who is GOBLIN 2099.

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peter bailey

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Apr 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/26/96
to Peter, David

You wrote on the 20th that "Father Jennifer *was* the Goblin."and Gabriel
didn't walk in with a chest, but in the words(your words) of Gabe O'hara
"Hold this trunk for me till things settle down, Father" and then Father
Jennifer just has to show everyone whats in it - the GOBLIN COSTUME.

What's the story? -


Peter David

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Apr 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/27/96
to

Peter Bailey writes: "You wrote on the 20th that 'Father Jennifer *was*

the Goblin." and Gabriel didn't walk in with a chest, but in the
words (your words) of Gabe O'Hara, 'Hold this trunk for me till things
settle down, Father,' and then Father Jennifer just has to show
everyone what's in it - the GOBLIN COSTUME. What's the story?-"

The story is that I just got my comp copies of that issue and it's taken
me about half an hour to calm down enough to write this response...and
the first three tries at it were too profanity-ridden to post.

I did not write that dialogue. I repeat...I DID NOT WRITE THAT DIALOGUE.
Those are not, and never were, my words. Gabriel was not, and never was,
the Goblin (I mean, how freakin' *obvious* would that have been?)
I always intended Father Jennifer to be the Goblin. My scripting
simply read, "Go in peace, my son. We were fortunate to escape
the deluge," etc." The clumsily tossed in line of dialogue Peter
Bailey quotes was not mine. It makes no sense. Why in God's name
would Gabe shlep the thing to Father Jennifer and leave it with her?
That comes out of absolutely nowhere...whereas the notion of Father
Jennifer being the Goblin (right down to her having bruises after the
fight with Spider-Man) was carefully set up.

I thought it was bad when they unilaterally rewrote a page from my last
issue of X-FACTOR where Rahne Sinclair--who's been having the hots for
Alex and unsure why--walks past a street where male dogs start howling
and she realizes she's in heat. But this is worse. This is infuriating.

I am so glad I resigned off the series when Joey left. Issue #44, which
I wrote to finish off the storyline (so as not to gyp the fans) was the
single issue in which scripting was turned in that was edited by someone
other than Joey Cavalieri. And look what happens.

I don't give a damn what that misbegotten word balloon says. Gabe brought
no trunk, and Father Jennifer was the Goblin. Period. If anyone argues
otherwise, then that means they're accepting the word of a latecoming
pencil pusher over the word of the person who created every damned character
in that book.

PAD

Brian Hance

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Apr 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/27/96
to

Peter David <72550...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

>Peter Bailey writes: "You wrote on the 20th that 'Father Jennifer *was*
>the Goblin." and Gabriel didn't walk in with a chest, but in the
>words (your words) of Gabe O'Hara, 'Hold this trunk for me till things
>settle down, Father,' and then Father Jennifer just has to show
>everyone what's in it - the GOBLIN COSTUME. What's the story?-"
>
>The story is that I just got my comp copies of that issue and it's taken
>me about half an hour to calm down enough to write this response...and
>the first three tries at it were too profanity-ridden to post.
>
>I did not write that dialogue. I repeat...I DID NOT WRITE THAT DIALOGUE.
>Those are not, and never were, my words. Gabriel was not, and never was,
>the Goblin (I mean, how freakin' *obvious* would that have been?)
>I always intended Father Jennifer to be the Goblin. My scripting
>simply read, "Go in peace, my son. We were fortunate to escape
>the deluge," etc." The clumsily tossed in line of dialogue Peter
>Bailey quotes was not mine. It makes no sense. Why in God's name
>would Gabe shlep the thing to Father Jennifer and leave it with her?
>That comes out of absolutely nowhere...whereas the notion of Father
>Jennifer being the Goblin (right down to her having bruises after the
>fight with Spider-Man) was carefully set up.

I am woefully ignorant of the whole publishing industry. But I was under the
impression that an editor EDITS a book, not rewrites it.

This seems to be pretty common over at Marvel. Over on RACMX, Mark Waid and
Warren Ellis have pointed out some blatant rewrites (Really BAD rewrites). I'm
assuming that your, um, displeasure, means that this hands on method of editing
is a new development. Any idea why they're doing this?

>I thought it was bad when they unilaterally rewrote a page from my last
>issue of X-FACTOR where Rahne Sinclair--who's been having the hots for
>Alex and unsure why--walks past a street where male dogs start howling
>and she realizes she's in heat. But this is worse. This is infuriating.

<sigh> I miss you work on X Factor.

>I am so glad I resigned off the series when Joey left. Issue #44, which
>I wrote to finish off the storyline (so as not to gyp the fans) was the
>single issue in which scripting was turned in that was edited by someone
>other than Joey Cavalieri. And look what happens.

Since I don't have the issue handy (and am to fat and lazy to dig it up), who
was editing?

>I don't give a damn what that misbegotten word balloon says. Gabe brought
>no trunk, and Father Jennifer was the Goblin. Period. If anyone argues
>otherwise, then that means they're accepting the word of a latecoming
>pencil pusher over the word of the person who created every damned character
>in that book.
>
>PAD

Of course they couldn't let Father Jennifer be the Goblin, that would be
interesting and surprising. Much of what Marvel does nowadays is a 'lowest
common denominator' mentality.

Brian Hance bha...@primenet.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Although it's not what you and I would call dancing. Not good dancing
anyway. A demon moves like a white band on 'Soul Train'."
Giaman&Pratchett from Good Omens

Elayne Wechsler-Chaput

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Apr 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/28/96
to

Brian Hance (bha...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Peter David <72550...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:

: >The story is that I just got my comp copies of that issue and it's taken


: >me about half an hour to calm down enough to write this response...and
: >the first three tries at it were too profanity-ridden to post.
: >
: >I did not write that dialogue. I repeat...I DID NOT WRITE THAT DIALOGUE.

: >Those are not, and never were, my words...

: I am woefully ignorant of the whole publishing industry. But I was under the


: impression that an editor EDITS a book, not rewrites it.

: This seems to be pretty common over at Marvel. Over on RACMX, Mark Waid and
: Warren Ellis have pointed out some blatant rewrites (Really BAD rewrites). I'm
: assuming that your, um, displeasure, means that this hands on method of editing
: is a new development. Any idea why they're doing this?

My guess? Because they can.

You're absolutely right, Brian - Marvel editors (especially the X editors
but, as we see here, not limited to them) have this incredibly heavy
hands-on thing, and then they don't even double-check with their own
writers after they change dialogue! I'm sure stuff is changed at DC from
time to time, but I can't see freelancers there at least not being
CONSULTED if the editor feels something's amiss or in need of
clarification. Looks like Marvel *still* isn't trusting the creators.

But of course, as the ads are now bragging, it's all about CHARACTER now,
isn't it - not about respecting writers.

Feh.

- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "I couldn't get you to believe my name ##
was Mr. and Mrs. John Smith, could I?" _##_

Brian Hance

unread,
Apr 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/28/96
to

fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:

>You're absolutely right, Brian - Marvel editors (especially the X editors
>but, as we see here, not limited to them) have this incredibly heavy
>hands-on thing, and then they don't even double-check with their own
>writers after they change dialogue! I'm sure stuff is changed at DC from
>time to time, but I can't see freelancers there at least not being
>CONSULTED if the editor feels something's amiss or in need of
>clarification. Looks like Marvel *still* isn't trusting the creators.

I just don't understand why they just do the rewrite themselves. Makes for some
hackney, clumsy writing. As an example, over on RACMX with the latest
Excalibur, nearly everyone who reviewed cited the 'newly joined Colossus' line
as a little trite and out of place. Ellis quickly piped up and mentioned that
he never wrote that line and has no idea who did.

>But of course, as the ads are now bragging, it's all about CHARACTER now,
>isn't it - not about respecting writers.

The catch here is, without good writers given a little trust, the characters
will be flat, boring and cliched.

>Feh.

Feh^2.

Robert Shannon Gregg

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Apr 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/29/96
to

In article <4ltc8b$7ef$1...@mhadf.production.compuserve.com>, Peter David <72550...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
|> I did not write that dialogue. I repeat...I DID NOT WRITE THAT DIALOGUE.
|> Those are not, and never were, my words. Gabriel was not, and never was,
|> the Goblin (I mean, how freakin' *obvious* would that have been?)

Thank goodness! I was a tad disappointed when I saw that. Now the Father
being the Goblin, *that* sounds more like PAD to me. :) Too bad we'll
never get to see her in action..

Robert

Phil Geiger

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Apr 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM4/29/96
to

fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:


>But of course, as the ads are now bragging, it's all about CHARACTER now,
>isn't it - not about respecting writers.

>Feh.

>- Elayne

If the editors HAD any CHARACTER, they wouldn't make changes without
consulting the writer.

Phil


jerky

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May 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/1/96
to

>My guess? Because they can.

>You're absolutely right, Brian - Marvel editors (especially the X editors


>but, as we see here, not limited to them) have this incredibly heavy
>hands-on thing, and then they don't even double-check with their own
>writers after they change dialogue! I'm sure stuff is changed at DC from
>time to time, but I can't see freelancers there at least not being
>CONSULTED if the editor feels something's amiss or in need of
>clarification. Looks like Marvel *still* isn't trusting the creators.

>But of course, as the ads are now bragging, it's all about CHARACTER now,


>isn't it - not about respecting writers.

>Feh.

>- Elayne

As you said, it's especially the X-Editors that like to re-write the stories
at will, and obviously Bob Harras' name must come up in this conversation. Now
that he's EIC he's now trying to re-write other Marvel books at will like he
did with X-Men. I'm sure you agree with me on this. I mean, I'm really
sure that PAD INTENDED to have the Hulk face off against Cable and join up
with Onslaught. Im actually surprised that Peter's been awfully quiet about
this interference. You know, Bob's damn lucky that Peter really, REALLY wants
to stay on this book, otherwise he'd have to find another fill in writer right
about now, ala 2099.


Jerky!


Robert Seward

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May 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/7/96
to

> As you said, it's especially the X-Editors that like to re-write the stories
> at will, and obviously Bob Harras' name must come up in this conversation. Now
> that he's EIC he's now trying to re-write other Marvel books at will like he
> did with X-Men. I'm sure you agree with me on this. I mean, I'm really
> sure that PAD INTENDED to have the Hulk face off against Cable and join up
> with Onslaught. Im actually surprised that Peter's been awfully quiet about
> this interference. You know, Bob's damn lucky that Peter really, REALLY wants
> to stay on this book, otherwise he'd have to find another fill in writer right
> about now, ala 2099.

Is that what's happening? No wonder the What If episode that supposed Ben
Reilly kills Peter Parker was so out of continuity. By that time, it yhad
been settled that Peter is the clone.

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