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Ben Lewis
May 11, 2012, 12:15:15 PM5/11/12
to
I am transmitting "in the blind" now because the server has blocked
reception of new headers..... for the third time this year. All
efforts to fix the problem fail. Last time, the problem fixed itself
after a while. Go figure. Grrrr.........!!!
Only AFL is affected. My other groups are OK
I can post, but not receive. So, I go to goggle to read messaged
posted 10 May and after. So will be lurking in the background.
ben-estie
reception of new headers..... for the third time this year. All
efforts to fix the problem fail. Last time, the problem fixed itself
after a while. Go figure. Grrrr.........!!!
Only AFL is affected. My other groups are OK
I can post, but not receive. So, I go to goggle to read messaged
posted 10 May and after. So will be lurking in the background.
ben-estie
Caligari
May 11, 2012, 12:30:39 PM5/11/12
to
-- C
Tex
May 11, 2012, 11:47:30 PM5/11/12
to
Google even has spell checking now!!!!
patrick
May 12, 2012, 9:59:24 AM5/12/12
to
the bandwidth
what america needs is some competition.
patrick
May 12, 2012, 9:57:09 AM5/12/12
to
On May 11, 10:47 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sinead (Author)
May 12, 2012, 10:10:19 AM5/12/12
to
> benny, if u can read this "stick out ya arms and feel the love"
and Rick and Ellen are coming for you.
patrick
May 12, 2012, 10:27:26 AM5/12/12
to
On May 12, 9:10 am, "Sinead (Author)" <sineadautho...@gmail.com>
wrote:
or not :)
wrote:
> > benny, if u can read this "stick out ya arms and feel the love"
>
> patrick, if you can read this you are in a fanatical religious cult
> and Rick and Ellen are coming for you.
stick out ya arms sin. come on and let us know uf i are a human female
>
> patrick, if you can read this you are in a fanatical religious cult
> and Rick and Ellen are coming for you.
or not :)
Sinead (Author)
May 12, 2012, 10:34:55 AM5/12/12
to
> stick out ya arms sin. come on and let us know uf i are a human female
> or not :)
religious cult.
tubby
May 12, 2012, 9:40:43 PM5/12/12
to
He is lives a full life he loves, he has a wonderful relationship with
his partner , and also
has great family spirit.
On the other hand what about your friends Ellen and the fair Muse
Serena Nordstrup.
No mention of them ever???
Do you hate them????
Give them also some of the love so they may also feel good about the
world they
live in.
I'm placing my arms out now Patty
Cheers
Ellen
May 12, 2012, 10:45:15 PM5/12/12
to
On May 12, 6:40 pm, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 12, 11:57 pm, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 10:47 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Friday, May 11, 2012 12:30:39 PM UTC-4, Caligari wrote:
> > > > On May 11, 9:15 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > I am transmitting "in the blind" now because the server has blocked
> > > > > reception of new headers..... for the third time this year. All
> > > > > efforts to fix the problem fail. Last time, the problem fixed itself
> > > > > after a while. Go figure. Grrrr.........!!!
>
> > > > > Only AFL is affected. My other groups are OK
>
> > > > > I can post, but not receive. So, I go to goggle to read messaged
> > > > > posted 10 May and after. So will be lurking in the background.
>
> > > > > ben-estie
>
> > > > Why not register with Google and post through them?
>
> > > > -- C
>
> > > Newsreader feeds are drying up quickly.
> > > Google even has spell checking now!!!!
>
> > benny, if u can read this "stick out ya arms and feel the love"
>
> Hey Patty I think Ben already feels the love and is living it.
>
> He is lives a full life he loves, he has a wonderful relationship with
> his partner , and also
> has great family spirit.
What exactly is "family spirit," Bruno? Can you give a detailed
> On May 12, 11:57 pm, patrick <patrickda...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 10:47 pm, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Friday, May 11, 2012 12:30:39 PM UTC-4, Caligari wrote:
> > > > On May 11, 9:15 am, Ben Lewis <bengem1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > I am transmitting "in the blind" now because the server has blocked
> > > > > reception of new headers..... for the third time this year. All
> > > > > efforts to fix the problem fail. Last time, the problem fixed itself
> > > > > after a while. Go figure. Grrrr.........!!!
>
> > > > > Only AFL is affected. My other groups are OK
>
> > > > > I can post, but not receive. So, I go to goggle to read messaged
> > > > > posted 10 May and after. So will be lurking in the background.
>
> > > > > ben-estie
>
> > > > Why not register with Google and post through them?
>
> > > > -- C
>
> > > Newsreader feeds are drying up quickly.
> > > Google even has spell checking now!!!!
>
> > benny, if u can read this "stick out ya arms and feel the love"
>
> Hey Patty I think Ben already feels the love and is living it.
>
> He is lives a full life he loves, he has a wonderful relationship with
> his partner , and also
> has great family spirit.
explanation so I know what you are talking about? Please break it
down into your three components: "great," "family," and "spirit." How
have you made this determination? (And would you want to hear from
his "partner" before you make any pronouncements about how "wonderful"
it is?")
Ellen
tubby
May 13, 2012, 7:06:57 AM5/13/12
to
I'm still naive and young at heart .
I trust people and take them at face value.
Ben has told us a little about himself , has told us about some human
foibles
and challenges he has had to face in life and how he overcame them. In
his writings
I have sensed and understood that he is a happy person , and a happy
person usually
has workable happy family relationships.
You are right I did not ask Ben's partner because I do not know her,
but then till someone
makes me aware that things in his life are not what I stated them to
be I will believe what
Ben tells us all.
I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
assumed comment
I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
family relationship??
No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
happy family relationship,
but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
Ben I have to ask you. was my assumption about your happy family
relationship true to the mark
or am I making up stories???
Ellen suggests we ask your partner to verify this and by the way can
you also ask all family members
to check in also so as to satisfy Ellen" s and Baroness"s Nordstrup
rigorous scientific criteria.
Sorry mate, to have to ask you this, but it seems these are the rules
here at ALT FAn Landmark.
Regards Bruno
tubby
May 13, 2012, 7:38:47 AM5/13/12
to
I have noticed your interest in Sinead's sexuality????
Is he posting elsewhere to have you ask this question or are you
just looking for a possible date as someone has suggested previously.
If this is the case I'm curious why you have not asked Baroness
Nordstrup
of her sexuality since she posts under the name of Pau and
Serena???????
Wouldn't you be more her cup of tea since you both have similar
beliefs and
experiences in life?????????
I can just see you both with your arms wide open feeeeeling the love
to feed all
the brethren s on ALT FAn Landmark?????
Just curious???
Cheers
Serena Nordstrup
May 13, 2012, 8:16:19 AM5/13/12
to
> Ben has told us a little about himself , has told us about some human
> foibles
> and challenges he has had to face in life and how he overcame them. In
> his writings
> I have sensed and understood that he is a happy person , and a happy
> person usually
> has workable happy family relationships.
>
> You are right I did not ask Ben's partner because I do not know her,
> but then till someone
> makes me aware that things in his life are not what I stated them to
> be I will believe what
> Ben tells us all.
>
> I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> assumed comment
> I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> family relationship??
>
> No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
> I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> happy family relationship,
> but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> Ben I have to ask you. was my assumption about your happy family
> relationship true to the mark
> or am I making up stories???
>
> Ellen suggests we ask your partner to verify this
> and by the way can
> you also ask all family members
> to check in also so as to satisfy Ellen" s and Baroness"s Nordstrup
> rigorous scientific criteria.
>
> Sorry mate, to have to ask you this, but it seems these are the rules
> here at ALT FAn Landmark.
> Regards Bruno
patrick
May 13, 2012, 11:28:31 AM5/13/12
to
females in the group.
i did a little googling and found sinead could be a female author.
thats it. are u making it mean something else ?
patrick
May 13, 2012, 12:48:57 PM5/13/12
to
patrick
May 13, 2012, 6:03:18 PM5/13/12
to
Ben Lewis
May 14, 2012, 10:01:25 PM5/14/12
to
On Sun, 13 May 2012 04:06:57 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
No problem, mate.
Since I don't have a current background check on Ellen, she is not
cleared for access to such sensitive information. She will just have
to continue believing I and everyone I know and love is, by
association, evil and must be destroyed. So, my wonderful partner and
any good words she might utter about our relationship would be
considered by Ellen to be a lie.
But, just between you and me and those chickens, my partner and I are
living the good life as you noted. There is a lot to be said for
"living in sin" for twenty five years! You can't get divorced if your
not married!! ;-)) Marriage ceremonies sometimes ruin perfectly good
relationships. We are getting up there in years and hope to have
many more before our tickets expire.
Cheers
ben-estie and very non-estie sweetheart.
BTW: Did you like the "Ba Moui Ba" (33) beer in Vietnam? The beer
that was so green, the label slipped off in you hand? We used to say
it would make you sterile if you drank much of it!
wrote:
Since I don't have a current background check on Ellen, she is not
cleared for access to such sensitive information. She will just have
to continue believing I and everyone I know and love is, by
association, evil and must be destroyed. So, my wonderful partner and
any good words she might utter about our relationship would be
considered by Ellen to be a lie.
But, just between you and me and those chickens, my partner and I are
living the good life as you noted. There is a lot to be said for
"living in sin" for twenty five years! You can't get divorced if your
not married!! ;-)) Marriage ceremonies sometimes ruin perfectly good
relationships. We are getting up there in years and hope to have
many more before our tickets expire.
Cheers
ben-estie and very non-estie sweetheart.
BTW: Did you like the "Ba Moui Ba" (33) beer in Vietnam? The beer
that was so green, the label slipped off in you hand? We used to say
it would make you sterile if you drank much of it!
tubby
May 15, 2012, 4:13:56 AM5/15/12
to
I have to go by gut feel when describing you. What else is
there???????
>
> > Ben has told us a little about himself , has told us about some human
> > foibles
> > and challenges he has had to face in life and how he overcame them. In
> > his writings
> > I have sensed and understood that he is a happy person , and a happy
> > person usually
>
> ... "usuallly" ... You know this how ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > has workable happy family relationships.
>
> > You are right I did not ask Ben's partner because I do not know her,
> > but then till someone
> > makes me aware that things in his life are not what I stated them to
> > be I will believe what
> > Ben tells us all.
>
> > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > assumed comment
> > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > family relationship??
>
> > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> Clearly labeled as such?
Correct.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > has workable happy family relationships.
>
> > You are right I did not ask Ben's partner because I do not know her,
> > but then till someone
> > makes me aware that things in his life are not what I stated them to
> > be I will believe what
> > Ben tells us all.
>
> > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > assumed comment
> > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > family relationship??
>
> > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> Clearly labeled as such?
>
> > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > happy family relationship,
> > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > Ben I have to ask you. was my assumption about your happy family
> > relationship true to the mark
> > or am I making up stories???
>
> > Ellen suggests we ask your partner to verify this
>
> I saw no such suggestion. Did you make up this ~story~, Bruno?
>
> > and by the way can
> > you also ask all family members
> > to check in also so as to satisfy Ellen" s and Baroness"s Nordstrup
> > rigorous scientific criteria.
>
> > Sorry mate, to have to ask you this, but it seems these are the rules
> > here at ALT FAn Landmark.
>
> Rules based on what?
You!!!!
Cheers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Regards Bruno
tubby
May 15, 2012, 4:21:08 AM5/15/12
to
On May 15, 12:01 pm, Ben Lewis <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2012 04:06:57 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
I thought my gut feel was correct Ben, however the Baroness Nordstrup
being a wee more
sophisticated doubts my assessment of the situation
.
Glad to hear you are well and your presence in this group lifts the
tone of the conversation
to a more living one . Pleasure to have you with us, especially with
all that dark sombreness from
the other side.
>
> Cheers
>
> ben-estie and very non-estie sweetheart.
>
> BTW: Did you like the "Ba Moui Ba" (33) beer in Vietnam? The beer
> that was so green, the label slipped off in you hand? We used to say
> it would make you sterile if you drank much of it!
I don't recall it Ben, we were never that long at Saigon Airport,
approx 3 hours and crew
were not allowed to drink openly.
We carried good old" Fosters " for Aussie Boys we were
bringing back home
Regards
Bruno
> On Sun, 13 May 2012 04:06:57 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
being a wee more
sophisticated doubts my assessment of the situation
.
Glad to hear you are well and your presence in this group lifts the
tone of the conversation
to a more living one . Pleasure to have you with us, especially with
all that dark sombreness from
the other side.
>
> Cheers
>
> ben-estie and very non-estie sweetheart.
>
> BTW: Did you like the "Ba Moui Ba" (33) beer in Vietnam? The beer
> that was so green, the label slipped off in you hand? We used to say
> it would make you sterile if you drank much of it!
approx 3 hours and crew
were not allowed to drink openly.
We carried good old" Fosters " for Aussie Boys we were
bringing back home
Regards
Bruno
Ben Lewis
May 15, 2012, 9:59:50 AM5/15/12
to
On Tue, 15 May 2012 01:21:08 -0700 (PDT), tubby <bton...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I will have to try some "Fosters". I see it in the stores. So many
beers, so little time! ;-))
ben-estie
wrote:
beers, so little time! ;-))
ben-estie
Caligari
May 16, 2012, 3:27:20 AM5/16/12
to
On May 15, 6:59 am, Ben Lewis <bentot1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2012 01:21:08 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
Ir looks like Google wasn't forwarding it's posts to usenet
newsreaders and has began forwarding them again. So your newsreader
may work now.
-- Caligari
> On Tue, 15 May 2012 01:21:08 -0700 (PDT), tubby <btono...@gmail.com>
newsreaders and has began forwarding them again. So your newsreader
may work now.
-- Caligari
Ben Lewis
May 16, 2012, 11:50:44 AM5/16/12
to
Not sure what/which is going on here.
I have two computers, one travels between summer and winter homes, the
other one is my mail computer that stays at the summer home. A couple
days ago, I compared the configurations of the two Agent news reader
programs. I noted that the user ID differed. I changed the summer
machine's ID to match that of the winter machine's. Ergo, instant
success!!
Now I learn from you that other events may have happened. :((
So, I ask myself, did I correct the problem, or did it fix itself??
Sigh... reminds me of the long dialog in the est training about
driving a car with the rear view mirror!
As an old electronic tech, I hated it when my apparent brilliant
solutions were confused by events I didn't control or know about.
Guess that's why I enjoyed the professions so much.
I still have a defective thimble sized pulse transformer in my "memory
locker." Back in 1958, I was trying to fix a navy "Identification
Friend of Foe" test set (AN/UPM-70). It had me stumped for two weeks
before I finally discovered the pulse transformer was outputting a
too-narrow plus to a coincidence gate. I hate to think what that
repair cost. Maybe I will have it encapsulated and embed ed in my
tombstone. ;))
ben-estie
Ellen
May 16, 2012, 12:16:39 PM5/16/12
to
On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
(snip)
> I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> assumed comment
> I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> family relationship??
>
> No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> happy family relationship,
> but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
He sold his snake oil based on this fabricated ~creation.~ It was
false -- embellished, white-washed, mythologized, sanitized, packaged,
and floated around like some advertisement for his silly "programs."
He made all sorts of preposterous claims that his "training" would
teach people how to ~handle~ past mistakes (~disappear them~),
inconvenient truths (~re-contextualize them~), and other ~upsets~
(with ~technology~). He hoisted his poor old long-suffering first
wife up on the stage and had her dance to his tune. He had his kids
pantomime for the cameras. He employed people to go around "fixing"
things for him after he'd "messed up." He treated other people
miserably and needed lots up help ($$$) to maintain this fantasy.
When wife number two finally gave up, after enduring years of abuse,
the whole house of cards collapsed. He was imperious, nasty-tempered,
conceited, and cruel. His ~creation,~ both est and Landmark, are
reflections of his own personality and character. And it was easy
for him to get people to believe what he made up. I imagine his
followers like this idea. Are you one of them?
Ellen
(snip)
> I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> assumed comment
> I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> family relationship??
>
> No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> happy family relationship,
> but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
He sold his snake oil based on this fabricated ~creation.~ It was
false -- embellished, white-washed, mythologized, sanitized, packaged,
and floated around like some advertisement for his silly "programs."
He made all sorts of preposterous claims that his "training" would
teach people how to ~handle~ past mistakes (~disappear them~),
inconvenient truths (~re-contextualize them~), and other ~upsets~
(with ~technology~). He hoisted his poor old long-suffering first
wife up on the stage and had her dance to his tune. He had his kids
pantomime for the cameras. He employed people to go around "fixing"
things for him after he'd "messed up." He treated other people
miserably and needed lots up help ($$$) to maintain this fantasy.
When wife number two finally gave up, after enduring years of abuse,
the whole house of cards collapsed. He was imperious, nasty-tempered,
conceited, and cruel. His ~creation,~ both est and Landmark, are
reflections of his own personality and character. And it was easy
for him to get people to believe what he made up. I imagine his
followers like this idea. Are you one of them?
Ellen
Caligari
May 16, 2012, 12:28:53 PM5/16/12
to
easier to read on a small screen than on a web page. I noticed also
no updates from the newsreader I subscribed to for alt.fan.landmark.
But I did get some of your post updates which I assume did not come
through Google Groups. Then yesterday I tried updating and got over
200 entries from alt.fan.landmark. So it looks to me like it was a
problem on Google's end.
I'm not a hardware guy (software is my gig), so I don't know about
pulse transformers. But it sounds interesting.
;),
Caligari
Tex
May 16, 2012, 2:01:10 PM5/16/12
to
On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> (snip)
>
>
> > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > assumed comment
> > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
> >
> > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > family relationship??
> >
> > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
> >
> > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > happy family relationship,
> > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
>
> Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> (snip)
>
>
> > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > assumed comment
> > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
> >
> > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > family relationship??
> >
> > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
> >
> > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > happy family relationship,
> > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
>
> Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
Fact:
Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
In fact, it was the opposite.
When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
Ellen, keep writing your fiction.
It continues to illustrate your stupidity and ignorance.
Blinded by the illogic of prejudice, once again folks! ;)
Caligari
May 16, 2012, 2:44:57 PM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 11:01 am, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (snip)
>
> > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > assumed comment
> > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > family relationship??
>
> > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > happy family relationship,
> > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
>
> What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
>
> Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
>
> Fact:
>
> Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
>
> It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
> In fact, it was the opposite.
>
> When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
Around 1980 I was assisting outside the former est office, 1750 Union
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (snip)
>
> > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > assumed comment
> > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > family relationship??
>
> > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > happy family relationship,
> > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
>
> What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
>
> Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
>
> Fact:
>
> Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
>
> It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
> In fact, it was the opposite.
>
> When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
Street -- it was then inhabited by Hermenet, Fernando Flore's tech
company building a communication software called Coordinator based on
his semantic theories. One of the staff members at the assisting
activity had the name tag "Pat Campbell". At one point she told me
she was Werner's first wife. I was so dumb founded at the time that I
didn't know what to say back. I would ask some questions now ;)
-- Caligari
Ellen
May 16, 2012, 3:22:55 PM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 11:01 am, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (snip)
>
> > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > assumed comment
> > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > family relationship??
>
> > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > happy family relationship,
> > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
>
> What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
That's right. He "sold" himself as an example of how to~clean up
> > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (snip)
>
> > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > assumed comment
> > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > family relationship??
>
> > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > happy family relationship,
> > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
>
> What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
messes~ from the past. He wanted people to think it was his "secret
sauce" (~technology~) and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to
offer) to pay them off.
>
> Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
>
> Fact:
>
> Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
>
> It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
> In fact, it was the opposite.
>
> When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
>
> Ellen, keep writing your fiction.
> It continues to illustrate your stupidity and ignorance.
Erhard's "official" version.
>
> Blinded by the illogic of prejudice, once again folks!
this one, "Tex." There's a ton of evidence that is not coming off the
Landmark website.
You must be another Bruno -- just desperate to believe any PR this
creep puts out.
Ellen
Sinead (Author)
May 16, 2012, 3:41:39 PM5/16/12
to
> That's right. He "sold" himself
real world?
> as an example of how to~clean up messes~ from the past.
blind resentment and dishonesty.
> He wanted people to think it was his "secret sauce" (~technology~)
evidence for your assertion.
> and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to offer) to pay them off.
> Pssst: $$$
Please provide proof and evidence for your assertion.
> You might want to listen to someone else's version besides Werner Erhard's "official" version.
> You must be another Bruno -- just desperate to believe any PR this creep puts out.
Ellen? Or is it just other people who are "creeps"?
>
> Ellen
Ellen
May 16, 2012, 4:40:55 PM5/16/12
to
On May 16, 12:41 pm, "Sinead (Author)" <sineadautho...@gmail.com>
wrote:
information threatening to you? He was a con man. Get over it.
>
> > as an example of how to~clean up messes~ from the past.
>
> What are you an example of Ellen? Critical thinking? You wish! Try
> blind resentment and dishonesty.
I'm not selling anything. Or trying to protect my ass(ets).
>
> > He wanted people to think it was his "secret sauce" (~technology~)
>
> How do you know what Werner Erhard "wanted"? Please provide proof and
> evidence for your assertion.
>
> > and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to offer) to pay them off.
>
> Please provide proof and evidence for your assertion.
>
> > Pssst: $$$
>
> Please provide proof and evidence for your assertion.
I already submitted a very long reading list.
>
> > You might want to listen to someone else's version besides Werner Erhard's "official" version.
>
> Who's version do you suggest? Your and your guru Rick Ross's?
How about the people he wasn't able to buy off? His son, say, or the
nanny, Bob Larzelere, his wife, two of his daughters....
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?Itemid=12&id=5188&option=com_content&task=view
> > You must be another Bruno -- just desperate to believe any PR this creep puts out.
>
> What is the value of the "PR" you "put out" Ellen? Are you a "creep"
> Ellen? Or is it just other people who are "creeps"?
Werner Erhard and his pals made a bundle off people like you -- people
who will believe anything if their egos are fused with the product
("branded"). It's surprisingly easy to do this; even the lowliest of
ad men know how to do it -- say, marketing cigarettes as "cool," or
liquor as a social "lubricant." (Here's a hint: the more exploitive
the product, the more likely its producers will resort to manipulative
tricks & tactics.)
He's laughing all the way to the bank.
Ellen
wrote:
> > That's right. He "sold" himself
>
> What you are selling is hatred and cynicism, how are sales in the
> real world?
Since when is calling a spade a spade ~hatred 'n' cynicism?~ Is this
>
> What you are selling is hatred and cynicism, how are sales in the
> real world?
information threatening to you? He was a con man. Get over it.
>
> > as an example of how to~clean up messes~ from the past.
>
> What are you an example of Ellen? Critical thinking? You wish! Try
> blind resentment and dishonesty.
>
> > He wanted people to think it was his "secret sauce" (~technology~)
>
> How do you know what Werner Erhard "wanted"? Please provide proof and
> evidence for your assertion.
>
> > and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to offer) to pay them off.
>
> Please provide proof and evidence for your assertion.
>
> > Pssst: $$$
>
> Please provide proof and evidence for your assertion.
>
> > You might want to listen to someone else's version besides Werner Erhard's "official" version.
>
> Who's version do you suggest? Your and your guru Rick Ross's?
nanny, Bob Larzelere, his wife, two of his daughters....
http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?Itemid=12&id=5188&option=com_content&task=view
> > You must be another Bruno -- just desperate to believe any PR this creep puts out.
>
> What is the value of the "PR" you "put out" Ellen? Are you a "creep"
> Ellen? Or is it just other people who are "creeps"?
who will believe anything if their egos are fused with the product
("branded"). It's surprisingly easy to do this; even the lowliest of
ad men know how to do it -- say, marketing cigarettes as "cool," or
liquor as a social "lubricant." (Here's a hint: the more exploitive
the product, the more likely its producers will resort to manipulative
tricks & tactics.)
He's laughing all the way to the bank.
Ellen
Sinead (Author)
May 16, 2012, 5:21:17 PM5/16/12
to
> Werner Erhard and his pals made a bundle off people like you -- people
> who will believe anything if their egos are fused with the product
> ("branded"). It's surprisingly easy to do this; even the lowliest of
> ad men know how to do it -- say, marketing cigarettes as "cool," or
> liquor as a social "lubricant." (Here's a hint: the more exploitive
> the product, the more likely its producers will resort to manipulative
> tricks & tactics.)
>
> He's laughing all the way to the bank.
>
> Ellen
it is usually from some service or product that succeeds and is in
demand. That is how we set up our society. The customers of Landmark
Edu. seem thrilled by the service , which I would measure by the
growth of the company and demand for 3-4 Landmark Forums a month in
some cities. You don't like or are jealous that people are making $,
well, do something about it or move to North Korea.
tubby
May 16, 2012, 7:45:27 PM5/16/12
to
of my world.
When I was first introduced to Est by a Limousine driver at Melbourne
airport
( I was working in Tourism then) I cacked my pants because the man had
so much
intention in his voice when explaining what happened in an Est
workshop, that the
whole experience made me a wee uneasy.
Nuuh wasn't interested then because I was raising a family and had
different priorities
so I never Knew Werner in his prime.
Later I had met Est old timers when assisting with Landmark, they
would certainly speak highly of
Werner and crowd when asked about the past. Werner did nothing for
me as he was from the past and the reigning
Landmark crowd never spoke of him.
When I finally saw his Video on the net at Harvard Management
school I thought he was moth eaten and past his prime, as
the world had moved on.
However at his best, considering the cultural times of the day he must
have been fantastic on stage
according to the Esties that attended.
On the other hand, I did fall for the skills of the Forum leaders at
first glance however I soon recovered
later when I realised they had feet of clay.
Some of what you say about Werner Ellen may be true, and Tex and
others have acknowledged that.
Its no secret Werner's past is littered with sour familial
relationships.
Divorce proceedings are always messy and painful all over the world.
My benefits were from Landmark. The communication between my wife
improved ( It was always good)
and got better and I started to talk to my children more. So it was
all good for me and I have the fondest memories
of my time assisting .
Sure I met a few est-holes, however on the whole most of the
participants and staff were good decent people.
That's why when I read your Emails and the passion of your
disagreement with Werner and crowd it does not gel
with my experience.
Just wanted to clear up your misunderstanding about my view on Werner
and crowd.
Cheers
Tex
May 16, 2012, 9:13:07 PM5/16/12
to
Tex
May 16, 2012, 9:26:11 PM5/16/12
to
On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 3:22:55 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> On May 16, 11:01 am, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> > > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > (snip)
> >
> > > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > > assumed comment
> > > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
> >
> > > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > > family relationship??
> >
> > > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
> >
> > > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > > happy family relationship,
> > > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
> >
> > > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
> >
> > What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> > Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
>
>
> That's right. He "sold" himself as an example of how to~clean up
> messes~ from the past. He wanted people to think it was his "secret
> sauce" (~technology~) and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to
> offer) to pay them off.
Well, it was quite a mess.
> On May 16, 11:01 am, Tex <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 12:16:39 PM UTC-4, Ellen wrote:
> > > On May 13, 4:06 am, tubby <btono...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > (snip)
> >
> > > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > > assumed comment
> > > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
> >
> > > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > > family relationship??
> >
> > > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
> >
> > > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > > happy family relationship,
> > > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
> >
> > > Bruno, lots and lots of people believed the happy-clappy ~story~ about
> > > Werner Erhard's wonderful family life and his ~great relationships.~
> >
> > What a crock of shit, Ellen.
> > Werner Erhard talked about how much he damaged his family relationships and spent time trying to make it right.
>
>
> That's right. He "sold" himself as an example of how to~clean up
> messes~ from the past. He wanted people to think it was his "secret
> sauce" (~technology~) and not the $$$ he offered (or pretended to
> offer) to pay them off.
Ellen, not everyone can be bought.
I never heard him brag about the mess he cleaned up.
Again, you weren't there, don't know, and have great misconceptions of what happened.
>
>
> >
> > Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
> >
> > Fact:
> >
> > Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
>
>
> Pssst: $$$
So we conclude that you can be bought?
>
> >
> > Your claim of Werner's claims and the truth are once again at odds with reality.
> >
> > Fact:
> >
> > Eventually, he reconciled with his Philadelphia family, including his mother, and moved them all out to California. That also included his first wife.
>
>
> Pssst: $$$
>
>
>
> >
> > It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
> > In fact, it was the opposite.
> >
> > When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
> >
> > Ellen, keep writing your fiction.
> > It continues to illustrate your stupidity and ignorance.
>
>
> You might want to listen to someone else's version besides Werner
> Erhard's "official" version.
>
>
>
> >
> > Blinded by the illogic of prejudice, once again folks!
>
>
> "Prejudice" means to pre-judge (without evidence). The jury's in on
> this one, "Tex." There's a ton of evidence that is not coming off the
> Landmark website.
Your prejudice is that of judging people you don't know, people you've never met, events you've never seen, and judging you know more about than them.
>
>
> >
> > It was never, ever suggested that he had "wonderful relationships."
> > In fact, it was the opposite.
> >
> > When describing himself, he often referred to his "pat" as the "low road."
> >
> > Ellen, keep writing your fiction.
> > It continues to illustrate your stupidity and ignorance.
>
>
> You might want to listen to someone else's version besides Werner
> Erhard's "official" version.
>
>
>
> >
> > Blinded by the illogic of prejudice, once again folks!
>
>
> "Prejudice" means to pre-judge (without evidence). The jury's in on
> this one, "Tex." There's a ton of evidence that is not coming off the
> Landmark website.
You are self-delusional.
>
> You must be another Bruno -- just desperate to believe any PR this
> creep puts out.
That he was an asshole that abandoned his family, deserted them, and then realized what a terrible thing he
>
>
>
> Ellen
Serena Nordstrup
May 19, 2012, 6:59:26 AM5/19/12
to
> I have to go by gut feel when describing you. What else is
> there???????
not encompass speculative descriptions of fellow posters...)
> > > Ben has told us a little about himself , has told us about some human
> > > foibles
> > > and challenges he has had to face in life and how he overcame them. In
> > > his writings
> > > I have sensed and understood that he is a happy person , and a happy
> > > person usually
>
> > ... "usuallly" ... You know this how ?
>
> Past experience dear Muse. Past experience.
> > > has workable happy family relationships.
relationships" ?
> > > You are right I did not ask Ben's partner because I do not know her,
> > > but then till someone
> > > makes me aware that things in his life are not what I stated them to
> > > be I will believe what
> > > Ben tells us all.
>
> > > I find it strange though Ellen that you should ark up because of a +ve
> > > assumed comment
> > > I have made about Ben's happy family relationships.
>
> > > Its as if you have a tinge of envy that one should question a happy
> > > family relationship??
>
> > > No double blind trials here but just my gut feel.
>
> > Clearly labeled as such?
>
> Correct.
>
>
>
> > > I would have thought you may have been happy to hear that Ben has a
> > > happy family relationship,
> > > but it looks to me that you have great doubts about this.
>
> > > Ben I have to ask you. was my assumption about your happy family
> > > relationship true to the mark
> > > or am I making up stories???
>
> > > Ellen suggests we ask your partner to verify this
>
> > I saw no such suggestion. Did you make up this ~story~, Bruno?
>
> It was implied fair Muse.
partner?
> > > and by the way can
> > > you also ask all family members
> > > to check in also so as to satisfy Ellen" s and Baroness"s Nordstrup
> > > rigorous scientific criteria.
>
> > > Sorry mate, to have to ask you this, but it seems these are the rules
> > > here at ALT FAn Landmark.
>
> > Rules based on what?
>
> On you Muse .
>
> You!!!!
Serena Nordstrup
May 19, 2012, 7:23:20 AM5/19/12
to
On May 17, 9:21 am, "Sinead (Author)" <sineadautho...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> where yes people make $ off of each other and
> it is usually from some service or product that succeeds and is in
> demand.
Like tax-gathering, for example.
>That is how we set up our society.
Nobody set up "our society" that way. It developed into that sort of
monstrosity.
> The customers of Landmark
> Edu. seem thrilled by the service ,
... except for fose who seem distinctly less than thrilled ...
> which I would measure by the growth of the company
alleged growth of the org -- with a declining growth-curve and a
diminishing market-share ...
> and demand for 3-4 Landmark Forums a month in
> some cities.
As opposed to cessations in other cities -- closed offices and fewer
courses.
> You don't like or are jealous that people are making $,
> well, do something about it or move to North Korea.
You've noticed that the model has started to decay: well ignore that
and preach prosperity anyway...
wrote:
> > Werner Erhard and his pals made a bundle off people like you -- people
> > who will believe anything if their egos are fused with the product
> > ("branded"). It's surprisingly easy to do this; even the lowliest of
> > ad men know how to do it -- say, marketing cigarettes as "cool," or
> > liquor as a social "lubricant." (Here's a hint: the more exploitive
> > the product, the more likely its producers will resort to manipulative
> > tricks & tactics.)
>
> > He's laughing all the way to the bank.
>
> > Ellen
>
> We live in a great land
Not true for all. Irrelevant for all.
> > who will believe anything if their egos are fused with the product
> > ("branded"). It's surprisingly easy to do this; even the lowliest of
> > ad men know how to do it -- say, marketing cigarettes as "cool," or
> > liquor as a social "lubricant." (Here's a hint: the more exploitive
> > the product, the more likely its producers will resort to manipulative
> > tricks & tactics.)
>
> > He's laughing all the way to the bank.
>
> > Ellen
>
> We live in a great land
> where yes people make $ off of each other and
> it is usually from some service or product that succeeds and is in
> demand.
>That is how we set up our society.
monstrosity.
> The customers of Landmark
> Edu. seem thrilled by the service ,
> which I would measure by the growth of the company
diminishing market-share ...
> and demand for 3-4 Landmark Forums a month in
> some cities.
courses.
> You don't like or are jealous that people are making $,
> well, do something about it or move to North Korea.
and preach prosperity anyway...
Serena Nordstrup
May 19, 2012, 7:34:03 AM5/19/12
to
puts out".
Ellen did not offer any statements about your "view on Werner and
crowd". She commented on belief in "any PR" put out by Jack Rosenberg.
tubby
May 19, 2012, 7:52:33 AM5/19/12
to
I couldn't give a rats arse about Jack Rosenberg and crowd never met
them.
What PR are you talking about be specific so I can understand what you
mean????
On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
Cheers
I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
Serena Nordstrup
May 23, 2012, 2:45:36 AM5/23/12
to
You potentially may not give a rat's arse about many unmet people and
groups...
> What PR are you talking about be specific so I can understand what you
> mean????
puts out". That might include any quote from ~landmark~ so-called
~education~, for example...
> On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
> Cheers
> I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
what passes for their ideas ?
tubby
May 23, 2012, 8:20:42 AM5/23/12
to
sending you some of their emails just to get you frothing at the
mouth.
Yes I do that just to get you interested since you are so
knowledgeable about them
I hope to keep you up to date with all their new courses.
you like that don't you???
> > On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
>
> Quit while you hope you might appear ahead...
>
> > Cheers
> > I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
>
> You couldn't give a rat's arse where forumites get their jargon and
> what passes for their ideas ?
Good night Baropness
Serena Nordstrup
May 27, 2012, 4:16:33 AM5/27/12
to
make no reference to the quote about rosenbergism as a rollercoaster
ride ?
> however I do like
> sending you some of their emails just to get you frothing at the
> mouth.
> Yes I do that just to get you interested since you are so
> knowledgeable about them
> I hope to keep you up to date with all their new courses.
>
> you like that don't you???
> > > On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
>
> > Quit while you hope you might appear ahead...
>
> > > Cheers
> > > I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
>
> > You couldn't give a rat's arse where forumites get their jargon and
> > what passes for their ideas ?
>
> No not from you because you always have it arsss backwards.
> Good night Baropness
tubby
May 27, 2012, 4:46:39 AM5/27/12
to
Correct that's the words the Forum leader would use and yes in this
case
I am using their dialogue in explaining a state of what you may
experience
whilst doing the course..
>
> > however I do like
> > sending you some of their emails just to get you frothing at the
> > mouth.
>
> Non sequitur.
this illusion of seeing you froth at the mouth.
>
> > Yes I do that just to get you interested since you are so
> > knowledgeable about them
> > I hope to keep you up to date with all their new courses.
>
> > you like that don't you???
>
> The ongoing idiocy does provide some twisted amusement...
it
twisted amusement. It shows after all that you are not 100% wooden.
>
> > > > On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
>
> > > Quit while you hope you might appear ahead...
>
> > > > Cheers
> > > > I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
>
> > > You couldn't give a rat's arse where forumites get their jargon and
> > > what passes for their ideas ?
>
> > No not from you because you always have it arsss backwards.
>
> Phew!
right.
You will be pleased .
Sleep tight my fair Baroness.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Good night Baropness
Serena Nordstrup
May 28, 2012, 5:36:29 AM5/28/12
to
> > > however I do like
> > > sending you some of their emails just to get you frothing at the
> > > mouth.
>
> > Non sequitur.
>
> I know but that doesn't matter.
> I just like to tease you and I create
> this illusion of seeing you froth at the mouth.
> > > Yes I do that just to get you interested since you are so
> > > knowledgeable about them
> > > I hope to keep you up to date with all their new courses.
>
> > > you like that don't you???
>
> > The ongoing idiocy does provide some twisted amusement...
>
> Ahhh good. I'm glad you can see the funny side, even though you call
> it
> twisted amusement. It shows after all that you are not 100% wooden.
> > > > > On the other hand forget it , not worth the spit to discuss it.
>
> > > > Quit while you hope you might appear ahead...
>
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > I had a great time assisting and participating in Forum
>
> > > > You couldn't give a rat's arse where forumites get their jargon and
> > > > what passes for their ideas ?
>
> > > No not from you because you always have it arsss backwards.
>
> > Phew!
>
> That '" s right Baroness you get the Booby prize and you get to be
> right.
> You will be pleased .
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