OT:Harry Potter books
JeremyL
This morning I came across this in the newspaper. Not the same reason for
complaint as was suggested would be, but still.
FROM WIRE REPORT
COLUMBIA S.C.
PARENTS OBJECT TO BOOKS ABOUT HARRY POTTER
Children clamor for the three bestselling books about Harry Potter, but not
everyone loves the fictional orphan who attends a school for wizards.
A Group of parents on Tuesday persuaded the South Carolina's Board of
Education to review wether the books should be allowed in schools, complaining
that they are too violent for children. Parents elsewhere have raised similar
objections.
The stories, written by British author J.K. Rowling, outline the education
of young Harry, an English wizard at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and
Wizardry. The first book in the series, "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's
Stone," has spent 42 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list for adult
fiction.
I haven't read the books myself, so I can't comment on how violent they are,
but it bothers me none the less.
JeremyL
*Curiosity cured the Kender.
Edward Davis
I teach fifth grade and my children absolutely love the Harry Potter books. there
is some violence but not anything more shocking than books like Matilda and others
from Dahl. There is no graphic depictions of violence and although it may be too
intense for first or second graders the older kids love it. There are very
interesting characters and situations. I have never read a series that kept their
interest better than the Potter books. When I finished the first book in the
series about fifteen kids from my class went to the library so that they could read
it again. I really hope they don't get banned from my district.
Later,
Ed
JeremyL wrote:
--
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Reg142
wrote:
>
> Garry Francis <gifr...@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:iG0R3.24$bp3....@nnrp3.clara.net...
> >
> <snip>
>
> >animated
> > creatures (golems anyone? Now that's Old Testament isn't it - or the
> Hebrew
> > 'version' (Talmudic? I really don't know sorry)
>
> First of all, the Old Testament *is* in Hebrew (well, the original is,
> anyway).
>
> Here's a bit of what I know about the Golem:
>
> It's a much later legend than the Talmud (which was compiled in the 2nd and
> 3rd centuries, C.E., iirc). It's a medieval legend about a creature created
> by Rabbi Löw of Prague for the protection of persecuted Jews, supposedly
> with God's blessing and as an instrument of God's will. But things go awry,
> as we know. It's possible that the legend of the Golem prompted the idea
> for Frankenstein.
>
And here's a bit more. The Golem is made from clay and animated by
having the word "emeth" (meaning truth, if my knowledge of Hebrew is
vaguely existent,) inscribed on its forehead. Unfortunately it grows at
an alarming rate and is almost indestructible. The only way to turn it
back to clay is to erase te first letter of the word, making it "meth"
(in case you hadn't worked that out, ) meaning death. Needless to say,
the Golem is not neccesarily a willing participant in this process.
Oviously as a cautionary tale about the perils of hubris, it is a
precursor to Frankenstein, but I have never heard it mentioned as an
influence on Mary Shelley, being little known in Western Europe until
the late nineteenth century.
Reg(who makes no claims of Hebrew scholarship and would be pleased to
have his translations corrected)
--
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Jason Clements
from Edward Davis <niceg...@earthlink.net> contains these words:
> Hi,
> I teach fifth grade and my children absolutely love the Harry Potter books. there
> is some violence but not anything more shocking than books like Matilda and others
> from Dahl. There is no graphic depictions of violence and although it may be too
> intense for first or second graders the older kids love it.
Just to agree - no-one who has read these books can seriously
criticise them for violence (especially in a country where they seem
to hand out guns to kids for ****s sake ! NB to US thingies - I
don't include *you* in any implied criticism ! No flames, please).
There just isn't any.
There are some scenes which younger kids with an active imagination
would find quite scary - but they're very much within the bounds of
traditional ghost/scary stories.
I can only put this down to excessive religious paranoia re anything
connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
Or perhaps some adults are unconsciously recognising the description
of 'Muggles' (ie dull conventional people who aren't magic and
couldn't even conceive of it) as applying to themselves !
These books are thoroughly suitable - IMO - for any ages 10-100
Jason
Globalhead
<j.cle...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>The message <380520E5...@earthlink.net>
> from Edward Davis <niceg...@earthlink.net> contains these words:
>
>> Hi,
>> I teach fifth grade and my children absolutely love the Harry Potter
>books. there
>> is some violence but not anything more shocking than books like Matilda
>and others
>> from Dahl. There is no graphic depictions of violence and although it may be too
>> intense for first or second graders the older kids love it.
>
>Just to agree - no-one who has read these books can seriously
>criticise them for violence (especially in a country where they seem
>to hand out guns to kids for ****s sake ! NB to US thingies - I
>don't include *you* in any implied criticism ! No flames, please).
>There just isn't any.
>There are some scenes which younger kids with an active imagination
>would find quite scary - but they're very much within the bounds of
>traditional ghost/scary stories.
>I can only put this down to excessive religious paranoia re anything
>connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
>
The religious right just does not seem to realise that magic and witchcraft
used in fiction is used for allegorical purposes! It's one method of
explaining and examining the mysteries of the Human condition. Hence,
"Dracula" is not a about a Satanic Count turned Vampire from Translyvania;
"Dracula" is about Victorian sexual angst and the fear of female sexuality.
"Frankenstein" is not about monsters; Frankenstein is a tale about social
responisblity. Lovecraft's "Great Cthullu" stories are not about the
impending rise of The Great Cthullu; The Great Cthullu stories are about the
fear of societal decay and the reversion back to barbarism. "Interview with
the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
Jesus Fucking Christ. Magic and witchcraft are time-tested tools of the
writer's craft. Shakespeare used it in Macbeth and Julius Caeser. Shall we
ban Macbeth and Julius Caeser? Homer used it in "The Illiad" and "The
Odyssey" (and Heaven forend, other Gods!) shall we ban Homer? Down the list
I could go of author's who have used magic, witchcraft and the supernatural
in their stories and ergo should be banned from curious eyes: Virgil, Dante,
Milton, Byron, (Percy & Mary) Shelly. Even Dickens! Dickens used ghosts in
"A Christmas Carol"; therefore no more Dickens on Christmas Eve.
Sheesh. These people give realism a bad name.
::steps down off his soap box, takes some Valium, and goes to lay down::
Larry --
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty place from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle.
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
-- William Shakespeare.
Monkysquat
>the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
>Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
are about how much can I whine and pout
before somebody drives a stake thru my
sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
hate her books.
Ivory
"My soul is painted like the wings of butterflies,
faerie tales of yesterday will grow and never die,
I can fly my friend" The Show Must Go On -- Queen
Maldiction
>connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
Actually I think they've admitted that's the whole reason for the attacks, the
boy is training to be a witch and they think this'll make their kids want to be
witches. This is the only real reason I don't like depictions of magic in
fiction, as it's usually turned into something that it's not and people blow
the whole thing out of proportion as something evil and connected to Satan,
totally missing the truth about magic being that it's connected to everything.
I tend to overlook that, of course, if the story is well written.
Real witches are perfectly okay with the series, (I should know, I'm one of
'em) but are getting really mad that the religious right is trying to get them
banned. But then real witches tend to get mad at a lot of stuff the religious
right does. :)
Sadly, I haven't read the Harry Potter series at all yet, but with
everything I've been hearing about them I know I will eventually. My cousin
just loves them and he's 27.
*吩@d3*
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the fox
>The religious right just does not seem to realise that magic and witchcraft
>used in fiction is used for allegorical purposes!
<snippage>
i do agree with you, Larry, but i don't think this is remotely the
case here. i belong to the "pagan community", and i work in a
bookstore where these things sell like nothing else. so far, i've
heard not one complaint about the magic in the books. probably
because it's not "witchcraft" per se. it's "wizardry" and "sorcery".
i know, they're pretty much the same thing once you get down to it.
but culturally, wizards and sorcerors are comedic. they practice a
non-religious magic.
now... if it were _Harry Potter and the Witch's Stone_, that'd be a
different story.
magickally, JAC (who, yes, knows there's a difference between magic
and magick)
the fox
>>I can only put this down to excessive religious paranoia re anything
>>connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
>
>Actually I think they've admitted that's the whole reason for the attacks, the
>boy is training to be a witch and they think this'll make their kids want to be
>witches.
i... don't think so. this is actually the first i've heard of the
series being banned.
he's not training to be a witch. he's training to be a wizard. the
average person, given the two words, would probably say the only
difference is the gender, but they'd also say something like "can't
explain it, but i know there's a difference."
in training to be a wizard, it's obviuosly fiction. or... that's how
people see it.
observantly, JAC (who actually hasn't read them either, but sold the
last copy yesterday)
Karen McMurray
>
> >From: "Globalhead" globa...@mindspring.com
> "Interview with
> >the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
> >Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
>
> I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
> are about how much can I whine and pout
> before somebody drives a stake thru my
> sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
> hate her books.
>
I find Anne Rice a perplexing writer. I read "Interview" and absolutely
loved it. The writing was lush and beautiful... and I was left with
absolutely no desire whatsoever to ever read another one of her vampire
books.
If you want a really odd read -- and I suspect you don't, Ivory! -- try
her "Cry To Heaven". It's about equal parts a fictional (but
historically accurate) look at 18th century music, and a tawdry tale
about the hot sex life of the castrato. The bits about music are
gorgeous and moving, the rest is silly beyond belief.
-karen
--
klmcm...@home.com
Any language where the unassuming word 'fly' signifies an annoying
insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's
apparel is clearly asking to be mangled.
-- Bill Bryson, "The Mother Tongue"
Globalhead
monky...@aol.com (Monkysquat) wrote:
>>From: "Globalhead" globa...@mindspring.com
> "Interview with
>>the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
>>Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
>
>I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
>are about how much can I whine and pout
>before somebody drives a stake thru my
>sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
>hate her books.
>
Actually, Anne Rice's Vampires can't be killed by a stake through the heart.
The either must be immolated, exposed to the sun or dismembered.
Larry, who enjoys Anne Rice's books; the Vampire Chronicles at any rate.
Rev. NightWalker
> I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
> are about how much can I whine and pout
> before somebody drives a stake thru my
> sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
> hate her books.
As do I...but I view them as more of a 'How many times can I write myself into
a corner by killing off the main character, and then bringing him back yet
even more powerful than the last time?' type of story.
If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
vampire-esque).
--
* Never invoke the gods unless you really
want them to appear. It annoys them very much.
-- G.K. Chesterton
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Rev. NightWalker
> maldi...@aol.com (Maldiction) wrote:
>
> >>I can only put this down to excessive religious paranoia re anything
> >>connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
> >
> >Actually I think they've admitted that's the whole reason for the attacks,
the
> >boy is training to be a witch and they think this'll make their kids want
to be
> >witches.
>
> i... don't think so. this is actually the first i've heard of the
> series being banned.
>
> he's not training to be a witch. he's training to be a wizard. the
> average person, given the two words, would probably say the only
> difference is the gender, but they'd also say something like "can't
> explain it, but i know there's a difference."
Unfortunately, it's both. The majority of the outrage is a toss up between the
'violence and horror' in it (they say it's too much for a childrens-style
book), and the 'false spirituality through magic' angle. To the offended
people, pulling rabbits out of hats is just tricks...casting fireballs at your
enemies is unholy power that stems from the Heart of Satan, whether you're a
wizard, a warlock, a witch, or a wimp.
It's just a group of people in fear, because they don't want thier kids to
have imaginations.
ObGaiman: I've heard a disturbing report that the new Counting Crows CD cover
is that of 'Dad/Two Goldfish'. According to the picture on the website
(www.countingcrows.com), it's true. This is really creepy.
--
* I am a flying cow. Worship me or die.
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Globalhead
<night...@nightwalker.net> wrote:
>
>If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
>vampire-esque).
>
To tell you the truth I wasn't that impressed by P.N. Elrod. I just finished
reading a "Chill in the Blood" and the whole thing left me cold (yup, that
was an intentional pun). The *concept* -- and whenever you read a review of
a Vampire Files novel the unique concept is the first and only thing the
critics harp on -- was certain original; but the main character lacked
depth, he struck me as a 2 dimensional imitation of Philip Marlowe with
fangs; the supporting characters were equally bland; the way Elrod describes
'30s Chicago is shallow and lacks historical texture (when you compare him
to an author like James Ellroy); his dialogue was cardboard; the story was
silly and clichéd. Most importantly P.N. Elrod has no grasp on the proper
way to write roman noir. If you are going to write period crime fiction
(admittedly period crime fiction with quite a twist) it is going to have to
be dark and brooding. Elrod should take four years off, hold himself up in a
cabin with a couple of books on Chicago history and the complete works of
James Ellroy, and then write a novel that does not read like a A Young
Adults Detective Novel.
Larry, who has fairly high standards when it comes to crime fiction authors.
Morgan Thomas
Monkysquat wrote:
> >From: "Globalhead" globa...@mindspring.com
> "Interview with
> >the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
> >Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
>
> I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
> are about how much can I whine and pout
> before somebody drives a stake thru my
> sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
> hate her books.
Oooh. Like Vampire: The Masquerade (which I actually play and love, though I
like the other WOD games better, I just don't take it very seriously.)P.S I
read Interview and rather liked it, though I could see how the series could
drag on.There were some pretty cool ideas on Vampirism and the origin of
vampires in general is very cool.
Morgan Thomas
JeremyL
>If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
>vampire-esque).
I don't much care for Anne Rice either (Interview was one of the few times I've
ever said the movie was better than the book).
P.N. Elrod, I've read, and was pretty good. Some I've been reading recently
that I like are the Anita Blake novels by Laurell K. Hamilton.
Morgana
wrote:
May I also recommend Chelsea Quinn Yarbo's books about the ancient
vampire, Count Saint Germain. Never a dull moment. :)
Morgana.
"I close my eyes and the world drops dead, I lift my lids and all is born again."
Sylvia Plath "A Mad Girl's Love Song"
Remove "spam.off." from e-mail address.
Morgana
wrote:
>Monkysquat wrote:
>>
>> >From: "Globalhead" globa...@mindspring.com
>> "Interview with
>> >the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans; "Interview with a
>> >Vampire" is revolves around the central question of Humanity: "Who am I?".
>>
>> I disagree. The Anne Rice Vampire books
>> are about how much can I whine and pout
>> before somebody drives a stake thru my
>> sissy ass heart. As you might notice I
>> hate her books.
>>
>
>I find Anne Rice a perplexing writer. I read "Interview" and absolutely
>loved it. The writing was lush and beautiful... and I was left with
>absolutely no desire whatsoever to ever read another one of her vampire
>books.
I loved "The Vampire Lestat" right up until the end. Then it sucked.
And I absolutely loathed "Queen of the Damned." Such a silly book.
I really should have stopped with "Lestat" because "Queen" killed the
whole story deader than a stake thru the damn heart. :/
>
>If you want a really odd read -- and I suspect you don't, Ivory!
> -- try
>her "Cry To Heaven". It's about equal parts a fictional (but
>historically accurate)
True. The the same can be said about her novel "Feast of all Saints"
which focuses on the unique society of Free Coloreds, decendants of
African slaves who mixed with their French and Spanish captors,
living in Louisiana prior to the Civil War. Until I read this book, I
was unaware of their existence in history. Especially Southern
history. Very interesting read.
>look at 18th century music, and a tawdry tale
>about the hot sex life of the castrato. The bits about music are
>gorgeous and moving, the rest is silly beyond belief.
Speaking of hot sex...don't forget her brief foray into S&M erotica
with the "Sleeping Beauty" series written under the pseudonym A.N.
Roquelaure. ;)
Garry Francis
Rev. NightWalker wrote in message ...
>Monkysquat wrote:
<snippish>
>
>If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
>vampire-esque).
>
Lumley - well you would say that you Cthulhu-junkie...
How about Chelsea Quinn Yarbro or for really dark stuff try Somtow or Nancy
Collins
And for an eye-opening take with some *good* history stuff try Tom Holland
(The Vampyre, Supping With Panthers and Deliver Us From Evil)
Garry
the fox
>To tell you the truth I wasn't that impressed by P.N. Elrod. I just finishe=
>d
>reading a "Chill in the Blood" and the whole thing left me cold (yup, that
>was an intentional pun).
<snippage: budding critic>
ok, Larry. actually, i haven't gotten to the Vampire Files series,
but her (yes, that's a her. P is for Patricia.) Jonathan Barrett
books were good. (and i've heard he's a character in one of the
Vampire Files.) however, the main reason i haven't gotten into them
as of yet was that they LOOK so much like YA fiction. the way the
cover's designed and everything. i hate that.
however, has anyone else heard of Kim Newman? he's got three books
out now in a series known as "Anno Dracula", a sort of alternate
history where Dracula killed Harker, Jones, and Godalming instead of
the other way around. (then everybody thinks it's chic to be vampire,
and the world changed.)
the first one's about the ripper murders in 1888 (VERY close to truth,
as a personal observation), and the second one is after that, about
the First World War, with the Red Baron's group as a bunch of
shapeshifted vampires without planes. ach, you'll get the gist of it.
(admittedly, i haven't gotten to the third yet, but it's in my stack
of things to read. been there for almost a year now. i really have a
huge backlog.)
busily, JAC (who's reading a very Poe-ish book now by Harold Schecter,
author of a few true-crime books)
the fox
>Rev. NightWalker wrote in message ...
>>Monkysquat wrote:
><snippish>
>>
>>If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
>>vampire-esque).
>>
>Lumley - well you would say that you Cthulhu-junkie...
one thing that's been bugging me for quite a while now. i've read
Lovecraft, and i KNOW that's not how he spelled it. but that's how
the game's spelled. i'll probably forget to look when i go into work
later, so could someone (Walker?) actually look it up in case i do?
>How about Chelsea Quinn Yarbro or for really dark stuff try Somtow or Nancy
>Collins
ooh! Nancy A. Collins! Sonja Blue was certainly different. but
good. oh yes.
>And for an eye-opening take with some *good* history stuff try Tom Holland
>(The Vampyre, Supping With Panthers and Deliver Us From Evil)
don't forget _Lord of the Vampires_ and _Slave of My Thirst_ (a sort
of duology having to do with Byron as a vampire, the second being
about the ripper murders, in a loose kind of way. can you tell i like
reading other people's thoughts on the subject?)
studiously, JAC (who knows what really happened)
Rev. NightWalker
> Lumley - well you would say that you Cthulhu-junkie...
'No-one expects the Dagon Inquisition!' At least I didn't mention Dereleth or
anyone else...
> How about Chelsea Quinn Yarbro or for really dark stuff try Somtow or Nancy
> Collins
Main reason why I didn't mention them...is because they're really well-known
vampire writers. How many people mention Sonja Blue and the Somtow books when
you mentiuon vamipres? (P.N. Elrod isn't *that* well known, with the exception
of her two TSR/Ravenloft books) I like the weird, obscure ones. Truth be told,
the best vampire sutff I've ever read was 'Vampire Lore', a 1920's book on the
'...emerging vampire cults, and the dark lords that rule them...'. Oddly, it
was non-fiction. It's by some Dr. Leopold Spaas. It's almost as entertaining
as Dr. Ese's 11 signs of Demonic Possesion (from 'The Encyclopedia of
Occultism', Spence, 1960), to which I still have 5 out of 11 going...used to
have 7, but I stopped living alone for a while, and I'm not depressed. :)
--
* Scariest thing to see when least
expecting it: Inter-racial midget porn.
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Garry Francis
Globalhead wrote in message <7uvdu8$3pr$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>...
>In article <199910241...@zetnet.co.uk> , Jason Clements
><j.cle...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>The message <380520E5...@earthlink.net>
>> from Edward Davis <niceg...@earthlink.net> contains these words:
>>
>>>there is some violence but not anything more shocking than books like
Matilda
>>and others from Dahl.
Ooooh - he wrote a series of short stories based on his wartime experiences
(nothing to do with Tales Of The Unexpected and not the autobiography one -
a different one for adults - *very* dark and disturbing...)
<snippish>
>The religious right just does not seem to realise that magic and witchcraft
>used in fiction is used for allegorical purposes!
The 'religious right' doesn't seem to realise anything apart from their
bigoted beliefs so sod 'em...
>It's one method of
>explaining and examining the mysteries of the Human condition. Hence,
>"Dracula" is not a about a Satanic Count turned Vampire from Translyvania;
>"Dracula" is about Victorian sexual angst and the fear of female sexuality.
Hey - I once used those themes very constructively as part of a dissertation
on the late Victorian novel - 'Dracula' *is* about sexual angst and fear of
female sexuality (and fear of female freedoms full-stop) - this 'vampire'
thing is just a smoke-screen to hide the bigger issues...
>"Frankenstein" is not about monsters; Frankenstein is a tale about social
>responisblity.
Damn straight...
>Lovecraft's "Great Cthullu" stories are not about the
>impending rise of The Great Cthullu; The Great Cthullu stories are about
the
>fear of societal decay and the reversion back to barbarism.
Yup - couldn't agree with you more - Cthulhu - another word for Communism if
you ask me...
>"Interview with the Vampire" is not about vampirism in 18th New Orleans;
"Interview with a Vampire" is revolves around the central question of
Humanity: "Who am I?".
>
Yup - and teen sexual confusion...
What? - there are vampires in the story? - I took that as a veiled reference
to sexual desire...
>Jesus Fucking Christ. Magic and witchcraft are time-tested tools of the
>writer's craft.
Really - I thought they used pens... <g>
>Shakespeare used it in Macbeth and Julius Caeser.
And 'The Tempest' (and As You Like It)
>Shall we
>ban Macbeth and Julius Caeser?
Yay!
>Homer used it in "The Illiad" and "The
>Odyssey" (and Heaven forend, other Gods!) shall we ban Homer?
Damn straight - well, (wait for it) 'it's all Greek to me...' <groan>
> Down the list
>I could go of author's who have used magic, witchcraft and the supernatural
>in their stories and ergo should be banned from curious eyes: Virgil,
Pagan!
>Dante,
Obviously in sympathy with Satan!
>Milton,
Blasphemer!
Byron,
Immoral blaspheming hedonist!
(Percy & Mary) Shelly.
See above!!
>Even Dickens! Dickens used ghosts in
>"A Christmas Carol"; therefore no more Dickens on Christmas Eve.
>
'Dick-ens' - go wash your mouth out with soap boy!!
>Sheesh. These people give realism a bad name.
>
Heh - 'realism' and stories about Angels, day-trips to Hell, sea voyages
that take 20-plus years to complete, Witches-Advice Bureaux, animated
creatures (golems anyone? Now that's Old Testament isn't it - or the Hebrew
'version' (Talmudic? I really don't know sorry) anyway (and that should
*really* piss off the types who can quote scripture to support whatever they
want) ) made up of spare parts who wander about the country-side, vampire,
vampyres and even more bloody vampires and finally ghosts with attitude -
well, if that's 'reality' for you Larry old chap then I think you should lay
off the coffee for awhile... <g> - either that or move to a less 'exciting'
part of the country...
>::steps down off his soap box, takes some Valium, and goes to lay down::
>
Heh
It's all that Bradbury - filling your head with nonsense...
Well, that's how it started for me...
Rev. NightWalker
> one thing that's been bugging me for quite a while now. i've read
> Lovecraft, and i KNOW that's not how he spelled it. but that's how
> the game's spelled. i'll probably forget to look when i go into work
> later, so could someone (Walker?) actually look it up in case i do?
Actually, there are quite a few different spellings out there. Ones seen in
literature include:
Cthulhu
Cthulu
Ktuhlu
Ktulu
C'Thulu
Not to be confused with Cthon, Cthugua, etc.
It's technically pronounced 'Kuh-THOO-loo', but other pronunciations include
'Kuh-TOO-loo' and 'Kuh-THUL-hoo'.
Currently, 'Cthulhu' is the widely accepted version of the name, not only due
to the game, but due to revisions, collections, new stories, etc.
This study of Cthulian names has been brought to you by the USGS and Cal Tech,
reminding you there have been over 1004 earthquakes approx. 150 miles from the
West Valley. Damn, I love interactive maps.
--
* There's nary an animal alive that
can outrun a greased Scotsman!
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Bala Menon
<38145c94....@news.erols.com>...
> however, has anyone else heard of Kim Newman?
Yeesh ... I can't believe I forgot Newman. With the Vampire
thread, I've been thinking in terms of Edward Weyland (from
Suzy McKee Charnas' "Vampire Tapestry" and completely
forgot about Newman's Vampire trilogy.
> he's got three books out now in a series known as
> "Anno Dracula", a sort of alternate history where
> Dracula killed Harker, Jones, and Godalming instead of
> the other way around. (then everybody thinks it's
> chic to be vampire, and the world changed.)
Not to mention a whole lot of Philip Jose Farmer's Wold
Newton mythos, as Newman introduces a lot of characters
from Victorian literature into the novel. Including the Great
Detective, confined to a prison camp, as he was considered
too dangerous a foe of Dracula's regime to be allowed free.
> the first one's about the ripper murders in 1888 (VERY
> close to truth, as a personal observation), and the
> second one is after that, about the First World War,
> with the Red Baron's group as a bunch of shapeshifted
> vampires without planes.
Again, a lot of characters from 1930's literature, like Bigglesworth,
Von Stalhein, a vampiric Simon Templar and so on ...
> ach, you'll get the gist of it. (admittedly, i haven't gotten
> to the third yet, but it's in my stack of things to read.
> been there for almost a year now. i really have a
> huge backlog.)
Join the club :) I've been desperately trying to shrink the backlog,
and what do all these dratted authors do, but write _more_ books ...
<sigh>
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
"Houba ! Houba Houba Hop !"
Morgana
wrote:
>"Globalhead" <globa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>To tell you the truth I wasn't that impressed by P.N. Elrod. I just finishe=
>>d
>>reading a "Chill in the Blood" and the whole thing left me cold (yup, that
>>was an intentional pun).
>
><snippage: budding critic>
>
>ok, Larry. actually, i haven't gotten to the Vampire Files series,
>but her (yes, that's a her. P is for Patricia.) Jonathan Barrett
>books were good. (and i've heard he's a character in one of the
>Vampire Files.) however, the main reason i haven't gotten into them
>as of yet was that they LOOK so much like YA fiction. the way the
>cover's designed and everything. i hate that.
>
>however, has anyone else heard of Kim Newman? he's got three books
>out now in a series known as "Anno Dracula", a sort of alternate
>history where Dracula killed Harker, Jones, and Godalming instead of
>the other way around. (then everybody thinks it's chic to be vampire,
>and the world changed.)
Hey..I read the first of those...liked it immensely.
Captain Average
You might also try "The Holmes-Dracula File" and "An Old Friend of the
Family", the first two (and best by far) books in Fred Saberhagen's
Dracula series.
Tanya Huff's Vicki Nelson, PI series is also excellent (Blood Price,
Blood Trail, Blood Lines, Blood Pact and Blood Debt.
Captain Average, The Bloodthirsty Superhero
"You know it's been a strange day when you're looking forward to the
arrival of the bloodsucking undead!" - Vicki Nelson (Bllod Trail)
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
the fox
>Actually, there are quite a few different spellings out there. Ones seen in
>literature include:
>
>Cthulhu
>Cthulu
>Ktuhlu
>Ktulu
>C'Thulu
>
>Not to be confused with Cthon, Cthugua, etc.
>
<snippage: lit lesson>
but... but... you didn't answer the question. unless Lovecraft
himself couldn't make up his mind. (and i think you forgot Chthulu,
which is what i HAD, until i noticed the problem.)
teasingly, JAC (who... is actually serious, in a smartass kind of way)
the fox
>There's a good vampire book called The Madness Season, by C.S. Friedman. It's
>sf. Quite good.
actually, i don't really collect vampire fiction. what i do get is
usually Victorian in time period, and for research. i
compare/contrast skills and powers to use in my own... endeavours.
(blood)thirstily, JAC (who is nearly finished, but mostly not)
Rev. NightWalker
> but... but... you didn't answer the question.
I didn't? Damn! My ability to confuse the living hell out of someone must be
failing! Time to sacrifice more things...
> unless Lovecraft himself couldn't make up his mind.
<shrugs> I've seen HPL (in both letters, and literature) and Dereleth refer to
Him as Cthulhu, Cthulu, and Ctulhu. (Did I forget that one too?) I'm telling
you, it's all the bloody 'h's in there. There are other revisions out there,
though, that have it all transferred to Cthulhu, and that is the current
spelling new Mythos writers are using.
If you want to do a little summoning, I take no responsibility for misuse of
the name, or use of a improperly spelled/pronounced name.
--
* An adventure is only an inconvenience
rightly considered. An inconvenience is
an adventure wrongly considered. - G. K. Chesterton
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Captain Average
Include me in. The thing that most impresses me with Yarbro's
Saint-Germaine stories, is the way her writing style varies to reflect
the eras she's writing about. On that note, have any of you read her
Edwardian SG novella in Shadows 4: "The Spider Glass"? It's excellent.
Captain Average, The Non-Immortal Superhero
Bala Menon
<3814ebbd....@news.panix.com>...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:41:44 GMT, shiko...@tokyo.net (the fox)
> wrote:
>
> >however, has anyone else heard of Kim Newman? he's
> >got three books out now in a series known as
> >"Anno Dracula", a sort of alternate history where Dracula
> >killed Harker, Jones, and Godalming instead of
> >the other way around. (then everybody thinks it's
> >chic to be vampire, and the world changed.)
>
> Hey..I read the first of those...liked it immensely.
Try the third ... by this time, vampirism's reached the 1950's,
it's still immensely chic and the latest dance that's doing
the rounds is the Dracula Cha-cha-cha :-)
"Drac-u-la, Drac-u-la Dra !
Cha cha cha ..."
Christopher W. Shumway
: If you want good vampire fiction, read P.N. Elrod or Lumley (well,
: vampire-esque).
Seconded. I totally loved Lumley's first Necroscope series back in the day.
My favorite pseudo-scientific vampire "explanation". Unfortunately he
tried to turn an idea worthy of a book or two into a franchise.
--
Chris, reading newsgroups instead of helping his partners
c...@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu
Jennifer Reinhart
the fox wrote:
> however, has anyone else heard of Kim Newman? he's got three books
> out now in a series known as "Anno Dracula", a sort of alternate
> history where Dracula killed Harker, Jones, and Godalming instead of
> the other way around. (then everybody thinks it's chic to be vampire,
> and the world changed.)
>
Vampires, chic? Aww, that'll never happen. :-)
There's a good vampire book called The Madness Season, by C.S. Friedman. It's
sf. Quite good.
--Jenny Jo
* Dying is putting all your aches in one casket.
--
Sheri
Morgana <ro...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:3814e947....@news.panix.com...
<bite>
> May I also recommend Chelsea Quinn Yarbo's books about the ancient
> vampire, Count Saint Germain. Never a dull moment. :)
Yay! Another Yarbro fan! I've loved the Saint-Germain and Olivia books (but
I like the Saint-Germain ones better) since, oh, about 1978? Something like
that? I started with the first one, "Hotel Transylvania," and have continued
to read them ever since. I actually like that she tells the stories *out* of
chronilogical order. It's fun putting the historical pieces together.
I just got "Blood Roses" from the library the other day. AFAIK, it's her
most recent. If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.
Oh, and she also wrote a really good, dark gothic horror book called "A
Mortal Glamour," which I would recommend to any Yarbro fan who hasn't read
it.
Sheri
Wiley20658
Love St-Germain and company. Communion Blood is out and CQY was the author
guest at an AOL chat last week.
According to Yarbro's website, the first three St-Germain books [Hotel
Transylvania, The Palace, Blood Games] will be reprinted from Authors' Direct
Books over the next several years.
Sheri
Garry Francis <gifr...@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iG0R3.24$bp3....@nnrp3.clara.net...
>
<snip>
>animated
> creatures (golems anyone? Now that's Old Testament isn't it - or the
Hebrew
> 'version' (Talmudic? I really don't know sorry)
First of all, the Old Testament *is* in Hebrew (well, the original is,
anyway).
Here's a bit of what I know about the Golem:
It's a much later legend than the Talmud (which was compiled in the 2nd and
3rd centuries, C.E., iirc). It's a medieval legend about a creature created
by Rabbi Löw of Prague for the protection of persecuted Jews, supposedly
with God's blessing and as an instrument of God's will. But things go awry,
as we know. It's possible that the legend of the Golem prompted the idea
for Frankenstein.
There's a wonderful, modern version of the story in the book "Wandering
Stars: An Anthology of Jewish Fantasy and Science Fiction," which has
recently been reprinted. I got some of the above information from the
introduction to that one story. BTW, Harlan Ellison has a story in the
collection...I mention that because I know there are some Ellison fans here.
As another Golem side note, I thought the X-Files episode about one was done
very well. Nicely accurate in pretty much all respects.
Sorry...carry on...y'all were talking about demons and witchcraft and
Christianity and such (hmmm...I think there's a connection there, heh...) in
literature.
Sheri
Jennifer Reinhart
Sheri wrote:
> There's a wonderful, modern version of the story in the book "Wandering
> Stars: An Anthology of Jewish Fantasy and Science Fiction," which hasrecently
> been reprinted.
And a futuristic version in "He, She, and It," by..uh...Marge Piercey, I think.
I know I've mentioned this here before. It switches back and forth between this
post-apocalyptic android story and the rabbit Lowe story.
--Jenny Jo (with her stolen siggy)
* Y2KY: Allowing you to get 4 digits into your date instead of just two.
--
Jennifer Reinhart
Jennifer Reinhart wrote:
> Sheri wrote:
>
> > There's a wonderful, modern version of the story in the book "Wandering
> > Stars: An Anthology of Jewish Fantasy and Science Fiction," which hasrecently
> > been reprinted.
>
> And a futuristic version in "He, She, and It," by..uh...Marge Piercey, I think.
> I know I've mentioned this here before. It switches back and forth between this
> post-apocalyptic android story and the rabbit Lowe story.
>
Rabbi, damn it, rabbi! Pardon my fingers, they have minds of their own. And Low
with an umlaut (how the hell do you make umlauts in email anyway)?
--Jenny Jo
Wiley20658
>I like the Saint-Germain ones better) since, oh, about 1978? Something like
>that? I started with the first one, "Hotel Transylvania," and have continued
>to read them ever since. I actually like that she tells the stories *out* of
>chronilogical order. It's fun putting the historical pieces together.
>
>I just got "Blood Roses" from the library the other day. AFAIK, it's her
>most recent. If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.
>
>Oh, and she also wrote a really good, dark gothic horror book called "A
>Mortal Glamour," which I would recommend to any Yarbro fan who hasn't read
>it.
Yarbro's most recent St-Germain book is Communion Blood, published in
September. St-Germain is in 17th century Rome.
A Mortal Glamour is one of my favorite non-St-Germain books by CQY--really
scary!
Wiley
Wiley20658
Great vampire book! Dr. Weyland is a very unusual character. Charnas' play
based on the book is being performed off-off-Broadway in New York, December 1st
thru December 18 at a theater called Altered Stages. The play version is
called Vampire Dreams.
Hope someone will produce it somewhere TX so I can see it!
Wiley
Bala Menon
<19991026031220...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> re: Vampire Tapestry by Suzy McKee Charnas.
>
> Great vampire book! Dr. Weyland is a very unusual
> character. Charnas' play based on the book is being
> performed off-off-Broadway in New York, December 1st
> thru December 18 at a theater called Altered Stages.
> The play version is called Vampire Dreams.
Whoa ! I'd not heard of this; thanks for the tip.
> Hope someone will produce it somewhere TX so I can see it!
Well, since I actually am in the neighbourhood, I'll try to check
this out. Thanks again !
Karen McMurray
That would be Loew (add an "e" after the umlauted vowel).
-karen
--
klmcm...@home.com
Any language where the unassuming word 'fly' signifies an annoying
insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's
apparel is clearly asking to be mangled.
-- Bill Bryson, "The Mother Tongue"
the fox
><shrugs> I've seen HPL (in both letters, and literature) and Dereleth refer to
>Him as Cthulhu, Cthulu, and Ctulhu. (Did I forget that one too?) I'm telling
>you, it's all the bloody 'h's in there. There are other revisions out there,
>though, that have it all transferred to Cthulhu, and that is the current
>spelling new Mythos writers are using.
oh. in that case, i'll leave it as Cthulu. *grin*
>If you want to do a little summoning, I take no responsibility for misuse of
>the name, or use of a improperly spelled/pronounced name.
actually, i'm having to avert a summoning. but i needed the spelling
so i could get the conversation right. *grin*
thankfully, JAC (who wishes people just left it with one spelling)
the fox
>Jennifer Reinhart wrote:
>> Rabbi, damn it, rabbi! Pardon my fingers, they have minds of their own. And Low
>> with an umlaut (how the hell do you make umlauts in email anyway)?
>
>That would be Loew (add an "e" after the umlauted vowel).
or Löw, which makes the e unnecessary. (Alt + 148 on the number pad,
Jennifer. for most fonts, anyway.)
numerically, JAC (who got used to them for his own dastardly purposes)
Globalhead
As long as we are talking about vampire fiction I've heard good things about
Jeanie Kalogirdis' novels. They revolve around Dracula's family supposedly.
I haven't ventured to read them yet.
Larry --
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty place from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle.
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
-- William Shakespeare.
Jennifer Reinhart
the fox wrote:
> Karen McMurray <klmcm...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Jennifer Reinhart wrote:
>
> >> Rabbi, damn it, rabbi! Pardon my fingers, they have minds of their own. And Low
> >> with an umlaut (how the hell do you make umlauts in email anyway)?
> >
> >That would be Loew (add an "e" after the umlauted vowel).
>
> or Löw, which makes the e unnecessary. (Alt + 148 on the number pad,
> Jennifer. for most fonts, anyway.)
>
Test:Löw.
Oh! Cool.
Actually, I really need to find out a bunch of special character codes...is there a list
of them online or with the truetype files or something?
--Jenny Jo
* "We're here to celebrate our mutual interest in the ways and customs
of pre-1600 feudal Europe, and to bedeck ourselves in the heraldic
regalia of our fictional medieval personas, not to get mixed up in
politics."
--
Denise Rand
<snip...or maybe i should bite...>
>Jeanie Kalogirdis' novels. They revolve around Dracula's family supposedly.
>I haven't ventured to read them yet.
I just started reading them and they are quite good. I also read a good
Dracula based vampire book "The secret life of Laslo Count Dracula", IIRC.
I am going to have to look into some of the other books that were suggested.
:)
bye for now,
rouma (Denise)
who is still in a daze after IPEX
the fox
>the fox wrote:
>
>> or Löw, which makes the e unnecessary. (Alt + 148 on the number pad,
>> Jennifer. for most fonts, anyway.)
>
>Test:Löw.
>
>Oh! Cool.
you're welcome. *grin*
>Actually, I really need to find out a bunch of special character codes...is there a list
>of them online or with the truetype files or something?
um... Windows comes with a character map, but it uses a different
number system. what i learned in high school (taking BASIC) was a
thing to go through the loop and print all the characters. basically
(no pun ACTUALLY intended), ASCII codes go from 1 to 255. but 1-31
aren't printable. 32 is the space bar, and 255 is blank—but it's
still a character. you might just play around with them and find what
you're looking for. or you can ask me....
helpfully, JAC (who never seems to have anything ON topic to say)
-mz. shira-
>have his translations corrected)
Actually, all of your hebrew stuff WAS right. I've been studying hebrew for a
few years, like 4 or so... The only thing is: the way *I* have learned hebrew
(sephardic, the way they speak it in Israel) would pronounce "emeth" emet and
so on. Um - so I just wanted to let ya know that :)
*luv*
shira - mad poster and I've only been in this newsgroup for 20 minutes!!
WOOWOO!!!! (er-maybe that's an exaggeration [sp?]...)
**************************
Pop culture is for people
who don't read enough
-MarMar
Shira, Princess of Power
<a href="http://www.gurlpages.com/nolabel/sbstarlet">*lalala*</a>
<a href="mailto:sbst...@aol.com">sbst...@aol.com</a>
AIM: sbstarlet
Captain Average
Well, using the average of 8 words per line and 45 lines per page (in
the Shadows 4 anthology), times the 45 pages it runs, that would come
to approximately 13,800 words - which I believe is a bit long for the
short story category (and is just over 1/3 the length of the average
Shadow novel, for example).
"(I haven't heard of Shadows 4... what's that?)"
Shadows is a series of horror anthologies edited by "The award-winning
master of Horror" (to quote the cover of Shadows 4) - Charles L. Grant.
I don't know if it was an annual effort, or how many volumes there are
- I just have the mass-market edition of vol. 4 (1981) and the
hardcover of vol. 10 (1987). They are both excellent and I recommend
them highly - well worth the time required to badger every used
bookseller you know.
Captain Average, The Occasionally-Informed Superhero
"We're born, we grow old, we die. What kind of master plan is that?" -
Opus
Sheri
-mz. shira- <sbst...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991026174157...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
> >Reg(who makes no claims of Hebrew scholarship and would be pleased to
> >have his translations corrected)
> Actually, all of your hebrew stuff WAS right. I've been studying hebrew
for a
> few years, like 4 or so... The only thing is: the way *I* have learned
hebrew
> (sephardic, the way they speak it in Israel) would pronounce "emeth" emet
and
> so on. Um - so I just wanted to let ya know that :)
>
> *luv*
> shira - mad poster and I've only been in this newsgroup for 20 minutes!!
> WOOWOO!!!! (er-maybe that's an exaggeration [sp?]...)
Beat me to it, Shira! :-) I think the "h" added at the end is an
Anglicization anyway, because it's not pronounced even in Ashkenazic
Hebrew...as you know, there is no "th" sound as in the [English] word "the"
in Hebrew, and the "t" sound of the letter taf isn't aspirated. I just
checked...in Ashkenazic (Eastern European) Hebrew, it would be pronounced
"emes" anyway.
Welcome to the skerry, Shira, and by the way, *love* your name! Shira is
*my* Hebrew name too! :-)
Sheri
Sheri
Captain Average <captain.ave...@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:11f733ec...@usw-ex0101-004.remarq.com...
> "Yay! Another Yarbro fan!"
>
> Include me in. The thing that most impresses me with Yarbro's
> Saint-Germaine stories, is the way her writing style varies to reflect
> the eras she's writing about. On that note, have any of you read her
> Edwardian SG novella in Shadows 4: "The Spider Glass"? It's excellent.
Oh, isn't that just *wonderful*! Although I think it's more of a short
story, really. I have it in her collection, "The Saint-Germain Chronicles,"
which includes several excellent stories, and a very nice (implied)
resolution to his long-standing, erm, "issue" with Madelaine. :-) (I haven't
heard of Shadows 4...what's that?)
Probably the thing that most impresses me is the historical research she
puts into each book...you can really see and hear the places and times she's
written about. And I'm always somewhat amused by her consistent, detailed
descriptions of everyone's *clothing*! :-)
Sheri
Sheri
Jennifer Reinhart <deli...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote in message
news:38153577...@uclink4.berkeley.edu...
>
>
> Sheri wrote:
>
> > There's a wonderful, modern version of the story in the book "Wandering
> > Stars: An Anthology of Jewish Fantasy and Science Fiction," which
hasrecently
> > been reprinted.
>
> And a futuristic version in "He, She, and It," by..uh...Marge Piercey, I
think.
> I know I've mentioned this here before. It switches back and forth
between this
> post-apocalyptic android story and the rabbit Lowe story.
OK, bad joke time (JJ's slip made me think of it, and you can't "stop me if
you've heard it"...heeheehee):
There was a community of folks called Trids. Everything was wonderful,
except that to get water from their well, they had to climb a hill on top of
which was an ogre who took sadistic pleasure in kicking them back down after
they'd hiked all the way to to the top.
So one day they sent their rabbi to reason with the ogre. The rabbi said to
the ogre, "This has got to stop...we need our water, and we have the right
to draw it from the well in safety. But since you obviously delight in
causing harm to my people and will not desist, I offer myself, Mr. Ogre. If
you must continue this kicking, kick *me*, but leave the Trids alone."
To which the ogre replied, "Silly rabbi, kicks are for Trids."
Badabing, badabum. You may all groan now. :-)
Sheri
Karen McMurray
>
> Karen McMurray <klmcm...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Jennifer Reinhart wrote:
>
> >> Rabbi, damn it, rabbi! Pardon my fingers, they have minds of their own. And Low
> >> with an umlaut (how the hell do you make umlauts in email anyway)?
> >
> >That would be Loew (add an "e" after the umlauted vowel).
>
> Jennifer. for most fonts, anyway.)
>
The only problem is that the extended characters turn into a tidy little
pile of nonsense on many systems, so where they're avoidable, I avoid
'em. (And thanks to the Germans, there's a standard transliteration for
umlauts, etc., used in German.)
Sorcha
> Jennifer Reinhart <deli...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> >Actually, I really need to find out a bunch of special character
> >codes...is there a list of them online or with the truetype files
> >or something?
>
> um... Windows comes with a character map, but it uses a different
> number system. what i learned in high school (taking BASIC) was a
> thing to go through the loop and print all the characters. basically
> (no pun ACTUALLY intended), ASCII codes go from 1 to 255. but 1-31
> aren't printable. 32 is the space bar, and 255 is blank—but it's
> still a character. you might just play around with them and find what
> you're looking for. or you can ask me....
>
Start Menu, Programs, Accessories, and there you should have ze
Character Map, which has many and maifold uses, not least of which is
the ability to do this :Ž
Sorcha
--
Heisenberg may have slept here.
Elchonon Edelson
> And here's a bit more. The Golem is made from clay and
> animated by having the word "emeth" (meaning truth, if
> my knowledge of Hebrew is vaguely existent,) inscribed
> on its forehead. Unfortunately it grows at an alarming
> rate and is almost indestructible. The only way to turn
> it back to clay is to erase te first letter of the word,
> making it "meth" (in case you hadn't worked that out, )
> meaning death. Needless to say, the Golem is not neccesarily
> a willing participant in this process.
True, False, "Where'd you get THAT from?", False, True, True.
+> The Golem is made from clay.
True.
+> The Golem is animated by having the word "emeth" (Aleph, Mem, Tau)
+> inscribed on its forehead, and deanimated by having the first
+> letter erased.
Not necessarily. The Golem is animated by having a soul drawn
into it. According to what I know of the Prague Golem, which
is the most well-known Golem story, it was animated by Rabbi
Löw's use of mystical forces, the description I've seen included
having the image of a man drawn in the mud, and several people
walking around it seven times while saying potent mystical
formulae, and was deanimated by having the same people walk
around it seven times in the other direction, saying potent
mystical formulae. I don't remember if it was other formulae,
or an inversion of the ones used to animate it.
I don't know how the use of the words "emeth" and "meth" came
to be associated with the Golem, the only stories I know of
which involve that deal with reanimating a corpse to have it
identify its murderer. Maybe someone can point me to a reference.
+> it grows at an alarming rate.
Never heard of this. As far as I can tell, it is completely wrong.
--
Elchonon Edelson <e...@isoft.com>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing much has changed since we were here last. Well, it
is daytime now, and I'm not carrying a sack and a crowbar,
but apart from that it's pretty much the same.
Elchonon Edelson
[SNIP]
> Here's a bit of what I know about the Golem:
>
> It's a much later legend than the Talmud
Err, no. Thereis at least one story that I know of in the Talmud
which deals with a Golem.
> (which was compiled in the 2nd and
> 3rd centuries, C.E., iirc). It's a medieval legend about a
> creature created by Rabbi Löw of Prague for the protection
> of persecuted Jews, supposedly with God's blessing and as an
> instrument of God's will.
Yes, this is the most commonly known Golem story.
> But things go awry, as we know.
No, I don't know. The only story I know of regarding the Prague
Golem has it serve faithfully for a number of years, until it
is no longer needed, at which point it is decommissioned. There
are of course any number of pure fictions that use the Prague
Golem as a monster-figure, but then again, you'll find fanfic
on practically any popular legend.
the fox
>I don't know how the use of the words "emeth" and "meth" came
>to be associated with the Golem, the only stories I know of
>which involve that deal with reanimating a corpse to have it
>identify its murderer. Maybe someone can point me to a reference.
well... i know it was in an episode of the X-Files, but no one before
you questioned it, so i was wondering if Chris Carter didn't actually
do research.
conspiratorially, JAC (who's missed the past two seasons, dammit)
Globalhead
fox) wrote:
You didn't miss much last season. With the exception of a few episodes it
blew hamsters.
Larry --
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty place from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle.
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
-- William Shakespeare.
ICQ No. 37523426
Carolyn Hotchkiss
>
> Karen McMurray <klmcm...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Jennifer Reinhart wrote:
>
> >> Rabbi, damn it, rabbi! Pardon my fingers, they have minds of their own. And Low
> >> with an umlaut (how the hell do you make umlauts in email anyway)?
> >
> >That would be Loew (add an "e" after the umlauted vowel).
>
> or Löw, which makes the e unnecessary. (Alt + 148 on the number pad,
> Jennifer. for most fonts, anyway.)
Where do you get thoses things? Is there a list of all of them
somewhere?
Carolyn
Jennifer Reinhart
Sorcha wrote:
> the ability to do this :Þ
>
Dear god, I never even clicked on that before. Duh. I mean, what kind of a
linguistics student can't even type a thorn sign... :-Þ
--Jenny Jo
* Gratuitous passivity is delighted in by us.
--
culfin
the fox wrote in message <3815588d....@news.erols.com>...
I prefer to run like feck.
>
>thankfully, JAC (who wishes people just left it with one spelling)
Ah, but He has so many faces in so many cultures, all of them looking like a
crawfish getting eaten by a large squid...
And I think its the sound and the thought that count, anyway.
Oh, by the way, there is a Cuculiu St here in New Orleans! Just a
coincidence, I'm sure...
LPB culfin,
snapping off the latex after a hard day in the Lab.
Reg142
wrote:
> Reg142 wrote:
>
> +> The Golem is animated by having the word "emeth" (Aleph, Mem, Tau)
> +> inscribed on its forehead, and deanimated by having the first
> +> letter erased.
>
> Not necessarily. The Golem is animated by having a soul drawn
> into it. According to what I know of the Prague Golem, which
> is the most well-known Golem story, it was animated by Rabbi
> L=F6w's use of mystical forces, the description I've seen included
> having the image of a man drawn in the mud, and several people
> walking around it seven times while saying potent mystical
> formulae, and was deanimated by having the same people walk
> around it seven times in the other direction, saying potent
> mystical formulae. I don't remember if it was other formulae,
> or an inversion of the ones used to animate it.
I am not that familiar with the Prague story, but I suspect that this
might be an embellishment by the author. After all, you can't make it
look too easy or everyone will be trying it.
>
> I don't know how the use of the words "emeth" and "meth" came
> to be associated with the Golem, the only stories I know of
> which involve that deal with reanimating a corpse to have it
> identify its murderer. Maybe someone can point me to a reference.
I can't point you to a reference just now as I was relying on my
lecture notes from a comparative lit. unit I took in my salad days. I
will do my best to hunt down the references for you.
I am fairly confident that I'm correct in this though. The Golem story
is about archetypes and the creature formed from clay animated by the
Word is the traditional archetype for creating life. If my research
reveals otherwise I'll post a correction.
>
> +> it grows at an alarming rate.
>
> Never heard of this. As far as I can tell, it is completely wrong.
It is another archetype. The use of power has cosequences and requires
caution. The act of creating life is normally the exclusive to the
Almighty and any attempt to do so by man must be imperfect and
dangerous. It's that hubris thing again.
I will look into this further though. I don't like providing inaccurate
information.
Reg
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
Rev. NightWalker
> Sadly.
>
> Not meaning to trivialise the affair, but there was a recent episode of
> Buffy the Vampire Slayer (recent in the UK anyway) called Gingerbread which
> nicely satirised the whole parental hysteria and fear of witch-craft thing
> very nicely indeed. It also played around with mythology in a pleasing way.
> I enjoyed it, anyway.
I'm not at all a fan of Buffy, but I have heard from multiple sources about
that particular episode. I've also heard (and seen in public) that
(thankfully) kids/teenagers/etc. are standing up for what they want to believe
in, wear, get pierced, etc.
Recently (at a local mall), I watched a spectacular screaming match between a
young and cute 17ish, well-endowed, shredded jeans, multi-piercings, and an
"N'Tomb N'Sync" t-shirt girl (with the greatest looking electric blue 3'
mohawk), and her pseudo-hip, overtired looking 'but still wants to look like a
model' mother in her Gap clothes and Feria haircolor. It appeared that the
girl was going to buy a pair of blue Docs (with her *own* money) to match her
hair, and the mother was against it due to the 'connotations' Doc Marten shoes
have. It was wonderful. You have to enjoy public displays of Chaos and
Disorder.
Of course, Punk is long dead anyway (different thread for that, and don't
start with bands like NoFX and Rancid)...but it was nice to see that some
people are still rebellious openly, rather than just wearing odd clothes and
using hip new slogans and mottoes in the privacy of their own bedroom.
Again...sorry...wrong meeting. :)
--
* I love defenseless animals.
Especially in a good gravy.
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-
Iain Clark
Denise Rand <ro...@mail.starquest.net> wrote in message
news:cyoR3.804$7q2....@news.rdc2.occa.home.com...
> Globalhead wrote in message
>
> <snip...or maybe i should bite...>
>
> >Jeanie Kalogirdis' novels. They revolve around Dracula's family
supposedly.
> >I haven't ventured to read them yet.
>
>
> I just started reading them and they are quite good. I also read a good
> Dracula based vampire book "The secret life of Laslo Count Dracula", IIRC.
> I am going to have to look into some of the other books that were
suggested.
> :)
Barbara Hambly (of Sandman: Book of Dreams fame) has written a couple of
good Vampire novels: "Those Who Hunt the Night" ('Immortal Blood' in the
UK) and "Travelling with the Dead."
They're not Hambly's best, but they're her usual genre-blurring blend of
fantasy, horror and detective fiction with a hint of SF. Well worth a look.
Iain
--
'She says, "It's only in my head."
She says, "Shhh....I know it's only in my head."'
Iain Clark
Rev. NightWalker <night...@nightwalker.net> wrote in message
news:8_KQ3.110$z4.1...@typhoon-la.pbi.net...
> the fox wrote:
> > maldi...@aol.com (Maldiction) wrote:
> >
> > >>I can only put this down to excessive religious paranoia re anything
> > >>connected (however remotely) with 'magic' and 'witchcraft'.
> > >
> > >Actually I think they've admitted that's the whole reason for the
attacks,
> the
> > >boy is training to be a witch and they think this'll make their kids
want
> to be
> > >witches.
> >
> > i... don't think so. this is actually the first i've heard of the
> > series being banned.
> >
> > he's not training to be a witch. he's training to be a wizard. the
> > average person, given the two words, would probably say the only
> > difference is the gender, but they'd also say something like "can't
> > explain it, but i know there's a difference."
>
> Unfortunately, it's both. The majority of the outrage is a toss up between
the
> 'violence and horror' in it (they say it's too much for a childrens-style
> book), and the 'false spirituality through magic' angle. To the offended
> people, pulling rabbits out of hats is just tricks...casting fireballs at
your
> enemies is unholy power that stems from the Heart of Satan, whether you're
a
> wizard, a warlock, a witch, or a wimp.
>
> It's just a group of people in fear, because they don't want thier kids to
> have imaginations.
Sadly.
Not meaning to trivialise the affair, but there was a recent episode of
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (recent in the UK anyway) called Gingerbread which
nicely satirised the whole parental hysteria and fear of witch-craft thing
very nicely indeed. It also played around with mythology in a pleasing way.
I enjoyed it, anyway.
Iain
Globalhead
<night...@nightwalker.net> wrote:
>
>Recently (at a local mall), I watched a spectacular screaming match between a
>young and cute 17ish, well-endowed, shredded jeans, multi-piercings, and an
>"N'Tomb N'Sync" t-shirt girl (with the greatest looking electric blue 3'
>mohawk), and her pseudo-hip, overtired looking 'but still wants to look like a
>model' mother in her Gap clothes and Feria haircolor. It appeared that the
>girl was going to buy a pair of blue Docs (with her *own* money) to match her
>hair, and the mother was against it due to the 'connotations' Doc Marten shoes
>have. It was wonderful.
Oh, dear, I must be the mother <snippage> Antichrist then.
<looks at his 8 eyelet black Docs he wore all across Burning Man and then
looks at his black 20 eyelet Docs with the smooth finish.>
Ah, eternal damnation is a small price to pay for style. ;-)
Larry, who has a thing for Docs.
Karen McMurray
>
> Iain Clark wrote:
> > Sadly.
> >
> > Not meaning to trivialise the affair, but there was a recent episode of
> > Buffy the Vampire Slayer (recent in the UK anyway) called Gingerbread which
> > nicely satirised the whole parental hysteria and fear of witch-craft thing
> > very nicely indeed. It also played around with mythology in a pleasing way.
> > I enjoyed it, anyway.
>
> that particular episode. I've also heard (and seen in public) that
> (thankfully) kids/teenagers/etc. are standing up for what they want to believe
> in, wear, get pierced, etc.
>
> young and cute 17ish, well-endowed, shredded jeans, multi-piercings, and an
> "N'Tomb N'Sync" t-shirt girl (with the greatest looking electric blue 3'
> mohawk), and her pseudo-hip, overtired looking 'but still wants to look like a
> model' mother in her Gap clothes and Feria haircolor. It appeared that the
> girl was going to buy a pair of blue Docs (with her *own* money) to match her
> hair, and the mother was against it due to the 'connotations' Doc Marten shoes
> Disorder.
On the other end of the scale, I once overheard a debate between
perfectly ordinary-looking guy of about 15 and his perfectly
ordinary-looking boomer mother in the haircolour aisle. The debate, of
course, was over whether the son could dye his hair. When she managed to
trot out the "There's nothing wrong with your natural colour" line, it
was all I could do to not turn around and say to the son, "Remember that
line."
(Sort of wish I had, actually, except I didn't much feel like having a
screaming match with a complete stranger on that particular day.)
Rev. NightWalker
> Oh, dear, I must be the mother <snippage> Antichrist then.
Sorry...that position has been filled. <grins>
> <looks at his 8 eyelet black Docs he wore all across Burning Man and then
> looks at his black 20 eyelet Docs with the smooth finish.>
I've got a pair of black, matte-finish knee-highs, and a pair of bright yellow
ones around here somewhere. One time, I purposely bought red laces for my
knees...just to freak the hell out of people. I'm usually wearing a pair of 6
eye/4 clip CAT workboots, in black these days...they not only have a steel toe
and heel, but they've got a steel plate between the treads and the
boot-base...'to prevent against nails and other objects', etc. Damn things
weigh a ton...but I'll do some damage if need be.
Do you know how damn annoying it is to try and find size 14 Docs, sometimes?
> Ah, eternal damnation is a small price to pay for style. ;-)
If you're going to sow the seeds of Chaos and Disorder...you've got to do it
in style. It's the only way to go.
--
* Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.
-=- Rev. NightWalker -=-