Gold Club Concerns
LAJ
purchased 'lifetime memberships' perhaps we all should have asked 'in
who's lifetime?' I purchased my membership in good faith. I believe
that the fan club has an obligation to me. My Gold Club membership
fee bought that many years ago.
I haven't received anything from the fan club since the new management
began. This does not disturb me. Information is easily downloaded,
copied, cut, and pasted from Internet 24/7.
What disturbs me, as I understand the issue, is that the Gold Club
wasn't considered to be part of the 'official' fan organization after
the new management took control. I can only speak for myself in
saying that I wish the new management had been honest with me at the
time their control began.
In my opinion -- and I understand that my opinion and .02 won't buy me
a breakfast bagel at McDonald's -- we, as Gold Club members do deserve
a bit more consideration than we've currently received. To be given
no options after we've 'paid our dues', literally, sends the message
that the support that we've shown Michael through the years is no
longer important. What a sad thing.
Just a fan,
Lu Ann
majc...@webtv.net
I couldn't have said it better myself, Lu Ann, and I agree
wholeheartedly.
Margaret/TX
Original message:
Lori
twice...but I was very disappointed when I read Lu Ann's post and then
visited the official web site.
It had to be at least 10 years ago that I purchased my Gold Club
membership. At that time the $50.00 cost was quite stiff for our
family...raising two children with just my husband's income. The tour
date information and the benefit of preferred concert seating (no
hour-long, long distance phone calls to a venue trying to come up with a
good seat) were my main reasons for joining. At the time, my friends
and I were trying to hit every concert on the east coast and not bust
the household budgets.
It could be argued that I have saved the cost of my membership over the
years...in both time and money. However, "lifetime" means "Continuing
for a lifetime; lifelong." (The American Heritage Dictionary) just as
"fan" is defined "An ardent devotee; an enthusiast." (same source). And
I will remain the latter for a lifetime.
My concert attendance has dwindled over the years...but not my enjoyment
of Michael and his music. I am looking forward to seeing him in person
at the Turning Stone Casino, NY at the end of September. This is a
great venue ( last year's concert there was spectacular) and I recommend
that anyone who can still get a seat attend!
Guess I had better e-mail my Gold Club card holding friends in Florida
and Ohio and see what they have to say.
Thanks for the info...
Lori
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Lori Mickey
Gold Club, except for the one response. I contacted the fan club management,
asking about at least a discount on membership for Gold Club members. I was
basically told that it would be unfair to those who paid for Platinum Club
memberships. Well, I confess I joined the club, because I want to support
Michael and his music. But seeing this post got me thinking. It is UNFAIR to
purchase something that is promoted as being a lifetime's investment.
Also, it is not as though the Gold membership was free. I wonder how many
current Platinum Club members are former Gold Club members? The reason I ask
this is, that to my thinking those who purchased Gold Club memberships would
be the most loyal and supportive fans, willing to make a sizeable investment
in Michael. To say that it is unfair to those who were not Gold Club members
gives the impression that they want to cater to new members. I feel there
are other ways they could have handled this: many organizations of this type
offer different levels of membership (for example, a "basic", followed by
other levels. In this case, they could have allowed Gold Club members AT
LEAST accesss to members area online and preferred tickets, thus giving us
SOMETHING. Those who chose could, of course, still participate in the
Platinum Club and get the extras. Bottom line is, even though there is new
management, a goodwill gesture would have been nice. As I said, I joined the
club, but whether I renew or not is in question. I want with all my heart to
support Michael, and always will. But his fan club people should know that
the way to attract new fans is not to alienate the old ones.
That is my two cents, and I will now step off my soapbox. I would be
interested, though, in what others think...
Linda Gallo
will Lori! I've been fighting this "battle" for years. I was given my
Gold Club Membership as a birthday gift from my daughter and needless to
say, I cherish it - still do, even though it's "defunct" and no longer
worth the paper my card is written on. I would very much like to join
the "new" Platinum Club. The new membership kit appears very "enticing"
to say the least. However, I am inclined to agree with my fellow Bolton
Buddies in some respects on the following grounds:
1) a promise is a promise is a promise...if a membership is for a
"lifetime" perhaps the time to clarify whose lifetime they were
referring to would have been at the time Gold Club members paid their
dues. If the disclaimer had been put in, to wit "for the lifetime of
the Gold Club - not the member" we would not have any cause to complain.
However, such was not the case. I was inclined to believe, as were
other GC members, that the "lifetime" in question was that of the member
not the club. A possible solution might be to give the GC members a
DISCOUNTED Platinum Club membership - at least for one year. Many of us
are in dire financial straights, especially since 911. We are more in
need of the Maestro's music now than ever before!!! This is not the
time to close those "arms of love" around the "select few" and wall out
the devoted many. I also agree that former GC members should not be
denied access to the "secret site" (this is a buggaboo with me - always
has been. As far as I'm concerned, we're all in this together and we
all deserve access to the good news about Michael Bolton regardless of
Club status. This kind of marketing not only deters members, it divides
the fan base. Such has always been my contention, and my fears are now
being borne out in fact - a loss in membership).
2) The Platinum Club should have been subordinate to the Gold Club not
vice versa. I understand what management was trying to do - attract a
younger new audience (and so went awry their PR attempts at turning our
Saint into a Sinner towards that very end!) What they failed to take
into consideration is that the GC members have "new younger" offspring -
many of whom have accompanied us to concerts and been very favorably
impressed! We've also brought in "non-believers" who may to this day
not be fan club members but who attend more concerts than many of us,
particularly if they are fortunate enough to live on the East Coast
where most of the concerts have been taking place over the past several
years. We southwesterners hadn't gotten to see him in eons - literally
years! Our GC memberships were virtually worthless ticketwise. I
suspect that many of our international fans could claim the same
misfortune.
3) New management notwithstanding, it is simply good business sense NOT
to alienate ANY fans - new, former, young, old, or what have you. There
should be no "catering" or pandering to special interest groups - this
isn't a political arena! As one fan said, we're a "FAN CLUB" and we
deserve all the rights and privileges that all fans enjoy - access to
their "idol." Such an attitude of exclusivism leads fans into being
sucked into a tabloid mentality where they become reliant upon getting
their info about their fave celeb from the trash heap instead of from
the source. That old ploy - "bad news is better than no news" is old
news!
4) Why should Michael Bolton have to suffer such a loss of fans? He
doesn't deserve that! I've said it before and it bears repeating - if
he's looking for a "new image," he'd best begin by replacing the "old
guard" that have cost him dearly by dividing his fans - and clubs - into
two camps - old and new. "In unity there is strength" and the best way
to unify a group of people is not to set them against each other but to
invite them to join together not by discouraging, but by encouraging,
them. When I learned that the On-Line Updates would no longer be
available to GC members, I was discouraged. I was a part of that "baby"
since it was born and now I'm told I'll have to pay a yearly membership
fee to enjoy something that had hitherto been free for all fans to
enjoy. The "powers that be" need to learn a few lessons in "lost
leaders." sometimes you have to give up a little profit up-front to
enjoy larger profits later on in better concert attendance. The fans'
bucks will only stretch so far, and the way it stands they are going to
have to stop at yearly membership dues for many fans. No news is not
going to result in good news at the box office!!! I think a good
"re-thinking" of the matter is in order for "management" - new and old.
It simly isn't good business practice. "By their fruits you will
know them..." Sour grapes don't make for fine wine!!! For that matter
they don't make for hefty box office receipts either! <LOL> It seems at
odds that a man so dedicated to the causes of women and children at risk
would have a fan club management that caters more to the rich and famous
than those most in need of his healing presence. It's beginning to
appear that he's doing more charity benefits than concerts! And our
memberships - Gold or Platinum Club - isn't going to help us in that
regard. They've been slowly but surely widening the gap between star
and fans over the years and this seems to be the last straw - the one
that breaks the hump of the camel that's been traversing the desert of
doom and gloom over these last few years.
There is no denying the talent, the charm, the love that this man
exudes and pours forth with such depth. And there is no denying the
many people who will always ride the coattails of such shining stars by
being on the "inside" looking out. They can either propel him onwards
and upwards or plunge him into public oblivion. It has always been the
fan base that has provided him with a solid foundation upon which to
build and build he has! Bolton Land is quite a kingdom!!! I will
continue to love and support him in every way I can but that will never
be dependent upon whether or not I can afford membership in his fan
club. The only Voice I hear is the One - The Voice - singing to my
heart of hearts and it ain't singing "Steel Bars wrapped all around
me...I've been [their] prisoner since the day [they] found me..."
instead I hear him singing "I promise you...yes, I promise to love you
for all my life..." What's the song other fans hear him singing these
days? "Love conquers all things" and I do believe that it will conquer
this "problem" too!!! Ya gotta admit, the Maestro knows what really
matters! Now if he could just convince "his people" that "you ain't got
nothin' if you ain't got love..." and the support of your fans! ; ) <3
Linda
Marty M555
<bolt...@hotmail.com> writes:
>I was disappointed that no one addressed the poster who wrote concerning the
>Gold Club, except for the one response. I contacted the fan club management,
>asking about at least a discount on membership for Gold Club members. I was
>basically told that it would be unfair to those who paid for Platinum Club
>memberships. Well, I confess I joined the club, because I want to support
>Michael and his music. But seeing this post got me thinking. It is UNFAIR to
>purchase something that is promoted as being a lifetime's investment.
Unfortunately, I believe that when something is for "lifetime" it is the
lifetime of both parties. Fan Emporium, the entity with whom we made our
contract, went out of business, what, three years ago? I've belonged to other
things that were "lifetime" - a local video store, - you rent 7 movies, you get
the 8th for free - for LIFE!!! Unfortunately, they went out of business in
about a year. I could mention other things, but you get the picture. The good
news is, though FE went out of business 3 years ago, Fans Rule, who bought them
out, and then Fan Factory, the current business, continued the Gold Club
benefit of the tickets for 3 years. Think of it. Gold Club members were able to
attend the concerts on the Symphony Tour in 2001, the OAWLY tour in 2002, and
buy tickets to all but 3 or 4 venues for the 2003 concerts (few and localized
though they may be!!!) with companies who didn't offer the club, received NO
compensation whatsoever for the service. Really, they could have ended it the
day FE ceased to exist.
>Also, it is not as though the Gold membership was free. I wonder how many
>current Platinum Club members are former Gold Club members?
I was a Michael Bolton Fan Club member originally; joined the Gold Club as soon
as it came out; joined the Platinum Club when it began in 1997.
>The reason I ask
>this is, that to my thinking those who purchased Gold Club memberships would
>be the most loyal and supportive fans, willing to make a sizeable investment
>in Michael. To say that it is unfair to those who were not Gold Club members
>gives the impression that they want to cater to new members. I feel there
>are other ways they could have handled this: many organizations of this type
>offer different levels of membership (for example, a "basic", followed by
>other levels. In this case, they could have allowed Gold Club members AT
>LEAST accesss to members area online and preferred tickets, thus giving us
>SOMETHING.
Lori, I first thought the same thing. After all, as others have stated (over on
AOL this issue has been HOT, let me tell you! <ggg> ), "the fan seating is
being arranged anyway; the tickets are there." Then I started to think about it
- started to get selfish, in a way, I guess you could put it. After all it DOES
cost $$$ for Fan Factoryto maintain the membership databases, pay the phone
bills to the venues, salaries, etc., and the only way the money comes in is
through fan club dues. Imagine this scenario (and I'm going to be lazy and say
"I" and "me" instead of typing out "PC members" all the time):
Say there are X number of tickets to a venue that is pretty popular, and since
the venues are often smaller these days, the number of seats they're willing to
offer the fan club are fewer, as well. Anyway, say this venue is in an area of
the country where there are LOTS of fans, many GC members. The fan club has
decided to continue to let them have their two fan seats, and the PC members
can have 4. But……… there are far more fans than there are seats, and
those seats disappear before I, a PC member, am able to get mine. Many of the
seats went to GC members.
Hey, wait a minute! I'm as generous as the next person, but that really isn't
fair at all. After all, had I not joined the PC & paid my membership, where
would the money come from to get the fan seats set up? And what on earth would
be the incentive for me to renew with the PC in this case? If this happened
very often, what PC member would EVER renew? Do I really want to continue to
pay for a perk that I don't get to use, only to benefit others who are more
than willing to take advantage of my generosity? And if the PC members got to
the point where they all got sick of it….. there would be no PC at all; no
fan club; NO SEATS for anyone. We would all be losers then, truly.
And……. the same goes for the web site. If there's no money coming in, they
can't pay for the site, the webmaster, etc. There would be no website to see,
for anyone.
>Those who chose could, of course, still participate in the
>Platinum Club and get the extras. Bottom line is, even though there is new
>management, a goodwill gesture would have been nice.
You know, I think they DID do a goodwill gesture, they just didn't say so.
(these folks seem friendly enough, but they don't seem to communicate very
well, even when it's in their own best interests to do so.) They could have cut
off the GC the second they took over. Instead, as I said earlier, they let it
go on so that folks could get fan club seats to MOST of this year's tour. I
really don't know exactly when Fan Factory took over from Fans Rule, so I don't
know if these guys were responsible for last year's seating or not. Either way,
probably it would have been better PR for them to say a few months ago, "We are
ending the GC, but as a final thanks to GC members, we will continue to make GC
tickets available until July 1st …….." So instead of being thankful they
gave us a break, we're mad that they're taking it away from us. Half empty /
half full……….
>As I said, I joined the
>club, but whether I renew or not is in question. I want with all my heart to
>support Michael, and always will.
Like many others, I wish the GC didn't have to end. I wish that Fan Emporium
were still here - it always felt like family, and I miss that. But none of us
live on air, and I don't think the folks from FF are particularly getting rich
from this endeavor.
As for Michel - he has me, heart and soul. I will support him always, in
whatever form the fan club takes, or doesn't take. But I will say that I hope
that Fan Factory can make a go of this, because even though I don't get to too
many concerts (last year was a record - and probably lifetime - high of three!)
I really, really appreciate that fan seating! I would hate for it all to
collapse entirely. They may be charging for the service, but at least they're
providing goods for the fee they charge. My daughter recently joined a fan club
ONLY so she could get fan club seats for a very popular artist. She paid $25 to
join, the tickets were bought directly from the fan club, and her seats were in
the 8th row from the very back, top row - straight in front of the stage - in a
14,000 seat venue. With binoculars she couldn't see anything. And when she sent
an e-mail to ask a simple question (not a complaint - long before she even knew
where her seats were), she never did get an answer, even though she e-mailed
two more times. To say they've lost her is pretty obvious!
>That is my two cents, and I will now step off my soapbox. I would be
interested, >though, in what others think...
Shall we jump off our soapboxes together? LOL!!! I always go on way, way too
long..... Sorry!
Marty
WA
Linda Gallo
instead of adding the Platinum Club thus building upon an already
established fan base. They could have suggested the possibility of
yearly dues while increasing the perks enough to keep the fans
interested. When the clubs were turned over to new management, they
were accepted "AS IS." At that point in time, club management should
have put out feelers as to what the fans were willing to sacrifice
before slipping in the "oh, by the way, we're cancelling the Gold Club -
you have until July 1st to get your tickets for the East Coast concerts
that are scheduled for September-October..." Tsk, tsk...not a wise move
on their part. They should have sent each and every Gold Club member
snail mail notification with options for continuing their membership.
The matter was not handled professionally.
As to websites costing money - it's more an investment of time
than money. There are enough free hosting sites on-line to accomodate
rudimentary websites. I suspect that many of these larger businesses
have their own servers, in which case they would be charging clients
monthly usage fees. In that way they could reasonably absorb some of
the costs of their "lost leaders" OR they could seize the opportunity to
turn this lemon into lemonade by reinstating the Gold Club membership
privileges without some of the perks but certainly with access to the
news about Michael Bolton and upcoming concert info. What cost is there
involved in giving GC members a secret password to the Fan Club "secret"
site? And what harm could come from all of the fans being alerted to
upcoming events and news flashes? Can the need for exclusivity override
the more obvious need for increasing the fan base? To deprive ANY of the
fans of information about their hero is to cost the star a profit and
the fans a chance to be fans! You don't really need a fan club card to
be a fan; all that's required is some good old fashioned enthusiasm!
They'd best take a look at how big business handles its paying/paid
customers - certainly not with such disdain as has been exhibited in
this matter. Most GC members still have no idea that their "lifetime
membership" has died a swift death without so much as the last rights
being delivered! <VBG>
I don't remember GC members complaining about the steep cost of
their lifetime membership or the fact that people who didn't join were
not entitled to enjoy all the info. The comaradarie gleaned from just
the internet boards, sites, chat rooms, not to mention the wonderful get
togethers that some of the BB's organized, came with the price tag of
friendship not greed. There was no talk then about who was entitled
to what because so-and-so could afford it while other so-and-sos could
not. It wasn't about money then - and it really isn't about money now.
It was about a shared love - Michael Bolton. That common bond unites
what mammon is intent upon destroying. Many fan clubs are begun and run
from fans' home computers with nothing more than a sincere desire to get
the good news out to other fans about a man we all admire. If a
newsletter needs funding, then charge for it - a small yearly fee from
each fan should suffice to keep the presses rolling. If the best seats
in the house are desired, there are scalpers everywhere willing to sell
them - at a price. For that matter, the radio stations often have
contests for free seats - AND backstage passes. There are other ways
and means for the fans to acquire good seating, and other ways for the
fan club to make money more creatively without prevailing upon the
pocketbooks of its members. Unless management is willing to hear the
fans out, they are going to be the losers in the long run. Sadly, it
will cost the Maestro, too. I reiterate - he doesn't deserve that. He
deserves management that understands that the fans are what keep the man
going - not management. Management is expendable; fans are not. <3 Linda
Meri
I don't get over to read this newsgroup that often, but I wanted to
make a few comments. I too am sorry you feel disappointed and let down
about the demise of the Gold Club. I can understand it and to a
certain extent I agree with what you said.
That said, as a member of the Gold Club I really feel I got my monies
worth throughout the existence of the club. I had a membership for the
lifetime of the club and I recieved quite a few wondeful seats at
concerts due to my membership. If I had to pay ticket brokers for the
same seats I would have spent hundreds of dollars instead of just $50.
I knew when they offered the club that it wouldn't last forever. I
knew that there was no way the fan club could last for a long time
without membership dues. And with the advent of the Platinum Club I
knew the Gold Club's days were numbered.
Am I upset about it? No, I am not. It's not like Fan Emporium, Fans
Rule or Fan Factory continued to take money for the club and then
suddenly abandoned it. They haven't accepted new members into the club
for at least several years and yet they have continued to offer
services to the members.
It DOES cost money to manage the Gold Club and with no money coming
in, they obviously had to make a difficult decision. Do I think they
could have handled it better? Maybe. But I think they really are
trying.
Someone mentioned using free websites as a way to save money. Most
free sites don't have nearly enough space to hold all that needs to be
on a good fan club website, and even then you need someone to run the
site and why should that person not be paid. Others have said that
the tickets are being arranged anyway, so why not just offer some to
the Gold Club, well that too costs money. No business can run without
making money.
I truly thingk that if you give the Platinum Club a chance you'll be
pleased with what they have to offer. The new membership kit is
top-notch and very well done and so far all of the service I've
recieved from buying tickets for this tour has been wonderful.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Peace,
Meri
Linda Gallo
along the lines of non-profit organizations whose "business" it is to
disseminate positive information about the star? If the purpose is to
make money, then hefty dues/fees are in order. If the purpose is to
generate a stronger fan base, then volunteers are in order. Perhaps a
clarification of the goals/purposes of the fan club would help.
Operating expenses notwithstanding, and both have them, the way in which
funds are raised is also an important consideration. The ability, and
hence the choice to join/not join, should not cost the fans access to
any news about the star nor should it cost the star any loss of fan
support. From what I'm gleaning, it is the increasing exclusivity that
is raising the most concern. As for getting one's "money's worth," I
can't say that it has been the fan club that has done that for me; it's
been Michael Bolton who has made being a fan a thoroughly delightful and
worthwhile experience. I'm certain he'll continue to share his
inimitable talents with ALL the fans regardless of whether or not they
can afford to, or choose to, belong to his fan club. BTW my 19 year old
has had an extremely successful Star Wars fan site since he was 12 years
old. It generates a considerable amount of traffic; it costs us the
same monthly fee to keep it running as it does to maintain our high
speed services. As for maintenance; if he can manage it with his
grueling work schedule, I'm certain there are fans out there who have
the time to volunteer their services to assist. Never underestimate the
value of a volunteer!!! I do believe that is how the Fan Emporium
began did it not? Growth calls for more organization, not necessarily
more money. With a little business savvy, one can organize volunteers
as easily as paid assistants. <3 Linda
Meri
just as there are all types of businesses. Even "non-profit"
businesses need to earn some sort of money to survive, whether it be
through donations, fundraisers or whatever. The fact is that Fan
Factory is a for profit business which has the goal of supporting
Michael Bolton's career as well as pleasing its consumers, the fans.
No one said there are no volunteers at the fan club. Many fans send in
pictures and articles for the Bolton Bulletin as well as doing other
things, such as passing out flyers at shows etc. I'm sure Fan Factory
will take whatever help fans offer.
> The ability, and hence the choice to join/not join, should not cost the fans access to any news about the star nor should it cost the star any loss of fan
> support. From what I'm gleaning, it is the increasing exclusivity that
> is raising the most concern.
It doesn't, there is nothing to stop fans from searching the Internet,
looking through magazines, going to concerts etc. even if they are not
or cannot be a member of the fan club for some reason. Any time there
is a "club" members are given perks which non-members are not given.
For example, the VFW in my hometown supplies medical services and
equipment to dues paying members and other veterans. Non-members and
non-veterans are not able to receive those services. If you are a
member of a country club you can use the grounds and facilities at the
club and non-members can't. What's wrong with that?
>As for getting one's "money's worth," I > can't say that it has been
the fan club that has done that for me; it's > been Michael Bolton who
has made being a fan a thoroughly delightful and > worthwhile
experience.
But that's not what was being discussed.
> Never underestimate the value of a volunteer!!! I do believe that is how the Fan Emporium began did it not?
Actually, I believe Michael asked Joyce to run the fan club and if I'm
not mistaken, she was paid from the beginning.
Meri
Linda Gallo
Meri wrote:
> To answer your question, I'm sure there are all types of fan clubs,
> just as there are all types of businesses. Even "non-profit"
> businesses need to earn some sort of money to survive, whether it be
> through donations, fundraisers or whatever. The fact is that Fan
> Factory is a for profit business which has the goal of supporting
> Michael Bolton's career as well as pleasing its consumers, the fans.
>
And Linda responds:
Is that goal a publicly acknowledged goal or an assumed one? If it's to
"support Michael Bolton's career," how is it accomplishing that goal to
lose fans in the process and how is it pleasing its "consumers" (to wit,
the fans) by eliminating a club whose members have paid "lifetime" dues?
For profit businesses renegotiate, they don't reneg.
> No one said there are no volunteers at the fan club. Many fans send
> in pictures and articles for the Bolton Bulletin as well as doing
> other things, such as passing out flyers at shows etc. I'm sure Fan
> Factory will take whatever help fans offer.
>
All of which would appear to obviate the need for a fan club. As for
passing out flyers at shows, one can slip the stage hands a few
backstage passes and have them leave the flyers on the seats. I'm sure
Fan Factory will take whatever help the fans offer, too. But then "Why
buy the cow when you can have the milk for free?" <VBG>
>
>> The ability, and hence the choice to join/not join, should not cost
>> the fans access to any news about the star nor should it cost the
>> star any loss of fan support. From what I'm gleaning, it is the
>> increasing exclusivity that is raising the most concern.
>
> It doesn't, there is nothing to stop fans from searching the
> Internet, looking through magazines, going to concerts etc. even if
> they are not or cannot be a member of the fan club for some reason.
> Any time there is a "club" members are given perks which non-members
> are not given. For example, the VFW in my hometown supplies medical
> services and equipment to dues paying members and other veterans.
> Non-members and non-veterans are not able to receive those services.
> If you are a member of a country club you can use the grounds and
> facilities at the club and non-members can't. What's wrong with that?
>
Perhaps what might deter fans from doing any/all of the above might be a
lack of motivation. As regards the VFW, the vets paid their dues by
risking their lives. Hopefully the Fan Factory is not proposing that
fans do the same in order to gain a few "perks." There is a qualitative
difference between clubs with memberships open to the public at large
and those open to a specific membership that must meet certain criteria
in order to become members. There are certain clubs in which members
must be "sponsored" by other members. This is a fan club at issue, not
a country club. A country club's success doesn't rise or fall with the
tide of public opinion. A celebrity's popularity does and fan clubs are
vehicles for promoting that popularity - not cartes blanches for a
specific group of individuals to enjoy country club privileges. Perhaps
some would like the fan club to operate more as a country club with
the same exclusivity? Then I suggest forming "The Michael Bolton
Country Club." I'd be amused to see how the membership would go about
divying him up so the members could enjoy his perks. <LOL>
>
>> As for getting one's "money's worth," I can't say that it has
>> been the fan club that has done that for me; it's been Michael Bolton
>> who has made being a fan a thoroughly delightful and worthwhile
>> experience.
>
> But that's not what was being discussed.
>
As a matter of fact, Michael Bolton is the STAR that the fans join the
club for in the first place. That is indeed THE issue being discussed.
If "Fan Factory is a for profit business which has the goal of
supporting Michael Bolton's career..." then that is the central focus of
the discussion. How can one justify supporting his career by pulling
the foundations of a fan base out from under it? If the nature of the
discussion is the nature and kind of club the Fan Factory represents, I
do believe that "fan club" is the best description and that will take us
right back to Square 1 - Michael Bolton - the reason for the fan club.
>
>> Never underestimate the value of a volunteer!!! I do believe
>> that is how the Fan Emporium began did it not?
>
> Actually, I believe Michael asked Joyce to run the fan club and if
> I'm not mistaken, she was paid from the beginning.
>
The meat and bones of any fan club is the fan base. The more fans one
has volunteering what some have to pay for augurs for the financial well
being of the club does it not? It follows, ipso facto, that the more
volunteers, the less money required to run the club. It was my
understanding from what was said both on the AOL board and this
newsgroup that at least some originators of the club were not on the
payroll for quite a while and that they volunteered their time and
energies. It is a well known fact that "teamwork" unites. The best way
to handle "splinter groups" is to find a way to accomodate them lest
they form their own "exclusive clubs" which might in the long run become
more successful. Profitable businesses do not bite the hands that feed
them. <3 Linda
Hill
willing to "make a sizeable investment in Michael" - it took me a while to
save up, too, at the time.
I certainly didn't get my money's worth. I joined in 1996 and Michael has
not toured in Britain since then. Information sent by post always arrived
long after it was relevant, being online was (is) the only possible way to
keep in touch with the goings on. June and Carol, who both have now been
co-opted to supply and distribute information for the Fan Club, did a
sterling job for us Brits before their association with the Fan club, and
still continue to do so. I think things have improved for the Stateside
fans since Gail got involved at that end. I never felt Fan Emporium promoted
Michael very well at all, there didn't seem to be much enthusiasm, and often
didn't seem to know what was happening in his career.
I too thought "lifetime" meant my lifetime, though of course I always
recognised the instigation of such a Club was not a good business move to
keep funds rolling in.
I am not bitter, just disappointed, yet again. It seems I'm always
disappointed these days, where Michael is concerned. I've lost interest and
faith in the Man himself, as everything around him seems so poorly managed.
Will I join the Platinum Club? I really don't know, I'll need to weigh up
the possible advantages against the cost. At least financially I am in a
better position than I was a few years ago to be able to fund an annual
subscription, but, realistically, here in Britain, will I get anything out
of being a Platinum Club member? The chance to get four preferred seats, as
opposed to two, is irrelevant if Michael does not honour all those promises
made over the years to tour. Perhaps there's someone out there who can
persuade me it would be advantageous to join, but at the moment I'm not
convinced.
Margaret
"Lori Mickey" <bolt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wM6dnZQu04t...@bedford.net...
Meri
>how is it accomplishing that goal to
> lose fans in the process and how is it pleasing its "consumers" (to wit,
> the fans) by eliminating a club whose members have paid "lifetime" dues?
> For profit businesses renegotiate, they don't reneg.
Again Fan Factory hasn't reneged on anything because the agreement for
the lifetime membership was with Fan Emporium NOT Fan Factory. Fan
Factory didn't have to honor the Gold Club tickets for the last couple
years, but they did. To me that's acting to please their customers.
They simply can't continue to do that and had to make what had to be a
tough BUSINESS decision.
> All of which would appear to obviate the need for a fan club.
???? that makes no sense at all.
>As forpassing out flyers at shows, one can slip the stage hands a few
> backstage passes and have them leave the flyers on the seats. I'm sure
> Fan Factory will take whatever help the fans offer, too. But then "Why
> buy the cow when you can have the milk for free?" <VBG>
Well considering that the stage hands get PAID by the artist whether
it be through the venue or through their own production company it
wouldn't be fiscally sound to have someone who should be putting up
lights or sound equipment pass out flyers. Again, you make no sense.
> Perhaps what might deter fans from doing any/all of the above might be a
> lack of motivation.
Wouldn't that be the fan's problem? So what you're saying is that you
not only want Fan Factory to provide preferred seating to concerts for
you for free (because they never recieved any money from Gold Club
members) but you also want them to gather and disseminate information
for free as well. Again, you make no sense.
>Perhaps some would like the fan club to operate more as a country
club with
> the same exclusivity?
Again you make no sense. Anyone who wants to pay the membership dues
can join the fan club.
> As a matter of fact, Michael Bolton is the STAR that the fans join the club for in the first place. That is indeed THE issue being discussed.
No, it isn't. You again digress into a discussion of something other
than what the post was about. A post was made asking for opinons about
the demise of the Gold Club, NOT about Michael. THAT is what is being
discussed. Will you please stick to the issue to make your points...
if you can.
>How can one justify supporting his career by pulling > the
foundations of a fan base out from under it?
No one is taking the fan base out from under Michael. They are simply
unable financially to support the dead weight of the Gold Club. I
would think that any fan of Michael's would rather have a club that is
alive and vibrant and active and is offering new information, new
products, new benefits along with the continued ability to get
preferred seating for concerts at a very low cost, than to have that
club die because it can't financially support itself. So many artist
have no fan club club at all. I would think fans would be happy that
we have a fan club which is trying to grow and change with times and
the artists' career.
> it follows, ipso facto, that the more > volunteers, the less money required to run the club.
That would only go toward salaries, not the day-to-day general
operating costs of the club and since probably a great percentage of
the fan club does not live within an hour or so of where the club is
located, most fans can't volunteer to do things like answer mail
(which is one of the major tasks of the club.
>It was my > understanding from what was said both on the AOL board
and this > newsgroup that at least some originators of the club were
not on the > payroll for quite a while and that they volunteered their
time and
> energies
That is true, but that is not how the official fan club officially
started, which is what you asked. I'm sure the original volunteers
couldn't get preferred seating for the members.
The whole point is that an opinion was asked for and one was given.
I'm sorry you can't seem to agree on anything that anyone says and I'm
sorry you feel it necessary to engage in circular arguments about
things not being discussed.
End of discussion. If anyone would honestly like to know how I feel on
this subject, please email me at IlvFr...@yahoo.com.
Linda Gallo
> Again Fan Factory hasn't reneged on anything because the agreement
> for the lifetime membership was with Fan Emporium NOT Fan Factory.
> Fan Factory didn't have to honor the Gold Club tickets for the last
> couple years, but they did. To me that's acting to please their
> customers. They simply can't continue to do that and had to make what
> had to be a tough BUSINESS decision.
>
Linda responds:
When one contracts to buy a business, one purchases the entire business
"AS IS" - that is, the members rights and entitlements pass on to the
new owners. If Fan Factory did not intend to CONTINUE the Gold Club,
the time to have RENEGOTIATED with GC members should have been when they
took over - not by "closing the barn door after the horse got out." It
isn't pleasing one's customers if management discovers that a certain
club is not producing a profit; it is pleasing only to the Fan Factory
to dissolve it rather than carry it as a loss leader. It's hardly a
"tough" business call to cut corners to lower expenditures. However,
there are tougher calls being made by those who "spend money to make
money." They're called "investors" - Wall Street is replete with them.
>
>> All of which would appear to obviate the need for a fan club.
> ???? that makes no sense at all.
Webster's second definition of the word "obviate" - "...to make
unnecessary..."
>
> Well considering that the stage hands get PAID by the artist whether
> it be through the venue or through their own production company it
> wouldn't be fiscally sound to have someone who should be putting up
> lights or sound equipment pass out flyers. Again, you make no sense.
>
It's very "fiscally sound" to get as few people to do as much work as
possible for the same amount of money. Your sound business solution
would be perhaps to slip the backstage passes to the volunteers who
would personally hand out the flyers and more than likely miss the
majority of ticketholders entering through other entrances? Your
volunteer base would have to be larger, not smaller, for that. As we
have already ascertained, what with the disbanding of the Gold Club that
volunteer base is shrinking steadily. Of course there's nothing from
preventing YOU from taking on the full time responsibility of volunteer
extraordinaire - after all we wouldn't want the scenery to suffer...<VBG>
>
> Wouldn't that be the fan's problem? So what you're saying is that you
> not only want Fan Factory to provide preferred seating to concerts
> for you for free (because they never recieved any money from Gold
> Club members) but you also want them to gather and disseminate
> information for free as well. Again, you make no sense.
>
Check a few of othe other posters for reasons for "lack of motivation"
before expounding on what I am saying. "Preferred seating" is not FREE
seating - tickets still have to be paid for BY FANS regardless.
Management provides tickets in BLOCKS at reduced prices to the clubs.
I'm certain they're making some profit on them, albeit perhaps a small
one, but a profit nonetheless. Gold Club members have never received
their "preferred seats" FREE of charge nor have they ever suggested that
possibility. As for "free information" it ought to be quite obvious by
now that the internet is full of FREE information - so is the media.
Most of us have gotten our information FREELY from our Bolton Buddies
who shared, not charged, for it.
>> Perhaps some would like the fan club to operate more as a country
>> club with the same exclusivity?
> Again you make no sense. Anyone who wants to pay the membership dues
> can join the fan club.
>
Anyone can join, but not all can receive the "perks" according to you,
unless of course they are willing to pay additional yearly dues. Your
examples included country club members and vets - exclusive groups of
individuals who are affiliated because they are members of a specific group.
>> As a matter of fact, Michael Bolton is the STAR that the fans join
>> the club for in the first place. That is indeed THE issue being
>> discussed.
> No, it isn't. You again digress into a discussion of something other
> than what the post was about. A post was made asking for opinons
> about the demise of the Gold Club, NOT about Michael. THAT is what is
> being discussed. Will you please stick to the issue to make your
> points... if you can.
>
The issue IS Michael Bolton. The fan club would be non-existent without
him. Check the other posters please and try if you can to understand
that the reason most of us joined the fan club was because we admire
Michael Bolton and enjoy his music. As for the demise of the Gold Club;
my membership was a birthday gift from my daughter. She could have
given me a membership to LA Fitness, Jenny Craig, or any number of other
artists' fan clubs. She gave me a LIFETIME membership to the Michael
Bolton Fan Club. GEE, I wonder why...
>> How can one justify supporting his career by pulling the
>> foundations of a fan base out from under it?>
> No one is taking the fan base out from under Michael. They are simply
> unable financially to support the dead weight of the Gold Club.\
Oh, so now we're "dead weight" eh? Try the words "loss leader" they
have more of a professional business-like ring to them...
> I would think that any fan of Michael's would rather have a club that
> is alive and vibrant and active and is offering new information, new
> products, new benefits along with the continued ability to get
> preferred seating for concerts at a very low cost, than to have that
> club die because it can't financially support itself. So many artist
> have no fan club club at all. I would think fans would be happy that
> we have a fan club which is trying to grow and change with times and
> the artists' career.
>
The Gold Club would still be "alive, active and vibrant" had it been
given a new lease on life instead of a death sentence. BTW it is
Michael Bolton offering that "new information" by way of new albums,
movies, endeavors - NOT the fan club. Where would the club be without
him and HIS talents?! As for "new products," you forget that some of us
"old fans" might not be counted on to buy those new products if we
continue to be treated as "objects" instead of subjects ("dead weight"
indeed!) The Gold Club didn't die because it couldn't financially
support iself. It is defunct because it was discontinued by new
management who was, by your own admission, out to make a PROFIT at the
expense of losing fans. If some artists have no fan clubs, perhaps the
public hasn't beeen as MOTIVATED as we Michael Bolton fans have been BY
MICHAEL BOLTON! Give the man the credit he is due please! I don't
continue to stay on to discuss "business ventures" with a neophyte!
FYI: the artist's career isn't changing - it is growing. Times have
changed but then again that is the nature of life - change (hopefully of
a positive variety). I reiterate, the Gold Club was not given the
opportunity to grow with the artist's career; it was martyred for
profit. Worse yet, its members were not even consulted as to their
feelings. Perhaps their input could have saved the face that now has
egg all over it, eh? ; )
>> it follows, ipso facto, that the more volunteers, the less money
>> required to run the club.
> That would only go toward salaries, not the day-to-day general
> operating costs of the club and since probably a great percentage of
> the fan club does not live within an hour or so of where the club is
> located, most fans can't volunteer to do things like answer mail
> (which is one of the major tasks of the club.
>
I don't believe the fans are as much interested in responses from the
club volunteers as they would be from hearing from the Maestro himself.
Once upon a time, I remember a wonderful (and very
successful)HOTLINE... The point I was making, that you apparently
missed, was that volunteers work without benefit of salary; therefore,
it follows that the club doesn't need such a huge profit margin to
operate given its daily "general operating costs." As to proximity to
CT, I've presided over clubs wherein phone chains provided an extremely
effective method of communication in the days before home computers.
Nowadays, the word gets out much more swiftly, effectively, and cheaply
via the internet. How much does that cost the club? Perhaps the
monthly AOL fee (which BTW could be reduced substantially by choosing a
less expensive provider...)
>
>> It was my understanding from what was said both on the AOL board
>> and this newsgroup that at least some originators of the club were
>> not on the payroll for quite a while and that they volunteered
>> their time and energies
> That is true, but that is not how the official fan club officially
> started, which is what you asked. I'm sure the original volunteers
> couldn't get preferred seating for the members.
>
I think perhaps too much weight is being given to "preferred seating."
While I believe well-intentioned, I haven't found the preferred seating
that beneficial and apparently neither have many other fans. What good
is preferred seating for concert venues where he only appears
sporadically every several years? Preferred seating for East
Coast/Canada venues is certainly more attractive to fans who live in
those areas. However, that leaves out the majority of the fans who live
in the rest of the country and internationally who can't afford the
travel expenses to get to those venues. Some of us are women and
children at risk with little enough money for the necessities much less
the luxuries of life. I'm certain that many are aware of the advocates
of conspicuous consumption whose rationale is to "save money" by
spending more money for "preferred seats" for concerts that may/may not
take place in their locale. Some of us have to ask ourselves if
membership is worth the price for the possibility of a concert. What
difference two or four seats if no concert is going to be held nearby?
There are additional costs for us involved in travelling to more distant
venues. What seems a small yearly amount can burgeon into huge expenses
for the fans if all costs are considered.
> The whole point is that an opinion was asked for and one was given.
> I'm sorry you can't seem to agree on anything that anyone says and
> I'm sorry you feel it necessary to engage in circular arguments about
> things not being discussed.
You might recall that I did advise Lori that I'd get some opinions if I
posted - and I did! "VIVA IO" as the Spanish say! Thank you for
complying. I don't agree with what YOU say - that isn't "anyone." Then
again, we have rarely agreed on very much, if anything at all, over the
past several years. What is a "circular argument" pray tell? As for
Michael Bolton not "being discussed," may I suggest to you that raison
d'etre (FR: reason for being) of the Gold Club AND the Platinum Club is
one, Michael Bolton - the artist to whom we all owe allegiance and for
whom at least I joined the fan club. One can hardly discuss a "Michael
Bolton Fan Club" regardless of its color, Gold or Platinum, without
discussing Michael Bolton. The very title bears his name does it not?
>
> End of discussion. If anyone would honestly like to know how I feel
> on this subject, please email me at IlvFr...@yahoo.com.
Are we to assume that what you have been posting is not "how [you] feel
but rather how you MUST respond? Don't just say things for the sake of
being accepted by fellow Club members. By all means, dare to speak
freely here - or anywhere! <LOL> We really aren't the enemy, ya know.
We're just Michael Bolton fans like yourself who feel somewhat
slighted, if not downright miffed, that our lifetime memberships were
disbanded with all the grace of a bull rampaging through a china closet.
Thank goodness we never acted that way when we enjoyed our "preferred
seating" on those rare occasions that Michael Bolton graced us with his
Presence...but then times are changing right? Maybe all management's
tinkering with his fan clubs is costing him at the box office; it's a
possibility!!! Perhaps it's time for a change in management not fans!!!
The foregoing is JMHO - and it hasn't been wrong yet!!! I rest on my
laurels! 0; ) <3 Linda
Meri
> When one contracts to buy a business, one purchases the entire business
> "AS IS" - that is, the members rights and entitlements pass on to the
> new owners.
That is not true. Business are often sold in parts. And obviously the
Gold Club wasn't part of the deal. You are wrong (see the end of your
previous post... you ARE wrong).
> It's hardly a
> "tough" business call to cut corners to lower expenditures.
Obviously you've never been in business. Any time a business person
makes a decision that could get customers upset it is a difficult
decision. Again, you are wrong.
> Webster's second definition of the word "obviate" - "...to make
> unnecessary..."
Your arguement didn't make sense, not the vocabulary, but thanks for
the un-needed lesson.
> It's very "fiscally sound" to get as few people to do as much work as
> possible for the same amount of money.
Not when you have to pay highly paid union people for something you
can get done free by volunteers. You're the one who brought up having
stage hands pass out fliers, not me.
>Your sound business solution would be perhaps to slip the backstage
passes to the volunteers who would personally hand out the flyers and
more than likely miss the majority of ticketholders entering through
other entrances?
Actually at the show I saw people handing the fliers out it was both
before and after the show and they were at all exits and entrances to
the building. And, from what I understand no one received any
backstage passes for handing out fliers.
> Of course there's nothing from
> preventing YOU from taking on the full time responsibility of volunteer
> extraordinaire - after all we wouldn't want the scenery to suffer...<VBG>
I have no clue what you mean about the scenery, but I do volunteer for
the fan club as often as I can.
> Check a few of othe other posters for reasons for "lack of motivation"
> before expounding on what I am saying. "Preferred seating" is not FREE
> seating - tickets still have to be paid for BY FANS regardless.
> Management provides tickets in BLOCKS at reduced prices to the clubs.
> I'm certain they're making some profit on them, albeit perhaps a small
> one, but a profit nonetheless.
Again, you're wrong. The venues allow the fan club members to purchase
the seats in the first 15 rows at normal prices before they go on sale
to the general public, which is what is required by Michael's
contract. This year the fan club collected the money and purchased the
seats directly from the venues and then distributed the seats to the
fans. The only extra money they charged was for shipping and
processing, the same as Ticketmaster or any box office does. I highly
doubt they make any money of the service.
>Gold Club members have never received
> their "preferred seats" FREE of charge nor have they ever suggested that
> possibility. As for "free information" it ought to be quite obvious by
> now that the internet is full of FREE information - so is the media.
> Most of us have gotten our information FREELY from our Bolton Buddies
> who shared, not charged, for it.
Since FAN FACTORY never recieved any money from ANY Gold Club
membership dues, yet have continued to provide the seating service and
information for the members the members did not pay FAN FACTORY for
the service, therefore it was free.
> Anyone can join, but not all can receive the "perks" according to you,
> unless of course they are willing to pay additional yearly dues.
To join the current fan club a person must pay the dues. No member
gets any more or any fewer "perks" than any other member. Period.
. Oh, so now we're "dead weight" eh? Try the words "loss leader" they
> have more of a professional business-like ring to them...
I never said the members were dead weight. You against twisted meaning
to change my point. I said the GOLD CLUB, which was no longer bringing
any money into the business was dead weight. A company cannot support
a division that isn't making any money. Take some business classes and
maybe you'll understand the concept.
> The Gold Club didn't die because it couldn't financially
> support iself. It is defunct because it was discontinued by new
> management who was, by your own admission, out to make a PROFIT at the
> expense of losing fans.
Actually the Gold Club was discontinued years before the new
management took over when it stopped taking on new members. And I
NEVER EVER said that fan club was out to make a profit at the expense
of losing fans. YOU said that. What I said is that I would rather have
a club which requires a membership fee than no club at all. Stop
lying.
> I don't believe the fans are as much interested in responses from the
> club volunteers as they would be from hearing from the Maestro himself.
Actually Lori asked for responses from other Gold Club members, and
not from Michael, so again, you are wrong.
>As to proximity to
> CT, I've presided over clubs wherein phone chains provided an extremely
> effective method of communication in the days before home computers.
Actually, the fan club isn't run out of CT, haven't you checked the
website lately? And you still can't process mail over the phone. The
club has to have people to process merchandise orders, talk to venues
on the phone and process ticket orders, process Michael's mail and
countless other things you can't do over the phone. The fan club does
a lot of things most fans, including obviously YOU don't know about or
recognize as part of the job. It's NOT just about putting information
on a website.
> How much does that cost the club? Perhaps the
> monthly AOL fee (which BTW could be reduced substantially by choosing a
> less expensive provider...)
If you look at the new website it is not on AOL. Also, most free web
providers don't offer much free space. The new site is already quite
extensive and I'm sure requires more of a server and more space than
AOL or other free providers offer. Even Yahoo and MSN are starting to
charge for services which take more space.
> I think perhaps too much weight is being given to "preferred seating."
> While I believe well-intentioned, I haven't found the preferred seating
> that beneficial and apparently neither have many other fans.
You're the only one I've heard say anything negative.
>What good
> is preferred seating for concert venues where he only appears
> sporadically every several years?
Then why be a member of the Gold Club anyway because unless I'm
mistaken, access to the website and preferred seating were the only
services the club offered. You can still be a Bolton fan without the
Gold Club. So what's the big deal?
>One can hardly discuss a "Michael
> Bolton Fan Club" regardless of its color, Gold or Platinum, without
> discussing Michael Bolton. The very title bears his name does it not?
They can when the discussion is about the fact that the club is gone
and has nothing to do with Michael or his music. It's only you who
can't stick to the topic at hand. But then, as you have proven time
and time again, you never could.
> Are we to assume that what you have been posting is not "how [you] feel
> but rather how you MUST respond? Don't just say things for the sake of
> being accepted by fellow Club members.
?????????????? Again you put words into my mouth. As I stated
previously what I've written is my opinion. It IS how I feel and I
couldn't care less what the other fan club members think about what is
an honest and well thoughtout opinion. Lori asked and I answered.
I appreciate all of the hard work that goes into operating the fan
club. I have never once been let down by anyone at Fan Emporium or at
Fan Factory. They have always been kind, gracious, professional and
have gone out of their way to help me if I had a problem. While I do
feel bad that the Gold Club is gone and that a few people are upset
about it, I feel the direction the Michael Bolton Fan Club is taking
is a good one. I believe they are trying to change with the times and
to serve as many people as possible.
> Perhaps it's time for a change in management not fans!!!
No one wants any fans to go away. And since Michael is the person who
chose the current management, I would assume that as a fan you would
want to support Michael and his choice by supporting the club and it's
management.
> The foregoing is JMHO - and it hasn't been wrong yet!!! I rest on my
> laurels!
You just never admit when your wrong, or simply can't see when you
are. There's a difference. No one is perfect Linda.
Meri
Linda Gallo
> That is not true. Business are often sold in parts. And obviously the
> Gold Club wasn't part of the deal. You are wrong (see the end of
> your previous post... you ARE wrong).
>
members AFTER the take-over? Either management, Fan Factory, did/did
not manage the Gold Club in some way, shape or form up and until its
untimely "death" less than a month ago. It isn't a matter of right or
wrong; it is a matter of subjective opinion. You're the one subjecting
your opinion to our objective interpretations of it.
> Obviously you've never been in business. Any time a business person
> makes a decision that could get customers upset it is a difficult
> decision. Again, you are wrong.
>
UGH! Is this your neophyte's definition of a "tough decision?" Take my
Business 101 course please. This former Wall Street Wizard's wife would
just love you to lay that little gem on some of Big Business' finest.
> Your arguement didn't make sense, not the vocabulary, but thanks for
> the un-needed lesson.
>
Tsk, tsk...you never were good with innuendos or double entendres. For
that matter, where did you get the word "un-needed?" Certainly not
Webster's. Next time, use Roget's Thesaurus: perhaps "needless" or
"unnecessary" might suffice. I shudder to think of what GBS would do
with the likes of you: Pig-mail-eon for the 21st Century! <ROFL>
> Not when you have to pay highly paid union people for something you
> can get done free by volunteers. You're the one who brought up having
> stage hands pass out fliers, not me.
>
OOOHHHH! You shouldn't have brought up those labor union people. Think
of all the paying jobs those volunteers took away from them that night.
Naughty, naughty...I wouldn't go bragging about it lest da Godfather
and his boys might just be readin' these posts... :-)
> Actually at the show I saw people handing the fliers out it was both
> before and after the show and they were at all exits and entrances to
> the building. And, from what I understand no one received any
> backstage passes for handing out fliers.
>
Did they have the proper authorization to do that? Did the union know
about it? Those well meaning volunteers could have cost some union
worker's kid their dinner that night! For shame, for shame...Before you
get yourself into another dither and try to extricate yourself from your
own trap - remember: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than
to speak and remove all doubt." Thanks for removing whatever doubt the
readership may yet have had about your efficacy.
>
> I have no clue what you mean about the scenery, but I do volunteer
> for the fan club as often as I can.
>
Actually my dear you have "no clue" PERIOD! <ROFL>
>
> Again, you're wrong. The venues allow the fan club members to
> purchase the seats in the first 15 rows at normal prices before they
> go on sale to the general public, which is what is required by
> Michael's contract. This year the fan club collected the money and
> purchased the seats directly from the venues and then distributed the
> seats to the fans. The only extra money they charged was for shipping
> and processing, the same as Ticketmaster or any box office does. I
> highly doubt they make any money of the service.
>
That would be the first 15 rows BEHIND the orchestra pit undoubtedly.
Got my last seats from a scalper - 2nd row orchestra pit. Other dues
paying members were fortunate enough to win their front row seats from
local radio stations. Now what was that about "perks?" Venues factor
the profit into the cost of the ticket. They are, after all, in the
business of making profits unlike most fan clubs.
>
> Since FAN FACTORY never recieved any money from ANY Gold Club
> membership dues, yet have continued to provide the seating service
> and information for the members the members did not pay FAN FACTORY
> for the service, therefore it was free.
>
This is the same Fan Factory you referred to a few paragraphs ago as not
purchasing the Gold Club as part of its deal? Your words verbatim: >> That is not true. Business are often sold in parts. And obviously the
>> Gold Club wasn't part of the deal.
What's it going to be Meri - was it, or was it not, part of "the deal?"
One can't be expected to formulate a response to an unsound
fallacious opinion particularly from someone who contradicts themselves
from paragraph to paragraph within the same post. Earth to Meri: even
we lifetime GC members pay for our tickets. As for info: we've provided
enough sharing of FREE info to the fan club - I do believe the GC
members are entitled to at least a little respect from management rather
than a death sentence. It wouldn't have hurt to NEGOTIATE rather than
to reneg on its contractual obligations - and according to contract law,
it was every bit as responsible for GC as it was for PC. Services were
to have been provided for a "lifetime." Fan Factory failed to redefine
"lifetime" when it took over, hence it is responsible as originally
understood by the members who paid their lifetime GC dues.
>
> To join the current fan club a person must pay the dues. No member
> gets any more or any fewer "perks" than any other member. Period.
>
FYI: when both clubs were in existence - less than one short month ago
- Platinum Club members were receiving FOUR reserved seating tickets
and Gold Club members TWO. Do the math! That adds up to TWO more
"perks" for PC members - two additional seats that Gold Club members
were not entitled to purchase - EXCLAMATION POINT!!!
>
> I never said the members were dead weight. You against twisted
> meaning to change my point. I said the GOLD CLUB, which was no longer
> bringing any money into the business was dead weight. A company
> cannot support a division that isn't making any money. Take some
> business classes and maybe you'll understand the concept.
>
Oh, I see...the "club" - that non-existent entity encompassing live
breathing human MEMBERS was deadweight - not the actual members
themselves. thanks for clarifying that...So the club, devoid of its
membership, is expected to generate profits is it? How does one
accomplish that feat without the membership? Enlighten me - inqiring
minds want to know. Sign up for my course in Business 101 - you might
learn something. Before you do, please research "loss leaders."
>
> Actually the Gold Club was discontinued years before the new
> management took over when it stopped taking on new members. And I
> NEVER EVER said that fan club was out to make a profit at the expense
> of losing fans. YOU said that. What I said is that I would rather
> have a club which requires a membership fee than no club at all. Stop
> lying.
>
GEE that's funny - who's calling whom a liar? I do believe that the
very first mention I'd heard about the demise of the Gold Club was from
Gail who referred us to the website - that was within the past two
months. What you're saying is that it was "discontinued years before
the new management took over when it stopped taking on new members?"
Nice of everyone to let the rest of us deadweight know, dontcha think?
That's hardly a way to encourage or keep fans - new or old! Was there
some sort of announcement that the Gold Club would no longer be
accepting new members? I must have missed that one. Apparently so did
Fan Factory when it took over and gave us all of those "free perks" when
we didn't pay them any dues...keep going - you're making a great case
for us NOT to join the Plantinum Club..."Honesty is the best policy" and
I hardly find any honesty in such practices.
>
> Actually Lori asked for responses from other Gold Club members, and
> not from Michael, so again, you are wrong.
>
"Text and context" as my Scripture Prof used to advise us. You took my
text out of context. I was referring to your mention of volunteers
opening/responding to fan mail. I suggested that the fans would much
rather hear from the Man hisself the way we once did over the Hotline
(which BTW was very profitable once upon a time - whatever happened to
that profit-making venture?)Did it meet the same undisclosed fate as the
GC? "Where have all the flowers gone?...long time passing..."
>
> Actually, the fan club isn't run out of CT, haven't you checked the
> website lately? And you still can't process mail over the phone. The
> club has to have people to process merchandise orders, talk to venues
> on the phone and process ticket orders, process Michael's mail and
> countless other things you can't do over the phone. The fan club does
> a lot of things most fans, including obviously YOU don't know about
> or recognize as part of the job. It's NOT just about putting
> information on a website.
You mean the website that we "deadweight" former GC members no longer
have the secret password to? Is that info for public consumption or
just for the dues-paying "fans only?" FYI: you can respond to fan mail
via the internet. Pam Anderson does it, so do lots of other celebs. As
for processing orders, etc. - that's part of the money-making - for
profit - end of the business. As for: The fan club does a lot of
things most fans, including obviously YOU don't know about..." Perhaps
like soliciting and reading "confidential and personal" intellectual
property as some unsavory former employees were wont to do? Oh, I DO
know more than you'd care to hear about THAT...
> If you look at the new website it is not on AOL. Also, most free web
> providers don't offer much free space. The new site is already quite
> extensive and I'm sure requires more of a server and more space than
> AOL or other free providers offer. Even Yahoo and MSN are starting to
> charge for services which take more space.
>
Ya know I just might take a gander at the new site but I don't feel
welcome. Secret passwords notwithstanding, it wouldn't matter if the
new site was the greatest, biggest, most technologically advanced if ALL
fans aren't encouraged to visit it. "You can lead the horse to water
but you can't make it drink." And when you poison the water with the
bitterness of exclusivity, even some "deadweight" nags aren't stupid
enough to drink it! Dahling it could be freely hosted, donated, bought
and paid for by some generous mogul - if you don't have fans - you don't
need the website - or the fan club for that matter!
>
> You're the only one I've heard say anything negative.
>
Then you've been remiss in reading the other posts. I'm flattered that
you choose to react to mine even if only out of sheer desire to get the
last word. <LOL> You should know better by now - "she who laughs last,
laughs best" and I'm still laughing over the last attempts to silence
the Wise One of the Web! <VBG> ENCORE! ENCORE!!!
>
> Then why be a member of the Gold Club anyway because unless I'm
> mistaken, access to the website and preferred seating were the only
> services the club offered. You can still be a Bolton fan without the
> Gold Club. So what's the big deal?
>
You are so right - splinter groups abound do they not? Gotta watch out
for those splinter groups though. We wouldn't want the "deadweight" GC
coming back to life as a "new" Gold Club would we? After all, if no one
"owns" it and it was "discontinued" years ago, there is nothing from
preventing its still very much alive members from resurrecting it is
there? And thanks for making the point that we don't actually NEED a
fan club - I'm sure the "new" Platinum Club appreciates your efforts to
encourage new fans - and "dead" old fans - back into the flock.
>
> They can when the discussion is about the fact that the club is gone
> and has nothing to do with Michael or his music. It's only you who
> can't stick to the topic at hand. But then, as you have proven time
> and time again, you never could.
>
Let me put this in simpler more mundane terms for the "unenlightened"
amongst us: The club - that offered preferred seating for Michael
Bolton concerts is gone and you believe this has nothing to do with
Michael or his music? I don't believe you'll find an artist or star who
would agree with you on that one. Fans have EVERYTHING to do with an
artist's success/failure and the promotion of his/her music. FANS RULE
- they certainly do! You can't use 'em and lose 'em in this industry!
The pedestals the public builds for its idols are very easily knocked
right out from under them when the fan base is challenged. The industry
is in trouble in case you didn't know it. For that matter, so is the
economy. The artist's bread and butter is the fan base; make no mistake
about that. Granted that will not change the man's character or the
quality of his music but what good is either if you sing to an empty
house? There are no profits to be made on empty seats and no resultant
funds with which to pay all of those high paid union people.
>
> ?????????????? Again you put words into my mouth. As I stated
> previously what I've written is my opinion. It IS how I feel and I
> couldn't care less what the other fan club members think about what
> is an honest and well thoughtout opinion. Lori asked and I answered.
>
Obviously you "couldn't care less what the other fan club members think"
as your posts have made an excellent case AGAINST fan clubs. Thank you
for answering Lori's post - AFTER I had mentioned in my answer to her
that I was certain she'd get responses once I posted. Once again, the
Wise One of the Web is the Gadfly of Bolton Land! <LOL>
> I appreciate all of the hard work that goes into operating the fan
> club. I have never once been let down by anyone at Fan Emporium or at
> Fan Factory. They have always been kind, gracious, professional and
> have gone out of their way to help me if I had a problem. While I do
> feel bad that the Gold Club is gone and that a few people are upset
> about it, I feel the direction the Michael Bolton Fan Club is taking
> is a good one. I believe they are trying to change with the times and
> to serve as many people as possible.
>
It is gratifying to know that dues paying members get such "kind,
gracious, and professional attention." If the "direction" the fan club
is taking is down, not up, than I think it's headed for a dive. An
admitted loss in membership (whether due to a deliberate effort of
management's part not to accept any new GC members or to fail to honor
its contractual obligations to former "lifetime" members) is not
indicative of an "onward and upward" trend. Now that the GC is "down
and out" it will be interesting to see how effective management's
strategies have been to attract "new" members to the "new" Platinum
Club. If your diatribes are any indication, the "new" club may well
meet its demise more swiftly than our Golden Oldie!
>
> No one wants any fans to go away. And since Michael is the person who
> chose the current management, I would assume that as a fan you would
> want to support Michael and his choice by supporting the club and
> it's management.
>
Did he chose it or perhaps it was part of his contractual arrangements
with Jive/BMI? Support for the artist does not always result in support
of the fan club/management. I offer as one example Selena's fan club
manager...need I offer any others? If management is not doing its best
for the artist, why should the fans support it? I didn't support Sony's
treatment of the Maestro - nor did many other fans. What came to pass
was the natural result of what happens when a company fails to
appreciate its legends. If the fan club doesn't appreciate Michael
Bolton enough to support his ENTIRE fan base, instead of focussing its
attention and customer relations upon the dues payers, they are not
giving HIM their best efforts. He doesn't deserve any less than ALL of
his fans being treated EQUALLY with the same respect, care and
attention. Even one disatisfied fan is cause for concern.
>
> You just never admit when your wrong, or simply can't see when you
> are. There's a difference. No one is perfect Linda.
>
I'm not wrong - as they say, "70 million Frenchmen can't be wrong..."
It ain't just me you're antagonizing with your pathetic justifications.
The matter at hand has nothing whatever to do with my being right or
wrong or anyone being "perfect." Perfection doesn't reside in
"correctness." Try taking a few courses in religious studies. The
issue is that the Gold Club was cancelled without so much as consulting
its lifetime members who did pay a one-time fee for their membership.
That is a binding contract - services were rendered and the price paid
for those services. If that contract were to have been changed in any
way, shape or form, then the members who were a part thereof should have
been duly notified/consulted. If the definition of "lifetime" changed
or was reinterpreted or misinterpreted, then the time to have clarified
the matter was at the time the club changed hands. Such unprofessional
conduct is unbefitting any employee of a man of Michael's stature and
public standing. It reflects badly on him. As always, these things
seem to arise every time he has a new album coming out. Now he has TWO
albums about to be released and true to form, the "bad news is better
than no news" approach seems to be the prevalent PR ploy. Tsk,
tsk...what's it going to take to get management to wise up? And what is
it going to take to get YOU to live up to your own platitudes? Doesn't
"end of conversation" have any meaning for you or do you honestly
believe, after all this time, that you will actually get le dernier cri
in over my peals of laughter? ; ) Surely you know better by now! La
Linda rides again - have smoking gun - will travel!!! <ROFL> Hey,
Maestro - if you're reading this - and I know that you are - I LOVE YOU!
And so do your other "deadweight" fans!!! We'll be there, even if we
don't get "preferred seating!" They can't take the fan out of the fan
but they sure as hell are trying to take the fans away from THE MAN! I
have never been a proponent of the "divide and conquer" method; UNITED
WE STAND and we're united in our admiration and love for YOU, Michael
Bolton - the make who makes the music we come to hear. <3 Linda
Jennifer in Orlando
position we take on the subject. But the fact remains that the Gold
Club no longer exists and unfortunately that has upset a number of
fans. It seems to me that instead of arguing amongst ourselves (the
fans) about it that perhaps we should accept it as what will be and
move on. We should look forward to the tour and the Gala and Fan
Reception and think how much fun we will have when we all get together
and share our common interest - Michael Bolton. I know I sound like a
commercial for PEACE but in this day and time, I think maybe that's
what we need more of.
Thanks for letting me ramble....
Linda Gallo <li...@van-kopp.com> wrote in message news:<3F28B9DE...@van-kopp.com>...
Meri
> > Actually at the show I saw people handing the fliers out it was both
> > before and after the show and they were at all exits and entrances to
> > the building. And, from what I understand no one received any
> > backstage passes for handing out fliers.
> >
> Did they have the proper authorization to do that? Did the union know
> about it?
Obviously they did or the venue wouldn't have allowed them to pass the
fliers out on private property.
> That would be the first 15 rows BEHIND the orchestra pit undoubtedly.
Since the contract states within the first 15 rows the venue has the
option to put all of the fan club seats in the 15th row if they want
to. How sad it is that you attack a policy which Michael has kept in
his contract no matter what as a benefit FOR the fans for at least 10
years. He's trying to do something nice FOR THE FANS and yet still
they complain.
> Got my last seats from a scalper - 2nd row orchestra pit.
Buying illegal tickets huh? Sad that the artist and his band couldn't
profit from the extra money you had to have paid the scalper. Stealing
from Michael...tsk tsk tsk.
>Other dues paying members were fortunate enough to win their front
row seats from > local radio stations.
All fan club members and the rest of the ticket buying public has the
opportunity to win tickets, so? They can also purchase tickets from
Ticketmaster and box office etc. That doesn't change the fact that
other fans at that show who got in the first 15 rows because of
Michael's kind policy. In more than 10 years of buying tickets to
Michael's show using his generous policy I've always had a lot better
seats than those I've bought through other sources for other artists.
But it doesn't stop me from trying to win tickets on the radio if I
can. Almost everyone wants to sit in the front row.
> What's it going to be Meri - was it, or was it not, part of "the deal?"
Like you, I was not privy to the contract at the time, so I don't
know. But from what I read and understand, the Gold Club was not part
of the package but Fan Factory let GC members purchase tickets anyway
because they wanted to do a good thing for the fans. And, from what I
understand, they have only stopped doing so because they can't afford
to continue. I could be wrong, but unlike you I can admit that.
> I do believe the GC > members are entitled to at least a little respect from management rather > than a death sentence.
I never said they weren't entitled to respect and I believe I did
agree that things could have been handled differently. But what I've
said all along is that I can understand the decision that was made and
I think it's time to move forward and support Michael and his club
instead of bashing them.
> > To join the current fan club a person must pay the dues. No member
> > gets any more or any fewer "perks" than any other member. Period.
> >
> FYI: when both clubs were in existence - less than one short month ago
> - Platinum Club members were receiving FOUR reserved seating tickets
> and Gold Club members TWO. Do the math! That adds up to TWO more
> "perks" for PC members - two additional seats that Gold Club members
> were not entitled to purchase
Linda, stop ranting long enough to read the post ... I said the
CURRENT club.
> What you're saying is that it was "discontinued years before
> the new management took over when it stopped taking on new members?"
Technically yes. By discontinued I meant that new members could no
longer join. Maybe I should have said closed to new membership. It's a
different definition of the terms Linda that's all. Again you simply
twist it all around to say whatever you want it to.
> Nice of everyone to let the rest of us deadweight know, dontcha think?
> That's hardly a way to encourage or keep fans - new or old! Was there
> some sort of announcement that the Gold Club would no longer be
> accepting new members? I must have missed that one.
You obviously did because yes I believe there was an announcement of
some sort. Do I remember exactly when and where, no. But I believe
there was an announcement that the Gold Club would no longer be
accepting new members.
> I suggested that the fans would much
> rather hear from the Man hisself the way we once did over the Hotline
> (which BTW was very profitable once upon a time - whatever happened to
> that profit-making venture?)
I'm sure most fans would love to have the hotline back, but it's the
tiny percentage of insane fans who make that possible.
> You mean the website that we "deadweight" former GC members no longer
> have the secret password to? Is that info for public consumption or
> just for the dues-paying "fans only?"
There is no password on the new website.
>FYI: you can respond to fan mail
> via the internet. Pam Anderson does it, so do lots of other celebs.
Now THAT's a woman you should want to emulate... Still, you can't send
an autorgraphed photo etc though the Internet... it wouldn't be the
same. Yes, the Internet can be used very well as a vehicle to
communicate with fans, (see Styxworld.com for an excellent example)
and I believe that is what Michael's fan club is working towards. But
you still need a physical office, real people to do the work and to
pay the electric, ISP and other bills. You still need money to run a
fan club.
>Perhaps
> like soliciting and reading "confidential and personal" intellectual
> property as some unsavory former employees were wont to do? Oh, I DO
> know more than you'd care to hear about THAT...
Here we go again... more irrational rantings. I knew it wouldn't be
long. And how go the lawsuits you filed ? Oh that's right... there
never were any suits... just more rantings.
> Ya know I just might take a gander at the new site but I don't feel
> welcome. Secret passwords notwithstanding, it wouldn't matter if the
> new site was the greatest, biggest, most technologically advanced if ALL
> fans aren't encouraged to visit it.
Like I said, there is no password to the new site. All of the
information there is open to anyone who would like to read it. It's
up-to-date and very professionally put together. ALL fans are
encouraged to visit. It's only you who are telling people no to.
> I'm flattered that
> you choose to react to mine ...
Actually I responded to Lori. The only reason I respond to your posts
is so that people won't think you have any real facts and hopefully
they will contact the fan club for the truth and not believe what you
have to say. If you'll notice Linda, most of the people who used to
post here have stopped because this is no longer a place people can
freely communicate without being flamed or have you rant on about
topics that aren't being discussed.
> I'm still laughing over the last attempts to silence
> the Wise One of the Web!
I'm glad you have some pleasure over the posts, and it's truly sad no
one can stop you from posting your rants and lies. That is testament
of the time we live in.
> You are so right - splinter groups abound do they not?
Actually, no they don't. There are several newsgroups (most of which
popped up as an attempt to let fans have a place to meet and gather
infomration without you there to spew your insanity), but no splinter
fan clubs. And even if there were ... they wouldn't be officially
supported by Michael and since that is the most important factor in a
club (isn't that what YOU said?) I would assume you would want to be a
part of the official club. But then ... you obviously don't care
enough.
> Fans have EVERYTHING to do with an
> artist's success/failure and the promotion of his/her music. FANS RULE
> - they certainly do! You can't use 'em and lose 'em in this industry!
Even though that wasn't the topic of the discussion, I agree, fans are
very important part of the industry. And, Michael has done nothing to
use or abuse his fans that I've seen. In fact, from everything I have
heard he's kind and gracious and respectful of the fans. Sad that you
would make that accusation.
> Obviously you "couldn't care less what the other fan club members think"
> as your posts have made an excellent case AGAINST fan clubs.
Again you put words in my mouth. I think fan clubs are great and I
think the official fan club for Michael Bolton is wonderful. It's you
who is maligning the club, not me. And besides, the emails I've
recieved have only been supportive of my opinion. Only you are being
negative and you are the only one attempting a personal attack.
> It is gratifying to know that dues paying members get such "kind,
> gracious, and professional attention."
Well, although I CHOSE to join the Platinum Club to further support
Michael and his career, I recieved the same attentive service before I
joined the PC. The people at Michael's fan club have always been and
are currently very hardworking dedicated people who truly care about
the fans and the artist we support.
> Did he chose it or perhaps it was part of his contractual arrangements
> with Jive/BMI?
Yes, Michael chose the fan club management. So again, you are wrong.
>Support for the artist does not always result in support
> of the fan club/management. I offer as one example Selena's fan club
> manager...need I offer any others?
Well insane fans is something you should know a lot about... pot...
kettle.
> > It ain't just me you're antagonizing with your pathetic justifications.
Funny, the emails I've received have been very supportive and where
are all the other people I'm supposidly antagonizing? They aren't
posting to support you. In fact, I've NEVER seen anyone posting to
support anything you have said except phantom posters who never were
real people.
>The
> issue is that the Gold Club was cancelled without so much as consulting
> its lifetime members who did pay a one-time fee for their membership.
Like I said, I do think it could have been handled differently, but I
understand why it wasn't.
> have smoking gun - will travel!!!
Veiled threat? Will you ever seek the professional help you so
obvilously need?
Meri
LAJ
One thing that you said in this post stands out ...
"The fact is that Fan Factory is a for profit business which has the
goal of supporting Michael Bolton's career as well as pleasing its
consumers, the fans."
As a fan, I don't want to be treated as a consumer. Fan club
membership is so much more personal than that. Purchasing a mug with
Michael's face on it doesn't support Michael ... it supports the
company that makes the mug. Yes, MB does receive a percentage of that
purchase; but the bottom line is that the mug company is very happy
each time the register goes ch-ching. I don't think that I want to
join a fan club who regards my dollars as more important than I am
.... as Fan Factory is a 'for profit' business, that's exactly what's
happening.
I love Michael's music and will support him in buying it. Beyond
that, I don't think that I can responsibly throw my allegiance (or my
dollars), to a business who's main concern is making money from fans.
I'm not so naieve to think that managing a fan club isn't expensive
... but a for-profit fan club? I just can't do it.
Lu Ann
Anna4374
writes:
>Is this one and the same club that wasn't charging dues to the GC
>members AFTER the take-over? Either management, Fan Factory, did/did
>not manage the Gold Club in some way, shape or form up and until its
>untimely "death" less than a month ago. It isn't a matter of right or
>wrong; it is a matter of subjective opinion. You're the one subjecting
>your opinion to our objective interpretations of it.
Hi Linda..........just wanted to correct something here. The Gold Club stopped
accepting new members in 1997. Therefore, GC members have not been charged
anything.........dues, included since that time. FansRule and Fan Factory
weren't part of the equation at all.
Anna
Anna4374
>What you're saying is that it was "discontinued years before
>the new management took over when it stopped taking on new members?"
>Nice of everyone to let the rest of us deadweight know, dontcha think?
>That's hardly a way to encourage or keep fans - new or old! Was there
>some sort of announcement that the Gold Club would no longer be
>accepting new members?
Yes there was....a flyer was mailed to members announcing the Platinum Club and
stating that no further GC memberships would be accepted..Again, as I
previously mentioned, Fan Emporium stopped accepting new GC members in 1997.
Anna4374
> FYI: when both clubs were in existence - less than one short month ago
>- Platinum Club members were receiving FOUR reserved seating tickets
>and Gold Club members TWO. Do the math! That adds up to TWO more
>"perks" for PC members - two additional seats that Gold Club members
>were not entitled to purchase - EXCLAMATION POINT!!!
Again, to clear something up..........prior to the announcement that the GC
would no longer be supported......GC & PC members were entitled to 2 tickets
only. IF a fan belonged to BOTH clubs, they were able to purchase 4 tickets.
Now, with the changeover to PC only, fan club members can now buy 4 tickets.
Linda Gallo
> Obviously they did or the venue wouldn't have allowed them to pass
> the fliers out on private property.
>
Brick walls are less "reactive" to the punches than the hard heads whose
minds are made up and don't wish to be confused with facts
nor riddled with rhymes. Figure that one out! <LOL> That ought to
keep your little addled brain busy for a while! <VBG>
>
> Since the contract states within the first 15 rows the venue has the
> option to put all of the fan club seats in the 15th row if they want
> to. How sad it is that you attack a policy which Michael has kept in
> his contract no matter what as a benefit FOR the fans for at least 10
> years. He's trying to do something nice FOR THE FANS and yet still
> they complain.
>
Michael Bolton experts there are to "defend" him from his obstreperous
fans. Tsk, tsk...WE are not the enemy. His own Mother sat several rows
behind us at a concert in LA (we had our "preferred seating" behind the
scalpers I guess - must have been that overcrowded 15th row!) <LOL>
What HE's trying to do for the fans is to entertain them - not divide
them into verbally armed camps and setting them at each other's throats.
Neither he, nor I, practice the "divide and conquer" theory.
We're the "united we stand" folks - ya know "the good guys."
>
> Buying illegal tickets huh? Sad that the artist and his band couldn't
> profit from the extra money you had to have paid the scalper.
> Stealing from Michael...tsk tsk tsk.
>
seating" from venues. Maybe it's because the fan club is out to "make a
profit" rather than concerning itself with the welfare of its fans. I'd
say that wasn't upholding Michael's contract on their part. It isn't
the fans who enforce the terms of Michael's contract or his wishes. In
fact, if I remember correctly, his wishes don't mean a whole lot to
certain of his [former] employees who take matters upon themselves
whilst completely disregarding HIS wishes. I'd watch who I was calling
a "thief" if I were you - and your f[r]iends! People in
self-constructed glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones in our
Father's Mansions..."let those among you without sin cast the first
stone..."
>
> All fan club members and the rest of the ticket buying public has the
> opportunity to win tickets, so? They can also purchase tickets from
> Ticketmaster and box office etc. That doesn't change the fact that
> other fans at that show who got in the first 15 rows because of
> Michael's kind policy. In more than 10 years of buying tickets to
> Michael's show using his generous policy I've always had a lot better
> seats than those I've bought through other sources for other
> artists. But it doesn't stop me from trying to win tickets on the
> radio if I can. Almost everyone wants to sit in the front row.
>
then is that it? So rather than choose to be scalped by the scalpers,
we should try to win tickets. Of course, YOU have never had to do that
because YOU have been so fortunate over these years to have the best
seats in the house. I doubt it was Michael's a** that you kissed for
that "perk." What is it they say, "It's not what you know but WHO you
know..." Keep trying to win those tickets now that the "power that was"
is no more...
>
> Like you, I was not privy to the contract at the time, so I don't
> know. But from what I read and understand, the Gold Club was not part
> of the package but Fan Factory let GC members purchase tickets
> anyway because they wanted to do a good thing for the fans. And, from
> what I understand, they have only stopped doing so because they can't
> afford to continue. I could be wrong, but unlike you I can admit
> that.
>
a position of authority on such matters. Fan Factory, by your own
admission, is in business to "make a profit." I find it hard to
believe, given my business experience, that they "let GC members
minds and disband the "deadweight?" Not enough money coming in from us
deadbeats for a decent profit? Tsk, tsk...keep talking, their image
gets more tarnished by the sentence...So are we now being advised by our
resident business expert that we can expect Fan Factory to follow GC
suit and die a swift martyr's death? That certainly gives prospective
PC members something to think about.
>
> I never said they weren't entitled to respect and I believe I did
> agree that things could have been handled differently. But what I've
> said all along is that I can understand the decision that was made
> and I think it's time to move forward and support Michael and his
> club instead of bashing them.
>
handled differently." I feel so much better now equipped with the
knowledge that you agree with something I've said. <VBG> "Tis not I
doing the bashing here - try rereading your own posts. You make them
look like a bunch of blood suckers out for a feast of Bolton Buddies!
Is THAT the image I'm portraying? Such representations hardly augur for
a professionally handled group of sharp marketers out to promote their
star amongst fans - new and old. One doesn't "move forward" by getting
stuck in the rut of narrow-mindedness. The way to solve a problem is
not to ignore it and hope it will go away if everyone "plays nice."
>
>> FYI: when both clubs were in existence - less than one short month
>> ago - Platinum Club members were receiving FOUR reserved seating
>> tickets and Gold Club members TWO. Do the math! That adds up to
>> TWO more "perks" for PC members - two additional seats that Gold
> Linda, stop ranting long enough to read the post ... I said the
> CURRENT club.
>
any different current, former, future? Hey - it's the only game in town
ain't it? Do we have a choice? NO! That isn't a rant;it's a fact.
>
> Technically yes. By discontinued I meant that new members could no
> longer join. Maybe I should have said closed to new membership. It's
> a different definition of the terms Linda that's all. Again you
> simply twist it all around to say whatever you want it to.
>
the GC members. How many members were aware that the GC was closed to
new members; that the death knell had been struck? And how many fans
might have been lost to that "tough decision?" And to think, I've been
getting all the blame for losing members...as always, the buck of
responsibility gets passed. Why does this not surprise me?!
>
> You obviously did because yes I believe there was an announcement of
> some sort. Do I remember exactly when and where, no. But I believe
> there was an announcement that the Gold Club would no longer be
> accepting new members.
>
befuddled BB's please. Someone? Anyone? Got any responses to this
latest verbal grenade?
>
> I'm sure most fans would love to have the hotline back, but it's the
> tiny percentage of insane fans who make that possible.
>
adding them to the "deadweight" dead GC fans? Lemme see, we've got
quite a few splinter groups forming here folks...the sane, the insane
and the inane - take your pick!
{Especially for Meri's benefit, I offer the following hypothetical
scenario of one "sane fan" addressing one inane fan regarding the
"insane" fan(s):) I've heard rumors of some fans who stalk him from
venue to venue to venue. Tsk, tsk...they go stand outside his house and
take pictures and hound him for autographs and photographs and pester
him with their problems. You'd think the man had nothing better to do
with his time than be badgered by such "deadweight!" I agree, if those
insane star stalkers are going to continue to waste time, effort, and
money chasing him all over the place, he'd best use his time more
creatively - by writing, acting, singing to entertain the REAL fans! ; )
(OHHHH MAESTRO just wait until you see the reaction to that one! <ROFL>)
>
> There is no password on the new website.
>
print on the new website? No passwords? No secret passageways? No
Bolton Police breathing down our eager little necks waiting to catch
some insane fan surfing the net for information about Michael Bolton?
GEEZ! Security must be lapsing eh?
>
> Now THAT's a woman you should want to emulate...
Why not? Do you have a problem with battered and abused women with
children at risk? Were you one of those judgmental, holier-than-thou,
"fans" who made such a fuss about Pammy? Well, I guess she's accustomed
to a certain amount of jealousy from the uglier-than-hunk magnets huh?
>Still, you can't send an autorgraphed photo etc though the Internet...
>it wouldn't be the same.
Actuallly you could - Michael could actually "sign" his photographs and
send them via the internet - would save a lot of time and money. I
agree it wouldn't beat being one of those "insane" fans who wait on
loooong lines at signings just to have him personally autograph their
goodies. But in the interests of saving time - and money! (we don't
want to forget how important that is now do we? <VBG>) it might be worth
a try.
>Yes, the Internet can be used very well as a vehicle to communicate
with fans, (see Styxworld.com for an excellent >example)
"Styxworld" eh? Sound devillish to me...<LOL> What fans didya have in
mind - Hollywood hellions traversing the river Styx into Hades? Do we
really want our Saint to go chasing after such sinners? Oh, dear, oh
dear - wouldn't that just be too "PA" for your delicate sensitivities?
>and I believe that is what Michael's fan club is working towards.
Really?! How interesting...and of course, we know that you are "in the
know" about such things. We can look forward to Fan Factory morphing
into some Devil's Den then? Wow! Now that's where we'd all llike to
plunk our hard-earned dollars!!! NOT!!!
>But you still need a physical office, real people to do the work and
>to pay the electric, ISP and other bills. You still need money to run
>a fan club.
>
NAH! Hell's full of flames to keep the home fires burning! As for
"real" people - hire a few of those "insane" fans and give them
something better to do with their time than chasing Michael Bolton
around like a bunch of sick puppies <ROFL> Oh, yeah - and those pesky
electric bills that the Maestro runs up burning all that midnight oil.
I hear he's a real night owl! Better tell the "new" FANny Farm to get a
loan. Ask the scalpers - they owe us!!!
>
> Here we go again... more irrational rantings. I knew it wouldn't be
> long. And how go the lawsuits you filed ? Oh that's right... there
> never were any suits... just more rantings.
>
Ya know, the lawsuits are going just fine and dandy as a matter of fact
- ALL of them. Why heck, I'm even suing the lawyer for breach of
contract! And how's this for a Divine Angelic Synchronicity - I just
happened upon an honest lawyer and her speciality is INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY LAW! Now isn't that just the darndest coincidence?! Praise
God (literally and figuratively!) It's a small world after all!
>
> Like I said, there is no password to the new site. All of the
> information there is open to anyone who would like to read it. It's
> up-to-date and very professionally put together. ALL fans are
> encouraged to visit. It's only you who are telling people no to.
>
I'm so pleased that they did away with those pesky passwords. What's
good for one fan is certainly good for ALL fans. Mind passing on the
new fansite's URL? It might help some lurkers to meander on over and
learn more about our Hero. I must have missed something - when did I
tell people NOT to visit any fan site - official or otherwise. Hey, I
put everyone's site on MY web site - unlike some other people who prefer
exclusivity in their referrals to other MB fan sites.
>
> Actually I responded to Lori. The only reason I respond to your posts
> is so that people won't think you have any real facts and hopefully
> they will contact the fan club for the truth and not believe what you
> have to say.
Let's taka a look at the record shall we? Uh, who was it that predicted
events would turn out the way they did? Hmmmm??? Don't see any of
YOUR predictions, or theirs, for that matter coming true. All of their
negative PR went for naught - as did all of your bragging rights to the
"truth." "By their fruits you will know them" and my fruits are
abundant with FACTS not fictions even if you don't choose to agree with
them. I suggest that you listen to what I have to say - it's coming
from The Source of all Sources - the realm in which the Maestro is
inspired and creates. Ah, but then again what do such realms mean to
those whose minds are set in the prison cells of egotism? The Truth is
he wants to be our "Soul Provider." Get it? Michael Bolton ain't in it
for the money...
>If you'll notice Linda, most of the people who used to
> post here have stopped because this is no longer a place people can
> freely communicate without being flamed or have you rant on about
> topics that aren't being discussed.
>
Well, then, what accounts for your "free postings?" As for topics not
being discussed, you have always had a problem talking TO Michael Bolton
rather than merely ABOUT him. You treat him like some third party
passer-by who just happens to make music to entertain you in your saner
moments - those moments when you aren't gadding about meddling in
affairs that don't concern you. I haven't flamed anyone. You reacted
and I responded. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen
and leave it to the cooks who don't spoil the broth but who inspire the
gravy.
>
> I'm glad you have some pleasure over the posts, and it's truly sad no
> one can stop you from posting your rants and lies. That is testament
> of the time we live in.
>
I wouldn't define it as pleasure - amusement might be a better term.
And I can just see the Maestro LHAO reading them! I always aim to
please!!! As for lies - let's look to the liar herein - what was that
you were saying about "End of conversation. Period." Wasn't that it?
Was it the "end of your conversation" or the springboard for yet another
volley of Linda Lashing? Remember where it got you last time. Let me
make this prediction - you'll be eating crow and humble pie before the
cock crows thrice!!! ; )
>
> Actually, no they don't. There are several newsgroups (most of which
> popped up as an attempt to let fans have a place to meet and gather
> infomration without you there to spew your insanity), but no splinter
> fan clubs. And even if there were ... they wouldn't be officially
> supported by Michael and since that is the most important factor in a
> club (isn't that what YOU said?) I would assume you would want to be
> a part of the official club. But then ... you obviously don't care
> enough.
>
I'm a member of several of those groups - many of them begun by Terrie.
She and I have oft discussed the possibility of starting our own fan
club. And how do YOU know whether or not Michael would/wouldn't support
any other fan groups? The word "official" has a rather intimidating
ring to it - very un-Michael Bolton if you ask me. If you remember,
like I do, the Maestro is quite the "rebel" with a cause. How long did
it take for him to let go of his locks? I'm not sure he could be very
happy these days what with GC members unhappy. After all, the Gold Club
was the FIRST baby - it will always hold a special place in his heart
and in ours. Ah, but onwards and upwards to that profit making
replacement - what is it going to be called now? On Styxdom is it?
When can we expect the big "move" to bigger and better from biggest and
best?
>
> Even though that wasn't the topic of the discussion, I agree, fans
> are very important part of the industry. And, Michael has done
> nothing to use or abuse his fans that I've seen. In fact, from
> everything I have heard he's kind and gracious and respectful of the
> fans. Sad that you would make that accusation.
>
Oh, fans weren't the topic of the discussion either. Let me see - we
can't talk about Michael Bolton - HE's not the topic of discussion. And
we can't talk about FANS - they're not the topic of discussion. But
then you do make him the topic of discussion by accusing him of "doing
nothing to use or abuse his fans." Now who is off the topic of THAT
discussion? The topic therein was FAN FACTORY, not Michael Bolton. Now
there's a real twisting of words - a Gordian knot if you will; we'll
need our Hero Himself to untie that tongue-twister. You may wish to
read other posters as regards their desires, to wit: they do not wish to
be considered "consumers" but FANS. HERE! HERE! Well put! We aren't
profit-making ventures - we're human beings who share an admiration for
Michael Bolton.
Oh, you mean that you don't KNOW that he's kind, gracious and
respectful? Well, I DO KNOW THAT and I've been telling you all that ad
infinitum - through all of the negative PR, all of the adverse
publicity, all of the "absensces" where some hearts grew fonder and
others took the "out of sight, out of mind" route. I've stood by my man
for many years now - and by his fans - against a rising tide of
subjective exclusivists brandishing the vendetta of the divide and
conquer theory proposed by "management." Just who IS this amorphous
entity anyway? Have we names and faces to which to attach them? The
Gold Club may be gone but I'm still here - more enlightened and in love
than ever! You should only know Michael Bolton the way I know him. To
know him is to love him. Then again, you're so busy scheming and
blaming, you have little time left for lovingkindness. Your accusations
fall upon deaf ears. Everyone knows where I stood, stand and will
continue to remain when it comes to Michael Bolton - ESPECIALLY The
Maestro Himself. Twist all you like, Pig-mail-eon - you can't distort
the Truth! and it is the "truth that makes you whole" and holy. I
haven't noticed your halo shining lately; must be those horns getting in
the way of a good cleansing purification! Try confession; it's good for
the soul. Less playing, more praying - works every time!<LOL>
>
> Again you put words in my mouth. I think fan clubs are great and I
> think the official fan club for Michael Bolton is wonderful. It's you
> who is maligning the club, not me. And besides, the emails I've
> recieved have only been supportive of my opinion. Only you are being
> negative and you are the only one attempting a personal attack.
>
Well, then I guess those words made a lasting impression on others who
agree with me - and there are those who do ya know! I am not maligning
"the club," I seek only a redress of grievances for the FANS who have
been aggrieved by poor business practices. "If the shoe fits, wear it"
and stop trying to shove it onto others' feet!
FACT: I responded in kind to your posts about "Gold Club Concerns."
It's a free country and a free usenet group. I do have that right - the
same right that I accord you. "I may not agree with what you have to
say but I will defend to t he death your right to say it." I live it;
you loathe it. According to you, the only people worth
hearing/accepting opinions from are those who agree with you. Every
person is a teacher; you can learn from your enemies as well as your
friends. Turn those negatives into positives!
>
> Well, although I CHOSE to join the Platinum Club to further support
> Michael and his career, I recieved the same attentive service before
> I joined the PC. The people at Michael's fan club have always been
> and are currently very hardworking dedicated people who truly care
> about the fans and the artist we support.
>
No one is questionning their kindness, generosity, attentive service or
hard work. The problem seems to lie with business acumen or lack
thereof. There is no shame or guilt involved. Mistakes can be
corrected; they should not be perpetuated at the expense of the fan
base. That is not "profitable" for either fan or star.
>
> Yes, Michael chose the fan club management. So again, you are wrong.
>
And of course you have the appropriate data/facts to back up that
allegation? Mind printing them here for us to see? Who, what, when,
where, why, how - ya know - the FACTS...just the FACTS. How can one be
right or wrong with anything more than your customary "assumptions" and
allegations without benefit of THE FACTS? Weedle your way out of that
one - oh Omnicient One with so much knowledge of Michael Bolton who
doesn't actually "know" Michael Bolton but who thinks he's kind,
generous, and yadayadayada...guess you didn't get that "clue" yet eh?
>
> Well insane fans is something you should know a lot about... pot...
> kettle.
>
Hey, ya don't see me chasing all over the place hounding the man - or
falling over myself to get his attention - or even paying dues to join
his club in hopes that such sychophant-like behavior will merit his
favor. I don't need to do that. I am who am and he knows who I am.
I'd get the smile, the point, the look, the love -without all the
trappings. You see love doesn't depend upon such trivia. He knows
that! "You ain't got nothin if you ain't got love..." If you want to
love and support the man, then embrace the principles he stands for and
live by them. He's a "teamwork gets results" "united we stand" "you can
make a difference" kind of guy. That's not the impression his fan club,
or YOU, are giving the public. Got the picture? Now watch it get
developed...Who encouraged the fans to share their Michael Moments? Who
spearheaded an on-line campaign to raise funds and awareness for This
Close for Cancer Research? Who collected all the information, posts,
pictures, she could find and shared her infamous Bolton Boosters with
one and all? Who inspired other fans to create web sites and share
their dreams and fantasies? Who healed? Who gave and expected no
return on her "investment?" Who dared to "tell it like it is" even at
the risk of the Maestro's displeasure? Who really cared enough to speak
TO him rather than just ABOUT him publicly and privately - at the risk
of being called "insane" for being a fan with a caring heart. Who
inspired others higher? I'm not here of my own accord. I'm here by the
grace of God to call His Children home. His Children know "his voice"
and they know who truly loves them for WHO they are, not WHAT they are.
Not for one minute should anyone forget that one of Michael Bolton's
greatest gifts is his SOUL. I proudly share that soul and will continue
to share it. THAT's where the love and support begin - in the heart,
NOT in the pocketbook! Learn the lesson inherent in this "mistake" -
your personal cruciixion places Yours Truly in the company of such
"insane" lovers as Jesus Christ and yes, Michael Bolton - a man who
lives modestly and loves magnanimously. Where do you find his love - in
what he has accomplished/accumulated or in the treasure that he is and
the gifts he so generously shares? What makes Michael Bolton a "RICH"
man? His bank account allegedly gleaned from his profit-making fan club
or from his Soul? I think the answers are quite obvious even to the
most obtuse amongst us. "By their fruits you will khow them" and he has
not one, but TWO new fruits about to be released. You already know how
I feel about "VINTAGE" - it's that aged quality that makes for fine wine.
>
> Funny, the emails I've received have been very supportive and where
> are all the other people I'm supposidly antagonizing? They aren't
> posting to support you. In fact, I've NEVER seen anyone posting to
> support anything you have said except phantom posters who never were
> real people.
>
Let's not mince words, or try to justify how wondeful a fan you are. We
all know they don't come any more "perfect" or appreciative, or blessed,
or intelligent, or business-wise or holier than thou (GEEZ you gotta
watch out for those Pam Anderson-types though eh? They sure could give
you good guys a run for your money when it comes to attracting rock
stars! <ROFL) However, regarding those "secret emails" to which you
allude - How do WE know that they even exist? All we have is YOUR word
on it and we all know how much veracity there is in your words...Lu Ann
- are you a phantom? Oh, no that's right - you're just one of those
"consumers!" Margaret - are you still out there across the pond? do
you feel any better now that Meri has cleared matters up for us? And
Terrie - don't know if you are reading this but if you are - what are
your thoughts on the subject? And Lorraine - if you're finally back
on-line, I hope that you're reading this. Please give us all benefit of
your in-put on fan club preferred seating! Remember the time you went
up to the people in the front rows and asked them where they got their
tickets and they told you "at the box office?!" Not too many happy
campers in those preferred seats that night. Lest we forget, our fellow
BBs still over on the AOL board: Marty had mentioned the discussion on
the AOL board about the GC's demise. I don't suppose that ALL of those
fans were in favor of the fan club's decision. What too many are
failing to miss is that this airing of opinions is actually good for not
only the soul but for management and star as well. It gives all the
opportunity to put in their two-cents' worth. Without benefit of
everyone's thoughts, we are left only with one choice - and one is the
loneliest number...
I know the club management means well, but "the road to hell is paved
with good intentions." When a "tough decision" is made and it
backfires; it's time to rethink and revise. It's true that we can never
please all the people all the time but pleasing no one but management
isn't the answer either.
>
If a mistake was admittedly made, and fans lost in the process; then my
suggestion would be to correct the mistake not to pretend it never
happened or save eggy faces by saying "I understand why it happened."
Given your level of "understanding" that is not difficult to achieve.
If all fans were so complacent and servile, we might all expect to have
our dues raised to $50 a year for the added perk of additional seats to
non-existent concerts for the privilege of watching a man we know
nothing about. Is that supporting Michael Bolton? Is paying dues what
support means to you? Moving upward is only possible when one's head is
not stuck in the ground like some immobilized ostrich. No one learns in
a vacuum, much less can earn a good living trying to exist in one.
>> have smoking gun - will travel!!!
> Veiled threat? Will you ever seek the professional help you so
> obvilously need?
>
No - Double entendre. Oh, I forgot - you are also more "youthful" than
the rest of us and probably either have forgotten or never heard of the
tv show "Have Gun - will travel." Just a little play on words there -
not to be taken literally except by those of course whose minds are
forever gutter-bound and who are plagued by guilt complexes. Include
"projectionistic behavior" with that! Some of us writers are understood
by the more literate amongst us. For the illiterate, might I suggest a
return to school and the rudiments of the English language for starters.
Heck, you just might learn something!!! Been there...done that - summa
cum laude! Ah, those sweet fruits...tarry not lest ye be tarried with!
And remember: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to
speak and remove all doubt." You are unpeeling those doubts like layers
of that proverbial onion. But consider please, what this might do as
regards the forthcoming gifts from the Maestro? Let's not permit our
enthusiasm to be dampened by the evil spirited ill-intentioned and
unfounded opinions of the opinionated. <3 Linda
Linda Gallo
the horse has gotten out" isn't it? <VBG> This is one GC member that
received fewer and fewer fliers and communications over the years. Was
that flier mailed to the same group that was privvy to the infamous
haircut scoop or to all members? Has the change created the desired
increase in number of Platinum Club members? <3 Linda
Linda Gallo
enough, and perhaps even profitable enough, to permit the club greater
leeway in offering more tempting perks in future? Would it be possible
to sell subscriptions to the newsletter for those who choose not to
avail themselves of club membership or extra preferred seating? <3 Linda
Linda Gallo
one-time LIFETIME membership fee. That was the club's contractual
arrangement with its members at the time of its inception. Whether the
terms of that agreement proved unworkable or required changing, the club
is still bound contractually to live up to its obligations as advertised
- i.e. to provide the services it agreed to provide for that one-time
LIFETIME membership. In any contractual arrangement, particularly when
money changes hands, BOTH sides need to be appraised of any pending
changes. Management can't arbitrarily and capriciously make decisions
that affect paying customers without first consulting those customers.
How much more so when those customers are people an artist depends upon
- the fans. When Fans Rule/Fan Factory took over, they accepted the
contractual responsibilities and decisions of the clubs' former
managers. At that point in time, if they were aware - and in such
take-overs a full disclosure of all outstanding
costs/expenditures/income, etc. is contained within the purchase
agreement, they should have had their accountants determine whether or
not they could afford to carry a loss leader like the Gold Club. In
exchange for the "profits" they could make from yearly dues, they would
still have the numbers of fans who would be purchasing the records,
tickets, merchandise and bringing in more fans via word-of-mouth. There
is always a trade-off with a loss leader but often management finds that
it pays for itself in other ways (soft dollars as opposed to hard
dollars). I doubt that if GC members had been confronted honestly about
the situation, they would have balked at minimal yearly dues to continue
receiving their benefits. As someone else had suggested, there could
have been "levels" of membership/dues. We cannot gloss over
management's responsibility to uphold its end of the contract - whether
the club is considered defunct or not. That constitutes a "breach of
contract" that, if the former fans get riled enough, could result in a
class action suit for breach of contract. I think Lu Ann's point was
very well taken: we aren't "consumers," we are fans and would appreciate
being treated as such. Michael Bolton deserves no less! <3 Linda
Hill
should be "for profit", they should be for promoting the star and providing
a link between the fans and that star.
Actually, now I think about it, I can't quite see how arranging special fan
club preferential seats at concerts actually costs the fan club money, apart
from admin costs??
Margaret in Kent
"LAJ" <lu_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f12f10f6.03073...@posting.google.com...
Anna4374
writes:
>Would it be safe to assume then that the yearly dues are sufficient
>enough, and perhaps even profitable enough, to permit the club greater
>leeway in offering more tempting perks in future? Would it be possible
>to sell subscriptions to the newsletter for those who choose not to
>avail themselves of club membership or extra preferred seating?
There are definitely more things on the horizon for members of the PC. And,
no.....the only way to receive the newsletter (which I might add is now in full
color) is to join the PC.....just one of those perks you mentioned.
Anna4374
<micr...@clara.co.uk> writes:
>Actually, now I think about it, I can't quite see how arranging special fan
>club preferential seats at concerts actually costs the fan club money, apart
>from admin costs??
Hmmm........and THAT money comes from????
Meri
> Brick walls are less "reactive" to the punches than the hard heads whose
> minds are made up and don't wish to be confused with facts
> nor riddled with rhymes. Figure that one out! <LOL> That ought to
> keep your little addled brain busy for a while! <VBG>
Nope, figured it out right away. Sorry. Wrong again.
> And you have that contract in hand as you write, eh? Oh, so many
> Michael Bolton experts there are to "defend" him from his obstreperous
> fans.
No I don't, but I have seen copies of several of his contracts and
even if I hadn't, I trust that neither Micahel nor his representatives
would lie about the contract.
>His own Mother sat several rows behind us at a concert in LA (we had
our "preferred seating" behind the scalpers I guess
Did you ever stop to think that's where she wanted to sit? Usually
artists are given seats within the 6-10th rows to give out to friends
and family. Maybe Michael's mother simply doesn't like the front rows.
The venues control what seats within the first 15 rows they give the
fan club, not the fan club. It is sad that scalpers and brokers and
VIPs have to be in front of the fans, but that's the way the industry
works. It happens at all venues at ever show from the opera at the Met
to the smallest venue in the smallest town.
> Oh, I see, if you win tickets it's okay to "steal money from Michael"
> then is that it?
HUH? How does winning tickets take any money out Michael's pocket? The
tickets are given to radio stations and other promoters as a form of
advertisement for the show.
>Of course, YOU have never had to do that
> because YOU have been so fortunate over these years to have the best
> seats in the house. I doubt it was Michael's a** that you kissed for
> that "perk." What is it they say, "It's not what you know but WHO you
> know..."
Actually I've tried to win tickets but have never won. The fan club
seats I've received over the years I've gotten just like everyone
else. I've never kissed anyone's a** for the priviledge because like
any other fan club member I get the "perk" with my membership. And
they HAVE been the best seats in the house, just like the other fan
club members get through the arrangement and like the contract
requires, they've always been within the first 15 rows. I am simply
grateful that I dont' have to sit in row XX or YY because I'm buying
tickets though the fan club instead of Ticketmaster.
> But unlike me, you would have the readership believe that you speak from
> a position of authority on such matters.
I never claimed to be anything more than a fan who reads and
understands and believes the information put out by the official
sources.
> "Tis not I
> doing the bashing here - try rereading your own posts. You make them
> look like a bunch of blood suckers out for a feast of Bolton Buddies!
> Is THAT the image I'm portraying?
Yes it is. It certainly isn't the image I'm portraying. I am
portraying a group of hard-working, kind, gracious, generous and
professional people who truly care about the fans, yet MUST make
enough money to support their business. I certainly don't think ANYONE
is getting rich off the fan club.
> When there is no other club to compare it with, how can the results be
> any different current, former, future? Hey - it's the only game in town
> ain't it? Do we have a choice?
Why would you want or need another choice when you have Michael's
official stamp of approval on the fan club which already exists? A fan
club which offers the most accurate and complete infomation possible.
Why would you want anything more? (by the way ... that's a rhetorical
question)
> Would you be so kind as to share that announcement with the rest of us
> befuddled BB's please. Someone? Anyone? Got any responses to this
> latest verbal grenade?
Anna already did. It was several years ago that I remember reading the
information. I'm sure I have the announcement somewhere but I really
don't have time to dig it out of storage to post it here. I personally
believe Anna.
> I've heard rumors of some fans who stalk him from
> venue to venue to venue.
Stalking is different than attending several shows in a tour. Again,
check your definition of terms Linda. Most of the fans who go see
Michael in concert, whether it be one show or many, don't think he's
akin to God, like SOME people do. Most of us see him a man, an
extremely talented man who is generous and kind to his fans, but a
human just like the rest of us.
> Why not? Do you have a problem with battered and abused women with
> children at risk?
No, I don't. But I would rather not emulate someone like Pamela
Anderson. That's my personal opinion.
>Were you one of those judgmental, holier-than-thou,
> "fans" who made such a fuss about Pammy?
Nope, it wasn't me. Sorry, wrong again Linda.
>Well, I guess she's accustomed
> to a certain amount of jealousy from the uglier-than-hunk magnets huh?
First, I'm not jealous of Pamela Anderson. and secondly, at least I
don't go around calling people who I don't know and have never met and
know nothing about names. Who is being judgemental and mean-spirited
now?
> Actuallly you could - Michael could actually "sign" his photographs and
> send them via the internet - would save a lot of time and money.
It wouldn't be a true autograph Linda. If someone collects autographs
they want a "real" one. But even if the autographs were sent out via
email, that still doesn't answer the mail from the thousands and
thousands of fans who DON'T have a home computer. Now who is
separating the fans into groups? Don't the fans without computer or
computer access deserve the same good service as those of us who do
have access?
> "Styxworld" eh? Sound devillish to me...
It would sound that way to you. It's only evil to someone who can't
see reality. FYI, Styx is a very NON-devish rock group. I was only
using their site as an example. Why don't you try Journeymusic.com
instead.
> Ya know, the lawsuits are going just fine and dandy .....
Yeah... sure.
> > Like I said, there is no password to the new site. All of the
> > information there is open to anyone who would like to read it. It's
> > up-to-date and very professionally put together. ALL fans are
> > encouraged to visit. It's only you who are telling people no to.
> >
> Mind passing on the new fansite's URL?
http://www.michaelboltonclub.com
It might help some lurkers to meander on over and
> learn more about our Hero. I must have missed something - when did I
> tell people NOT to visit any fan site - official or otherwise.
YOU said you weren't going there.
> Well, then, what accounts for your "free postings?"
But then I've had to be flamed and attacked by you now didn't I?
>As for topics not
> being discussed, you have always had a problem talking TO Michael Bolton
> rather than merely ABOUT him.
Well, since he isn't here and doesn't read this site (by his own
admission), how can I talk TO him?
>You treat him like some third party
> passer-by who just happens to make music to entertain you in your saner
> moments - those moments when you aren't gadding about meddling in
> affairs that don't concern you.
What affairs are those? Someone asked my opinion and I gave it. How
can I be "meddling" when this is an open forum? Again, you make no
sense.
>I haven't flamed anyone.
That's all you do for anyone who has an opinion, idea, thought or word
that differs from your warped sense of reality.
> Remember where it got you last time. Let me
> make this prediction - you'll be eating crow and humble pie before the
> cock crows thrice!!! ; )
Huh? You have no idea what you are talking about. Last time? Again....
no sense.
> And how do YOU know whether or not Michael would/wouldn't support
> any other fan groups? The word "official" has a rather intimidating
> ring to it - very un-Michael Bolton if you ask me.
Well, since Michael set up an official fan club years ago, I would
assume that he would want there to be one official place where all of
his fans could go to get the correct, accurate and timely information
about his career.
> Oh, you mean that you don't KNOW that he's kind, gracious and
> respectful?
Well, he's always been that way to me. I can only assume he's like
that all of the time, that's all I meant. Again you turn it all
around.
> I am not maligning
> "the club,"
Yes you are.
> > Yes, Michael chose the fan club management. So again, you are wrong.
> >
> And of course you have the appropriate data/facts to back up that
> allegation? Mind printing them here for us to see?
I'm sorry, I was told in confidence. I know you'll make that out to be
some sort of evil thing, but the person who told me knows and I
believe them. You can chose to believe me or not.
> I am who am and he knows who I am.
Well, I'm darn sure you're right on that one.....
> Who encouraged the fans to share their Michael Moments? ::::clipping for the sake of brevity and the sanity of anyone still reading Linda's rants::::: Who > inspired others higher?<
Oh yeah, right, it's you and only you. PULEEASE! Fans were fans on the
Internet and off long before you became a fan. You are NOT the only
one out there supporting Michael and you are maligning the very club
that is working day and night to do so.
> Let's not mince words, or try to justify how wondeful a fan you are.
I don't have to justify anything because, unlike some people, I never
claimed to be a "better" fan than anyone else. Each person does what
she or he can to support an artist. That's all.
> However, regarding those "secret emails" to which you
> allude - How do WE know that they even exist? All we have is YOUR word
> on it and we all know how much veracity there is in your words...
That's right, all you have is my word, because I don't share private
emails on a public site.....sorry. Believe me or don't Linda, I don't
care either way. I think people can judge for themselves who is the
rational, honest person here.
> Heck, you just might learn something!!! Been there...done that - summa
> cum laude!
Sure... and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. You have no idea
what my educational background is. And... if I were truly illiterate,
how could I be writing this and reading your long-winded, fantasy
filled, irrational posts?
You know what, I bet you can't let anyone else have the last word.
Anyone want to give me some odds?
Meri
Linda Gallo
Meri wrote:
>> Linda responds: Brick walls are less "reactive" to the punches than
>> the hard heads whose minds are made up and don't wish to be
>> confused with facts nor riddled with rhymes. Figure that one out!
>> <LOL> That ought to keep your little addled brain busy for a
>> while! <VBG>
> Nope, figured it out right away. Sorry. Wrong again.
>
Linda responds:
I'm so happy that YOU understood it because I wrote it deliberately NOT
to make any sense whatever; knowing full well, of course, that YOU would
attempt the impossible - to make sense of nonsense. "Twas brillig..."
<ROFL>
> No I don't, but I have seen copies of several of his contracts and
> even if I hadn't, I trust that neither Micahel nor his
> representatives would lie about the contract.
>
YOU have "seen" copies of private and confidential contracts between
Michael Bolton and his employers? That's interesting. And even if you
"didn't" (note the "even if I didn't...") you trust Michael (not that
you KNOW him of course or have even spoken intimately about his personal
affairs as he is wont to keep them "personal and confidential," you have
spoken with his "representatives?" Just which "representative" has
taken it upon themselves to divulge confidential information about "The
Boss?" Wait - ton't tell me - I have a pretty good idea of who that is.
That's probably why she isn't "representing" him anymore.
>
> Did you ever stop to think that's where she wanted to sit?
>
And did YOU ever consider the possibility that maybe she would have been
flattered to sit closer? There's a 50-50 chance either way. Why don't
you ask her next time you see her.
> Usually artists are given seats within the 6-10th rows to give out to
>
friends
> and family.
Another one of your representative's tidbits? That would leave the fan
club 5 rows...hmmmm...let me see, so many fans, so few rows...
> Maybe Michael's mother simply doesn't like the front rows.
Then again, maybe she does.
> The venues control what seats within the first 15 rows they give the
> fan club, not the fan club.
You mean that wasn't stipulated in his contract - you know the one that
you saw, or if you didn't see it, that representative friend of yours
told you about?
> It is sad that scalpers and brokers and VIPs have to be in front of
> the fans, but that's the way the industry works. It happens at all
> venues at ever
show from the opera at the Met
> to the smallest venue in the smallest town.
>
Maybe the scalpers and the brokers get priority treatment because they
have "business arrangements" with the venues - they do supply them with
the business of SEVERAL artists. Theirs is a profit-making business.
Those VIP's sure like their "perks," too ya know! I hate to be the one
to break this to you, oh, resident Business Expert, but venues are in
business to make money. Think of them as super-duper "fan clubs" (by
YOUR definition).
>
>> Oh, I see, if you win tickets it's okay to "steal money from
>> Michael" then is that it?
> HUH? How does winning tickets take any money out Michael's pocket?
> The tickets are given to radio stations and other promoters as a form
> of advertisement for the show.
>
Well, DUH, Meri, the tickets the stations are giving out FREE mean fewer
PAYING seats for the artist. Of course, if one looks at the soft
dollar advantage of such a move, then one can understand how these
contests can actually profit an artist in ways other than hard dollars.
Are you still with me?! Now let's take it one little teensy step
further: in order for FANS to "advertise" to others about their
favorite artist, perhaps their fan club might take such things into
consideration before dropping their "non-profit-making" loss leader of a
club eh? Sometimes if you "give a little" you can "gain a lot!" You
just made my point for me. Thank you.
> Actually I've tried to win tickets but have never won. The fan club
> seats I've received over the years I've gotten just like everyone
> else. I've never kissed anyone's a** for the priviledge because like
> any other fan club member I get the "perk" with my membership. And
> they HAVE been the best seats in the house, just like the other fan
> club members get through the arrangement and like the contract
> requires, they've always been within the first 15 rows. I am simply
> grateful that I dont' have to sit in row XX or YY because I'm buying
> tickets though the fan club instead of Ticketmaster.
>
First 15 rows of WHAT section? Orchestra pit? If XX or YY was good
enough for Michael's mother, why wouldn't it be good enough for you?
Whazzamatta don't like the front row?
>
>> But unlike me, you would have the readership believe that you speak
>> from a position of authority on such matters.
> I never claimed to be anything more than a fan who reads and
> understands and believes the information put out by the official
> sources.
>
Oh, dear; oh, dear - here we go again: don't believe everything
(everyone) you see and hear. Tsk, tsk...I thought you'd learned that
lesson by now. BTW the rest of us "fans" haven't been so "informed" that
our gold club was on its way out, much less been privvy to confidential
information about Michael Bolton's contract. Where did you find this
"official information?"
>
>> "Tis not I doing the bashing here - try rereading your own posts.
>> You make them look like a bunch of blood suckers out for a feast of
>> Bolton Buddies! Is THAT the image I'm portraying?
> Yes it is. It certainly isn't the image I'm portraying. I am
> portraying a group of hard-working, kind, gracious, generous and
> professional people who truly care about the fans, yet MUST make
> enough money to support their business. I certainly don't think
> ANYONE is getting rich off the fan club.
>
In theory perhaps but not in practice. In your attempts to justify the
demise of the Gold Club, you have put your proverbial foot in your
verbose mouth - again. The mere allusion to the club being a
"profit-making" venture was neither a wise nor professional portrayal of
kind, hard-working, gracious, generous, professional behavior. Of
course, if the professionals that YOU know can make a profit on fans by
being gracious and generous whilst stabbing them in the back, then
perhaps your portrayal was more accurate. I'm accustomed to dealing
with honest people who correct mistakes; they don't perpetuate them via
the sour grapevine.
>
>> When there is no other club to compare it with, how can the results
>> be any different current, former, future? Hey - it's the only game
>> in town ain't it? Do we have a choice?
> Why would you want or need another choice when you have Michael's
> official stamp of approval on the fan club which already exists? A
> fan club which offers the most accurate and complete infomation
> possible. Why would you want anything more? (by the way ... that's a
> rhetorical question)
>
Why would I want a democracy instead of a monarchy? If the information
offered was accurate and complete, this discussion would never have
occurred in the first place! That "stamp of approval" is only as good
as the fan base is large. If they continue to lose fans, no reputable
artist wouldn't continue to endorse such representatives. You seem to
forget that the FAN club is for FANS. There's no need for ANY
information - accurate, complete or otherwise without the FANS! Get it?
>
>> Would you be so kind as to share that announcement with the rest of
>> us befuddled BB's please. Someone? Anyone? Got any responses to
>> this latest verbal grenade?>
> Anna already did. It was several years ago that I remember reading
> the information. I'm sure I have the announcement somewhere but I
> really don't have time to dig it out of storage to post it here. I
> personally believe Anna.
>
Several years ago eh? What a selective memory you have! Odd that the
rest of us GC members don't seem to share that recollection. Was it
another of those privvy confidential tidbits your "representative"
friend disclosed? Must have been along the lines of the leak about
Michael cutting his hair - only the "select few" got that info.
>
>> I've heard rumors of some fans who stalk him from venue to venue to
>> venue.
> Stalking is different than attending several shows in a tour. Again,
> check your definition of terms Linda. Most of the fans who go see
> Michael in concert, whether it be one show or many, don't think he's
> akin to God, like SOME people do. Most of us see him a man, an
> extremely talented man who is generous and kind to his fans, but a
> human just like the rest of us.
>
Oh, fine. So I wasn't stalking" Michael then when I went to the LA
venue and was accused on this very newsgroup of "stalking" him? You
should have "defined the term" then Meri. As for God and Michael
Bolton, I do believe that you have benefit of my thoughts on BOTH - and
I might add - that is PROFESSIONAL benefit as I hold a BA in Religious
Studies and am very qualified to differentiate between the deity and
His/Her offspring. Do you regard him as a "man?" Then treat him, and
his fans, with more respect please. To be a "man" is not to be neither
superhuman nor subhuman. As for being a human "just like the rest of
"us" - speak for yourself. Fans can only hope that Michael Bolton is
NOT like you!
>> Why not? Do you have a problem with battered and abused women with
>> children at risk?
> No, I don't. But I would rather not emulate someone like Pamela
> Anderson. That's my personal opinion.
>
The choice is yours but know that there are others who are trying very
hard to do just that. Permit them their choices.
>
>> Were you one of those judgmental, holier-than-thou, "fans" who made
>> such a fuss about Pammy?
> Nope, it wasn't me. Sorry, wrong again Linda.
>
"Some people would rather be right than happy." Guess YOU are one of
them eh?! <VBG>
>
>> Well, I guess she's accustomed to a certain amount of jealousy from
>> the uglier-than-hunk magnets huh?
> First, I'm not jealous of Pamela Anderson. and secondly, at least I
> don't go around calling people who I don't know and have never met
> and know nothing about names. Who is being judgemental and
> mean-spirited now?
>
GEE - why don't you take YOUR own advice? You most assuredly DO go
around calling people you don't know (i.e. ME) names. Yeah, Meri WHO is
being judgmental and mean-spirited - now, then - always?! Hmmmm? Put
your big foot in your big mouth yet again! Tsk, tsk...
>> Actuallly you could - Michael could actually "sign" his photographs
>> and send them via the internet - would save a lot of time and
>> money.
> It wouldn't be a true autograph Linda. If someone collects autographs
> they want a "real" one. But even if the autographs were sent out via
> email, that still doesn't answer the mail from the thousands and
> thousands of fans who DON'T have a home computer. Now who is
> separating the fans into groups? Don't the fans without computer or
> computer access deserve the same good service as those of us who do
> have access?
>
A signature is a signature. For your "definition of terms," one might
assume that you mean the ink has yet to dry in order that you can
consider it a "real" autograph. Please take up the plight of those
without computers up with your "representative" of your "official fan
club" - we've been trying to get that point across to them for eons. I
heartily agree - the fans without computers certainly do deserve the
"same good service as those of us who do have access." Thanks once
again for making MY point...
>
>> "Styxworld" eh? Sound devillish to me...
> It would sound that way to you. It's only evil to someone who can't
> see reality. FYI, Styx is a very NON-devish rock group. I was only
> using their site as an example. Why don't you try Journeymusic.com
> instead.
>
I KNOW who Styx is and I also know who Journey is. Don't bother to fill
me in. I also KNOW what you meant. I was just having fun - apparently
at your simple-minded expense. I reiterate, "Ignorance is bliss."
>
>> Ya know, the lawsuits are going just fine and dandy .....>
> Yeah... sure.
>
I know that isn't coming from an "official representative," but it is,
however, coming from the "horse's mouth" and not from its a** - so you
are free as always to believe or not to believe (ah, that is the
question...)
>
> http://www.michaelboltonclub.com
>
See, now that wasn't so difficult was it? And you supported Michael
Bolton with that little tidbit - without so much as a penny changing
hands! That's the spirit! You can thank me later..
> YOU said you weren't going there.
>
I never said that. Check your FACTS please!
>
>> Well, then, what accounts for your "free postings?"
> But then I've had to be flamed and attacked by you now didn't I?
>
Do you consider it flaming and attacking to post your free opinion and
not to receive a response to those opinions? Are you living in a
vacuum? Do you not know that this is a FREE USENET group and that we
ALL have the freedom to express our opinions here? Remember what I said
about the kitchen - the heat - the cooks - the poison and the gravy...
>
>> As for topics not being discussed, you have always had a problem
>> talking TO Michael Bolton rather than merely ABOUT him.>
> Well, since he isn't here and doesn't read this site (by his own
> admission), how can I talk TO him?
>
He IS here and HE does read this site and by his own admission "any site
that mentions his name" - where do you think he gets HIS info from - his
"representatives?" Yeah, right Meri - you keep on believing that...the
rest of us know better and we don't even have an "official
representative" telling us what to think like you do!
>
>> You treat him like some third party passer-by who just happens to
>> make music to entertain you in your saner moments - those moments
>> when you aren't gadding about meddling in affairs that don't
>> concern you.>
> What affairs are those? Someone asked my opinion and I gave it. How
> can I be "meddling" when this is an open forum? Again, you make no
> sense.
>
Well, someone asked for "opinions" - not specifically YOURS. I gave
mine and am accused of flaming among other things. Yes, this is an open
forum - and I'm here to express MY opinions. Who is it that isn't
making sense? Go back and re-read your own posts.
>
>> I haven't flamed anyone.
>
Definition of terms please Meri - when you post it's your "opinion" that
is being expressed; and when I post, it's flaming eh? What accounts for
that do you suppose?
>
> That's all you do for anyone who has an opinion, idea, thought or
> word that differs from your warped sense of reality.
>
If that shoe fits, I'd suggest YOU wear it. I have a history as to the
favorable outcomes of MY opinions - how about you? Got anything to back
up those vapid ill-founded opinions other than your alleged emails and
"official representative(s)?"
>> Remember where it got you last time. Let me make this prediction -
>> you'll be eating crow and humble pie before the cock crows
>> thrice!!! ; )
> Huh? You have no idea what you are talking about. Last time?
> Again.... no sense.
>
A reference to Sacred Scripture. I should have known that it would go
right over your head. I reiterate - check my post about your selective
memory...it seems to be selecting again.
>
>> And how do YOU know whether or not Michael would/wouldn't support
>> any other fan groups? The word "official" has a rather
>> intimidating ring to it - very un-Michael Bolton if you ask me.
> Well, since Michael set up an official fan club years ago, I would
> assume that he would want there to be one official place where all of
> his fans could go to get the correct, accurate and timely
> information about his career.
>
Ya know for someone who gets all their "information" third-hand (Michael
-to manager/assistant - fan club), you sure do act like you know what
Michael did/didn't do and will do. As to the "correct, accurate and
timely information" about his career, let us not open the book on that
one. If you consider the announcement about his getting his star on the
Walk of Fame "timely," I suggest you check your dates. Do you consider
advertising for an album to be released on September 2nd "timely" in
July? I don't think so... seems more like an afterthought when compared
with the amount of time announcements about his golf games are released
to his fans (and they're not paying as much to watch him play golf as
they are at his concerts. GEE that doesn't sound like very good
business practice for a "profit-making" business does it?)
>
>> Oh, you mean that you don't KNOW that he's kind, gracious and
>> respectful?
> Well, he's always been that way to me. I can only assume he's like
> that all of the time, that's all I meant. Again you turn it all
> around.
>
Oh, of course. We should have known. He's always been that way to you
- all the times that you've personally met him and he's divulged all of
that personal information to you over cocktails and dinner. <VBG> Oh,
wait, that was his "official representative" wasn't it? <LOL>
>
>> I am not maligning "the club,"
> Yes you are.
>
I didn't call the club a "profit-making" venture - YOU did! That has to
have been the worse public maligning yet! My desire not to see these
hard-working, generous, kind individuals repeat a mistake is not
"maligning" them - it is attempting to HELP them and Michael Bolton.
>
>>> Yes, Michael chose the fan club management. So again, you are
>>> wrong.
>> And of course you have the appropriate data/facts to back up that
>> allegation? Mind printing them here for us to see?
> I'm sorry, I was told in confidence. I know you'll make that out to
> be some sort of evil thing, but the person who told me knows and I
> believe them. You can chose to believe me or not.
>
Oh, yeah, I forgot - Michael told you "in confidence" about it. Or was
that his "official representative" divulging more personal and
confidential information to the "fans" but not ALL of the fans? Was
that just to the fans on computer or was that a public statement to
those who don't have computers?
>
>> I am who am and he knows who I am.
> Well, I'm darn sure you're right on that one.....
>
You don't know HOW right! <LOL> and I don't need any "official
representative" either!
>
>> Who encouraged the fans to share their Michael Moments?
>> ::::clipping for the sake of brevity and the sanity of anyone still
>> reading Linda's rants::::: Who > inspired others higher?<
> Oh yeah, right, it's you and only you. PULEEASE! Fans were fans on
> the Internet and off long before you became a fan. You are NOT the
> only one out there supporting Michael and you are maligning the very
> club that is working day and night to do so.
>
I'm not saying there weren't any fans before - or after me. That wasn't
my point. I didn't imply that I am the only one out here supporting
Michael - I said and I reiterate - TEAMWORK gets results - not dividing
to conquer the fan base. Earth to Meri: the "fan club" is the FANS, not
the administration. They are not our "elected representatives" - they
are paid employees of the man we admire and they are supposed to be
representing him favorably to ALL fans - not the select few as you have
made all-too-apparent by your references to confidences being divulged
to you personally. That is NOT the way to engender teamwork - to gather
a diverse group of people together under the banner of supporting
Michael Bolton.
>
>> Let's not mince words, or try to justify how wondeful a fan you
>> are.
> I don't have to justify anything because, unlike some people, I never
> claimed to be a "better" fan than anyone else. Each person does what
> she or he can to support an artist. That's all.
>
Well, gee, Meri, it seems to me what with all your "official
representative" divulging so much confidential information you to, one
might not get the impression that you feel somewhat "superior" to the
fans and even to Michael Bolton who is as you stated "just like the rest
of us..." Does your idea of support entitle you to rip the pedestal out
from under the man and make him appear a fool because that is the way
YOU appear?
>
>> However, regarding those "secret emails" to which you allude - How
>> do WE know that they even exist? All we have is YOUR word on it
>> and we all know how much veracity there is in your words...
> That's right, all you have is my word, because I don't share private
> emails on a public site.....sorry. Believe me or don't Linda, I don't
> care either way. I think people can judge for themselves who is the
> rational, honest person here.
>
Oh, Lord - I'm laughing so hard I can't contain myself - are you even
suggesting, much less positing, that YOU might be the rational, honest
person here? Just try ONE post - just ONE - where you don't contradict
yourself, make yourself appear the simplest of the simple minded, and
otherwise attempt to raise yourself to the level of "human" by lumping
the rest of humanity into your pathetically limited definition!
>
>> Heck, you just might learn something!!! Been there...done that -
>> summa cum laude!
> Sure... and I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. You have no idea
> what my educational background is. And... if I were truly
> illiterate, how could I be writing this and reading your long-winded,
> fantasy filled, irrational posts?
>
Hey - I've got my diploma - ya know the REAL diploma with the signatures
in REAL ink - stating so. As to what you can do with that Bridge in
Brooklyn, I have several suggestions but we're trying to keep this
newsgroup fit for ALL of its readers...my Dear Meri - trust me, I know
an illiterate when I see/read one. You can be certain the other
literatti amongst us can, too. <ROFL> I am now doubled up from
laughing to the point of getting cramps!!! MAESTRO! Are you having a
good laugh?! GOOD! Laughter is the best medicine! Thank you, Meri for
providing us with the "joke of the day."
> You know what, I bet you can't let anyone else have the last word.
> Anyone want to give me some odds?
>
Ah, but it wasn't I who posted, "End of conversation.Period." You did
that - oh, wait, I'm forgetting about your selective memory. What
happened, didn't your official representative give you any confidential
information regarding Michael's thoughts on the "last word?"
Hmmmm...she must be slipping...See ya later alligator! (Now watch this:
Meri's next post will accuse me of calling her an "alligator!") <3 Linda
LAJ
You said:
> Hmmm........and THAT money comes from????
I'm so sorry, but I honestly can't see how my GC membership has
incurred any costs to Fan Factory. I haven't received a single fan
club communication since Fans Rule took the reins, so printing/postal
costs are out. If my personal information is in some Fan Factory
managed database application ... I'm a programmer ... I know how to
setup and run dbases ... they aren't time or cost hogs once they're up
and running ... and take minimal management skills afterwards. Now,
if Fan Factory is running a product, say, like Oracle, and they're
paying a skilled Oracle guy to run their dbase, then a significant
cost would be incurred with this type of application. If this is the
case, then my question would be 'is this a necessary expense for fans?
Can't we downgrade database apps so that fans pay less for dbase
service?' In fact, were fans ever given the opportunity to voice
opinions concerning Fan Club management by a for-profit company?
Web service costs can be killer. I know this. But ... any effective,
organized web presence always begins with a plan. Anything less is
ineffective and expensive. If fans are paying for various web
services, who decides what services are necessary and what aren't? Is
someone at Fan Factory saying 'oh that sounds cool ... we'll put that
on the web and let the fans pay more for it than what it actually
costs us to produce and host'? Since I don't use web services
frequently, personal access to passworded sites is inconsequential to
me. But more importantly, I haven't incurred the cost.
What I _honestly_ don't understand is how Fan Factory would be
adversely effected/affected -- I never have gotten effect/affect thing
down right --
by offering Gold Club members 2 fan club seats when Micahel is on tour
-- and nothing else. I'd be perfectly happy with that. My $50.00
would not have been spent in vain.
Sincerely,
Lu Ann
Meri
> I'm so happy that YOU understood it because I wrote it deliberately NOT
> to make any sense whatever; knowing full well, of course, that YOU would
> attempt the impossible - to make sense of nonsense. "Twas brillig..."
Well, I guess I'm smarter than you think I am huh? And if I said I
didn't understand it or it didn't make sense you would have created a
response. It doesn't matter what anyone says to you Linda because you
twist and turn every word, sentance and idea into whatever YOU want it
to be. That is a symptom of a troubled mind.
> YOU have "seen" copies of private and confidential contracts between
> Michael Bolton and his employers? That's interesting. And even if you
> "didn't" (note the "even if I didn't...") you trust Michael (not that
> you KNOW him of course or have even spoken intimately about his personal
> affairs as he is wont to keep them "personal and confidential," you have
> spoken with his "representatives?" Just which "representative" has
> taken it upon themselves to divulge confidential information about "The
> Boss?" Wait - ton't tell me - I have a pretty good idea of who that is.
> That's probably why she isn't "representing" him anymore.
Yes, I have seen copies of the contracts and the people who showed
them to me were the other parties of the contract. You see Linda, I
have friends in many different areas of the entertainment industry.
Besides, the contracts are only confidential IF both parties agree to
make them confidential. The contracts I saw were with a venue and the
artist and were in not way confidential. Sorry, wrong again.
Also, by representative you're referring to Judine, I haven't spoke to
her in a long time, so you're inference was wrong as well.
> > Did you ever stop to think that's where she wanted to sit?
> >
> And did YOU ever consider the possibility that maybe she would have been
> flattered to sit closer? There's a 50-50 chance either way. Why don't
> you ask her next time you see her.
At the risk of being called a stalker by a troubled person... I did
ask Michael's mother why she was sitting about 15 rows back at the
Atlantic City show last year and she told me she prefers to sit in the
middle. But again, you have only my word on that.
> > Usually artists are given seats within the 6-10th rows to give out to
> >
> friends
> > and family.
>
> Another one of your representative's tidbits? That would leave the fan
> club 5 rows...hmmmm...let me see, so many fans, so few rows...
OMG! Did you ever think that maybe just MAYBE I have the information
from some OTHER source than Bolton people? I happen to have a friend
who is in a very popular band and HE is the one who told me where the
band's seats USUALLY are located. Okay!
> > The venues control what seats within the first 15 rows they give the
> > fan club, not the fan club.
>
> You mean that wasn't stipulated in his contract - you know the one that
> you saw, or if you didn't see it, that representative friend of yours
> told you about?
The contract stipulates that the seats must be within the first 15
rows. The VENUE decides which section and which rows.
> Maybe the scalpers and the brokers get priority treatment because they
> have "business arrangements" with the venues - they do supply them with
> the business of SEVERAL artists. Theirs is a profit-making business.
> Those VIP's sure like their "perks," too ya know! I hate to be the one
> to break this to you, oh, resident Business Expert, but venues are in
> business to make money. Think of them as super-duper "fan clubs" (by
> YOUR definition).
Of course they are. I still think it's sad that the fans can't be the
ones sitting down front. That was the point, but of course you twisted
it into yet another attack on me.
> Well, DUH, Meri, the tickets the stations are giving out FREE mean fewer
> PAYING seats for the artist.
But that is NOT stealing money out of Michael's pocket because the
radio station or other entity which gives out the seats is PROMOTING
the concert. That in turn gets the word out to other people who may
not have heard about the show. That is called advertising. Also, the
people who do not win tickets are probably going to go buy tickets. A
ticket scalper is selling tickets OVER the face value of the ticket.
ALL of the extra money the scalper gets goes directly into the
scalper's pocket NOT Michael's, therefore it IS stealing. By buying
from a scalper YOU helped that scalper steal from Michael.
> First 15 rows of WHAT section? Orchestra pit?
Sometimes, but usually over to the side. It all depended on where the
VENUE decided to put the fans. But the seats have always been within
the first 15 rows, just like the fan club advertised.
> Oh, dear; oh, dear - here we go again: don't believe everything
> (everyone) you see and hear.
Well, since I am an intelligent person with good reasoning powers and
the ability to discern what is accurate infomration and what is not, I
choose to believe the information I've seen. The only thing you've
done is call people names and muddy the waters with irrational rants
and accusations.
> BTW the rest of us "fans" haven't been so "informed" that
> our gold club was on its way out, much less been privvy to confidential
> information about Michael Bolton's contract. Where did you find this
> "official information?"
Again, I read the flier which was sent out by the fan club to the
members. I'm sorry you didn't, but it DID go out.
> In theory perhaps but not in practice. In your attempts to justify the
> demise of the Gold Club, you have put your proverbial foot in your
> verbose mouth - again. The mere allusion to the club being a
> "profit-making" venture was neither a wise nor professional portrayal of
> kind, hard-working, gracious, generous, professional behavior.
Why? Business people can be hard-working, gracious, generous and
professional and still make a profit. No one said the fan club
administrators are making millions of dollars in profit, I only said
that they had to make some money in order to stay afloat. That's all.
And, since they are not a non-profit charity it would make sense to
say they are "for profit". Using your word... "DUH".
> Several years ago eh? What a selective memory you have! Odd that the
> rest of us GC members don't seem to share that recollection.
I would assume that most people didn't pay attention to the notice
because they already belonged to the club. Either way, the notice was
put out.
> >> Well, I guess she's accustomed to a certain amount of jealousy from
> >> the uglier-than-hunk magnets huh?
> > First, I'm not jealous of Pamela Anderson. and secondly, at least I
> > don't go around calling people who I don't know and have never met
> > and know nothing about names. Who is being judgemental and
> > mean-spirited now?
> >
> GEE - why don't you take YOUR own advice? You most assuredly DO go
> around calling people you don't know (i.e. ME) names. Yeah, Meri WHO is
> being judgmental and mean-spirited - now, then - always?! Hmmmm? Put
> your big foot in your big mouth yet again! Tsk, tsk...
You started the name calling Linda. You attacked and continue to
attack my intelligence and my honesty. I am simply defending myself. I
answered Lori's post, not yours. Just because I have a different
opinion than you and know more than you do you attacked me. YOU are
the one who is mean and judgemental because you can't be wrong.
> For your "definition of terms," one might
> assume that you mean the ink has yet to dry in order that you can
> consider it a "real" autograph.
No, that's not true. But a real signature is different than a
photocopied or mass produced one. It's as simple as that. Most
collectors whether it be of autographs or memorbilia want real
signatures. That's just a fact.
> I KNOW who Styx is and I also know who Journey is. Don't bother to fill
> me in. I also KNOW what you meant. I was just having fun - apparently
> at your simple-minded expense. I reiterate, "Ignorance is bliss."
Actually I assumed you were being silly, but with you no one can every
tell. And, because of your background of religious overtones to
everything I thought maybe I would take the opportunity to educate you
and anyone else who happens to be reading on who Styx is.
> > YOU said you weren't going there.
> >
> I never said that. Check your FACTS please!
Yes you did, you said that you chose not to visit the new site. Check
your post.
> Do you consider it flaming and attacking to post your free opinion and
> not to receive a response to those opinions?
No, but I also don't expect to be attacked and called names THAT is
flaming.
> He IS here and HE does read this site and by his own admission "any site
> that mentions his name" - where do you think he gets HIS info from - his
> "representatives?" Yeah, right Meri - you keep on believing that...the
> rest of us know better and we don't even have an "official
> representative" telling us what to think like you do!
Well, since he said in an interview in 2002 that he doesn't visit the
sites with his name on them, I choose to believe Michael.
> Well, someone asked for "opinions" - not specifically YOURS. I gave
> mine and am accused of flaming among other things. Yes, this is an open
> forum - and I'm here to express MY opinions. Who is it that isn't
> making sense? Go back and re-read your own posts.
But if someone asked for opinions I also have the right to give mine,
which would not make this affairs that are none of my business. Right?
Glad we agree. Your flaming is the part where you call people names,
question their honest and twist their words to create whatever you
want them to be.
> I have a history as to the
> favorable outcomes of MY opinions - how about you?
Now that's funny!
> Ya know for someone who gets all their "information" third-hand (Michael
> -to manager/assistant - fan club), you sure do act like you know what
> Michael did/didn't do and will do.
I'm simply going by what I've seen him do in the past. That's all.
It's a rational and logical train of thought.
> If you consider the announcement about his getting his star on the
> Walk of Fame "timely," I suggest you check your dates.
Actually the fan club put out the information as soon as it had it. I
remember seeing it on the website (both the site for members and the
open site) as well as several newsgroups.
>Do you consider
> advertising for an album to be released on September 2nd "timely" in
> July?
Well, since Michael didn't announce the date of the release of the
album until July, HOW could the fan club annouce it sooner? Oh and by
the way, I know the date because he announced it at the Greater
Hartford Open Golf Tournament and I happened to be standing there when
the other fan asked him. The fan club administrators can't announce
information they don't have now can they? I would rather they announce
information that has been officially given to them by Michael's office
than I would have them announce rumors. It's the same way with any fan
club.
> Oh, of course. We should have known. He's always been that way to you
> - all the times that you've personally met him and he's divulged all of
> that personal information to you over cocktails and dinner. Oh,
> wait, that was his "official representative" wasn't it?
You asked, I answered. Believe it or don't. But no, I have never had
cocktails and dinner with Michael, unless you count being in the same
room as him and hundreds of others at his charity's Gala. I am simply
a fan, just like everyone else.
> I didn't call the club a "profit-making" venture - YOU did!
How is that maligning the club? Of coures they have a right to make a
profit. I'm not the one calling them "blood-suckers" YOU are.
> Oh, yeah, I forgot - Michael told you "in confidence" about it.
No, it wasn't told to me by Michael. Again, I'm not going to betray a
confidence. You can believe me or not, but attacking my honesty will
get you nowhere.
> Well, gee, Meri, it seems to me what with all your "official
> representative" divulging so much confidential information you to, one
> might not get the impression that you feel somewhat "superior" to the
> fans and even to Michael Bolton who is as you stated "just like the rest
> of us..." Does your idea of support entitle you to rip the pedestal out
> from under the man and make him appear a fool because that is the way
> YOU appear?
Linda, the "official representative" I was referring to was Gail, and
the information has been posted here and on other public websites
where fans have had concerns and questions. I believe Gail.
And the only one being foolish here is you. YOU give fans a bad name
because of your irrational rantings and spreading of half-truths and
attacking other people simply for having an opinon. That is why very
few people post here any longer.
> Hey - I've got my diploma - ya know the REAL diploma with the signatures
> in REAL ink - stating so.
Well, then I guess "real" does matter than doesn't it?
> > You know what, I bet you can't let anyone else have the last word.
> > Anyone want to give me some odds?
> >
> Ah, but it wasn't I who posted, "End of conversation.Period." You did
> that - oh, wait, I'm forgetting about your selective memory.
Darn, I wish someone had taken the bet. I would have made some money.
I knew you couldn't do it. And I answered to defend myself, which I
have a perfect right to do. If that is contradictory... sorry. I
reserve the right to change my mind.
Oh, and by the way, for the record Linda didn't call me an alligator.
::::sigh::::: Someone tell me why I bother?
Meri
Linda Gallo
Meri wrote:
> Well, I guess I'm smarter than you think I am huh? And if I said I
> didn't understand it or it didn't make sense you would have created a
> response. It doesn't matter what anyone says to you Linda because
> you twist and turn every word, sentance and idea into whatever YOU
> want it to be. That is a symptom of a troubled mind.
>
Example of a truly "troubled mind" - and spirit, too: "Well, I guess I'm
smarter than you think I am huh?" does it really matter what I think
Meri? Example of paranoia: "And if I said I didn't understand it or it
didn't make sense you would have created a response." Do you really
know that my intentions are, or do you honestly believe that everyone is
out to "get you?" As for twisting and turning - take a good look at
what YOU wrote please - squirm, squirm, squirm all you like; the truth
is still shining like a beacon. Whazzamatta - is the light too bright
for you?
>
> Yes, I have seen copies of the contracts and the people who showed
> them to me were the other parties of the contract. You see Linda, I
> have friends in many different areas of the entertainment industry.
> Besides, the contracts are only confidential IF both parties agree to
> make them confidential. The contracts I saw were with a venue and
> the artist and were in not way confidential. Sorry, wrong again.
>
The "other parties [plural] of the contract [singular]" showed Meri
their business contract eh? She has "friends in many different areas of
the entertainment industry..."eh? "...contracts are only confidential
IF both parties agree to make them confidential..." and of course, we
all KNOW that Michael Bolton wouldn't want to keep his business
contracts confidential - right? Oh, I see the contracts [now plural -
not two sentences later] were with a "venue" and the "artist" - are we
assuming that the "artist" is one, Michael Bolton, and that he doesn't
prefer to keep such contracts "confidential?" Then again, what with the
way "some people" interpret confidential [no names necessary], I suppose
anything goes! (or should that be "any ONE goes?" <VBG> I was just
about to ask where the former Director of Artist Relations is these
days, when YOU offered the following:
> Also, by representative you're referring to Judine, I haven't spoke
> to her in a long time, so you're inference was wrong as well.
>
If you haven't "spokEN" to her in a long time, one can only wonder why.
Perhaps that sour grapevine shriveled up and blew away due to being
banished from Bolton Land for bad behavior unbefitting a Bolton
Buddy/Employee. You might wish to take heed of her example; don't
repeat the mistake of disclosing confidentialities.
> At the risk of being called a stalker by a troubled person... I did
> ask Michael's mother why she was sitting about 15 rows back at the
> Atlantic City show last year and she told me she prefers to sit in
> the middle. But again, you have only my word on that.
>
Meddling again? What's it YOUR business where she wants to sit? She
can sit anywhere she darn pleases! As for your word...don't let me open
that book - you've already penned volumes attesting to the
untruthfulness of your "word." It's as good as the poison pen with
which you write.
>
>> Another one of your representative's tidbits? That would leave the
>> fan club 5 rows...hmmmm...let me see, so many fans, so few rows...
> OMG! Did you ever think that maybe just MAYBE I have the information
> from some OTHER source than Bolton people? I happen to have a friend
> who is in a very popular band and HE is the one who told me where the
> band's seats USUALLY are located. Okay!
>
Please read to the end of this post, dear Reader, and then we can all
collectively remind Meri that she discloses the "source" as being Gail -
a "Bolton person." Oh, wait a minute - I see, this tidbit of
information came from a "very popular band" member (Styx? Journey?)
and he told her where the band's seats USUALLY are located - of course
he has seen those venue/artist contract(s) too and knows EXACTLY where
each venue/artist has contracted for those seats to be, eh? Given the
reliability of your posts, one has only to guess at the reliability of
their source material. Perish the thought that we should think that
Meri isn't every bit as "in the know" as the band members/artists who
make these contractual agreements with venues.
>
> The contract stipulates that the seats must be within the first 15
> rows. The VENUE decides which section and which rows.
>
That depends upon whether one is including the orchestra pit in the
point of origination for "first 15 rows." It could be the "first 15
rows of the balcony" if the contract calls for it. Apparently the
venue, according to what you've just said, allocates certain rows for
band members/artists. Then we have the rows for the scalpers and VIPs -
and don't forget the season ticket-holders...would you like to be a
little more specific as to the location of those "first 15 rows?"
Answer the question; don't try to justify your reaction to it.
>
> Of course they are. I still think it's sad that the fans can't be the
> ones sitting down front. That was the point, but of course you
> twisted it into yet another attack on me.
>
Paranoia again? How can my assertion possibly be construed as an
"attack" upon YOU? If you truly believe that the fans should be sitting
in the seats provided by the venue to scalpers and VIP's (and band
members/artists), why are you so ardently defending what great seats the
club has always gotten for you? Make up your mind! If you want the
first row - do something about it! Don't just sit there and try to
please the powers-that-be with a lot of sycophantic flattery and don't
try to silence the rest of us who are asking some very valid questions
as regards seating. You still haven't answered my question - ARE YOU
TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST 15 ROWS BEGINNING WITH THE ORCHESTRA PIT ROWS?
Apparently not.
>
> But that is NOT stealing money out of Michael's pocket because the
> radio station or other entity which gives out the seats is PROMOTING
> the concert. That in turn gets the word out to other people who may
> not have heard about the show. That is called advertising. Also, the
> people who do not win tickets are probably going to go buy tickets. A
> ticket scalper is selling tickets OVER the face value of the ticket.
> ALL of the extra money the scalper gets goes directly into the
> scalper's pocket NOT Michael's, therefore it IS stealing. By buying
> from a scalper YOU helped that scalper steal from Michael.
>
Uh, Meri - back up a little here. You forgot to include the text within
my context - again. You are not making the jump to light speed! What
do you think the GC fans have been doing for their "one-time membership
fee" that isn't supposedly "making a profit?" They do even more
advertising and promoting than these radio stations! Take a look at the
internet - do you know how many web pages/sites Michael Bolton fans are
responsible for? Do you think it's just the "official" sites that are
promoting/advertising for him? Think again! And we don't get paid for
it in hard or soft dollars - but then who's asking for payment when his
and his fans' welfare and happiness are all that concern us. Ticket
scalpers remain in business for a reason. Have you ever asked why they
are still "scalping" tickets and making money that should belong to the
artist and the venue - and commensurately cost the fans fewer membership
fees if they were buying the tickets from the fan club? Indeed, why
should the scalpers and VIP's enjoy the best seats in the house? The
scalper is acting like a scalper. Question: is the fan club acting like
a fan club or a for-profit business? I do believe that I've told you
the story about the woman who saved a snake from freezing to death only
to have it bite her when it got well. She was aghast that her good
deeds had been repaid in such a fashion. When she asked the snake why
it bit her, it answered, "I did what snakes do." Perhaps your sources
didn't tell you that scalpers are doing what scalpers do. If the fan
club were at all concerned, they'd contract to do something about the
scalpers at those venues! Don't suggest that the fans should not see a
show from the vantage point of the best seats because the contract
called for fan club seats behind the scalpers, the radio stations, the
artist/band members, the VIPs...take these issues up with the
hard-working, generous, kind people who are making those contracts on
behalf of our artist.
>
> Sometimes, but usually over to the side. It all depended on where the
> VENUE decided to put the fans. But the seats have always been within
> the first 15 rows, just like the fan club advertised.
>
No one is suggesting that the fan club advertised any differently. the
first 15 rows can be just about anywhere when you think about it. The
first 15 rows of section D are still "the first 15 rows." The first 15
rows of the balcony are still "the first 15 rows." My fan club seats
have been in the center as well as on the sides. Gratefully the Maestro
does manage to cover the stage very well and he tries his best to "play"
to the fans in ALL sections. His magnaimous stage presence is truly a
blessing. No one can "fill" a room with his presence like Michael
Bolton! Were he a lesser personality, there could be problems. But he
does manage to "reach out" to all the fans. He is the consummate
"showman!" But you didn't address that issue at all - you preferred to
belabor the contractual arrangements.
>
> Well, since I am an intelligent person with good reasoning powers and
> the ability to discern what is accurate infomration and what is not,
> I choose to believe the information I've seen. The only thing you've
> done is call people names and muddy the waters with irrational rants
> and accusations.
>
Is that magic mirror telling you lies again? <LOL> And you, in turn,
are perpetuating them herein. Tsk, tsk..."by their fruits you will know
them!" What have you accomplished by your defensive stance? Much more
good could be attained by working together - not at odds, with one
another. I'm trying but it's like trying to lead the horse's a** to
water and having it sit in it rather than drink it! <ROFL> And before
you accuse me of calling YOU names - re-read that allegorical attempt.
>
> Again, I read the flier which was sent out by the fan club to the
> members. I'm sorry you didn't, but it DID go out.
>
Must have been another one of those "selective" mailings, eh? Perhaps
the powers-that-be ought to take a closer look at such practices and
attempt not to repeat them.
>
> Why? Business people can be hard-working, gracious, generous and
> professional and still make a profit.
At whose expense is that profit made? No businessman of any repute will
make a profit at the expense of his/her customers. Businesses don't
survive such shennanigans very long. There have been a lot of
hard-working, general and professional people trying to make a profit at
the expense of others - some of them are embezzlers. No one is denying
the businessman his profit as long as he/she remembers the old adage
that "the customer is always right." Mess with the man with the money
and that profit dries right up.
>No one said the fan club administrators are making millions of dollars
>in profit, I only said that they had to make some money in order to
>stay afloat. That's all. And, since they are not a non-profit charity
>it would make sense to say they are "for profit". Using your word...
>"DUH".
>
I'm certain that we can all understand the need to "stay afloat."
You're talking to a single parent here. Making "ends meet" is critical
for such as I (and there are many in our fan base who are single
parents)! We have obligations to meet, too - things like, food,
shelter, clothing, transportation - all necessities. A fan club
membership is not a necessity when we have an obligation to care for our
children. That is where WE are coming from. We can understand the need
to keep the presses running. What we can't understand is why we were
not consulted first as is our right as the "other party" in the
contractual arrangement for which we paid lifetime dues of $50. It's
quite that simple. We paid our dues in exchange for certain promises
that were not kept. Instead we find our Club "replaced" and our
grievances dismissed by "time to move on..." Sorry - it's time to stop
and take stock of what's happening and try to renegotiate, not reneg.
>
> I would assume that most people didn't pay attention to the notice
> because they already belonged to the club. Either way, the notice was
> put out.
>
What does it matter now - the harm's been done. Instead of justifying
the mistake - why not try rectifying it instead.
>
> You started the name calling Linda. You attacked and continue to
> attack my intelligence and my honesty. I am simply defending myself.
> I answered Lori's post, not yours. Just because I have a different
> opinion than you and know more than you do you attacked me. YOU are
> the one who is mean and judgemental because you can't be wrong.
>
I won't honor such childish behavior with so much as a reaction much
less a response. The truth is plain enough to see and read. As for
being "wrong?" That is purely subjective on your part. I do believe
that my record stands on its own merits.
>
> No, that's not true. But a real signature is different than a
> photocopied or mass produced one. It's as simple as that. Most
> collectors whether it be of autographs or memorbilia want real
> signatures. That's just a fact.
>
My son collects autographs. He even has Michael's. He gets them signed
PERSONALLY. Many fans purchase "signed" autographs that come with COA's
- certificates of authenticity. I am well aware of the value of
those autographs obtained by a fan in person as opposed to those sold
with COAs and/or mass produced. Next time get your "facts" straight
before posting them. BTW part of the value in having an "authentic"
autograph collected by a fan in person is generally the story that goes
along with it. I call them "Michael Moments" and have shared mine, and
encouraged other fans to share theirs. Of course, we are lumped into
your "troubled minds" category of "stalkers" for our efforts. Tsk, tsk!
> Actually I assumed you were being silly, but with you no one can
> every tell. And, because of your background of religious overtones to
> everything I thought maybe I would take the opportunity to educate
> you and anyone else who happens to be reading on who Styx is.
>
"Silly?" ME? <ROFL> About as "silly" as the Maestro was when he held
up his print-out of the Symptoms of Boltonitis from my website and then
said (tongue-in-cheek) that that was why he never visited sites with his
name on them! Methinks you don't understand "our" sense of humor!
That's okay - we understand each other very well! <VBG> If you want to
educate this Michael Bolton newsgroup about Styx, I suggest that you try
alt.fan.styx for promoting them. Let's keep Michael's newsgroup for
promoting Michael Bolton please! thanks!
>
>>> YOU said you weren't going there.
>> I never said that. Check your FACTS please!
> Yes you did, you said that you chose not to visit the new site. Check
> your post.
>
I asked you to POST the URL. If I didn't intend to go there myself, why
would I suggest other BB's go there? Is there absolutely NO logic
whatever to your thinking processes? Apparently not! As a matter of
fact, I have been there before and have complimented the club on its
fine job with the new site. You must have missed my post (yeah, right!
<VBG>) In my latest visit, I noted a few references that contradict
some of what you've said. Please check out the main page - left column.
>
> No, but I also don't expect to be attacked and called names THAT is
> flaming.
>
Then considered yourself burned to a hellion's crisp! <LOL> This
Phoenix has already risen from her ashes of the last flame war with you
and your f[r]iends.
>
> Well, since he said in an interview in 2002 that he doesn't visit the
> sites with his name on them, I choose to believe Michael.
>
You don't understand me and you don't understand Michael either. What
else is new? Certainly not your outlook on life! That's too bad. The
rest of us on our on way onward and upward. Why not unplug your head
from that hole in the sand and join us.
>
> But if someone asked for opinions I also have the right to give mine,
> which would not make this affairs that are none of my business.
> Right? Glad we agree. Your flaming is the part where you call people
> names, question their honest and twist their words to create whatever
> you want them to be.
>
I'd love to get you on a witness stand! What a pushover! You'd be
crying your eyes out and whining about how unfair it is to ask you
questions for which you haven't an answer. Hearsay is inadmissable ya
know! If I believed that you did NOT have a right to express your
opinion, would I bother to counter with one of my own? As for your
"opinions" being your business, there is no problem there. As to what
is confidential and personal as regards an artist and his family, his
contracts, his business associates and Lord knows what else - that's
another issue entirely.
>
>> I have a history as to the favorable outcomes of MY opinions - how
>> about you?
> Now that's funny!
>
That time I wasn't making a funny Meri! <VBG>
>
> I'm simply going by what I've seen him do in the past. That's all.
> It's a rational and logical train of thought.
>
In case you haven't noticed he's a "new" man - the "renaissance man" I
believe some of the articles called him. I doubt whether you'll see him
repeating any mistakes from his past. As for "rational and logical
trains of thought," if we are going by what you've exhibited in the
past, I'd say that your train derailed and no one told you about it.
>
> Actually the fan club put out the information as soon as it had it. I
> remember seeing it on the website (both the site for members and the
> open site) as well as several newsgroups.
>
You mean it's the Maestro's fault or "his people's" fault that they
didn't alert the "official club" first? Doesn't augur well for your
alleged MB "endorsement" of the club does it? "Better to remain silent
and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt."
>
>> Do you consider advertising for an album to be released on
>> September 2nd "timely" in July?
> Well, since Michael didn't announce the date of the release of the
> album until July, HOW could the fan club annouce it sooner?
Oh, so it's "Michael's fault" again is it?
> Oh and by the way, I know the date because he announced it at the
>Greater Hartford Open Golf Tournament and I happened to be standing
>there when the other fan asked him.
Oh, so he told the fans about the album before telling the fan club
administrators, eh? Hmmmm...that's interesting. What about all that
"official endorsement" of the club you've been bragging about. It would
seem that he places more value upon the FANS - don't you? That's OUR
Michael! Then again, I told you so! He's the "fan's man!" I have
always said that and I'll continue to say that. You can rant and rave
all you want about how he originated the club and chose its
administrators and what have you, but when it comes time to disseminate
info - who does he give it to first? The fans!!! Thank you Maestro!
Of course it didn't make a dent in certain very thick heads, but it was
a good try!
>The fan club administrators can't announce information they don't have
>now can they? I would rather they announce information that has been
>officially given to them by Michael's office than I would have them
>announce rumors. It's the same way with any fan club.
>
Meri - you got a "scoop" of such magnitude and you didn't even pass it
on to that "representative" friend of yours? You mean that your
overhearing that tidbit straight from the horse's mouth wouldn't have
been good enough for your source(s)? Don't they TRUST you? Oh, I see
they trust Michael more. Maybe he just doesn't trust them enough eh?
Do you think Michael himself would start a "rumor" about the release of
a new album? I thought you said you thought he was an honest man?
Guess it wasn't a rumor was it? Next time the Maestro speaks - believe
him. He's not a liar like the Father of Lies Satan and his band of
hellions. <VBG>
>
> You asked, I answered. Believe it or don't. But no, I have never had
> cocktails and dinner with Michael, unless you count being in the same
> room as him and hundreds of others at his charity's Gala. I am
> simply a fan, just like everyone else.
>
Thank you for deigning to share that with us.
>
> No, it wasn't told to me by Michael. Again, I'm not going to betray a
> confidence. You can believe me or not, but attacking my honesty will
> get you nowhere.
>
Disproving your honesty in your own words has gotten me everywhere!
Keep it up! I don't have to say anything at all - just take a gander at
the next few lines you posted...
>
> Linda, the "official representative" I was referring to was Gail, and
> the information has been posted here and on other public websites
> where fans have had concerns and questions. I believe Gail.
>
As I said, it only takes a paragraph with you to "lie." FYI: YOU said
just one short paragraph ago and I quote verbatim, "I'm not going to
betray a confidence..." And in the paragraph above, you betray that
confidential source by posting, "...the "official representative" I was
referring to was Gail..." and you go on to intimate that what you
alleged was "confidential" was in fact public domain. If Gail posted it
in the public domain, then one would hope that it is "true!" (No
offense Gail, I'm just making a point!)
> And the only one being foolish here is you. YOU give fans a bad name
> because of your irrational rantings and spreading of half-truths and
> attacking other people simply for having an opinon. That is why very
> few people post here any longer.
>
To stand up for the fans is NOT giving them a bad name - it's giving
them a VOICE! As for the rationality of my "rantings," I have the good
fruits to prove them. As for half-truths, perhaps you'd like to clarify
that "first 15 rows" issue before pointing that accusing finger at me.
And as for "attacking other people," no one else is whining about
being "flamed" but YOU! Perhaps they don't share your paranoid fears.
As to why "very few people post here any longer," I suggest the
possibility that you may be boring them to death with your passionate
attempts at "correctness" and "being right." You see the rest of us are
wise enough to differentiate between subjectivity and objectivity. We
are also practicing what we preach - freedom of speech - without
publicly crying about how unfair others are for voicing their opinions.
You have to accept the fact that other people's opinions are not what
you want them to be; they are as they should be - THEIR opinions. We
have a right to express them without fear of reprisals such as being
labeled "stalkers" with "troubled minds." We are fans with troubled
spirits. That should concern you more than your egotistical drive to be
"right."
>
>> Hey - I've got my diploma - ya know the REAL diploma with the
>> signatures in REAL ink - stating so.
> Well, then I guess "real" does matter than doesn't it?
>
Have you ever read "The Myth of the Cave?" Read it and come back and
discuss "reality" with me.
>
> Darn, I wish someone had taken the bet. I would have made some money.
> I knew you couldn't do it. And I answered to defend myself, which I
> have a perfect right to do. If that is contradictory... sorry. I
> reserve the right to change my mind.
>
Oh, was that intended to shut the Gadfly of Bolton Land up?! surely you
jest! <ROFL> One cannot change what one does not possess. First find
your mind, then you can worry about changing it.
> Oh, and by the way, for the record Linda didn't call me an alligator.
> ::::sigh::::: Someone tell me why I bother?
>
> Gladly - you "bother" because you are so bereft of companionship and
approval, you'd say/do anything for some attention, albeit no matter how
"cruel" it appears to you. It's a mental condition that bears
attention. Practice what you preach - get help and you won't find
yourself "bothering" about things that don't concern you. You obviously
are quite happy with the club structure the way it is. Others are not.
No, I didn't call you an alligator - but my advice to the "ostrich
with its head in the sand" still stands! <LOL> <3 Linda
Meri
:::clipping personal attacks:::
>Oh, I see the contracts [now plural -
> not two sentences later] were with a "venue" and the "artist" - are we
> assuming that the "artist" is one, Michael Bolton, and that he doesn't
> prefer to keep such contracts "confidential?"
Since it's a standard business contract(s) (whatever) why would it
matter that someone showed it to me? It's not like I copied it and
posted it on the internet for anyone to see. But of course, there is
already one posted, so again, why would it matter? The person at the
venue mentioned the contract and I asked to see it and he obliged. I
never revealed any confidential information because everything I read
(which was mostly about the fan club seating) and the riders have
already been released by Michael though his fan club or through other
sources.
:::clipping more personal attacks:::
> Meddling again? What's it YOUR business where she wants to sit?
Meddling would require some action on my part to interfere in a
situation. To answer your other question, we were discussing where
everyone was sitting I jokingly asked why she wasn't in the front row.
She answered. It's as simple as that. It was a normal conversation.
:::clipping more personal attacks:::
> Please read to the end of this post, dear Reader, and then we can all
> collectively remind Meri that she discloses the "source" as being Gail -
> a "Bolton person."
You are so messed up. The information that I was referring to which
came from Gail was regarding the fan club, Gold Club and fan club
seating which she has put out on public forums.
The other information regarding Michael's decision to chose who HE
wanted as administrators of his fan club came frome a source I am
keeping confidential.
Finally, the family and friend seating at venues came from a personal
friend. Three separate people and three separate subjects. Can you
please keep things straight? I have NOT released any information
which I was asked to keep confidential and I WILL NOT give out any
names of persons who have had personal conversations with me.
Oh, wait a minute - I see, this tidbit of
> information came from a "very popular band" member (Styx? Journey?)
> and he told her where the band's seats USUALLY are located - of course
> he has seen those venue/artist contract(s) too and knows EXACTLY where
> each venue/artist has contracted for those seats to be, eh?
According to my friend, the family and friend seating is not usually
in the contract. Each venue decides with each tour director where the
seats are but they are USUALLY in the middle of the center section.
Again, I was simply trying to impart some information that is not
generally available or known. NOT confidential information...just
different information.
> > The contract stipulates that the seats must be within the first 15
> > rows. The VENUE decides which section and which rows.
> >
> That depends upon whether one is including the orchestra pit in the
> point of origination for "first 15 rows."
Again ... I would suppose that the VENUE would make that call. I'm
sure, however, that since fans are sitting in the first 15 rows
(usually including the orchestra pit) that the contract is being
interpreted as most reasonable people would interpret it... as
including the 15 rows starting at the stage and going back. For the
shows I've heard of fans getting seats to the 2003 tour, the seats are
ranging from row 1 through 15, including the orchestra pit as being
part of the first 15 rows. Some venues are chosing side sections some
center.
> If you truly believe that the fans should be sitting
> in the seats provided by the venue to scalpers and VIP's (and band
> members/artists), why are you so ardently defending what great seats the
> club has always gotten for you?
Because the fan club has no way of stopping the venue from selling to
VIPs or scalpers. They are getting us the best possible seats they
can. Why is that so difficult to understand? The fan club cannot
control the ticket policies of the thousands of different venues
around the world. That's just plain silly to expect. And... because
the fan club usually has gotten me better seats than I would have
gotten had I used normal ticket buying methods I defend my opinion
that they are doing what they said they would do.
>Make up your mind! If you want the
> first row - do something about it!
HOW is moaning and complaining about the fan club going to get every
fan who wants to be in the front row actually IN the front row? The
VENUES control the seating, NOT the fan club. Again, the fan club does
the best they can for us and I believe they do an excellent job.
> Uh, Meri - back up a little here. You forgot to include the text within
> my context - again. You are not making the jump to light speed! What
> do you think the GC fans have been doing for their "one-time membership
> fee" that isn't supposedly "making a profit?" They do even more
> advertising and promoting than these radio stations! Take a look at the
> internet - do you know how many web pages/sites Michael Bolton fans are
> responsible for? Do you think it's just the "official" sites that are
> promoting/advertising for him? Think again! And we don't get paid for
> it in hard or soft dollars - but then who's asking for payment when his
> and his fans' welfare and happiness are all that concern us.
And your point is what? That has nothing to do with you buying illegal
tickets from a scalper and the scalper pocketing money which should
have gone to the artist. The point was that the free tickets given
away by radio stations are for promotional purposes. That has nothing
to do with fans promoting the artist as well.
>Ticket > scalpers remain in business for a reason. Have you ever
asked why they
> are still "scalping" tickets and making money that should belong to the
> artist and the venue - and commensurately cost the fans fewer membership
> fees if they were buying the tickets from the fan club?
I don't need to ask why, I know why, because people buy the tickets.
It's calld supply and demand. If people wouldn't buy tickets from
scalpers they would go out of business. It has nothing do to with the
fan club. There are scalpers for every type of ticket out there from
NASCAR to the ballet and fan clubs have nothing to do with scalpers.
> > Sometimes, but usually over to the side. It all depended on where the
> > VENUE decided to put the fans. But the seats have always been within
> > the first 15 rows, just like the fan club advertised.
> >
> No one is suggesting that the fan club advertised any differently. the
> first 15 rows can be just about anywhere when you think about it. The
> first 15 rows of section D are still "the first 15 rows." The first 15
> rows of the balcony are still "the first 15 rows."
Thank you for agreeing with me. So basically you're saying that the
fan club has fulfilled it's agreement with the fans. Nice of you to
finally admit that.
:::clipping yet another personal attack:::
> > Again, I read the flier which was sent out by the fan club to the
> > members. I'm sorry you didn't, but it DID go out.
> >
> Must have been another one of those "selective" mailings, eh? Perhaps
> the powers-that-be ought to take a closer look at such practices and
> attempt not to repeat them.
No, it was a general flier sent out to the general fan club, just as
Gail or Anna said it was.
> > Why? Business people can be hard-working, gracious, generous and
> > professional and still make a profit.
>
> At whose expense is that profit made?
Well, since you already agreed that the fan club is doing its job...at
no one's expense.
> What we can't understand is why we were
> not consulted first as is our right as the "other party" in the
> contractual arrangement for which we paid lifetime dues of $50. It's
> quite that simple. We paid our dues in exchange for certain promises
> that were not kept.
As I said before and as you agreed, the promises were kept. And, your
"contract" was with Fan Emporium not Fan Factory. Fan Emporium no
longer exists and therefore the contract with them ended when the
business ended. You cannot have a contract with a business which no
longer exists any more than you can with a dead person.
> What does it matter now ....
If it doesn't matter Linda, why, for goodness sake, do you keep on
harping on the same points over and over and over even after the
decision has been made and explained to you numerous times?
:::clipping more personal attacks:::
> I am well aware of the value of
> those autographs obtained by a fan in person as opposed to those sold
> with COAs and/or mass produced.
Then why did you say that an autograph is an autograph and that
autographs given out via electronic sources are the same as
"authentic" ones? Now who is being contradictory?
> "Silly?" ME? <ROFL> About as "silly" as the Maestro was when he held
> up his print-out of the Symptoms of Boltonitis from my website and then
> said (tongue-in-cheek) that that was why he never visited sites with his
> name on them!
Actually it was a print out given to him by the interviewer and his
answer was NOT tongue-in-cheek. He actually looked quite
uncomfortable, amused, but uncomfortable.
> If you want to
> educate this Michael Bolton newsgroup about Styx, I suggest that you try
> alt.fan.styx for promoting them. Let's keep Michael's newsgroup for
> promoting Michael Bolton please! thanks!
I was using theirs as an example of a good website and you twisted the
meaning of their name and all I was doing was setting the record
straight.
> >>> YOU said you weren't going there.
> >> I never said that. Check your FACTS please!
> > Yes you did, you said that you chose not to visit the new site. Check
> > your post.
> >
> I asked you to POST the URL. If I didn't intend to go there myself, why
> would I suggest other BB's go there?
You said in a previous post that you weren't going to the new website.
I guess maybe you decided that isn't not as bad a site as you thought.
:::clipping more personal attacks:::
> If I believed that you did NOT have a right to express your
> opinion, would I bother to counter with one of my own?
The question is why do you feel the need to counter everything
everyone (not just me) says? Why do YOU feel you need to have the last
word on every subject? Why do you feel everyone is attacking YOU
because they disagree with what you said? Why do you continue to harp
on subjects that are closed?
>As for your
> "opinions" being your business, there is no problem there. As to what
> is confidential and personal as regards an artist and his family, his
> contracts, his business associates and Lord knows what else - that's
> another issue entirely.
See above.. I never disclosed any personal or confidential
information.
> >> I have a history as to the favorable outcomes of MY opinions - how
> >> about you?
> > Now that's funny!
> >
> That time I wasn't making a funny Meri! <VBG>
But isn't it nice that you actually accomplished something with one of
your posts?
:::clipping yet another personal attack:::
> > Actually the fan club put out the information as soon as it had it. I
> > remember seeing it on the website (both the site for members and the
> > open site) as well as several newsgroups.
> >
> You mean it's the Maestro's fault or "his people's" fault that they
> didn't alert the "official club" first?
They did. That's what I said in the above statement.
Again, you twisted the words to suit your purpose. Gail makes every
attempt to release all information as soon as she has it. She posts it
to the official website (both for members and non-members) and then
she also posts it to the various newsgroups and bulletin boards. I
believe that's going above and beyond the call of duty. She even has
other people post for her if she's unable to. What a great job she
does.
> >> Do you consider advertising for an album to be released on
> >> September 2nd "timely" in July?
> > Well, since Michael didn't announce the date of the release of the
> > album until July, HOW could the fan club annouce it sooner?
>
> Oh, so it's "Michael's fault" again is it?
It's no one's "fault" someone asked him a question and he answered it.
I actually think he was happy to have someone ask, so he could talk
about it. I'm assuming Michael's office has asked the fan club not to
post information until they verify it. That's standard practice with
most fan clubs. Most artists want the information their fan club
releases to be accurate. There is nothing wrong with that. If other
sources release the information sooner how is that a problem? At least
in Michael's club, when a fan writes in to ask if a certain piece of
information is true that recieve an answer. That is a wonderful way to
interact with the fans.
> It would
> seem that he places more value upon the FANS - don't you?
It would seem that Michael had an opportunity and he took it. It's not
like he had to go out of his way. He was at a public event and someone
asked him a question.
:::clipping more nastiness:::
> Disproving your honesty in your own words has gotten me everywhere!
> Keep it up! I don't have to say anything at all - just take a gander at
> the next few lines you posted...
> >
> > Linda, the "official representative" I was referring to was Gail, and
> > the information has been posted here and on other public websites
> > where fans have had concerns and questions. I believe Gail.
> >
> As I said, it only takes a paragraph with you to "lie." FYI: YOU said
> just one short paragraph ago and I quote verbatim, "I'm not going to
> betray a confidence..."
HOW can I be betraying a confidence when the information was posted
publicly by Gail? Gail IS NOT and I repeat, IS NOT the person I was
talking about regarding Michael's choice in fan club administrators.
Stick to the subject instead of combining subjects to prove your
warped sense of reality.
> If Gail posted it
> in the public domain, then one would hope that it is "true!" (No
> offense Gail, I'm just making a point!)
You combined two subjects into one to make it appear something was
contradictory. One subject was the Gold Club and the other was the
administrators of the club. And you yet you act like it is not true.
Gail or Anna, I don't recall, said that the information that the GC
was not taking any more members was sent out in a flier to fan club
members a couple years ago. You made the accusation that the flier
either never went out, or that it was only sent to a few select
people, both of which were false accusations. So if what Gail and Anna
say is true, why do you question it?
:::clipping more rantings about me:::
> >> Hey - I've got my diploma - ya know the REAL diploma with the
> >> signatures in REAL ink - stating so.
> > Well, then I guess "real" does matter than doesn't it?
> >
> Have you ever read "The Myth of the Cave?" Read it and come back and
> discuss "reality" with me.
That's off the point yet again, you agreed that "real", authentic
signatures are worth more than mass-produced ones and you proved my
point that when a fan asks for an autograph they probably wouldn't be
happy with a copied one and therefore the Internet cannot be used for
that purpose. Therefore.. if that is true, then a fan club MUST have
an office and staff to send snail mail to the fans.
:::clipping yet another inane attack on me:::
I personally will be taking Anna's suggestion and will not discuss
this subject any longer. Please Linda, why don't you try something new
and do the same. If you truly feel this should be a positive place for
supporting Michael and his music ... stop now. Otherwise, we'll all
know who really starts all of the problems here and then keeps them
going and going and going.
Meri
Linda Gallo
>
> Since it's a standard business contract(s) (whatever) why would it
> matter that someone showed it to me? It's not like I copied it and
> posted it on the internet for anyone to see. But of course, there is
> already one posted, so again, why would it matter? The person at the
> venue mentioned the contract and I asked to see it and he obliged. I
> never revealed any confidential information because everything I read
> (which was mostly about the fan club seating) and the riders have
> already been released by Michael though his fan club or through other
> sources.
>
were a party to the contract. What was YOUR interest in asking to see
it? Did you doubt the veracity of what was told to you about the fan
club seating that you just had to see for yourself?
> :::clipping more personal attacks:::
>
Another example of paranoia. Interpret as: Meri couldn't answer the
questions.
>
>
> Meddling would require some action on my part to interfere in a
> situation.
A "situation" perhaps as the demise of the Gold Club about which you
wish to impart so much "information" with so little foundation? If, by
your own admission, there is nothing that can be done about it, why
bother? Unless of course you have an axe to grind with Yours Truly...
> To answer your other question, we were discussing where everyone was
> sitting I jokingly asked why she wasn't in the front row. She
> answered. It's as simple as that. It was a normal conversation.
>
"Small things amuse small minds." I take it that is what constitutes a
"normal conversation" for you. Continue in your blissful ignorance.
There are those of us who have actually engaged in more illuminating
conversations with Helen.
> :::clipping more personal attacks:::
>
Clip less, answer more.
> You are so messed up. The information that I was referring to which
> came from Gail was regarding the fan club, Gold Club and fan club
> seating which she has put out on public forums.
>
Perhaps if you were an iota of the communicator you wish us to think you
are, there wouldn't be any confusion in what you are trying to
communicate. That doesn't make ME messed up - try making yourself
clear. Perhaps telling the truth might help; lies will trap you every
time. I have no problem with Gail's communications; it's yours that
concern me.
> The other information regarding Michael's decision to chose who HE
> wanted as administrators of his fan club came frome a source I am
> keeping confidential.
>
What was that you were saying about "meddling?" Let me quote verbatim:
>> Meddling would require some action on my part to interfere in a
>> situation.
Both the source and the confidential information should remain just that
- confidential. Might I add that unless you got it from Michael
himself, don't believe it. FYI: It isn't the WHO or the WHY that is at
issue here - it's the WHAT and the WHEN. Get it?
> Finally, the family and friend seating at venues came from a personal
> friend. Three separate people and three separate subjects. Can you
> please keep things straight? I have NOT released any information
> which I was asked to keep confidential and I WILL NOT give out any
> names of persons who have had personal conversations with me.
>
Wasn't it YOU who complained that I was "off the topic?" How do you
justify "three separate people and three separate subjects" as relevant
to the ONE topic at issue - to wit, the demise of the Gold Club and its
perks along with it? What has any of what you've provided by way of
"information" got to do with redressing the grievances of GC members?
> According to my friend, the family and friend seating is not usually
> in the contract. Each venue decides with each tour director where the
> seats are but they are USUALLY in the middle of the center section.
> Again, I was simply trying to impart some information that is not
> generally available or known. NOT confidential information...just
> different information.
>
No, it isn't. In FACT, the first few rows are allocated for and by the
PRODUCTION COMPANY - that's traditional. And here's a little tip for
you: the production company are the artist's backers - they provide the
funding for the concert...yaddayaddayadda...
>
> Again ... I would suppose that the VENUE would make that call. I'm
> sure, however, that since fans are sitting in the first 15 rows
> (usually including the orchestra pit) that the contract is being
> interpreted as most reasonable people would interpret it... as
> including the 15 rows starting at the stage and going back. For the
> shows I've heard of fans getting seats to the 2003 tour, the seats
> are ranging from row 1 through 15, including the orchestra pit as
> being part of the first 15 rows. Some venues are chosing side
> sections some center.
>
Don't assume. You're wrong. The "orchestra pit's" first few rows
belong to the production company. They send them gratis to the radio
stations and promoters, to the VIP's and the artist/band's
family/friends. By way of clarification: the issue herein is NOT the
location of the preferred seats; rather it is the fact that GC members
are not longer privileged to preferred fan club seating as was accorded
them by their LIFETIME membership for which they paid $50 in dues.
>
> Because the fan club has no way of stopping the venue from selling to
> VIPs or scalpers. They are getting us the best possible seats they
> can. Why is that so difficult to understand? The fan club cannot
> control the ticket policies of the thousands of different venues
> around the world. That's just plain silly to expect. And... because
> the fan club usually has gotten me better seats than I would have
> gotten had I used normal ticket buying methods I defend my opinion
> that they are doing what they said they would do.
>
Wrong again: the fan club has no way of stopping the PRODUCTION COMPANY
- it's boss's boss - from selling to scalpers. Perhaps they are getting
the "best possible seats" - those left AFTER the production company
takes its pick. As for controlling the "ticket policies" - they should
exert more favorable influence with the production company on behalf of
the fans. You are defending an opinion unfortunately based upon the
wrong premise, to wit that the location is the underlying problem when
in fact, it is the withdrawal of the preferred seating "perk" (if you
will) (who cares where the seats are if you don't have access to them
anymore anyway?! <LOL>)
>
> HOW is moaning and complaining about the fan club going to get every
> fan who wants to be in the front row actually IN the front row? The
> VENUES control the seating, NOT the fan club. Again, the fan club
> does the best they can for us and I believe they do an excellent job.
>
>
It would have the same force and effect as the "taxation without
representation" moan/groan of the revolutionaries. They moaned and
complained a lot to King George before dumping all that tea in Boston
Harbor! <LOL> A little chutzpah goes a long way! "Give me liberty or
give me death!"
>
> And your point is what? That has nothing to do with you buying
> illegal tickets from a scalper and the scalper pocketing money which
> should have gone to the artist. The point was that the free tickets
> given away by radio stations are for promotional purposes. That has
> nothing to do with fans promoting the artist as well.
>
My point is that "there's more than one way to skin a cat" or to promote
an artist. The radio stations didn't manage to bring in any "new fans"
- they just gave away FREE seats to old fans. However, the tried and
true Bolton Buddies have been promoting the Maestro in many other ways -
voluntarily. These are PAYING fans and it isn't wise to cross them. We
have a unique phenomenon in this country: it's called "idol worship."
The promoters build the pedestal on the adoration of the fans only to
have the fans topple that pedestal when they feel they've been duped.
If you, and they, would wake up and smell the coffee, you'd realize that
alienating the fans for the price of a few preferred seats is going to
cost more in the long run than can be gained by "profits."
>
> I don't need to ask why, I know why, because people buy the tickets.
> It's calld supply and demand. If people wouldn't buy tickets from
> scalpers they would go out of business. It has nothing do to with the
> fan club. There are scalpers for every type of ticket out there from
> NASCAR to the ballet and fan clubs have nothing to do with scalpers.
>
>
Scalpers are getting BOX OFFICE tickets from the source - the production
company - the artist's backers. It has nothing to do with
"supply/demand" and everything to do with rank and privilege. Scalpers
will not go out of business as long as they can make a profit on the
scalpers who in turn make a profit on the public. Regardless of the
number and type of scalpers, it is the production companies who are
supporting them and keeping them in business. Ticket sellers like
Ticketmaster, etc. get their seats from what's left after the best seats
have been appropriated by the "powers-that-be." Since the production
company is backing the artist, and paying his/her salary out of the
proceeds, one might conclude that those who purchase tickets from
scalpers are tuffing his/her coffers even more directly. Unlike the
radio stations/promoters/family/friends who get their tix gratis,
scalpers pay for theirs and they in turn charge the public a fee for
those best seats in the house. They're "businessmen" in business for
profit and they'll stay in business as long as the production companies
keep selling them those tickets.
>
>>> Sometimes, but usually over to the side. It all depended on where
>>> the VENUE decided to put the fans. But the seats have always been
>>> within the first 15 rows, just like the fan club advertised.
>> No one is suggesting that the fan club advertised any differently.
>> the first 15 rows can be just about anywhere when you think about
>> it. The first 15 rows of section D are still "the first 15 rows."
>> The first 15 rows of the balcony are still "the first 15 rows."
> Thank you for agreeing with me. So basically you're saying that the
> fan club has fulfilled it's agreement with the fans. Nice of you to
> finally admit that.
>
Once again, for the record, the issue herein is NOT the location of the
seats Meri - it is the disappearance of GC members club perks, to wit,
their access to those preferred seats. "No tickie, no lunchie" - or to
put it in "normal conversational" jargon for you "what good is the menu
without benefit of the meal?" Solution: change restaurants or dont'
eat. Do you think that starving GC members for "soul food" is a good
way to handle the situation? If we are forced to purchase scalper
tickets or less than preferred seating, there'll be fewer available
funds for other Michael Bolton purchases - like albums, charity events,
merchandise, etc.
> :::clipping yet another personal attack:::
>
Who is it that's confused or what was the terminology you used "messed
up? I asked, you still haven't answered. Tsk, tsk...
>
> No, it was a general flier sent out to the general fan club, just as
> Gail or Anna said it was.
>
Define "general" and not with the same moronic "logic" as you defined
"meddling" please. I don't question THAT it went out or who might have
received it. I didn't. If I didn't, there's a good chance other GC
members didn't either. We didn't receive a lot of things that were
promised to us. Shortly after I became a GC member our newsletters
vanished; our quarterly zine vanished - and now our club vanished. Do
you think we got our $50 worth? Maybe we should demand it back en masse
eh? <VBG>
>
> Well, since you already agreed that the fan club is doing its
> job...at no one's expense.
>
WHO agreed that the "fan club is doing its job?" I have complimented
Anna, Gail, and other fans on the good job they do frequently and
publicly. However, I have always contended when confronted with the
former Director of Artist Relations' admonition, that I "spend too much
time on things Bolton," that the way to treat a fan who is voluntarily
providing you with information is NOT to publicly excoriate such help,
but to encourage it. If fans have disappeared it is no doubt because
they were treated in similar fashion. Now that the aggrieved are
speaking out, all the outrageous indignation on "the fan club's" (i.e.
administrators') part is not going to change what has transpired. Such
shoddy customer relations is not good business. Not only do the fans
suffer, the artist suffers as well. The call for "united we stand" was
not for nothing. Administration is not "running" things unless the fans
permit them to do so. When decisions are made, it should be with the
support of the fan base.
>
> As I said before and as you agreed, the promises were kept. And, your
> "contract" was with Fan Emporium not Fan Factory. Fan Emporium no
> longer exists and therefore the contract with them ended when the
> business ended. You cannot have a contract with a business which no
> longer exists any more than you can with a dead person.
>
Correction: what YOU said before was relative only to where the
preferred seats were located and we did not agree on that issue because
you have yet to identify the point of origin for "the first 15 rows."
Secondly, "promises" were NOT kept and that IS the issue at hand. Were
they kept this "discussion" as such would be unecessary. The "contract"
is/was with Fan Emporium and their "heirs and assigns" Fan Factory.
Contractual agreements are binding upon both parties whether they change
hands or names is not the issue. It is common business practice to
restructure businesses, even to change names, perhaps management. No
business can afford to be so cavalier as to breach contracts that are
"incorporated into and have become a part hereof" of any contract
arising from the former contract. BOTH parties must agree. One cannot
act on behalf of the other - especially not when money has been
exchanged! Money was exchanged for goods and services. The fan club
administrators are yet responsible for providing those goods and
services to its LIFETIME members regardless of whether or not they are
profitable. The profit isn't the GC members' problem - it's the
administrator's. It is at the fans' expense.
> If it doesn't matter Linda, why, for goodness sake, do you keep on
> harping on the same points over and over and over even after the
> decision has been made and explained to you numerous times?
>
Who died and left you Queen? YOUR explanations are anything BUT
explanatory, sufficient, or well informed. You could, and you have,
expounded ad infinitum on subjects about which you obviously are more
confused than enlightening. If I am "harping ont he same points" it is
simply to correct a mistake before it is perpetuated beyond correction.
I repeat, THE DECISION WAS NOT MADE BY BOTH PARTIES to the contract.
Therefore, it is an invalid decision and should be immediately and
forthwith regarded as a poor decision that bears either a redress of fan
grievances or retaliatory measures. To say that the fan base will
diminish is a foregone conclusion. That has already been happening and
not without reason. This dictatorial attitude on the part of "some
people" had best stop. I guarantee you that the Maestro will listen to
his fans with a lot more compassion and empathy than they are receiving
from his allegedly "appointed" administrators. As you know, I believe
in "going to the top" and getting things done. Been there...done that.
Ask a certain former DOAR just how far this fan will be pushed before
pushing back! And whatever you do, don't patronize me. You shoudl know
better!
> :::clipping more personal attacks:::
>
And dodging more questions she can't answer.
>
> Then why did you say that an autograph is an autograph and that
> autographs given out via electronic sources are the same as
> "authentic" ones? Now who is being contradictory?
>
Because it is just that. It is by definition "A person's own
signature." What you seem to be confused about is HOW that signature is
effected: via electronic source, personally written by the witness
receiving it, or personally written and given to someone along with a
Certificate of Authenticity attesting to its validity. Michael Bolton's
signature IS his signature and no one else's regardless of how it is
offered to the public for consumption, be it electronically or
personally. Who else's signature do you think it is?
>
> Actually it was a print out given to him by the interviewer and his
> answer was NOT tongue-in-cheek. He actually looked quite
> uncomfortable, amused, but uncomfortable.
>
Oh, of course, that explains it! NOT! Give it up Meri! I've got him
live on tape in interviews - one from England stands out in my mind -
about the "hair scare" issue many moons ago. He said then, and he
continues to say every now and again, that he does indeed read what is
said about him on-line. He knew all about what we were saying on the
AOL board about his haircut and he got a big kick out of it. He also
made mention of it on the Hotline. I remember his words at the time
when he related a story about Andre Agassi's haircut, he said, "Don't
worry about it." You don't suppose that article about him and his
"apple" was meant to imply that he uses his computer to monitor the
weather do you? You claim to know so much about artists and yet you
don't know that most of them have not only set up their own websites in
order to communicate with their fans PERSONALLY, they also care about
what their fans are saying about them in message boards and newsgroups.
That's how they keep an eye on their popularity (rather than read
about themselves in the tabloids likes the Tabloid Tabbies!) As for his
looking "uncomfortable," he probably had the fan club administrator's
blurting out orders whilst he spoke! <ROFL> I find that rather
discomforting, too - wouldn't you?
> I was using theirs as an example of a good website and you twisted
> the meaning of their name and all I was doing was setting the record
> straight.
>
Actually I was just trying to keep you focussed on the issue at hand as
you are always wont to do for me. Just repaying the "favor." <VBG>
>
> You said in a previous post that you weren't going to the new
> website. I guess maybe you decided that isn't not as bad a site as
> you thought.
>
I went to the new website shortly after Gail mentioned she had it up and
running. I POSTED a congratulatory and very favorable post about it in
reply. Once again that selective memory of yours is selecting only what
it wants to.
> :::clipping more personal attacks:::
>
More dancing around the bonfires of her vanity.
>
> The question is why do you feel the need to counter everything
> everyone (not just me) says? Why do YOU feel you need to have the
> last word on every subject? Why do you feel everyone is attacking YOU
> because they disagree with what you said? Why do you continue to
> harp on subjects that are closed?
>
Who else am I "countering?" It isn't the "last word" that I need to
have; were it so, you would not be posting anymore. I do not feel
anyone, much less everyone, is attacking me. YOU are the one constantly
referring/clipping alleged "attacks" that don't exist. Who is
disagreeing with me? YOU? That's a hoot if ever there was one! I
could care less and you know it! As for subjects being "closed" - they
are as "closed" as the minds that closed them. Trust me to open up
those dark corners and shed some light on the subject. I repeat; THE
GOLD CLUB MAY BE DEAD BUT GOLD CLUB MEMBERS ARE VERY MUCH ALIVE - AND
KICKING!!!
>
> See above.. I never disclosed any personal or confidential
> information.
>
Then why all the justification and ado about keeping matters and names
"confidential?" WHO CARES? Consider the source - it is more cause for
laughter than for curiosity.
>
> But isn't it nice that you actually accomplished something with one
> of your posts?
>
Yes, it is. Now what was that something that I accomplished? I'll only
be satisfied if it was soul food for thought.
> :::clipping yet another personal attack:::
>
What was that you were saying about me always feeling "attacked?"
<ROFL> "When in doubt..." be attacked out of an explanation - is that
it?! Meri's solution to lack of intelligence: accuse the other person
of attacking you.
>
>> You mean it's the Maestro's fault or "his people's" fault that they
>> didn't alert the "official club" first?
> They did. That's what I said in the above statement.
>
Rather than confuse her any further, I won't comment on this one.
She'll accuse me of "attacking" her for being the Most Confused of all
Confusers - and she is! She's baffling us with that BS again - that
means she has no idea what she's talking about. What was it the Wizard
said to the Scarecrow in the "Wizard of Oz" when he lamented that he
didn't have a brain? "I know a lot of people without a brain who do a
lot of talking." So do I!
> Again, you twisted the words to suit your purpose. Gail makes every
> attempt to release all information as soon as she has it. She posts
> it to the official website (both for members and non-members) and
> then she also posts it to the various newsgroups and bulletin boards.
> I believe that's going above and beyond the call of duty. She even
> has other people post for her if she's unable to. What a great job
> she does.
>
I am not denying Gail's hard work, her sincerity, her honesty, or her
integrity. She's a terrific gal who's come a long way in a short time.
I'm not negligent of Anna's contributions to this club either. She
has always been one of our best computer resources, sweetest and most
dedicated fans, and a very hard worker. These are two women with whom I
have dealt and have known for several years. I have no complaints with
them personally. I have always lauded the praises of my Bolton Buddies,
whether or not they have agreed with me. That is not the issue here so
don't make it one.
>
> It's no one's "fault" someone asked him a question and he answered
> it. I actually think he was happy to have someone ask, so he could
> talk about it. I'm assuming Michael's office has asked the fan club
> not to post information until they verify it. That's standard
> practice with most fan clubs. Most artists want the information their
> fan club releases to be accurate. There is nothing wrong with that.
> If other sources release the information sooner how is that a
> problem? At least in Michael's club, when a fan writes in to ask if a
> certain piece of information is true that recieve an answer. That is
> a wonderful way to interact with the fans.
>
Why should Michael Bolton have to wait for someone to ask him about a
new album? As for "verifying" any information, one might assume that
his "office" was well appraised of his comings/goings and in timely
fashion would be appraising the fan club - who in turn appraises the
fans (that is if they want the fans' business they will!) There is
"something wrong" with the unnecessarily looong delays with releasing
info to the fan club that we fans have oft found on-line before we heard
about it. Fans first (if they want the fans' dollars!) An even more
"wonderful way" to interact with the fans is to bring the artist closer
to his fans not distance him from them as has been the case over the
last several years. Who's running that show? Michael or "his people?"
You know I've asked him that publicly on several occasions. With his
rebellious nature, I wouldn't put it past him to one day "just keep
going" and take that much needed hiatus from his worldly concerns. I'd
love to see him frolicing - on the beach, walking in the mountains,
dancing in some distant meadow! It's about time he had some "free time"
to think for himself! As a matter of fact, his fans could use a little
"vacation" too! Can't wait for the new album release!!!
>
> It would seem that Michael had an opportunity and he took it. It's
> not like he had to go out of his way. He was at a public event and
> someone asked him a question.
>
Oh, looks like I was ahead of myself. Yes, indeed his rebellious spirit
took the opportunity to do a little promo himself! Good for you,
Maestro!!! You show 'em who's the boss! He's at a lot of public
events; he doesn't always announce new album releases though.
> :::clipping more nastiness:::
>
Paranoia aside, she's just plumb outta excuses ain't she?
>
> HOW can I be betraying a confidence when the information was posted
> publicly by Gail? Gail IS NOT and I repeat, IS NOT the person I was
> talking about regarding Michael's choice in fan club administrators.
> Stick to the subject instead of combining subjects to prove your
> warped sense of reality.
>
SO WHAT?! Who cares? Stop implicating poor Gail! As for "sticking to
the subject" might I suggest that you practice what you preach. As for
"combining subjects," I do believe that "three subjects and three
different sources" is enough to quell anyone's curiosity as to which of
us is NOT sticking to the subject. As for a "warped sense of reality,"
I am not the one constantly whining about being "attacked" by a fellow
fan. I'm trying to help you; now sit still and take your medicine like
a good little girl...<LOL>
>
> You combined two subjects into one to make it appear something was
> contradictory. One subject was the Gold Club and the other was the
> administrators of the club. And you yet you act like it is not true.
> Gail or Anna, I don't recall, said that the information that the GC
> was not taking any more members was sent out in a flier to fan club
> members a couple years ago. You made the accusation that the flier
> either never went out, or that it was only sent to a few select
> people, both of which were false accusations. So if what Gail and
> Anna say is true, why do you question it?
>
I made no "accusations." I made a statement that I did not receive it
and questionned whether or not it had gone to a specific, as opposed to
general, portion of the membership. Who is accusing whom? I am not
questionning either Gail or Anna's veracity - I'm questionning YOURS!
> :::clipping more rantings about me:::
>
Isn't it about time for you to take your meds? How many times are you
going to clip/snip those "attacks" before you come to the realization
that no one is out to get you.
>
> That's off the point yet again, you agreed that "real", authentic
> signatures are worth more than mass-produced ones and you proved my
> point that when a fan asks for an autograph they probably wouldn't be
> happy with a copied one and therefore the Internet cannot be used
> for that purpose. Therefore.. if that is true, then a fan club MUST
> have an office and staff to send snail mail to the fans.
>
No it is not "off the point." As a matter of fact, it IS the point.
YOu are living in a "cave" of your own making and you have become so
accustomed to the darkness that you prefer it to the light. Stay in the
dark if it makes you happy. As for the autograph confusion - see the
statements I made above about it. Even repetition is lost on the likes
of you. As for the office and staff necessary to send out snail mail,
charge shipping and handling charges like everyone else. Raise them
like the post office does. Charge for the newsletter. So many options,
so little brains.
> :::clipping yet another inane attack on me:::
>
By all means, take a breather and take your meds. One can't continue a
"normal" conversation with an abnormal personality.
> I personally will be taking Anna's suggestion and will not discuss
> this subject any longer. Please Linda, why don't you try something
> new and do the same. If you truly feel this should be a positive
> place for supporting Michael and his music ... stop now. Otherwise,
> we'll all know who really starts all of the problems here and then
> keeps them going and going and going.
>
Yes, I'll gladly stop because you've run out of excuses, lies,
confidants and whatever reasoning powers at your "normal" disposure. I
suspect that Anna has already made it quite clear to you that you are
fighting a losing battle - and you are. As to "we'll all know who
really starts all of the problems here and then keeps them going and
going and going," one has but to look at the length and verbosity
contained in your posts to ascertain the "guilty party" herein. "Look
at the mote in your own eye before finding the splinter in your
brother's eye." Take the Bard's advice, "this above all, to thine own
self be true and then thou canst not be false to any man." <3 Linda
BoltonFan90
In article <3F2EF00D...@van-kopp.com>, Linda Gallo <li...@van-kopp.com>
writes:
>He IS here and HE does read this site and by his own admission "any site
>that mentions his name" - where do you think he gets HIS info from - his
>"representatives?"
Once again. Michael has stated many times publicly that he does not read
newsgroups or anything else that relates to him. Here is a video interview:
http://www.au.michaelboltonmusic.com/
Click on "Watch the Interview" then "Symptons of Boltonitis"
Michael's words are very clear.
Linda Gallo
subject line the topic of this thread. <3 Linda
BoltonFan90
to the subject and made the statement below. Anyone reading deserves to know
that it was a deliberately false statement. One that can be refuted by a FACT
---- remember what that is?
http://www.au.michaelboltonmusic.com/
In article <3F31DF8C...@van-kopp.com>, Linda Gallo <li...@van-kopp.com>
Linda Gallo
fans - again - and undermine the efforts of his new album? Give it up!
Please note that you are stating a very subjective opinion, one
with which others DO NOT AGREE. Hence it remains only AN OPINION, not a
statement of fact. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than
to speak and remove all doubt." <3 Linda
Zamboni's Mom
> And your POINT is - what?! To make Michael Bolton look bad with his
> fans - again - and undermine the efforts of his new album? Give it up!
Only YOU, Linda, could possibly think that BoltonFan90 is trying to
make Michael look bad, by calling attention to the fact that the
Australian clip shows Michael displaying clear disdain when confronted
with your looney "Symptoms of Boltonitis" from your even loonier
website.
> Please note that you are stating a very subjective opinion, one
> with which others DO NOT AGREE.
"Others" meaning "Linda Claire Gallo" and her many personalities
(e.g., "Terrie", "Trent" "Pookie", and countless others).
As BoltonFan90 so eloquently said:
http://www.au.michaelboltonmusic.com/
Click on "Watch the Interview" then "Symptons of Boltonitis"
Michael's words are very clear.
(Except to someone who thinks Michael fell in love with her with a
gaze from third base to the cheap seats at the softball game.)
Oh, by the way, I *never* leave this newsgroup. I read it almost
every day, to observe the continuous insane behavior of the craziest
and most obsessed "fan" I have ever seen.
as always,
Zamboni's Mom
Friend to Goats
PS, For all the hot air you've spouted about getting your website back
up after your hard drive was upgraded, I am very disappointed in you.
It's been 8 months since you first announced all your grandiose bigger
& better website plans. Some Michael fan you are.
"I'm not here of my own accord. I'm here by the grace of God to call
His Children home." - Linda Gallo, 7/31/03
Zamboni's Mom
> Methinks you don't understand "our" sense of humor! That's okay -
> we understand each other very well! <VBG>
Still communicating telepathically with Michael, I see.
Linda, all Michael has to do is go to switchboard.com to find you.
That is, if he wanted to find you.
Personally, I don't think it is so wise for a self-admitted victim of
abuse to be listed on Switchboard. But then again, how will Michael
ever find you when the bluebirds finally whisper your name in his ear?
as always,
Zamboni's Mom
Friend to Goats
"Then considered yourself burned to a hellion's crisp! <LOL>" --
Linda Gallo, 8/5/03
Zamboni's Mom
> Linda Gallo rants
>
> :::clipping personal attacks:::
Meri, you have been so stalwart in continuing to rebut Linda's
tirades. God knows she's not worth the time and effort. But I agree
that is is important to let the other fans in this newsgroup know what
she is really all about.
hang in there girl!
Zamboni's Mom
Friend to Goats
"...are you even suggesting, much less positing, that YOU might be the
rational, honest person here?" - Linda Gallo, 8/4/03
Linda Gallo
"comeback?" Then we'll know who the "guilty party" is that starts all
the arguments around here! <LOL> Tsk, tsk...didn't you read Anna's
post? Don't you care what anyone else thinks? You should be ashamed of
yourself "Mom" - what a terrible example you're setting for your little
ice machine! Go play with the goats - their companionship is more
suitable for your mentality. <3 Linda
Linda Gallo
"switchboard.com" indeed! Only YOU would think of something that
mundane for communicating outside the realm of the ordinary. Thanks but
no thanks! We're just fine communicating the way we've always
communicated. <VBG> Stay ice-bound - you're obviously in your
"element!" <ROFL> <3 Linda
Linda Gallo
Well, I'll be darned if it ain't the ice machine's mother - that ole'
f[r]iend to goats - come back to haunt us from hell. Is it Halloween
already? As for disdain, if that was disdain on the Maestro's part, one
can only imagine what his reaction would be to the likes of YOU! <ROFL>
FYI - give credit where it's due please - most of those "looney
Symptoms" were contributed by dues-paying FANS. I collected them and
posted them in one place on my website, like I did with many other MB
tidbits and pieces of info relating to the Maestro that were publicly
accessible to one and all, including the likes of you apparently.
As to your customary "projection" of your psychological problems
upon others, to wit, inventing multiple personalities and thrusting them
upon the unsuspecting readers of this newsgroup, we will all consider
the source - including Terrie, Pookie, Trent, myself and the "countless
others" that you don't believe exist. Three cheers for us "nonentities!"
<LOL> Something tells me that you wish we didn't exist!
As for my "cheap" softball seats to the charity game between the
Bolton Bombers and the Planet Hollywood Allstars on June 14, 1984, we
sat behind the Planet Hollywood Allstars' dugout,(bewteen 3rd base and
home - Michael was on third). We were close enough to "reach out and
touch." You can check the footage on the local news that night when
they panned the audience. You'll see me shining!
Thank you for being so ardent a fan - of mine! I'm flattered that
the mother of an ice machine spends so much time on Things Gallo. Why
not start up a Gold Club for me? As for "obsessions," you don't see me
reading the newsgroup every day for anything about you - as a matter of
fact I don't get to read it every day' I do have better things to do
with my time - like work, clean the house, watch the flowers grow,
communicate with Michael telepathically...ya know important things!
Oh, so you're counting the months since my site's been off-line
eh? And I thought you would have been delighted that it was gone.
After all, you do believe that it's "kooky" and "looney" and whatever
else your flea-bitten little mind has accused it and me of being - and
yet, with all that - you miss it - ME! - enough to be counting the hours
until my triumphant Web Hostest with the Mostest return. I'm touched -
really touched!!! What's your interest in my resurrecting my website?
Just more fodder for tomfoolery? Perhaps a little more victimization of
his fans for your infantile amusement? Or maybe you haven't been able
to hack any websites since so many of them have been disappearing with
the fans who hosted them. Don't you ever wonder WHY?! Mom - you ain't
been doing your homework and now there's nobody to do it for you anymore
is there? Kinda lonely there on the fringes of Bolton Land all alone
hmmmm?! <ROFL> Even all that ice you keep polishing won't prevent
those hellfires from melting you into little lonely puddles. Are you
suffering from "The Symptoms of Lovely Lindatitis?" Want me to repost
them for you? <VBG> Keep guessing when I'm returning in triumphant
splendor - in or out of the grass! I'm having a Bolton Ball knowing
that you miss me so much! <3 Linda
Hill
of the Platinum Club? What will they get for their $40 per year?
1.. World Wide Tour Preferred Seating Privileges. - no use to anyone if
Michael does not tour. Even then, not guaranteed. Didn't I read recently
where one fan ended up seated in row 14?
2.. A Welcome Packet with photos, membership card, and more! - nice,
wonder what "more" is? i.e. worth $40?
3.. Quarterly, International Bolton Bulletin Newsletters. - not likely to
reach overseas fans in time for news to have any relevance - personal
experience of this.
4.. Password and address for Michael's personal Online Information
Center. - useful to keep up-to-date, agreed, but there are other places to
get info
5.. Monthly Online Newsletter. - ? as above, really
6.. Telephone Hot Line number for the latest information and updates. - no
doubt expensive to use ( more cash rolling in to the fan club?), not much
use to overseas fans
7.. Exclusive Merchandise. - if you are into memorabilia, then this is
good. The merchandise I've seen, though, has been pricey - manufacturers
and fan club must benefit from the sales, but also Michael's charities, so
not totally "for profit". I approve, but not my cup of tea personally.
8.. Contests with prizes that are personalized by Michael and even
Backstage Passes!! I'm not really into this kind of thing, though I know
some fans are . I suppose this is one "perk" but can't see where this costs
the fan club much to do.
Admittedly, when I did apply for privileged seats in 2002, I got front
row. Michael cancelled. In 1993, I got fourth row, in 1996, I got front
row - I wasn't a member of any fan club then, I just simply wrote in for
tickets, pure good fortune, I know, but there it is.
I'm not so stupid as to think any organisation can be entirely self-funding.
There are always costs for staffing, premises, equipment, mailing, rental,
storage etc. Lu-Ann knows more about this side of things than me. But to
the tune of $40 per overseas fan?
I joined the Gold Club to show my allegiance to Michael, and to get those
privileged seats, not trust to luck. Like Lu-Ann and Lori, and no doubt
countless others, I feel hard-done-by. It's done now, nothing we can do,
presumably. But I, and probably all those others, need a reason to spend
out again joining the Platinum Club. I'd like to find one, honestly.
I'd like to know just how many overseas fans there were in the Platinum Club
initially, and if the re-subscription rates have dropped since the concerts
were cancelled last year?
"LAJ" <lu_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f12f10f6.03080...@posting.google.com...
Meri
> tirades. God knows she's not worth the time and effort. But I agree
> that is is important to let the other fans in this newsgroup know what
> she is really all about.
>
> hang in there girl!
> Zamboni's Mom
> Friend to Goats
>
Zamboni's Mom,
Thanks for your kind words.
Something I always wondered, are you a friend to real goats? They are
fun creatures, but boy do they ever eat stupid things LOL.
Peace,
Meri
Terrie
Club/Platinum Club changes.
I'm a domestic fan who is a Bolton fan who can't keep up the expense of
being a Bolton fan if all I have to work with is a fan club that, in my
humble opinion, long ago lost track of what a FAN club is.
I ended my yearly membership in 1997 because it was looking more and
more to me that to be a fan in their terms I would have to spend more
and more money and jump through hoop after hoop just for the simple
stuff. Fan clubs do have perks, and by all means enjoy them, but the
original reason I joined Michael's fan club in the first place was for
the tour dates. I didn't care if they were front row seats--I just
wanted to see Michael in concert and have a good time (and in four
eventual trips I have yet to be disappointed). But the tour dates were
being put further and further out of reach of regular fans who wanted
the same experiance I did,...and it just got to the point--and
quickly--that I couldn't keep up. So I gave up--not being a fan, but
being a fan club member.
Now, in this day and age of identity theft, the more I am hearing about
this new version, this database,..the more I choose to not join further.
Have they explained what they do with members' personal information?
Whatever happened to the idea of a good old-fashioned fan network--the
kind actually connects fans, by "take one and pass it along"? Keeps the
momentum going in terms of promoting Michael, and at the same time,
gives each of the feeling that we're a team and promoting Michael is a
team effort?
Terrie