slightly less than an octave below that, it just fades out
into nothingness, while it goes up to A with no real problems. There's
definite variance (head/chest divide by definition [2]) across this
range - if I try to carry the more robust colours from the lower end up
into the higher end, I do nasty things to my throat end up emitting
strangled croaking sounds; while if I try to take the lower notes more
lightly, they end up breathy and unfocussed and don't carry well.
There's *also* a major shift to the falsetto register (head/chest divide
according to definition [1]), which when I still had it functioning
properly ran from about the D or E above middle C to the C two octaves
above middle C, or rarely even more. Breathy at the bottom and alarming
at the top, but reasonably passable in between.
As a treble, the root register ran from around middle C to the E an
octave and a bit above, while the falsetto ran from about the G to the
C. When my voice broke, basically the root register dropped away and
left the falsetto behind.
I think the two registers are far enough apart now that it'll be hard or
impossible to blend much between them, as you do in your 'normal' voice,
though looking at the range of the falsetto and the pitch of my speaking
voice, it suggests that there's probably at least an extra third I could
add to the top of my root register, as soon as I can find where the
bloody thing's lurking.
Complicated, innit? *grin*
Peter
Eric Jarvis
pj...@cam.ac.uk says...
> if I try to carry the more robust colours from the lower end up
> into the higher end, I do nasty things to my throat end up emitting
> strangled croaking sounds;
>
ooh lookee...Peter's been doing impersonations of my voice :)
--
eric
"if at first you don't succeed,
then try again with it switched on"
MegaMole
<su...@lspace.org> writes
>Watch it you! You should hear some of the tenor and soprano jokes about
>the altos and basses anyway (about their growling away at the bottom
>'cos they can't hold a tune) :-)
I tend to growl away at the bottom because I ate the wrong kind of
beans.
BTW, I am thinking about an AFPMad project for the Con. The concom know
about it, and I just have to write it up. I'm hoping Terry will grant
some sort of official sanction to my suggestion, too. I'm not going to
tell you what it is - I'm keeping it under, so to speak, my hat.
Anyone interested (previous suspects welcome, but also new ones -
especially basses) - please mail me with "AFPMad" in the subject line
or else a [tag]. (Both will go to the same mailbox).
I'll just get my bargain counter-tenor (pace CPE Bach),
--
MegaMole, the Official Enrico Basilica
\\\\\ laaa! mo...@lspace.org mo...@music.slut.org.uk
\\\\\\\_o / www.countertenor.demon.co.uk for Stuff
__ \\\\\'c/__ Hitting the high notes with hedgehogs since 2001
MegaMole
Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk> writes
>I think this exemplifies my point: that for females the falsetto and
>root registers are much more similar than in males.
Though look at, for example, Mariah Carey's "whistle" register. This is
almost certainly a female falsetto. Which is NOT the same as soprano
head tone.
>Men have a far more noticeable crack between the two registers.
>Apropos of nothing much, yodelling is a rapid alternation between the
>two registers. Significantly, I don't believe I know of any yodelling
>women. This could just be their good taste, though.
Yma Sumac, and that rather odd Australian sheila whose name I forget at
the moment.
>
>A falsetto sound for me certainly triggers much more resonance in the
>sinus cavities as opposed to chest resonance, thus the falsetto/root
>divide can be referred to as a head/chest divide.
Bingo! :)
>Complicated, innit? *grin*
Once again my grate frend peason hit the nail on the head. Musik is
komplikated, as any fule kno.
This one go plunk.
--
MM
MegaMole
>>> But one more thing: how do 'chest voice' and 'head voice' map
>>> into the root register / falsetto division?
Some counter-tenors (I am one, who sings with a highly respected church
choir, among other places) claim they do all their singing in head
voice. I'm not sure.
[David U]
>>Head and chest voice are more to do with with where you try to make your
>>voice resonate than the root/falsetto divide.
I'd agree with this. Certainly Charles Brett, who gave me my basic
training, was very keen that I develop sinus resonance. A bit difficuld
wid a blokd dose.
[David U]
>If you try and project
>>your voice up, it will tend to resonate in your sinuses
>
>For me (and many mezzos/true sopranos) there is a 'shift' around D above
>middle C, where the 'normal' voice goes into the 'true' head voice.
>This transition needs to be undertaken with great care, both when
>ascending and descending so that the audience gets a smooth auditory
>experience <EG>.
This is why I hate some mezzos (such as Catherine Denley) who DON'T have
this smooth transition, and like others (such as Anne Sofie von Otter)
who do.
A lot of counter-tenors have a clear divide between root (=~ "chest")
voice, usually baritone or bass, and falsetto (=~ "head") tone. Even
the most famous of our tribe, the Andreas Scholls and James Bowmans,
have a highly delineated difference of sound.
As for me, I certainly have an "alto" voice and a "bass" voice. But
there's an octave (from F below middle C upwards) that I can actually
sing in *either* voice, with *either* method of production. People who
have heard me sing a middle C in either voice can often not tell which
is falsetto. And the lower notes of my falsetto, say from D below
middle C down to that F, are reinforced with quite a lot of chest
resonance without actually being chest. They're still falsetto, but
where the sound comes from is chest/mouth rather than sinuses/top of
head as it would do with higher notes (say, B above middle C up to my
absolute top of F#), and the sound has a certain admixture of baritone
in it.
Have I confused you yet?
See also http://www.countertenor.demon.co.uk/ctindex.html .
gra...@affordable-leather.co.ukdeletethis
On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 01:07:01 -0000, Peter Ellis <pj...@cam.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Significantly, I don't believe I know of any yodelling women. This could just be
> their good taste, though.
IIRC I once (regrettably) saw a TV programme featuring a female
country and western singer who yodelled her songs!
>This could just be their good taste, though.
Given the combination of C&W and yodelling, you may be right!
Cheers,
Graham.
David Underdown
"Suzi" <su...@lspace.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.16809a378...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk...
> Watch it you! You should hear some of the tenor and soprano jokes
about
> the altos and basses anyway (about their growling away at the bottom
> 'cos they can't hold a tune) :-)
>
> Suzi
I think that you have sung in groups where I was singing as a tenor, OK
I missed the smiley out :-).
--
David Underdown