Don Rickles & Johnny's cigarette case
Rugby Dan
Capn...@gmail.com
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpxN3IxYw-o
Ahhh...I remember watching that debacle when it originally aired, and
LMAO.
Good times.
Carl
R H Draney
I remember watching the night Rickles broke the box, him freezing and looking
terrified while Ed McMahon very seriously intoned how much that box meant to
Johnny...then the following night watching Johnny reach for the box, having the
lid come off in his hand and everyone in the theatre went silent, leading up to
the famous trip across the hall....r
--
What good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone?
Gary
> CapnC...@gmail.com filted:
Wow, Carson was saying some racially sensitive stuff there! I know he
was ripping on Rickles, but still...
Gary
randwill
"Gary" <garycolin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b8e2047e-62e7-4b7e...@j78g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Wow, Carson was saying some racially sensitive stuff there! I know he
> was ripping on Rickles, but still...
>
> Gary
That seems odd to my ears too. I wonder why? Is it evidence of how overly
politically correct we've become? I don't think Carson meant anything
insulting by it. I wonder if the black actor was offended at the time? Are
we a better society because we don't joke like that anymore on television?
Donz5
> "Gary" <garycolin_cliff...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
My sense was that Carson's actions weren't as spontaneous as they
appeared. It seems to me that there's no way that no one on his staff
would have informed him before the show that his cigarette case had
been damaged and by whom.
So I think that Carson knew in advance that Rickles was taping next
door, that he'd confront Rickles, and that the control rooms of both
shows knew in advance as well. It helps explain how we got pictures
directly from the Rickles show (instead of Johnny's mobile cameraman).
And Johnny then turned the tables on Rickles, having the upper hand
and then _acting_ like Rickles, with his racially-tinged jokes at the
black actor (I think that was Jeff Hollis).
Meanwhile, Giants/Patriots rematch. Yes.
Bill Kawalec
"randwill" <rwilli...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:yyTkj.38513$WT3....@fe07.news.easynews.com...
No, I don't think we are.
>
johnny bobby bee
> I wonder if the black actor was offended at the time?
He couldn't have been very offended. He reaches out to shake Johnny's
hand at the very end.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously.
--Benjamin Franklin
lola...@webtv.net
remarks out of the clip.
Bill Kawalec
<lola...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13310-479...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
> In the recent Rickles docu on HBO they edited Johnny's "hey a black man"
> remarks out of the clip.
>
sad. IMO, that wasn't even the questionable part. That would be the "cotton
mill" remark that came later.
Traci
And it was still all a joke. No malevolent intent was meant by Carson.
And it was funny.
You should see Rickles show now. Still as un-PC as ever. And sill as
funny as always. I also recommend seeing Lisa Lampinelli at least once
live. You want un-PC? Holy crap!
Traci
ronnie
> Bill Kawalec says...
>
>
>
> > <lolajo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> >news:13310-479...@storefull-3213.bay.webtv.net...
> > > In the recent Rickles docu on HBO they edited Johnny's "hey a black man"
> > > remarks out of the clip.
>
> > sad. IMO, that wasn't even the questionable part. That would be the "cotton
> > mill" remark that came later.
>
> And it was still all a joke. No malevolent intent was meant by Carson.
> And it was funny.
>
whole shtick was priceless. Carson was truly the Master.
-ronnie
randwill
"Donz5" <do...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:fa4f4d8a-c8b4-405c...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 20, 9:36 pm, "randwill" <rwilliams4...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
So I think that Carson knew in advance that Rickles was taping next
door, that he'd confront Rickles, and that the control rooms of both
shows knew in advance as well. It helps explain how we got pictures
directly from the Rickles show (instead of Johnny's mobile cameraman).
--------------------
Especially considering the immediate availability of the hand mike with the
long cord and the presence of the mobile cameraman. Although Dave regularly
has hand-held cams on the floor, I don't think that was an everyday thing
for Carson.
Looking at old Carson shows is still great fun for me, but a lot of the
stuff that was played as spontaneous, seems must likely pre-planned to my
more sophisticated television-viewer eyes.
Gary
> <lolajo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
Actually the line from Carson that really hit me in the face was "hang
him"! Did I really hear that?
Seems impossible to image that was ever acceptable. Does Rickles say
stuff like that? Anyway, Rickles always appears to juggle to whole
thing just right to me.
Gary
lola...@webtv.net
"hang him"! Did I really hear that?
Seems impossible to image that was ever acceptable. Does Rickles say
stuff like that? Anyway, Rickles always appears to juggle to whole thing
just right to me.
Gary>>>
What Rickles does on TV and in his nightclub act are 2 different things.
I don't know what his act is like now apart from what was shown on the
HBO doc but when I saw him in the late 70's and late 80's in Vegas, he
played it often "over" the line. When I saw him in 89 at the Golden
Nugget, he picked out a black guy and did a whole bit on how the guy was
related to gorillas and imitated the guy as an ape. He made seveal slave
references. He also made fun of a Japanese man, associating him with
world war 2 torture. He also made fun of italians, germans and jews. Non
of the targets got mad and they all laughed heartily. They were all
thrilled Don picked on them. Carson, who was well aware of Rickles's
act, was just mocking what Rickles did in his act.
A far as the Carson walk over being preplanned, it's still possible it
was NOT preplanned. Carson did seem to really be suprised by his broken
cigarette box. Just because they used the CPO Sharky camera's doesn't
prove it was pre planned. Since the Carson show was taped, they could
have edited that feed into the show during post production. Didn't they
sometimes switch to the "Live At 5" feed when Dave would walk in on
them?
Donz5
> <<<Actually the line from Carson that really hit me in the face was
> "hang him"! Did I really hear that?
> Seems impossible to image that was ever acceptable. Does Rickles say
> stuff like that? Anyway, Rickles always appears to juggle to whole thing
> just right to me.
> Gary>>>
>
> What Rickles does on TV and in his nightclub act are 2 different things.
> I don't know what his act is like now apart from what was shown on the
> HBO doc but when I saw him in the late 70's and late 80's in Vegas, he
> played it often "over" the line. When I saw him in 89 at the Golden
> Nugget, he picked out a black guy and did a whole bit on how the guy was
> related to gorillas and imitated the guy as an ape. He made seveal slave
> references. He also made fun of a Japanese man, associating him with
> world war 2 torture. He also made fun of italians, germans and jews. Non
> of the targets got mad and they all laughed heartily. They were all
> thrilled Don picked on them. Carson, who was well aware of Rickles's
> act, was just mocking what Rickles did in his act.
I agree with that. Which is what I wrote but not as succinctly.
>
> A far as the Carson walk over being preplanned, it's still possible it
> was NOT preplanned. Carson did seem to really be suprised by his broken
> cigarette box.
I suggest he was pretending to be surprised to help sell the bit. As I
wrote, I find it inconceivable that no one on Johnny's staff would
have kept the news of the broken case from him before the show.
> Just because they used the CPO Sharky camera's doesn't
> prove it was pre planned. Since the Carson show was taped, they could
> have edited that feed into the show during post production.
Not knowing for sure, but I seriously doubt that.
> Didn't they
> sometimes switch to the "Live At 5" feed when Dave would walk in on
> them?
I believe they didn't. I would tape Dave's walk-on's during the Live
at Five broadcast especially because the feed was different from the
LN feed broadcast later that night.
LN would use the Live at Five feed when checking in (without Dave
actually dropping by); there was the Steve O'Donnell/Gerard Mulligan
guest appearance, promoting the first Top Ten book.
R H Draney
>
>On Jan 21, 7:57=A0pm, lolajo...@webtv.net wrote:
>>
>> A far as the Carson walk over being preplanned, it's still possible it
>> was NOT preplanned. Carson did seem to really be suprised by his broken
>> cigarette box.
>
>I suggest he was pretending to be surprised to help sell the bit. As I
>wrote, I find it inconceivable that no one on Johnny's staff would
>have kept the news of the broken case from him before the show.
>
>> Just because they used the CPO Sharky camera's doesn't
>> prove it was pre planned. Since the Carson show was taped, they could
>> have edited that feed into the show during post production.
>
>Not knowing for sure, but I seriously doubt that.
Having seen both the episode where Rickles broke the box and the one where
Carson discovered it on the nights they originally aired, I can tell you that
the version of the latter shown on anniversary shows and the like has been
edited down...Johnny spent an agonizing couple of minutes standing around in the
hall outside the "CPO Sharkey" soundstage deciding whether he could go in with
the red light on...the time from when he first confronted Rickles until the
"Sharkey" cameras picked up the feed has also been telescoped considerably...I'm
guessing the "Tonight Show" people were running around frantically the whole
time getting plugged into the "Sharkey" cameras and they made the cutover the
instant it was feasible to do so....
I used to *watch* "CPO Sharkey" during its short run...after that night, I kept
hoping to recognize the scene that Carson interrupted when it aired, but the
staging and the people in the scene were the same in so many episodes (and being
a military show the costumes never changed) that I was never able to identify
it....r
boston...@yahoo.com
> Donz5 filted:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 21, 7:57=A0pm, lolajo...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> >> A far as the Carson walk over being preplanned, it's still possible it
> >> was NOT preplanned. Carson did seem to really be suprised by his broken
> >> cigarette box.
>
> >I suggest he was pretending to be surprised to help sell the bit. As I
> >wrote, I find it inconceivable that no one on Johnny's staff would
> >have kept the news of the broken case from him before the show.
>
> >> Just because they used the CPO Sharky camera's doesn't
> >> prove it was pre planned. Since the Carson show was taped, they could
> >> have edited that feed into the show during post production.
>
> >Not knowing for sure, but I seriously doubt that.
>
> Having seen both the episode where Rickles broke the box and the one where
> Carson discovered it on the nights they originally aired, I can tell you that
> the version of the latter shown on anniversary shows and the like has been
> edited down...Johnny spent an agonizing couple of minutes standing around in the
> hall outside the "CPO Sharkey" soundstage deciding whether he could go in with
> the red light on...the time from when he first confronted Rickles until the
> "Sharkey" cameras picked up the feed has also been telescoped considerably...I'm
> guessing the "Tonight Show" people were running around frantically the whole
> time getting plugged into the "Sharkey" cameras and they made the cutover the
> instant it was feasible to do so....
>
Something called Master Control where all feeds in the building have
to go throug. Certainly they(MC) knew what was going on.
Carson sold it that night. It was/is priceless.
Bill
Donz5
"Pat McCormick (who was writing for Johnny at the time and who's
visible briefly in the hallway when Carson is walking from Stage 1 to
Stage 3) told me that it was all planned and worked out in advance,
except that Rickles and his cast weren't told in advance. The
producers of CPO SHARKEY were, however. In fact, they had to arrange
for Rickles to be over on that set -- the one nearest the door Carson
would be coming in -- at just the right moment. That 'coincidence'
alone should tip people off that it was all arranged."
Also, "all the allegedly 'racist' things Carson said there were just
him quoting
Rickles's act, the same way he called Don a big dummy."
Gary
Thanks Donz.. I know Carson was just taking off Rickles, but its just
hard in these PC times to imagine anyone saying such things on TV now.
Gary
lola...@webtv.net
of selling it. One of the things that made it so believable was that
Carson would often find things slightly different on his desk or set
from the previous guest host and he would always mention it and do five
minutes on it.
Rugby Dan
If I'm not mistaken, as Johnny was leaving to go back to his
desk Rickles said to his audience (as kind of a send-off),
"Johnny Carson, ladies and gentlemen" and Carson yelled
"They KNOW who I AM!"
boston...@yahoo.com
You are correct sir. Im buying the HBO doc on DVD,
Bill
Rugby Dan
It's on the Best of Carson VHS set I bought years ago