OT: Piers Anthony
Tim Bruening
Andy00 wrote:
> Piers Anthony? I used to like his stuff, but eventually I just couldn't
> swallow the man's attitude towards women.
>
> Example "And Eternity" has a scene where two women who are friends are tested
> by some unknown being. One of them is turned into a man, and she instantly
> rapes the other "because of the onslaught of feelings."
>
> Moral? "Men should be respected for behaving as much as they do."
>
> Puke.
>
> The Bio of a Space Tyrant series is another example where the man's ego and
> sexual perspective are openly horrendous.
Hope even asked his wife to send him a woman!
> The Xanth series....most of the couples and why they get together also makes me
> wanna barf.
Raven
--
The fact that we've all made mistakes in no
way obligates us to tolerate them in others.
Raven
"Tim Bruening" <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:3B47F473...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
Joseph and Marisol
> Piers Anthony? I used to like his stuff, but eventually I just couldn't
swallow the man's
> attitude towards women.
> Example "And Eternity" has a scene where two women who are friends are
tested
> by some unknown being. One of them is turned into a man, and she
instantly
> rapes the other "because of the onslaught of feelings."
> Moral? "Men should be respected for behaving as much as they do."
> Puke.
I don't know where you get that moral from the books because there is not
such moral in the book. If you are the book carefully you will find that 1)
Orlene didn't rape Jooli although she tried. Nox interpose herself and
Orlene has with her (Nox is the unknown being that you refers to.) 2) when
the time comes and Orlene talks about Judge Roque, she refered to that
experience and said that what she learned was to understand the male drive
when is out of control and that she respected Judge Roque for his control.
She learned tolerance and understanding but she doesn't condone rape. These
are important qualities for her to adquire because they will help her in her
future job as incarnation, but she didn't know at the time.
> The Bio of a Space Tyrant series is another example where the man's ego
> and sexual perspective are openly horrendous.
> Hope even asked his wife to send him a woman!
Bio is quite a difficult series but your response to it is pretty much
laughable. There was more going on in the series that the man's ego and
sexual perspective. It is a tale about the rise of a idealistic man poised
to change the world and how power slowly corrupt him and distorn his
perpectives indeed. Hope is by definition an anti-hero character very flawed
indeed and we as readers are shown all his flaws to reflect on them. In a
way it is a warning of how power can corrupt the best of us. I don't
understand why you are so surprised that Hope's wife sent him a woman, if
you think about how politician wives tend to forgive their husband
infidelities to protect them and keep them in power. Think Hilary if you
will.
> The Xanth series....most of the couples and why they get together also
> makes me wanna barf.
Then don't read Xanth. It will keep clean your bedsheets. For some reasons
you don't seem able to control your barfing reflex. I don't mind to agree to
disagree about Piers' books but I will prefer a discussion that goes above
barfing reflexes. It keeps the conversation clean :-)
Good day,
Marisol
Marisol
SchramParents
>> Example "And Eternity" has a scene where two women who are friends are
tested
>> by some unknown being. One of them is turned into a man, and she instantly
>> rapes the other "because of the onslaught of feelings."
>>
>> Moral? "Men should be respected for behaving as much as they do."
>> Puke.
Marisol said,
>I don't know where you get that moral from the books because there is not
>such moral in the book.
True, there is no such moral in that scene. However, I assume he took the
following lines as the moral:
---begin quote---
"It seems that men have passions that women do not," Jolie said. ...
"But men do not--" Orlene faltered, unable to say the word [rape].
"They have learned control, we did not have time...."
---end quote---
That quote can be interpretted as saying that men are paragons of self-control
since they can resist their passions. That quote was part of a long
conversation between Jolie and Orlene in which they were trying to figure out
what lesson Nox was trying to teach them with the uncontrolled passions Nox
forced Orlene to experience. It was just one idea among many.
>If you are the book carefully you will find that 1)
>Orlene didn't rape Jooli although she tried. Nox interpose herself and
>Orlene has with her (Nox is the unknown being that you refers to.)
True, but Orlene had been about to rape Jolie and felt a great deal of guilt
(unwarranted guilt since she was essentially a puppet of Nox at the time) about
it. Afterward in conversation, Orlene talked as if her aborted attempted rape
were an actual rape. Perhaps Andy00 was fooled by Orlene's phrasing.
I myself have trouble with that scene mostly because even after I read the
entire book, I still don't understand what Nox was trying to teach Jolie and
Orlene with that scenerio. My favorite theory, partially supported by Nox's own
words, is that the surly, pushy, irrational man that Orlene turned into was
what Gawain II would be like if he grew up with his genetic ailment uncured.
Nox could have been pointing out that though she was willing to resurrect the
baby Gawain II, it was still necessary for Orlene to undertake a difficult
quest to get the ingredients to cure him. Piers Anthony made Nox such a
mysterious character throughout the book that I am never clear about her
motives. (Nox, the Incarnation of Night, was supposed to be mysterious. It was
part of her job.)
Andy00 also said,
>> The Xanth series....most of the couples and why they get together also
>> makes me wanna barf.
Poor guy. The real-life romance between my wife and me was about as syrupy
sweet as a Xanth romance, though a great deal slower. Andy00 must have this
reaction to a lot of things too real to ignore.
Marisol said,
>Then don't read Xanth.
I think Andy00 should avoid Piers Anthony altogether. Andy00's use of "puke"
and "barf" indicate that he likes to interpret what he reads on a gut level.
Piers Anthony tries to engage the heart of the reader via the reader's
intellect. Their styles are not compatible, so Andy00 just won't see the point
Piers Anthony is trying to make.
Erin Schram
Christine
>
>I think Andy00 should avoid Piers Anthony altogether. Andy00's use of "puke"
>and "barf" indicate that he likes to interpret what he reads on a gut level.
>Piers Anthony tries to engage the heart of the reader via the reader's
>intellect. Their styles are not compatible, so Andy00 just won't see the
>point
>Piers Anthony is trying to make.
That's what I got from it. And why is he posting this here, if he's not a Piers
Anthony fan?
~Christine
SchramParents
>>Their styles are not compatible, so
>>Andy00 just won't see the point
>>Piers Anthony is trying to make.
Christine replied,
>That's what I got from it. And why is he
>posting this here, if he's not a
>Piers Anthony fan?
Looks like Andy00 didn't post here himself. Tim Bruening quoted him in a
message that Mr. Bruening posted. Perhaps Mr. Bruening wanted to see some
opinions to contrast against Andy00's opinions.
Erin Schram
Joseph and Marisol
Nox the character, used this experience to groom Orlene for her future job
and also to show how Gawain's malady will turn out if he becomes a live
grown man. I think there are layers and layers of interpretations in Nox's
actions. I am not sure if Piers did this in purpose or it is just the way
the book can be read. I think this one of the most important scenes in the
novel because it shocked Orlene to the core of her being both mentally and
spirituality. This experience was the beginning of her transformation of a
grief-stricken woman with a very narrow view of the world, where black was
black and white was white, to a more tolerant, compassionate and wide-minded
woman that could change the world.
I suppose that is the beauty of Piers's work, you can't read it just in the
surface, you need to dig deeper to get all the nuances of meanings. I know
some fans believe that Piers use sex gratuitously, but I don't agree. He
always has a good reason to write the way he does. If we remove our mores
and think deeply why a scene is used in the book the way it is used we may
get those other meanings that may escape us when reading just the surface.
Marisol
"SchramParents" <schram...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010709014040...@ng-cv1.aol.com...
Joseph and Marisol
but at least it provides a good excuse to start a great discussion.
Marisol
"SchramParents" <schram...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010709195135...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
Tim Bruening
Raven wrote:
> Tim, that response is strange even for you. Would you mind explaining it?
I'll be happy to.
> "Tim Bruening" <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
> news:3B47F473...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> >
> >
> > Andy00 wrote:
> >
> > > The Bio of a Space Tyrant series is another example where the man's ego
> and
> > > sexual perspective are openly horrendous.
> >
> > Hope even asked his wife to send him a woman!
In book 5, after being ousted as leader of Jupiter, Hope Hurbris is exiled to
Saturn. He then sends a message to his wife (back on Jupiter) asking her to
send him a woman! This is an example supporting the thesis about Piers
Anthony's horrendous sexual perspective.
Timothy Bruening
North Saturn leader Mikhail Khukov had recruited Hope to lead the project to develop a light projection drive. At the time that Hope first learned of the project, Megan was governing Jupiter, preparing to return it to democracy. Why didn't Hope ask Megan to arrange to commit Jupiter to the project?
After cleaning up North Saturn (Russia), Hope went to Triton (Japan) to recruit its industrial capacities for the light drive project. Why didn't he take a side trip to recruit South Saturn (China)?
Mars (Middle East). Phobos (Israel) has control of Demos (West Bank of Jordan River). Hope arranged for Demos to be returned to Martian control as part of a deal to reserve half of Mars' iron for the project, and thus triple iron prices to make Mars rich again. Why not instead make Demos the independent nation of Palestine?
The iron would be turned into anti-matter and used for energy. Since the anti-matter iron is magnetic, it can be controlled by magnetic fields. This makes iron valuable.
