Welding near the lpg and petrol filler
Graeme
I have to weld a new RH floor panel into the Range Ruster next week. This
will require removal of the rear outer wing and will leave me with the fuel
filler cap and the LPG filler cap exposed. Now I would appreciate not
blowing the entire ensemble (including myself) to smithereens but, at the
same time wonder if dropping the fuel tank is a necessity?
I figure that the LPG filler can be pulled out and away from the body on its
copper pipe far enough to escape any likelihood of a Big Bang but what about
the petrol filler? Is it possible to do something to it that would make
welding near it safe or am I just looking at having to get the petrol tank
off?
Graeme
Terry Lyne
news:bgnblg$q9bb4$1...@ID-198594.news.uni-berlin.de:
The code of practice (LPGA COP11:2001) says about welding within 1m of
tank'...fuel lines should be emptied and the tank removed or shielded from
the heat'.
The lines can be emptied in the open air (beware of frost burns).
If you are using a pit it should have gas detectors fitted at the bottom
where gas will build up.
Terry
Graeme
"Terry Lyne" <terry...@thatbtisp.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93CE5318CCC7Bte...@217.32.252.50...
No pit - common, garden driveway ! Useful to dissipate fuel vapours but also
no use on a breezy day when trying to MIG weld as the shielding gas tends to
dissipate too.....
I'm more bothered about the petrol tank because (as you say) the LPG boils
off quickly when venting a tank whereas petrol vapours have a nasty tendency
to hang around the place
Graeme
Exit
Don't know if it will be any use to you, but ISTR Frost Auto Restorations
used to do a putty called 'Cold Front' or something that you place near to
where you are welding and it stops the heat spreading to bits you don't want
to get hot!
Not sure if they still sell it, but try:
--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =
Geoff J
> welding near it safe or am I just looking at having to get the petrol tank
> off?
How about just draining the tank and leaving it to vent (drain plug
out and filler cap off) for a couple of days - its the fumes that's
the really explosive stuff. Alternatively you could drain it and then
blow through with an air line?
Geoff
Austin Shackles
<terry...@thatbtisp.com> enlightened us thusly:
looking at it another way, don't release gas anywhere near the pit.
Mind you, I was welding the chassis right beside my LPG tank the other day,
and it didn't blow up. Admittedly, not near the filler. The only way you
get gas in the vicinity is via a leak. The tank and all lines are sealed.
you should exercise care in welding near to flexible filler hoses, which
being rubbery stuff can get burnt, so moving 'em out of the way would be
good. The filler hose should be sealed at both ends, by a valve on the tank
and a valve in the filler, so a flexible filler hose should only release the
gas in the hose itself if you undo it.
in still or slow-moving air, LPG will sink to the floor and run downhill,
hence not venting it near your pit.
finally, don't use a vacuum cleaner to remove flammable fumes...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)
Dave Pseudonym
Oo-er missus. Don't do this! Petrol fumes will hang around for ever.
Leaving it to evaporate in the way you describe is not an option, and
even blowing it through is useless. ISTR the "official" method if a
fuel tank needed welding was to pass steam through it under pressure
for at least two hours, or to fill with water and detergent and leave
for a few days before draining. Empty fuel tanks are about the most
dangerous thing in the automotive world. You would probably be safer
welding near a full one.
Personally I wouldn't weld anywhere near a fuel tank. I would drop it
out and store it somewhere in the next county before I even got the
welding gear out.
I've no doubt that people do weld near to fuel tanks and the like, but
not when I am around. Just imagine the consequences if you got it
wrong...
DaveP
Austin Shackles
Pseudonym) enlightened us thusly:
petrol tanks are rather dodgy, it's true. Gas tanks, being sealed, are less
of a problem, provided you don't heat them a lot, which could conceivably
cause a pressure increase and make the tank vent through the safety valve,
so you wouldn't want to be welding the tank itself, or doing a lot of
welding nearby. A small patch on the chassis adjacent to the tank is less
of a problem.
dropping tanks is a pain, and I try to avoid it whenever possible.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
QrizB
Pseudonym) wrote:
>ISTR the "official" method if a fuel tank needed welding was to
>pass steam through it under pressure for at least two hours, or
>to fill with water and detergent and leave for a few days before
>draining. Empty fuel tanks are about the most dangerous thing
>in the automotive world. You would probably be safer welding
>near a full one.
There was an article in "4x4" magazine recently where the editor was
having a new fuel tank fitted in his notalandrover. The replacement
tank was intended for a different model, and didn't have a filler
orifice in the right place. The (professional?) who was doing the
fitting simply filled the old tank with water, then cut the filler out
with an angle grinder.
Welding it into the new, never-used tank was presumably a less fraught
affair.
--
QrizB
I sound like I know what I'm talking about, but don't
be fooled.
McBad
Dave Pseudonym <daveps...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b095caef.03080...@posting.google.com...
I agree with Dave! I was involved in an experiment whereby we filled a
plastic 2 litre milk container with petrol, wrapped it in a belt of cortex
and set it off with a detonator. Rather than burning the petrol basically
detonated... Not an exact comparison with your welding problem but similar
enough to make me very wary of getting sparks or heat near petrol!
Please would you advise which county you intend to weld in, so that I can go
on holiday that day if need be.
Cheers,
M.
If you
Austin Shackles
enlightened us thusly:
It won't blow up if it's *full* of water. however, most people don't want
water in their fuel tank - not a problem in the case quoted.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]
Graeme
"McBad" <mc...@NOSPAMglobalnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YO6dnZekMOj...@brightview.com...
General consensus (from a mate that does it for a living) is that petrol
tanks are well dodgy - he'd much rather weld near a full one than a half
empty one - the danger lies in the vapours. The LPG does not seem too much
of a worry as there are one way valves all over the shop (I managed to weld
the LH side without self igniting) but the petrol does worry me.
With the Series 2a dropping the tank is a p**ce of p*ss but I can foresee
all sorts of troubles with the RR - having said that? Yeah - drop the tank I
reckon - pants innit? At least one of the captive bolts is not going to be
captive and the drain plug is 100% guaranteed to be rusted solid :-(
Graeme
Simon Isaacs
"Graeme" <sakw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bgpbsg$qhlg4$1...@ID-198594.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Oi be welding down here in Devon if that helps?
>
> General consensus (from a mate that does it for a living) is that petrol
> tanks are well dodgy - he'd much rather weld near a full one than a half
> empty one - the danger lies in the vapours. The LPG does not seem too much
> of a worry as there are one way valves all over the shop (I managed to
weld
> the LH side without self igniting) but the petrol does worry me.
> With the Series 2a dropping the tank is a p**ce of p*ss but I can foresee
> all sorts of troubles with the RR - having said that? Yeah - drop the tank
I
> reckon - pants innit? At least one of the captive bolts is not going to be
> captive and the drain plug is 100% guaranteed to be rusted solid :-(
>
> Graeme
>
>
Where abouts you be in devon my luverly (spent 4 years living in Newton
Abbot)
The range rover repair manual as published by landrover states that to weld
a tank is dodgy, but should it be neccessary, first steam it for 2 hours.
Sounded more like a recipe to make Xmas pud if you ask me.
I did once try repairing a tank once. I dropped it, drained and it stood
outside for 5 days. It didn't explode, but the flame out of the filler cap
would have made Arthur Whittle extremely jealous, especially as it moved
across the floor at what seemd like Mach3 at the time! After that little
episode, I decided I would never repair another tank, no matter how small or
insignificant the hole or leak..... Cheaper for a new tank than new limbs.
Interestingly enough, the Army, Navy and RAF claim that you can use Avtur
(jet fuel) to extinguish a fire if it is in liquid form, its only a problem
if its a vapour. The yanks also spray petrol onto fires made of cotton
bales as it is the only substance which will penetrate to the middle of the
fire, where the absence of fumes renders it inert hence extinguishing the
fire.......
--
Simon Isaacs
Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman and Webmaster
3.5V8 100" Hybrid
Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfirend)
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
Pug 106 (offroaded once!!)
Graeme
In the past I've set fire mainly to carpets, bitumen paint and through
chassis wiring looms on Series Land Rovers :-))
A petrol tank would be The BIGGY??
Nah - think I'll drop the fuel tank out before I weld the new floor panel to
the new wheel arch
Graeme
"Simon Isaacs" <Peterbo...@nochoppedhambtopenworld.com> wrote in
message news:bgpd4g$qh8$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Simon Isaacs
favourite haunt on a Saturday morning and great for clearing student
hangover (I was at Seale Hayne Agricultural College, latterly Uni of
Plymouth, on the A383 towards Bickington, near the Dartmoor Halfway House
Pub)
--
Simon Isaacs
Peterborough 4x4 Club Chairman and Webmaster
3.5V8 100" Hybrid
Suzuki SJ410 (Girlfirend)
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
Pug 106 (offroaded once!!)
"Graeme" <sakw...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bgpdit$r170b$1...@ID-198594.news.uni-berlin.de...
Austin Shackles
enlightened us thusly:
>>
>Oi be welding down here in Devon if that helps?
>
>General consensus (from a mate that does it for a living) is that petrol
>tanks are well dodgy - he'd much rather weld near a full one than a half
>empty one - the danger lies in the vapours. The LPG does not seem too much
>of a worry as there are one way valves all over the shop (I managed to weld
>the LH side without self igniting) but the petrol does worry me.
>With the Series 2a dropping the tank is a p**ce of p*ss but I can foresee
>all sorts of troubles with the RR - having said that? Yeah - drop the tank I
>reckon - pants innit? At least one of the captive bolts is not going to be
>captive and the drain plug is 100% guaranteed to be rusted solid :-(
RR tank is not that bad to get out, provided as you say the captive nuts
behave. I have to admit, when I dropped the one on the 110 I wasn't
intending to replace it.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
Alphonse Karr (1808 - 1890) Les Guêpes, Jan 1849
Austin Shackles
<Peterbo...@nochoppedhambtopenworld.com> enlightened us thusly:
>
>I did once try repairing a tank once. I dropped it, drained and it stood
>outside for 5 days. It didn't explode, but the flame out of the filler cap
>would have made Arthur Whittle extremely jealous, especially as it moved
>across the floor at what seemd like Mach3 at the time! After that little
>episode, I decided I would never repair another tank, no matter how small or
>insignificant the hole or leak..... Cheaper for a new tank than new limbs.
I did similar, but washed it out with soapy water. Didn't ignite.
small holes can be repaired with epoxy glue (Araldite, JB Weld, etc)
Graeme
Abbot from Seale Hayne and I get over that way once in a blue moon)
Right - must get out in the sunshine and weld (well clutch first methinks)
Graeme
"Simon Isaacs" <Peterbo...@nochoppedhambtopenworld.com> wrote in
message news:bgpe18$onf$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
John Halliwell
<aus...@ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>petrol tanks are rather dodgy, it's true. Gas tanks, being sealed, are less
>of a problem, provided you don't heat them a lot, which could conceivably
>cause a pressure increase and make the tank vent through the safety valve,
>so you wouldn't want to be welding the tank itself, or doing a lot of
>welding nearby. A small patch on the chassis adjacent to the tank is less
>of a problem.
How are you fixed welding door pillars and footwells near underseat
military tanks (in my case containing the remains of 6 year old petrol)?
Particularly given my grinding/welding skills have yet to be tested!
If the tanks have to come out, I might replace them with new ones.
--
John
Ex MOD 109 -> http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk/landy.htm
Preston, Lancs, UK.
Graeme
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:sEGbpSAoEVM$Ew...@photopia.demon.co.uk...
If they bolt onto the outriggers like the civvy series model then I'd drop
them off just to be safe - it's mucho easier than a RR I reckon - however I
have done this in the past with my Series LR and the unbolting cracked a
seam in the twenty something year old tank which I found out (to my disgust)
when I had replaced it and filled back up :-(
So - Hobson's Choice??
Graeme
Wayne Davies
made me spill my meths by writing:
>> How are you fixed welding door pillars and footwells near underseat
>> military tanks (in my case containing the remains of 6 year old petrol)?
>If they bolt onto the outriggers like the civvy series model then I'd drop
>them off just to be safe - it's mucho easier than a RR I reckon - however I
>have done this in the past with my Series LR and the unbolting cracked a
>seam in the twenty something year old tank which I found out (to my disgust)
>when I had replaced it and filled back up :-(
Likewise here, I had hoped both tanks would be OK but in the event,
one of them didn't like being removed at all and was binned. The
outrigger had seen better days as well. I might have got another few
years out of both but the disturbance at the time was what finished
them off. Unless you are prepared to fork out for at least one tank
(the outriggers aren't too expensive at all) then maybe best left
alone.
There is a bolt to get to at the rear most outrigger that, if old and
covered in crud, is an absolute nightmare. Definite candidate for a
lifetimes covering of grease or whatever to keep the corrosion away.
As for welding in the vicinity, apart from the possibility of fumes,
you should be alright with some shielding. Beware the fuel lines
though, weld spatters won't agree one bit with them. Welding on the
passenger door pillar might be a bit close to the carb as well.
I had someone with me with a water squirter when I was welding in
harder to get areas. Sometimes he saw my overalls smoking, other times
I had to scream loudly and try to run away from the hot bits, not easy
when they have already made it through the first few layers.
All the best
--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK