I want to lynch Carl Macek
Jeffrey T. Jhee
The Cat wrote:
>
> 5,000 dollars to the first one of you to knock him down. We'll have
> ourselves a good ol' fashion hangin'!
>
> Alright, posse, LET'S SADDLE UP!
>
> The Cat
--
*****
Jeffrey T. Jhee
j-j...@nwu.edu
AIM: MahKuRoss ICQ: 4289637
The Cat
The Cat
> I think this is a bit hasty.
No no, Jeff, I think its WAY overdue.
The Cat
O.D.
Monsters, Mr. Cat?
"The Cat" <ple...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13e6d0386...@netnews.att.net...
Deszaras
we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called Nazis!
O.D.
Some of us are Gundam Wing fans! LOL!!!
"Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:U_8f5.7660$Uo6.4...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Comic-Kaze
Besides...Macek didn't create the Harmony Gold Monster...he just butcherized
Macross etc... for Harmony Gold to profligate, proliferate...eat women and
children...etc...
He ran Streamline pictures and that bombed out, was dissolved...wHAHAHA...
-Jeremy
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qQ9f5.81305$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Chris Fullbright
for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even when posted
in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
*cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
CavScout
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> You need to lighten up Deszaras.....what are you, are you the PC
Police officer
> for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even
when posted
> in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
>
> *cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
How is "Deszaras" the 'troll' for speaking out against calls for deaths
or labeling someone a 'child molester'?
Besides, you are "busting [his] chops" for "busting everyone's chops".
You are doing what you are compaining that he's doing.
Cav
--
"God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand Russ
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
Franklin, 1759
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Fullbright
CavScout
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
Why? Because I don't drop to the floor and give you praise?
Deszaras
Hey may like a different show than you or I. At least he is a reasonable
man, and just doesnt going around saying someone rapes little children and
the such. Chris, you are an insensitive bastard, thats all you are!
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
news:397DDA62...@premierhome.net...
> You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
>
> CavScout wrote:
>
> > In article <397DAB74...@premierhome.net>,
> > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > You need to lighten up Deszaras.....what are you, are you the PC
> > Police officer
> > > for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even
> > when posted
> > > in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
> > >
> > > *cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
> >
> > How is "Deszaras" the 'troll' for speaking out against calls for deaths
> > or labeling someone a 'child molester'?
> >
> > Besides, you are "busting [his] chops" for "busting everyone's chops".
> > You are doing what you are compaining that he's doing.
> >
Keith
>ourselves a good ol' fashion hangin'!
>
>Alright, posse, LET'S SADDLE UP!
>
>The Cat
Or we could just call him Honey chan from now on....but lynching would probably
be easier.
~Keith
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
~~~
ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
O.D.
"CavScout" <cavs...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lkndh$1sm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <397DDA62...@premierhome.net>,
> Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
>
> > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
>
> Why? Because I don't drop to the floor and give you praise?
>
CavScout
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> That's about right. Show C.F. some goddamn respect!!
Respect is earned not given.
Keith
>we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
>Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called Nazis!
Actually, I see Macek & HG's actions to be more of the Nazi variety.
Indescriminately changing stuff to reflect a culture it wasn't intended to
because of some prejudice against things foreign. Actions against would be
attributed more towards the allience.
Chris Hoberock
Jared
Keith <keit...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725171930...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
Paul Santa Cruz
>>Hmmmm....yes yes. Lets unjustly kill an innocent man for creating something
>>we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
>>Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called Nazis!
>
>Actually, I see Macek & HG's actions to be more of the Nazi variety.
>Indescriminately changing stuff to reflect a culture it wasn't intended to
>because of some prejudice against things foreign. Actions against would be
>attributed more towards the allience.
>
Keith, why would you think that HG made the changes out of "prejudice
against things foreign"? I would think it would be out of the fact
that the intended target audience would not understand some of the
cultural references in the original, not out of prejudice. Viz does
the same things with the Maison Ikkoku manga- they left some things
out that reflected the Japanese education system because they felt it
would be too hard to translate and too difficult for their readers to
comprehend. I seriously doubt prejudice had anything to do with it.
-Paul, who doubts prejudice has anything to do with it.
John Hokanson Jr.
The Cat <ple...@nomail.com> wrote:
> 5,000 dollars to the first one of you to knock him down. We'll have
> ourselves a good ol' fashion hangin'!
>
> Alright, posse, LET'S SADDLE UP!
>
> The Cat
>
Why?
Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not to
mention anime fandom?
Because CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND HIS CONTROL necessitated him editing
together three different shows to form Robotech instead of doing a
straight version of Macross like was originally planned?
Because he released Akira, which might have very well signaled the dawn
of mainsteam anime fandom in the US?
Because dubbing was far and away more profitable and acceptable in the
market at the time, thus bridging the gaps between mainsteam and "weird
foriegn stuff"?
Because, when you get right down to it, his dubbing was actually a
little less obnoxious than the some of the shit that's out today (ie.
Gundam Wing is PAINFUL to listen to)?
Why hang him? I say we all shake his hand.
I think everybody has gone through their "let's kill Macek" phase, but
after maturing a bit, and considering what fandom was back then, he's
not the anti-christ everybody makes him out to be. He certainly didn't
set anime fandom back, because look at where we are now. The man was an
entrepreneur, and knew a good thing when he saw it. I don't necessarily
agree with some of the stuff he did. A lot of his editing wouldn't be
acceptable in today's anime market with today's fans, but it needs to
be put into the a different context for the time period.
--
John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
"Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
bandwidth..."
- Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
O.D.
hehehe...
^_^
"CavScout" <cavs...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ll0q9$9g8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Ihnf5.82610$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>,
> "O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's about right. Show C.F. some goddamn respect!!
>
> Respect is earned not given.
>
> Cav
>
> --
> "God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
> "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand Russ
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
> Franklin, 1759
>
>
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> You need to lighten up Deszaras.....what are you, are you the PC
Police officer
> for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even
when posted
> in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
>
> *cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
>
And what is the original poster if not a troll?
But seriously folks. Carl Macek isn't even an issue anymore. This is
beating a dead and decomposed horse.
I simply can not believe the irony here. He intoduced Macross into the
US. That's a fact. So what if you didn't like it? Check the back of
your Macross Plus tapes and see how Manga Entertainment was able to
capitalize off this.
I had no idea there were so many immature people in a.f.m.
--
John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
"Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
bandwidth..."
- Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
John Hokanson Jr.
And that his facual observation of your stupidity any less valid
because _________?
Jeffrey T. Jhee
changes that Harmony Gold made. However, those changes, no matter how
bad they are to me, don't justify murdering someone.
Keith wrote:
>
> >Hmmmm....yes yes. Lets unjustly kill an innocent man for creating something
> >we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
> >Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called Nazis!
>
> Actually, I see Macek & HG's actions to be more of the Nazi variety.
> Indescriminately changing stuff to reflect a culture it wasn't intended to
> because of some prejudice against things foreign. Actions against would be
> attributed more towards the allience.
>
> ~Keith
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
> Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
> Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> ~~~
> ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
--
Chris Fullbright
I asked if he was a Robotekkie, that all.
Deszaras wrote:
> Chris,
> Hey may like a different show than you or I. At least he is a reasonable
> man, and just doesnt going around saying someone rapes little children and
> the such. Chris, you are an insensitive bastard, thats all you are!
>
> Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
> news:397DDA62...@premierhome.net...
> > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> >
> > CavScout wrote:
> >
> > > In article <397DAB74...@premierhome.net>,
> > > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > > You need to lighten up Deszaras.....what are you, are you the PC
> > > Police officer
> > > > for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even
> > > when posted
> > > > in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
> > > >
> > > > *cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
> > >
> > > How is "Deszaras" the 'troll' for speaking out against calls for deaths
> > > or labeling someone a 'child molester'?
> > >
> > > Besides, you are "busting [his] chops" for "busting everyone's chops".
> > > You are doing what you are compaining that he's doing.
> > >
> > > Cav
> > >
> > > --
> > > "God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
> > > "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand Russ
> > > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> > > Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
> > > Franklin, 1759
> > >
Chris Fullbright
being stupid, he wasnt even talking to me. He was talking to the Cat.
I just wanted to know if he was a Robotekkie, thats all. All you new
guys on this NG have come on here and tried to stir up trouble.
Everyone else knows that Ive been here for a long time and I am No
Troll.
"John Hokanson Jr." wrote:
> In article <397DDA62...@premierhome.net>,
> Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> >
>
> And that his facual observation of your stupidity any less valid
> because _________?
>
> --
> John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> bandwidth..."
> - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
>
Deszaras
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
news:397E2244...@premierhome.net...
> Deszaras, what the HELL are you talking about? Raping little Children?
>
> I asked if he was a Robotekkie, that all.
>
> Deszaras wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> > Hey may like a different show than you or I. At least he is a reasonable
> > man, and just doesnt going around saying someone rapes little children
and
> > the such. Chris, you are an insensitive bastard, thats all you are!
> >
> > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
> > news:397DDA62...@premierhome.net...
> > > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> > >
> > > CavScout wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article <397DAB74...@premierhome.net>,
> > > > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > > > You need to lighten up Deszaras.....what are you, are you the PC
> > > > Police officer
> > > > > for our NG? Quit busting everyone's chops for posting stuff, even
> > > > when posted
> > > > > in jest. Where did you come from anyway?
> > > > >
> > > > > *cough cough* Troll *cough cough*
> > > >
> > > > How is "Deszaras" the 'troll' for speaking out against calls for
deaths
> > > > or labeling someone a 'child molester'?
> > > >
> > > > Besides, you are "busting [his] chops" for "busting everyone's
chops".
> > > > You are doing what you are compaining that he's doing.
> > > >
> > > > Cav
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > "God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
> > > > "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
Russ
> > > > "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch.
> > > > Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
> > > > Franklin, 1759
> > > >
Deszaras
just play insensitive. You dont threaten to lynch someone just because you
disagree with something they created.
There are some instances where saying such things are taken very seriously
and can get you arrested(Such as joking about killing the President).
Jeffrey T. Jhee <j-j...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
news:397E1B0A...@nwu.edu...
Deszaras
Your judging his character, have ANY of you honestly met the man, let alone
know him personally?
I HATE what Bob Skir did to the Transformers mythos, but I wish the man no
harm.
John Hokanson Jr. <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ll4sd$cmo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> --
> John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> bandwidth..."
> - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
>
>
The Cat
> In article <397DDA62...@premierhome.net>,
> because _________?
*PLONK*
The Cat
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> What the Hell are YOU talking about? He didnt say anything about me
> being stupid, he wasnt even talking to me. He was talking to the Cat.
He was pointing out the irony that you're bitching about somebody
bitching about somebody bitching about something that shouldn't even be
an issue anymore.
This whole discussion is childish.
> I just wanted to know if he was a Robotekkie, thats all.
He is. So am I. So are a lot of people. You said it as if it's a bad
thing. It shouldn't even factor into it. I'm more of a Macross fan than
a Robotech fan, but I pay my respects to Robotech partly because it got
me into Macross and anime fandom as a whole. I saw DYRL as a kid
shortly after Robotech. I probably wouldn't have seen DYRL and
everything else if I hadn't used Robotech as a gateway.
This is why, from my point of view, Macek-bashing is stupid (detailed
in my other post). For all his faults (and I admit to each and every
one of you there were many), the guy got me....got a LOT of
people....into bigger and better things. Even old time "Macek-bashers"
who poke fun at him will be the first to turn around and give some
degree of credit for advancing the hobby. The young kids, on the other
hand, either don't know who he is (because, as I said, he's old news),
or attack him without even fully knowing all sides of the story.
So although this is a probably a futile effort, I think Macross and
Robotech fans should make a better effort to get along.
> All you new
> guys on this NG have come on here and tried to stir up trouble.
Except I've been on USENET for 3-4 years. Run a Deja search. I don't
want to start trouble. I ran a search for "Carl Macek" because I was
looking for some information, and I saw a friend of mine being pushed
around.
No...I don't start trouble. I finish trouble.
> Everyone else knows that Ive been here for a long time and I am No
> Troll.
>
> "John Hokanson Jr." wrote:
>
> > In article <397DDA62...@premierhome.net>,
> > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> > >
> >
> > And that his facual observation of your stupidity any less valid
> > because _________?
> >
John Hokanson Jr.
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> >Hmmmm....yes yes. Lets unjustly kill an innocent man for creating
something
> >we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
> >Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called Nazis!
>
> Actually, I see Macek & HG's actions to be more of the Nazi variety.
> Indescriminately changing stuff to reflect a culture it wasn't
intended to
> because of some prejudice against things foreign. Actions against
would be
> attributed more towards the allience.
>
Keith, Get a life. You've already been run off the RT message board
because you can't even interpret Macross source material properly. You
claimed that folds don't take time, and acted as if RT fans were
complete morons, even though Macross doesn't necessarily apply to RT
canon, but more importantly, your contention contradicts the folds we
see in Macross Plus and 7. My point being that Macross fandom is better
off without you, because you bring completely asinine arguments to the
table, with charges against Robotech that can easily be thrown back in
your face. Thus you end up reflecting badly on Macross fandom.
For example:
Macek is not a "nazi" and American's are not afraid of other cultures.
By that logic, Kawamori is a xenophobe of his own culture because he
wanted to Americanize the names in the defunct live-action movie
protect (what was Hikaru going to be named? "Richie"?). As is Kodansha
because they wanted to change the names in the failed US Rayearth TV
adaptation.
I mean...duh. This argument flawed on so many levels.
How many kids in 1984-85 would watch a show with Japanese names and
refferences in it? How big was the anime video market then, or just the
video market as a whole?
> ~Keith
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
> Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
> Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> ~~~
> ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
>
--
John Hokanson Jr.
The Cat <ple...@nomail.com> wrote:
> In article <8ll5vf$dc4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, yangn...@my-deja.com
says...
> > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> > >
> >
> > And that his facual observation of your stupidity any less valid
> > because _________?
>
Reciprocated.
*PLONK*
>
> The Cat
O.D.
(*O.D. hands John a sword and Kevlar vest and shoves him into the pit with
Keith, all the while screaming, "ENTERTAINMENT!!! ENTERTAINMENT!!
MWUA-HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA!!!")
Notice to everyone who's new here: Mind the emoticon.
^_^
"John Hokanson Jr." <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lllfa$of3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <397E22E2...@premierhome.net>,
> > > In article <397DDA62...@premierhome.net>,
> > > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > > You must be a Robotekkie, Cavscout
> > > >
> > >
> > > And that his facual observation of your stupidity any less valid
> > > because _________?
> > >
Chris Fullbright
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> Oooh....you finish trouble! A NG bad ass in the flesh!
>
Let's just say I've been around, and I should know better than to get
involved in this crap, but it's just too tempting to pass certain
things up.
I suppose its too much to ask for you to respond to my other points
or listen to reason, is it?
This group has really changed since the last time I visted it. Whatever
happened to the old guard like Egan Loo (and a couple of other people
whose names escape me at the time, and have hopefully not faded away)?
YF21Bowman
>man, and just doesnt going around saying someone rapes little children and
>the such. Chris, you are an insensitive bastard, thats all you are!
>
Be NICE!!
Jerk.
Guld Bowman
YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
remove "dooby" to mail me
"Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
Not much room left, so let's just say nothing is stock besides the body :)
Chris Fullbright
few of us are all pissed off because some new guys appeared and are starting
s*** .
O.D.
^_^
"Chris Fullbright" <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
news:397F2C5A...@premierhome.net...
John Hokanson Jr.
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, welcome to Alt.fan.macross!
>
> (*O.D. hands John a sword and Kevlar vest and shoves him into the pit
with
> Keith, all the while screaming, "ENTERTAINMENT!!! ENTERTAINMENT!!
> MWUA-HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAAA!!!")
>
> Notice to everyone who's new here: Mind the emoticon.
> ^_^
Thanks. :)
I kinda wish Cat had used one so I'd know he wasn't serious.
>
> "John Hokanson Jr." <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8lllfa$of3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Keith
>against things foreign"? I would think it would be out of the fact
>that the intended target audience would not understand some of the
>cultural references in the original, not out of prejudice.
Let's analyze this, the "intended audience" is believed to not "understand" or
"accept" such things from other cultures such as foreign "names," or even the
display of foreign writing, on the grounds of it being "unfamiliar."
This isn't prejudiced how?
>Viz does
>the same things with the Maison Ikkoku manga- they left some things
>out that reflected the Japanese education system because they felt it
>would be too hard to translate and too difficult for their readers to
>comprehend. I seriously doubt prejudice had anything to do with it.
>
>-Paul, who doubts prejudice has anything to do with it.
Pssst, that's what translation notes are for. You don't create understanding
through censorship, just perpetuate ignorance.
>First of all, I'd like to point out that I ardently oppose most of the
>changes that Harmony Gold made. However, those changes, no matter how
>bad they are to me, don't justify murdering someone.
I threatoned to lynch who when now?
easn...@my-deja.com
> My point exactly! Comparing Carl Macek and HG tactics used by the
Nazis is
> just play insensitive.
Not insensitive, just stupid.
You dont threaten to lynch someone just because you
> disagree with something they created.
What if they created the ultra-mega-vibro-auto-death-masher-machine.
And it went around on automatic slicing, dicing, cutting, mutilating
and frappee-ing all the people and small woodland creatures in sight.
Macek's cool, Harmony Gold sucks....
> There are some instances where saying such things are taken very
seriously
> and can get you arrested(Such as joking about killing the President).
>
> Jeffrey T. Jhee <j-j...@nwu.edu> wrote in message
> news:397E1B0A...@nwu.edu...
> > First of all, I'd like to point out that I ardently oppose most of
the
> > changes that Harmony Gold made. However, those changes, no matter
how
> > bad they are to me, don't justify murdering someone.
> >
> > Keith wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hmmmm....yes yes. Lets unjustly kill an innocent man for creating
> something
> > > >we disagree with. Next lets do some ethnic cleansing.
> > > >Oops....sorry Cat, been there, done before! They were called
Nazis!
> > >
> > > Actually, I see Macek & HG's actions to be more of the Nazi
variety.
> > > Indescriminately changing stuff to reflect a culture it wasn't
intended
> to
> > > because of some prejudice against things foreign. Actions against
would
> be
> > > attributed more towards the allience.
> > >
> > > ~Keith
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > > Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
> > > Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
> > > Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> > > ~~~
> > > ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > >
> > > http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
> >
> > --
> > *****
> > Jeffrey T. Jhee
> > j-j...@nwu.edu
> > AIM: MahKuRoss ICQ: 4289637
>
>
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> This IS the old guard. Most of us have been here for 2 years or so
and a
> few of us are all pissed off because some new guys appeared and are
starting
> s*** .
I'm a lurker and an infrequent one at that, but I'm not hardly new.
Deja only goes as far back as '99 right now, but once they reopen their
archive, it's not unheard of that you'd find older posts.
Actually, I was talking primarily of people like Windjammer, Paul
Lampshire, ect. These are people I remember...
Oh, and I'm sorry I burst your bubble with the truth (which you are
incapable of replying to). That's what you get for posting crap in a
public forum. Public messages are subject to public replies.
>
> "John Hokanson Jr." wrote:
>
> > In article <397E70A2...@premierhome.net>,
> > Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > > Oooh....you finish trouble! A NG bad ass in the flesh!
> > >
> >
> > Let's just say I've been around, and I should know better than to
get
> > involved in this crap, but it's just too tempting to pass certain
> > things up.
> >
> > I suppose its too much to ask for you to respond to my other points
> > or listen to reason, is it?
> >
> > This group has really changed since the last time I visted it.
Whatever
> > happened to the old guard like Egan Loo (and a couple of other
people
> > whose names escape me at the time, and have hopefully not faded
away)?
> >
> > > > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > > > Before you buy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> > > > "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> > > > bandwidth..."
> > > > - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
> > > >
> > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > Before you buy.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> > "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> > bandwidth..."
> > - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
>
--
John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
"Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
bandwidth..."
- Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
CavScout
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> This IS the old guard. Most of us have been here for 2 years or so
and a
> few of us are all pissed off because some new guys appeared and are
starting
> s*** .
You may want to review WHO started what. You may be "old guard" but you
also need glasses.
Cav
--
"God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
Russell
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
Franklin, 1759
Keith
>
>Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not to
>mention anime fandom?
Because he screwed with something that wasn't his creation in the first place.
And perpetuated the practice of bad translations even after. Throwing out
scripts aside from the basic plot, and writing in what he "thinks" should be
there is not an uncommon practice with him.
>Because CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND HIS CONTROL necessitated him editing
>together three different shows to form Robotech instead of doing a
>straight version of Macross like was originally planned?
Because the "circumstances" didn't require it at all. It could have just as
easily been done as an anthology.
>Because he released Akira, which might have very well signaled the dawn
>of mainsteam anime fandom in the US?
Because the crappy way in which he released it, you'll note both Pioneer U.S. &
Manga U.K. are re-dubbing the dub, & re-translating it in general.
>Because dubbing was far and away more profitable and acceptable in the
>market at the time, thus bridging the gaps between mainsteam and "weird
>foriegn stuff"?
Because even dubbing doesn't require such dramatic change as is common with
him, and because things don't become any less foreign when you censor out the
other culture.
>Because, when you get right down to it, his dubbing was actually a
>little less obnoxious than the some of the shit that's out today (ie.
>Gundam Wing is PAINFUL to listen to)?
Less obnoxoius? Hardly. And unlike most companies of today who release subs
along with the dub, it was a rare occasion to get anything subbed from
Streamline, and even then, it was a bad translation.
>Why hang him? I say we all shake his hand.
I don't shake the hands of those I don't respect.
>I think everybody has gone through their "let's kill Macek" phase, but
>after maturing a bit, and considering what fandom was back then, he's
>not the anti-christ everybody makes him out to be. He certainly didn't
>set anime fandom back, because look at where we are now.
Where we are now is where we'd be without him just the same.
>The man was an
>entrepreneur, and knew a good thing when he saw it. I don't necessarily
>agree with some of the stuff he did. A lot of his editing wouldn't be
>acceptable in today's anime market with today's fans, but it needs to
>be put into the a different context for the time period.
No, it needs to be put into the context of what was just as possible then.
O.D.
"John Hokanson Jr." <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lnd5m$1k2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil
Kong. I found out about Robotech 4 years ago when a friend noticed my
countless valk doodles and said "Hey cool, you watch Robotech?", to which I
replied "What the frig are you talking about? Robo-what?".
O.D.
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:RWHf5.84070$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
Keith
>because you can't even interpret Macross source material properly.
I have a life, and can interpret both Macross & Robotech properly. Beauty of
multi-tasking. Though if you think that debate had anything to do with the
nature of the source material (aside from the definition of a fold), let alone
an incorrect "interpretation" of it, then you obviously weren't even remotely
paying attention.
>You
>claimed that folds don't take time,
Facts that fold doesn't involve time distortion aren't "claims."
>and acted as if RT fans were
>complete morons,
If you see them that way, that's your business. What I did was catch a blatant
continuity error, one in which someone along the lines got fold confused with
hyperspace. Intentional or not, it doesn't fit in with the usuage of the term
"fold" or the depiction of the ships traveling, not to mention the timeframes
they occur in.
What it amounts to is the attempt to describe a fold as a process that speeds
up a ship enough to make time within move slower, while time outside
comparatively moves faster. This is by nature not a fold, and would cause
significant delays in all depictions of ships folding anywhere. This is not
what happens, as such, the dialogue was wrong.
>even though Macross doesn't necessarily apply to RT
>canon,
It does when Macross concepts are being used, as not even remotely a thorough
enough job was done in "removing" all things Macross if that was the attempt.
Trying to change a fold into a hyperspace jump just doesn't work.
>but more importantly, your contention contradicts the folds we
>see in Macross Plus and 7.
Actually no, it doesn't, as there are two different types of fold.
-Direct Point to Point Fold: In which space is completely condensed between two
points. Illustrated in every series except Plus.
-Partial Fold: In which "most" of the space between two points is condensed to
cut down on general travel time & fold energy required. Difference being it
uses conventoinal engines to travel through the "partially" folded space, but
again, no faster than light speeds are achieved. This is the fold depicted in
Plus, and "usually" used by Zentradi ships.
>My point being that Macross fandom is better
>off without you, because you bring completely asinine arguments to the
>table,
Purely baselesss lander. What Macross fandom is better without are people such
as yourself who excuse mistreatment of the material, make accusations without
understanding concepts, & support companies that are out to screw it over for
their own benefit.
> with charges against Robotech that can easily be thrown back in
>your face.
Such as your misunderstanding of fold and how it isn't hyperspace? All trying
to "throw that back in my face" does is make you foolish for arguing against
something you don't understand.
>Thus you end up reflecting badly on Macross fandom.
Thus you perpetuate ignorance with such statements.
>For example:
>
>Macek is not a "nazi"
Never said he was a nazi, I said his actions were comparable on a lessor scale.
>and American's are not afraid of other cultures.
No, but companies treat them as such, which is why such foolish changes are
made in the first place. "That won't be accepted like that because it's too
foreign, so it must be changed to something more familiar."
>By that logic, Kawamori is a xenophobe of his own culture because he
>wanted to Americanize the names in the defunct live-action movie
>protect (what was Hikaru going to be named? "Richie"?).
You'll note it's "defunct," as such nothing was finalized.
>As is Kodansha
>because they wanted to change the names in the failed US Rayearth TV
>adaptation.
It's a Clamp project, they just own the rights, and it's again feeding into
that mentality that "Americans" are too xenophobic to accept anything foreign.
>I mean...duh. This argument flawed on so many levels.
Yes, your argument is flawed. You're posting it why again?
>How many kids in 1984-85 would watch a show with Japanese names and
>refferences in it? How big was the anime video market then, or just the
>video market as a whole?
How big did it have to be? Why wouldn't a kid watch something with Japanese
names in it? How is it any different from any sci-fi with "alien" names in it?
Paul Santa Cruz
>>Keith, why would you think that HG made the changes out of "prejudice
>>against things foreign"? I would think it would be out of the fact
>>that the intended target audience would not understand some of the
>>cultural references in the original, not out of prejudice.
>
>Let's analyze this, the "intended audience" is believed to not "understand" or
>"accept" such things from other cultures such as foreign "names," or even the
>display of foreign writing, on the grounds of it being "unfamiliar."
>
>This isn't prejudiced how?
Keith, define prejudice. There is a huge difference between chaning
things so an audience can understand it and not intentionally showing
something because it is perceived as inferior and wrong. Again, how
many American 10-15 year olds in the year 1985 understood the
conventions of Japanese honorifics or the way names are presented? If
HG and Macek were so "prejudiced", how come he kept the relationship
between Minmei/may and Kyle/Kaifun intact. I remember thinking it odd
when I first saw the show in 85 that a cousin could profess love for
another cousin. If they were so prejudiced, it would have been
extremely easy to make Minmei and Lynn Kyle longtime family friends in
Robotech with a few simple lines of dialogue. Instead, they remained
cousins.
>>Viz does
>>the same things with the Maison Ikkoku manga- they left some things
>>out that reflected the Japanese education system because they felt it
>>would be too hard to translate and too difficult for their readers to
>>comprehend. I seriously doubt prejudice had anything to do with it.
>
>Pssst, that's what translation notes are for. You don't create understanding
>through censorship, just perpetuate ignorance.
I seriously doubt this could be considered "censorship". It seems
more like trying to appease an American audience who might not be
familiar with the Japanese education system as a whole. Censorship has
more to do with not wanting a particular message to get out. I think
you are confusing "Artistic License" with "Censorship."
-Paul, www.dictionary.com
Chris Fullbright
saying ANYTHING to me, except for getting mad at me for calling someone a
robotekkie. How is that exactly bursting my bubble with the truth?
Chris Fullbright
starts!
CavScout wrote:
> In article <397F2C5A...@premierhome.net>,
> Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > This IS the old guard. Most of us have been here for 2 years or so
> and a
> > few of us are all pissed off because some new guys appeared and are
> starting
> > s*** .
>
> You may want to review WHO started what. You may be "old guard" but you
> also need glasses.
>
> Cav
>
> --
> "God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
> "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
> Russell
> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
> Franklin, 1759
>
Chris Fullbright
Robotekkie-blinded logic...and if Keith did indeed get run off the RT NG or Board,
well then good, no one should subject themselves to that kind of torture.
LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
ah hahahahahaha
Vreetai7
>
> Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
Yeah, but unfortunately he seems to have been supplanted by Keith. Too
bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal twinkle
when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
Tim
the preaching at the end of 80's cartoons as talking down to the kids. That
would have been a good idea, useful information instead of just preaching or
forgettable safety tips, but I don't think there would be enough room for it
with commercials. They would have to cut Robotech up more. When they had it
on Cartoon Network, they already had to cut some out of each episode.
-Tim
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:5aLf5.84224$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> I heard somewhere that they had made Kyle an adopted son, making him
cousin
> by law only. I can't remember exactly. Of course, I could be wrong.
>
> And god forbid that children learn about other cultures on TV. They could
> have had a segment at the end of each show called "Highlight on Japan"
where
> they would explain the japanese culture, and tie in the cartoon. It'd be
> like Sailor says or something.
>
>
> Paul Santa Cruz <pot...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:397f738b.687689@news...
Jeffrey T. Jhee
Phil wrote:
>
(The alphabet backwards, A B C D E F G H I...H G...ETCHI, which
> means dirty sex.).
HG = dirty. How appropriate. ;-)
It was just a joke. Please don't flame me about it if you disagree.
Phil
hcky...@my-deja.com
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> >Keith, why would you think that HG made the changes out of "prejudice
> >against things foreign"? I would think it would be out of the fact
> >that the intended target audience would not understand some of the
> >cultural references in the original, not out of prejudice.
>
> Let's analyze this, the "intended audience" is believed to
not "understand" or
> "accept" such things from other cultures such as foreign "names," or
even the
> display of foreign writing, on the grounds of it being "unfamiliar."
>
> This isn't prejudiced how?
I just don't see how the changes that HG made are worthy of a
designation such as 'prejudiced'. HG legally purchased the rights to
Macross to make it into Robotech, now I'm aware that some here believe
this is the worst thing to happen in animation history, but first and
foremost HG aimed for Robotech to be a cartoon aimed towards children.
In Japan animation is aimed more towards an older audience, does it
makes sense, from a purely business view, (without getting into the
artistic debate) to make some minor changes to generate more interest
in the show from the desired demographic? So they made the animation
something that an American child could understand? They're showing the
show to an American audience? Is there something wrong with that
logic? I just don't see how this is significant to be even considered
with racial/cultural prejudice? It might be lazy on HG's part not to
attempt to try to go with the cultural refrences and try to have them
understood, but by changing them they are not making any kind of
statement like 'our (proto?)culture is better than yours!' in this
situation, just making a sound business decision. But anyway that's my
2 cents worth of rambling feel free to flame away.....
-Jared -not the other Jared I've seen post here a few time (or Auden
for that matter ;) )
John Hokanson Jr.
"O.D." <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
>
Thanks for the info O.D.!
I appreciate it a lot.
Phil
"Remember kids, guns are bad, unless you're using them to save the world.."
"Thanks Sgt Slaughter!"
"You're welcome kids, cause now you know.."
"AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!"
Tim <as...@gci.net> wrote in message
news:snv3i9...@corp.supernews.com...
John Hokanson Jr.
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> >Why?
> >
> >Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not
to
> >mention anime fandom?
>
> Because he screwed with something that wasn't his creation in the
first place.
Only with the expressed permission of Studio Nue and the rights holders.
> And perpetuated the practice of bad translations even after.
Except this is a lie. Sandy Frank and countless others came before him.
Inaccurate and bad translations are commonplace. The King James Bible
isn't even remotely similar to the original texts.
<snip>
> >Because CIRCUMSTANCES BEYOND HIS CONTROL necessitated him editing
> >together three different shows to form Robotech instead of doing a
> >straight version of Macross like was originally planned?
>
> Because the "circumstances" didn't require it at all. It could have
just as
> easily been done as an anthology.
>
Then it wouldn't have been a continuous TV series.
> >Because he released Akira, which might have very well signaled the
dawn
> >of mainsteam anime fandom in the US?
>
> Because the crappy way in which he released it, you'll note both
Pioneer U.S. &
> Manga U.K. are re-dubbing the dub, & re-translating it in general.
>
And you'll note that he also released as a sub because of fan demand
for it. You'll note that it was the first anime to get mainstream
review. I believe it was the first one Roger Ebert even touched. He
spoke very highly of it BTW.
> >Because dubbing was far and away more profitable and acceptable in
the
> >market at the time, thus bridging the gaps between mainsteam
and "weird
> >foriegn stuff"?
>
> Because even dubbing doesn't require such dramatic change as is
common with
> him, and because things don't become any less foreign when you censor
out the
> other culture.
>
Nope. A person's perception of it does however.
I agree that it didn't require it, although he gets slammed by purists
for releasing mostly dubbed material.
> >Because, when you get right down to it, his dubbing was actually a
> >little less obnoxious than the some of the shit that's out today (ie.
> >Gundam Wing is PAINFUL to listen to)?
>
> Less obnoxoius? Hardly. And unlike most companies of today who
release subs
> along with the dub, it was a rare occasion to get anything subbed from
> Streamline, and even then, it was a bad translation.
>
Prove how the sub was gross mistranslation. Prove how subs would have
been anywhere near as profitable then as today with the quantum leap
we've seen in fanbase numbers over the past couple of years.
> >I think everybody has gone through their "let's kill Macek" phase,
but
> >after maturing a bit, and considering what fandom was back then, he's
> >not the anti-christ everybody makes him out to be. He certainly
didn't
> >set anime fandom back, because look at where we are now.
>
> Where we are now is where we'd be without him just the same.
>
A gross misinterpretation of the facts. Macek and Streamline brought
anime out of the closet in this country. Period.
> >The man was an
> >entrepreneur, and knew a good thing when he saw it. I don't
necessarily
> >agree with some of the stuff he did. A lot of his editing wouldn't be
> >acceptable in today's anime market with today's fans, but it needs to
> >be put into the a different context for the time period.
>
> No, it needs to be put into the context of what was just as possible
> then.
No. It needs to be put into the context of what would have SOLD then.
>
> ~Keith
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
> Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
> Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> ~~~
> ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
> http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
>
--
John Hokanson Jr.
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> >Why?
> >
> >Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not
to
> >mention anime fandom?
>
> Because he screwed with something that wasn't his creation in the
first place.
out
> scripts aside from the basic plot, and writing in what he "thinks"
should be
> there is not an uncommon practice with him.
Blah, blah, blah....
3. Cuts and edits in anime that's being aired on US television are at
worst a necessary evil and nothing to cry about. They by no means sully
the quality, concept, or memory of the original.
13. If you get deeply, personally offended over how your favorite show
was treated for domestic release, please direct your energies to the
many charitable organizations combatting *real* problems.
Here, Keith. Read this, you might actually learn something:
http://mircette.megami.net/95.html
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> Wow John, seems to me like YOU are the one starting crap with your
> Robotekkie-blinded logic...and if Keith did indeed get run off the RT
NG or Board,
> well then good, no one should subject themselves to that kind of
torture.
>
It's pathetic how you hide behind Keith like that. You're obviously
incapable of arguing anything on your own...
> LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> ah hahahahahaha
>
Yep. And they have the most devistating weapon of all. The killfile.
*PLONK*
John Hokanson Jr.
keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> >Keith, Get a life. You've already been run off the RT message board
> >because you can't even interpret Macross source material properly.
>
> I have a life, and can interpret both Macross & Robotech properly.
Beauty of
with the
> nature of the source material (aside from the definition of a fold),
Bingo. Definition of a fold.
>
> >and acted as if RT fans were
> >complete morons,
>
> If you see them that way, that's your business. What I did was catch
a blatant
> continuity error, one in which someone along the lines got fold
confused with
> hyperspace.
Except it's irrelvant, as the definition isn't necessarily the same,
and the definition used in Macross wouldn't necessarily apply.
>
> >even though Macross doesn't necessarily apply to RT
> >canon,
>
> It does when Macross concepts are being used, as not even remotely a
thorough
> enough job was done in "removing" all things Macross if that was the
attempt.
> Trying to change a fold into a hyperspace jump just doesn't work.
>
But it did in Macross Plus.
> >but more importantly, your contention contradicts the folds we
> >see in Macross Plus and 7.
>
> Actually no, it doesn't, as there are two different types of fold.
>
> -Direct Point to Point Fold: In which space is completely condensed
between two
> points. Illustrated in every series except Plus.
>
> -Partial Fold: In which "most" of the space between two points is
condensed to
> cut down on general travel time & fold energy required. Difference
being it
> uses conventoinal engines to travel through the "partially" folded
space, but
> again, no faster than light speeds are achieved. This is the fold
depicted in
> Plus, and "usually" used by Zentradi ships.
>
And this is proven in the Macross dialogue or source material where?
If there's a continuity error here, I think it's in Macross.
O.D.
"GEEEE I-I-I JOOOOOOOOOOE!!"
^_^
Man, I wonder if G.I. Joe: The movie is on DVD?
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote in message
news:_AMf5.84292$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
John Hokanson Jr.
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
> I heard somewhere that they had made Kyle an adopted son, making him
cousin
> by law only. I can't remember exactly. Of course, I could be wrong.
>
> And god forbid that children learn about other cultures on TV. They
could
> have had a segment at the end of each show called "Highlight on
Japan" where
> they would explain the japanese culture, and tie in the cartoon.
It'd be
> like Sailor says or something.
Which would be pretty funny if they talked about Japan with caucasian
looking people walking around claiming to be Japanese (yeah, Misa looks
very Japanese). Christ. That would really confuse the kids. It actually
makes more sense that they're not Japanese when you really think about
it. Of course, nobody ever thinks of THAT in their zeal to bash
Americanized anime.
Phil
7 it plays a large part. As the founders of the universe, not only did they
create the Zentradi and Humans, but left the programming bug inside the
Zentran that allowed the Macross to win in the end, and created Protodeviln,
who started the Supervision Army Fleet, which the Macross was part of before
being damaged and dropping out of the sky. Pretty important stuff eh? But,
in Robotech, it's degraded to something akin to high octane fuel.
Most people wouldn't know that Tuna in Japanese is Maguro. Which is a word
play on Macross, which is pronounced Ma ku ross. So, again, without
knowing, the american kids miss out on another joke (When Rick (ugh) and
Minmei were trying to catch the tuna in space). The Macross 7 fan sub
points out such jokes, as when Michael explained why Rex was meeting Basara
to Mylene(The alphabet backwards, A B C D E F G H I...H G...ETCHI, which
means dirty sex.). Also, in the Miss Macross episode, they didn't explain
why they showed Minmay's measurements, which is essential to Japanese
dating, but rude to ask here in NA.
And anyways, most of us just really don't like Reba West's singing. Love
goes away is so much better than We Will Win it's not funny.
<hcky...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8lo2jn$hu0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20000726144909...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
Paul Santa Cruz
<vree...@brawleyonline.com> wrote:
>"O.D." wrote:
>>
>> Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
>
>Yeah, but unfortunately he seems to have been supplanted by Keith. Too
>bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal twinkle
>when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
No, Windjammer has never been a flamer. In fact, her has been one who
has always tried to keep this NG on topic and Macross-related. I
suspect he doesn't enjoy coming here anymore.
-Paul, who thinks it is a shame
Deszaras
O.D. <ros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0nNf5.84597$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> Don't forget the G.I. Choir:
> "GEEEE I-I-I JOOOOOOOOOOE!!"
>
> ^_^
>
> Man, I wonder if G.I. Joe: The movie is on DVD?
Actually it is. It also contains almost thirty "And knowing is half the
battle" messages. Its kinda neat.
Good luck finding it though. Apparently its been selling like hotcakes at
stores, and the demand has been difficult to meet. If your interested in
buying it just order it directly from www.rhino.com
They're the distributors of it, so thats your best bet.
Paul Santa Cruz
wrote:
>No, Windjammer has never been a flamer. In fact, her has been one who
>has always tried to keep this NG on topic and Macross-related. I
>suspect he doesn't enjoy coming here anymore.
Whoops. I meant "He has been..."
-Paul
O.D.
vest he gave him ^_^)
"ENTERTAINMENT!! ENTERTAINMENT!! MWUA-HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAA!!!"
@_@
"John Hokanson Jr." <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lo7q0$lh6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20000726151738...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
> keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> > >Why?
> > >
> > >Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not
> to
> > >mention anime fandom?
> >
> > Because he screwed with something that wasn't his creation in the
> first place.
> > And perpetuated the practice of bad translations even after. Throwing
> out
> > scripts aside from the basic plot, and writing in what he "thinks"
> should be
> > there is not an uncommon practice with him.
>
> Blah, blah, blah....
>
> 3. Cuts and edits in anime that's being aired on US television are at
> worst a necessary evil and nothing to cry about. They by no means sully
> the quality, concept, or memory of the original.
>
> 13. If you get deeply, personally offended over how your favorite show
> was treated for domestic release, please direct your energies to the
> many charitable organizations combatting *real* problems.
>
> Here, Keith. Read this, you might actually learn something:
>
> http://mircette.megami.net/95.html
>
> --
> John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> bandwidth..."
> - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
>
>
O.D.
(*O.D., who feels seven again! ^_^)
"Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:FTNf5.10409$Uo6.5...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
hcky...@my-deja.com
Well, I'll be the first to admit RT's shortcomings. I think my main
point of contention is that calling the editing a result of prejudice
isn't fair. But I'm sure I'll be more than happy to go towards the
Macross side of the equation (I'm on the fence right now) once the
Animego DVD's come out and I get used to hearing different voices
coming out of the characters mouths. At the same time I'm be more than
happy to not have Reba West, but like many of us, I'm still gonna hold
a place in my heart for RT.
Jared W.
Chris Fullbright
have, you know that it almost takes a Cold day in Hell for me to agree with
Keith, let alone "Hide" behind him. And if you think i am such a pussy I
am afraid to argue with anyone, scroll up and read the posts where Keith
and YF21Bowman and I go at it.
"John Hokanson Jr." wrote:
> In article <397F786F...@premierhome.net>,
> Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> > Wow John, seems to me like YOU are the one starting crap with your
> > Robotekkie-blinded logic...and if Keith did indeed get run off the RT
> NG or Board,
> > well then good, no one should subject themselves to that kind of
> torture.
> >
>
> It's pathetic how you hide behind Keith like that. You're obviously
> incapable of arguing anything on your own...
>
> > LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > ah hahahahahaha
> >
>
> Yep. And they have the most devistating weapon of all. The killfile.
>
> *PLONK*
>
> --
> John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> bandwidth..."
> - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
>
John Hokanson Jr.
Vreetai7 <vree...@brawleyonline.com> wrote:
> "O.D." wrote:
> >
> > Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
>
> Yeah, but unfortunately he seems to have been supplanted by Keith. Too
> bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal
twinkle
> when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
>
Windjammer never bothered me. He seemed like a very cool guy. Which is
why I brought him up.
Keith is one can short of a sixpack, and I fear it shows in his
posting.
John Hokanson Jr.
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
> Protoculture was an important part of the Macross story, as even in
Macross
> 7 it plays a large part. As the founders of the universe, not only
did they
> create the Zentradi and Humans, but left the programming bug inside
the
> Zentran that allowed the Macross to win in the end, and created
Protodeviln,
> who started the Supervision Army Fleet, which the Macross was part of
before
> being damaged and dropping out of the sky. Pretty important stuff
eh? But,
> in Robotech, it's degraded to something akin to high octane fuel.
>
In the books, they try to turn in into something more. Somebody
commented that it becomes akin to Dune's spice.
I didn't mind Robotech's modification of it into fuel, because there is
a historical precept for wars starting over that. If left up to it, I
could think of a lot worse things to turn it into.
> Most people wouldn't know that Tuna in Japanese is Maguro. Which is
a word
> play on Macross, which is pronounced Ma ku ross. So, again, without
> knowing, the american kids miss out on another joke (When Rick (ugh)
and
> Minmei were trying to catch the tuna in space). The Macross 7 fan sub
> points out such jokes, as when Michael explained why Rex was meeting
Basara
> to Mylene(The alphabet backwards, A B C D E F G H I...H G...ETCHI,
which
> means dirty sex.). Also, in the Miss Macross episode, they didn't
explain
> why they showed Minmay's measurements, which is essential to Japanese
> dating, but rude to ask here in NA.
>
I don't think the original Macross TV series was really that uniquely
Japanese to the point where an American viewer would suffer culture
shock. Measurements in a beauty contest make sense. The tuna "joke" is
lost, but it was never that funny of a joke anyways (it was more of a
visual pun).
BTW, my fansubs of Macross 7 (Central Anime) include a note
about "hentai" when Mylene and her bodyguard are having that
conversation. If there were a commercial release, it's something that
would have to be explained to the casual viewer in liner notes or
something.
> And anyways, most of us just really don't like Reba West's singing.
Love
> goes away is so much better than We Will Win it's not funny.
>
Entirely understandable. I thought "Stagefight" was WAY worse. At least
We Will Win wasn't ridiculously overplayed. It would have been
interesting if they did english language versions of Mari Iijima's
songs. "My Boyfriend is a Pilot" was alluded to in the dialogue,
although never actually performed.
It's worth pointed out that at AX, Iijima-san commented that Reba West
made an excellent voice for Minmay, although she didn't feel the same
way about the music.
John Hokanson Jr.
hcky...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > And anyways, most of us just really don't like Reba West's singing.
> Love
> > goes away is so much better than We Will Win it's not funny.
>
> point of contention is that calling the editing a result of prejudice
> isn't fair. But I'm sure I'll be more than happy to go towards the
> Macross side of the equation (I'm on the fence right now) once the
> Animego DVD's come out and I get used to hearing different voices
> coming out of the characters mouths. At the same time I'm be more
than
> happy to not have Reba West, but like many of us, I'm still gonna hold
> a place in my heart for RT.
>
You took the words right out of my mouth.
> Jared W.
John Hokanson Jr.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote:
> Wow John, seems to me like YOU are the one starting crap with your
> Robotekkie-blinded logic...
What the hell is "Robotekkie-blinded logic"? Pointing out that despite
all the rabid hate-mongering, Carl Macek really ISN'T the anti-christ
(and I never said he was all mighty savior either)?
Okay...I'm guilty, and proud of it. Somebody needs to be the voice of
reason once and awhile...
> and if Keith did indeed get run off the RT NG or Board,
> well then good, no one should subject themselves to that kind of
> torture.
>
What type of torture? People pointing out he's flat wrong? He can't
seem to comprehend what applies to Macross doesn't necessarily apply to
Robotech, and he's not even consistant where Macross is concerned
either. Ask Cavscout, or Stan Bundy (bigtime Macross fan who pointed
out how the folds in Macross, specifically the latter series' like Plus
and 7, are not all "zero time"), or anybody else that was there.
> LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Interesting bit of trvia. Not only does Super Dimension Cavaly Southern
Cross have the most goddamn ugly mecha designs (I've thrown up things
that look better than the Logan, and the having helicopters in space is
retarded) I've ever seen, but I've actually seen VERY little of it in
RT form. Most of my experience with RT centers around the Macross Saga
(first 36 eps), which goes a long way toward explaining why I'm a
Macross fan.
> ah hahahahahaha
Whatever. I don't think you've been paying attention at all. All I'm
asking is for people to be a little more objective.
>
> Keith wrote:
>
> > >Keith, Get a life. You've already been run off the RT message board
> > >because you can't even interpret Macross source material properly.
> >
> > I have a life, and can interpret both Macross & Robotech properly.
Beauty of
> > multi-tasking. Though if you think that debate had anything to do
with the
> > nature of the source material (aside from the definition of a
fold), let alone
> > an incorrect "interpretation" of it, then you obviously weren't
even remotely
> > paying attention.
> >
> > >You
> > >claimed that folds don't take time,
> >
> > Facts that fold doesn't involve time distortion aren't "claims."
> >
> > >and acted as if RT fans were
> > >complete morons,
> >
> > If you see them that way, that's your business. What I did was
catch a blatant
> > continuity error, one in which someone along the lines got fold
confused with
> > hyperspace. Intentional or not, it doesn't fit in with the usuage
of the term
> > "fold" or the depiction of the ships traveling, not to mention the
timeframes
> > they occur in.
> > What it amounts to is the attempt to describe a fold as a process
that speeds
> > up a ship enough to make time within move slower, while time outside
> > comparatively moves faster. This is by nature not a fold, and would
cause
> > significant delays in all depictions of ships folding anywhere.
This is not
> > what happens, as such, the dialogue was wrong.
> >
> > >even though Macross doesn't necessarily apply to RT
> > >canon,
> >
> > It does when Macross concepts are being used, as not even remotely
a thorough
> > enough job was done in "removing" all things Macross if that was
the attempt.
> > Trying to change a fold into a hyperspace jump just doesn't work.
> >
> > >but more importantly, your contention contradicts the folds we
> > >see in Macross Plus and 7.
> >
> > Actually no, it doesn't, as there are two different types of fold.
> >
> > -Direct Point to Point Fold: In which space is completely condensed
between two
> > points. Illustrated in every series except Plus.
> >
> > -Partial Fold: In which "most" of the space between two points is
condensed to
> > cut down on general travel time & fold energy required. Difference
being it
> > uses conventoinal engines to travel through the "partially" folded
space, but
> > again, no faster than light speeds are achieved. This is the fold
depicted in
> > Plus, and "usually" used by Zentradi ships.
> >
> > ~Keith
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > Kanashii dekigotoga blue-ni someta kokoromo
> > Tenshi no enogu de nurikaeruyo
> > Omoinomamani -Lynn Minmay
> > ~~~
> > ORE NO UTA WO KIITE! -Basara Nekki
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> > http://members.aol.com/KeithL78/macross
>
>
--
O.D.
I don't get it... o_O
"John Hokanson Jr." <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8logss$rl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <397F2D0D...@brawleyonline.com>,
> Vreetai7 <vree...@brawleyonline.com> wrote:
> > "O.D." wrote:
> > >
> > > Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
> >
> > Yeah, but unfortunately he seems to have been supplanted by Keith. Too
> > bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal
> twinkle
> > when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
> >
>
> Windjammer never bothered me. He seemed like a very cool guy. Which is
> why I brought him up.
>
> Keith is one can short of a sixpack, and I fear it shows in his
> posting.
>
Vreetai7
a pretty nice flame war between the Macross and Robotech groups, and
Windjammer was right up there with everyone else when it came to flames
(It all started due to some crossposting I seem to remember). Not
necessarily a criticism as much as an observance. :)
Paul Santa Cruz wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:25:19 +0000, Vreetai7
> <vree...@brawleyonline.com> wrote:
>
> >"O.D." wrote:
> >>
> >> Windjammer pops in from time to time, on a need to pop-in basis.
> >
> >Yeah, but unfortunately he seems to have been supplanted by Keith. Too
> >bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal twinkle
> >when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
>
> No, Windjammer has never been a flamer. In fact, her has been one who
> has always tried to keep this NG on topic and Macross-related. I
> suspect he doesn't enjoy coming here anymore.
>
Vreetai7
> Windjammer never bothered me. He seemed like a very cool guy. Which is
> why I brought him up.
Agreed for the most part, although I'd pretty much nominate Jeffrey as
being the most reasonable of the "old guard" here. I had some problems
with my newsreader for a while, and couldn't get alt.fan.macross for
ages (and I don't like using Deja to read posts). It recently cleared
itself up, and I was surprised to see Windjammer's few posts, as he was
pretty much the "leader" of this group for a while (ironic, if it's true
that Peter Walker actually created this group).
> Keith is one can short of a sixpack, and I fear it shows in his
> posting.
Either that, or he's developed a strategy specifically designed to
devastate this newsgroup...
CavScout
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
> But,
> in Robotech, it's degraded to something akin to high octane fuel.
And this is bad? A war over resources is hardly anything new or
unusual. In Robotech the Zentraedi were after the SDF1 because it held
the 'key' to the Masters' power supply. In Macross (original) they were
after it why? Because of the original owners of the ship?
Cav
--
"God is always with the strongest battalions." -Frederick the Great
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -Bertrand
Russell
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin
Franklin, 1759
Phil
Claudia looks like an african american, Capt Global looks like a russian,
and Roy looks either german or american. The only person that really is
confusing is Max(It's Jenius goddamit!), cause he has blue hair, and a name
that is decidly not Japanese.
If you really think about it, my "jet black" hair is really a dark shade of
brown, so technically, I'm a brunette, but my citizenship card says my hair
is black, as well as by eyes, which are brown by the way (This is because
flat black does not occur in nature). So the coloring of Macross is
correct.
And saying what you said is sorta racist, cause I know many so called
"white" people that can speak chinese more fluent than I can. It doesn't
matter who teaches the kids, as long as they are taught. Remember people,
the world is a global village.
Phil
Macross cool was unlike Gundam, where brute force won the day, Culture was
the ultimate weapon, more effective than the Grand cannon. To this day,
that single aspect just, like, WOW! It's just cool beyond words, and I'm
truly sorry if you don't understand that. That is why I must agree with
Keith, who, if you had paid attention to an earlier debate (a doozy of one
too), agrees with me totally on this issue. Macross isn't all about Mecha.
It's about a war and a song, and how they defeated an armada of 4 million
with a singular ship and an idol singer. Robotech still has the war, but
the meaning behind the song is lost. Perhaps you should watch Ai Obete
Imasuka if you still don't get it.
CavScout <cavs...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lpkuk$lva$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil
not crazy.
Hey Keith, you should join the military. The armed forces need a few good
men, and I'm sure you wouldn't be worried about marines checking you out in
the showers ^_^.
CavScout
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
> Hey Keith, you should join the military.
Fortuantly the military has standards.
Phil
superiorty complex. Some of the list makes total sense, but some were just
bashing fans. Are sports fans any different?
What I agree on:
1. Web Pages shouldn't have MIDI's unless they can be turned off. I have
my MP3 player on all the time, and it really fucks up my computer.
2. We shouldn't discuss sex and religion when talking about a kiddy show.
3. Don't sing at cons.
4. Don't cross dress (Well, it's not on the list, but I hate it when I see
guys dressed up like Chun Li @_@)
5. If your over 20 and talk about Sasami or Chibi Usa like she's your sex
slave, you're a freak.
What I don't agree on:
1. Dubs are the spawn of Satan. Some are good, some are bad. I punish the
bad ones, don't mind the good ones. But bear in mind that many of the jokes
in anime are ad libbed, cause the voice actors actually record together,
unlike in America where they do it in seperate takes. Plus, mouthes not
moving with lips really is annoying. And besides, if it was dubbed, I
wouldn't be able to listen to Megumi Hayashibara's cute voice ^_^.
2. Your stealing when buying Fansubs. Actually, the distributors rely on
fansub sales to determine which title would be better to release, as I know
ADV actively supports fan subbers. I think the writers on the list are just
being rich snobs. "I only wear genuine Tommy Hilfigier, blah blah blah."
Shaddup.
3. Anime episode site web masters should be shot. Most anime distribution
sites only offer fansubs, and pretty bad quality ones at that, and remove
them when they get licensed. Distributors really don't care about them.
4. You're a nerd if you learn about japanese culture. Really, the
superiorty complex really is getting boring. If they want to learn about
japan, that's their own problem.
But really, if you stop over defending Robotech, Keith would shut up. I'm
not lying. He didn't talk about Robotech for a month and behaved well until
someone decided to let the cat out of the bag.
John Hokanson Jr. <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lo7q0$lh6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20000726151738...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
> keit...@aol.com (Keith) wrote:
> > >Why?
> > >
> > >Because he created something that got a lot of us into Macross, not
> to
> > >mention anime fandom?
> >
> > Because he screwed with something that wasn't his creation in the
> first place.
> > And perpetuated the practice of bad translations even after. Throwing
> out
> > scripts aside from the basic plot, and writing in what he "thinks"
> should be
> > there is not an uncommon practice with him.
>
> Blah, blah, blah....
>
> 3. Cuts and edits in anime that's being aired on US television are at
> worst a necessary evil and nothing to cry about. They by no means sully
> the quality, concept, or memory of the original.
>
> 13. If you get deeply, personally offended over how your favorite show
> was treated for domestic release, please direct your energies to the
> many charitable organizations combatting *real* problems.
>
> Here, Keith. Read this, you might actually learn something:
>
> http://mircette.megami.net/95.html
>
> --
> John "Gameman" Hokanson Jr. --- is...@usagi.com
> "Flames don't kill bandwidth, people kill
> bandwidth..."
> - Damien Roc on r.a.a.m.
>
>
YF21Bowman
>LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
Hehe...or "This is Rick Hunter calling all nearby RDF units". HAH! And we get
to find out who the "real" robotech masters are in that new robotech thing.
Guld Bowman
YF21B...@aol.com ICQ#=32965161
remove "dooby" to mail me
"Be true to your school"- Beach Boys
Proud owner of an Express Minicocker
Not much room left, so let's just say nothing is stock besides the body :)
YF21Bowman
Tried Macross Plus, and achieved a modest success.
Chris Fullbright
rather than mecha reliant. Dont believe me? Watch 0080: War in the Pocket and
tell me Gundam is all about the mecha....
Chris Fullbright
YF21Bowman wrote:
> >
> >LOOK OUT, ITS THE *Gasp* ROBOTECH MASTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >ah hahahahahaha
>
> Hehe...or "This is Rick Hunter calling all nearby RDF units". HAH! And we get
> to find out who the "real" robotech masters are in that new robotech thing.
>
Phil
that the Culture aspect of Macross is unique. Cause in the end, in Gundam,
it's always the side that mass produces the cooler mobile suit first that
wins.
Chris Fullbright <cfull...@premierhome.net> wrote in message
news:39807CF8...@premierhome.net...
Keith
I did not kick windjammer out of anywhere.
>Too
>bad, as at least Windjammer had a little bit more of a maniacal twinkle
>when flaming, as opposed to Keith's kind of Manson Family rabidity. ;)
I don't flame, I debate.
Jeffrey T. Jhee
Vreetai7 wrote:
>
> Oh gosh, it's been what, about 2, maybe 2-1/2 years agao that there was
> a pretty nice flame war between the Macross and Robotech groups, and
> Windjammer was right up there with everyone else when it came to flames
> (It all started due to some crossposting I seem to remember). Not
> necessarily a criticism as much as an observance. :)
>
Don't you mean "observation?" :-)
Yeah, it was two summers ago. Though that spanned two NG's, in terms of
volume, it's nothing compared to this.
--
*****
Jeffrey T. Jhee
j-j...@nwu.edu
AIM: MahKuRoss ICQ: 4289637
Jeffrey T. Jhee
Vreetai7 wrote:
>
> "John Hokanson Jr." wrote:
>
> > Windjammer never bothered me. He seemed like a very cool guy. Which is
> > why I brought him up.
>
> Agreed for the most part, although I'd pretty much nominate Jeffrey as
> being the most reasonable of the "old guard" here.
Thank you.
I had some problems
> with my newsreader for a while, and couldn't get alt.fan.macross for
> ages (and I don't like using Deja to read posts). It recently cleared
> itself up, and I was surprised to see Windjammer's few posts, as he was
> pretty much the "leader" of this group for a while (ironic, if it's true
> that Peter Walker actually created this group).
>
Actually, I remember looking this up last year, and it was actually
Brian Talarico, owner of the macross.org and robotech.org domains, who
created this group. I believe he did that on September of 1997.
> > Keith is one can short of a sixpack, and I fear it shows in his
> > posting.
>
> Either that, or he's developed a strategy specifically designed to
> devastate this newsgroup...
--
John Hokanson Jr.
"Phil" <phil...@home.com> wrote:
>
> But really, if you stop over defending Robotech, Keith would shut
up. I'm
> not lying. He didn't talk about Robotech for a month and behaved
well until
> someone decided to let the cat out of the bag.
This basically started when somebody said they wanted to kill Macek for
extremely petty reasons. It's difficult not to respond to that.
As for defending Robotech. By all means, don't like Robotech. It wasn't
THAT great of a show. I wouldn't mind so much if there was were some
reason and truthfulness behind his venom, but there's not. I personally
don't see how you people can stand him.
John Hokanson Jr.
Hikaru possibly. Misa is sorta a stretch.
> Lyn Minmay looks chinese,
> Claudia looks like an african american, Capt Global looks like a
russian,
> and Roy looks either german or american.
Global is supposed to be Itallian. The whole Russian angle was a
byproduct of Robotech that seeped into Macross fandom and is
perpetuated to this day.
>
> And saying what you said is sorta racist, cause I know many so called
> "white" people that can speak chinese more fluent than I can.
I said caucasian, and I don't follow. I'm pointing out that by making
Misa and Hikaru American instead of Japanese, it works just as well
with the footage and is less distracting to the average American.
I'm speaking in the context of those who don't recognize that anime
characters are drawn that way (you have to basically shut out
everything you've learned up until now, to see where I'm coming from).
This irony tends to escape many people who bash the name or background
changes, as many don't realize that they've become used to the wild
hair colors and inconsistant body characteristics that take the notion
of ethic determination on the basis of visualization and stand it on
it's head. These people who have become used to this concept aren't who
the show is marketed toward.
There is a perfectly non-racist reason why these shows are marketed in
such a way on US television.
> It doesn't
> matter who teaches the kids, as long as they are taught. Remember
people,
> the world is a global village.
>
Which is what Macross depicts. A UN effort. There's nothing really
inherently Japanese about Macross that would justify calling a US
adaptation of it an attempt to perversely shield American children from
Japanese culture, like Keith's rant would suggest. Robotech carried
over the concept of an international effort. This much is expained in
the first five minutes of narration of episode one.
Phil
lovable, like a kitten. If not for trolls like CavScout, Keith would be
debating on the placement of vernier thrusters with Windjammer or something.
The religion thread just got ugly on both sides, so Keith's really not to
blame, as he had the right to bash religion just as much as Chris had the
right to have one (I'm christian myself thank you). Like, I've been here
for, 2 months, and have felt nothing but welcomed by Keith, cause I never
tried to provoke him. He's defending himself and his beliefs. Can't blame
a guy for that.
John Hokanson Jr. <yangn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8lqeel$aoe$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Phil
global to me). Ok, granted Misa and Lisa isn't much of a stretch, but as an
asian, I feel gipped that Hikaru is no longer japanese. What's wrong with a
strong asian lead?
YF21Bowman
a few months back, but fortunately reneged. He is not, however, as active a
poster as he once was.
Jeffrey T. Jhee
Phil wrote:
> What's wrong with a
> strong asian lead?
Do you realize the can of words that this statement might open? Haven't
we had enough controversy here lately? ;-)