The Truth about Legacy Center (Lifespring spinoff)
Dru
along with Landmark, was a spinoff of "est") and is located in Morrisville
(near Raleigh), NC. They conduct large group awareness trainings (LGAT)
for their participants to supposedly "breakthrough" whatever may be
holding them back from living the life they want to live and improve
relationships.
Their operations, effects of the trainings, etc. are controversial.
The "Legacy Center Truth" website/forum was formed out of this
controversy. Many people have had negative effects either from Legacy
trainings or friends/relatives who have taken the trainings. However, up
until this time there was not a good medium to exchange information and
stories related to The Legacy Center. Legacy Center Truth is an attempt to
fill this void
and was started especially for legacy center related discussions. No
registration. No IP addresses shown. All posts are anonymous. Many
Legacy graduates have visited and posted and would like to see this
information made more public.
If you are interested in participating or just reading and becoming more
informed:
Tex
"Dru" <susans...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:027803b01ec91b57...@localhost.talkaboutpeople.com...
> The Legacy Center is a spinoff of the now defunct Lifespring, Inc. (which,
> along with Landmark, was a spinoff of "est")
I think you need to check your facts. Lifespring was founded by John Hanley,
once a leader of Alexander Everett's Mind Dynamics. Werner Erhard was also a
leader in Mind Dynamics. Lifespring was not a spinoff of Est, as you claim
above.
Other than the connection stated above, I only know of one other person
connected to all 3. Charlene Afremow was a leader in Mind Dynamics and
mentor of Werner Erhard. She helped Hanley start Lifepring. She later went
to work for Werner as an Est Trainer. She later sued Werner for wrongful
firing and age discrimination.
Feel the love. {:~D
Dru
I was aware that John Hanley founded Lifespring. And I am also aware that
the Legacy center grew out of Lifespring (the two co-founders, Lori Todd
and Rob Katz were involved in the LS trainings in the DC area before
opening up their own training company in NC) and conducts Lifespring-type
trainings.
Do you know where the information that you've supplied on the others can
be confirmed... as on a website somewhere perhaps?
Thanks for the input.
Caligari
news:o-6dnUy1pNn...@adelphia.com...
>
> "Dru" <susans...@nospamyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:027803b01ec91b57...@localhost.talkaboutpeople.com...
> > The Legacy Center is a spinoff of the now defunct Lifespring, Inc.
(which,
> > along with Landmark, was a spinoff of "est")
>
> I think you need to check your facts. Lifespring was founded by John
Hanley,
> once a leader of Alexander Everett's Mind Dynamics. Werner Erhard was also
a
> leader in Mind Dynamics. Lifespring was not a spinoff of Est, as you claim
> above.
>
> Other than the connection stated above, I only know of one other person
> connected to all 3. Charlene Afremow was a leader in Mind Dynamics and
> mentor of Werner Erhard. She helped Hanley start Lifepring. She later went
> to work for Werner as an Est Trainer. She later sued Werner for wrongful
> firing and age discrimination.
>
> Feel the love. {:~D
>
Charlene Afremow is a Forum Leader at Landmark. I saw talked about a year
ago at the graduation of a Landmark Forum for Young People that she was
leading.
-- Caligari
Dru
I found information regarding the evolution of LGATs on a web page
entitled "Mind Dynamics - Alexander Everett".
I know that at least part of the information on that page is outdated
because it states that "Charlene Afremow joined Erhard's organization as a
trainer. She later left in a dispute and is now back at Lifespring." I
know that can't be right because 1) Lifespring does not exist anymore (at
least not under that specific name), and 2) because of what you said
Caligari.... that you recently saw her at a Landmark function.
Would you two please look at the other information and let me know if you
think and/or know if the rest of the info is factual?
"Mind Dynamics - Alexander Everett
(excerpts)
Mind Dynamics, founded by Alexander Everett, was the major forerunnner of
the Large Group
Awareness Trainings. In Texas, he completed the work that led to the
founding in 1968 of Mind
Dynamics, the experiential human potential training organization that was
to become the
forerunner of est, Lifespring, Actualizations, and several other human
potential training
organizations that flourished in the 1970s and continue to do so in the
80s.
Mind Dynamics was a success and attracted William Penn Patrick's
attention. He had a pyramid
sales organization called Holiday Magic, which sold cosmetics. He also had
a training
organization known as Leadership Dynamics. He bought Everett's training in
1970 intending to
use it as an additional training vehicle for his distributors.
When Leadership Dynamics and Mind Dynamics shut down, some of the
instructors went out on
their own.
* Four of them [Bob White, Randy Revell, Charlene Afremow, John Hanley]
founded Lifespring
in 1974.
* Another, Werner Erhard, founded est in 1971 which evolved into The
Forum.
* Bob White left Lifespring, went to Japan, and started a training
organization there called Life
Dynamics.
* Randy Revell left Lifespring and founded the Context Trainings.
* Charlene Afremow joined Erhard's organization as a trainer. She later
left in a dispute and is
now back at Lifespring.
* Howard Nease founded Personal Dynamics.
* Jim Quinn founded Lifestream
* Thomas Willhite founded PSI World Seminars
* Stewart Emery worked for est and later founded Actualizations
* William Penn Patrick's training organization recovered and is known
today as Leadership
Dynamics.
Sources:
1) "New Realities" magazine, May/June 1987 in an
article entitled "Alexander Everett and Complete Centering" by Neal Vahle.
2) Alexander Everett Biography
3) Thanks to Bill West, DJ Percy, and Linda Chase for their postings on
alt.fan.landmark"
Full text can be found at
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/mind.htm
Tex
"Caligari" <irag...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:GtKdnc-12J9...@comcast.com...
She sued Landmark for 2 million dollars in 1991. She is not among the Forum
Leaders listed on their web page. In fact, there is no one by the name of
Charlene that is a Forum Leader.
When she left in 1991 she went back to Lifespring, an organization she
helped found in 1974.
Since she tried to sue them and said some really bad things about Werner I
doubt they'd have her back. Perhaps you saw someone else last year.
Tex
> Tex and Caligari,
>
> I found information regarding the evolution of LGATs on a web page
> entitled "Mind Dynamics - Alexander Everett".
>
> I know that at least part of the information on that page is outdated
> because it states that "Charlene Afremow joined Erhard's organization as a
> trainer. She later left in a dispute and is now back at Lifespring." I
> know that can't be right because 1) Lifespring does not exist anymore (at
> least not under that specific name), and 2) because of what you said
> Caligari.... that you recently saw her at a Landmark function.
She is not a Forum Leader. She sued Landmark in 1991. She accused Erhard and
Landmark of this in the lawsuit, among other things. I doubt they'd hire her
back and she is no where to be found on their website. When I checked out
the list of Forum Leaders a couple of years ago, she was not listed then
either. I think Cal saw someone else.
"Afremow, 56, claimed that she was fired after criticizing such policies as
making employees work 12 to 16 hours a day and six days a week, with
burdensome travel schedules. In her suit, she claimed that employees were
ordered to consider Erhard as "Source" -- in other words, the "source" of
everything in their lives -- and were expected to emulate him."
She went back to work for Lifespring after 1991. She would be 70 years old
now.
I doubt they would hire her back after she claimed this in her lawsuit.
"Afremow -- a longtime Erhard associate who led seminars in est (Erhard
Seminars Training) and its 1980s successor, the Forum -- is also suing
Erhard and two other officials of Werner Erhard & Associates for $2 million
in San Francisco Superior Court, alleging wrongful firing, age and sex
discrimination, intentional infliction of emotional distress and
defamation."
She always seemed stressed out to me. Now I know why. I didn't care for her.
I liked many of the other Trainers/Forum Leaders I met.
The above quotes were from the March 27, 1991 Los Angeles Times.
Here's the link to the article.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/est/est3.html
computeruser
She got ~~complete~~ with Landmark and they got ~~complete~~ with her in the
late 1990's. I do not question that she may have been around as Caligari
stated. Perhaps part of the new relationship is that they thought it best to
keep her name off public websites, and otherwise maintain a low profile.
computeruser
Tex
"computeruser" <cyra...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:ad475$4276f78f$42a1c61e$19...@FUSE.NET...
Did that "completion" involve a large amount of cash perhaps? {:~D
IF she is leading Forums again why wouldn't it benefit Landmark to display
her name as a Forum leader?
It would show that she got over the need to sue them for emotional distress
and sex discrimation. It moght also dispel rumors she accused Werner of
being a crook and laundering money through Transnational Education. Pretty
strong accusations. Maybe she was just "making it up."
"Completing," whatever that means, is a far cry from returning as an
employee. But stranger things have happened.
Here's more of her accusations from her lawsuit.
<Begin snip>
Among other things, the suit contended, Erhard conducted a sale of personal
property, including valuable wine, art and clothing, to raise cash.
According to the documents, the actions were part of a plan by Erhard to
transfer assets to "persons acting under his control (and) to liquidate for
cash" considerable amounts of property, with an eye toward putting the
assets out of the reach of creditors.
"Erhard has both removed and concealed assets," claimed the suit, which was
filed Friday. "The circumstances strongly suggest that Erhard made the
transfers with the actual intent to defraud, delay and hinder his
creditors."
The papers allege that Erhard is to receive half the profits on the sale of
any real estate assets, 25% of Transnational Education's profits and a
portion of the revenues from the sale of courses and programs that he
originated. No cash changed hands in the "sale," the suit alleged.
"Superior Court Judge Richard Breiner on Friday ordered Erhard and
Transnational officials to temporarily refrain from transferring additional
funds. "
<end snip>
Caligari
LOL, I don't know if things have changed in her being a Forum Leader since
last year, she is in here 70's -- may have retired. But she definately was
there and leading Forums. I know her quite well -- I boarded at her house
(she lived in San Rafael then) for three months around 1981.
You can also check with Linda who went to a Intro to the Forum led by
Charlene Afremow in St. Paul a few years ago.
-- Caligari
> >
> > <snip>
Caligari
Here is a web reference to Charlene Afremow working at Landmark:
http://landmark-education.biography.ms/
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Landmark%20Education
http://wikiwhat.com/encyclopedia/l/la/landmark_education.html
Prominent Employees of Landmark
a.. Harry Rosenberg , brother of Werner Erhard, heads Landmark Education.
b.. Art Schreiber functions in the important role of legal representative:
Landmark has issued legal threats against media organizations who appear
likely to cast Landmark Education in a negative light.
c.. Charlene Afremow has conducted courses from the earliest appearances
of Werner Erhard in the personal training field.
d.. Steve Zaffron , CEO of Landmark Education Business Development
-- Caligari
> <snip>
Caligari
Here is a references in the newsgroup to Charlene coming back to work for
Landmark:
==========================
Newsgroups: alt.fan.landmark From: Lawrence Berrick
Date: 1999/09/01 Subject: Re: Charlene Afremow: What Happened?
Last June 27th Linda Chase posted a reply to the question Charlene Afremow:
What Happened?
There has been a lot made up about what happened with Charlene Afremow. She
filed a lawsuit against Werner Erhard and Associates and lost the lawsuit.
She always thought well of Werner Erhard.
She also has always thought well of Landmark Education Corporation,and in
fact has come back to work at Landmark Education Corporation recently.
There was an announcement distributed in May and I got a copy to let you
know what is really happening with Charlene. This speaks to the power of
what is available in Landmark Education Corporation and its programs.
Although est and Werner Erhard and Associates are definitely not Landmark
Education Corporation, Charlene is one of the few people who has now worked
at all 3 companies.
Although your comments were about est and Werner Erhard and Associates, I
have read your postings and know you have an axe to grind with Landmark
Education Corporation. Therefore, I wanted to set the
record straight.
This announcement was written by Nancy Zapolski, who is a Forum Leader
accountable for developing all leaders in Landmark Education Corporation.
***********************************************************************
A number of you know Charlene Afremow, a number of you may have heard of
her and many of you do not know her.
For those of you that don't know her, Charlene was an est Trainer and then
a Forum Leader from September, 1975 until April 1988. In April, 1988 her
employment was terminated and later that year she filed a
lawsuit against Werner Erhard and Associates charging wrongful termination.
In the case, the court ruled in favor of Werner Erhard and Associates
on the major points. Like many lawsuits, the case was strongly pursued by
both the plaintiff and the defendants and left the people on both sides
out of relationship with each other.
As time went by, although there was no direct communication with Charlene,
someone would hear from time to time of people who had registered in the
Landmark Forum or applied for Staff here at
Landmark Education Corporation because of her recommendation.
In October, 1997, while creating the future LEC
2020,particularly...
People and enterprises alive with freedom,
Operating with power,
Creating and fulfilling new worlds of opportunity
and out of my own relationship with Charlene as a Landmark Forum Leader, I
called Charlene to be in communication and spoke to her for the first time
in 9 years.
I called inside of the possibility to have the past be complete.
Over the past year and a half Charlene and I have remained in
communication and as our communication developed, a possibility for the
future began to arise. From our first phone call, Charlene has always
said that the issue she had and what the lawsuit was about was never about
Werner or the work. She has unabashedly expressed her
love and respect for the Landmark Forum Leaders, the Landmark staff and the
work.
Out of Charlene's and my conversations, in January 1999,Charlene,
Steve Zaffron, Harry Rosenberg, Phyllis Allen and I all met face to face
for the first time since 1988. Charlene has also met recently with Art
Schreiber, again for the first time since 1988.
In these meetings everyone got into communication, resolved questions,
completed the past and furthered the conversation for possiblity for the
future.
Charlene completed the Landmark Forum this past weekend in Washington
D.C. In her words, "it was like coming home."
This past Monday, Charlene, Harry and I met and created a tentative plan for
Charlene being trained to lead and eventually leading the Landmark Forum for
Teens.
For the next few months Charlene will be being trained to lead the
Landmark Forum for Teens.
We are all committed that this plan works and we will evaluate it together
at the end of the year.
Charlene is being great.
The following is from Charlene:
"I would like to start this communication with an acknowledgement of Nancy
Zapolski who called me approximately two years ago. She was generous beyond
anything I ever thought possible. Several months later I had dinner with
Tom and Nancy Zapolski in NYC. We talked and exchanged pictures of our past
years. We agreed to continue our
conversation which eventually included Phyllis, Harry and Steve. The moment
we all met the healing process began. What was present was deep pain and
loss of our separation and profound joy at the same time.
Without a lot of explanation, it was obvious that what was next was to
create a new beginning. We are
in the process of organizing a path that will allow this to happen.
I don't know how it was for each of you, however I am available for full and
open communication. I am open to
hear anything and everything. This event was devastating to me, however it
became a life defining experience that,
by my choice, will be used to empower others and the commitment of this
work.
My commitment to transformation is alive and present."
This Friday, May 14th Charlene will begin training to lead the Landmark
Forum for Teens in San Francisco with Phyllis Allen and Alan Edelman.
***********************************************************************
Lawrence
==========================
-- Caligari
> > <snip>
Tex
Thanks Cal. That's interesting. She probably is not listed on theire website
because she is leading the Forum for Teens. Perhaps that is a lessor
distinction.
I knew her too. But not that well.
Caligari
Welcome.
:),
Caligari
> > <snip>