Mike Mauer and Peter Monk
computeruser
From:
http://www.forumgrads.org/Werner6.htm
"Sixth and last in a series of articles on Werner's Sources based on Werner
Erhard by W. W. Barltey III"
"In April 1969, Werner resigned from Parents Magazine to become a division
manager for the Grolier Society.
Two years before the founding of est, Werner's friend Mike Maurer learned
about Scientology. Mike introduced Scientology member Peter Monk and Werner.
Although he knew nothing about Scientology, Werner agreed to have a
Scientology communication course presented to his staff at Grolier. His
conclusion--"The course was brilliant."
Werner then read several books by Ron Hubbard and took courses at the
Scientology organization progressing through five Scientology levels."
**********************************************
and from:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/door2.html
"A Door to Door Mind Salesman
by Stephen Pressman
from the book Outrageous Betrayal published by St. Martin's Press
Copyright © 1993 Stephen Pressman
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even as he continued to explore with Erhard the intricacies of Scientology,
Peter Monk read with curiosity a local newspaper ad in the fall of 1970 for
a lecture that was to be given about a program called Mind Dynamics. He tore
out the ad and showed it to Erhard, who instantly seemed interested. Mind
Dynamics, as it turned out, was about to lead to a much more rewarding
opportunity than Scientology for an ambitious and charismatic salesman named
Werner Erhard.
Launched in the Bay Area only a few months earlier, Mind Dynamics was the
hybrid creation of Alexander Everett, a former English schoolmaster whose
own fascination with mind-cure principles had begun in the 1950s, when he
worked in Kansas City for one of the Unity Schools of Christianity, a
mind-cure offshoot. From there Everett had wandered down to Texas, where he
found work as an assistant principal at an exclusive private school in Fort
Worth. It was in Texas that Everett ran across a man named Jose Silva who
years earlier had concocted something called Mind Control that purported to
teach its adherents over the course of four twelve-hour sessions how to
relax and harness the power of their minds. By controlling the brain's alpha
waves, Mind Control held out the promise of extraordinary results, from
waking up without an alarm clock to ridding the body of dangerously
addictive habits. "
*************************************************
Peter monk is mentioned on this page as being around Harry Palmer's Avatar
Courses:
http://www.scientology-kills.org/avatarpg1.htm
"It sounded fair enough to me, so I signed up with about 20 other people.
Just about all were former Scientologists, including a number of local
luminaries. One was Peter Monk, the man who had first introduced Werner
Erhard to Scientology shortly before Erhard developed the est course. "
************************************************
DEATH METAL JUNKIE
Dianetics, and to be quite honest, I don't see a lot of similarities, although
I must say that Hubbards views are fascinating, and I believe that when applied
they would work. The real question of course that I would like to know is, in
Scientology, is there an emphasis on SPACE and it's creation, etc.? Thanks.
"You know, the trouble with real life is, there's no 'danger music'..." - Chip
Douglas, the Cable Guy
computeruser
news:20040316231628...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Dianetics is too long. If you must read Hubbard read "The Dynamics of Life"
I was told it is what is essential in the process of "auditing". Reviewing
past experiences for triggers, etc. It is much shorter than Dianetics, maybe
1/4 its size.
I have no idea how much you know or don't know about the CO$. I think chris,
Fred, patrick and I all visted CO$ offices some time in the past 20 or so
years.
Ellen has felt first hand the extreme hardships this organization can
inflict.
computeruser
black_ice
JUNKIE <drsmi...@aol.com> wrote:
> I am also trying to gain a peripheral understanding of Scientology by reading
> Dianetics, and to be quite honest, I don't see a lot of similarities, although
> I must say that Hubbards views are fascinating, and I believe that when
> applied
> they would work. The real question of course that I would like to know is, in
> Scientology, is there an emphasis on SPACE and it's creation, etc.? Thanks.
IMO, the emphasis in Scientology is on "completion" or being at peace
with your past. Hubbard believes that your present actions or inactions
are directed by your past experiences and your survival reactions to
them. If you're able to reexperience your memories fully and remove
their "charge", you (in a way) discharge their influence over your
mind. The memories are still there but they have no power over you.
He created his own terms for these memories and the processes for
discharging them (Engrams, auditing, clearing).
I enjoyed parts of "Dianetics, MSMH" but a lot of it is over the top.
Some of it makes perfect sense.
I actually read it just after the est Training while enrolled in an est
Seminar so comparisons with est were inevitable. I wasn't moved to
join the CO$.
Say Bass, I have a little "est" question for you just to see how far
along you've come.
"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"
There is no wrong answer but there is a single correct answer.
--
"I'm not OK. You're not OK. But hey, that's OK."
William Gibson
BASS GUITAR GOD
>Fred, patrick and I all visted CO$ offices some time in the past 20 or so
>years.
>Ellen has felt first hand the extreme hardships this organization can
>inflict.
>
Everything I have read supports this. However, you know that I am not
neccessarily interested in organizations or churches, but I AM interested in
thier technologies and teachings.
BASS GUITAR GOD
>with your past. Hubbard believes that your present actions or inactions
>are directed by your past experiences and your survival reactions to
>them. If you're able to reexperience your memories fully and remove
>their "charge", you (in a way) discharge their influence over your
>mind. The memories are still there but they have no power over you.
Does this sound far fetched at all? I don't think so! As a matter of fact, the
late Dr. David Viscott, when asked in an interview "What are the cause of
people's (psychological) problems?", he replied "The cause peoples problems is
when somebody hurts you (intentionally or unintentionally), and you do not
confront them and tell them they've hurt you". It was just that cut and dry.
>Say Bass, I have a little "est" question for you just to see how far
>along you've come.
>
>"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"
The sound of pages turning a porn magazine (with the free hand, of course..).
Ellenestnot
(snip)
> Fred, patrick and I all visted CO$ offices some time in the past 20 or so
> years.
> Ellen has felt first hand the extreme hardships this organization can
> inflict.
>
> computeruser
Only "secondhand," CU.
Never participated in any way. Never crossed the threshold of
an "org." (Another of my brothers did "infiltrate" the big blue
building in order to sabotage them and managed to make quite a
nuisance of himself. Heheheheeee)
Never ~experienced~ myself......funny how no one here challenges
my opinion or the validity of my comments regarding the Co$ or
L. Ron Hubbard.
If you can read more than one page on any of the garbage that
pulp hound put out, you have a lot more persistance than I do.
It is the most boring writing you can imagine and the thought
and/or "theory" behind it could be summmed up in one page.
His writing only serves to irritate anyone with any intelligence.
Maybe that is how they weed out those who wouldn't make good
robots due to curiosity or imagination. Maybe that is how they
"find" their target audience, though surely there are a few
with intelligence and imagination who slip throough the cracks.
Maybe those are the most susceptible to hypnotism and by the
time they figure it out they are in too deep to extract themselves
without destroying their lives or careers. One wonders how they
silenced Nicole Kidman. (Probably some threat involving her
kids.)
Oh, and BGG:
Everything that Werner Erhard included in his own "training"
regarding communication, acknowledgment, agreement, and
responsibility came directly from scientology.
Ellen
Siam
>From: depro...@MailandNews.com (Ellenestnot)
>Date: 3/17/2004 10:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <2b04d629.04031...@posting.google.com>
>
> Never ~experienced~ myself......funny how no one here challenges
> my opinion or the validity of my comments regarding the Co$ or
> L. Ron Hubbard.
Why would you find that funny?
Most people here (or anywhere) know very little about Scientology.
This is a board about Landmark.
However, the lack of anybody challenging you definitely doesn't mean what you
write about Scientology is correct.
Cheers
>
>> Ellen
>
>
>
>
>
>
BASS GUITAR GOD
>
> Everything that Werner Erhard included in his own "training"
> regarding communication, acknowledgment, agreement, and
> responsibility came directly from scientology.
>
Thank you Ellen,
But those aren't the things that interest me most. I like the thing about
CREATING SPACE, and creating things in THE SPACE... ever since I've discovered
this, I find that it is a lot easier for me to do things and I get a lot more
done.
BASS GUITAR GOD
A "board"?
computeruser
"Ellenestnot" <depro...@MailandNews.com> wrote in message
news:2b04d629.04031...@posting.google.com...
> "computeruser" <cyrano.69.@.NOSPAM.people.pc.communistbastardsGOAWAY>
wrote in message news:<4058337e$0$82251$a046...@nnrp.fuse.net>...
> (snip)
> > I have no idea how much you know or don't know about the CO$. I think
chris,
> > Fred, patrick and I all visted CO$ offices some time in the past 20 or
so
> > years.
> > Ellen has felt first hand the extreme hardships this organization can
> > inflict.
> >
> > computeruser
>
>
>
> Only "secondhand," CU.
>
>
> Never participated in any way. Never crossed the threshold of
> an "org." (Another of my brothers did "infiltrate" the big blue
> building in order to sabotage them and managed to make quite a
> nuisance of himself. Heheheheeee)
I stand by first-hand. I meant: I understand that you on a personal level
felt hardship inflicted on your family by CO$.
> Never ~experienced~ myself......funny how no one here challenges
> my opinion or the validity of my comments regarding the Co$ or
> L. Ron Hubbard.
>
> If you can read more than one page on any of the garbage that
> pulp hound put out, you have a lot more persistance than I do.
> It is the most boring writing you can imagine and the thought
> and/or "theory" behind it could be summmed up in one page.
> His writing only serves to irritate anyone with any intelligence.
> Maybe that is how they weed out those who wouldn't make good
> robots due to curiosity or imagination. Maybe that is how they
> "find" their target audience, though surely there are a few
> with intelligence and imagination who slip throough the cracks.
> Maybe those are the most susceptible to hypnotism and by the
> time they figure it out they are in too deep to extract themselves
> without destroying their lives or careers. One wonders how they
> silenced Nicole Kidman. (Probably some threat involving her
> kids.)
>
>
> Oh, and BGG:
>
> Everything that Werner Erhard included in his own "training"
> regarding communication, acknowledgment, agreement, and
> responsibility came directly from scientology.
>
> Ellen
I question "everything" and I question "directly" in the statement above.
As I understand it Mike Maurer and Peter Monk were filters as they were well
versed in the scientology material. They repackaged and reworded what made
sense at the time for the est training. They may have gotten some guidance
from some est staff that had also been trained in scientology. Werner one
could only surmise had some say as to what he wanted from them and what
parts of CO$ may have been applicable to the est training as it was
evolving.
"Direct" would imply they were actually doing CO$ work or using copyrighted
material such that LRH would have a legal claim, which has never been
substantiated.
Maybe I am just picking nits.
*******
http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the facts
Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of
all points of view.
Arguments from authority carry little weight (in science there are no
"authorities").
Spin more than one hypothesis - don't simply run with the first idea that
caught your fancy.
Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours.
Quantify, wherever possible.
If there is a chain of argument every link in the chain must work.
"Occam's razor" - if there are two hypothesis that explain the data equally
well choose the simpler.
Ask whether the hypothesis can, at least in principle, be falsified (shown
to be false by some unambiguous test). In other words, it is testable? Can
others duplicate the experiment and get the same result?
*******
computeruser
> Ellen
Ellenestnot
> > Oh, and BGG:
> >
> > Everything that Werner Erhard included in his own "training"
> > regarding communication, acknowledgment, agreement, and
> > responsibility came directly from scientology.
> >
>
> Thank you Ellen,
> But those aren't the things that interest me most. I like the thing about
> CREATING SPACE, and creating things in THE SPACE... ever since I've discovered
> this, I find that it is a lot easier for me to do things and I get a lot more
> done.
I'm not sure where the "creating space" bit came from but it
may have been the relaxation techniques which were modeled after
the Mind Dynamics group meditations which were themselves adapted
from Alexander Everett's hypnotic inductions used in the
Christian Unity Church for such things as "psychic healing."
They began with phrases such as: "find a space in your left foot.."
It also may have roots in the Zen practice of acceptance and
"letting be" though Werner Erhard was no Zen scholar and only
"adopted" some of what he heard listening to Alan Watts on the
radio.
As an aside, L. Ron Hubbard also formulated his programs
using large chunks of Eastern wisdom. As he professed,
"scientology's closest spiritual ties with any other religion
are with Orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism with which it shares an
historical lineage."*
In addition to the above, all est "concepts" using the words
"upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
Ellen
*from a 1967 bulletin, "Religious Philosophy and Religious
Practice."
black_ice
Ellenestnot <depro...@MailandNews.com> wrote:
Werner actually knew Watts. I think they met initially at Esalen. I
don't know if they were friends but they met many times. see
http://skepdic.com/est.html
and http://laurenceplatt.home.att.net/wernererhard/100panew.html
"Prior to formulating the magnum opus of his work, Werner attended
seminars given by Alan Watts, the erstwhile Episcopalian priest who
laid bare the essence of Zen for the western world. Zen is arguably
"the" discipline which created the space for the breakthrough which is
Werner's work. Yet Alan Watts himself made complete light of fidelity,
and even took great pride in his many infidelities. Like I said,
anything is possible."
It may not have been Werner who told the story of Watts showing up
after an invitation and being asked by the host if he'd like a drink,
"Make it a vodka on the rocks". As the host walked to the liquor
cabinet he recalled thinking, "Here's this Zen master in my living room
and I'm serving him a vodka on the rocks. Is that the drink of choice
of the enlightened?"
also see http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults9.htm
Arion: A Journal of Humanities and the Classics
9. The Rise of New Age
"After Madame Blavatsky, the most important architect of sixties-to-New
Age thought was George Gurdjieff (18661949). Gurdjieff was a
half-Greek Armenian who arrived in Moscow in 1913 and claimed to have
spent twenty years gathering esoteric spiritualist knowledge from Mecca
to Tibet. As a refugee in France after the Russian Revolution,
Gurdjieff created his łFourth Way,˛ a mixture of Tantric Buddhism,
Hinduism, and Sufi mysticism. Based on a method called łthe Work,˛ it
uses free movement and sacred dances along with intense group sessions
where masks are stripped off to achieve a higher awareness. Gurdjieffąs
Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man, relocated in 1922 to
Paris, originated the łtransformational˛ technique of encounter
sessions that would be widely adopted in the US and serve in the
vanguard of the sexual revolution. Gurdjieff demonstrated his dances in
the US in 1924 but spent most of his life in France. Branches of the
Gurdjieff Foundation opened in New York in 1953 and in San Francisco in
1958."
"Gurdjieffąs influence can be seen in the Esalen Institute,
established in 1962 at Big Sur, California, by two psychology graduates
of Stanford University. Eventually, 100 Esalen Centers (named after an
Indian tribe) opened around the US. Its headquarters, nestled in the
mountains at natural hot springs overlooking the sea, remains the
symbol of the enterprise, which combines Asian religious concepts with
Western humanistic psychology. Esalen is a pure example of the sixties
spirit in its explicit mission to fuse comparative religion with art
and ecology. Its workshops, based on the Gurdjieff group session, drew
a long list of writers and thinkers in the sixties, including Alan
Watts and Aldous Huxley. Esalenąs continued exploration of mystical
issues is shown by recent conferences at its Big Sur site‹łSurvival of
Bodily Death˛ (2001) and łSubtle Energies and Uncharted Realms of the
Mind˛ (2000)."
"Traces of the Gurdjieff encounter session can be found in
EST (Erhard Seminar Training), founded in San Francisco in 1971 by
Werner Erhard, a used-car salesman from Philadelphia. Erhard was Jewish
but had been raised as an Episcopalian; he oddly gave himself a German
name in adulthood. In the late sixties, Erhard investigated Scientology
and studied Zen with Alan Watts in Sausalito. He claimed to have gone
to India to consult gurus like Swami Muktananda and Satya Sai Baba. In
EST, Erhard gave the workshop format the fervor of a Protestant revival
meeting and framed it with the language of Asian meditation and
spiritual discovery. Participants in ESTąs Large Group Awareness
Training were supposed to get łIt˛‹Wattsą term for the moment of
revelation. Marathon, eight-hour sessions, in which they were confined
and harassed, supposedly led to the breakdown of conventional ego,
after which they were in effect born again. Erhard said he wanted łto
blow the Mind˛ in the sixties way. Explicitly anti-Christian in
philosophy, EST was generally regarded as a cult, but it was a private,
for-profit organization. Its students were not runaways or hippies but
prosperous professionals. In 1991, amid tax problems and unsavory
family rumors, Erhard left the country."
"In its focus on public meetings, EST resembled Alcoholics
Anonymous, the model for todayąs twelve-step programs for recovery from
drug or sex addiction, with their glossary of pat terms like
łenabling,˛ łco-dependency,˛ and łinterventions.˛ AA has religious
undertones: partly inspired by the Oxford Group, a Christian fellowship
of British origins, it was founded in 1935 by łBill W,˛ a New Englander
saved from alcoholism by visions of divine white light. AA members
still profess faith in a łHigher Power˛ and practice public confession
as well as missionary outreach. In the sixties, the Oxford Group, under
a new name, sponsored the saccharine łUp with People˛ to foster
wholesome behavior among increasingly rebellious American teens."
>
> As an aside, L. Ron Hubbard also formulated his programs
> using large chunks of Eastern wisdom. As he professed,
> "scientology's closest spiritual ties with any other religion
> are with Orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism with which it shares an
> historical lineage."*
>
> In addition to the above, all est "concepts" using the words
> "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
>
>
>
> Ellen
> *from a 1967 bulletin, "Religious Philosophy and Religious
> Practice."
see http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults9.htm
"A member of the Golden Dawn would have great impact on the 1960s: the
Satanist Aleister Crowley (18751947), who joined the order in 1898.
Crowley rebelled against his affluent British family, who were Plymouth
Brethren, a puritanical, originally Irish Protestant sect. Throughout
his flamboyant career, Crowley combined Asian mysticism with Western
occultism and black magic. After the Golden Dawn self-destructed in
quarrels in 1900, he began traveling the world‹Mexico, India, Burma,
and Ceylon, where he learned yoga. He took mescaline in 1910. He wrote
many books, among them Diary of a Dope Fiend (1922) and Magick in
Theory and Practice (1929). Crowley advocated total sexual freedom,
including orgies and bestiality. He called himself łThe Great Beast˛
and took the Anti-Christąs apocalyptic 666 as his personal number. From
1912, Crowley led a German cult, the Ordo Templis Orientis, that
opened branches in the US. His politics were pro-Nazi‹a dismaying
detail usually lost in his legend."
"Crowleyąs influence fell heavily on the late sixties and
seventies. Biographies of Crowley had been published in England in 1958
and 1959; his autobiography, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley
(192930), was re-released in 1969. The Beatles inserted Crowleyąs face
(back row, second from left) in the cartoon cover collage of their
landmark Sergeant Pepper album (1967). It is rumored that the title
songąs first line (łIt was twenty years ago today˛) alludes to
Crowleyąs death in 1947. Because of its descent from blues‹called the
łdeviląs music˛ in the American South‹rock already had a voodoo element
lingering from Afro-Caribbean cults. But the Satanism in classic
Rolling Stones songs and the magic pentagrams on Led Zeppelinąs album
covers and stage costumes came from Crowley. Jimmy Page, Zeppelinąs
virtuoso lead guitarist, collected Crowley memorabilia and bought his
mansion, Boleskine House, on Scotlandąs Loch Ness. The fad for
backwards messages in rock songs, which the Beatles popularized, is
said (on what authority I cannot confirm) to have been inspired by
Crowley, who lauded the practice of reverse reading of scripture in
medieval Satanic rituals. Crowley admirers in seventies rock included
David Bowie and heavy-metal musicians like Ozzy Osbourne, whose song,
łMr. Crowley˛ (łYou waited on Satanąs call˛), appeared on his first
solo album after leaving Black Sabbath."
"Sixties Satanism was nurtured in California by Anton
Szandor La Vey (born Howard Levey in Illinois). The author of The
Satanic Bible (1970), La Vey had been practicing Crowley-style Black
Arts since the fifties. An advocate of Crowleyąs creed of radical
sexual liberation, he proclaimed łindulgence˛ to be the master Satanic
principle. In 1966, La Vey founded the Church of Satan at his home in
San Francisco, an all-black Victorian house where he conducted black
masses with perkily nude women in lavish, tribal animal masks (photos
survive). Contrary to rumor, La Vey did not, according to his daughter,
appear as Satan in Roman Polanskiąs occult hit film, Rosemaryąs Baby
(1968), nor did he have any connection with it whatsoever. Celebrities
and libertines (Mick Jagger reportedly among them) did visit La Vey's
łBlack House,˛ which may have once been a hotel. One of the most
brilliant songs of the seventies, the Eaglesą łHotel California,˛ is
said to have been inspired by rites at La Veyąs house, whose address
was 6114 California Street."
"A startling and little-known example of Crowleyąs enduring
influence is the Church of Scientology, founded in 1954 by
science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, one of the main shapers of New
Age thought. Hubbard had met Crowley at the latterąs Los Angeles temple
in 1945. Hubbardąs son has revealed that his father claimed to be
Crowleyąs successor: Hubbard told him that Scientology was born on the
day that Crowley died. The drills used by Scientologists to cleanse and
clarify the mind are evidently a reinterpretation of Crowleyąs singular
fusion of Asian meditation with Satanic ritualism, which sharpens the
all-conquering will. The guiding premise of Hubbardąs mega-bestseller,
Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health (1950), is that morality
and spirituality can be scientifically analyzed and managed‹as if guilt
and remorse, in the Crowley way, are mere baggage to be jettisoned.
Scientology, which attracts celebrities like John Travolta and Tom
Cruise, has been pursued by the IRS for its tax-exempt status as a
religion. Scientologyąs religiosity can be detected in its theory of
reincarnation: the łprocess˛ allegedly eradicates negative thoughts and
experiences predating our life in the womb."
computeruser
news:2b04d629.04031...@posting.google.com...
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=19970619033100.XAA23969%40ladder01.news.aol.com&output=gplain
~~~~
[Below is a section I meant to include at the bottom of my original post,
which
should put Erhard's involvement in Scientology in perspective. Bartley,
the author of Erhard's biography from which most of this data comes, seems
to have been
a respected philosopher, and has been credited with laying some of the
groundwork for memetics.]
Timeline of Werner Erhard and his involvement in various disciplines
1935 born Jack Rosenberg, Philadelphia; father jewish, mother
episcopalian
1938 Fall from window, fractured skull, near death experience
1943 Near drowning
1945 Hypnotized by a stage magician
1946 Reads book on Hatha Yoga, practices
1952 Signs up for marines but doesn't get parents' permission
1953 Graduates from high school
1953 Marries Pat Fry, several months pregnant
1955-60 Sells automobiles, mostly new cars at dealerships
1959 Meets June Bryde, asks for but is refused a divorce
1960 Leaves with June, take new names as Werner Hans Erhard and Ellen
Virginia Erhard
1960 Settles in St. Louis, sells used cars
1960 Reads Napoleon Hill's Think and Grown Rich, Maxwell Maltz'
Pscyho-Cybernetics
1960 Discovers Ellen is a good subject for hypnosis, which he has been
studying for years
1961 Travels in midwest selling correspondence courses
1962 Settles in Spokane, works for Encyclopedia Brittanica's Great Books
Progam as salesman and sales trainer
1962 Parents Magazine Cultural Institute, child development materials,
sales management and training
1962 Introduced to the work of Abraham Maslov and Carl Rogers,
theoreticians of the Human Potential Movement
1963 Takes workshops at Esalen, meets Fritz Perls
1963 Encounter and sensitivity groups
1963 Moves to California
1963 "Peak experience"
1963 Starts reading the work of, and studies with, Zen writer Alan
Watts
1967 Dale Carnegie sales training
Other disciplines studied during this period, exact dates not given:
Gestalt
TA (Transactional Analysys)
Abilitism "Enlightenment Intensive"
Martial arts, Judo
Year's study in asian religion Subud
1968- Reads and studies studies Scientology, 5 levels and 70 hours
auditing
(note: this appears to have been early Dianetics self-help
practices, rather than Scientology religious practices as known
today)
1968- Send associates Peter Monk and Mike Maurer to attend various
training courses and report back their analysis of them
1969 April - resigns from Parents, moves with entire staff to The
Grolier Society
1969 June - Parents Magazine publishes "The Dangerous New Cult of
Scientology"
1970 Discovers Mind Dynamics course, demonstration and training in mental
techniques influenced by Silva Mind Control, Edgar Cayce,
Rosicrucianism, Theosophy, etc.
1971 Becomes guest introduction leader, and then course leader, for
Mind Dynamics
1971 Erhard has a "transformational experience"
1971 The est Training started
Sources: All dates from Werner Erhard by W. W. Bartley, out of print
To be expanded as further information can be located and
verified
Draft from a forthcoming web page on the various courses, philosophies and
personalities of the Human Potential and Consciousness movements.
Submissions of further data and analysis welcomed
~~~~
BASS GUITAR GOD
> "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
>
>
The book "Werner Erhard: the transformation of a man, the founding of est"
addresses Werner's debt to Ron Hubbard and Scientology at great length, and
from reading in there about MEST, I'd say it all comes pretty close to the
thing about creating space, etc.
I think the stuff in est are things that people already KNOW, but the knowledge
is far, far to spread out to be useful.. these are things that nobody's "ever
put it to them like that before", and when it all clicks a person can really
take control. Just another path, est is. Some teachers are direct, others are
"mazemakers".
chris
"Ellenestnot" <depro...@MailandNews.com> wrote in message
news:2b04d629.04031...@posting.google.com...
Apparently, it's even worse than that - some monk acknowledged Hubbard to be
the
incarnation of Bhudda ....... among many other accomplishments,
Hubbard claimed title to the Bhuddahood in his book 'Hymn of Asia'.
> In addition to the above, all est "concepts" using the words
> "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
Plus the concept and practice of 'clearing'.
Chris
chris
in message news:405a1b30$0$52148$a046...@nnrp.fuse.net...
<snip>
> Sources: All dates from Werner Erhard by W. W. Bartley, out of print
> To be expanded as further information can be located and
> verified
>
> Draft from a forthcoming web page on the various courses, philosophies and
> personalities of the Human Potential and Consciousness movements.
>
> Submissions of further data and analysis welcomed
Have you read John Rowan's 1976 book 'Ordinary Ecstasy' on the history of
the Humanistic Psychology movement from the '40s to the '70s ? It might be
on Amazon.
Rowan idolises Maslow and Rogers, peak experiences and self-actualisation,
but he was a professional psychologist and makes no mention of Erhard or
Hubbard. He does approve of co-counselling, gestalt, primal, encounter, LSD,
meditation, Zen etc.
Chris
BASS GUITAR GOD
Diary of a DRUG fiend. Great book, would make a great movie... kinda like a
30's flavored, big budged MGM musical...
computeruser
news:180320041251021557%blac...@bellsouth.net...
sessions, in which they were confined
> and harassed, supposedly led to the breakdown of conventional ego,
> after which they were in effect born again. Erhard said he wanted łto
> blow the Mind˛ in the sixties way. Explicitly anti-Christian in
> philosophy, EST was generally regarded as a cult, but it was a private,
> for-profit organization. Its students were not runaways or hippies but
> prosperous professionals. In 1991, amid tax problems and unsavory
> family rumors, Erhard left the country."
>
> "In its focus on public meetings, EST resembled Alcoholics
> Anonymous, the model for todayąs twelve-step programs for recovery from
> drug or sex addiction, with their glossary of pat terms like
> łenabling,˛ łco-dependency,˛ and łinterventions.˛ AA has religious
> undertones: partly inspired by the Oxford Group, a Christian fellowship
> of British origins, it was founded in 1935 by łBill W,˛ a New Englander
> saved from alcoholism by visions of divine white light. AA members
> still profess faith in a łHigher Power˛ and practice public confession
> as well as missionary outreach. In the sixties, the Oxford Group, under
> a new name, sponsored the saccharine łUp with People˛ to foster
> wholesome behavior among increasingly rebellious American teens."
Awesome! black ice thanks,
Here is more on Gurdjieff and what is called the Fourth Way :
http://www.theprosperos.org/FAQ.htm#2
The Prosperos on Ontology:
http://www.theprosperos.org/FAQ.htm#1
computeruser
> > As an aside, L. Ron Hubbard also formulated his programs
> > using large chunks of Eastern wisdom. As he professed,
> > "scientology's closest spiritual ties with any other religion
> > are with Orthodox (Hinayana) Buddhism with which it shares an
> > historical lineage."*
> >
> > In addition to the above, all est "concepts" using the words
> > "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> > DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> > fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
> >
> >
> >
> > Ellen
> > *from a 1967 bulletin, "Religious Philosophy and Religious
> > Practice."
>
> see http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults9.htm
>
> "A member of the Golden Dawn would have great impact on the 1960s: the
> Satanist Aleister Crowley (18751947), who joined the order in 1898.
> Crowley rebelled against his affluent British family, who were Plymouth
> Brethren, a puritanical, originally Irish Protestant sect. Throughout
> his flamboyant career, Crowley combined Asian mysticism with Western
> occultism and black magic. After the Golden Dawn self-destructed in
> quarrels in 1900, he began traveling the world > and Ceylon, where he
learned yoga. He took mescaline in 1910. He wrote
> many books, among them Diary of a Dope Fiend (1922) and Magick in
> Theory and Practice (1929). Crowley advocated total sexual freedom,
> including orgies and bestiality. He called himself łThe Great Beast˛
> and took the Anti-Christąs apocalyptic 666 as his personal number. From
> 1912, Crowley led a German cult, the Ordo Templis Orientis, that
> opened branches in the US. His politics were pro-Nazi > detail usually
lost in his legend."
>
> "Crowleyąs influence fell heavily on the late sixties and
> seventies. Biographies of Crowley had been published in England in 1958
> and 1959; his autobiography, The Confessions of Aleister Crowley
> (192930), was re-released in 1969. The Beatles inserted Crowleyąs face
> (back row, second from left) in the cartoon cover collage of their
> landmark Sergeant Pepper album (1967). It is rumored that the title
> songąs first line (łIt was twenty years ago today˛) alludes to
> Crowleyąs death in 1947. Because of its descent from blues > łdeviląs
music˛ in the American South > lingering from Afro-Caribbean cults. But the
> and spirituality can be scientifically analyzed and managed > and remorse,
Ellenestnot
(snip)
> Apparently, it's even worse than that - some monk acknowledged Hubbard to be
> the
> incarnation of Bhudda ....... among many other accomplishments,
> Hubbard claimed title to the Bhuddahood in his book 'Hymn of Asia'.
Yes, Heheheheeee....I saw something like that. Actually, word
has it, if you pony up the $800,000(?) and do all the "levels"
and get to the big tug boat or freighter or whatever it is, to
get to the final teachings, past the Teegiack (?)"stuff," you get
to find out the L. Ron Hubbard is GOD. Talk about a booby prize!
Can you imagine???? (A position Werner Erhard also suggested that
he himself held, by the by.)
>
> > In addition to the above, all est "concepts" using the words
> > "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> > DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> > fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
>
> Plus the concept and practice of 'clearing'.
>
> Chris
Yes! How did I forget that one. It is an interesting "concept,"
both scientological and psychological, and probably a "state"
sought after since the first broken heart, that being the
eradication of painful emotion attached to specific memories
that we all suffer if we are even remotely sensate. Supposedly,
"a state of Clear" is one in which one is completely free from
all troubling emotions, but what they don't tell anyone is that
the various techniques also eradicate all other emotion as well.
(The reason adherents look "robotic," "zombie"-like, and
depressingly similar after a while. Has been called "psychic
numbing," which is or can be a normal survival reaction to acute
pain or simply a "dysfunctional" neurotic defense mechanism, or
in this case, a learned or trained response to any emotion.)
Also, ~disappear,~ as in; "I could disappear you with a
thought," and the opposite of ~create.~ Interestingly, W.W. Bartley
mentions that this is one thing he has trouble with in the
doctrine and dogma of Werner. It's just some idiotic hocus-pocus,
or megalomaniacal imaginings, but Bartley was so blinded by his
adoration of Werner he couldn't see it.
Ellen
Ellenestnot
> don't know if they were friends but they met many times. see
> http://skepdic.com/est.html
Yes...there are old stories floating around. I think Werner
Erhard sought out Watts as he sought out and cultivated other
"celebrities" to bolster his own image and placement in the
"pantheon." I have a vague recollection of some of the funnier
things Alan Watts said about Werner. I'll see if I can find them.
Also Michael Murphy, who tried to distance himself from Werner
fairly early, as I recall, as did Jerry Brown when he was the
governor of California, and Carl Rogers. (According to Steven
Pressman, part of Werner's original attraction to the teachings
of Alan Watts was that they included the "Bohemian" lifestyle he
craved which happened to embrace lots of sexual liasons with many
women he was not married to.)
>
> also see http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults9.htm
Interesting site.
Thanks, Fred
Ellen
chris
> In article <20040316231628...@mb-m21.aol.com>, DEATH METAL
> JUNKIE <drsmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I am also trying to gain a peripheral understanding of Scientology by
reading
> > Dianetics, and to be quite honest, I don't see a lot of similarities,
although
> > I must say that Hubbards views are fascinating, and I believe that when
> > applied
> > they would work. The real question of course that I would like to know
is, in
> > Scientology, is there an emphasis on SPACE and it's creation, etc.?
Thanks.
>
> IMO, the emphasis in Scientology is on "completion" or being at peace
> with your past. Hubbard believes that your present actions or inactions
> are directed by your past experiences and your survival reactions to
> them. If you're able to reexperience your memories fully and remove
> their "charge", you (in a way) discharge their influence over your
> mind. The memories are still there but they have no power over you.
A concept he pinched from early Freud (regression, catharsis) and Pavlov
(conditioned response/reflex). It probably predates Freud by a long way.
Freud abandoned it later on because he got poor results and clients got
stuck with the emotions of the re-awakened traumas. Better to let sleeping
dogs lie eh ?
Chris
Ellenestnot
> > "upset," "source," "at cause," and "complete" also came
> > DIRECTLY from scientology along with the pretentious and
> > fallacious labeling of his garbage as "technology."
>
> Plus the concept and practice of 'clearing'.
>
> Chris
Oh yeah.......one more I forgot; the practice of "handling"
someone or something which, in scientology and subsequently
est/LEC, means to bend or coerce or influence them or it to your
will and to your benefit using whatever tactics ("technology")
you can and usually involving what normal people would consider
intrusive, pushy, presumptuous, "entitled," arrogant, intense,
and manipulative, the characteristics most typically displayed
by many adherents of both groups.
Ellen