Sankey trailers - not road legal ?
Rich Clafton
Was in a silly mood the other day so driving past MVS went and asked them
how much a sankey was
As expected, silly money but more to the point was told they are not road
legal and they make you sign a disclaimer that you are aware of this and
will not use it on the road
They mentioned lights & brakes being the issue
Anyone have any more information on this
Does this make all sankeys illegal now , even already in private hands or is
it just a 'we cannot trade in them law' ?
Rich
Kay Mawby
safety features needed
Brakes need to come on if the trailer comes off while in motion
there should be a cable/chain to connect your trailer and towing vehicle
together, plus some other reasons I am not to clear on.
Members of the EMLRA are looking into a solution to the problems.
I will keep you posted.
Kay.
"Rich Clafton" <rcla...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:teidpve...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
Patrick Manuel
other assorted spares from mine as I was going to use if to collect a load
of horse manure for a chum.
What legislation covers the use (or non use) of Sankey trailers on the road?
Is it because of the weight of the trailer? Where can I find out more
information?
TIA
Patrick
--
I used to have a name but now I'm only an email address ...
... and a web site - www.bonman.fsnet.co.uk
"Kay Mawby" <k...@bepunicorn.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9ccsna$2e9$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Lowey
simply stick a trailer board on the back with regulation lights and your reg
mark. 20 quid from Halfords. That satisfies the lighting and displaying the
reg mark obligations.
Who cares about brakes?
"Patrick Manuel" <patrick...@anoraks.org> wrote in message
news:9cdogq$hch$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Chris B
trailer which was legal when built remains legal, same as rear seat
belts, etc. Regardless, it's easy to wire up necessary lights and a
"breakaway" cable can be bought for a couple of quid and attached to the
braking mechanism, that's what I've done.
Anybody clear on requirements for rear fog lights on trailers?
As an aside, how many trailers do you see daily, both private and
commercial, that flagrantly break the law (no lights or don't work or,
even worse, work the wrong way round, wrong number plate, unroadworthy
condition, etc.) that never get nicked?
Pah!
In article <9ccsna$2e9$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, Kay Mawby <kay@bepunicorn
.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>All Sankey trailers are now illegal to use on the road, this is due to the
>safety features needed
>Brakes need to come on if the trailer comes off while in motion
>there should be a cable/chain to connect your trailer and towing vehicle
>together, plus some other reasons I am not to clear on.
>Members of the EMLRA are looking into a solution to the problems.
>I will keep you posted.
>
>Kay.
>
--
Chris B
David G. Bell
<T5uG6.248$Kt2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
david...@virgin.net "Lowey" wrote:
> Why bother rewiring it. Strip any redundant crap off it that don't work and
> simply stick a trailer board on the back with regulation lights and your reg
> mark. 20 quid from Halfords. That satisfies the lighting and displaying the
> reg mark obligations.
Yes, this wouldn't be too difficult.
> Who cares about brakes?
That could be the problem. The trailers are heavy, and can carry quite
a load, so they might fall foul of regulations which aren't applied to
the cheap trailers such as sold at Halfords.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
If I were to go back to my schooldays, knowing what I know now, I would
pack cheese sandwiches for lunch.
Mike Buckley
"David G. Bell" <db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20010428.12...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk...
> On Saturday, in article
> <T5uG6.248$Kt2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>
> david...@virgin.net "Lowey" wrote:
>
> > Why bother rewiring it. Strip any redundant crap off it that don't work
and
> > simply stick a trailer board on the back with regulation lights and your
reg
> > mark. 20 quid from Halfords. That satisfies the lighting and displaying
the
> > reg mark obligations.
>
> Yes, this wouldn't be too difficult.
>
> > Who cares about brakes?
>
> That could be the problem. The trailers are heavy, and can carry quite
> a load, so they might fall foul of regulations which aren't applied to
> the cheap trailers such as sold at Halfords.
>
>
brakes - yes? Mike.
Alex
> > > Who cares about brakes?
> >
> > That could be the problem. The trailers are heavy, and can carry quite
> > a load, so they might fall foul of regulations which aren't applied to
> > the cheap trailers such as sold at Halfords.
> >
> >
> As I understand it, a trailer with a GVW of more than 750kgs has to have
> brakes - yes? Mike.
In which case, only the 1tonne Sankey needs brakes. AFAIK, trailers up to 750kg
do not require brakes. Trailers over 1tonne do, and also require a full licence
to do it. Anybody who obtained a licence recently cannot pull a trailer over
750kgs anyway. As for a chain in case of coupling disconnection, this is a
sensible precaution on any trailer.
Alex
TonyF
chr...@marenv.demon.co.uk says...
> Surely legislation can only be applied to current and future issues? Any
> trailer which was legal when built remains legal, same as rear seat
> belts, etc. Regardless, it's easy to wire up necessary lights and a
> "breakaway" cable can be bought for a couple of quid and attached to the
> braking mechanism, that's what I've done.
>
> Anybody clear on requirements for rear fog lights on trailers?
>
> As an aside, how many trailers do you see daily, both private and
> commercial, that flagrantly break the law (no lights or don't work or,
> even worse, work the wrong way round, wrong number plate, unroadworthy
> condition, etc.) that never get nicked?
>
> Pah!
>
I agree with you Chris, surely any new legislation regarding trailers, or
cars for that matter must be retrospective. If this was not the case then
about 90% of all Landies would be illegal. How many series motors or
early 110's would come close to passing the current construction regs. In
my experience very few police officers are fully aware of construction
and use regs for Landies and are way out of their depth when dealing with
ex-mod stock.
Tow it and be damned !!!
-----
TonyF
=====
NONE of the above may be fact. They may all simply be the rantings of an
insane old man.
Bill Bass
following the dreadful recent 'Selby' rail crash, the police are going to
become particularly vigilant on illegal trailers. So lets make sure we've
got it right. "Rich Clafton" <rcla...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:teidpve...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
tony...@bigfoot.com
individual is sooner or later going to get the 'book' thrown at him for
something trivial.
Best Wished to all on the list
TONY
David G. Bell
nospa...@cbmsys.co.uk "Alex" wrote:
The Sankey trailer ratings usually quoted are the payload, and the gross
weight of the 3/4 tonne Sankey is just short of 1.5 tonnes (Gross train
weight behind a Lightweight is just inside 3.5 tonnes).
David G. Bell
<20010428.20...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk>
db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk "David G. Bell" wrote:
> On Saturday, in article <3AEAFC27...@cbmsys.co.uk>
> nospa...@cbmsys.co.uk "Alex" wrote:
>
> > Mike Buckley wrote:
> >
> > > > > Who cares about brakes?
> > > >
> > > > That could be the problem. The trailers are heavy, and can carry quite
> > > > a load, so they might fall foul of regulations which aren't applied to
> > > > the cheap trailers such as sold at Halfords.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > As I understand it, a trailer with a GVW of more than 750kgs has to have
> > > brakes - yes? Mike.
> >
> > In which case, only the 1tonne Sankey needs brakes. AFAIK, trailers up to
> 750kg
> > do not require brakes. Trailers over 1tonne do, and also require a full
> licence
> > to do it. Anybody who obtained a licence recently cannot pull a trailer over
> > 750kgs anyway. As for a chain in case of coupling disconnection, this is a
> > sensible precaution on any trailer.
>
> The Sankey trailer ratings usually quoted are the payload, and the gross
> weight of the 3/4 tonne Sankey is just short of 1.5 tonnes (Gross train
> weight behind a Lightweight is just inside 3.5 tonnes).
I also did some looking around today. The heaviest gross-weight sold in
Halfords is 750kg, and none of them have brakes. Tare is 160kg. Those
Sankey trailers are _heavy_, and built to stand the strains of off-road
use.
The big trailers Halfords sell are also pretty expensive, but if your
off-road trailer use is limited to the field you're camping in, they'd
maybe do all you want.
What you'd need on your UK driving licence is the B+E category (or C1+E)
which is up to 3500kg gross with a heavy trailer. The B category gives
a 750kg limit on the trailer. The C1+E category allows up to 7.5 tonne,
and now needs some sort of medical.
BTW, the B category also has an 8 passenger-seat limit. So who can
drive those LWB station wagons?
So it looks as though any problem with a Sankey trailer comes from the
rules applying to heavy trailers. And I don't know how the heck you'd
get the licence, but there must be something or the trailer caravan
business would have collapsed.
Alex
> I also did some looking around today. The heaviest gross-weight sold in
> Halfords is 750kg, and none of them have brakes. Tare is 160kg. Those
> Sankey trailers are _heavy_, and built to stand the strains of off-road
> use.
>
> The big trailers Halfords sell are also pretty expensive, but if your
> off-road trailer use is limited to the field you're camping in, they'd
> maybe do all you want.
>
> What you'd need on your UK driving licence is the B+E category (or C1+E)
> which is up to 3500kg gross with a heavy trailer. The B category gives
> a 750kg limit on the trailer. The C1+E category allows up to 7.5 tonne,
> and now needs some sort of medical.
>
> BTW, the B category also has an 8 passenger-seat limit. So who can
> drive those LWB station wagons?
>
> So it looks as though any problem with a Sankey trailer comes from the
> rules applying to heavy trailers. And I don't know how the heck you'd
> get the licence, but there must be something or the trailer caravan
> business would have collapsed.
>
You have to take an additional test to obtain Category C1, (7.5t), another for D1
(16 seats) and another for E (Trailer) Great isn't it? Fortunatly I am in possesion
of a full car licence, B,C1,D1+E, so I don't have to worry.
Alex
Patrick Manuel
part of the problem. I am concerned that it may be illegal to use it on
the road because of the brakes - I suspect that if this were the case that
the insurance would be invalidated. My Sankey has overrun brakes but the
problem according to one of the earlier posts is the lack of a mechanism for
automatically applying them should the trailer become detached from the car
whilst towing.
If this is new legislation then does it apply retrospectively?
If it is illegal to use of the road how are you supposed to move it anywhere
unless it is on the back of another trailer?
--
I used to have a name but now I'm only an email address ...
... and a web site - www.bonman.fsnet.co.uk
"Lowey" <david...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:T5uG6.248$Kt2....@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> Why bother rewiring it. Strip any redundant crap off it that don't work
and
> simply stick a trailer board on the back with regulation lights and your
reg
> mark. 20 quid from Halfords. That satisfies the lighting and displaying
the
> reg mark obligations.
> Who cares about brakes?
>
SNIP
Kay Mawby
vehicles in their own right, so where as the seatbelt legislation would only
affect vehicles build after it was brought into force the trailer
legislation would affect all trailers, (info gained from the police).
K.
"Chris B" <chr...@marenv.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:yaEjyyBU...@marenv.demon.co.uk...
Mike Buckley
Alex <nospa...@cbmsys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3AEC6E0B...@cbmsys.co.uk...
> "David G. Bell" wrote:
>
> > I also did some looking around today. The heaviest gross-weight sold in
> > Halfords is 750kg, and none of them have brakes. Tare is 160kg. Those
> > Sankey trailers are _heavy_, and built to stand the strains of off-road
> > use.
The GROSS weight is the key as I understand it - it's not the actual weight
of the trailer but the weight of the trailer and load thats being refered
to. A trailer that weighs more than 750 ,ks inc the load needs brakes.
As I recall, the Police here in Scotland mounted a campaign some years ago
to check on trailers and caravans. In the wake of recent events I agree
with the poster who suggested that they might well start to be more
interested in illegal trailers.
> >
> > The big trailers Halfords sell are also pretty expensive, but if your
> > off-road trailer use is limited to the field you're camping in, they'd
> > maybe do all you want.
> >
> > What you'd need on your UK driving licence is the B+E category (or C1+E)
> > which is up to 3500kg gross with a heavy trailer. The B category gives
> > a 750kg limit on the trailer. The C1+E category allows up to 7.5 tonne,
> > and now needs some sort of medical.
> >
> > BTW, the B category also has an 8 passenger-seat limit. So who can
> > drive those LWB station wagons?
Indeed - new drivers (can't remember since when) can't drive them without
upgrading their licence.
> >
> > So it looks as though any problem with a Sankey trailer comes from the
> > rules applying to heavy trailers. And I don't know how the heck you'd
> > get the licence, but there must be something or the trailer caravan
> > business would have collapsed.
There is a supplementary test for towing these days I believe. Quite right
too considering the number of caravans that are so badly loaded and towed.
> >
>
> You have to take an additional test to obtain Category C1, (7.5t), another
for D1
> (16 seats) and another for E (Trailer) Great isn't it? Fortunatly I am in
possesion
> of a full car licence, B,C1,D1+E, so I don't have to worry.
Those of us old enough to have such licences don't have a problem - it's
called "grandfather rights" odly enough. No jokes about cloth caps please,
I'm only 44.
Mike.
>
> Alex
>
>
Danny Wood
Where is the best places to buy from?
I have had a look on eBay however a lot of them are in very bad condition...
Any ideas please?
Dougal
on behalf of the MoD:
http://www.mod-sales.com/
I believe that most of the Sankey trailers have now gone from Witham SV
but the odd one is still likely to crop up occasionally.
Some of the other surplus places may also have them. e.g.:
http://www.ljacksonandco.com/index.php/trailers/cargo-trailers/article/11587-sankey-1-000kg-single-axle-trailer
http://army-uk.com/equip.php?ID=260
Ramco http://www.e-disposals.com/
http://www.anchorsupplies.com - but they have not had any for some time.
Condition-wise there is a wide variation. Some brand new Sankey bodies
were recently available from Witham SV making a very simple improvement.
I'm assuming that you are aware of some of the size/braking variations
that exist. The wrong choice could adversely impact on your project.
Some of the much newer Penman trailers are now being released. Mostly
accident damaged but some could be easy repairs.
Quite why you tagged this question onto the end of a thread of
irrelevant twaddle on Sankey 'illegality' escapes me! - or did Google
make the connection?
caracol...@ntlworld.com
> On 04/07/2015 07:43, Danny Wood wrote:
> > Just looking to buy one to kit up as a mobile kitchen and extra space for camping.
> > Where is the best places to buy from?
> > I have had a look on eBay however a lot of them are in very bad condition...
> >
> > Any ideas please?
>
> The obvious place to start is Witham Specialist Vehicles who sell stuff
> on behalf of the MoD:
> http://www.mod-sales.com/
>
> I believe that most of the Sankey trailers have now gone from Witham SV
> but the odd one is still likely to crop up occasionally.
>
> http://www.ljacksonandco.com/index.php/trailers/cargo-trailers/article/11587-sankey-1-000kg-single-axle-trailer
>
> http://army-uk.com/equip.php?ID=260
>
> Ramco http://www.e-disposals.com/
>
> http://www.anchorsupplies.com - but they have not had any for some time.
>
>
> Condition-wise there is a wide variation. Some brand new Sankey bodies
> were recently available from Witham SV making a very simple improvement.
>
> I'm assuming that you are aware of some of the size/braking variations
> that exist. The wrong choice could adversely impact on your project.
>
> Some of the much newer Penman trailers are now being released. Mostly
> accident damaged but some could be easy repairs.
>
> Quite why you tagged this question onto the end of a thread of
> irrelevant twaddle on Sankey 'illegality' escapes me! - or did Google
> make the connection?
a virtual rust free box on. Tel. 07860 313822
caracol...@ntlworld.com
It has a virtual rust free box on with minor surface rust on chassis. Tel. 07860 313822
Dougal
I'm sure that if Dan's still looking he'll pick this thread up.
l.w...@outlook.com
I wish people would check facts before posting such misleading articles.
Sadly many companies selling Nato hitches or equivalents do not know the law in this regard either.
Even after checking with VOSA and DVLA websites I was more mystified than ever.
I eventually decided to contact the Norfolk police traffic division to verify the legality of using a ball and pin instead (you can get them deep enough and strong enough to accommodate a Nato hitch).
Being as the towing ring is 75mm and the pin is 25mm then you will get a certain amount of sideways and vertical movement for cross county which whilst not as good as a swivel does accommodate some of that.
The police officer (himself a Landy driver investigated on my behalf).
I was very surprised when he eventually got back to me with the following information.
NATO HITCH IS APPROVED.
Source VOSA.
approval E11 55r-011938
Manufacturer Bradley double lock tested.
most are Bradley.
He actually got the first indication from a defender owners club and then sourced the document from VOSA.
wow thanks cop.
for the rest of the nonsense on the net.
Brake lights which I presume would only refer to early narrow tracks.
Indicator and brake lights were no longer legal as being reversed to current legal requirements.
Solution swop them over.
Indicator on the outside and brake on inside.
very easy job.
Number plate and light must be centered to back of trailer.
again an easy job.
Normally as only 750 kilo weight capacity over run brakes are not required.
But if fitted they still must work or be removed to comply with regulations.
If brakes are retained then a break away cable must be fitted to enable brakes on trailer to be engaged in the very unlikely event of trailer and vehicle separation.
simple job.
cable or chain connected to hand brake pull rod and fit slip pawl on hand brake rachet to ensure brakes remain on.
If brakes removed then fit retaining chain to ensure that trailer is still connected to vehicle.
wider Tyres
as a general rule they must not protrude more than 30mm from body.
I have got around this by welding round steel piping onto wheel arch.
If you look at the trailers in use now with the British army you will notice they have been fitted with plastic mudguards so that is yet another solution.
Nose down is acceptable and actually better provided not excessive.
Again Vosa regs.
we are talking a few degrees of tilt.
a solution to this for some Sankey models is to invert brake cylinder and towing ring'
remove from top of A frame and fit underneath instead.
Lets put this issue to bed once and for all.
.