Soap Opera
Ron Fowler
this is one project that just doesn't move me - the album, the live
show, or the tv version (Starmaker). I'd love to see a video of the
Schoolboys in Disgrace show, though - fun album!
Joanne Corsano
I don't think I've ever actually seen any of the above. I like some of
the individual songs on 'Soap Opera' (when you take out the annoying
dialogue) but as a whole it doesn't work for me.
I agree that 'Schoolboys' is a better album.
I wasn't a fan of 'Preservation' either until the Boston Rock Opera
production of it, which (astonishly) was staged 10 years ago. I've
forgotten the name of the woman who was the director ... she used to
post to this newsgroup at that time. Anybody remember?
-Joanne
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BlackMonk
"Joanne Corsano" <joa...@picturelake.com> wrote in message
news:290i65tl777bjk0kc...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:33:05 -0700, lonely...@webtv.net (Ron
> Fowler) wrote:
>
>>Just watched my tape of Soap Opera live again. I love the Kinks, but
>>this is one project that just doesn't move me - the album, the live
>>show, or the tv version (Starmaker). I'd love to see a video of the
>>Schoolboys in Disgrace show, though - fun album!
>
> I don't think I've ever actually seen any of the above. I like some of
> the individual songs on 'Soap Opera' (when you take out the annoying
> dialogue) but as a whole it doesn't work for me.
>
I haven't heard the album in decades, but I liked the Starmaker BBC
production (the whole thing was on YouTube recently, it appears and
disappears every so often), I thought it was funny and very sweet in places.
As for the clips of the live production, it seems like Ray is playing to the
crowd and he took the heart out of the production. Norman in Starmaker is
sympathetic, Norman in the stage show probably beats his wife.
> I agree that 'Schoolboys' is a better album.
>
I didn't like it at all. It's not a bad album and I can't point to a song
that I dislike, but there's nothing special about it. Even if Soap Opera
doesn't work, it's an ambitious failure. Schoolboys, as a concept, just
isn't as interesting. Or, at least, the execution of it wasn't as
interesting. Several of the songs (and there aren't too many to start with)
only have a tenuous connection to the story.
Joanne Corsano
>Schoolboys, as a concept, just
>isn't as interesting. Or, at least, the execution of it wasn't as
>interesting. Several of the songs (and there aren't too many to start with)
>only have a tenuous connection to the story.
Well, that's true, but I never really liked the "koncept album
koncept" all that much.
I sort of think of Ray's whole koncept album period as being
ambitious, not a failure exactly, but not a roaring success, either.
It was Ray going off in a self-motivated direction without much input
from the rest of the group.
I basically NEVER listen to any of the koncept albums, whereas I
listen to just about every other Kinks record at least occasionally.
Maybe I oughta pull 'em out and give 'em a listen. Who knows, maybe
they're better than I think.
Ron Fowler
was inspired by the Village Green Preservation album, so why not do a
live show of that album instead of writing a bunch of new stuff, most of
which couldn't measure up to the original album? Only a few songs stand
out IMHO - One of the Survivors, Sweet Lady Genevieve, Sitting in the
Midday Sun. That's the problem I have with those "original cast" albums
of the Kinks, the focus went to telling a story, instead of the
individual songs. "Arthur" had great songs; "Lola Versus Powerman" had
some excellent songs ("Strangers", "Top of the Pops", "This Time
Tomorrow", "Apeman", "A Long Way from Home", and of course "Lola"). I
like "Schoolboys" better than "Preservation" and "Soap Opera" because
the songs are more fun, sure sounds like the band had fun recording
them. Love Dave's falsetto on "The First Time We Fall in Love". "Jack
the Idiot Dunce" brings a smile to my face.
Joanne Corsano
Fowler) wrote:
>The whole thing about Preservation I dont understand is, supposedly it
>was inspired by the Village Green Preservation album,
What's your source for this? I don't remember ever hearing this
mentioned before.
Certainly there are common themes between the two, but does that mean
there is a direct relationship? Ray was so concerned about the
damaging effects of modern mechanized society on the traditional ways
of life in his homeland that he couldn't stop writing about that
theme. But does that mean that when he wrote the songs for
'Preservation' he was thinking "gotta try again to get my point across
... nobody bought that VGPS record"?
>so why not do a live show of that album instead of writing a bunch of new stuff, most of
>which couldn't measure up to the original album?
I think a live show of VGPS would work now; at the time it hadn't
achieved the "cult favorite" status it has today among Kinks fans.
>Only a few songs stand out IMHO - One of the Survivors, Sweet Lady Genevieve, Sitting in the
>Midday Sun. That's the problem I have with those "original cast" albums
>of the Kinks, the focus went to telling a story, instead of the
>individual songs. "Arthur" had great songs; "Lola Versus Powerman" had
>some excellent songs ("Strangers", "Top of the Pops", "This Time
>Tomorrow", "Apeman", "A Long Way from Home", and of course "Lola"). I
>like "Schoolboys" better than "Preservation" and "Soap Opera" because
>the songs are more fun, sure sounds like the band had fun recording
>them. Love Dave's falsetto on "The First Time We Fall in Love". "Jack
>the Idiot Dunce" brings a smile to my face.
Agree. I have said many times that 'Preservation' really didn't work
for me UNTIL I saw it staged by the Boston Rock Opera, and then the
"plot" made sense to me, with the different songs being sung by
different actors, as opposed to everything sung by Ray.
Maybe Ray should have done these albums as a side project (not with
the Kinks) and written these albums as scores for stage productions,
with a full cast, instead of trying to shoehorn the plots into the
format of a rock album and show.
Ron Fowler
on his own. The Kinks were just the band, and were barely shown at all.
I kind of think Ray should have done all those "rock operas" away from
the band. I guess Dave got smart - years later, when Ray tried to
involve the band in his "Return to Waterloo" project, Dave declined to
be involved. I'm trying to remember all this stuff I've read through the
years, but I vaguely recall something to the effect that the Kinks were
presenting Village Green material on stage - maybe not the entire album,
but a good chunk of it. And then somehow that morphed into the
Preservation shows/albums. There's a lot of that 70's stuff that's still
a puzzle to me. I grew up with the Arista era Kinks, but quickly fell in
love with the 60's stuff as well. The RCA period is probably my least
favorite, but at least they were trying. Dave's input seems so minimal
during that time, maybe that's what I don't like about those records.
I'm more a Dave fan than a Ray fan. The best parts of Starmaker/Soap
Opera for me were the few times Dave got to sing or do a guitar solo.
Ray just seemed to self absorbed at that time.
Ron Fowler
Tea"
Joanne Corsano
Fowler) wrote:
> I grew up with the Arista era Kinks, but quickly fell in
>love with the 60's stuff as well.
This describes me as well. I consider myself a fan of all eras of the
Kinks.
>I'm more a Dave fan than a Ray fan. The best parts of Starmaker/Soap
>Opera for me were the few times Dave got to sing or do a guitar solo.
This describes me as well. When Dave went out on his solo tours, I
quickly realized that I am a Dave fan first and a Kinks fan second.
Ron Fowler
in 2006 on the Other People's Lives tour, great band, great songs, but
the sound in the theater was bad. I was able to enjoy the show more when
I saw what was basically the same show on Austin City Limits.
Joanne Corsano
>I saw what was basically the same show on Austin City Limits.'
I saw Dave solo 54 times. Only Rafaela, Frank Reda ("Freaky Frank"),
and Lee Arthur Wilkerson saw him more times than I did. I must've been
nuts in those days. Took vacations to follow Dave around like some
crazed fanatic. Loved every minute of it. All the waiting around, the
bad food, the rude bouncers, the horrid warmup acts ... loved every
minute.
mike weber
Fowler) wrote:
>I watched Starmaker last night, and it defintately should have been Ray
>on his own. The Kinks were just the band, and were barely shown at all.
>I kind of think Ray should have done all those "rock operas" away from
>the band
The very first Kinks show i attended (early 1975), they did two long
sets with an intermission - "Preservation" and "Soap Opera", the full
stage presentation, with the multimedia and all that.
I loved it.
Ron Fowler
Soap Opera was much more entertaining than the tv version, Starmaker.
Would love to see some live footage of Preservation or Schoolboys in
Disgrace.
mike weber
Fowler) wrote:
>Based on what I've seen from old video tape, the stage presentation of
>Soap Opera was much more entertaining than the tv version, Starmaker.
Oh, lord, yes it was.
andrew...@gmail.com
Best wishes, Andrew B. Noselli