What is a Zord? And Does It Matter Anymore? 2000 Edition
Rob Rosenberg
ago in an annoyingly long chain. Well, After LG and the beginning of LR, I
want to this time your definitions of a Zord, and if you think the name Zord
applies anymore. IMO, as a purist, I have to say that it still carries some
importance to the way we refer to the mecha. And my definition? Let me
break out my Webster's, Rob's Brain Edition....
Zord- 1. A colossal, well armed robot shaped as either an animal or vehicle
with capabilities in one or multiple environments and often has the ability
to merge with similarly named vehicles into a larger humanoid robot for the
purposes of combat and protection.
--
Slappyfrog,
aka Rob Rosenberg
EX812
Lost Galaxy we could speculate that it was Zordon that placed the Sabers in the
stone so we could refer to the Galactibeasts as Zords. In Lightspeed however
the Powers were created by humans and therefore i see no merit in calling the
Mecha Zords or the use of the Term Megazord i mean comeone none of these guys
knew the Rangers so where did they come up with MegaZord????
Kenneth Hillis
Why do people keep thinking that the new Rangers don't know
about the past ones? Yeah, they didn't say anything about them,
but they didn't ask anything like "What's a Power Ranger?".
Their non-response (aside from Joel) to the Captain's comment
about them becoming Rangers means nothing. Joel just thought
Mitchell was nuts, and that's understandable. I mean, if you
were told that you were going to be a Ranger by some stranger
who kidnapped you, wouldn't you?
There's an explanation to why the others didn't have much of a
reaction to being told this, as well: It's called shock.
So please, stop saying that. Just because they didn't say
anything about them doesn't mean they don't know about them.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Gray Ranger
Kenneth Hillis wrote in message
<24881313...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>...
>>
>Why do people keep thinking that the new Rangers don't know
>about the past ones? Yeah, they didn't say anything about them,
>but they didn't ask anything like "What's a Power Ranger?".
>Their non-response (aside from Joel) to the Captain's comment
>about them becoming Rangers means nothing. Joel just thought
>Mitchell was nuts, and that's understandable. I mean, if you
>were told that you were going to be a Ranger by some stranger
>who kidnapped you, wouldn't you?
>
>There's an explanation to why the others didn't have much of a
>reaction to being told this, as well: It's called shock.
>
>So please, stop saying that. Just because they didn't say
>anything about them doesn't mean they don't know about them.
>
I think he didn't beleive Mitchell because of local. IMO, he could have
easily made a tie-in to the past by saying "This sort of thing only happens
in Angel Grove" or "Wrong city" or something to that effect.
But I also think "Zord" still applies. IMO, it's become the American word
for 'giant japanese robots', which IIRC have several differant names in
sentai alone. (mecha, robo, bot, mega, etc.)
--
Gray Ranger
"Sodawater Rhubarb" - Dr. Evil's Moon-Base Henchman
Jeff T. Anonymous
modes of the GalactaBeasts. The "astro megazord" and "delta megazord"
were, in my opinion, Warrior/Battle/Robot Modes of the Megaships. Sure,
Astro had the shuttle, but that doesn't really count as it is basically
the Escape Pod from the Megaship. It is unclear as to whether ToroZord
was ever a Galactabeast, so it is rather impossible to classify. I once
made a Zord Sentience Scale(search for Zord Sentience on Deja to find
the thread) and that classified Toro as Sentient. Stratoforce and
Centaurus may or may not be considered Megazords. LinerBoy is more of a
droid or sentient warrior mode, actually. Robo Racer was a "battle
mode" when in humanoid form. Artillatron is a carrier. Titanus and
Pyramidus are somewhat gray, but are pretty much zords. Tor was a
turtle who Zordon grew and roboticized, and is thus a robot mode of said
turtle, and not a zord. Mega Winger was a shuttle with a robot mode
and the ability to share its wings with the Mega Voyager. Pretty much
anything else is a Zord.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
LightstarBlue
> these new powers.
The only connection to PRiS I could *possibly* see is Zhane donating his
powers to create ol' Titanium Ranger's. As I pointed out in another post,
Titanium Ranger has a white M on his helmet above the V-visor. Zhane knew
about the Mega Voyager, so maybe he incorporated the lettering into
Titanium's powers. Besides, it'd explain where Zhane was in the PRiS/PRLG
crossover.
I mean if the people of earth could build
> terra venture then I don't see why they wouldn't be able to
> create new ranger powers and zords as well.
Good point... plus, there were probably enough old Zord parts lying around
Angel Grove that creating new from old would be easy. :)
No explanation was
> ever given for the origin of Andros and Zane's powers. For all
> we know the people of KO-35 created them, after all they did
> build the MegaWinger.
Yeah, they did, didn't they? Maybe the Kerovans created the Space powers
with help from Zordon. After all, Andros and Zordon seemed to know a lot
about each other.
~ LightstarBlue
miko
>Wow, I have been corrected by the great miko. I am honored. ;)
>
Very funny, Jonathan. ^_^
Jonathan S. Latu
miko <miko_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:88kf6l$2u...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <88kbqd$9f4$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, "Jonathan says...
> >Wow, I have been corrected by the great miko. I am honored. ;)
> >
>
> Very funny, Jonathan. ^_^
You smiled didn't you miko-sensei? ;-P
Johnny 5
>
>You smiled didn't you miko-sensei? ;-P
Oh like that means anything. Miko smiles more than the earth goes around the
sun.
<a href="http://members.xoom.com/Lowradia/index.html">Its coming...</a>
NeUtRiNo
"Phasm Ranger" <mat...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:38ae...@flexnet239.uunt.net...
> EX812 <ex...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20000217134351...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
> >
> > I dont think it has any place in continuity in Lightspeed Rescue.
> > Atleast in Lost Galaxy we could speculate that it was Zordon
> > that placed the Sabers in the stone so we could refer to the
>
>
> We can't speculate that at all. Zordon was trapped in his little time
warp
> approximately 10,000 years ago. The Q Sabers were placed
> in the stone 3,000 years ago. There's no way the big Z could've put them
> there. I think the safest assumption is that they were put
> there by a previous set of Galaxy Rangers. It works for me, anyway.
>
I think your right on that one.
> > In Lightspeed however the Powers were created by humans and
> > therefore i see no merit in calling the Mecha Zords or the use of
> > the Term Megazord i mean comeone none of these guys knew
> > the Rangers so where did they come up with MegaZord????
>
>
> Remember all those times when the Rangers would stand in the middle of the
> street or park and shout "We need So-And-So Megazord power NOW!"? You say
> something like that
> often enough and word gets around. ^_~
>
For all we know, the commander of the Lightspeed Aqua Base could be the
Phantom Ranger or an Eltarian comrade of Zordon's. I've noticed throughout
the series, there are a LOT of things that Zordon has planned for in
advance. The Astro-Megazord sequence was devised by him and it had to have
somehow been laid out before NASADA created the shuttle. The Aquitian
rangers had some sort of link to the morphing grid, even though they were
not led by Zordon, plus they could control the Shogun Megazord without the
power coins.
I'm rambling now, but I think Zordon, Dimitria, and the Phantom Ranger will
somehow play a part in the creation of the LS rangers; and the commander
used the name Zord to honor his possibly one time mentor. Could the
commander maybe be Tommy or Jason grown up???
Only Time will tell.
Neutrino-The White Owl Ranger
> Phasm Ranger
>
>
Joe Rovang
>We can't speculate that at all. Zordon was trapped in his little time warp
>approximately 10,000 years ago. The Q Sabers were placed
>in the stone 3,000 years ago. There's no way the big Z could've put them
>there. I think the safest assumption is that they were put
>there by a previous set of Galaxy Rangers. It works for me, anyway.
Well, during Maya's story of the sabers' placement, they were shown
appearing from a blue beam of light from the sky. So a higher force
(such as Zordon) makes more sense than former Rangers - why would
former Rangers beam the sabers down?
- Joe Rovang
Writer's Guide to the PR Universe:
http://rovang.simplenet.com/wg/wgindex.htm
NeUtRiNo
"Joe Rovang" <jrovang@mindspringDOTcom> wrote in message
news:38ae892a...@news.mindspring.com...
> "Phasm Ranger" <mat...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> >We can't speculate that at all. Zordon was trapped in his little time
warp
> >approximately 10,000 years ago. The Q Sabers were placed
> >in the stone 3,000 years ago. There's no way the big Z could've put them
> >there. I think the safest assumption is that they were put
> >there by a previous set of Galaxy Rangers. It works for me, anyway.
>
> Well, during Maya's story of the sabers' placement, they were shown
> appearing from a blue beam of light from the sky. So a higher force
> (such as Zordon) makes more sense than former Rangers - why would
> former Rangers beam the sabers down?
Some Rangers (Gold Zeo) moved like streaks of light at times. I guess it's
something to be answered in a FanFic :)
Jeff T. Anonymous
>commander maybe be Tommy or Jason grown up???
Tommy or Jason? I think he's Billy!
George Rodd
PhasmRanger: What is it?
ULTRASUPREMERANGER: This, blasts PhasmRanger with Q Enhanced Quasar
Laumcher, sends Phasm to hell!
Ecliptor17
Since when the hell did this happen? Did someone over-feed him?
>Oh Phasm I have a surprise for you?
>
Watch out, Phasm... it's probably a...
>PhasmRanger: What is it?
Too late...
>This,
This should be either in quotation marks, Rodd, or have a period or exclamation
mark at the end.
>blasts PhasmRanger with Q Enhanced Quasar
>Laumcher
Q Enhanced Quasar Laumcher (for the rest o' us... it's Launcher)?
... the hell?
>sends Phasm to hell!
Could be worse. Could be Rodd's toy chest or lunch box.
MEGVOYAGER
news:20000220132128...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
> >ULTRASUPREMERANGER:
>
> Since when the hell did this happen? Did someone over-feed him?
He made some wierd post about upgrading his powers or something. I don't
know about over feeding though, he does seem weirder than usual.....
Ecliptor17
Ha ha ha ha ha... you're not joking, are you?
Then, what exactly does he USE his powers for? Helping others? Saving kittens?
Annoying us?
>I don't
>know about over feeding though, he does seem weirder than usual.....
>
If it happened to Saliguana, it could happen to Rodd. Let this be a lesson to
all you kids out there: read & obey the signs = DO NOT FEED RODD.
Jeff T. Anonymous
Jeff, Andros(& company), and Trey(with all Zeo-era Zords) show up and
morph:
Jeff: Geometranger Engage!
Andros: Let's Rocket!
Trey: Gold Ranger Power!
Jeff: Geometric Megazord!
Andros: AstroDelta Megazord!
Trey: Zeo Ultrazord, Super Zeo Megazord, Warrior Wheel, engage!
Jeff gets into Geometric, Andros and girls board AD, Trey takes ZU, TJ
takes SZ, and Carlos takes WW. Zhane then shows up in Mega Winger,
which converts into warrior mode.
Jeff (who just then puts the bottom of his protractor in its
credit-card reader slot) over Megaphone: The Mega Voyager is unavailable
because the mind known as MEGVOYAGER transformed it into morphing
powers. Speaking of Meg, the upgrades which were put on the Zords
involved in the whole Therapy Session dealie-waddle are still there and
have also been applied to Geometric Megazord and Mega Winger. By the
way, Lost Galaxy never happened and Delta was rebuilt. Shields and
fields, engage!
Jeff T. Anonymous
phantom6 wrote:
> Justin STEWART
>
any canonical proof it ain't MITCHELL as in Commander?
>
> Billy CRANSTON
>
I always say Cranston, but is there any canonical proof?
>
> Tommy OLIVER
>
proven
>
> Jason LEE/SCOTT
>
Jason Scott Lee in my book.
Sincerely,
Jeff T. Anonymous
Cannibals agree, an ice cream sandwich just isn't an ice cream sandwich without
the tangy zip of Napoleon, er, neapolitan.
Jonathan S. Latu
Jeff T. Anonymous <jef...@home.com> wrote in message
news:38B0C122...@home.com...
>
>
> phantom6 wrote:
>
> > Justin STEWART
> >
>
> any canonical proof it ain't MITCHELL as in Commander?
>
> >
> > Billy CRANSTON
> >
>
> I always say Cranston, but is there any canonical proof?
On the television show, no. It was included on a collector card I think...
> > Jason LEE/SCOTT
> >
>
> Jason Scott Lee in my book.
Portrayed both ways. No offense, but Lee as his last name just doesn't work
for me. Sounds too 'Asian.' I just don't see it.
SirSTACK
>Jeff T. Anonymous <jef...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:38B0C122...@home.com...
>>
>>
>> phantom6 wrote:
>>
>> > Justin STEWART
>> >
>>
>> any canonical proof it ain't MITCHELL as in Commander?
Said as "Justin STEWART" on PRT several times, as well as seen written on his
homework assignment. So i'd say you can't get any more canon than that.
>> > Jason LEE/SCOTT
>> >
>>
>> Jason Scott Lee in my book.
>
>Portrayed both ways. No offense, but Lee as his last name just doesn't work
>for me. Sounds too 'Asian.' I just don't see it.
It ISN'T "Jason Scott Lee". That's the name of a real life actor, most notably
star of "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story". On the show it was announced as "Jason
Lee Scott", a reference to said actor, in "Missing Green". The next time it was
mentioned, in "The Power Transfer", he was simply called "Jason Lee". And you'd
be surprised by the number of people with "Lee" as their last name, who aren't
asian at all.
_Jesse Lee Herndon: Sir STACK @ aol.com_
_PR Spoiler Warnings: http://pluto.spaceports.com/~ling
Fan-scheduler of "What's On Fox Kids".
Available by E-mail, or so rumored._
"A Fly Skunky!" -Rattrap's 'Boss Monkey' line, closed captioned.
Dagmar Buse
> >I don't
> >know about over feeding though, he does seem weirder than usual.....
> >
>
> If it happened to Saliguana, it could happen to Rodd. Let this be a lesson to
> all you kids out there: read & obey the signs = DO NOT FEED RODD.
Just think .. what if he were a tribble and, if fed, started multiplying?
Dagmar
Green Lantern Kyle Rayner
<shudder>
Peace,
GLKR
You know you watch too much PR when...
...small whining children remind you of Kat.
I know, I've used that one before, but I'm in a rush, so GIMME A BREAK! =P
Dagmar Buse <rdg...@cityweb.de> wrote in message
news:38B0FDB4...@cityweb.de...
MEGVOYAGER
eclip...@aol.com (Ecliptor17) wrote:
>>He made some wierd post about upgrading his powers or
something.
>
>Ha ha ha ha ha... you're not joking, are you?
I wish I was......
Phasm Ranger
news:25112-38...@storefull-134.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
> ULTRASUPREMERANGER:
Phasm Ranger: Just because they call it "Ultra Slim Fast" doesn't mean it
actually makes you "Ultra," George.
> Oh Phasm I have a surprise for you?
Phasm Ranger: Why're you asking me? How should I know if you have a
surprise for me or not? I mean, if I knew then it wouldn't be much of a
surprise now would it?
> PhasmRanger: What is it?
Phasm Ranger: You're putting words in my mouth! I..... I better go rinse
with hydrochloric acid! Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww............
Blech! Blech! Gag!
> ULTRASUPREMERANGER: This, blasts PhasmRanger with Q
> Enhanced Quasar Laumcher, sends Phasm to hell!
Phasm Ranger: George, when you're writing in a format such
as this you should really try to seperate the action from the
dialogue. Here, I'll show you how.
<Phasm draws his Phasar Saber and powers it up>
Phasm Ranger: PHASAR FLURRY!
<Phasm swings the saber and releases a wave of extremely cold energy.
George literally freezes in place, completely unable to
move>
Phasm Ranger: LIGHT OF PHASM.... ACTIVATE!
<Bands of armor form around Phasm's arms and legs and a claw forms on his
left hand. His Phasar Saber's hilt changes shape. Phasm then touches the
edge of the Saber to the green jewel on
his right arm>
Phasm Ranger: POWER UP MODE!
<Phasm transforms into a ball of light and streaks toward George.
He then stops suddenly and changes back>
Phasm Ranger: Wait a sec..... I can't go through him! That'd be.....
That'd be..... Well....... Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!! I'd better
do something else!
<Phasm powers up his Saber and claw and proceeds to hack and slash the
frozen George into crushed ice. He then puts what's left
into an ice bucket, heads over to the White House, and pours the contents
down Bill Clinton's pants>
Phasm Ranger
Phasm Ranger: Now, THAT'S action.... and comedy!
Skippy: Aunt Slappy would be proud!
miko
says...
>
>And you'd
>be surprised by the number of people with "Lee" as their last name, who aren't
>asian at all.
Yeah, like Jesse Lee Herndon..better known to people on the newsgroup as Sir
STACK. <grin> ^_^
miko
Oops, I just noticed you said last names. ^_^
Jonathan S. Latu
S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee, confederate
(bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
--
----
"Still you are outnumbered by the monsters. May the Power protect you." --
Zordon, MMPR: The Wedding
"Honest, sweet, gentle were words women used to describe me. 'At last, a man
we can trust,' they would say. And then they would proceed to tell me all
about the men they loved."
-- Reuven and women, Legacy of the Darksword
"Get the Hell out of our galaxy!"
-- Sheridan telling the First Ones off, Babylon 5:Into the Fire
"You're beginning to learn when you can tell yourself, 'I'm wrong.'"
--Myself
"The light that burns, that is truth. The light that reveals, that is
wisdom." -- myself
Jonathan S. Latu
Email: la...@purdue.edu
AIM: WhiteNinZ
ICQ: 48711033
Riddler
> <Phasm powers up his Saber and claw and proceeds to hack and slash the
> frozen George into crushed ice. He then puts what's left
> into an ice bucket, heads over to the White House, and pours the contents
> down Bill Clinton's pants>
I don't know if even that worthless excuse for a politician deserves Rodd.
Jonathan S. Latu
Rotwang <Rot...@yucom.be> wrote in message
news:z2IOWfmg$GA.275@btbntsys4...
>
> > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee, confederate
> > (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
>
> ever ... I suggest you read about what happened when Lee surrendered to
> Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
I never said anything about his skill. I just don't like the man. I don't
like his ideal. And I think South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
Rotwang
miko
>
>
>miko <miko_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:89f2ug$1p...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> In article <89f2d6$1o...@drn.newsguy.com>, miko says...
>> >
>> >In article <20000221015837...@ng-ck1.aol.com>,
>sirs...@aol.com
>> >says...
>> >>
>> >>And you'd
>> >>be surprised by the number of people with "Lee" as their last name, who
>aren't
>> >>asian at all.
>> >
>> >
>> >Yeah, like Jesse Lee Herndon..better known to people on the newsgroup as
>Sir
>> >STACK. <grin> ^_^
>> >
>>
>> Oops, I just noticed you said last names. ^_^
>
>
>(bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
>
LoL! ^_^
Jonathan S. Latu
> > > > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee,
> > > >confederate (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
> > >
Generals
> > > ever ... I suggest you read about what happened when Lee surrendered
to
> > > Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
> >
don't
> > like his ideal. And I think South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
>
> the politics ...
Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't need to bother with petty
things like justice and integrity.
MEGVOYAGER
news:89hnc1$b6b$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
heh.....exactly......you don't fight a war like that seeing what he saw and
continue unless he wanted to. Every confederate soldier was to kill any
white man helping any black man(brutally sometimes..) or to kill any black
man in general. You don't go along with something like that unless you
really want to. If he was just following orders like that, then he's a
bigger fool than I thought he was. Besides, their cause was dumb
anyway.....
Jonathan S. Latu
Captain Wolf <capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com> wrote in message
news:89hro8$m0k$1...@samba.rahul.net...
> : > > > > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee,
> : > > > >confederate (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
> : > > >
> : > > > He may have been a bastard to you, but he was
> : > > > one of the finest Generals ever ... I suggest
> : > > > you read about what happened when Lee surrendered
> : > > > to Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
> : > >
> : > > I never said anything about his skill. I just don't
> : > > like the man. I don't like his ideal. And I think
> : > > South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
>
> the following pass.
>
> Let's start with the fact that Robert E. Lee was
> a Virginian, NOT from South Carolina. And SC
> probably IS "getting what it deserves", but the
> FLAG issue is the least of that issue.
SC had nothing to do with Lee, except they both have racist overtones.
> : > He fought in the war because his state needed him, he never bothered
about the politics ...
>
> : Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't
> : need to bother with petty things like justice and
> : integrity.
>
> His state needed him, yes. He also had sworn oaths
> that left him bound by honor to serve the Southern
> cause. I, born and raised in California, respect
> him for maintaining his honor and integrety far more
> than I do General <Slash and Burn> Sherman.
>
> Honor and Duty above all.
Above all else, a person's duty is to his self. If he can face himself in
the morning, good for him. Too bad I don't agree with him or his 'cause,' a
cause I might add that shames humanity in general and Americans
specifically.
Rotwang
> >
> > > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee,
confederate
> > > (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
> >
> > He may have been a bastard to you, but he was one of the finest Generals
> > ever ... I suggest you read about what happened when Lee surrendered to
> > Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
>
> I never said anything about his skill. I just don't like the man. I don't
> like his ideal. And I think South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
He fought in the war because his state needed him, he never bothered about
the politics ...
Captain Wolf
: Rotwang <Rot...@yucom.be> wrote in message
: news:Zcgjlxwg$GA.434@btbntsys4...
: > > > > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee,
: > > > >confederate (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
: > > >
: > > > He may have been a bastard to you, but he was
: > > > one of the finest Generals ever ... I suggest
: > > > you read about what happened when Lee surrendered
: > > > to Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
: > >
: > > I never said anything about his skill. I just don't
: > > like the man. I don't like his ideal. And I think
: > > South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
I was going to stay out of this, but I can't let
the following pass.
Let's start with the fact that Robert E. Lee was
a Virginian, NOT from South Carolina. And SC
probably IS "getting what it deserves", but the
FLAG issue is the least of that issue.
: > He fought in the war because his state needed
: > him, he never bothered about the politics ...
: Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't
: need to bother with petty things like justice and
: integrity.
His state needed him, yes. He also had sworn oaths
that left him bound by honor to serve the Southern
cause. I, born and raised in California, respect
him for maintaining his honor and integrety far more
than I do General <Slash and Burn> Sherman.
Honor and Duty above all.
Wolf
Bard
--
I'm a 40+ year old woman who reads comic books,
listens to both classical music and rock,
programs databases, and watchs POWER RANGERS.
...Got a problem with that? <WEG>
Captain Wolf
: Captain Wolf <capta...@monarchy.modusvarious.com> wrote in message
: news:89hro8$m0k$1...@samba.rahul.net...
: > : > > > > S'ok miko, I just thought of another for ya: Robert E. Lee,
: > : > > > >confederate (bastard, oops, did I say that) general.
: > : > > >
: > : > > > He may have been a bastard to you, but he was
: > : > > > one of the finest Generals ever ... I suggest
: > : > > > you read about what happened when Lee surrendered
: > : > > > to Grant, that's a fine lesson in gallantry ...
: > : > >
: > : > > I never said anything about his skill. I just don't
: > : > > like the man. I don't like his ideal. And I think
: > : > > South Carolina is getting what it deserves.
: >
: > I was going to stay out of this, but I can't let
: > the following pass.
: >
: > Let's start with the fact that Robert E. Lee was
: > a Virginian, NOT from South Carolina. And SC
: > probably IS "getting what it deserves", but the
: > FLAG issue is the least of that issue.
: SC had nothing to do with Lee, except they both
: have racist overtones.
I hate to burst you bubble, kiddo, but even the
"Great Emancipator" was "racist" by today's standards.
I don't know whether you know this or not (or even
care) but the "Emancipation Proclamation" freed slaves
ONLY in those states that where at war with the North.
: > : > He fought in the war because his state needed him,
: > : > he never bothered about the politics ...
: >
: > : Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't
: > : need to bother with petty things like justice and
: > : integrity.
: >
: > His state needed him, yes. He also had sworn oaths
: > that left him bound by honor to serve the Southern
: > cause. I, born and raised in California, respect
: > him for maintaining his honor and integrety far more
: > than I do General <Slash and Burn> Sherman.
: >
: > Honor and Duty above all.
: Above all else, a person's duty is to his self. If
: he can face himself in the morning, good for him.
: Too bad I don't agree with him or his 'cause,' a
: cause I might add that shames humanity in general and
: Americans specifically.
<lecture mode>
The Southern "cause" was "States Rights", NOT really
slavery. The South tried to sever ties with the North
because the FEDERAL government was trying to tell the
Southern states what to do within each state's own
territory.
If the Civil War had not occured, and the South not
ground down by the Northern winners, there would in
all probability still be no slavery today. Believe
it or not economics would have brought an end to
slavery. Slavery as was seen in the south was viable
only in an agrarian based economy. The north was
industrial based and southern slavery was simply
not economically viable.
This being the case southern slavery would have
ended, and ended without any of the "You are a
FREE MAN now...oh you can't read? You can't write?
You don't know how to survive without a master,
because you were never taught how? To bad. Learn,
starve or die."
</lecture mode>
Jonathan S. Latu
Captain Wolf wrote:
> : > I was going to stay out of this, but I can't let
> : > the following pass.
> : >
> : > Let's start with the fact that Robert E. Lee was
> : > a Virginian, NOT from South Carolina. And SC
> : > probably IS "getting what it deserves", but the
> : > FLAG issue is the least of that issue.
>
> : SC had nothing to do with Lee, except they both
> : have racist overtones.
>
> I hate to burst you bubble, kiddo, but even the
> "Great Emancipator" was "racist" by today's standards.
> I don't know whether you know this or not (or even
> care) but the "Emancipation Proclamation" freed slaves
> ONLY in those states that where at war with the North.
I know that. Politically, that was all he could do, since society on both
sides of the line accepted slavery, albeit more tenuosly up in the North
(and that because of the Mason-Dixon line agreement)
> : > : > He fought in the war because his state needed him,
> : > : > he never bothered about the politics ...
> : >
> : > : Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't
> : > : need to bother with petty things like justice and
> : > : integrity.
> : >
> : > His state needed him, yes. He also had sworn oaths
> : > that left him bound by honor to serve the Southern
> : > cause. I, born and raised in California, respect
> : > him for maintaining his honor and integrety far more
> : > than I do General <Slash and Burn> Sherman.
> : >
> : > Honor and Duty above all.
>
> : Above all else, a person's duty is to his self. If
> : he can face himself in the morning, good for him.
> : Too bad I don't agree with him or his 'cause,' a
> : cause I might add that shames humanity in general and
> : Americans specifically.
>
> <lecture mode>
>
> The Southern "cause" was "States Rights", NOT really
> slavery. The South tried to sever ties with the North
> because the FEDERAL government was trying to tell the
> Southern states what to do within each state's own
> territory.
Lincoln never wanted war, but the South fired the first shot before Lincoln
even DID anything. This wasn't asserting their right. This was "Mine is
bigger than yours."
> If the Civil War had not occured, and the South not
> ground down by the Northern winners, there would in
> all probability still be no slavery today. Believe
> it or not economics would have brought an end to
> slavery. Slavery as was seen in the south was viable
> only in an agrarian based economy. The north was
> industrial based and southern slavery was simply
> not economically viable.
Small comfort. "Oh, we can't afford to be bastards anymore. You're free now.
Buh-bye"
> This being the case southern slavery would have
> ended, and ended without any of the "You are a
> FREE MAN now...oh you can't read? You can't write?
> You don't know how to survive without a master,
> because you were never taught how? To(o) bad. Learn,
> starve or die."
So the greater good would have been served by doing nothing? You ever
consider that just because they wouldn't have been slaves officially, they
would have been slaves unofficially? It most likely would have degenerated
into segregation and Jim Crow laws. Without the 13-15 amendments to the
Constitution, which were passed after the Civil War, the former slaves would
have had no legal recourse. Remember, they were still only 3/5 of a man.
--
"Honest, sweet, gentle were words women used to describe me. 'At last, a
man we can trust,' they would say. And then they would proceed to tell me
all about the men they loved." -- Reuven and women, Legacy of the
Darksword
"But for now, let us maximize.....and SLAG SOME BUTT!" -- Tigatron, BW:
"Call of the Wild"
"Still you are outnumbered by the monsters. May the Power protect you." --
Zordon, MMPR: The Wedding
"Get the Hell out of our galaxy!" -- Sheridan telling the First Ones off,
Babylon 5:Into the Fire
"What's wrong Megatron? Is your single elegant machine having trouble
multitasking?" -- Optimus Primal, Beast Machines
"Yes. My love has...many skills" -- Silverbolt regarding Black Arachnia
"One more time." -- Bill Stultz at marching band practices (How exactly
does one translate to ten Bill?)
miko
Abraham Lincoln, the Southern states decided they had to take drastic action in
order to protect their own interests. On December 20, 1860, a secession
convention met in South Carolina and adopted an Ordinance of Secession from the
Union. Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas quickly
followed suit. These states sent delegates to Montgomery, Alabama and on
February 8, 1861 adopted a provisional constitution for the newly formed
Confederate States of America. Jefferson Davis was chosen as the President for a
six-year term of office. The Constitution by which the permanent government of
the Confederate States of America was formed was reported by the committee and
adopted by the Provisional Congress on the 11th of March, 1861, to be submitted
to the States for ratification. All States ratified it and conformed themselves
to its requirements without delay. The Constitution varied in very few
particulars from the Constitution of the United States, preserving carefully the
fundamental principles of popular representative democracy and confederation of
co-equal States.
These events were to set the stage for the bloodiest and saddest war in American
history. In a conflict that combined elements of the Napoleonic Age with
features of the new Machine Age, at least 600,000 Americans would lose their
lives fighting for constitutional principle, sectional differences, economic
self-interest, and moral righteousness. As a defining moment in United States
history, our Civil War has no equal, which is why it remains such a fascinating
subject even today.
Slavery is an evil institution and should have never been allowed to exist, much
less have a whole country grow up around it. Its believed that as the Industrial
Revolution moved into the South, slavery would have died of its own evilness.
Thus, 620,000 American lives would not have been lost. However, this is easy to
say when you are in the late 20th century and not living in bondage."
-Shotgun- Home of the American Civil War
Scholars have said that the North was not pre-destined to win. Had the South
been able to create more of a revolutionary character, including guerrilla
warfare, or if the North had proven truly inept in its use of armed force
(Brinton), we could have two countries today.
Demographically, the North had a larger population from which to pull its
forces. The South's population had more martial skills such as sharpshooting.
Geographically, the South had advantages. It was a large country with difficult
terrain and population spread throughout. It was difficult to subdue.
Politically, the South appeared initially to have the advantage as Lincoln
barely had a majority and was continually fighting to keep the Democrats
supportive. Eventually, however, it seems that the South's unity was much weaker
than it looked. Lincoln had a much better understanding than Davis of the
importance of civilian morale, and how to maintain it. Economically, the North
had most of the industry necessary to support a war while still maintaining some
sort of civilian economy. The South developed adequate industry, but could have
done more to mobilize itself economically. Had it not been counting on King
Cotton to win it international allies, it could have switched to food crops to
help sustain it. Operationally, both sides had good forces and commanders. The
difference was at the strategic-operational level--Lincoln relatively quickly
found a general in chief (Halleck) who could coordinate the operational level.
Davis never established that type of chain of command.
I do not think that technology played a significant TACTICAL role in the North's
victory. Both sides had access to the same technology, and the technology of the
day tended to support defense more than offense (rifled muskets but smooth-bore
artillery). On the other hand, logistically, the railroad, telegraph, and canned
food supported the North's need for mobility in a large, hostile country. The
South needed these technologies less to operate--if they had not been available,
the war would have been much more difficult for the North to conduct.
I've read different theories as to why the South lost the war from Economic,
Military, Diplomatic, to Social and Political. I personally believe it was a
little of all of those combined. And don't believe for one moment that the now
'free slaves' from the South had an easy time up North. They along with anyone
else who was non white were still discrimated against, but at least they were
not found hanging from a tree dis-ebowled like quite a few blacks were after the
War at the hands of some ex-Confederate soldiers who had a vendetta against them
still running around at night in sheets terroizing people.
Captain Wolf
: Captain Wolf wrote:
: > : > I was going to stay out of this, but I can't let
: > : > the following pass.
<snip>
: > I hate to burst you bubble, kiddo, but even the
: > "Great Emancipator" was "racist" by today's standards.
: > I don't know whether you know this or not (or even
: > care) but the "Emancipation Proclamation" freed slaves
: > ONLY in those states that where at war with the North.
: I know that. Politically, that was all he could do, since
: society on both sides of the line accepted slavery, albeit
: more tenuosly up in the North (and that because of the
: Mason-Dixon line agreement)
He only did it, because he hoped that it would cause a slave
uprising in the south. If you read some of the things that he
said, you will find that like most of the "white" population
of the day he felt that blacks where in "natural fact" inferior
to whites. <sigh>
: > : > : > He fought in the war because his state needed him,
: > : > : > he never bothered about the politics ...
: > : >
: > : > : Oh I see, because his state needed him, he didn't
: > : > : need to bother with petty things like justice and
: > : > : integrity.
: > : >
: > : > His state needed him, yes. He also had sworn oaths
: > : > that left him bound by honor to serve the Southern
: > : > cause. I, born and raised in California, respect
: > : > him for maintaining his honor and integrety far more
: > : > than I do General <Slash and Burn> Sherman.
: > : >
: > : > Honor and Duty above all.
: >
: > : Above all else, a person's duty is to his self. If
: > : he can face himself in the morning, good for him.
: > : Too bad I don't agree with him or his 'cause,' a
: > : cause I might add that shames humanity in general and
: > : Americans specifically.
: >
: > <lecture mode>
: >
: > The Southern "cause" was "States Rights", NOT really
: > slavery. The South tried to sever ties with the North
: > because the FEDERAL government was trying to tell the
: > Southern states what to do within each state's own
: > territory.
: Lincoln never wanted war, but the South fired the first
: shot before Lincoln even DID anything. This wasn't asserting
: their right. This was "Mine is bigger than yours."
Sorry, no matter how much people like to think so, the
President is NOT the Government. He is merely one aspect
of it. Take a look at what was being voted into law by
congress, (not much different from today really) before
that "first shot" was fired.
Consider, if you will, the fact that California (admitted
to the Union in 1850) was admitted as a single state
rather than as two. This was done solely to prevent the
second state from being admitted as a slave state, there
by denying the southern states another vote. THIS was
more of a case of "Mine is bigger than yours," than Fort
Sumter.
: > If the Civil War had not occured, and the South not
: > ground down by the Northern winners, there would in
: > all probability still be no slavery today. Believe
: > it or not economics would have brought an end to
: > slavery. Slavery as was seen in the south was viable
: > only in an agrarian based economy. The north was
: > industrial based and southern slavery was simply
: > not economically viable.
: Small comfort. "Oh, we can't afford to be bastards anymore.
: You're free now. Buh-bye"
<sigh>"Uncle Tom's Cabin" not withstanding, there were
as many caring people in the south as there were in
the north. There were hellish abuses, yes. There were
in the northern mills as well. The only real differences
between southern slavery and northern mills and mines was
the fact that in the South the "masters" had to feed, clothe
and house the slaves. Mill workers and miners had to figure
out how to do that on the little they were paid.
: > This being the case southern slavery would have
: > ended, and ended without any of the "You are a
: > FREE MAN now...oh you can't read? You can't write?
: > You don't know how to survive without a master,
: > because you were never taught how? To(o) bad. Learn,
: > starve or die."
: So the greater good would have been served by doing nothing?
: You ever consider that just because they wouldn't have been
: slaves officially, they would have been slaves unofficially?
What in the HELL do you think sharecroppers (white and black)
where.
: It most likely would have degenerated into segregation and
: Jim Crow laws.
Doubtful. The "Jim Crow" laws where in direct response to
the laws and other actions being forced on the losers by
by arrogant carpetbaggers and the exslaves they were using
as their tools. At that point, few blacks where educated
enough to know what they were being told to vote for. The
anger at this is what's behind those laws.
: Without the 13-15 amendments to the Constitution, which
: were passed after the Civil War, the former slaves would
: have had no legal recourse. Remember, they were still only
: 3/5 of a man.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Short of acquiring a machine that
can take us to parallel universes we can never know for
sure.
Do bear something else in mind.
Everyone has heard of the Andersonville Prison for Northern
prisoners and the abuses that took place there.
You never hear about the fact that there was a Northern
prison that was as bad if not worse in its treatment of
Southern prisoners. <sigh>
Rotwang
The sad fact is that Lincoln really tried everything to avoid tangling the
issue of Slavery. It's only after Gettysburg when the "Lee is invincible"
myth was shattered that he "grudgingly" put slavery on the agenda, under
considerable pressure from abolitionists.
To say the Civil war was fought over slavery is not that smart ...
But perhaps enough of this discussion ??? It's interesting, but I hate it
when a topic gets out of hand too much ...
Jonathan S. Latu
> Jonathan S. Latu (reaching for the coffee) wrote:
>
> : Captain Wolf wrote:
>
> : > : > I was going to stay out of this, but I can't let
> : > : > the following pass.
>
> <snip>
>
> : > I hate to burst you bubble, kiddo, but even the
> : > "Great Emancipator" was "racist" by today's standards.
> : > I don't know whether you know this or not (or even
> : > care) but the "Emancipation Proclamation" freed slaves
> : > ONLY in those states that where at war with the North.
>
> : I know that. Politically, that was all he could do, since
> : society on both sides of the line accepted slavery, albeit
> : more tenuosly up in the North (and that because of the
> : Mason-Dixon line agreement)
>
> He only did it, because he hoped that it would cause a slave
> uprising in the south. If you read some of the things that he
> said, you will find that like most of the "white" population
> of the day he felt that blacks where in "natural fact" inferior
> to whites. <sigh>
Of course he hoped that it would start an uprising. He was in the middle of
a war. And unfortunately, anthropologic attitudes at the time reinforced his
opinions on blacks.
Fine. Let them take a legal recourse. Did the admission of California as a
free state really justify going to war with the federal government? They
agreed to live and abide by the laws of the United States, not to jump ship
if they happened to disagree with some laws. Tough, but that's how a
democracy works. Say, I disagree with income taxes, can I declare war on the
federal government and not pay(something similar has actually been tried).
The South had their say. Just cause they didn't get the results they wanted
doesn't give them the right to childishly stalk off and start a war.
> : > If the Civil War had not occured, and the South not ground down by the
Northern winners, there
> : > would in all probability still be no slavery today. Believe it or not
economics would have brought an > : > end to slavery. Slavery as was seen
in the south was viable only in an agrarian based economy. The > : > north
was industrial based and southern slavery was simply not economically
viable.
>
> : Small comfort. "Oh, we can't afford to be bastards anymore.
> : You're free now. Buh-bye"
>
> <sigh>"Uncle Tom's Cabin" not withstanding, there were
> as many caring people in the south as there were in
> the north. There were hellish abuses, yes. There were
> in the northern mills as well. The only real differences
> between southern slavery and northern mills and mines was
> the fact that in the South the "masters" had to feed, clothe
> and house the slaves. Mill workers and miners had to figure
> out how to do that on the little they were paid.
They had their dignity and their pride. Wasn't it a white man that said
"Better to die on my feet than live on my knees."? (I probably mangled that
quote anyway). My point being, being a 'nice' slave owner doesn't change the
fact that they were still slave owners.
> : > This being the case southern slavery would have
> : > ended, and ended without any of the "You are a
> : > FREE MAN now...oh you can't read? You can't write?
> : > You don't know how to survive without a master,
> : > because you were never taught how? To(o) bad. Learn,
> : > starve or die."
>
> : So the greater good would have been served by doing nothing?
> : You ever consider that just because they wouldn't have been
> : slaves officially, they would have been slaves unofficially?
>
> What in the HELL do you think sharecroppers (white and black)
> where.
Yes, but my point was they still would have existed either way without
anyone saying anything about the injustice that was slavery.
> : It most likely would have degenerated into segregation and
> : Jim Crow laws.
>
> Doubtful. The "Jim Crow" laws where in direct response to
> the laws and other actions being forced on the losers by
> by arrogant carpetbaggers and the exslaves they were using
> as their tools. At that point, few blacks where educated
> enough to know what they were being told to vote for. The
> anger at this is what's behind those laws.
Perhaps, but why were they enforced for so long then? And again, why did
they not seek a 'real' legal recourse instead of this 'backdoor' legal mine.
> : Without the 13-15 amendments to the Constitution, which
> : were passed after the Civil War, the former slaves would
> : have had no legal recourse. Remember, they were still only
> : 3/5 of a man.
>
> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Short of acquiring a machine that
> can take us to parallel universes we can never know for
> sure.
Hrmph. You mean a minority group of people in power wouldn't have tried
everything they could to stay in power? You have a higher opinion of people
than I thought.
> Do bear something else in mind.
>
> Everyone has heard of the Andersonville Prison for Northern
> prisoners and the abuses that took place there.
>
> You never hear about the fact that there was a Northern
> prison that was as bad if not worse in its treatment of
> Southern prisoners. <sigh>
Happens every war. Each sides 'says' they're going to treat prisoners
nicely, they beat the living *@#*! out of them. Yes, I do know Lincoln froze
habeas corpus. I know the North weren't the guys in the white hats. But the
South aren't even close.
> I'm a 40+ year old woman who reads comic books,
> listens to both classical music and rock,
> programs databases, and watchs POWER RANGERS.
> ...Got a problem with that? <WEG>
--
----
Jonathan S. Latu
> Lee was a soldier and did his job ...
>
> The sad fact is that Lincoln really tried everything to avoid tangling the
> issue of Slavery. It's only after Gettysburg when the "Lee is invincible"
> myth was shattered that he "grudgingly" put slavery on the agenda, under
> considerable pressure from abolitionists.
>
> To say the Civil war was fought over slavery is not that smart ...
No, it was fought because the South decided to leave because they didn't get
their way in Congress.
> But perhaps enough of this discussion ??? It's interesting, but I hate it
> when a topic gets out of hand too much ...
Perhaps. Keep in mind though, that emotional interest in history is good.
Only when something like the Civil War DOESN'T stir anything in you is when
I start worrying.
Rotwang
At too many times in too many places have events of similar magnitude
occurred ...
Pseudo Sonic
and continue unless he wanted to. Every confederate soldier was to kill any
white man helping any black man(brutally sometimes..) or to kill any black
man in general. You don't go along with something like that unless you
really want to. If he was just following orders like that, then he's a
bigger fool than I thought he was. Besides, their cause was dumb
anyway.....<<
Well, dumb to you perhaps, but to the southerners that were fighting,
it was defending their way of life and their pride. Whether or not you agree
with their cause doessn't make their generals fools, it just means that they
were willing to fight for what they believe in.
Pseudo Sonic
have degenerated into segregation and Jim Crow laws. Without the 13-15
amendments to the Constitution, which were passed after the Civil War, the
former slaves would have had no legal recourse. Remember, they were still
only 3/5 of a man.<<
Well, it's not as if the south was a than hospitable place to blacks even
when they were freed from slavery. You can't wipe out the feelings of a
large group of people simply by making some changes to the constitution
Pseudo Sonic
when I start worrying.<<
Yeah...... but this newsgroup has little or nothing to do with the civil
war, and I would really like to know how a post entitled , "What is a Zord?"
, led to this in the first place.
Chris Neumann
Chris
Carter: I'm the Red Ranger! When we're in the Rail Ripoff, *I* get to
wear the engineer's cap!
Jonathan S. Latu
Chris Neumann <neu...@gourmet-night.com> wrote in message
news:neumann-0403...@3.nashville-03-04rs.tn.dial-access.att.net...
> Not that I read the whole thing, but didn't the south have a submarine?
Both sides had 'ironclads,' ships made of iron that looked like submarines
while they were on the surface. However, they never submerged.
--
----
"Still you are outnumbered by the monsters. May the Power protect you." --
Zordon, MMPR: The Wedding
"Honest, sweet, gentle were words women used to describe me. 'At last, a man
we can trust,' they would say. And then they would proceed to tell me all
about the men they loved."
-- Reuven and women, Legacy of the Darksword
"Get the Hell out of our galaxy!"
-- Sheridan telling the First Ones off, Babylon 5:Into the Fire
"You're beginning to learn when you can tell yourself, 'I'm wrong.'"
--Myself
"The light that burns, that is truth. The light that reveals, that is
Commander Crayfish
<snip>
Jonathan? I'm sorry, but this thread has veered far off-topic, and I really
think you and Wolf ought to take it to e-mail if you intend to continue it,
because it does NOT belong here. Politics is a Taboo Topic in the group FAQ for
a reason. And, to be honest, I don't want to be anywhere near this issue. I
don't think it has anything to do with anything, and it's only likely to cause
people to be offended needlessly.
And, as long as I'm here... Can you trim that signature just a bit, please? I
let it slide for a time, but... You've been here long enough to know that it's
not encouraged for them to exceed 8 lines... 10 at most. It's just a waste of
bandwidth, and it's also a status symbol for professional trolls... Who can
have the longest .sig.
Dante: "You hate people!"
Randal: "But I love gatherings. Isn't it ironic?"
*****************CLFu...@aol.com*****************
Jonathan S. Latu
Commander Crayfish <clfu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000304155919...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
> "Jonathan S. Latu" la...@purdue.edu wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Jonathan? I'm sorry, but this thread has veered far off-topic, and I
really
> think you and Wolf ought to take it to e-mail if you intend to continue
it,
> because it does NOT belong here.
Considering neither of us has continued the thread for three days, I think
it was dead, at least until you said something.
> Politics is a Taboo Topic in the group FAQ for a reason. And, to be
honest, I don't want to be anywhere
> near this issue. I don't think it has anything to do with anything, and
it's only likely to cause
> people to be offended needlessly.
If it offends people, at least they care enough to be offended. Politics are
falling apart not from corruption, but from apathy. It's like a machine that
needs to be maintained. Let the maintennance lag and the machine starts
going bad.
> And, as long as I'm here... Can you trim that signature just a bit,
please? I
> let it slide for a time, but... You've been here long enough to know that
it's
> not encouraged for them to exceed 8 lines... 10 at most. It's just a waste
of
> bandwidth, and it's also a status symbol for professional trolls... Who
can
> have the longest .sig
<sigh> Fine, fine. How's this?
--
"Still you are outnumbered by the monsters. May the Power protect you." --
Zordon, MMPR: The Wedding
"You're beginning to learn when you can tell yourself, 'I'm wrong.'"
--Myself
Jonathan S. Latu
Email: la...@purdue.edu
AIM: WhiteNinZ
ICQ: 48711033
>
>
>