Barbaric attacks on women
bruno Tonon
barbaric customs of many
devoloping countries. Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all you
need is love"
complimentary closes and Happ's Ethical values.
Is this what the silent ladies in the group sanction.
Just wondering.
In my youth there was more respect for women and its a sad state of affairs
when we go
backwards towards latent misogyny .
Drawing a Line Between Enduring Harm and Legitimate Fear
By Adam Liptak
The New York Times
Monday 05 November 2007
When Alima Traore was a young girl in Mali, parts of her genitalia were
cut off, which is the custom there.
"In my country, usually there is an old lady who does circumcision,"
said Ms. Traore, who is 28, lives in Maryland and works as a cashier. "They
have a small knife that they cut the intimate parts with. It is very
atrocious."
In September, the Board of Immigration Appeals rejected Ms. Traore's
plea for asylum and ordered her sent back to Mali. It ruled that she did not
face persecution there, because the cutting, while "reprehensible," could
not be repeated. "The loss of a limb also gives rise to enduring harm," the
board said, but it would not be a good enough reason to grant asylum.
The board also said that Ms. Traore's fear that any daughters she might
have would be subjected to similar barbarity was of no moment. Nor did it
matter that Ms. Traore's father has said he will force her to marry a first
cousin - his sister's son.
"My decision is irrevocable," her father, Elhadj Traore, wrote to her in
2004. "The dowry has been paid, and all the Traore clan agrees. The animal
sacrifice has been made for the village."
Lauri Steven Filppu, writing for a three-member panel of the immigration
board, was measured in his sympathy.
"It is understandable," he wrote, that Ms. Traore, "an educated young
woman, would prefer to choose her own spouse rather than acquiesce to
pressure from her family to marry someone she does not love and with whom
she expects to be unhappy. The respondent has also expressed valid concerns
about possible birth defects resulting from a union with her first cousin."
"While we do not discount the respondent's concerns," Mr. Filppu
continued, "we do not see how the reluctant acceptance of family tradition
over personal preference can form the basis" for allowing Ms. Traore to stay
in the United States.
Karen Musalo, the director of the Center for Gender and Refugee Studies
at Hastings College of the Law, said that reasoning was the product of a
judicial system dominated by men.
"Are women's rights human rights?" Professor Musalo asked. "Isn't it a
human right not to be forced into a marriage?"
Last week, Ms. Traore's lawyers filed a motion for reconsideration. They
noted that the logic of the board's decision was not always easy to follow.
The board acknowledged, for instance, that women who have been subjected
to forced sterilization are routinely granted asylum even though that
procedure, like genital cutting, cannot be repeated. The board, which is
part of the Justice Department, rejected the reasoning of a 2005 decision by
the federal appeals court in California, which refused to deport a woman who
had been subjected to genital cutting in Somalia.
"Like forced sterilization," Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote for a
unanimous three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the
Ninth Circuit, "genital mutilation permanently disfigures a woman, causes
long-term health problems, and deprives her of a normal and fulfilling
sexual life."
That is an understatement, Professor Musalo said.
"The kind of physical and psychological devastation that goes along with
female genital cutting is profound," Professor Musalo said. "It results in
sex that is absolutely torturous, that not only has no pleasure but is a
locus point of pain and agony."
Ms. Traore used simpler language.
"I don't feel great in my body," she said. "A woman needs to be
complete."
Professor Musalo had a theory about why the board treated forced
sterilization differently from genital cutting. Sterilization affects
procreation and motherhood, which are valued by men. Genital cutting, by
contrast, affects only women's sexual pleasure and autonomy.
The board, for its part, said the differing treatment of forced
sterilization and genital cutting was required by a federal law. But the law
said nothing about whether courts must grant asylum to past victims of
either kind of abuse, a fact Mr. Filppu of the immigration board recognized
in a 2003 dissent. In the September decision and in earlier cases, the
immigration board referred to the procedure as F.G.M., for female genital
mutilation. The abbreviation bothered Judge Reinhardt.
"We see no need for using initials rather than the full three-word
phrase," he wrote in the 2005 decision. "We are short neither of paper nor
of ink. The use of initials, if it has any effect, serves only to dull the
senses and minimize the barbaric nature of the practice."
Some 95 percent of women in Mali have undergone genital cutting,
according to State Department reports. The procedure takes various forms,
ranging from the removal of the clitoral hood to the excision of all of the
external genitalia. Ms. Traore's clitoris and vulva were removed.
The cutting is performed, a 2001 State Department report said, with "a
special saw-toothed knife," usually unsterilized and almost always without
anesthesia. Some tribes in Mali believe, the report said, "that if the
clitoris comes in contact with the baby's head during birth, the child will
die" or that "a man could be killed by the secretion of a poison from the
clitoris upon its contact with the penis."
Ms. Traore has lived here since 2000. She arrived on a tourist visa and
stayed on a student visa, attending college and studying nursing. But her
student visa expired in 2003.
She would like to stay.
"It is a better place for women than Mali, because in Mali women don't
have any voice," she said. "Because it is the men who control."
-------
patrick_darcy
> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman implies and leads to supporting
> the
> barbaric customs of many
>
> devoloping countries. Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all
> you need is love"
i have no clue to what u are talking about.
please explain how my signature has anything to do with what u have posted.
thanks.
--
Love is all u need.
bruno Tonon
"patrick_darcy" <patric...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:472fe6ed$0$25630$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> bruno Tonon wrote:
>
>> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman implies and leads to supporting
>> the
>> barbaric customs of many
>>
>> devoloping countries. Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all
>> you need is love"
>
>
> i have no clue to what u are talking about.
> please explain how my signature has anything to do with what u have
> posted.
> thanks.
Pretty simple Patrick,
You have ranted endelessly about "The Jinn" using foul language and yet when
Cody gets abused by Eldon's using foul language you remain as silent as a
poor
church mouse. Whats wrong with you are you gutless????
Is the Jinn more important than Cody ????
Eldon's foul attack on Cody is a latent attack on all woman and their
dignity,
and to accept that as normal behaviour as you have done means to me that
your signature of love and your Christianiaty are just a convenient front
for
the pretty gross values you hold.
Given other circumstances you would most probably accept the mutaliation
of women
as mere custom that had nothing to do with your Christian beliefs because
they are \
heathens anyway and they deserve all they get.
Cheers
Glam
On Nov 6, 5:17 am, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> "patrick_darcy" <patrickda...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
patrick_darcy
>
> "patrick_darcy" <patric...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:472fe6ed$0$25630$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>> bruno Tonon wrote:
>>
>>> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman implies and leads to supporting
>>> the
>>> barbaric customs of many
>>>
>>> devoloping countries. Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all
>>> you need is love"
>>
>>
>> i have no clue to what u are talking about.
>> please explain how my signature has anything to do with what u have
>> posted.
>> thanks.
>
> Pretty simple Patrick,
>
> You have ranted endelessly about "The Jinn" using foul language and yet
> when
> Cody gets abused by Eldon's using foul language you remain as silent as a
> poor
> church mouse. Whats wrong with you are you gutless????
actually i havent been reading the newsgroup all that closely as of late.
> Is the Jinn more important than Cody ????
>
> Eldon's foul attack on Cody is a latent attack on all woman and their
> dignity,
> and to accept that as normal behaviour as you have done means to me
> that
> your signature of love and your Christianiaty are just a convenient front
> for
> the pretty gross values you hold.
oh please, that is complete and utter rubbish. i dont accept people
attacking other people.
> Given other circumstances you would most probably accept the mutaliation
> of women
> as mere custom that had nothing to do with your Christian beliefs because
> they are \
> heathens anyway and they deserve all they get.
again more rubbish.
u have just told me more about yourself that u probably would want to.
HAPPYsamurai
the difference between sentimental and sentimentality
sentimental:
swerving to miss a cat in the road
sentimentality:
swerving to miss the cat in the road and killing 3 pedestrians
Tex
What other types of behavior do you try to rationalize?
"HAPPYsamurai" <profst...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1194393421.2...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Serena Nordstrup
> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some off-
color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par for
the course round these parts.
> implies and leads to supporting the barbaric customs of many
> devoloping countries.
How so? Explain the connection, please!
And which developing countries? How many? Do you regard Egypt as a
developing country?
> Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all you
> need is love"
>
> complimentary closes and Happ's Ethical values.
>
> Is this what the silent ladies in the group sanction.
>
> Just wondering.
>
> In my youth there was more respect for women and its a sad state of affairs
> when we go backwards towards latent misogyny .
You ~experienced~ your youth as a golden age. Funny, that.
bruno Tonon
"Serena Nordstrup" <s_nor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1194423228.1...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 6, 4:43 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
>
> What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some off-
> color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par for
> the course round these parts.
I can't believe that you of all people would not stand up for Cody and
the way she was spoken to. Thats never happened in this group before.
Why would you not make a stand for being spoken to like that????
Especially to another sister, an intelligent one at that who has an opinion
and arguments to back that up.
You don't have to agree with Cody but at least use your rationality,
looooogic and questions you are so fond of to bolster your point of view.
Nuh drinks are off again Serena.
Too disappointed in your gutless behaviour, especially to a sister.
cheers
bruno Tonon
An attack on Cody is an attack on all women.
I'm sorry you don't see it that way, and I am disappointed that you
don't see the seriousness of it all.
It reminds me of the Taliban and the treatment of their women, and how they
were
betrayed by the Femminists and Western Culture.
cheers
"Glam" <glamar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1194383157.0...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
bruno Tonon
You are a hypocrite and sychophant and probably a latent
misogenist.
You have shown your true colours.
cheers
"HAPPYsamurai" <profst...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1194393421.2...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
bruno Tonon
Now that you know what are you going to do about it????
Read what Eldon said to Cody, and measure it against what the "Jinn"
said in Forum.
The "Jinn" would have been sacked had he spoken to a client like that.
Doesn;t your conscience tell you something is amiss here????
Just wondering??
cheers
Glam
Let's not even go into what Tex says to women. Go back and read some
of the "discussions" I've had here with a number of men. Where's your
outrage about all that?
Yours in sisterhood,
Glam
On Nov 7, 3:52 am, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> Sorry Glam but I don't see the fun.
>
> An attack on Cody is an attack on all women.
>
> I'm sorry you don't see it that way, and I am disappointed that you
> don't see the seriousness of it all.
>
> It reminds me of the Taliban and the treatment of their women, and how they
> were
> betrayed by the Femminists and Western Culture.
>
> cheers
>
> "Glam" <glamarama...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Tex
> But Bruno, you attack women here all the time, especially Serena.
> Let's not even go into what Tex says to women. Go back and read some
> of the "discussions" I've had here with a number of men. Where's your
> outrage about all that?
Has anyone ever suggested you get "gang banged by the brothas?"
Bruno is talking about Eldon's both sexist and racist comments.
Are you OK with that?
Eldon
> LOL.
Well hey,
I haven't yet performed genital mutilation on Cody with a buzz saw,
electric knife or any other means... right?
She didn't circumcise me against my will, so we're more or less even.
Aren't we?
Sticks, stones, buzz saws, electric knives and power lawnmowers may be
injurious, but words....
Go read Stephen King's next few novels and get back to me. Or the
recent English language translation of MIchel Houellebecq's book about
H.P. Lovecraft:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1497922,00.html
As for Lovecraft, he was more than a little fed up. In 1908 at the age
of 18, he suffered what has been described as a "nervous breakdown"
and plummeted into a lethargy that lasted about 10 years. At the age
when his old classmates were hurriedly turning their backs on
childhood and diving into life as into some marvellous, uncensored
adventure, he cloistered himself at home, speaking only to his mother,
refusing to get up all day, wandering about in a dressing gown all
night.
What's more, he wasn't even writing.
What was he doing? Reading a little, maybe. We can't even be sure of
this. In fact, his biographers have had to admit they don't know much
at all, and that, judging from appearances - at least between the ages
of 18 and 23 - he did absolutely nothing.
Then, between 1913 and 1918, very slowly, the situation improved.
Gradually, he re-established contact with the human race. It was not
easy. In May 1918 he wrote to Alfred Galpin: "I am only about half
alive - a large part of my strength is consumed in sitting up or
walking. My nervous system is a shattered wreck and I am absolutely
bored and listless save when I come upon something which peculiarly
interests me."
------
Sounds a bit like Byron Katie, non? I'll be she could write some real
good horror stories.
Eldon
> Sorry Glam but I don't see the fun.
>
> An attack on Cody is an attack on all women.
Not really, but it is interesting that you see fit to generalize,
Bruno.
So... LET'S GET THIS REAL CLEAR, OK?
I'm attacking Cody's mentality, not her clitoris.
She is what I think I can legitimately call an intellectual slut.
Chis's erstwhile blond shared sexual object, Susan Reno, of Internet
video fame, would surely agree at least to the extent that she says
she likes multiple Big Black Dicks gang-banging her.
And Chris fell for that, right?
It went something like, "Gangs of black guys know how to treat me like
the slut I enjoy being...." It's straight out of the worst scenarios
of the Ku Klux Klan. Or something like that, in the back of a mini van
or something. If it wasn't important, it wouldn't be a genre. Excuse
me!
I mean, it's not exactly what most would call sophisticated
"content."
Chris brought it up as an example of the "liberation" he achieved from
Landmark. I didn't bring it up, and I'm not impressed. Are you? Watch
the video and critique his performance.
He obviously knows how to "share," though.
"Your turn on da white bitch, bro."
>
> I'm sorry you don't see it that way, and I am disappointed that you
> don't see the seriousness of it all.
>
> It reminds me of the Taliban and the treatment of their women, and how they
> were
> betrayed by the Femminists and Western Culture.
>
> cheers
>
> "Glam" <glamarama...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Caligari
> "patrick_darcy" <patrickda...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:472fe6ed$0$25630$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> > bruno Tonon wrote:
>
> >> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman implies and leads to supporting
> >> the
> >> barbaric customs of many
>
> >> devoloping countries. Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all
> >> you need is love"
>
> > i have no clue to what u are talking about.
> > please explain how my signature has anything to do with what u have
> > posted.
> > thanks.
>
> Pretty simple Patrick,
>
> You have ranted endelessly about "The Jinn" using foul language and yet when
> Cody gets abused by Eldon's using foul language you remain as silent as a
> poor
> church mouse. Whats wrong with you are you gutless????
> Is the Jinn more important than Cody ????
I don't care much for gin myself. But some would take to it more than
Cody ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin
Eldon
> "Glam" <glamarama...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > But Bruno, you attack women here all the time, especially Serena.
> > Let's not even go into what Tex says to women. Go back and read some
> > of the "discussions" I've had here with a number of men. Where's your
> > outrage about all that?
>
> Has anyone ever suggested you get "gang banged by the brothas?"
No, no one has suggested this to anyone.
On the other hand, it seems that Chris and a few of his brothas gang-
banged Susan Reno as a performance for public viewing on her family
website. It appears that her getting gang-banged by a bunch of black
studs is the website's niche marketing concept. And it appears that
Chris bragged about it on this discussion group as one example of how
his participation in Landmark Forum liberated his thinking or
encouraged his adventurous spirit or whatever it did.
Hey Chris, you never told us how much you got paid for your stellar
performance. Do you think you should have been paid more considering
how much the home business production studio made by selling
memberships and DVDs?
Do y'all feel exploited? Silly boys. Maybe you should start a union.
> ...
>
> read more »
Tex
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1194454712....@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 7, 3:47 pm, "Tex" <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Glam" <glamarama...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194445351.4...@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > But Bruno, you attack women here all the time, especially Serena.
> > Let's not even go into what Tex says to women. Go back and read some
> > of the "discussions" I've had here with a number of men. Where's your
> > outrage about all that?
>
> Has anyone ever suggested you get "gang banged by the brothas?"
But you suggested just that to Cody, didn't you?
this is what you said, Eldon.
Blablablablah... you ignorant bitch.
This is really insulting. Kids get their arms chopped off in Rwanda
and you defend the Hunger Project ripoff enterprise and so on.
Slut.
Chris and his brothas may give you a gang-bang if you keep this up. Or maybe
not.
Do you desire his big, black NYC dick plowing yer submissive white pussy?
Just wondered, Cody.<end of Eldon's sexist and racist screed>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Eldon
So enjoy the latest in Internet reality, "Tex" -- you anonymous
troll.
Check out SusanReno.com and get back to us about the latest about
barbaric attacks on women, aesthetics, or anything else cutting edge
in the way of porno.
How about a live broadcast from a Tijuana donkey show. Do you think
that might go over? There's probably a market for it.
Just directing your attention to the ~possibility~.
Maybe Susan Reno's husband should add a donkey website. Or maybe one
with chimpanzees or dogs doing his wife? There are lots of niche
marketing possibilities, you know.
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
> ...
>
> read more »
Glam
> "Glam" <glamarama...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
> > But Bruno, you attack women here all the time, especially Serena.
> > Let's not even go into what Tex says to women. Go back and read some
> > of the "discussions" I've had here with a number of men. Where's your
> > outrage about all that?
>
> Has anyone ever suggested you get "gang banged by the brothas?"
> Bruno is talking about Eldon's both sexist and racist comments.
> Are you OK with that?
>
>
Cody's been dabbling in Scientology too, no? They're even worse.
Apparently you're OK with that, though, because you've been defending
them obsessively for some time now.
Glam
> ...
>
> read more »
HAPPYsamurai
> Happ do me a favour don't ever mention Ethics again.
> You are a hypocrite and sychophant and probably a latent
> misogenist.
not at all
i agree eldon's behavior was impolite whether directed at a male or a
female -
.... Is this issue primarily about politeness and social ettiquette or
about ethics
please DEFINE the issues as you see them
-- for me Cody KNOWS this is an UNMODERATED group - she has done many
courses and is aware of the context of personal responsibility and
libertarian status quo realities
as a Female spiritual seeker I assume she has it within her power to
ask us to talk at a level of politeness she is comfortable with -
she's owns a GUN - i assume she is NOT a shy girly girl [tho correct
me if I'm wrong]
having said that - Eldon used a strategy like fair game - a strategy
applied to other s by the group Cody was defending - ie CoS
To me it would be hypocritical of Cody [whether male or female] not to
accept the very strategy she gives tacit approval to by stepping up
and Defending CoS - being used on her - so she can EXPERIENTIALLY know
what it feels like - even tho her SEX would normally preclued this -
[unless she was a scientologist?]
if you think that is harsh Bruno
then let remind you - the concpt of" taking personal responsibility
for this situation" suggests
1 it is no use whinning after the fact - as Tex would say - the past
is dead get over it
2 if you really think this behavior is inappropriate then start a
group where this behavior is unacceptable - take a proactive effective
action to prevent this happenning again ... use the motivation and
take affirmative effective action to prevent - this without the need
to lay blame on the past
3 - if you want to challenge my ethics - then pray tell - what is it
that an ethical peson does it a situation like this
the only thing i can tell you for sure - is tho ethics and politeness
sometimes OVERLAP - thay are NOT one and the same
ethics says - live by the ettiquette of the group
1 since this is an "international forum" it would be IMPOLITE to force
anyone to live by another societies customs
2 this is an "unmoderated forum" - if there is a FAQ with the
etiquette for this group PLEASE post it
3 - i am open to discussing plans for an AFL etiquette if you wish -
so we can prevent this happening again...
4 - if it appeases your sensitivities i am welcome to the idea of
personally rebuking Eldon - and I am watching with interest to see the
Patented Bruno Tonon Laurence Endorsed brand of love and forgiveness
that we have been hearing about
5 - should we FORGIVE Eldon - should we forgive L Ron Hubbard for
creating the strategy of fair game and writting it into the tennets of
scientology
who should we forgive more - Eldon or L Ron ?
Tex
> On Nov 7, 6:40 pm, "Tex" <ritter_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> So enjoy the latest in Internet reality, "Tex" -- you anonymous
> troll.
>
> Check out SusanReno.com and get back to us about the latest about
> barbaric attacks on women, aesthetics, or anything else cutting edge
> in the way of porno.
>
> How about a live broadcast from a Tijuana donkey show. Do you think
> that might go over? There's probably a market for it.
>
> Just directing your attention to the ~possibility~.
>
> Maybe Susan Reno's husband should add a donkey website. Or maybe one
> with chimpanzees or dogs doing his wife? There are lots of niche marketing possibilities, you know.
LOL!!!
Looks like someone missed snack time!!!!
Or medication time.
One of the two.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
patrick_darcy
maybe cody and eldon can both come together in a thread and we
can discuss what has happened.
>>>> Love is all u need. Love is all u need. Love is all u need.
Tex
> bruno Tonon wrote:
>
> > "patrick_darcy" <patrickda...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:47310367$0$16485$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> >> bruno Tonon wrote:
>
I'll try to arrange a conference call with Dr. Phil for a little
"intervention."
Alert the media.
> >>>> Love is all u need. Love is all u need. Love is all u need.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Serena Nordstrup
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194423228.1...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 6, 4:43 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
>
> > What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some off-
> > color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par for
> > the course round these parts.
To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? Name-calling and insults
happen frequently here on alt.fan.landmark. Just this time it seems
that a female defender of newage wishywashiness copped the storm for a
change.
> I can't believe that you of all people would not stand up for Cody and
> the way she was spoken to. Thats never happened in this group before.
>
> Why would you not make a stand for being spoken to like that????
> Especially to another sister, an intelligent one at that who has an opinion
> and arguments to back that up.
>
> You don't have to agree with Cody but at least use your rationality,
> looooogic and questions you are so fond of to bolster your point of view.
>
> Nuh drinks are off again Serena.
>
> Too disappointed in your gutless behaviour, especially to a sister.
>
> cheers
You seem to have archaic/fixed views on gender-roles and appropriate
behavior, Bruno. ~landmark~ coursework had the ~possibility~ of
shaking you out of that restrictive sort of attitude. Ah, well..
> >> implies and leads to supporting the barbaric customs of many
> >> devoloping countries.
>
> > How so? Explain the connection, please!
Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno.
> > And which developing countries? How many? Do you regard Egypt as a
> > developing country?
Do you regard Egypt as a developing country, Bruno?
> >> Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all you
> >> need is love"
>
> >> complimentary closes and Happ's Ethical values.
>
> >> Is this what the silent ladies in the group sanction.
>
> >> Just wondering.
>
> >> In my youth there was more respect for women and its a sad state of
> >> affairs
> >> when we go backwards towards latent misogyny .
>
> > You ~experienced~ your youth as a golden age. Funny, that.
Slipperily and slimily
Serena
bruno Tonon
You are a psychologist, an Ex Avatar leader, an Author and you have a
College degree
or degrees, with many life experiences behind you.
If you are attacking Cody's mentality, why not use your intelligence to blow
her arguments out of the water.
Surely you don't have to resort to sexist?racist language to make your
point????
It's never been done before in this group of company, and I believe it
lowers
the tone of the debate to basic street talk.
I just thought you had more to offer as I've allways read most of your
Emails
with interest.
You call her an intellectual slut just because she is well read, assertive
and
educated?????
So what could I call Ellen, Glam or Serena for that matter using those
sexist terms??? Can you help me here?????
Serena Gets under my skin and I can't handle her as she is just too
Loooogical
and asks to many pertinent questions I just don't have an answer for.
So what can I start calling her????????
Cheers
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1194450552....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
bruno Tonon
> On Nov 7, 9:47 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1194423228.1...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Nov 6, 4:43 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
>>
>> > What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some off-
>> > color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par for
>> > the course round these parts.
>
> To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? Name-calling and insults
> happen frequently here on alt.fan.landmark. Just this time it seems
> that a female defender of newage wishywashiness copped the storm for a
> change.
Well if it seems normal to you to speak to Cody in those sexist /racist
terms
I had better sharpen my sexist/racist vocabularly to express my
frustrations
on you and some of your insipid remarks and questions you ask.
I have asked Eldon for some help here as I am not used to using these
off-color
suggestions and the rather blue questions you are so comfortable with.
May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice Serena?????
Just wondering how you would feel about that????
Who knows it may help you to confront the Auditing session in Melbourne
that I have booked for you.
cheers
Serena Nordstrup
> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194507047.2...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Nov 7, 9:47 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1194423228.1...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Nov 6, 4:43 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> >> >> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
>
> >> > What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some off-
> >> > color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par for
> >> > the course round these parts.
>
> > To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? Name-calling and insults
> > happen frequently here on alt.fan.landmark. Just this time it seems
> > that a female defender of newage wishywashiness copped the storm for a
> > change.
To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? What do you find gross
about such so-called "attacks"?
> Well if it seems normal to you
If so, yes; if not, no.
> to speak to Cody in those sexist /racist terms
What terms? Where have I addressed our esteemed Cody using sexist and/
or racist terminology?
> I had better sharpen my sexist/racist vocabularly
non sequitur.
> to express my frustrations
> on you and some of your insipid remarks and questions you ask.
Why pick on me? again? Do you regard me as just another convenient
female punch-bag?
> I have asked Eldon for some help here as I am not used to using these
> off-color
> suggestions and the rather blue questions you are so comfortable with.
If you can't handle matters yourself, by all means ask for help.
> May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice Serena?????
Huh?
> Just wondering how you would feel about that????
A fount of wonderment, our Bruno...
> Who knows it may help you to confront the Auditing session in Melbourne
> that I have booked for you.
>
> cheers
>
>
>
> >> I can't believe that you of all people would not stand up for Cody and
> >> the way she was spoken to. Thats never happened in this group before.
>
> >> Why would you not make a stand for being spoken to like that????
> >> Especially to another sister, an intelligent one at that who has an
> >> opinion
> >> and arguments to back that up.
>
> >> You don't have to agree with Cody but at least use your rationality,
> >> looooogic and questions you are so fond of to bolster your point of
> >> view.
>
> >> Nuh drinks are off again Serena.
>
> >> Too disappointed in your gutless behaviour, especially to a sister.
>
> >> cheers
>
> > You seem to have archaic/fixed views on gender-roles and appropriate
> > behavior, Bruno. ~landmark~ coursework had the ~possibility~ of
> > shaking you out of that restrictive sort of attitude. Ah, well..
>
> >> >> implies and leads to supporting the barbaric customs of many
> >> >> devoloping countries.
>
> >> > How so? Explain the connection, please!
>
> > Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
> > and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno.
Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno. Does this
sort of thing happen often?
bruno Tonon
> On Nov 10, 1:04 am, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1194507047.2...@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 7, 9:47 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> "Serena Nordstrup" <s_nordst...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1194423228.1...@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Nov 6, 4:43 pm, "bruno Tonon" <bto...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> >> Gross attacks on Cody as a woman
>>
>> >> > What gross attacks? -- I've seen a couple of name-callings, some
>> >> > off-
>> >> > color suggestions and a few rather blue questions. Pretty much par
>> >> > for
>> >> > the course round these parts.
>>
>> > To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? Name-calling and insults
>> > happen frequently here on alt.fan.landmark. Just this time it seems
>> > that a female defender of newage wishywashiness copped the storm for a
>> > change.
>
> To which "gross attacks" do you refer, Bruno? What do you find gross
> about such so-called "attacks"?
Simpatice Serena what you call " copped the storm for a change"
Eldon called
"Slut.
Chris and his brothas may give you a gang-bang if you keep this up. Or maybe
not.
Do you desire his big, black NYC dick plowing yer submissive white pussy?
"
So you think its fine that Eldon addresses Cody in these sexist racists
terms.
>
>> Well if it seems normal to you
>
> If so, yes; if not, no.
>
>> to speak to Cody in those sexist /racist terms
>
> What terms? Where have I addressed our esteemed Cody using sexist and/
> or racist terminology?
Always ready to answer questions and stick to the topic
>
>> I had better sharpen my sexist/racist vocabularly
>
> non sequitur.
>
>> to express my frustrations
>> on you and some of your insipid remarks and questions you ask.
>
> Why pick on me? again? Do you regard me as just another convenient
> female punch-bag?
Not at all. I regard your loooogic and questions insipid.
>
>> I have asked Eldon for some help here as I am not used to using these
>> off-color
>> suggestions and the rather blue questions you are so comfortable with.
>
> If you can't handle matters yourself, by all means ask for help.
>
>> May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice Serena?????
>
> Huh?
Why 'HuH?
I am using your language Serena. " copped the storm of change " are your
words.
I ask you again . May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice
Serena??????
Are you comfortable with that, and is this the way you like to be
treated????
>
>> Just wondering how you would feel about that????
>
> A fount of wonderment, our Bruno...
Not at all . Just trying to come to terms how all of you "sistas" abandoned
Cody in time of need just to win an argument.
Sad state of affairs Simpatice , Somophorically , serena.
>
>> Who knows it may help you to confront the Auditing session in Melbourne
>> that I have booked for you.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> >> I can't believe that you of all people would not stand up for Cody and
>> >> the way she was spoken to. Thats never happened in this group before.
>>
>> >> Why would you not make a stand for being spoken to like that????
>> >> Especially to another sister, an intelligent one at that who has an
>> >> opinion
>> >> and arguments to back that up.
>>
>> >> You don't have to agree with Cody but at least use your rationality,
>> >> looooogic and questions you are so fond of to bolster your point of
>> >> view.
>>
>> >> Nuh drinks are off again Serena.
>>
>> >> Too disappointed in your gutless behaviour, especially to a sister.
>>
>> >> cheers
>>
>> > You seem to have archaic/fixed views on gender-roles and appropriate
>> > behavior, Bruno. ~landmark~ coursework had the ~possibility~ of
>> > shaking you out of that restrictive sort of attitude. Ah, well..
So your new AGe acceptance of sexist/racist language is okay to taunt
when you can't find the words or arguments to answer an articulate, well
read opponent such as Cody.
You and Mother Hubard seem to leave Cody alone whenever she expressed
her perceptions and experiences in the lgat groups she had once belonged
to.
It seems she was well prepared and articul;ate enough to keep you both at
bay.
Funny that
Huh????
>>
>> >> >> implies and leads to supporting the barbaric customs of many
>> >> >> devoloping countries.
>>
>> >> > How so? Explain the connection, please!
>>
>> > Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
>> > and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno.
>
> Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
> and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno. Does this
> sort of thing happen often?
>
>> >> > And which developing countries? How many? Do you regard Egypt as a
>> >> > developing country?
>>
>> > Do you regard Egypt as a developing country, Bruno?
>
> Do you regard Egypt as a developing country, Bruno?
>
>> >> >> Is that what you stand for Patrick with your " all you
>> >> >> need is love"
>>
>> >> >> complimentary closes and Happ's Ethical values.
>>
>> >> >> Is this what the silent ladies in the group sanction.
>>
>> >> >> Just wondering.
>>
>> >> >> In my youth there was more respect for women and its a sad state of
>> >> >> affairs
>> >> >> when we go backwards towards latent misogyny .
>>
>> >> > You ~experienced~ your youth as a golden age. Funny, that.
So what Age can you link to your youth???? The euchred one?????
Sad state of affairs........... hmmmmmm
>>
>> > Slipperily and slimily
>> > Serena
>
>
patrick_darcy
maybe u can start by not doing it yourself ?
--
HAPPYsamurai
>
> Please explain the connection whereby salty language allegedly implies
> and leads to the customs of developing countries, Bruno. Does this
> sort of thing happen often?
>
you only have to look at Australia
the use of salty language there lead to the bizarre custom - where it
was illegal to shoot kangaroos before it was illegal to shoot
aboriginies
power of sanctity of human life -- 0
power of salty language -- 1
Serena Nordstrup
Oh, that!
Eldon has explained the "slut" name-calling. Other wise he posed a
couple of hypotheticals (~possibilities~) and asked a question. No
harm done. -- Where do you get all the sexist/racist paranoia? Which
words do you see as "gross attacks"?
> So you think its fine that Eldon addresses Cody in these sexist racists
> terms.
Eldon has played with ~possibility~, following up from previous
~conversations~. I can handle a whiff of rosenbergist ~possibility~.
You? Did you find your own participation in our recent "mindfuck"
discussion distasteful?
> >> Well if it seems normal to you
>
> > If so, yes; if not, no.
>
> >> to speak to Cody in those sexist /racist terms
>
> > What terms? Where have I addressed our esteemed Cody using sexist and/
> > or racist terminology?
>
> Always ready to answer questions and stick to the topic
To return to the topic: where have I addressed our esteemed Cody using
sexist and/
or racist terminology, Bruno?
> >> I had better sharpen my sexist/racist vocabularly
>
> > non sequitur.
>
> >> to express my frustrations
> >> on you and some of your insipid remarks and questions you ask.
>
> > Why pick on me? again? Do you regard me as just another convenient
> > female punch-bag?
>
> Not at all. I regard your loooogic and questions insipid.
Invent and preach a better logick, then. And ban questions if you
dare.
> >> I have asked Eldon for some help here as I am not used to using these
> >> off-color
> >> suggestions and the rather blue questions you are so comfortable with.
>
> > If you can't handle matters yourself, by all means ask for help.
>
> >> May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice Serena?????
>
> > Huh?
>
> Why 'HuH?
Incomprehension. (Tex will fix it.)
> I am using your language Serena. " copped the storm of change " are your
> words.
OK. Spot where you wrenched them out of context.
> I ask you again . May I thrust and cop the storm of change on you Simpatice
> Serena??????
You'll have to explain the use if "on" to me, Bruno.
> Are you comfortable with that, and is this the way you like to be
> treated????
You'll have to explain the use if "on" to me, Bruno, if you haven't
already.
> >> Just wondering how you would feel about that????
>
> > A fount of wonderment, our Bruno...
>
> Not at all . Just trying to come to terms how all of you "sistas" abandoned
> Cody in time of need just to win an argument.
> Sad state of affairs Simpatice , Somophorically , serena.
You stlll exhibit this pre-judgment about the way I should (in your
eyes) behave. On what grounds?
> >> Who knows it may help you to confront the Auditing session in Melbourne
> >> that I have booked for you.
>
> >> cheers
>
> >> >> I can't believe that you of all people would not stand up for Cody and
> >> >> the way she was spoken to. Thats never happened in this group before.
>
> >> >> Why would you not make a stand for being spoken to like that????
> >> >> Especially to another sister, an intelligent one at that who has an
> >> >> opinion
> >> >> and arguments to back that up.
>
> >> >> You don't have to agree with Cody but at least use your rationality,
> >> >> looooogic and questions you are so fond of to bolster your point of
> >> >> view.
>
> >> >> Nuh drinks are off again Serena.
>
> >> >> Too disappointed in your gutless behaviour, especially to a sister.
>
> >> >> cheers
>
> >> > You seem to have archaic/fixed views on gender-roles and appropriate
> >> > behavior, Bruno. ~landmark~ coursework had the ~possibility~ of
> >> > shaking you out of that restrictive sort of attitude. Ah, well..
>
> So your new AGe acceptance of sexist/racist language is okay to taunt
> when you can't find the words or arguments to answer an articulate, well
> read opponent such as Cody.
Lost count of the non-sequiturs at this point...
> You and Mother Hubard seem to leave Cody alone whenever she expressed
> her perceptions and experiences in the lgat groups she had once belonged
> to.
> It seems she was well prepared and articul;ate enough to keep you both at
> bay.
> Funny that
>
> Huh????
You appear to have uncovered the Secret of the Universe here, Bruno:
people don't always fight merely at your baiting. Will you write a
book revealing this Secret?
I'll need to add that to my cosmogony.