OUTRAGEOUS BETRAYAL book on Werner Erhard cited in U.S. Congress testimony
jolm
Outrageous Betrayal by Steven Pressman cited in testimony before
United States House of Representatives
United States Congress
Department of Transportation and Related Agencies Appropriations for
1996, Hearings Before a Subcommittee of the Committee on
Appropriations, House of Representatives, ISBN 0160473527 , Page
834-835, 104th Congress, 1st Session, 1995.
Testimony before United States House of Representatives, citing book
Outrageous Betrayal, 1993, by Steven Pressman for formal information
on Werner Erhard, Erhard Seminars Training, Werner Erhard and
Associates, and Landmark Education.
Mr. WOLF. Would you describe the "New Age" and the "human potential"
movements, and tell us Mr. May's link to these types of
organizations?
[The information follows:]
Our investigation disclosed that the human potential movement is dated
to the early 1970s and is part of a cultural movement which began in
California during that time period. More recently, the human potential
movement has been closely identified with the New Age Movement and is
actually considered a part of the New Age Movement. This finding is a
based on a book titled The Aquarian Conspiracy, by Marilyn Ferguson,
published in 1980. This book is said to be the "Bible of the New Age."
The FAA Executive School listed htis publication as part of its
library.
The Aquarian Conspiracy identifies various "psycho technologies" which
are techniques and methods used in the New Age Movement to take
individuals thorugh four stages of "transformation," and open the
individual up to greater consciousness and a new way of thinking. One
of hte categories of psycho technologies listed in the book include
seminars conducted by human potential organizations. The book
specifically references "EST."
Our investigation disclosed that Gregory May and GMA have been
affiliated with certain New Age and human potential organizations
including the Ramtha School of Enlightenment and "EST." Also, a member
of GMA's Board of Directors is referenced in a book about the founder
of "EST." The book is entitled, Outrageous Betrayal by Steve Pressman,
published in 1993. The book describes this GMA Board member as an
early student of the Church of Scientology, another organization which
is commonly referred to as part of the human potential movement.
Mr. WOLF. Would you describe "EST" and tell us Gregory May's
association with it?
[The information follows.]
EST refers to "Erhard Seminar Training," and was founded by Werner
Erhard. EST has gone through various corporate identities and the
training is now conducted by an organization known as Landmark
Education. The EST organization conducted seminars for individuals and
also developed corporate training, first through Werner Erhard and
Associates and later through a company known as Transformational
Technologies. The individual training is now referred to as The Forum.
EST seminars have been widely publicized in the media. Our
investigation did not include an in depth examination of EST beyond
media reports. We consulted with a New Age Training consultant,
however, who was himself an EST graduate. This expert conducted an
analysis which drew several parallels between GMA and EST training.
Mr. WOLF. Did Mr. May and his associates employ EST techniques or
impart EST principles during the training of FAA employees?
[The information follows:]
A distinguishing feature of GMA training was the use of confrontation
by GMA instructors, principally Gregory May, for the ostensible
purpose of changing behavior. This was a hallmark technique of EST.
The popular literature about the human potential movement also
references certain fundamental principles of that movement which were
also found in GMA's training for the FAA. One such principle for
example making and keeping "commitments," was emphasized in GMA
training. As a result, GMA established rules at the beginning f each
class and required strict adherence to those rules. Certain witnesses
told the OIG that they had confrontations with Gregory May over
refusing to make or keep certain commitments. At the end of GMA's
training session, he formed "commitment groups" from those in
attendance which were supposed to meet on a regular basis to monitor
the participants' progress in making and keeping commitments. These
types of groups are a staple of the human potential movement. Our
investigation disclosed that FAA conference rooms were used by
graduates of GMA's private courses for commitment group meetings. For
instance, the former Deputy Assistant Administrator for Human Resource
Management used her office conference room for such purposes.
Mr. WOLF. For some reason, Mr. May chose Virginia Beach, Virginia as a
site for a disproportionate amount of his training. Do you have any
idea why Virginia Beach was chosen?
[The information follows:]
The FAA employee who formerly coordinated Executive School logistics
on behalf of the Executive School manager told the OIG that she
personally selected Virginia Beach, based on a number of factors
including its proximity to major airports, being within driving
distance of Washington, DC, and the hotel facilities. She claimed to
have selected the specific hotel for the following reasons: It was a
quiet place for reflection located on the Chesapeake Bay, as opposed
to being located on the ocean beaches; it had a health facility and
offered a healthy menu; the rooms had microwave ovens; and the price
was good.
Prior to moving to Virginia Beach in 1987, GMA's Executive School
courses had been conducted in Williamsburg, Virginia. Complaints about
the Williamsburg hotel facilities led this employee to explore an
alternate site. This employee, who was from Virginia Beach, attended a
weekend "Women's Cource" conducted by Gregory May in 1990 under a
special tuition payment plan offered to her by GMA because at the time
she could not afford the course. This employee also told the OIG that
she and Gregory May discussed their mutual interest in the
supernatural outside of class at Executive School. She and Gregory May
had discussed Ramtha, ghosts, and the late psychic Edgar Cayce. She
recalled that Gregory May mentioned the Edgar Cayce Foundation,
located in Virginia Beach, to some Executive School classes as being
an interesting place to visit.
DESCRIPTION OF THE TRAINING
Mr. WOLF. Much so-called "New Age" training is considered progressive
in nature, meaning that one course leads to another in a sequence. To
reach a higher and higher state of awareness, one must continue taking
courses. Among other things, this can have the effect of tying the
customer to a particular trainer for a sustained period of time. Did
you see elements of this in the FAA management training provided by
Gregory May?
[The information follows:]
Our investigation disclosed that GMA training for the FAA and also the
Department took on a progressive character. GMA was first used to
provide a small segment of the Executive School curriculum beginning
in 1984. Eventually, GMA was asked to provide training for the entire
two-week Executive School. Subsequently, the FAA hired GMA to conduct
a follow-on course called Executive School II. The FAA and GMA also
developed an Executive School III which was delivered by GMA on a
trial basis. An Executive School Update was developed for FAA
Executives who had attended Executive School before GMA became the
contractor. The investigation also disclosed a course delivered on at
least three occasions called Introduction to Executive School.
The FAA also hired GMA to deliver a course called Leadership Vision
for the FAA. This was also delivered as Leadership Vision I and then a
few months later GMA delivered Leadership Vision II to the graduates
of Leadership Vision I.
In a May 1992 memorandum to the FAA Human Resource Headquarters, one
FAA manager remarked that in comparing notes with his staff about the
various GMA training classes, that they were all "starting to sound
the same."
We also spoke to a number of witnesses who commented on teh
relationship between Gregory May and the FAA Human Resources staff.
One witness stated that Gregory May was considered "god," and another
stated that Gregory May was viewed as the "second coming of Christ"
within Human Resources.
Mr. WOLF. Mr. May's training style was described by virtually all
participants as "confrontational." In fact, he described it as such in
bid proposals. His techniques included shouting and picking out
certain individuals to make an example of them.
Fair use excerpts of the book online:
Enlightenment in Two Weekends - The est Training
http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/pressmn1.htm
A Door to Door Mind Salesman
http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/door2.html
below are some informative web sites
Scientology and Werner Erhard, Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_Werner_Erhard
Werner Erhard Flees in the Wake of Tax Liens and Child Abuse
Allegations
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0140a.html
More Allegations Against est Founder
http://rickross.com/reference/forum/forum2.html
Est Founder sues critics
http://www.skepticfiles.org/rumor/law-suit.htm
EST, Werner Erhard (Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of
Destructive Cults)
http://www.rickross.com/groups/est.html
Comedian Mark Day is a cult hit
http://lgattruth.blogspot.com/2007/09/comedian-mark-day-is-cult-hit.html
Scribd index page of related documents:
http://www.scribd.com/people/view/84205-frederick-bismark
Scribd page on Landmark Education litigation
http://www.scribd.com/groups/view/1102-landmark-education-litigation
http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html
http://skepdic.com/landmark.html
http://www.metroactive.com/landmark/landmark1-9827.html
http://w3.cultnews.com/?cat=81
http://w3.cultnews.com/?p=2124
http://www.memecentral.com/mu/mu0022.htm
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/l30.html
http://www.cultsoncampus.com/landmark.html
http://www.xs4all.nl/~anco/mental/randr/main.htm
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/landmark/
http://www.xenu.net
bruno Tonon
Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who cares,
and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed. Be
someone who comforts, and you will know peace.
Be someone who genuinely seeks to understand, and you will be wise. Be
someone kind, someone considerate, and you will be admired. Be someone
who values truth, and you will be respected. Be someone who takes
action, and you will move life forward.
Be someone who lifts others higher, and your life will be rich. Be someone
filled with gratitude, and there will be no end to the things for which
you'll be thankful.
Be someone who lives with joy, with purpose, as your own light brightly
shines. Be, in every moment, the special someone you are truly meant to
be.
-- Ralph Marston
The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
Are they too hard to practise????
cheers bruno
"jolm" <jol...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190782841....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
HAPPYsamurai
> The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
>
> Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
>
> Are they too hard to practise????
>
perhaps you would like to practise them and listen this
if you find out your best friends wife is having an affair and you
choose to tell him
does that mean you think all woman are bad?
no - it means you understand that despite all the positicve feelings
towards woman in the world created by the good behaviour of all the
good woman out there - that there are "some" woman out there who take
advantage of this...
this is foundation one in the anti cult argument
that tho there are good things in the world - there are some people
who WILL take advantage of this to the degree of causing harm to
others
untill you understand this foundation - and is it that haard to
practise ?
have you LISTENED
do you CARE that people are harmed
are you willing to GIVE jolm the benefit of trying to GENUINELY
UNDERSTAND him and be BLESSED by that action
are you willing to COMFORT jolm by reassuring him that his desire to
prevent others from harm is not wasted
Do you value the TRUTH in jolms words or seek to undermine them
can you LIVE by these ETHICS you have presented
do you even UNDERSTAND that you have just presented a set of ETHICS
awaiting the BESSINGS of your UNDERSTANDING
bruno Tonon
"HAPPYsamurai" <profst...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1190845466.2...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On 26 Sep, 17:32, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
>>
>> Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
>>
>> Are they too hard to practise????
>>
>
> perhaps you would like to practise them and listen this
>
>
> if you find out your best friends wife is having an affair and you
> choose to tell him
>
> does that mean you think all woman are bad?
>
>
> no - it means you understand that despite all the positicve feelings
> towards woman in the world created by the good behaviour of all the
> good woman out there - that there are "some" woman out there who take
> advantage of this...
>
> this is foundation one in the anti cult argument
>
> that tho there are good things in the world - there are some people
> who WILL take advantage of this to the degree of causing harm to
> others
>
>
> untill you understand this foundation - and is it that haard to
> practise ?
>
> have you LISTENED
>
> do you CARE that people are harmed
>
> are you willing to GIVE jolm the benefit of trying to GENUINELY
> UNDERSTAND him and be BLESSED by that action
There are arseoles in every organisation however Jolm isn't concerned
with that all I hear is hate propaganda against any human potential group.
>
> are you willing to COMFORT jolm by reassuring him that his desire to
> prevent others from harm is not wasted
What harm Happ.? I don't recall Jolm stating any reason or that nayone
has been harmed. He just popped up inot the group and started to spread
hate
propoganda.
>
> Do you value the TRUTH in jolms words or seek to undermine them
Spell it out for me what is his truth??? I must say that presently I
haven't
grasped it.
>
> can you LIVE by these ETHICS you have presented
I try but I know I'm a mere mortal and often falter.
>
> do you even UNDERSTAND that you have just presented a set of ETHICS
Yes and I am suspicious that that beautiful poem has disappeared from the
Email/. I thought they were powerful words yet others don't think them that
relelvant.
>
>
> awaiting the BESSINGS of your UNDERSTANDING
I'm trying Happ. It may help if you come out behind that Rock you are
hiding
behind, and also if you can stop hanging around with those bullies.
Just a thought
cheers Bruno
>
Serena Nordstrup
> Be Someone
>
> Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who cares,
> and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed. Be
> someone who comforts, and you will know peace.
>
> Be someone who genuinely seeks to understand, and you will be wise. Be
> someone kind, someone considerate, and you will be admired. Be someone
> who values truth, and you will be respected. Be someone who takes
> action, and you will move life forward.
>
> Be someone who lifts others higher, and your life will be rich. Be someone
> filled with gratitude, and there will be no end to the things for which
> you'll be thankful.
>
> Be someone who lives with joy, with purpose, as your own light brightly
> shines. Be, in every moment, the special someone you are truly meant to
> be.
>
> -- Ralph Marston
>
> The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
>
> Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
>
> Are they too hard to practise????
The sort of crude non-thinking and illogical non-sequiturs and and
repulsive jargon and execrable form of the drivel you ascribe to
Marston makes me want to vomit. Practising the "sentiments" won't get
a look-in.
Slimily
Serena
Tex
"Serena Nordstrup" <s_nor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1190894333.8...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
May a suggest Sartre for you then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausea_(novel)
>
> Slimily
> Serena
>
Serena Nordstrup
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Thanks: a suitable nostrum against the relentless cycle of command and
promise.
> > Slimily
> > Serena
bruno Tonon
"Serena Nordstrup" <s_nor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1190894333.8...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Gosh Serena,
I didn"t know that you have a stomach problem.
Sorry to hear you want to vomit so much??
It must be painful for you.
Have you tried Charcoal tablets or some Vit C.
It may help your flatulance problem also
Sine experientia + somorphorically
Bruno
>
> Slimily
> Serena
>
Eldon
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Hey Bruno,
What if another former Scientologist reveals the secret that you are
infested with little "entities" throughout your body that mess up your
liver and gall bladderr and so forth. What if Harry Palmer says you
may exorcise these demons and heal anything that ails you for $7,500
(well, plus a few thousand more for prerequisite courses).
You'd surely pay that right? Tex will surely sign up to heal his
father's cancer, right?
Come on guyz, fork over the money. That's what it's all about.
bruno Tonon
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1190989656....@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
That may be the case Eldon. I don't know as I was allways on the
other side paying small amounts and listening.
You on the other hand , as I understand it ,was on the stage leading the
groups so you may have experienced the " come on fork the money
over"
I doubt whether the Forum leaders I had met had that mentality. I think
they belived most of the stuff although some of them at some stage
decided to hang their gloves up.
If what you say is true Eldon , what did it feel like when you were
delivering???? What went through your mind???
I've often wondered what priests must feel when administering the
last rites or at funerals???
Is it all a sham for them or do they still have some faith in their
Religion????
Pretty hard job to deliver if to don\t have some belief that you
are not ripping people off??????
cheers Bruno
Tex
"bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:46ff2c13$0$844$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
What went through Eldon's mind?????
My guess, "Oh look, everyone's looking at me."
Typical of narcissists of his ilk.
He liked the course so much he plagiarized it.
Then he got his ass sued and lost.
Now this pathetic loser spends his time making up things about people on the
internet.
I think he may simply be insane.
Geriatric cognitive disorder perhaps.
http://members.aol.com/SourceCourse/index0.htm
http://members.aol.com/SourceCourse/faq.htm
What is this course about?
The topic is consciousness exploration. The goal is to assist you in taking
a look at how your beliefs and attitudes affect your perception of everyday
reality. This is an interactive workbook with many exercises and techniques
to examine and expand your mind.
What can I expect?
Hopefully, you can expect enlightenment, bliss, peace of mind, Nirvana and a
far better way of life. Whether you get them depends on your own belief
system. According to the premise of the course, your own hidden
(subconscious) attitudes could be getting in the way of your aspirations.
The techniques presented will help you examine, dissolve and replace beliefs
that hinder you.
Is it psychological, philosophical, metaphysical, religious or what?
It discusses all of the above, but it doesn't follow or promote any
particular school of thought. Hopefully it won't offend anyone's
sensibilities. It is an experiential course, with mental exercises and
processes designed to assist you in clarifying your own perceptions and
ideas.
Can I do it on my own?
Hopefully you can. Try it and see. It would be more fun with a partner or a
small group, though. If you are new to "clearing" or "transformational"
work, a professional guide or trainer would be helpful. If you suffer from
depression or deep-seated emotional problems, I recommend professional
delivery.
How long does it take?
On average, I would guess 40-50 hours of work. However, this will vary. You
may want to run through it quickly the first time, then come back and dig
deeper on the second pass.
How can I do it with a group or trainer?
At this time, there is no referral network. I suggest you post on the
alt.clearing.avatar newsgroup for now. In the future, I will be glad to list
trainers who offer the course, but won't endorse or recommend anyone.
What do people say about it?
So far, the generous souls who have reviewed it and made suggestions have
called it "excellent." One remarked that the style was down-to-earth and
folksy. When I receive more comments, I will post them on this site.
Who wrote it?
Eldon M. Braun, a former Adman, dilettante Scientologist, and Avatar Master.
More recently, I have pursued a career as author and publisher of self-help
books and materials. I'm the co-author of the best-selling book on learning
disability, The Gift of Dyslexia by Ronald D. Davis.
>
> cheers Bruno
>
>
>
>>>
>>> Sine experientia + somorphorica
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Slimily
>>> > Serena
>>
>>
>
>
Serena Nordstrup
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Good old Bruno -- goes straight for the materialist solution.
> Sorry to hear you want to vomit so much??
> It must be painful for you.
Very. But you can help!
> Have you tried Charcoal tablets or some Vit C.
> It may help your flatulance problem also
No, I haven't tried those nostrums. But thanks for the free personal
cyber-diagnosis! -- it seems to imply that you consider me human...
Slipperily
Serena
Meaganasfr...@gmail.com
>
> A Door to Door Mind Salesmanhttp://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/door2.html
>
> below are some informative web sites
>
> Werner Erhard Flees in the Wake of Tax Liens and Child Abuse
> EST, Werner Erhard (Rick A. Ross Institute for the Study of
> Comedian Mark Day is a cult hithttp://lgattruth.blogspot.com/2007/09/comedian-mark-day-is-cult-hit.html> Scribd page on Landmark Education litigationhttp://www.scribd.com/groups/view/1102-landmark-education-litigationhttp://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.htmlhttp://skepdic.com/landmark.htmlhttp://www.metroactive.com/landmark/landmark1-9827.htmlhttp://w3.cultnews.com/?cat=81http://w3.cultnews.com/?p=2124http://www.memecentral.com/mu/mu0022.htmhttp://www.apologeticsindex.org/l30.htmlhttp://www.cultsoncampus.com/landmark.html...
>
> read more »
Meagan Anne Dillon
Williams Stead
#311-34 Blood Alley square
Vancouver British Columbia Canada
Interesting do you ever pay people to write or read or anything at
all that might help me I am an abused child thats 30 I was beaten in
the haed with aclosed fist everyday as wella s confined to my room
extremley I read 80 books I was told that I was hated I was told that
I was actually wished dead as well that they wished that i was never
born they wouldnt let me leave my house at all its crazy the real raw
truth is that I wish for a family that will love me all the tiem I
think that Oprah Winfrey would be perfect for em I wish that I could
phone her right know But I wish I could have a reaL MOMMY TO LOVE EM
AND A DADDY TO DO THE SAME AS WELLA S PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITIES LIKE
ID AND THINGS
Meaganasfr...@gmail.com
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
SO AS ALL THOSE SOMEONES im still broke worse then brpke on welfare
system allowed only three pieces of id so they know fully that i wont
be getting off welfare evedr for any job you need at least 20 i need
40 to work at x box i wish for em greatness but seek only the
happiness of the world around me i fall heavy with pain but rise weak
from anger treating honesty like awelcome drug i prevent heartbreak
for thy self at least forgiveneess is determined as is eeek the mirror
i find only few.Reasons to behave are few and far between dads best
friend his second born daughter girls best friend her jewels if only
one or two books one written one bought buy auntie reading undercover
lovers lost in denial of the loev of a daughter forever is the raw
truth of the sacred marriage vow broken mothers taught not to cry die
only to lie real life valuable t9o none really truly broke and useless
once again strikes again my life is mentor free moments spoken the
truth is gone
Meaganasfr...@gmail.com
> In article <46f9f07d$0$12802$afc38...@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Be Someone
>
> > Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who cares,
> > and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed. Be
> > someone who comforts, and you will know peace.
>
> > Be someone who genuinely seeks to understand, and you will be wise. Be
> > someone kind, someone considerate, and you will be admired. Be someone
> > who values truth, and you will be respected. Be someone who takes
> > action, and you will move life forward.
>
> > Be someone who lifts others higher, and your life will be rich. Be someone
> > filled with gratitude, and there will be no end to the things for which
> > you'll be thankful.
>
> > Be someone who lives with joy, with purpose, as your own light brightly
> > shines. Be, in every moment, the special someone you are truly meant to
> > be.
>
> > -- Ralph Marston
>
> > The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
>
> > Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
>
> > Are they too hard to practise????
>
> > cheers bruno
>
> the mindfuck.
>
> Or perhaps it is just that some people are incapable of seeing the value
> of that beyond the simplest.
>
> alex- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Tex
<Meaganasfr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191173312.3...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>......
Sorry to hear of your troubles Meagan.
Try this book.
Good luck.
http://www.7most.com/
bruno Tonon
Serena today I met a lady I have known for over 52 years. She is getting old
and dying and her sons and daughters have not visited her for the past 20+
years. One of her covert wishes would be to see her children and grand
children
before she either goes into a home or dies.
One of the excercises in Forum was to get in touch with your loved ones and
to
forgive and forget and get on with your life.
It was so simple and it happened for people over and over again.( I do
agree that
LEC'S intention for this excercise may be to recruit, however I still think
its worthy.)
If you think an excercise like this is not important then in my mind your
are either
immature or a non sentient being .
My wife exclaimed you were a "venomous snake" after your reply to the
Marston
poem. ( Without any prompting from me> I just showed her your reply above)
I still have a soft spot for you, and since you are local have offered in
the past
to buy you a drink at the Hyatt, just after your auditing session at the
local
Scientology org around the corner.
So yes I do think you are human but I'm not sure what kind????
onwards and upwards
somophorically and simpatice
An admirer
cheers
>
> Slipperily
> Serena
>
Serena Nordstrup
How covert? Why covert?
> One of the excercises in Forum was to get in touch with your loved ones and
> to
> forgive and forget and get on with your life.
> It was so simple and it happened for people over and over again.( I do
> agree that
> LEC'S intention for this excercise may be to recruit, however I still think
> its worthy.)
Ask yourself: what does this sort of ~exercise~ assume?
Ask yourself furthermore: can you interpret the so-called ~landmark~
so-called ~forum~ as a social service agency?
> If you think an excercise like this is not important then in my mind your
> are either
> immature or a non sentient being .
Immaturity sounds attractive and fresh and young and vigorous.
> My wife exclaimed you were a "venomous snake" after your reply to the
> Marston
> poem. ( Without any prompting from me> I just showed her your reply above)
My best regards to your esteemed wife. Do you have a lot of
~experience~ with "venomous snakes" ?
> I still have a soft spot for you, and since you are local have offered in
> the past
> to buy you a drink at the Hyatt, just after your auditing session at the
> local
> Scientology org around the corner.
>
> So yes I do think you are human but I'm not sure what kind????
It often seems like a mystery, this humanity-stuff.
HAPPYsamurai
>
> It often seems like a mystery, this humanity-stuff.
>
i like eistiens one
i'm not sure with what weapons ww3 will be fought
but i am certain that ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones
i wonder if he rang his father and "shared" the "insight"
may all your transformations be in a manner that you would happily
settle for
Serena Nordstrup
> On 3 Oct, 19:02, Serena Nordstrup <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > It often seems like a mystery, this humanity-stuff.
>
> there's certain predictables
>
> i like eistiens one
>
> i'm not sure with what weapons ww3 will be fought
> but i am certain that ww4 will be fought with sticks and stones
>
> i wonder if he rang his father and "shared" the "insight"
And that makes me wonder whether LGATs could have taken off in the
days before anonymous cities and instant telecommunications.
> may all your transformations be in a manner that you would happily
> settle for
... or not notice.
Simpatice
Serena
bruno Tonon
She's as stubborn as a mule and cannot let go of some stupid remarks ,
feeling s of the past.
>
>> One of the excercises in Forum was to get in touch with your loved ones
>> and
>> to
>> forgive and forget and get on with your life.
>> It was so simple and it happened for people over and over again.( I do
>> agree that
>> LEC'S intention for this excercise may be to recruit, however I still
>> think
>> its worthy.)
>
> Ask yourself: what does this sort of ~exercise~ assume?
>
> Ask yourself furthermore: can you interpret the so-called ~landmark~
> so-called ~forum~ as a social service agency?
>
>> If you think an excercise like this is not important then in my mind
>> your
>> are either
>> immature or a non sentient being .
>
> Immaturity sounds attractive and fresh and young and vigorous.
>
>> My wife exclaimed you were a "venomous snake" after your reply to the
>> Marston
>> poem. ( Without any prompting from me> I just showed her your reply
>> above)
>
> My best regards to your esteemed wife. Do you have a lot of
> ~experience~ with "venomous snakes" ?
I don't Serena but I have confronted venomous snakes on about 6
occasions in my life. As long as you don't trample on them they usually
scurry away.
A Tiger snake once balked and decided to stay its ground and ofcourse I
then gave away as I didn't really want to kill it. They are lovely creatures
in their
own habitat. A maligned and misunderstood creature.
My wife is presently on the Sunshine coast staying with a girlfriend. Maybe
you
can go around to meet her, for a cup of British tea????
I could persuade her to meet you???
She has an excellent book by Dr. DeBono written in 1986 called "Conflicts"
and there are passages in the book that describe you to a tee.
I don't have the book at the moment, but when I do I will present
DeBonos thoughts for your perusal.
Interesting De Bono with his Lateral thinking and "Po" is very similar
to Werners Possibility concepts.
De Bono explains it in a more simple and common sense way.
The book a paperback was in the Library and was being thrown out
because not too many people had borrowed it.
Its a gem.
onwards and upwards
somophorically and simpatice
cheers
HAPPYsamurai
forgiveness
breath in
breath out
On 27 Sep, 16:23, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> What harm Happ.? I don't recall Jolm stating any reason or that nayone
> has been harmed. He just popped up inot the group and started to spread
> hate
> propoganda.
>
>
"Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who
cares,
and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed.
Be
someone who comforts, and you will know peace. "
care to ask jolm rather than resort to calling him a propaganda-ist
>
> > Do you value the TRUTH in jolms words or seek to undermine them
>
> Spell it out for me what is his truth??? I must say that presently I
> haven't
> grasped it.
>
>
"Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who cares,
and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed.
Be
someone who comforts, and you will know peace. "
care to ask him and listen to him and understand him
>
> > can you LIVE by these ETHICS you have presented
>
> I try but I know I'm a mere mortal and often falter.
>
>
but you said
"The above poem came from the Human potential movement Jolm.
Cannot understand why you hate the above sentiments.
Are they too hard to practise???? "
you said - are they too hard to practise
you said - are they too hard to practise - yet you excuse yourself for
not practising them but ask others to
is this the LEADERSHIP that werner talks about?
berating your follower while you often falter
[there is no teaching without values - ie the student imbibes the
values of the teacher]
>
> > do you even UNDERSTAND that you have just presented a set of ETHICS
>
> Yes and I am suspicious that that beautiful poem has disappeared from the
> Email/. I thought they were powerful words yet others don't think them that
> relelvant.
>
>
you don't think they are relevent enough to uphold yourself
is this what werner taught you about experiential learning ?
>
> > awaiting the BESSINGS of your UNDERSTANDING
>
> I'm trying Happ. It may help if you come out behind that Rock you are
> hiding
> behind,
so your understanding is dependent on me meeting a requirement of
yours ?
is this werners rationale ?
did he teach you that ?
that your behaviour is dependent on others
that you taking responsibility for your own understanding is based on
the behaviour of others
is this the version of responsibility that werner teaches?
>and also if you can stop hanging around with those bullies.
careful Bruno I think Tex is gonna cry
sticks and stones bruno
these are just words on a screen
and here's your lovely poem again
Be Someone
Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who cares,
and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed.
Be
someone who comforts, and you will know peace.
Be someone who genuinely seeks to understand, and you will be wise.
Be
someone kind, someone considerate, and you will be admired. Be
someone
who values truth, and you will be respected. Be someone who takes
action, and you will move life forward.
Be someone who lifts others higher, and your life will be rich. Be
someone
filled with gratitude, and there will be no end to the things for
which
you'll be thankful.
Be someone who lives with joy, with purpose, as your own light
brightly
shines. Be, in every moment, the special someone you are truly meant
to
be.
-- Ralph Marston
now let me leave you with the difference between sentiment and
sentimentality
sentiment is driving and swerving so you miss the cat in the road
sentimentality is swerving to miss the cat and killing 3 pedestrians
and as for "bullies" - wasn't it you saying they just needed love and
forgiveness
i don't mean to sound like i'm pickin on you bruno - you come a cross
as a keen man
but if you can't walk your talk why is anyone else gonna walk your
talk for you?
didn't werner teach you this?
did you pay good money to learn all these things in the poem from
werner
yet all you seem to do is ask others to live them
what was MISSING in LM that left you unable to live these ideals
do you find them to be practical in the "real" world
do you find it hard that who ever dropped the twin towers didn't live
by love and forgiveness - do you find GWs response lacking in love and
forgiveness
do you find the war torn world we now live in harder on your senses
than Serena's apparent "bully"ishness
how do you create integrity and wholeness of being when you have such
high ideals in a world that mocks their very existence
did werner really make you whole?
it is what you are hiding that will help you
if you want to "share" remember - this is the internet - if you think
this "group" is a little bullyish - check alt.baldspot
HAPPYsamurai
>
> Have you tried Charcoal tablets or some Vit C.
> It may help your flatulance problem also
>
> Sine experientia + somorphorically
>
> Bruno
>
you won me over with your compassion here bruno
you accuse serena of being a snake and a bully - yet you offer her
health advice
]just like how werner got his followers to massage each other-- oops]
HAPPYsamurai
group of forgiving and loving people
of course this will be hard for those of you who grew up in the cold
war with 007 and max smart
loose lips un all
heavy conditioning -
Hephaestus
the frames change but the pictures remain the same.
HAPPYsamurai
same shit different day ?
Tex
> please take a moment to focus on the ubiquitous power of love and
> forgiveness
>
> breath in
>
> breath out
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27 Sep, 16:23, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>>
>> What harm Happ.? I don't recall Jolm stating any reason or that nayone
>> has been harmed. He just popped up inot the group and started to spread
>> hate
>> propoganda.
>>
>>
>
>
> "Be someone who listens, and you will be heard. Be someone who
> cares,
> and you will be loved. Be someone who gives, and you will be blessed.
> Be
> someone who comforts, and you will know peace. "
>
> care to ask jolm rather than resort to calling him a propaganda-ist
>
I think he's a bot.
Tex
> anybody here like to "share" their "covert" wishes with this lovely
> group of forgiving and loving people
I forgive you Hap.
Feel the love?
Hephaestus
wherever you go, their you are.
but your luggage is in Oregon.
Serena Nordstrup
> >> children
> >> before she either goes into a home or dies.
>
> > How covert? Why covert?
>
> She's as stubborn as a mule and cannot let go of some stupid remarks ,
> feeling s of the past.
What does stubbornness have to do with covert wishes?
> >> One of the excercises in Forum was to get in touch with your loved ones
> >> and
> >> to
> >> forgive and forget and get on with your life.
> >> It was so simple and it happened for people over and over again.( I do
> >> agree that
> >> LEC'S intention for this excercise may be to recruit, however I still
> >> think
> >> its worthy.)
>
> > Ask yourself: what does this sort of ~exercise~ assume?
Well Bruno: what does this sort of ~exercise~ assume?
> > Ask yourself furthermore: can you interpret the so-called ~landmark~
> > so-called ~forum~ as a social service agency?
Furthermore, Bruno, can you interpret the so-called ~landmark~
so-called ~forum~ as a social service agency?
> >> If you think an excercise like this is not important then in my mind
> >> your
> >> are either
> >> immature or a non sentient being .
>
> > Immaturity sounds attractive and fresh and young and vigorous.
>
> >> My wife exclaimed you were a "venomous snake" after your reply to the
> >> Marston
> >> poem. ( Without any prompting from me> I just showed her your reply
> >> above)
>
> > My best regards to your esteemed wife. Do you have a lot of
> > ~experience~ with "venomous snakes" ?
>
> I don't Serena but I have confronted venomous snakes on about 6
> occasions in my life.
Ah, the contrast (or should I say ~distinction~) between ~experience~
and knowledge and between ~experience~ and labeling...
> As long as you don't trample on them they usually
> scurry away.
> A Tiger snake once balked and decided to stay its ground and ofcourse I
> then gave away as I didn't really want to kill it. They are lovely creatures
> in their
> own habitat.
And ugly beasts out of their own habitat?
> A maligned and misunderstood creature.
>
> My wife is presently on the Sunshine coast staying with a girlfriend. Maybe
> you
> can go around to meet her, for a cup of British tea????
> I could persuade her to meet you???
>
> She has an excellent book by Dr. DeBono written in 1986 called "Conflicts"
> and there are passages in the book that describe you to a tee.
> I don't have the book at the moment, but when I do I will present
> DeBonos thoughts for your perusal.
> Interesting De Bono with his Lateral thinking and "Po" is very similar
> to Werners Possibility concepts.
>
> De Bono explains it in a more simple and common sense way.
>
> The book a paperback was in the Library and was being thrown out
> because not too many people had borrowed it.
>
> Its a gem.
Dr DeBono must have encountered me in one of my former incarnations.
Perhaps that explains the lack of his popular appeal amongst the
patrons of the library in question.
HAPPYsamurai
> "HAPPYsamurai" <profstock...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1191907806.9...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> > anybody here like to "share" their "covert" wishes with this lovely
> > group of forgiving and loving people
>
> I forgive you Hap.
> Feel the love?
>
bruno Tonon
Hey Happ,
Don't worry about me. Tex and I get along even if we disagree at times.
At least I know why I am disagreeing and thats helpful.
Unfortunately with you or S most of the time I can't understand what the
hell
you are trying to say???
Keep it simple man
>
Serena Nordstrup
> "HAPPYsamurai" <profstock...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:1192487934.2...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On 10 Oct, 02:54, "Tex" <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "HAPPYsamurai" <profstock...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1191907806.9...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > anybody here like to "share" their "covert" wishes with this lovely
> >> > group of forgiving and loving people
>
> >> I forgive you Hap.
> >> Feel the love?
>
> > now aim it at bruno
>
> Hey Happ,
>
> Don't worry about me. Tex and I get along even if we disagree at times.
> At least I know why I am disagreeing and thats helpful.
>
> Unfortunately with you or S most of the time I can't understand what the
> hell
> you are trying to say???
If you really want the so-called booby-prize of understanding, grab a
dictionary.
If not, just ~experience~ the flow.
> Keep it simple man
>
>
bruno Tonon
Guess you are right once again S.
The problem is I don't experince the flow???
There is no Energy but masses of turbelence created for who knows what?????
Simpatice
B
>
>> Keep it simple man
>>
>>
>
>
Serena Nordstrup
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192694212.6...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 17, 2:34 am, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> "HAPPYsamurai" <profstock...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1192487934.2...@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On 10 Oct, 02:54, "Tex" <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> "HAPPYsamurai" <profstock...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >> >>news:1191907806.9...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> > anybody here like to "share" their "covert" wishes with this lovely
> >> >> > group of forgiving and loving people
>
> >> >> I forgive you Hap.
> >> >> Feel the love?
>
> >> > now aim it at bruno
>
> >> Hey Happ,
>
> >> Don't worry about me. Tex and I get along even if we disagree at times.
> >> At least I know why I am disagreeing and thats helpful.
>
> >> Unfortunately with you or S most of the time I can't understand what
> >> the
> >> hell
> >> you are trying to say???
>
> > If you really want the so-called booby-prize of understanding, grab a
> > dictionary.
>
> > If not, just ~experience~ the flow.
>
> Guess you are right once again S.
Guess you make it easy for me.
> The problem is I don't experince the flow???
>
> There is no Energy but masses of turbelence created for who knows what?????
Turbulence represents energy. Undiscreatable energy.