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Re: Blocked Byway ..
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DaveB
Apr 25, 2012, 9:18:49 AM4/25/12
to
In article <9viqt9...@mid.individual.net>, notchec...@hotmail.com
says...
>
> Just thought someone might like to know I've been out doing my bit..
>
> http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1926055-post13706.html
Ah.. The concrete block Disco filter. :-)
It looks like it could have been driven round with a narrower vehicle,
but there again, I wasn't there.
I don't know the area, do you have a grid reference, and I'll look on
the GLASS database, see what's noted.
Dave B.
says...
>
> Just thought someone might like to know I've been out doing my bit..
>
> http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/1926055-post13706.html
Ah.. The concrete block Disco filter. :-)
It looks like it could have been driven round with a narrower vehicle,
but there again, I wasn't there.
I don't know the area, do you have a grid reference, and I'll look on
the GLASS database, see what's noted.
Dave B.
Message has been deleted
DaveB
May 1, 2012, 5:10:09 AM5/1/12
to
In article <a07p31...@mid.individual.net>, notchec...@hotmail.com
says...
> SE 61860 00210
>
Hi Paul.
According to my OS 2004 maps, that's an ORPA north of the railway, and a
Restricted Byway south of the tracks. But I only use them as a rough
guidance these days...
However, the GLASS Trailwise database, does list both parts as OK for
motors. (Even Warren Lane to the raiway.)
Their UID numbers for this 'way' are...
SE6100-01 for the North/West part, and SE6100-02 for the South/East
part.
Those seem to work if you enter them into the UID: box, under "Find and
item:" on the page at http://www.trailwise.org.uk/
(You'll need to let that site/page run scripting etc.)
If you can give me the near exact location of the obstruction, I can
enter that into the system, so others know there might be issues.
I see there is a farm (Manor Farm) nearby, guess the owner is a little
bit "anti" ?
Cheers.
Dave B.
says...
> SE 61860 00210
>
Hi Paul.
According to my OS 2004 maps, that's an ORPA north of the railway, and a
Restricted Byway south of the tracks. But I only use them as a rough
guidance these days...
However, the GLASS Trailwise database, does list both parts as OK for
motors. (Even Warren Lane to the raiway.)
Their UID numbers for this 'way' are...
SE6100-01 for the North/West part, and SE6100-02 for the South/East
part.
Those seem to work if you enter them into the UID: box, under "Find and
item:" on the page at http://www.trailwise.org.uk/
(You'll need to let that site/page run scripting etc.)
If you can give me the near exact location of the obstruction, I can
enter that into the system, so others know there might be issues.
I see there is a farm (Manor Farm) nearby, guess the owner is a little
bit "anti" ?
Cheers.
Dave B.
Message has been deleted
DaveB
May 2, 2012, 11:04:40 AM5/2/12
to
In article <a0cj24...@mid.individual.net>, notchec...@hotmail.com
says...
> Yeah, my 'older' OS shows it as restricted but my latest shows it as a
> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
> Obstruction is at the coordinates I posted .. right next to the point
> where the road/tarmac changes to dirt, where the Gas/Electric compound
> boundaries end.
>
> Yeah, Farmer hated it when a Bridleway/Cyclepath was recently put in,
> he thinks he owns _all_ of it ..
I think we've all come accross landowners or tennants like that, sadly.
OK, I've added the comment that there is an obsrucion at :-
SE 61860 00210 on the GLASS Trailwise database, anyone viewing either
parts of that route will see the comment. Also, a link to your posting
on the LandyZone forum, with the pictures.
Sorry if you've already said, but have you reported it to the local
council's higway's dept?
Cheers.
Dave B.
says...
> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
> Obstruction is at the coordinates I posted .. right next to the point
> where the road/tarmac changes to dirt, where the Gas/Electric compound
> boundaries end.
>
> Yeah, Farmer hated it when a Bridleway/Cyclepath was recently put in,
> he thinks he owns _all_ of it ..
I think we've all come accross landowners or tennants like that, sadly.
OK, I've added the comment that there is an obsrucion at :-
SE 61860 00210 on the GLASS Trailwise database, anyone viewing either
parts of that route will see the comment. Also, a link to your posting
on the LandyZone forum, with the pictures.
Sorry if you've already said, but have you reported it to the local
council's higway's dept?
Cheers.
Dave B.
hugh
May 2, 2012, 11:50:19 AM5/2/12
to
In message <a0cj24...@mid.individual.net>, Paul - xxx
<notchec...@hotmail.com> writes
south track crossing the railway is ORPA
The east west track at the co-ordinate you gave is a BOAT or whatever
they are called these days.
I can send you a download if you wish.
--
hugh
<notchec...@hotmail.com> writes
>Yeah, my 'older' OS shows it as restricted but my latest shows it as a
>Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
>Obstruction is at the coordinates I posted .. right next to the point
>where the road/tarmac changes to dirt, where the Gas/Electric compound
>boundaries end.
>
>Yeah, Farmer hated it when a Bridleway/Cyclepath was recently put in,
>he thinks he owns _all_ of it ..
>
Looked it up through my satmap access to current OS maps. The north
>Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
>Obstruction is at the coordinates I posted .. right next to the point
>where the road/tarmac changes to dirt, where the Gas/Electric compound
>boundaries end.
>
>Yeah, Farmer hated it when a Bridleway/Cyclepath was recently put in,
>he thinks he owns _all_ of it ..
>
south track crossing the railway is ORPA
The east west track at the co-ordinate you gave is a BOAT or whatever
they are called these days.
I can send you a download if you wish.
--
hugh
Dougal
May 2, 2012, 3:35:20 PM5/2/12
to
hugh
May 2, 2012, 3:44:02 PM5/2/12
to
In message <S-ydncsCirzlETzS...@eclipse.net.uk>, Dougal
<DougalATHisKennel.free-online.co.uk@?.?.invalid> writes
Other Roads with Public Access
--
hugh
<DougalATHisKennel.free-online.co.uk@?.?.invalid> writes
--
hugh
Dougal
May 2, 2012, 4:13:57 PM5/2/12
to
DaveB
May 3, 2012, 4:56:17 AM5/3/12
to
In article <9PmdneZF2roYCDzS...@eclipse.net.uk>, Paul
says...
have been one of the last to get sorted out before NERCA sunk its teeth
into the mess.
GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
of the area.
http://www.trailwise.org.uk/do_quickfind.php
and enter SE6100-02 into the UID field of the "Find and item:" panel on
the left... (SE6100-01 is the other part of the lane.)
We used to be able to drive RUPP's (Roads Used as Public Paths) the
active bit there was the term "Road". Presumption was always to the
higher status if in doubt, pre NERCA that was. (Natural Environment and
Rural Communities Act.)
Post NERCA, the presumption now is to the lowest status, so BOATS are
now "Restricted Byways", open to everything EXCEPT that propelled buy
mechanical means (Motor's to us.)
(There are many other instances where that change *could* screw with
many things in remote areas. In principle, a minor road co-incident
with a bridleway, could be non vehicular. A bit of a problem for anyone
who lives down that way...)
Footpaths on OS 1:50,000 maps are shown as a line of small red dots.
. . . . . . .
Bridleways, are a line of red dash's.
- - - - - - -
Restricted Byways (ex BOATS) are shown as red dot-dash marks.
. - . - . - . WE CANNOT DRIVE THESE ANY MORE, sadly....
Full Byways that can be legaly driven (IF NOT TRO'd) are shown as.
+ - + - + - + in red. (TRO = Traffic Regulation Order.)
ORPA's are shown as a string of "large" red dots, very distinctive and
different to how a footpath is shown!
The problem for us is, that ORPA's are often poorly researched, even by
the local authorities, so you realy do need to check with the relevant
highways authority as to their exact status. On the ground too, they
are often dificult to follow, especialy accross or past open farmland.
Also, it is quite common for a RoW to be TRO'd, so preventing it's use,
but the signs either never get put up, get ripped down, or otherwise
lost. The lack of a sign, does NOT mean it's garanteed "open".
TRO's can be permanent, Temporary or Seasonal. Some authorities play
silly games with Permanent Temporary TRO's applied Seasonaly!
Then of course, you get the land owners and tennants, who can and often
do place obstructions (illegaly) to try and prevent the way's use.
Parked farm machinery, Tree trunks, concrete blocks, piles of dirt, to
planks of wood with nails sticking up, placed under water in ruts have
all been found in the past, and everything in between. Any such
illegal obsctructions, take photos and record it's location then report
to the according local authority. If you can "abbate" the obstruction
with no damage done, so be it. (As Paul did by towing one of the
concrete blocks out of the way.) But you can only do the bare minimum
to pass by, WITHOUT straying off, or damaging the right of way.
(I'm no lawyer, so don't take my word as gospel on this matter.)
Overall, it's a legal minefield out there now for us motorised users of
unsurfaced rights of way. The GLASS (and GRAG) database(s) can help,
but even then, they have no legal standing. The only way to be sure is
to contact the authority who's area the RoW is in, and ask them. Most
are suprisingly helpful when you get to the actual people involved. But
it can be a struggle getting to them.
Remember, in the eyes of the law of this fair land (?) Ignorance is no
excuse for getting it wrong. Also Plod now have some far reaching
powers if they need. They could confiscate your vehicle if you're
found in the wrong place. Unlikley the first time, but if you're
repeatedly found "off route", it could happen. I believe they have done
that with some motorcycle's in the not too distant past.
Take care peep's, be sensible, so we can all enjoy for as long as we
can. Any obvious muppetry by idiots carving up ajacent land, or the
surface of a RoW, try to descretely get any number plate details, or
other obvious markings, so as to report to Plod etc.
And of course, just so it is said for the record, these are public
rights of way, so valid Tax, MOT, Insurance and seatbelts used etc are
all required items. "Green Lanes" are NOT "Off Road" by any means.
Cheers.
Dave B.
(A GLASS member, if you hadn't guessed.)
says...
> Yeah, my 'older' OS shows it as restricted but my latest shows it as a
> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
As Paul (the OP) says above, it appears to be all vehicular now, so must
> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
have been one of the last to get sorted out before NERCA sunk its teeth
into the mess.
GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
of the area.
http://www.trailwise.org.uk/do_quickfind.php
and enter SE6100-02 into the UID field of the "Find and item:" panel on
the left... (SE6100-01 is the other part of the lane.)
We used to be able to drive RUPP's (Roads Used as Public Paths) the
active bit there was the term "Road". Presumption was always to the
higher status if in doubt, pre NERCA that was. (Natural Environment and
Rural Communities Act.)
Post NERCA, the presumption now is to the lowest status, so BOATS are
now "Restricted Byways", open to everything EXCEPT that propelled buy
mechanical means (Motor's to us.)
(There are many other instances where that change *could* screw with
many things in remote areas. In principle, a minor road co-incident
with a bridleway, could be non vehicular. A bit of a problem for anyone
who lives down that way...)
Footpaths on OS 1:50,000 maps are shown as a line of small red dots.
. . . . . . .
Bridleways, are a line of red dash's.
- - - - - - -
Restricted Byways (ex BOATS) are shown as red dot-dash marks.
. - . - . - . WE CANNOT DRIVE THESE ANY MORE, sadly....
Full Byways that can be legaly driven (IF NOT TRO'd) are shown as.
+ - + - + - + in red. (TRO = Traffic Regulation Order.)
ORPA's are shown as a string of "large" red dots, very distinctive and
different to how a footpath is shown!
The problem for us is, that ORPA's are often poorly researched, even by
the local authorities, so you realy do need to check with the relevant
highways authority as to their exact status. On the ground too, they
are often dificult to follow, especialy accross or past open farmland.
Also, it is quite common for a RoW to be TRO'd, so preventing it's use,
but the signs either never get put up, get ripped down, or otherwise
lost. The lack of a sign, does NOT mean it's garanteed "open".
TRO's can be permanent, Temporary or Seasonal. Some authorities play
silly games with Permanent Temporary TRO's applied Seasonaly!
Then of course, you get the land owners and tennants, who can and often
do place obstructions (illegaly) to try and prevent the way's use.
Parked farm machinery, Tree trunks, concrete blocks, piles of dirt, to
planks of wood with nails sticking up, placed under water in ruts have
all been found in the past, and everything in between. Any such
illegal obsctructions, take photos and record it's location then report
to the according local authority. If you can "abbate" the obstruction
with no damage done, so be it. (As Paul did by towing one of the
concrete blocks out of the way.) But you can only do the bare minimum
to pass by, WITHOUT straying off, or damaging the right of way.
(I'm no lawyer, so don't take my word as gospel on this matter.)
Overall, it's a legal minefield out there now for us motorised users of
unsurfaced rights of way. The GLASS (and GRAG) database(s) can help,
but even then, they have no legal standing. The only way to be sure is
to contact the authority who's area the RoW is in, and ask them. Most
are suprisingly helpful when you get to the actual people involved. But
it can be a struggle getting to them.
Remember, in the eyes of the law of this fair land (?) Ignorance is no
excuse for getting it wrong. Also Plod now have some far reaching
powers if they need. They could confiscate your vehicle if you're
found in the wrong place. Unlikley the first time, but if you're
repeatedly found "off route", it could happen. I believe they have done
that with some motorcycle's in the not too distant past.
Take care peep's, be sensible, so we can all enjoy for as long as we
can. Any obvious muppetry by idiots carving up ajacent land, or the
surface of a RoW, try to descretely get any number plate details, or
other obvious markings, so as to report to Plod etc.
And of course, just so it is said for the record, these are public
rights of way, so valid Tax, MOT, Insurance and seatbelts used etc are
all required items. "Green Lanes" are NOT "Off Road" by any means.
Cheers.
Dave B.
(A GLASS member, if you hadn't guessed.)
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
hugh
May 3, 2012, 11:44:44 AM5/3/12
to
In message <MPG.2a0c5878c...@aioe.org>, DaveB
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
LA
--
hugh
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
>In article <9PmdneZF2roYCDzS...@eclipse.net.uk>, Paul
>says...
>> Yeah, my 'older' OS shows it as restricted but my latest shows it as a
>> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
>As Paul (the OP) says above, it appears to be all vehicular now, so must
>have been one of the last to get sorted out before NERCA sunk its teeth
>into the mess.
>
>GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
>result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
>of the area.
>
<Snip>
>says...
>> Yeah, my 'older' OS shows it as restricted but my latest shows it as a
>> Byway .. and Definitive map states it all as a Byway, I do check .. ;)
>
>As Paul (the OP) says above, it appears to be all vehicular now, so must
>have been one of the last to get sorted out before NERCA sunk its teeth
>into the mess.
>
>GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
>result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
>of the area.
>
The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
LA
--
hugh
DaveB
May 10, 2012, 12:53:16 PM5/10/12
to
In article <KI4TxgBs...@nospam.raefell.co.uk>, hugh@[127.0.0.1]
says...
It's not unknown for intentional errors to creap into OS maps, it's one
of the ways they use to keep track of who uses what data. One of the
big motoring organisaitons got hauled over the coals a few years back
for using unlicenced OS data I believe. Can't find the link to that
article now.
Also, the RoW data on OS maps, is usualy out of date even when a new
issue hits the street. The *Only* way to know 100%, is to ask the HA
who's area it is.
Cheers.
Dave B..
says...
> >GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
> >result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
> >of the area.
> >
> <Snip>
> The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
> 1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
> are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
> LA
>
> --
> hugh
>
>
Take care Hugh.
> >result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
> >of the area.
> >
> <Snip>
> The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
> 1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
> are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
> LA
>
> --
> hugh
>
>
It's not unknown for intentional errors to creap into OS maps, it's one
of the ways they use to keep track of who uses what data. One of the
big motoring organisaitons got hauled over the coals a few years back
for using unlicenced OS data I believe. Can't find the link to that
article now.
Also, the RoW data on OS maps, is usualy out of date even when a new
issue hits the street. The *Only* way to know 100%, is to ask the HA
who's area it is.
Cheers.
Dave B..
hugh
May 10, 2012, 3:35:20 PM5/10/12
to
In message <MPG.2a1602dab...@aioe.org>, DaveB
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
purchaser of an Active10 satnav system used by walkers and mountain
bikers. They provide a range of UK OS maps and overseas maps also which
you purchase for example per county/national park/region. They also do
overseas maps. They're not cheap so presumably a chunk is passed on to
OS as a licence fee.
>Cheers.
>
>Dave B..
--
hugh
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
>In article <KI4TxgBs...@nospam.raefell.co.uk>, hugh@[127.0.0.1]
>says...
>> >GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
>> >result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
>> >of the area.
>> >
>> <Snip>
>> The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
>> 1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
>> are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
>> LA
>>
>> --
>> hugh
>>
>>
>
>Take care Hugh.
>
This is legitimate service provided by the Satmap people to every
>says...
>> >GLASS also list it at vehicular, both parts, and state that's as a
>> >result of OS map data, that in turn is derrived from the Definitave Map
>> >of the area.
>> >
>> <Snip>
>> The Satmap outdoor GPS system I have gives on line access to current
>> 1:25000 OS maps. Very useful for checking these things. ROW on OS maps
>> are I believe now largely in synch with the Definitive Map held by the
>> LA
>>
>> --
>> hugh
>>
>>
>
>Take care Hugh.
>
purchaser of an Active10 satnav system used by walkers and mountain
bikers. They provide a range of UK OS maps and overseas maps also which
you purchase for example per county/national park/region. They also do
overseas maps. They're not cheap so presumably a chunk is passed on to
OS as a licence fee.
>It's not unknown for intentional errors to creap into OS maps, it's one
>of the ways they use to keep track of who uses what data. One of the
>big motoring organisaitons got hauled over the coals a few years back
>for using unlicenced OS data I believe. Can't find the link to that
>article now.
>
>Also, the RoW data on OS maps, is usualy out of date even when a new
>issue hits the street. The *Only* way to know 100%, is to ask the HA
>who's area it is.
>
I believe ROW are now imported directly from the Definitive map.
>of the ways they use to keep track of who uses what data. One of the
>big motoring organisaitons got hauled over the coals a few years back
>for using unlicenced OS data I believe. Can't find the link to that
>article now.
>
>Also, the RoW data on OS maps, is usualy out of date even when a new
>issue hits the street. The *Only* way to know 100%, is to ask the HA
>who's area it is.
>
>Cheers.
>
>Dave B..
--
hugh
DaveB
May 11, 2012, 6:02:33 AM5/11/12
to
In article <6i+$bZF4hB...@nospam.raefell.co.uk>, hugh@[127.0.0.1]
says...
> I believe ROW are now imported directly from the Definitive map.
> >Cheers.
> >
> >Dave B..
The DM is a paper document, not online (except in Northants, and there's
an outstanding debate as to it's legality, but no one has challenged
them.)
Like an MOT that is only valid at the time it's done. The RoW data is
only valid at the time you ask for it.
Unless your mobile device poll's all the uk highway authority databases
in real time, or you're on some paid subscription list where all the
HA's publish their latest RoW data at the time they change it, including
all the transient TRO's etc. Then, like the rest of us, you'll be
using stale data.
Take care.
Dave B.
says...
> I believe ROW are now imported directly from the Definitive map.
> >Cheers.
> >
> >Dave B..
an outstanding debate as to it's legality, but no one has challenged
them.)
Like an MOT that is only valid at the time it's done. The RoW data is
only valid at the time you ask for it.
Unless your mobile device poll's all the uk highway authority databases
in real time, or you're on some paid subscription list where all the
HA's publish their latest RoW data at the time they change it, including
all the transient TRO's etc. Then, like the rest of us, you'll be
using stale data.
Take care.
Dave B.
hugh
May 11, 2012, 4:18:05 PM5/11/12
to
In message <MPG.2a16f4022...@aioe.org>, DaveB
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
My mobile device doesn't poll anything - I can look up the maps on line
from my computer. I can then plot a route on line and down load it to
the device.
Similarly I can upload a track from the device and share it with every
other user if I wish.
--
hugh
<g8...@uko2.co.uk> writes
from my computer. I can then plot a route on line and down load it to
the device.
Similarly I can upload a track from the device and share it with every
other user if I wish.
--
hugh
DaveB
May 14, 2012, 8:50:46 AM5/14/12
to
In article <FlPAKdA9...@nospam.raefell.co.uk>, hugh@[127.0.0.1]
says...
Hi Hugh.
But, that data is not always fully up to date, RoW wise. Unless, you
see a signed and dated (in force) TRO sign on your travels, or you
call/visit the appropriate RoW departments, covering the route you
intend to travel.
Regards.
Dave B.
says...
But, that data is not always fully up to date, RoW wise. Unless, you
see a signed and dated (in force) TRO sign on your travels, or you
call/visit the appropriate RoW departments, covering the route you
intend to travel.
Regards.
Dave B.
hugh
May 14, 2012, 9:10:19 AM5/14/12
to
In message <MPG.2a1b0ff9a...@aioe.org>, DaveB
Hi Dave
I don't disagree with you, but how many people go to that length of
trouble every time they go out? I would imagine it's what they do if
they hit an unexpected problem - which is where this thread started :-)
--
hugh
I don't disagree with you, but how many people go to that length of
trouble every time they go out? I would imagine it's what they do if
they hit an unexpected problem - which is where this thread started :-)
--
hugh
Dave Baxter
May 18, 2012, 4:36:14 AM5/18/12
to
In article <jCp5j4D7...@nospam.raefell.co.uk>, hugh@[127.0.0.1]
Indeed.. But it's the only way to know for sure.
Just like were "Suposed" to check our tires, lights, oil etc, every day.
At least I remember being taught that, when I was being trained to drive
yellow van's arround the town for a living.
But juging buy the number of cop-cars with a light out I've recently
seen (or the same one has been following me arround the country!) Even
they don't do that now.
Regards...
Dave B.
Just like were "Suposed" to check our tires, lights, oil etc, every day.
At least I remember being taught that, when I was being trained to drive
yellow van's arround the town for a living.
But juging buy the number of cop-cars with a light out I've recently
seen (or the same one has been following me arround the country!) Even
they don't do that now.
Regards...
Dave B.
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