Help on a brake problem please - Defender 300tdi
Guy Lux
My Defender 300tdi is veering to the left on braking, loosing brake
fluid and the inside tyre wall was wet and shiny/oily). I took the
whole right front brake calliper apart yesterday, cleaned it all up,
as I thought it was sticking. Clean and lubricated, I put it all back
together and opened the bleed valve. After a bit, brake fluid started
to come out of it, (like a radiator) so I closed it.
It still veers to the left.
I have heard that people pump the brake pedal, so have I bled wrong?
I dont think that the shocks could be to blame for the veer, I have
done a basic push test and none bounce. But if the brake pads had
been covered in brake fluid from when it leaked, could this be the
cause?
Regards and TIA
Guy
Spencer
"Guy Lux" wrote in message
> Clean and lubricated, I put it all back
> together and opened the bleed valve. After a bit, brake fluid started
> to come out of it, (like a radiator) so I closed it.
>
> It still veers to the left.
>
> I have heard that people pump the brake pedal, so have I bled wrong?
> I dont think that the shocks could be to blame for the veer, I have
> done a basic push test and none bounce. But if the brake pads had
> been covered in brake fluid from when it leaked, could this be the
> cause?
>
> Regards and TIA
>
> Guy
Guy
Disk breaks should not pull if you have bled all the air out of the system
correctly. There is a bit more to bleeding breaks than just opening the
bleed nipple.
Manual brake bleeding is the most common method of bleeding brakes; however,
you will need to enlist the help of an assistant. With your assistant
sitting in the driver's seat, repeat the following six steps a number of
times on each brake until you are sure there is no air trapped in the
system. Use a block of wood behind the pedal to prevent it from travelling
all the way to the floor. Lastly, place a three foot piece of vinyl hose on
the end of the bleeder screw to direct old fluid into a plastic container.
1 Instruct your assistant to pump the brake pedal for thirty seconds
2 Instruct your assistant to press and hold the brake pedal firmly
3 Open a bleeder screw and let the air and old fluid escape
4 Close the bleeder screw
5 Instruct your assistant to release the brake pedal
6 Wait fifteen seconds
Now repeat this about 5 or six times.
Any break fluid that got onto the pads will burn its set off after a break
intensive drive.
You did not say where the fluid was leaking from. Did you check how good the
pistons and seals were in the calliper??
Regards
Spencer
Rustbucket
"Spencer" <spencer...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:aq66lm$a87$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
>
>
> Any break fluid that got onto the pads will burn its set off after a break
> intensive drive.
No it wont !!!!!!!
Guy, change the pads, preferably on both front brakes. The brake fluid will
have contaminated the brake pads and they are useless now. Never drive
around with brake pads that have had brake fluid, or any kind of oil on
them. Spencer's description of how to bleed the brakes is fine, and you
shouldn't have to bleed the front brake that is not leaking after you have
changed the pads.
>
> You did not say where the fluid was leaking from. Did you check how good
the
> pistons and seals were in the calliper??
If it's leaking from the calipers, either buy a seal kit and overhaul them,
or fit new calipers. The fluid has to be leaking from somewhere.
Personally, and I know it's a bit more expensive, I always change brakes,
calipers, bearings, shocks and springs in pairs. It's a safety thing and if
one side has gone, you can guarantee that the other is on it's way out. It
also means that both sides of the vehicle wears at the same rate, and you
are not putting any extra strain on the older parts.
Cheers
Rustbucket.
Guy Lux
Thanks for the bleeding tips, I feared there may be a bit more to it than
the old radiator method. Assistant is most likely to be the girlfriend, if
I can persuade her.....
I think I may have screwed the pads up by soaking them in strong detergent
to get rid of the oil. I'll have to order some new ones.
I'm not entirely sure where it was leaking from, I had given the calliper
good squirt with the hose before taking it apart, and the pistons were not
as dirty as I had expected. But the pad and calliper on the motor side were
dirtier. The rubber on the piston seals did not look perished, so I'll have
to do some serious breaking to see if it still leaks.
Thanks for you help and I'll let you know how it goes
Guy
Guy Lux
I think I will change the brake pads as I'm sure they are screwed after a
soak in detergent to get the brake fluid off. As you suggest, I heard it is
better to change both sides together.
I'm not too sure where the fluid is or was leaking from, but now the
calliper is clean, it should be easier to see. I did check the piston seals
but they were not perished.
Thanks a lot for the advice.
I should get the new pads soon, so will let you know how Spencer's bleeding
and the new pads affect the braking direction. I need to get it sorted, as
here in Luxembourg I'm on the wrong side of the road, and it steers me into
oncoming traffic :-o
Guy
Rustbucket
"Guy Lux" <guysca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dc6e7e5$1...@news.vo.lu...
Guy,
It might be difficult to see whether or not the seals have gone. If the
pistons are sticking, the hydraulic pressure will force fluid out past the
seals when you brake. Have you checked the pistons for rusting/scoring? I
had a similar problem with my RR some time ago - opposite wheel though.
Cured by fitting new calipers, to both sides of course :O)).
Thinking about Spencer's comments on bleeding, you might be better to buy a
brake bleeding kit from a local auto accessory shop, especially if you have
never done this before. One end of the tube fits over the bleed nipple, and
the other end into a plastic jar in which you should fill with a couple of
inches of clean brake fluid. The advantage here is that the jar end of the
clear plastic tube has a one way valve fitted so it can't draw air back into
the system. They're cheap enough to buy and saves a lot of time and effort.
Proceed then as per Spencer's instructions. Keep checking the master
cylinder levels though, and don't let it drop past half full or you will
draw more air into the system.
Cheers
Rustbucket.
Steve Ho
Best tool for bleeding brakes IMHO is the Gunson Eazibleed (available from
Halfords) which uses a reservoir with a cap sealed to the master cylinder
and the spare tyre to pressurise. Fill the reservoir with fluid, connect to
the spare tyre then just open the bleed valve. The pressure forces the air
out as it forces the fluid in, just check the reservoir still has fluid in
and do each one in turn until there are no bubbles in the fluid coming out.
It seems to succeed when the manual method doesn't.
--
Steve Ho
Discovery 200TDi - 1990
BMW R80/7 - 1979
Aprilia RSV1000 Mille - 2000
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog
<stev...@hotmail.com> said
>Best tool for bleeding brakes IMHO is the Gunson Eazibleed (available from
>Halfords) which uses a reservoir with a cap sealed to the master cylinder
>and the spare tyre to pressurise. Fill the reservoir with fluid, connect to
>the spare tyre then just open the bleed valve. The pressure forces the air
>out as it forces the fluid in, just check the reservoir still has fluid in
>and do each one in turn until there are no bubbles in the fluid coming out.
>It seems to succeed when the manual method doesn't.
I'll second this: an Easibleed was the only way I was able to finally
get the trapped wind out of the clutch hydraulics on my old SIIa.
Guy Lux
The pistons were a tiny bit dimpled, but looked like nothing serious. I'll
have to see if they leak and if so I'll order some new ones. I'm just being
tight fisted at the moment :-) Not conducive to your symmetry
theory........ although I know you're right.
Do you reckon new callipers are essential, or would new seals and pistons
cure it? Its the 'belt and braces' solution though.
I haven't had a chance to try out Spencer's bleeding tips yet. I have some
clear tubing that should fit well over the bleed nipple so I'll give that a
try first. If not I'll go for the brake bleed kit. Should be able to give
it try on Wed night.
Cheers for your help
Guy
Guy Lux
offer here in Luxembourg, (no Halfords unfortunately) Got the idea though,
using the spare tire pressure. I'll give the normal method a try first.
Regards,
Guy
William MacLeod
> offer here in Luxembourg, (no Halfords unfortunately) Got the idea
> though, using the spare tire pressure. I'll give the normal method a try
> first.
If you do use a ezibleed, please remember to read the instructions and get
your spare to the CORRECT pressure - otherwise you'll connect it up find
brake fluid blowing everywhere...
Gunson's have a website http://www.gunsons.co.uk/ and everything I have
bought from them (though none of it over the web) has been reasonably
priced, execptionally useful and generaly pays for itself in very little
time. Highly recommended :)
Regards
William MacLeod
Spencer
"Guy Lux" wrote in message
> Hi,
>
> The pistons were a tiny bit dimpled, but looked like nothing serious.
I'll
> have to see if they leak and if so I'll order some new ones. I'm just
being
> tight fisted at the moment :-) Not conducive to your symmetry
> theory........ although I know you're right.
> Do you reckon new callipers are essential, or would new seals and pistons
> cure it? Its the 'belt and braces' solution though.
>
Guy
When I had problems with my front brakes on the 90, I bought the service kit
for the calliper pistons. Its a fraction of the price of a complete set of
new callipers. In the box comes 4 new pistons, new rubber O rings and seals
and a flimsy retainer clip that sits around the rim of the calliper to hold
everything in place. Very difficult to re-fit without some patience or
perhaps a specialist tool. However I managed.
This solved my weeping calliper problem. The only thing to look out for in
the calliper is for any scoring inside the cylinder where the piston fits.
Scoring here will cause the calliper to leak, even with new seals and
pistons fitted. Remember to clean everything and lubricate them with break
fluid. Its nasty stuff, so workshop gloves are a good idea.
Best of luck and kind regards
Spencer
LR90 2.5TD
RR4.6HSE
Richard Brookman
at thr front - funny how I never noticed with the diesel - I wonder why!
The problem was partially siezed pistons rather than a leak, but I bought
the service kit as Spencer describes - far cheaper than new calipers. The
guy I got them from (Peter Claughton, to all you S Wales people) said that
rusty pistons were common, but damaged calipers very rare. My pistons (when
I finally got them out) looked like they had been dug up from a Civil War
battlefield, but the calipers were mint - I was quite surprised. New
calipers are hundreds - service kit a few tens.
And like someone else said - ALWAYS do both sides.
--
===============================
Rich
V8 90
Disco II
"Spencer" <spencer...@nospambtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:aqantj$jq$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
Mike Buckley
Given that we're talking about brakes! And the ability to actually stop
the thing!
Yes, we all have to learn but is there someone who could help you with
the work?
And finally, are you sure that the callipers were actually leaking (was
the fluid level dropping ???) Have you checked to see whether its a
leaking hub seal?
Mike.
"Guy Lux" <guysca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3dc6e7a7$1...@news.vo.lu...
Guy Lux
No, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm not too bad with practical stuff
and it will probably work out. I've ordered some parts, and if I do screw
it up, I'll take it to the garage. (Like I had to for my first tappet
adjustment attempt, nightmare....) But as you say, this is one of the
reasons I wanted to buy a Defender in the first place, to learn how it all
works. I have to give it a go.
It was loosing quite a bit of brake fluid and the calliper was pretty dirty,
so I'm pretty sure that's it. Thanks for the voice of reason though. I do
think twice before messing with anything too complicated and apart from
changing the turbo, I've not really touched the engine.......yet :-)
Guy
Spencer
"Guy Lux" wrote in message
>
> No, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm not too bad with practical stuff
> and it will probably work out. I've ordered some parts, and if I do screw
> it up, I'll take it to the garage. (Like I had to for my first tappet
> adjustment attempt, nightmare....) But as you say, this is one of the
> reasons I wanted to buy a Defender in the first place, to learn how it all
> works. I have to give it a go.
Guy
This is exactly why the defender is such a great car, until you get to the
TD5 where you need a laptop to change a tyre. I have had two series vehicles
now and a 90. When I bought my first, other than knowing where they normally
corrode, I knew nothing. I barely new the difference between diesel and
petrol.
However, the mechano approach to service and maintenance with a workshop
manual and parts book, is fantastic fun and gives a really good grounding
into vehicle mechanics. Arrh I will be wanting to enter a team on Scrapheap
Challenge next......
Happy tinkering
Spencer