200TDi Temperature - too hot?
Jon
i.e. Motorway driving?
Mine is a 1992 90 hard top, stock 200TDi with 235x85 BFG AT rubbers.
On flatish ground it will happily trundle along at 70 - 75mph (80mph
on a Long road) BUT the temperature needle rises from vertical (normal
running temp) and seems to stop at the end of the white bit,
importantly before it gets to the red!
Question is - IS this normal or is my radiator efficiancy begining to
fall (some of the vains are missing or have flies lodged in them!)?
Could it be anything else? Do radiators silt up inside over time,
requiring a wash out?
On a similar note, I am thinking of a bigger intercooler (Alisport /
twisted performance type) that will sit in front of the radiator but
will this inhibit the radiators performance further???
By the way i live and drive in the UK, not somewhere hot like Greece!
Any thoughts / comments appreciated.
Jon
grege
in the middle of the temperature guage irrespective of whether I'm driving
through town or bombing down the M1.
Radiators do silt up over time, which is why you're supposed to back-flush
them at the 12,000 mile service. Other things to check are:
- Thermostat. If this is on it's way out, it might not be operating
correctly. As they're only a few quid from Halfords, suggest you simply
change yours and see if it makes a difference.
- Electrical earth. My engine temperature used to suddenly rise whenever I
put the brakes on. Only after weeks of fault-hunting did I discovered that a
bad earth was behind it [the brake lights, of course, come on when you hit
the brakes...].
An additional radiator in front of your existing one, whether it be an
intercooler or for air conditioning, will inevitably affect the cooling
performance. However, given that Land Rover themselves quite happily
installed an air aconditioning radiator in this location, I wouldn't have
thought it would be a problem assuming everything else is working correctly.
--> Greg
"Jon" <jonatha...@no-spam-linesurveys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:og9nf05ogr3r18kqh...@4ax.com...
Jon
Thanks for the reply:
>Radiators do silt up over time, which is why you're supposed to back-flush
>them at the 12,000 mile service.
.. better do this, she's done 143k miles and I know it hasnt been done
in the last 6k miles cos those are the ones ive done!
>- Thermostat. If this is on it's way out, it might not be operating
>correctly. As they're only a few quid from Halfords, suggest you simply
>change yours and see if it makes a difference.
good point.
>
>- Electrical earth. My engine temperature used to suddenly rise whenever I
>put the brakes on. Only after weeks of fault-hunting did I discovered that a
>bad earth was behind it [the brake lights, of course, come on when you hit
>the brakes...].
I'd be fairly confident my earths are all OK, one of the things i had
to do over christmas was replace both main earth straps. All other
electrics are now OK.
>
>An additional radiator in front of your existing one, whether it be an
>intercooler or for air conditioning, will inevitably affect the cooling
>performance. However, given that Land Rover themselves quite happily
>installed an air aconditioning radiator in this location, I wouldn't have
>thought it would be a problem assuming everything else is working correctly.
..Hadnt thought of this.
David French
news:40fbb308$1...@mail.hmgcc.gov.uk...
> Radiators do silt up over time, which is why you're supposed to back-flush
> them at the 12,000 mile service. Other things to check are:
>
> - Thermostat. If this is on it's way out, it might not be operating
> correctly. As they're only a few quid from Halfords, suggest you simply
> change yours and see if it makes a difference.
The easiest check is to take the thermostat out altogether. If it still
overheats, it's because the rad's not up to it. If not, it's the
thermostat.
David
Pantelis Giamarellos
I happen to be driving in Greece and fitting a large full frontal area
intercooler had extremely good results for performance, fuel economy and
decrease of operating temperature (marginal though on the second and third
if you decide to exploit the performance gains)
I would suggest you check the thermostat, the clean the radiator with one of
the readily available radiator cleaning solutions and if that does not fix
the problem then also check the ground from the engine to the chassis.
Corrosion of the contacts of this electric ground sometimes results into
getting increased readings on the engine (actually water) temperature gauge.
If you fit a larger intercooler and you do not have A/C in your car I
suggest you speak with either Allard, Allisport or Bell.
Tweasted Animation and Jeremy Fearns are a bit expensive for what they offer
for a simple 200Tdi engine and all three (Allard, Allisport and Bell) offer
excellent quality products and very realisticaly priced.
If the problem with the increased temperature persists I would suggest you
check the engine for cylinder head gasket failure and also check the fuel
supply adjustments of the diesel fuel pump.
Take care
Pantelis Giamarellos
LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE
"Jon" <jonatha...@no-spam-linesurveys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:og9nf05ogr3r18kqh...@4ax.com...
marc
<jonatha...@no-spam-linesurveys.co.uk> writes
>Question is - IS this normal or is my radiator efficiancy begining to
>fall (some of the vains are missing or have flies lodged in them!)?
>Could it be anything else? Do radiators silt up inside over time,
>requiring a wash out?
Hi
As long as your thermostat is working as it should, the problem will
either be your radiator or your viscous fan hub.
Most likely to be the radiator.
Hope this helps
--
Marc Draper
Forsale
Landrover Defender 90 300tdi county hardtop 1996 72K
Landrover Discovery comercial 300tdi S reg 70k
Landrover Discovery Comercial 300tdi R reg 62k
Toyota Hilux surf 2.4 AW/AC/EW/SR
Super winch X9 + genuine Landrover fitting kits for 200 Disco.
Gromit
> Out of interest how hot does your 200TDi run when running at 70mph,
> i.e. Motorway driving?
I've a 92 110 200tdi with a roofrack. (I don't get to 70 unless theres
a downhill and a tailwind)
I usually cruse at about 60-65 and the temp sits at somewhere between
1/3 and 1/2. This is in 30 degrees with NO fan (my bodge broke again
and I'm driving about without a fan again. Soon to be fixed - honest)
I take anything over half way on my gauge to be the beginnings of it
overheating and let it cool down - but then again I don't know that
the gauges are that accurate.
In my experience, the 200tdi doesn't over heat unless you start
climbing some BIG hills (or your fan doesn't work)
Sounds like yours runs a bit hotter than mine.
Have you checked that the thermostat is opening? Are the pipes to the
radiator hot after a run?
When hot, do you have any cool spots on the radiator?
Is the fan VC locked when hot?
Flushing the rad would do no harm and you see what comes out.
Is there coolant in it? Is there a fan belt round the pump? ;->
As for the intercooler, I've read that they do reduce the cooling
ability a bit. I'm sure someone with experience will be along soon to
tell you. I wouldn't fancy fitting one though till I was sure of the
existing setup.
HTH,
Gromit
Derry Argue
news:og9nf05ogr3r18kqh...@4ax.com:
Did anyone suggest that it may just be your gauge that is not
indicating correctly?
There used to be a temperature gauge on the old Peugeot 504
trucks. Then Peugeot removed them on the later models!
My guru at Arnold Clark (Ian at Inverness) said they took it out
because owners got unduly concerned when it recorded an
inaccurate high reading!
Just a thought. If your 200Tdi over heats, there would surely be
steam issuing from an expansion valve somewhere?? Or coolant
loss (head gasket)??
Derry
Simon Isaacs
Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk
"Jon" <jonatha...@no-spam-linesurveys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:og9nf05ogr3r18kqh...@4ax.com...
My Disco normally sits at 1/2 no matter how I drive it, but yesterday saw
fit to climb to the red while I was towing the GLASS trailer home as the guy
who does the shows lives 10 miles away, and also had to get his caravan
home...
After it cooled it then ran at about 3/4, without the heater on full to
remove as much heat from the system as possible! Having said that, the
GLASS trailer is bloody heavy, and I was only able to tow it at about 50 all
the way home, so I have a suspiscion that the brakes on it may require some
investigation. Performance was significantly down, more so than when the
hybrid gets towed on its trailer to events.
Once I dropped the trailer off, temperature dropped back to normal!
--
Simon Isaacs
Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, currently under restoration
Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfriend's) 3" lift kit fitted, body
shell now restored and mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)
marc
<cc...@allstate.com> writes
>In my experience, the 200tdi doesn't over heat unless you start
>climbing some BIG hills (or your fan doesn't work)
>Sounds like yours runs a bit hotter than mine.
If your cooling system is in good order your 200tdi will NEVER overheat
in the UK.
Think about what it is designed to do and where it is designed to do it.
If yours overheats on hills than you have a problem.
One of my discos used to overheat but only when towing a trailer flat
out up a hill........fitted a new radiator and now it will do it all day
without overheating.
Jon
One thought, check the thin fins between the main tubes of the radiator.
I've seen them with empty space between the tubes that causes them to over
heat at speed on the motorway.
--
Jon
EMB
> The easiest check is to take the thermostat out altogether. If it still
> overheats, it's because the rad's not up to it. If not, it's the
> thermostat.
>
Don't *ever* do this - the water will not circulate properly without a
thermostat as there is not enough restriction to ensure that the water
flows through all the cooling passages.
If you want to check this way, gut the valve piece out of your old
thermostat leaving the outer piece with the hole in it in the housing to
provide some restriction. That way water circulation will be acceptable
and you shouldn't get any localised boiling problems in the head
--
EMB
change two to number to reply
David French
news:cdh995$rft$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> David French wrote:
>
> > The easiest check is to take the thermostat out altogether. If it still
> > overheats, it's because the rad's not up to it. If not, it's the
> > thermostat.
> >
> Don't *ever* do this - the water will not circulate properly without a
> thermostat as there is not enough restriction to ensure that the water
> flows through all the cooling passages.
Oops.
Jon
Im wondering if I have a few things that need attention.
Firstly I had a look at the radiator last night and probably 10 - 15%
of the tinf fins are missing / squashed up with flies etc - suspect
this is not good?
Thermostat ?? Dont know, will taking it out, dropping it in boiling
water and watching it determine if its knackared or do I need to be a
bit more scientific? For the sake of £5 maybe i should just buy
another and have done with it?
From memort top & bottom radiator Hoses do get hot when its running.
There is plenty of anti-freeze / coolant in (I replaced it last
November). Thinking about it radiator must be cleanish inside as well
because to get the old stuff out i just dropped the bottom hose.
(Would this flush the radiator or does the "muck" stick inside?
As for earth straps - will check them again but i'm pretty sure all OK
on that front.
Someone mentioned head gasket - general performance seems OK and my
oil (and water) are both clean, i.e. no oil in water and no water in
oil. Also, no steam through exhaust and not clattering in engine as
rings slap gasket so i think this is still good too.
So, short list of things would seem to be:
1. Radiator
2. Thermostat
is the geral opinion to just replace the thermostat or is there an
easy way to check it?
Thanks
Jon
Gromit
> in the UK.
I'm not in the UK and yes, mine does have a problem as I said, the fan
doesn't work.
The point being that my runs cooler without a fan in more extreme
conditions than the OPs, hence concluding that they are probably
overheating a bit.
G
Paul - xxx
> Firstly I had a look at the radiator last night and probably 10 - 15%
> of the tinf fins are missing / squashed up with flies etc - suspect
> this is not good?
Nope. Compressed air from other side blowing out the accumulated crud is a
good idea .. but wear goggles, seriously.
> For the sake of £5 maybe i should just buy
> another and have done with it?
Yup. ;)
--
Paul ...
(8(|) ... Homer Rocks
Jon
washed the radiator till it sparkels... Well theres no mud in now
anyway! No difference to 60 - 65mph+ tempereature.
Finally got round to changing thermostat for a new one tonight - didnt
make the slightest difference either!
So...
Radiator buggered?
Water pump not pumping?
Sender unit duff?
When the vehicle has been running and the temperature is above normal
the top couple of inches of the radiator are *hot*, the remainder luke
warm with no apparent hot or cold spots - doesnt this suggest that the
radiator is actually working? I did however forget to check if the
bottom hose was hot, warm or cold - will try this tomorrow.
Water pump - Im guessing this is OK too as the radiator and top hose
are getting hot.
Sender unit????? Do these things often go wrong? Can they be checked
or is it like the thermostat, just chuck another one in?
I did have another thought - Head gasket. I have dismissed this though
cos the header tank isnt getting pressurised to the point where its
blowing water out, nor are there any signs of oil in the water / water
in the oil.
Any other thoughts cos I'm running out of them!?
Thanks
Jon
EMB
>
> When the vehicle has been running and the temperature is above normal
> the top couple of inches of the radiator are *hot*, the remainder luke
> warm with no apparent hot or cold spots - doesnt this suggest that the
> radiator is actually working? I did however forget to check if the
> bottom hose was hot, warm or cold - will try this tomorrow.
It's not circulating it's water properly. 2 most likely causes are the
radiator being blocked internally, or the water pump not pumping because
the impeller is loose, fallen off, or eaten away by electrolysis.
I'd be pulling the hoses off the radiaor and back flushing it (ie hose
in the bottom) with a goodly flow of water to see how much actually
passes thru, and also what crap gets washed out.
I'd check the water pump by taking the thermostat out, removing the top
radiator hose and filling it with water as far as possible. The start
it up - it should pump a *lot* of water out the top hose if you give it
a gentle rev.
Derry Argue
news:gm7gg0dkocfhlsrgj...@4ax.com:
> Any other thoughts cos I'm running out of them!?
I did mention this before but notice it is not on your list. As
a surveyor, when everything else checks out, I'd check that the
tape measure had not stretched! (It happens more often than
you'd think).
In other words, if your temperature gauge shows too hot, are you
sure it isn't just showing an incorrect temperature? Maybe you
could get a spare from somewhere and just try swopping it.
Derry
Jon
radiator be? Hot to touch or just warm? Also, should it be hot all
over it or shoulf it get progressivly cooler towards the bottom?
will check the water pump at the weekend.
MerlinŠ
normaly at 50% of the guage but would go up to 75% when working hard, on
inspection the viscous fan was extremely slack at all temps, even cold it
would spin freely, so I replaced it & lo & behold its back to normal
operating beetween 25% & 50% even towing a trailer up & down the hills of
north wales.
So worth a try give the fan a spin cos there should be some resistance even
when cold.
Chris
1990 200Tdi Disco
EMB
> When the engine is hot (hotter than it should be) how hot should the
> radiator be? Hot to touch or just warm? Also, should it be hot all
> over it or shoulf it get progressivly cooler towards the bottom?
Top of radiator should be bloody hot (ie you won't want to touch it for
long). Bottom of radiator should be significantly cooler, but still
more than "warm". A quick test on my Hilux with an IR thermometer shows
a 27 deg C drop from top to bottom - don't take this as definitive, I've
just been out in my driveway in my dressing gown checking it for you.
Dave Piggin
inter cooler. If you've been off road thats where your problems started
MUD. Have you checked the thermastat is opening at the right
temperature? or atall. Check out the sender while your heads in there
too. When I had my 110 CSW the temp needle always sat dead in the middle
of the gauge but there again I was lucky and had an excellent engine
with no problems in 11 years since new, 200 series 122,000 miles when
sold. The best machanical engine ever made. Dave. PS Although I've seen
my old lanie in Manchester I still don,t know who's got it, any one
owning up!!! Breaks me heart.
--
Amateur Radio Call Sign M1BTI, Located in IO-83-TK, Manchester. England.
Chairman of Trafford Radio Group, G0TRG/M1BBP Located at UMIST, Manchester.
Jon
i could see any noticable speed diference on the fan when i revv'ed it
up... No such look, it looked to be just spinning regardless of rev's
so I got a garden cane and poked it to feel if there was any
resistance - NONE at all.
New viscous coupling has arrived today so i'll put it on tonight and
see if it helps.
Thanks
Jon
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:48:40 +0100, Dave Piggin <d.pi...@zetnet.co.uk>
wrote:
Jon
the engine when I rev it up.
However... Temp guage is still reading too high on longer runs when
travelling at speed.
As a last ditch attempt before getting a re-corred rad, what are the
thoughts on using Radflush or something similar on a 12 year old
radiator? Good idea or bad? Kill or cure time I am thinking?
thanks
jon
Al Stevenson
It depends how clagged up the radiator is inside - but don't forget to
check the outside clag as well.
When I had this problem I got an exchange radiator from a local firm for
about £110 fitted
In message <mtl6h0hucsh15it8q...@4ax.com>, Jon
<jonatha...@no-spam-linesurveys.co.uk> writes
--
Al Stevenson
Jon
because upon closer inspection (with cowling etc off) I found that I
onlty have about 15% of the fins intact!!!
The front face of the rad is more or less OK (about 8" of fins missing
over the whole area). From the rear though just about ALL of the fins
from the inner 3 vains are MISSIGNG - That'd do it then!
So, now I know why she istnt cooling and that I need a recore.
Question - How on earth could all those fins be missing and yet the
front ones more or less OK???
Thanks for all the help on this one - Got there in the end. I'll
arrange a recore rad today and get it on intime for the weekend (muddy
play time).
Jon
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 16:11:06 +0100, Al Stevenson <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:
hugh
<jonatha...@nospam-linesurveys.co.uk> writes
>Question - How on earth could all those fins be missing and yet the
>front ones more or less OK???
Somebody used a high pressure jet wash from the rear?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
Jon
problem has arisen since then.
New radiator going on tonight so fingers crossed for success.
Jon
Jon
Having dodged the rain drops last night I finally got the new
(re-cored) radiator in.
Now the temperature gauge sits at about 90% of the white mark rather
than verging toward the red when drivern HARD.
Did about a 30mile round trip last night and the needle never showed
any signs of moving beyond this 90% point.
To recap, whats been done so far...
a) Check for Oil in Water & Water in Oil
b) Earth straps checked
c) Waterpump checked
1. Thermostat replaced
2. Viscous coupling replaced (was knackered anyway)
3. Holts 2 part Rad-Flush
3. Radiator replaced (was dropping appart - 85% cooling vains
missing) now has plenty of coolant in.
Any ideas???
Engine is a 1992 200tdi with 145k miles - runs sweet and appears fine
with regard to speed / power / delivery etc etc.
My primary thoughts now are:
1. Air lock - engine block is more or less self bleeding with stat
being at rocker cover level. Rad, top hose and bottom hose have no
air in them and i dont THINK heater system / pipes have air in them as
pipes are HOT and heater is working. Is bleeding a 200Tdi easy or are
they renound for being a pig??
2. Faulty gauge - appears to work fine though. i would have thought
this would either work or not work?
3. Faulty sender unit - having spoken to others these either work or
dont work - Mine is clearly working???
4. Bear with me on this thought - could be a million miles off target!
Incorrect fuel pump settings... I have read before that if the mixture
is too rich or too lean then the Exhaust Gas Temperature can get too
high and be dangerous to the engine... Surely this would result in a
high temperature reading? Whilst I havent adjusted the fuel pump, air
intake or turbo is it possible that any of these "settings" could have
wondered off the mark resulting in a high EGT and thus a high
temperature reading??
5. Head Gasket. Whilst I'm not seeing the classic signs (oil in
water, water in oil) can this bee ruled out in some way - Compression
test??
Thanks
Jon
EMB
> 2. Faulty gauge - appears to work fine though. i would have thought
> this would either work or not work?
Is your fuel guage accurate? If it's a bit out too, then I'd suspect
the voltage regulator for the guages.
>
> 3. Faulty sender unit - having spoken to others these either work or
> dont work - Mine is clearly working???
They can just drift - read the manual to find it's specs, then check
it's resistance at room temp and close to boiling.
>
> 4. Bear with me on this thought - could be a million miles off target!
> Incorrect fuel pump settings... I have read before that if the mixture
> is too rich or too lean then the Exhaust Gas Temperature can get too
> high and be dangerous to the engine... Surely this would result in a
> high temperature reading? Whilst I havent adjusted the fuel pump, air
> intake or turbo is it possible that any of these "settings" could have
> wondered off the mark resulting in a high EGT and thus a high
> temperature reading??
If your fuelling is far enough out to be causing this you'll be
complaining about other *major* performance issues too, so it's pretty
unlikely.
Jon
Thanks
Jon
>Jon wrote:
>
>> 2. Faulty gauge - appears to work fine though. i would have thought
>> this would either work or not work?
>
>Is your fuel guage accurate? If it's a bit out too, then I'd suspect
>the voltage regulator for the guages.
Fuel gauge reads FULL when tank is full and it has never stopped when
it gets towrds showing nearly empty. I will run it down and see how
much i can get in to fill it up again. I suspect that its about right
though.
However, the voltage regulator you refer to, would this be the same
one that controls whether or not the rear heated windscreen works or
not? If so that is buggered and has been since I got the vehicle -
cant remember the part number of it but its like a yellow relay and
stuck behind the instrument pannel to the bulkhead (and costs about
£70 from memory!)
>
>>
>> 3. Faulty sender unit - having spoken to others these either work or
>> dont work - Mine is clearly working???
>
>They can just drift - read the manual to find it's specs, then check
>it's resistance at room temp and close to boiling.
A job for the weeken!!
>
>>
>> 4. Bear with me on this thought - could be a million miles off target!
>> Incorrect fuel pump settings... I have read before that if the mixture
>> is too rich or too lean then the Exhaust Gas Temperature can get too
>> high and be dangerous to the engine... Surely this would result in a
>> high temperature reading? Whilst I havent adjusted the fuel pump, air
>> intake or turbo is it possible that any of these "settings" could have
>> wondered off the mark resulting in a high EGT and thus a high
>> temperature reading??
>
>If your fuelling is far enough out to be causing this you'll be
>complaining about other *major* performance issues too, so it's pretty
>unlikely.
OK Good news.