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Caligari
Oct 24, 2011, 1:19:22 PM10/24/11
to
Ben,
You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
interesting info?
-- Caligari
You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
interesting info?
-- Caligari
Tex
Oct 25, 2011, 12:01:01 AM10/25/11
to
Ben Lewis
Oct 25, 2011, 12:43:51 AM10/25/11
to
Ben Lewis
Oct 25, 2011, 12:50:41 AM10/25/11
to
I will be happy to do so in a day of so. My participation on the
boats spanned about six years and there is lots to share. My two
martinis have fogged my brain this evening. I successfully winterized
our yacht today, so I am celebrating!
Ben
Tex
Oct 25, 2011, 1:58:43 AM10/25/11
to
On Oct 25, 12:50 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Thanks Ben
Beware that you will be under constant sniper attack. ;)
Fortunately, dipshits have poor aim.
~woof woof~
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Beware that you will be under constant sniper attack. ;)
Fortunately, dipshits have poor aim.
~woof woof~
Caligari
Oct 25, 2011, 3:12:07 AM10/25/11
to
On Oct 24, 9:50 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Winterizing sounds like an achievement.
Looking forward to reminiscences.
-- Caligari
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Looking forward to reminiscences.
-- Caligari
Tex
Oct 25, 2011, 10:42:28 AM10/25/11
to
On Oct 25, 12:50 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 21:01:01 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Richard Sack
Oct 25, 2011, 8:06:58 PM10/25/11
to
On Oct 24, 1:19 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
of it or when). The friend was usually candid with me but since they
had agreed to some form of confidentiality about assisting on the boat
as a condition of being there, they never said one word to me of
what they did or what was involved. I was always curious but would
not have dreamed of asking them to break their promise and they never
did.
I respected them for that and concluded that I could trust this person
in the future with matters that were private and between us.
Ben Lewis
Oct 25, 2011, 9:15:39 PM10/25/11
to
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:42:28 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Our boat is a power cruiser. We named her "BenGeM". She is a 1981
model 34 foot (at water line) diesel powered tri cabin trawler style
cruiser. Maximum speed is 7.5 knots. It is commonly known as a
CHB-34. Two staterooms, two heads. A solon containing the galley,
dining area. piloting station. A dodger enclosed fly bridge. It is a
Taiwan-built fiberglass hull and cabin with lots of carved teak inside
and out to keep up. We have cruised it throughout Puget Sound and the
Canadian Inside passage. Our longest summer cruise was six weeks
Other than a 14 foot Lido, I have never owned sailboats. All my
sailing experience has been on other people's sail boats in San
Francisco Bay (Sirona) and the Philippines on three boats. My most
memorable event was sailing a friend's new Yawl "Seafeather" from Hong
Kong to Subic Bay in the Philippines while the owner and his wife were
helplessly seasick in their bunks. Unfortunately the owner was the
only one aboard who knew celestial navigation! We didn't have GPS in
those days. So I had to go by dead reckoning navigation and luckily
made landfall in the Philippines. Could have missed the islands
completely. I went ashore to ask where we were so I would know
whether to turn North, or South to get to Subic Bay. Took three days
and two bottles of "neat", i.e. "tepid" Chivas Regal scotch. No
refrigerator! Was it fun...Yep! Would I do it again under the same
conditions.... Nope! That was in 1976. Much wiser now.
Afterwards, the owner said to me, "No wonder you didn't get
seasick...You didn't know you were at sea!"
Ben
wrote:
model 34 foot (at water line) diesel powered tri cabin trawler style
cruiser. Maximum speed is 7.5 knots. It is commonly known as a
CHB-34. Two staterooms, two heads. A solon containing the galley,
dining area. piloting station. A dodger enclosed fly bridge. It is a
Taiwan-built fiberglass hull and cabin with lots of carved teak inside
and out to keep up. We have cruised it throughout Puget Sound and the
Canadian Inside passage. Our longest summer cruise was six weeks
Other than a 14 foot Lido, I have never owned sailboats. All my
sailing experience has been on other people's sail boats in San
Francisco Bay (Sirona) and the Philippines on three boats. My most
memorable event was sailing a friend's new Yawl "Seafeather" from Hong
Kong to Subic Bay in the Philippines while the owner and his wife were
helplessly seasick in their bunks. Unfortunately the owner was the
only one aboard who knew celestial navigation! We didn't have GPS in
those days. So I had to go by dead reckoning navigation and luckily
made landfall in the Philippines. Could have missed the islands
completely. I went ashore to ask where we were so I would know
whether to turn North, or South to get to Subic Bay. Took three days
and two bottles of "neat", i.e. "tepid" Chivas Regal scotch. No
refrigerator! Was it fun...Yep! Would I do it again under the same
conditions.... Nope! That was in 1976. Much wiser now.
Afterwards, the owner said to me, "No wonder you didn't get
seasick...You didn't know you were at sea!"
Ben
Caligari
Oct 26, 2011, 1:42:23 PM10/26/11
to
On Oct 25, 6:15 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:42:28 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
haha! What is "dead reckoning navigation"? Remember, many of us are
landlubbers.
-- C
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 07:42:28 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
landlubbers.
-- C
patrick
Oct 26, 2011, 8:13:14 PM10/26/11
to
when u
do use the landmark cult jargon , and even though its been many moons
since u had anything to do with the cult , your jargon is splendid. i
dont believe
i have ever met anyone that spouted it as good as u :)
Tex
Oct 27, 2011, 12:26:52 AM10/27/11
to
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 12:38:05 AM10/27/11
to
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Ok folks, this is long, but it felt good putting it together.
Assisting on Werner's boats:
In late 1978, a call went out to the graduate seminars in the Bay Area
asking people interested in assisting on Werner's sailboat to go to a
meeting for details. At the meeting, we learned that the assisting
agreement included maintenance of the boat and service as crew when
need. Seven crews were being formed, one for each day of the week.
The weekday assistants would have a one year agreement. The Saturday
and the Sunday assistants would have a two year agreement. The weekend
assistants would be crewing (sailing ) more frequently because Werner
usually used the boat then. Each day began at 9AM (I think) and go to
"completion." So, we didn't plan any personal stuff in the evening. I
didn't know it at the time, but the boat assistants were considered
part of the Franklin House team.
The Sirona is a beautiful 48 foot "Swan" Sloop. She had lots
different sails and all the electronics and equipment for ocean trips.
Each crew consists of six (if my memory is correct) assistants and a
staff person (captain of skipper) who managed boat and crews. The
assistants would be trained as necessary.
Having some background owning and operating boats, and seeing the
opportunity to crew on such a large sailboat, I eagerly signed up for
the Sunday crew. Two years later I renewed the commitment for two
more years. After the those two agreements, I made myself available
for about a year and a half on a "on call" basis when my electrical
skills were needed. During that period, my participation gradually
tapered off and I faded from the scene.
The maintenance aspect of the agreement consumed more time than
sailing and involved minor and some more difficult tasks spanning
several days over all the crews. The staff person was an experienced
and licensed boat captain. He trained us as necessary to get the work
done. Those who weren't boat-savvy learned a lot.
The sailing and boat handling aspect of the agreement was much more
fun. The assistants were assigned crew positions and coached on how
to do their jobs. My crew post ion was in the cockpit handling the
main sheets and spinnaker sheets. "Sheets" in boat-talk are the lines
that control the trim of the sails. Two crew members managed the jib
sheets and the two-man "coffee-grinder" (winch) that controlled the
trim of the jib(s). Three crew members at the bow managed the
spinnaker and spinnaker pole. That was the most exciting and
difficult job! They raised and lowered the spinnaker and I trimmed it
with the spinnaker sheets so it stayed full without "luffing."
The captain would occasionally get Sirona underway and drill the crew
extensively on managing the various sails and on docking and
undocking. As I mentioned a lot of the assistants were new at the
game so there was lots of practice until we got it right.
Imagine the boat speeding along, heeled over in a good wind, the
sheets tight as a fiddle strings. Lines are laying on the deck and in
the cockpit awaiting an incautious crew member's foot or leg. There
was the occasional rope burn in the palm while trying to recover a
sheet that got away. And, the captain (sometimes it would Werner) is
shouting commands. There is no time for a wandering mind.
At the end of the day, after the boat is washed down and all the gear
stowed, we would all meet in the main cabin, dog tired and filled to
the brim with satisfaction for a day well spent. It's doesn't get
better than that.
When Sirona was underway with family or guests on aboard, the crew did
their jobs quietly and unobtrusively while Werner enjoyed his guests.
Some time late in my second agreement, a large power boat, the
Exuberance, was acquired by Werner. A new captain took charge of the
crews. Exuberance was quite spacious, so Werner could live aboard
when he elected to do so.
For us "old hands" there was some sadness of the loss of sailing.
Maintenance was the main activity with some line handling when under
way. It didn't really take six to dock and undock. Since the boat
had plenty of space, more assistants from Franklin House would be
aboard. I completed my agreement during the Exuberance period.
Then, Canim, a beautiful classic 96 foot yacht was acquired by Werner.
See : http://www.canim-yacht.com
Canim was huge compared with the first two. I did some on-call
(no-agreement) assisting on her.
It was enjoyable sailing while Werner skippered Sirona. He is a good
sailor and handled the boat well. Interaction with him was mostly
business-like with occasional social talk. One time while we were
underway Werner and I were in the cockpit, he on the helm and I on the
spinnaker and main sheets. Suddenly the spinnaker sheet popped off
the winch and the all the spinnaker sheet in the cockpit started to
run out. Werner grabbed it with his bare hand receiving a painful
rope burn. I felt awful! Some days later I received a gift of a pair
of sailing gloves from him. Tongue-in-cheek, I suppose. Any way, I
was honored to receive them. I felt forgiven. I used the gloves for
whitewater rafting and kayaking for several years afterwards. Still
have them.
I will always remember with fondness crewing on Sirona with my fellow
Sunday team mates. They were special. We were four men and two
women. Jim, the Sirona skipper was great. He taught us a lot. I often
wonder where they are and what they are doing. While I didn't
interact with Werner socially, I really enjoyed the workout he gave us
while sailing.
Writing this got my juices going again! Good memories. Hard to
believe it was 30 years ago!
While assisting on Werner's boats I had been honing my skills in
whitewater rafting and was ready for longer and more challenging
rivers. So, I needed my weekends free. The timing was right for
transitioning from big hard boats to small soft rubber boats on big
rivers! But that is another story.
Ben
wrote:
Assisting on Werner's boats:
In late 1978, a call went out to the graduate seminars in the Bay Area
asking people interested in assisting on Werner's sailboat to go to a
meeting for details. At the meeting, we learned that the assisting
agreement included maintenance of the boat and service as crew when
need. Seven crews were being formed, one for each day of the week.
The weekday assistants would have a one year agreement. The Saturday
and the Sunday assistants would have a two year agreement. The weekend
assistants would be crewing (sailing ) more frequently because Werner
usually used the boat then. Each day began at 9AM (I think) and go to
"completion." So, we didn't plan any personal stuff in the evening. I
didn't know it at the time, but the boat assistants were considered
part of the Franklin House team.
The Sirona is a beautiful 48 foot "Swan" Sloop. She had lots
different sails and all the electronics and equipment for ocean trips.
Each crew consists of six (if my memory is correct) assistants and a
staff person (captain of skipper) who managed boat and crews. The
assistants would be trained as necessary.
Having some background owning and operating boats, and seeing the
opportunity to crew on such a large sailboat, I eagerly signed up for
the Sunday crew. Two years later I renewed the commitment for two
more years. After the those two agreements, I made myself available
for about a year and a half on a "on call" basis when my electrical
skills were needed. During that period, my participation gradually
tapered off and I faded from the scene.
The maintenance aspect of the agreement consumed more time than
sailing and involved minor and some more difficult tasks spanning
several days over all the crews. The staff person was an experienced
and licensed boat captain. He trained us as necessary to get the work
done. Those who weren't boat-savvy learned a lot.
The sailing and boat handling aspect of the agreement was much more
fun. The assistants were assigned crew positions and coached on how
to do their jobs. My crew post ion was in the cockpit handling the
main sheets and spinnaker sheets. "Sheets" in boat-talk are the lines
that control the trim of the sails. Two crew members managed the jib
sheets and the two-man "coffee-grinder" (winch) that controlled the
trim of the jib(s). Three crew members at the bow managed the
spinnaker and spinnaker pole. That was the most exciting and
difficult job! They raised and lowered the spinnaker and I trimmed it
with the spinnaker sheets so it stayed full without "luffing."
The captain would occasionally get Sirona underway and drill the crew
extensively on managing the various sails and on docking and
undocking. As I mentioned a lot of the assistants were new at the
game so there was lots of practice until we got it right.
Imagine the boat speeding along, heeled over in a good wind, the
sheets tight as a fiddle strings. Lines are laying on the deck and in
the cockpit awaiting an incautious crew member's foot or leg. There
was the occasional rope burn in the palm while trying to recover a
sheet that got away. And, the captain (sometimes it would Werner) is
shouting commands. There is no time for a wandering mind.
At the end of the day, after the boat is washed down and all the gear
stowed, we would all meet in the main cabin, dog tired and filled to
the brim with satisfaction for a day well spent. It's doesn't get
better than that.
When Sirona was underway with family or guests on aboard, the crew did
their jobs quietly and unobtrusively while Werner enjoyed his guests.
Some time late in my second agreement, a large power boat, the
Exuberance, was acquired by Werner. A new captain took charge of the
crews. Exuberance was quite spacious, so Werner could live aboard
when he elected to do so.
For us "old hands" there was some sadness of the loss of sailing.
Maintenance was the main activity with some line handling when under
way. It didn't really take six to dock and undock. Since the boat
had plenty of space, more assistants from Franklin House would be
aboard. I completed my agreement during the Exuberance period.
Then, Canim, a beautiful classic 96 foot yacht was acquired by Werner.
See : http://www.canim-yacht.com
Canim was huge compared with the first two. I did some on-call
(no-agreement) assisting on her.
It was enjoyable sailing while Werner skippered Sirona. He is a good
sailor and handled the boat well. Interaction with him was mostly
business-like with occasional social talk. One time while we were
underway Werner and I were in the cockpit, he on the helm and I on the
spinnaker and main sheets. Suddenly the spinnaker sheet popped off
the winch and the all the spinnaker sheet in the cockpit started to
run out. Werner grabbed it with his bare hand receiving a painful
rope burn. I felt awful! Some days later I received a gift of a pair
of sailing gloves from him. Tongue-in-cheek, I suppose. Any way, I
was honored to receive them. I felt forgiven. I used the gloves for
whitewater rafting and kayaking for several years afterwards. Still
have them.
I will always remember with fondness crewing on Sirona with my fellow
Sunday team mates. They were special. We were four men and two
women. Jim, the Sirona skipper was great. He taught us a lot. I often
wonder where they are and what they are doing. While I didn't
interact with Werner socially, I really enjoyed the workout he gave us
while sailing.
Writing this got my juices going again! Good memories. Hard to
believe it was 30 years ago!
While assisting on Werner's boats I had been honing my skills in
whitewater rafting and was ready for longer and more challenging
rivers. So, I needed my weekends free. The timing was right for
transitioning from big hard boats to small soft rubber boats on big
rivers! But that is another story.
Ben
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 12:44:45 AM10/27/11
to
Joe Smuck down the street who never heard of est, etc, could come in
here and talk about privy cleaning and you would lay out the same line
of crap.
Get real!
Ben
Tex
Oct 27, 2011, 2:05:21 AM10/27/11
to
On Oct 27, 12:38 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
So what did you think of Werner?
I'm surprised you didn't meet Enric Teller, who also was part of the
Franklin House "crew."
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
I'm surprised you didn't meet Enric Teller, who also was part of the
Franklin House "crew."
computeruser
Oct 27, 2011, 5:34:27 AM10/27/11
to
On Oct 27, 12:38 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Quoting from the Canim website:
"In December, 1983 a very tired CANIM was transferred to Norton
Charters. During the next fifteen years, CANIM underwent several major
refits which were extensively photo documented. Several million
dollars were put into CANIM at various boat yards on the west coast
from California to Washington State. Norton’s restoration in 1983 was
excellent and highlighted in Wood, Water & Light and published in
Visions, the magazine of the Smithsonian. The subsequent years under
the control of Warner Erhert of EST fame were not so kind. The
original interior was gutted and replaced with a contemporary motif.
Norton again purchased CANIM in February, 1991 and chartered her until
she was sold in September, 1998 to a company controlled by Rick
Boehlke."
Early 1991 was when the 60 Minutes and other media outlets ran various
pieces on W.E.. Many other assets including W.E.&A. were sold during
this time period.
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
"In December, 1983 a very tired CANIM was transferred to Norton
Charters. During the next fifteen years, CANIM underwent several major
refits which were extensively photo documented. Several million
dollars were put into CANIM at various boat yards on the west coast
from California to Washington State. Norton’s restoration in 1983 was
excellent and highlighted in Wood, Water & Light and published in
Visions, the magazine of the Smithsonian. The subsequent years under
the control of Warner Erhert of EST fame were not so kind. The
original interior was gutted and replaced with a contemporary motif.
Norton again purchased CANIM in February, 1991 and chartered her until
she was sold in September, 1998 to a company controlled by Rick
Boehlke."
Early 1991 was when the 60 Minutes and other media outlets ran various
pieces on W.E.. Many other assets including W.E.&A. were sold during
this time period.
Caligari
Oct 27, 2011, 7:20:54 AM10/27/11
to
On Oct 26, 9:38 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Interesting, thanks for the over view of your assisting on the
boats.
As I recall from reading later after I was no longer assisting, there
was a time when Werner was no longer at the Franklin House -- it was
sold -- and living on his boat. I think that was toward the late
80's, but just in case was it when you were assisting on the boats?
-- Caligari
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 22:58:43 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
boats.
As I recall from reading later after I was no longer assisting, there
was a time when Werner was no longer at the Franklin House -- it was
sold -- and living on his boat. I think that was toward the late
80's, but just in case was it when you were assisting on the boats?
-- Caligari
Caligari
Oct 27, 2011, 7:29:13 AM10/27/11
to
1990 -- prior to the 60 minutes pieces -- and they had then moved to
the beginning of Market Street by Beale Street. They had pictures of
center staff leaders on the wall and were selling office furniture --
scaling back. Since Werner left, the business offices in San
Francisco -- and I would imagine elsewhere -- have been scaled back
considerably. I think the management that took over led by Harry
Rosenberg focused on efficiency.
-- Caligari
Ellen
Oct 27, 2011, 12:37:23 PM10/27/11
to
On Oct 27, 4:20 am, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I recall from reading later after I was no longer assisting, there
> was a time when Werner was no longer at the Franklin House -- it was
> sold -- and living on his boat. I think that was toward the late
> 80's, but just in case was it when you were assisting on the boats?
>
> -- Caligari
OMG! Just like his mentor, L.Ron Hubbard. It's uncanny. I wonder if
> As I recall from reading later after I was no longer assisting, there
> was a time when Werner was no longer at the Franklin House -- it was
> sold -- and living on his boat. I think that was toward the late
> 80's, but just in case was it when you were assisting on the boats?
>
> -- Caligari
he aspired to the big ol' tub-o-lard "Commodore" position with little
girls in sailor suits running around doing errands for him. Bet he
did!
(The beginning of Hubbard's downfall came when he had to hire a real
navigator because his scientology crew couldn't ~create~ sailing the
thing in the right direction. The outsider ended up spilling the
beans on "Captain Crunch" and his weird assembly.)
Ellen
Caligari
Oct 27, 2011, 3:49:52 PM10/27/11
to
Org equivalent.
Breakthrough Racing where Werner became a race car driver for about a
year or more as a "research project" from which the Breakthrough
Foundation, http://wernererhardfoundation.org/breakthrough.html , was
created is closer.
computeruser
Oct 27, 2011, 5:35:26 PM10/27/11
to
about Breakthrough Racing. It was called "Today Is For The
Championship"
I was going to say: It has never been digitized and released for mass
consumption. When I searched for the title, I found it has; apparently
been re-released.
http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/161376/Today-Is-For-the-Championship/overview
http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catalog/movieDetails/117532
computeruser
Oct 27, 2011, 5:44:46 PM10/27/11
to
Caligari
Oct 27, 2011, 6:16:12 PM10/27/11
to
But it doesn't look to be available online.
I saw "Today Is For The Championship" at a showing at the Franklin
House top meeting floor (where the Physical Conference was held) with
the Director, Dan E. Weisburd. It was a weird, uneven documentary
shot on video showing conflicts between people working on Werner's
racing team ending with a abstract zoom in to the last image breaking
into pixels. I talked a bit with the director after it after it
finished.
-- Caligari
Tex
Oct 27, 2011, 6:39:24 PM10/27/11
to
I like the visual.
The women did swoon around him.
He certainly had a svengali like quality about him.
The women adored him and the men were jealous.
Ben, what went on on the boat, other than spinnakers breaking?
Inquiring minds want to know. ;-)
Tex
Oct 27, 2011, 6:41:11 PM10/27/11
to
On Oct 27, 3:49 pm, Caligari <enric.me...@gmail.com> wrote:
~created~.
I saw a few clips from it. Makes me mad...... because it makes Ellen
right! :)
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 9:54:04 PM10/27/11
to
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 23:05:21 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Viewing the photo of Enric at the helm on Sirona leads me to think we
did cross paths a time or two. He looks familiar. He said that he
was at the same Franklin House assistant's picnic that I attended
on Angel Island. While the Sirona assistants were part of the
Franklin House team, I felt that we were distant cousins. I think
they had more contact with Werner than we did. I still have photos of
the picnic. One day I will gig the out an see if Enric in them. It
was a fun day.
I can't come up with a word that gives my impression of Werner.
Besides meeting him on his boats, I had heard him in a training, at
special events, in video clips and once one the radio. I don't think
he was flamboyant. I wasn't one of those perceived him as a god.
Actually he seemed pretty ordinary to me. I though of him as a man
who put together a successful business. He was a nice looking man, so
I can see that women might be attracted to him. The few interactions
I had with him were unremarkable. I am two years older than he and
have been out in the world meeting and interacting with successful
folks, military and civilian. So, I am not easily dazzled.
I am grateful that he put the est training together and happy to have
been able to crew on Sirona. It is always nice to be invited to play
on boats that I could never hope to afford!
Sailor Ben
wrote:
did cross paths a time or two. He looks familiar. He said that he
was at the same Franklin House assistant's picnic that I attended
on Angel Island. While the Sirona assistants were part of the
Franklin House team, I felt that we were distant cousins. I think
they had more contact with Werner than we did. I still have photos of
the picnic. One day I will gig the out an see if Enric in them. It
was a fun day.
I can't come up with a word that gives my impression of Werner.
Besides meeting him on his boats, I had heard him in a training, at
special events, in video clips and once one the radio. I don't think
he was flamboyant. I wasn't one of those perceived him as a god.
Actually he seemed pretty ordinary to me. I though of him as a man
who put together a successful business. He was a nice looking man, so
I can see that women might be attracted to him. The few interactions
I had with him were unremarkable. I am two years older than he and
have been out in the world meeting and interacting with successful
folks, military and civilian. So, I am not easily dazzled.
I am grateful that he put the est training together and happy to have
been able to crew on Sirona. It is always nice to be invited to play
on boats that I could never hope to afford!
Sailor Ben
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 10:02:07 PM10/27/11
to
boat. The crew couldn't go aboard to work until Werner left for the
day.
Ben
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 10:41:14 PM10/27/11
to
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Breaking spinnakers!!" You understand sailboats, Tex! I suppose you
know about hundreds of rubber bands breaking and falling the water as
the spinnaker balloons.
I will be a disappointment to you, Tex. I have no tales to tell what
inquiring minds might lust after. Sorry. The assistants did have a
confidentiality agreement to honor. In any boat, car or home where
the any owner lives, there is an expectation that those who provide
service there honor their privacy. There is nothing remarkable to
share. As I said earlier, we were distance cousins to the Franklin
House team who were around Werner more that us.
Now, I know Serena and Ellen are going to climb all over this. But,
before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
Ancient Sailor, Ben
wrote:
know about hundreds of rubber bands breaking and falling the water as
the spinnaker balloons.
I will be a disappointment to you, Tex. I have no tales to tell what
inquiring minds might lust after. Sorry. The assistants did have a
confidentiality agreement to honor. In any boat, car or home where
the any owner lives, there is an expectation that those who provide
service there honor their privacy. There is nothing remarkable to
share. As I said earlier, we were distance cousins to the Franklin
House team who were around Werner more that us.
Now, I know Serena and Ellen are going to climb all over this. But,
before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
Ancient Sailor, Ben
Ben Lewis
Oct 27, 2011, 11:02:48 PM10/27/11
to
on the boat's speed, courses (directions) and time of travel on each
course from a know point. In our case, the known point was Hong Kong.
We were lucky in that the wind held steady from one direction for all
three days of crossing of the South China Sea. Dead reckoning doesn't
account for currents and other factors that can cause errors in
determining a position. Even with celestial navigation it is
necessary to get periodic sextant shots of the sun and selected stars.
So, if it is cloudy for several days, dead reckoning is still
necessary between sights. These days, GPS solves all those problems!
We made landfall on the main island of Luzon about 45 miles north of
our intended destination, Subic Bay. Not bad for a wild-assed-guess
(WAG) with a short crew and two bottles of scotch! ;-)
And, that's the way it was .. 30 years ago!!
Lucky Sailor, Ben
Ben Lewis
Oct 28, 2011, 12:26:31 PM10/28/11
to
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
<enric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ben,
>
>You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
>interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
>like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
>change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
>agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
>Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
>interesting info?
>
> -- Caligari
Caligari,
<enric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ben,
>
>You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
>interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
>like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
>change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
>agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
>Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
>interesting info?
>
> -- Caligari
I found my photo album of the Franklin House assistants picnic at
Angel Island. I compared your web photo with all my photos, but
couldn't find you. There is one profile shot in one that could be
you. I am sure you would recognize lots of folks in them.
I was sure skinny then. And my hair wasn't gray! Sigh..
Old Ben
Caligari
Oct 28, 2011, 1:05:11 PM10/28/11
to
On Oct 28, 9:26 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
>
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
>
Can you put them up on the web or send them to me? If not, that's
fine.
Best,
Caligari
Ben Lewis
Oct 28, 2011, 7:01:59 PM10/28/11
to
I have a slide scanner attachment on my scanner that I have never
used. Will see what I can do. I would like to sent the pics to you.
I gotta ask... I see Enric is your email name and that Caligari is
your handle here. Does "Caligari" represent something special for
you? Curiosity is killing me..... the cat!
Regards, Ben
Caligari
Oct 28, 2011, 7:25:41 PM10/28/11
to
Dr. Caligari" was shown in Film History class. When I found this
Usenet newsgroup, I chose "Caligari" from the film as my nickname.
For some reason Tex choose to use my given name which I find rude
since that's not how I identify myself here. I've asked him not to do
that, but he keeps going back, so I've given up asking for his
courtesy.
-- Caligari
Tex
Oct 28, 2011, 7:14:48 PM10/28/11
to
On Oct 27, 10:41 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Aww shucks, you're no fun.
I was interested in whether he talked to y'all, who he hung around
with, did you ever meet Bucky or Alan Watts etc.
Not sure if that is a violation of any confidentialty agreement.
After all, he did get a free crew.
Cheers!
`
>
> - Show quoted text -
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
I was interested in whether he talked to y'all, who he hung around
with, did you ever meet Bucky or Alan Watts etc.
Not sure if that is a violation of any confidentialty agreement.
After all, he did get a free crew.
Cheers!
`
> Now, I know Serena and Ellen are going to climb all over this. But,
> before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>
> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>
> Ancient Sailor, Ben- Hide quoted text -
> before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>
> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ben Lewis
Oct 28, 2011, 9:05:11 PM10/28/11
to
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
One of the agreement conditions was that if you needed to miss a day,
you had to replace yourself by having someone with your skills from
one of the other seven crews take your day. So, one Sunday, I needed
to do that, and wouldn't you know, that was the Sunday that John
Denver was the guest!! I was crushed! John Denver was one of my most
favorite people. His music helped me process my way through a very
difficult period of my life. I probably wouldn't been able to
interact with him, but it would have been nice to have seen him in
person. He was Werner's guest.... not mine. I never saw the folks
you mentioned. I had heard of Bucky. I hadn't heard of Alan Watts
until recently. Even though my crew position was in the cockpit where
Werner entertained his guests, I was never privy to their
interactions. Curious....yes, privy....no.
Ben
wrote:
you had to replace yourself by having someone with your skills from
one of the other seven crews take your day. So, one Sunday, I needed
to do that, and wouldn't you know, that was the Sunday that John
Denver was the guest!! I was crushed! John Denver was one of my most
favorite people. His music helped me process my way through a very
difficult period of my life. I probably wouldn't been able to
interact with him, but it would have been nice to have seen him in
person. He was Werner's guest.... not mine. I never saw the folks
you mentioned. I had heard of Bucky. I hadn't heard of Alan Watts
until recently. Even though my crew position was in the cockpit where
Werner entertained his guests, I was never privy to their
interactions. Curious....yes, privy....no.
Ben
Tex
Oct 28, 2011, 10:30:10 PM10/28/11
to
On Oct 28, 9:05 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Thanks.
Much better than spinnaker talk.
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Much better than spinnaker talk.
Caligari
Oct 28, 2011, 10:46:28 PM10/28/11
to
On Oct 28, 6:05 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <snip>
John Denver was part of the Advisor Committee (not sure if they were
called Committee or another name) that advised Werner Erhard &
Associates. I assisted at one of those meetings and at a break I came
over to John Denver and said "Hello." I was amazed at how healthy and
vibrant he was when he replied.
I wasn't a John Denver fan -- was more into Bob Dylan, Cat Stevens,
Pink Floyd, Blondie, et. al.
;),
Caligari
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <snip>
>
> One of the agreement conditions was that if you needed to miss a day,
> you had to replace yourself by having someone with your skills from
> one of the other seven crews take your day. So, one Sunday, I needed
> to do that, and wouldn't you know, that was the Sunday that John
> Denver was the guest!! I was crushed! John Denver was one of my most
> favorite people. His music helped me process my way through a very
> difficult period of my life. I probably wouldn't been able to
> interact with him, but it would have been nice to have seen him in
> person. He was Werner's guest.... not mine. I never saw the folks
> you mentioned. I had heard of Bucky. I hadn't heard of Alan Watts
> until recently. Even though my crew position was in the cockpit where
> Werner entertained his guests, I was never privy to their
> interactions. Curious....yes, privy....no.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
<snip>
> One of the agreement conditions was that if you needed to miss a day,
> you had to replace yourself by having someone with your skills from
> one of the other seven crews take your day. So, one Sunday, I needed
> to do that, and wouldn't you know, that was the Sunday that John
> Denver was the guest!! I was crushed! John Denver was one of my most
> favorite people. His music helped me process my way through a very
> difficult period of my life. I probably wouldn't been able to
> interact with him, but it would have been nice to have seen him in
> person. He was Werner's guest.... not mine. I never saw the folks
> you mentioned. I had heard of Bucky. I hadn't heard of Alan Watts
> until recently. Even though my crew position was in the cockpit where
> Werner entertained his guests, I was never privy to their
> interactions. Curious....yes, privy....no.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
John Denver was part of the Advisor Committee (not sure if they were
called Committee or another name) that advised Werner Erhard &
Associates. I assisted at one of those meetings and at a break I came
over to John Denver and said "Hello." I was amazed at how healthy and
vibrant he was when he replied.
I wasn't a John Denver fan -- was more into Bob Dylan, Cat Stevens,
Pink Floyd, Blondie, et. al.
;),
Caligari
Ben Lewis
Oct 28, 2011, 11:01:24 PM10/28/11
to
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You don't like my spinnaker-talk! Sigh... I'm crushed ;-)
Ben
wrote:
Ben
Tex
Oct 28, 2011, 11:05:36 PM10/28/11
to
On Oct 28, 11:01 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
:-)
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:30:10 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
Ben Lewis
Oct 28, 2011, 11:05:38 PM10/28/11
to
seemed relaxed and friendly. Nice show. So sad that he died so
young.
Ben
Tex
Oct 28, 2011, 11:03:58 PM10/28/11
to
What the hell happened to Cat Stevens though?
All those wonderful, inspiring songs, and then he's suddenly "friends"
with the Ayatollah.
Much like Werner, he is enigmatic.
Loved Denver's song, "Country Road"
computeruser
Oct 29, 2011, 7:14:17 AM10/29/11
to
Ayatollah Khomeni for Rushdie's 1988 novel, The Satanic Verses, a book
many Muslims considered blasphemous."
The fact was still noteworthy and relevant last year.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/01/rushdie-wiesel-toronto.html
Religion is a plague on humanity.
“And far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws
the faithful to their knees, to hear the softly spoken magic spell.”
- Breathe - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - 1973
Tex
Oct 29, 2011, 10:14:15 AM10/29/11
to
>
> Religion is a plague on humanity.
>
> “And far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws
> the faithful to their knees, to hear the softly spoken magic spell.”
>
> - Breathe - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - 1973
>
>
One of the greatest albums EVER!!!
> Religion is a plague on humanity.
>
> “And far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws
> the faithful to their knees, to hear the softly spoken magic spell.”
>
> - Breathe - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - 1973
>
>
Of courses, in 70s, I was usually stoned while listening to it. ;)
Hey CU, you have something in common with Carl Marx. :)
Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who
has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself
again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man
is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society
produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world,
because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of
this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form,
its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its
solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and
justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence
since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The
struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle
against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious
suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real
suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh
of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the
soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The
abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the
demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their
illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a
condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is,
therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which
religion is the halo.[1]
computeruser
Oct 29, 2011, 12:09:32 PM10/29/11
to
Never mind - Go Fish!
[SNIP]
Tex
Oct 29, 2011, 1:06:29 PM10/29/11
to
anti "state" Randian Libertarian.
Makes him mad to be compared to Karl Marx. ;)
Ben Lewis
Oct 29, 2011, 2:09:06 PM10/29/11
to
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritte...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>> > Hey CU, you have something in common with Carl Marx. :)
>>
>> A stopped clock...
>>
>> Never mind - Go Fish!
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>You see Ben, CU is a staunchly anti-communist, anti-socialist, even
>anti "state" Randian Libertarian.
>Makes him mad to be compared to Karl Marx. ;)
I stay under the radar on politics. I am not an able enough debater ,
wordsmith, nor educated enough to discuss such issues effectively. As
Clint Eastwood said, "One has got to know their limitations!" ;-) I
confess to being a strong conservative and a sometimes practicing
Christian. Beyond that, I post my opinions in the ballot box. I
might even get all the way up to dropping a note to a Senator or
Congressman.
Running for cover...
Gun-shy Ben
wrote:
>> > Hey CU, you have something in common with Carl Marx. :)
>>
>> A stopped clock...
>>
>> Never mind - Go Fish!
>>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>You see Ben, CU is a staunchly anti-communist, anti-socialist, even
>anti "state" Randian Libertarian.
>Makes him mad to be compared to Karl Marx. ;)
wordsmith, nor educated enough to discuss such issues effectively. As
Clint Eastwood said, "One has got to know their limitations!" ;-) I
confess to being a strong conservative and a sometimes practicing
Christian. Beyond that, I post my opinions in the ballot box. I
might even get all the way up to dropping a note to a Senator or
Congressman.
Running for cover...
Gun-shy Ben
Caligari
Oct 29, 2011, 2:12:57 PM10/29/11
to
>
> Religion is a plague on humanity.
>
> “And far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws
> the faithful to their knees, to hear the softly spoken magic spell.”
>
> - Breathe - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - 1973
>
> <snip>
> Religion is a plague on humanity.
>
> “And far away, across the fields, the tolling of the iron bell, draws
> the faithful to their knees, to hear the softly spoken magic spell.”
>
> - Breathe - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon - 1973
>
The sociologist Durkheim who did anthropological studies of tribes
said that religion was the tribe. That religion provided exalted
ideas to hold the tribe together and have members sacrifice for the
good of the tribe. This was useful when tribes competed over scare
resources. But is destructive now that tribal warfare is unnecessary
with resources created dynamically through human intellect and
creativity. It is now a ancient, mostly destructive and unnecessary
appendage.
-- Caligari
computeruser
Oct 29, 2011, 2:41:38 PM10/29/11
to
computeruser
Oct 29, 2011, 2:48:35 PM10/29/11
to
On Oct 29, 2:09 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
how you bait people, with your tedious attempts at a reaction. You are
acting like a troll, again.
> I stay under the radar on politics. I am not an able enough debater ,
> wordsmith, nor educated enough to discuss such issues effectively. As
> Clint Eastwood said, "One has got to know their limitations!" ;-) I
> confess to being a strong conservative and a sometimes practicing
> Christian. Beyond that, I post my opinions in the ballot box. I
> might even get all the way up to dropping a note to a Senator or
> Congressman.
>
> Running for cover...
>
> Gun-shy Ben
Thanks Ben, for what you've added here lately.
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:06:29 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> > Hey CU, you have something in common with Carl Marx. :)
>
> >> A stopped clock...
>
> >> Never mind - Go Fish!
>
> >> [SNIP]
>
> >You see Ben, CU is a staunchly anti-communist, anti-socialist, even
> >anti "state" Randian Libertarian.
> >Makes him mad to be compared to Karl Marx. ;)
You are projecting again, Tex. I am not mad. Yet you have demonstrated
>
> >> > Hey CU, you have something in common with Carl Marx. :)
>
> >> A stopped clock...
>
> >> Never mind - Go Fish!
>
> >> [SNIP]
>
> >You see Ben, CU is a staunchly anti-communist, anti-socialist, even
> >anti "state" Randian Libertarian.
> >Makes him mad to be compared to Karl Marx. ;)
how you bait people, with your tedious attempts at a reaction. You are
acting like a troll, again.
> I stay under the radar on politics. I am not an able enough debater ,
> wordsmith, nor educated enough to discuss such issues effectively. As
> Clint Eastwood said, "One has got to know their limitations!" ;-) I
> confess to being a strong conservative and a sometimes practicing
> Christian. Beyond that, I post my opinions in the ballot box. I
> might even get all the way up to dropping a note to a Senator or
> Congressman.
>
> Running for cover...
>
> Gun-shy Ben
Caligari
Oct 29, 2011, 2:49:14 PM10/29/11
to
anthropology class at U.C. Berkeley. Here's a bit at
http://www.free-researchpapers.com/dbs/b11/smu287.shtml
==============
Durkheim studied the aboriginal tribes of Australia in an effort to
understand religion. He concluded that religion always involves a
distinction between things that are sacred and things that are
profane. Durkheim uses the example of the totem pole that functions to
hold the tribe together. The totemic animal, Durkheim believed, was
the original focus of religious activity because it was the emblem for
a social group, the clan. He thought that the function of religion was
to make people willing to put the interests of society ahead of their
own desires.
==============
Ben Lewis
Oct 29, 2011, 11:10:16 PM10/29/11
to
OK, I took the film strips to Fred Meyer and had them put on disc.
$7.50 for 50 pics!! Not bad at all. I viewed them on my monitor and
found you (I think) in about four shots. One was of you getting ready
to toss a horse shoe. We were all a healthy looking bunch! And
young, too
There are 50 shots, so I will see If I can prune out a few and then
email them to you in increments. Should I use your address in the
header? If not, send me a email to mine giving instructions. I could
even snail-mail a copy of the disc if you prefer. Let me know. Your
address info will be kept confidential here.
Ben
Serena Nordstrup
Oct 30, 2011, 7:26:08 AM10/30/11
to
it appropriate to quote the words and discuss the ~opinions~ of a man
once condemned to detention for drunkenness?
Sophomorically
Serena
Serena Nordstrup
Oct 30, 2011, 7:30:50 AM10/30/11
to
On Oct 28, 3:41 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
You know this how?
> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
And 30 years after the postulated event?
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 15:39:24 -0700 (PDT), Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com>
> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
Ben Lewis
Oct 31, 2011, 10:28:41 PM10/31/11
to
fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
expire when I expire.
Ben
Tex
Nov 1, 2011, 3:35:53 AM11/1/11
to
Frank Zappa wouldn't approve. ;-)
You were always trying to bait Fred and Space Boss.
stop being such a passive aggressive hypocrite.
computeruser
Nov 1, 2011, 6:08:22 AM11/1/11
to
Serena Nordstrup
Nov 1, 2011, 7:10:59 AM11/1/11
to
On Nov 1, 3:28 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:30:50 -0700 (PDT), Serena Nordstrup
>
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:30:50 -0700 (PDT), Serena Nordstrup
>
> >> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> >> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> >> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> >> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>
> >And 30 years after the postulated event?
>
> Of course!
> I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
> expire when I expire.
maintenance?
Ellen
Nov 1, 2011, 7:19:44 AM11/1/11
to
On Oct 31, 7:28 pm, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Of course! I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
> expire when I expire.
>
> Ben
What a piker.
> Of course! I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
> expire when I expire.
>
> Ben
ElRon got his mind-controlled slaves to sign "Thousand-Year
Contracts."
Ellen
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 10:01:03 AM11/1/11
to
>>
>> >You know this how?
>
>You know this how, Ben?
>
>> >> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
>> >> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
>> >> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
>> >> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>>
>> >And 30 years after the postulated event?
>>
>> Of course!
>
>immediate dismissal 30 years after... - right?
>> >You know this how?
>
>You know this how, Ben?
>
>> >> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
>> >> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
>> >> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
>> >> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>>
>> >And 30 years after the postulated event?
>>
>> Of course!
>
>
>> I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
>> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
>> expire when I expire.
>
>And does this have any bearing on my postulated paid or unpaid yard-
>maintenance?
Well, I guess in your case, nothing. Oh damn, I used that n---ing
>> I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
>> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
>> expire when I expire.
>
>And does this have any bearing on my postulated paid or unpaid yard-
>maintenance?
word again! Sorry.
>
>> Ben>> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>>
>> >> Ancient Sailor, Ben
In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>> Ben>> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>>
>> >> Ancient Sailor, Ben
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 10:04:02 AM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:01:03 -0700, Ben Lewis <benge...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>In the word (correct to reas world) I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
wrote:
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 10:08:37 AM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:04:02 -0700, Ben Lewis <benge...@yahoo.com>
Good grief!! In the world I live in......etc My fingers are still
sleeping!
sleeping!
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 10:12:58 AM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 04:19:44 -0700 (PDT), Ellen <elle...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yep, pretty dumb. few humans live that long these days! Ron arrived
on the planet thousands of years too late.
>
>Ellen
wrote:
on the planet thousands of years too late.
>
>Ellen
Ellen
Nov 1, 2011, 1:07:06 PM11/1/11
to
On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
"It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
Ellen
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 1:28:35 PM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:07:06 -0700 (PDT), Ellen <elle...@gmail.com>
wrote:
All that information has been around for a long time. I don't need an
update. So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
Ben
wrote:
update. So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
Ben
Ellen
Nov 1, 2011, 2:04:47 PM11/1/11
to
On Nov 1, 10:28 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> All that information has been around for a long time. I don't need an
> update. So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
>
> Ben
I s'pose you also heard the 70's blather about est being "a cult for
> All that information has been around for a long time. I don't need an
> update. So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
>
> Ben
assholes ('estholes')" and "scientology without the woo-woo" and
~chose~ to disregard those bits of information also.
Ellen
Ben Lewis
Nov 1, 2011, 2:41:06 PM11/1/11
to
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 11:04:47 -0700 (PDT), Ellen <elle...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Heard all that and more and worse. Gave all the bits the regard they
deserved.
Life is good.
Ben
wrote:
deserved.
Life is good.
Ben
Tex
Nov 1, 2011, 10:34:20 PM11/1/11
to
You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
Werner Erhard.
It is not.
So you are now engaging in ~creating your own reality~
So you have that in common with Erhard.
Ellen, if you keep saying it long enough to yourself I suppose you
actually start to believe it, so technically it isn't lying,
right? :-)
>
> Ellen
patrick
Nov 1, 2011, 11:58:16 PM11/1/11
to
chill.
Serena Nordstrup
Nov 2, 2011, 6:45:49 AM11/2/11
to
On Nov 2, 3:08 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:04:02 -0700, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:01:03 -0700, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com>
Ellen has done no climbing. I just asked a question.
> Your comment was predictable.
I asked a question -- I didn't make a comment.
Since when does asking a simple question equate to "climbing all over"
something?
> >>>> >You know this how?
>
> >>>You know this how, Ben?
You still haven't answered the question: How did you know that Ellen
and Serena would "climb all over" your post?
> >>>> >> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> >>>> >> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> >>>> >> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> >>>> >> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>
> >>>> >And 30 years after the postulated event?
>
> >>>> Of course!
>
> >>>immediate dismissal 30 years after... - right?
>
> >>>> I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
> >>>> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
> >>>> expire when I expire.
>
> >>>And does this have any bearing on my postulated paid or unpaid yard-
> >>>maintenance?
>
> >>Well, I guess in your case, nothing.
You mean my postulated case ... as postulated by your good self...
> Oh damn, I used that n---ing
> >>word again! Sorry.
>
> >>>> Ben>> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>
> >>>> >> Ancient Sailor, Ben
>
> >>In the word (correct to reas world) I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> Good grief!! In the world I live in......etc My fingers are still
> sleeping!
In the world (or word) you live in, do you have marketeers? Do you
have politicians?
Friendlily
Serena
> On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:04:02 -0700, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:01:03 -0700, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com>
> Your comment was predictable.
I asked a question -- I didn't make a comment.
Since when does asking a simple question equate to "climbing all over"
something?
> >>>> >You know this how?
>
> >>>You know this how, Ben?
and Serena would "climb all over" your post?
> >>>> >> But, before spouting off, they should think about what it would be like if
> >>>> >> they had a house cleaning or yard maintenance person, paid of not,
> >>>> >> divulging private information about their home, it's contents and it's
> >>>> >> occupants. Dismissal would be immediate.
>
> >>>> >And 30 years after the postulated event?
>
> >>>> Of course!
>
> >>>immediate dismissal 30 years after... - right?
>
> >>>> I have signed confidentiality agreements going back
> >>>> fifty years. None of them had expiration dates. The agreements
> >>>> expire when I expire.
>
> >>>And does this have any bearing on my postulated paid or unpaid yard-
> >>>maintenance?
>
> >>Well, I guess in your case, nothing.
> Oh damn, I used that n---ing
> >>word again! Sorry.
>
> >>>> Ben>> But they will let fly with the tildes and arrows anyway!
>
> >>>> >> Ancient Sailor, Ben
>
> >>In the word (correct to reas world) I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> Good grief!! In the world I live in......etc My fingers are still
> sleeping!
have politicians?
Friendlily
Serena
Serena Nordstrup
Nov 2, 2011, 6:52:15 AM11/2/11
to
On Nov 2, 6:28 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:07:06 -0700 (PDT), Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com>
No update, just a reminder -- in the context of keeping ~commitments~
in the word/world you live in.
> So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
Who kept which spoken or unspoken ~commitments~ in this case?
> Ben
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 10:07:06 -0700 (PDT), Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com>
in the word/world you live in.
> So, R U going to fix all that stuff? How? Then what?
> Ben
Serena Nordstrup
Nov 2, 2011, 7:09:47 AM11/2/11
to
On Nov 2, 3:34 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> Ellen,
> You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> Werner Erhard.
> It is not.
Ellen quoting Deborah Rosenberg quoting ~werner erhard~: 'He admitted
> On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> Ellen,
> You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> Werner Erhard.
> It is not.
that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing
experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Suppressed_CBS_News_60_Minutes_on_Landmark_cult_leader_Werner_Erhard,_3_Mar_1991
Memorable enough to put in quotes.
> So you are now engaging in ~creating your own reality~
> So you have that in common with Erhard.
Sophomorically
Serena
Tex
Nov 2, 2011, 11:01:23 AM11/2/11
to
Is that what you do when confronted with reality?
Take pills....chill????
We are just setting the facts straight Pat.
You better double dose today. :)
Tex
Nov 2, 2011, 11:18:16 AM11/2/11
to
On Nov 2, 7:09 am, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 3:34 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> > Ellen,
> > You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> > Werner Erhard.
> > It is not.
>
> Ellen quoting Deborah Rosenberg quoting ~werner erhard~: 'He admitted
> that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing
> experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
Correction:
> On Nov 2, 3:34 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> > Ellen,
> > You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> > Werner Erhard.
> > It is not.
>
> Ellen quoting Deborah Rosenberg quoting ~werner erhard~: 'He admitted
> that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing
> experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
Ellen was quoting Deborah Pimental who claimed Erhard said the above.
That amounts to hearsay and was not verified by anyone but Deborah.
Fast forward to New York City where Werner Erhard was receiving a
Humanitarian of the Year Award for his creation of the Youth at Risk
Program.
Deborah Erhard Pimental (she was a Rosenburg jet legally changed to
Erhard plus married name) showed up to accept the award on her
father's behalf.
You might ask yourself why she would accept a humanitarian award for a
man whom she accused of raping her sister.
http://www.laurenceplatt.com/wernererhard/thehuman.html
Claudette's loving and gratitude-filled acknowledgment of Werner was
perfect. Afterward, Werner's daughters Deborah and Anita Lynn came to
the podium and accepted the award for their father. Again there was a
resounding standing ovation.
Deborah thanked us and acknowledged us. Anita Lynn read a message from
their father in which he acknowledged all of us for our contribution
and all the young people for what they had accomplished.
Deborah came back up to the microphone during the portion where Youth
At Risk was requesting contributions. She held out her left hand and
said: "Two thousand five hundred dollars.". Then she held out her
right hand and said: "A life.". She repeated the words and moved her
hands a bit as though they were pans on a balance. Then she declared
that she was sponsoring a youth for the coming year, all of which was
very moving and enrolling. Wild applause followed her declaration.
In addition to the mentors, graduates, participants, assistants,
staff, and sponsors of Youth At Risk, many graduates, of the est
training. and The Landmark Forum were there as well. est trainer and
Landmark Forum Leader Nancy Zapolski was there, Landmark Forum Leader
Sandy Bernasik was there, Armand DiCarlo, Center Manager of the New
York City Landmark Education Center was there, Joan McNeil was there,
Tirzah and Maurice Cohen were there, and many, many, many more people
were there, all to acknowledge and honor a man who has given so much
and contributed so enormously to their lives and to Life itself.
http://www.laurenceplatt.com/wernererhard/thehuman.html
>
> http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Suppressed_CBS_News_60_Minutes_on_Landmark_...
Tex
Nov 2, 2011, 10:57:32 AM11/2/11
to
On Nov 2, 7:09 am, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> On Nov 2, 3:34 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> > Ellen,
> > You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> > Werner Erhard.
> > It is not.
>
> Ellen quoting Deborah Rosenberg quoting ~werner erhard~: 'He admitted
> that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing
> experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
Correction:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 1, 1:07 pm, Ellen <ellena...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 1, 7:01 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In the word I live in, commitments made are commitments kept.
>
> > > Gurus often take advantage of the basic honesty of people. They see
> > > it as something they can use. They see it as some sort of simpleton
> > > morality and something for "little people." They wrap themselves in
> > > secrecy because if word gets out about the nature of their dealings
> > > with others, their empires collapse, as did Werner Erhard's when a
> > > maid told reporters about his abuse of his own family. These various
> > > abuses were witnessed by many of his inner circle but they accepted
> > > Erhard's "estian" version of the facts which were examples of his
> > > doctrine of ~creating your own reality~ and twisted into things like:
> > > "It was a nurturing experience" (in reference to his having sex with
> > > one of his daughters). People like Erhard love the fact the many
> > > ~agree~ to protect them no matter what they do.
>
> > Ellen,
> > You put the above comment in quotes as thought it is a quote from
> > Werner Erhard.
> > It is not.
>
> Ellen quoting Deborah Rosenberg quoting ~werner erhard~: 'He admitted
> that there was sexual intercourse, and that it was a nurturing
> experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
Ellen was quoting Deborah Pimental who claimed she confronted her
father over over the issue. She was not ~quoting~ Erhard, as this is
nothnig but hearsay and the ~others~ involved in confronting him never
went on the record to confirm or deny her story.
Now, fast forward 12 years later and Deborah Pimental, going by the
name of Deborah Erhard Pimental, shows up to accept an award on behalf
of her father for the Youth at Risk program he created years prior.
Here is one persons account of the event.
Would you accept a humanitarian award for soemone who raped your
sister?
http://www.laurenceplatt.com/wernererhard/thehuman.html
Claudette's loving and gratitude-filled acknowledgment of Werner was
perfect. Afterward, Werner's daughters Deborah and Anita Lynn came to
the podium and accepted the award for their father. Again there was a
resounding standing ovation.
Deborah thanked us and acknowledged us. Anita Lynn read a message from
their father in which he acknowledged all of us for our contribution
and all the young people for what they had accomplished.
Deborah came back up to the microphone during the portion where Youth
At Risk was requesting contributions. She held out her left hand and
said: "Two thousand five hundred dollars.". Then she held out her
right hand and said: "A life.". She repeated the words and moved her
hands a bit as though they were pans on a balance. Then she declared
that she was sponsoring a youth for the coming year, all of which was
very moving and enrolling. Wild applause followed her declaration.
In addition to the mentors, graduates, participants, assistants,
staff, and sponsors of Youth At Risk, many graduates, of the est
training. and The Landmark Forum were there as well. est trainer and
Landmark Forum Leader Nancy Zapolski was there, Landmark Forum Leader
Sandy Bernasik was there, Armand DiCarlo, Center Manager of the New
York City Landmark Education Center was there, Joan McNeil was there,
Tirzah and Maurice Cohen were there, and many, many, many more people
were there, all to acknowledge and honor a man who has given so much
and contributed so enormously to their lives and to Life itself.
>
Serena Nordstrup
Nov 3, 2011, 4:56:16 AM11/3/11
to
as saying of the alleged rape 'that there was sexual intercourse, and
that it was a nurturing
experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Suppressed_CBS_News_60_Minutes_on_Landmark_cult_leader_Werner_Erhard,_3_Mar_1991&usg=AFQjCNHSgXfEKZDLamVOAqbhJIU4G66jrw
experience. He said that "I did not rape her."'
> That amounts to hearsay and was not verified by anyone but Deborah.
> Fast forward to New York City where Werner Erhard was receiving a
> Humanitarian of the Year Award for his creation of the Youth at Risk
> Program.
>
> Deborah Erhard Pimental (she was a Rosenburg jet legally changed to
> Erhard plus married name) showed up to accept the award on her
> father's behalf.
>
> You might ask yourself why she would accept a humanitarian award for a
> man whom she accused of raping her sister.
Deborah - a quote of a quote - does the quote turn into hearsay?
bentot
Aug 22, 2012, 8:16:43 PM8/22/12
to
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
<enric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ben,
>
>You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
>interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
>like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
>change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
>agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
>Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
>interesting info?
>
> -- Caligari
Caligari
I had a nice surprise recently. I re-established made contact with
<enric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ben,
>
>You mentioned crewing the Sirona, Exuberance and Canim. It would be
>interesting -- at least to some -- what the sailing entailed and was
>like. I only know of Werner's sailboat Sirona. When did these boats
>change? What areas of the boats did you crew? What were the
>agreements? How often would you go out to sail and where? What would
>Werner do on the boat and did you interact with him? Any other
>interesting info?
>
> -- Caligari
Caligari
one of the other members of the Sunday crew of Sirona. After 31
years! He saw this thread and sent me a email. I had been hoping to
reconnect with a crew member. I sent him the picnic pictures.
bentot
bentot
Aug 22, 2012, 8:17:58 PM8/22/12
to
Caligari
Aug 23, 2012, 3:41:49 PM8/23/12
to
On Aug 22, 5:16 pm, bentot <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
>
> On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 10:19:22 -0700 (PDT), Caligari
>
-- c
John Clingan
Mar 29, 2021, 10:42:11 PM3/29/21
to
conference back then. my latest assisting was 2014 in Singapore. Werner did a new course by phone with maybe 4 course leaders on site. how are you guys ? love n blessings
Bentot
Apr 20, 2021, 8:31:34 PM4/20/21
to
2-year agreements. It was great experience. Cal (or Calven) was the
Sunday crew chief.
Cheers!
After crewing, my lady and I started traveling to many places on the
planet. Including Singapore. 40+ countries.
Your post breaks a long silence in this group. Except for spam
Bitua Noella Nabit
Mar 21, 2022, 2:26:21 PM3/21/22
to
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