River...keanu footnote (was: river)
Crisalis3
:"shelikessurprises" <unkno...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
:>how can there not be a river phoenix newsgroup?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
:>
:>-shelikessurprises
:
:If you're a River fan be grateful there's not an unmoderated newsgroup in
:his honor. If there were it would only be filled with trolls and cruel jokes
:about his death and his drug abuse.
:
:You wouldn't be able to enjoy a River Phoenix group because as a fan
:you'd be hurt by the stupid cruelty of trollers who would latch on to the
:group to insult River and his fans constantly. You'd probably spend
:more time arguing with bitchy trolls than discussing River. This
:happens in film groups whenever River's name is brought up. Trolls
:would *never* let you enjoy RP discussions in peace....
Hi Jenna and she:
You're right about trollers but the arguments about River's
death seem to always overshadow discussions about his
life. Some fans feel betrayed by his drug abuse too, so it's
not just "trolls" who criticize him. Don't you think so too?
Here are bits and pieces of a current discussion about RP
in another newsgroup. A mention of Keanu's included, I'm
sure we'll have something to say about it too. Read on!
(-)
>>I personally believe that the trappings of River's life as a
>>star were probably more than someone who was raised as
>>guileless and trusting as he was could completely prepare
>>himself for; having said that, I also believe that any one who
>>ODs past the age of about 15 is largely responsible for their
>>own fate; River SHOULD have known better. But he didn't. I
>>think it's very easy to get caught up in fast lane living
>>regardless of one's background if one doesn't hold tightly to
>>their beliefs. The failure to do so is hardly an indictment of the
>>family as much as it is an indictment of the circumstances
>>most closely surrounding the destructive behavior. I think
>>Arlyn/Heat's [sic] statement that took the responsiblity for the
>>death and assigned it to someone other than River was the
>>statement not of a junkie enabler, but of a grieving mother
>>incomprehensible of her loss.
(-)
>> Sounds like a lot of dopey rationalization for an undisciplined
>>hippie childhood that led to River doing the flip flop routine in
>>front of the Viper Room. I saw River on a morning TV show before
>>he died and he already looked screwed up and angry, unlike the
>>fake idyllic picture you paint about him. The proof is in the
>>pudding. If River was this wonderful person you portray then he
>>wouldn't have OD'd on the street. Blame goes to him, his screwed
>>up upbringing, and most especially to his wacked out hippie
>>parents.
(-)
>>From what I heard, Keanu Reeves was the bad influence. He
>>supposedly got River started on drugs when they were making
>>"My Private Idaho".
(-)
>>I don't think even Keanu can get someone to do something
>>they don't want to do.
The podium is yours...
``Cris`` the D'ruby
Good Sam Spice (AGC): Take a moment everyday to make
someone feel special.
Hvnlymesgr
>>>supposedly got River started on drugs when they were making
>>>"My Private Idaho".
>(-)
That not what I read I read that River was doing drugs ever since he was
young.I that in a magazine don`t rember witch one.
AlexShiwan
Message-ID: <19981104091937...@ng113.aol.com>:
>>>supposedly got River started on drugs when they were making
>>>"My Private Idaho".
>(-)
>>>they don't want to do.
Keanu persuaded River to experiment with hard drugs? I never heard that one
before. They were both hanging around street hustlers, prostitutes in Seattle,
some might have been addicted to heroin.
Where was Keanu when River died? Was he in LA?
Lex
AlexShiwan -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-everygoodboydeservesfavor
--- Beware the dyslexic devil worshipper who
sells his soul to Santa. -<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>
J
>cris...@aol.comethalley (Crisalis3) said in
snp to the point
>Keanu persuaded River to experiment with hard drugs? I never heard that one
>before. They were both hanging around street hustlers, prostitutes in Seattle,
>some might have been addicted to heroin.
I can't believe it at all, not given Keanu's father. Fans in the
other group mentioned, after Cybersleaze's blurb, IIRC, that Keanu has
given interviews in which he absolutely denies using drugs. In fact,
I'll stick my neck out so far as to say that was one of the
"impostor," if it was an impostor, details on the D* BB that made some
fans doubt that was Keanu. Of course, if it was really Keanu on the D*
BB, I withdraw this statement.
>Where was Keanu when River died? Was he in LA?
Filming Speed. Maybe River's death was the source of Keanu's rage when
he banged the cell phone to pieces. Katelijne might know. Dennis
Hopper said he never mentioned the death; Hollywood is too glib a
town.
J
JL
>
> >>>From what I heard, Keanu Reeves was the bad influence. He
> >>>supposedly got River started on drugs when they were making
> >>>"My Private Idaho".
> >(-)
> >>>I don't think even Keanu can get someone to do something
> >>>they don't want to do.
>
> before. They were both hanging around street hustlers, prostitutes in Seattle,
> some might have been addicted to heroin.
>
>
>
Keanu was filming Speed when River died. There are some
comments on the net from Dennis Hopper and Sandra Bullock
(who also new River) on Keanu's reaction to River's death.
The Hollywood rumour is that Keanu started River on drugs.
The evidence doesn't really point to this. They both may
have gotten into the heavier stuff during the filming of
MOPI. This is the jist of most of the reports from the
actors/crew who worked with them and the street people who
they hung out with. Both Keanu and van Sant have said that
River did not become addicted during Idaho.
JL
AlexShiwan
>AlexShiwan wrote:
>>
>> >>>From what I heard, Keanu Reeves was the bad influence. He
>> >>>supposedly got River started on drugs when they were making
>> >>>"My Private Idaho".
>> >(-)
>> >>>I don't think even Keanu can get someone to do something
>> >>>they don't want to do.
>>
>> Keanu persuaded River to experiment with hard drugs? I never heard that one
>> before. They were both hanging around street hustlers, prostitutes in
>Seattle,
>> some might have been addicted to heroin.
>>
>> Where was Keanu when River died? Was he in LA?
>>
>>
>
>Keanu was filming Speed when River died. There are some
>comments on the net from Dennis Hopper and Sandra Bullock
>(who also new River) on Keanu's reaction to River's death.
Yeah, you flashed me back to "A Thing Called Love" (?) that starred River,
costarred Sandra. Now River was definitely using while he made that movie, or
he had some horrible disease- I think we can eliminate the disease. He's zoned
through the whole thing & his eyes are bloodshot in every close up. I remember
reading that he stopped production on ATCL at least once or twice because he
was so wasted he couldn't even get out of his trailer. He must have been going
through a really bad time then, when Sandra was getting to know him.
>The Hollywood rumour is that Keanu started River on drugs.
>The evidence doesn't really point to this. They both may
>have gotten into the heavier stuff during the filming of
>MOPI. This is the jist of most of the reports from the
>actors/crew who worked with them and the street people who
>they hung out with. Both Keanu and van Sant have said that
>River did not become addicted during Idaho.
But didn't VanSant move out of his rented house in Seattle because of all the
all-night partying (with the cast & street boys who crashed there)? I heard he
was disgusted with the nightly wild drug parties, but after River's death he
denied this.
I don't know how to define "got River started on drugs". River clearly wanted
to experiment, so if Keanu said, "OK, that's cool, we'll do some together",
could that be called being an evil influence? Whether or not Keanu uses or used
the hard stuff, he shows self discipline & professionalism. He can clean
himself up and go to work & put in a good performance. River couldn't,
apparently. River had his demons before MOPI.
J
>I don't know how to define "got River started on drugs". River clearly wanted
>to experiment, so if Keanu said, "OK, that's cool, we'll do some together",
>could that be called being an evil influence?
Keanu doesn't seem like he has anything in him to be an evil
influence. Part of the drug culture involves one person , maybe
experienced with drugs, maybe not, acting as the "designated driver"
while the second+ person takes the drugs. Keanu's participation would
only have been that of a friend sticking by a friend, maybe like a
root canal. Plus Keanu was not with River on Halloween, so it's
difficult to say, after MOPI finished filming, how much time River and
Keanu spent with each other.
>Whether or not Keanu uses or used
>the hard stuff, he shows self discipline & professionalism. He can clean
>himself up and go to work & put in a good performance. River couldn't,
>apparently. River had his demons before MOPI.
For our international readers, I'll say that Americans have a term,
"chiefs and indians," IOW, leaders and followers. As far as the River
and drug use discussions go, I'm an indian. I think it's interesting
if River fans want to discuss it out because it helps them deal with
his death. The past is over. Children are helpless and are at the
mercy of whatever adults they're with, so I don't hold River
responsible for his childhood. I have sympathy for his family at the
loss of son/brother and have no judgment about what any of them
did/didn't do. River was an exceptional actor. There's a chance that
whatever he suffered came out as brilliant acting on screen. A quirky
thought, but then where does good acting come from? Like writing,
does it come to you or through you.
J
CheryBlast
anyone? I am disgusted at the people who sit around all day pointing out the
evils in everything everyone else has done. He made a mistake, but so have
millions of other people. How about the recovered "addicts" as you all have so
blaintly labled River? Noone ever drags their names through the mud now do
they?!!? Why? Because they realized they had a problem and did something
about ti" right? Newsflash: MR. PHOENIX DID LOOK FOR HELP!!! Corey Feldman
(co-star in stand by me, former "addict") has said that messages were left on
his machine hinting at a "call for help" if you will. It's said that in alot
of ways he was really , um, ashamed, (for lack of a better word) for what was
going on. It wasn't Keneau Reeves's fault or the hustlers on the set of MOPI's
fault or anyone else's fault...NOT EVEN HIS. Chalk it up to circumstance. And
another thing does anyone remember all the good he did. My god, Aleka's Attic
(his group) was dedicated to the sanctity of animals. How many free gigs did
he preform at for PETA or IDA and a million other animal charitys? How many
tracks did he donate to charity CD's never collecting a penny!!!! After the
shooting of Sneakers I believe he went out an bought HUNDEREDS OF ACRES OF LAND
IN THE RAINFORREST TO PRESERVE THE LAND. But all anyone seems to think of is
gee, didn't he od? One more thing, just to toss it out on the table, there is
the possibility that his death was infact a homicide not a suicide/ accidental
od. The drugs that killed him were taken oraly, it is believed that the drink
was spiked by members of the Children of God Cult for which his parents
belonged to when Mr. Phoenix was a child. They left the group due to moral
conflicts, they had them the cult didn't. Groups like this will seek and kill
those who speak out about and against them. Along with this and circumstantial
evidence enough proof/ evidence has been brought forth to substantiate an
investigation. Lastly I would like to remind everyone here that this is a
KEANU REEVES posing....not River Phoenix bash site.
Thank you, and please use tact when considering your post's contents.
MauveMinx
In article <19981105105353...@ng79.aol.com>,
alexs...@aol.com.EGBDF (AlexShiwan) writes:
>But didn't VanSant move out of his rented house in Seattle because of all the
>all-night partying (with the cast & street boys who crashed there)? I heard
>he
>was disgusted with the nightly wild drug parties, but after River's death he
>denied this.
That seems very familiar....
*Mauve ~~~
Cats rule, dogs drool.
MauveMinx
In article <71qnn4$q1h$2...@camel29.mindspring.com>, |bgri|@mindspring.com (J)
writes:
>>Keanu persuaded River to experiment with hard drugs? I never heard that one
>>before. They were both hanging around street hustlers, prostitutes in
>Seattle,
>>some might have been addicted to heroin.
>
>I can't believe it at all, not given Keanu's father. Fans in the
>other group mentioned, after Cybersleaze's blurb, IIRC, that Keanu has
>given interviews in which he absolutely denies using drugs. In fact,
>I'll stick my neck out so far as to say that was one of the
>"impostor," if it was an impostor, details on the D* BB that made some
>fans doubt that was Keanu.
Does Keanu deny using drugs going back to the MOPI era or just in
general at the present?
I thought he admitted doing drugs in the Details interview, but maybe
I'm hallucinating. ;)
I agree with you about how Keanu would have the incentive to stay
straight in his father's drug abuse. With dads into drugs or alcohol,
the kids can go either way it seems, like all or nothing.
MauveMinx
In article <71tcqc$kn5$1...@samsara0.mindspring.com>, |bgri|@mindspring.com (J)
writes:
>Keanu doesn't seem like he has anything in him to be an evil
>influence. Part of the drug culture involves one person , maybe
>experienced with drugs, maybe not, acting as the "designated driver"
>while the second+ person takes the drugs. Keanu's participation would
>only have been that of a friend sticking by a friend, maybe like a
>root canal. Plus Keanu was not with River on Halloween, so it's
>difficult to say, after MOPI finished filming, how much time River and
>Keanu spent with each other.
>
>
I'm so glad you brought this up, J, because I've been wanting to ask if
anybody remembers the BRIEF rumor that Keanu was in attendance
at the Viper Room the night River died. I'm positive I read that in an
early report, probably in a tabloid, though. Whatever source, the story
was that several well knowns were there when River was at the club,
but they quickly vacated the premises when River became ill, because
they knew cops would come with the ambulance, and drug busts
were possible. Keanu was named as an attendee that night. Well, at
least the story cleared up the mess a little bit by explaining that none
of River's friends had any idea that he would actually die.
MauveMinx
>The past is over. Children are helpless and are at the
>mercy of whatever adults they're with, so I don't hold River
>responsible for his childhood. I have sympathy for his family at the
>loss of son/brother and have no judgment about what any of them
>did/didn't do. River was an exceptional actor. There's a chance that
>whatever he suffered came out as brilliant acting on screen. A quirky
>thought, but then where does good acting come from? Like writing,
>does it come to you or through you.
I think good actors keep a little bit of the never-neverland in their
hearts. They're also very insecure people who need attention and
love, or so we're all told. I would also add they should be empathetic,
able to identify with ideas that have nothing in common with their
own personalities. Mostly I think they're childlike though. :-) But
unlike writers, actors say someone else's words and think someone
else's thoughts. They're interpreters, not creators.
MauveMinx
In article <19981105194304...@ng31.aol.com>, chery...@aol.com
(CheryBlast) writes:
(snip)
>Lastly I would like to remind everyone here that this is a
>KEANU REEVES posing....not River Phoenix bash site.
>Thank you, and please use tact when considering your post's contents.
As far as I know River has quite a few fans posting in afkr. I don't remember
seeing any posters here 'bashing' him. You're among friends here, River
fan. There must be a misunderstanding.
Someone posted quotes here about River that were taken from a
discussion in another newsgroup. Some of those quoted posts were
critical of River. We were discussing why a newsgroup for River's fans
might not be a good idea (someone had asked about it).
If you would quote the post you found offensive, that would help clear up
the misunderstanding.
It would be refreshing to talk about River's life instead of arguing about
his death.
J
>I'm so glad you brought this up, J, because I've been wanting to ask if
>anybody remembers the BRIEF rumor that Keanu was in attendance
>at the Viper Room the night River died. I'm positive I read that in an
>early report, probably in a tabloid, though. Whatever source, the story
>was that several well knowns were there when River was at the club,
>but they quickly vacated the premises when River became ill, because
>they knew cops would come with the ambulance, and drug busts
>were possible. Keanu was named as an attendee that night.
No but thanks for mentioning. Early would have fit Keanu's schedule
during filming and would give us an hint that he was did stay in touch
with River while both were in H'wood.
>Well, at
>least the story cleared up the mess a little bit by explaining that none
>of River's friends had any idea that he would actually die.
I'm sure they didn't.
J
J
>Okay, guys, live and let die. Does the phrase Rest In Peace mean anything to
>anyone? I am disgusted at the people who sit around all day pointing out the
>evils in everything everyone else has done. He made a mistake, but so have
>millions of other people. How about the recovered "addicts" as you all have so
>blaintly labled River? Noone ever drags their names through the mud now do
>they?!!? Why? Because they realized they had a problem and did something
>about ti" right? Newsflash: MR. PHOENIX DID LOOK FOR HELP!!! Corey Feldman
>(co-star in stand by me, former "addict") has said that messages were left on
>his machine hinting at a "call for help" if you will. It's said that in alot
>of ways he was really , um, ashamed, (for lack of a better word) for what was
>going on. It wasn't Keneau Reeves's fault or the hustlers on the set of MOPI's
>fault or anyone else's fault...NOT EVEN HIS. Chalk it up to circumstance.
Ever heard the word 'catharsis'? It helps some people grieve if they
can talk about death. It helps them get over it. This is an
unmoderated group, so anyone can post anything. The Children of God
could post here if they wanted to.
>And
>another thing does anyone remember all the good he did. My god, Aleka's Attic
>(his group) was dedicated to the sanctity of animals. How many free gigs did
>he preform at for PETA or IDA and a million other animal charitys? How many
>tracks did he donate to charity CD's never collecting a penny!!!! After the
>shooting of Sneakers I believe he went out an bought HUNDEREDS OF ACRES OF LAND
>IN THE RAINFORREST TO PRESERVE THE LAND. But all anyone seems to think of is
>gee, didn't he od? One more thing, just to toss it out on the table, there is
>the possibility that his death was infact a homicide not a suicide/ accidental
>od. The drugs that killed him were taken oraly, it is believed that the drink
>was spiked by members of the Children of God Cult for which his parents
>belonged to when Mr. Phoenix was a child. They left the group due to moral
>conflicts, they had them the cult didn't. Groups like this will seek and kill
>those who speak out about and against them. Along with this and circumstantial
>evidence enough proof/ evidence has been brought forth to substantiate an
>investigation.
Didn't know this, thanks.
> Lastly I would like to remind everyone here that this is a
>KEANU REEVES posing....not River Phoenix bash site.
>Thank you, and please use tact when considering your post's contents.
Someone already explained why we are talking about River, not bashing
him.
J
JL
>
> chery...@aol.com (CheryBlast) wrote:
>
> >Okay, guys, live and let die. Does the phrase Rest In Peace mean anything to
> >anyone?
<snip>
>
> Ever heard the word 'catharsis'? It helps some people grieve if they
> can talk about death. It helps them get over it. This is an
> unmoderated group, so anyone can post anything. The Children of God
> could post here if they wanted to.
<snip of river's accomplishments>
> >And
> >another thing does anyone remember all the good he did. My god, Aleka's Attic
But all anyone seems to think of is
> >gee, didn't he od? One more thing, just to toss it out on the table, there is
> >the possibility that his death was infact a homicide not a suicide/ accidental
> >od. The drugs that killed him were taken oraly, it is believed that the drink
> >was spiked by members of the Children of God Cult for which his parents
> >belonged to when Mr. Phoenix was a child. They left the group due to moral
> >conflicts, they had them the cult didn't. Groups like this will seek and kill
> >those who speak out about and against them. Along with this and circumstantial
> >evidence enough proof/ evidence has been brought forth to substantiate an
> >investigation.
>
> Didn't know this, thanks.
>
> >
>
> J
Some reports have indicated River may not have been an
addict. He may have been partying and took it a bit too
far. River's autopsy indicated that he died of a heroin
overdose. Although it could be a possibility, I don't buy
the conspiracy theory because many reports indicated he was
in rough shape at interviews and during the filming of his
movies. This would also point to the possibility that River
was not just partying.
To me the big shock with River, aside from the tragic death
of a young man, was the contrast between his clean image
and his heroin death. He was involved in helping animals,
saving the earth and he was a vegetarian. At the time I
liked River's work but I didn't follow his personal life.
His image was that he was a good example to youth.
Later I learned about his past and indications of trouble.
His death from heroin shocked a lot of people who admired
his acting yet knew little about his personal life.
He was a wonderful actor with an unlimited future and it
still hurts people to think it all ended due to drugs.
JL
Crisalis3
>
>Some reports have indicated River may not have been an
>addict. He may have been partying and took it a bit too
>far. River's autopsy indicated that he died of a heroin
>overdose. Although it could be a possibility, I don't buy
>the conspiracy theory because many reports indicated he was
>in rough shape at interviews and during the filming of his
>movies. This would also point to the possibility that River
>was not just partying.
The problem with the theory about the
overdose being a result of River's
negligence is--he had ingested enough
heroin to kill himself four times over. It's
possible he was slipped some quantity of
heroin without knowing it. If he was doing
since MOPI he must have had an idea
about quantity and pacing himself. I heard
he was sick and totally exhausted. Maybe
he wasn't thinking straight but I believe he
wasn't the only person responsible for his
death on that night. I couldn't say it was
foul play but I wouldn't rule it out. We'll
never know?
>To me the big shock with River, aside from the tragic death
>of a young man, was the contrast between his clean image
>and his heroin death. He was involved in helping animals,
>saving the earth and he was a vegetarian. At the time I
>liked River's work but I didn't follow his personal life.
>His image was that he was a good example to youth.
>Later I learned about his past and indications of trouble.
>His death from heroin shocked a lot of people who admired
>his acting yet knew little about his personal life.
I think the world has lots of people who
love everything and everyone but not
themselves. He didn't understand that he
needed to take care of himself or he
wouldn't be around to do good for the
world.
>He was a wonderful actor with an unlimited future and it
>still hurts people to think it all ended due to drugs.
Amen sister.
``Cris`` the druby ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agc's Good Sam Spice: Never underestimate the power of
words to heal, the power of words to harm. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JL
>
> JL <jl...@sprint.ca> writes:
>
> >
> >Some reports have indicated River may not have been an
> >addict. He may have been partying and took it a bit too
> >far. River's autopsy indicated that he died of a heroin
> >overdose. Although it could be a possibility, I don't buy
> >the conspiracy theory because many reports indicated he was
> >in rough shape at interviews and during the filming of his
> >movies. This would also point to the possibility that River
> >was not just partying.
>
> The problem with the theory about the
> overdose being a result of River's
> negligence is--he had ingested enough
> heroin to kill himself four times over. It's
> possible he was slipped some quantity of
> heroin without knowing it. If he was doing
> since MOPI he must have had an idea
> about quantity and pacing himself. I heard
> he was sick and totally exhausted. Maybe
> he wasn't thinking straight but I believe he
> wasn't the only person responsible for his
> death on that night. I couldn't say it was
> foul play but I wouldn't rule it out. We'll
> never know?
River's brother and River's girlfriend at the time were with
him. I think River was reported as shooting up in the
bathroom and they were unaware of it. Could all be rumour.
I wonder what Joaquim (Leaf) has to say about it all.
JL
Liberty
> Okay, guys, live and let die. Does the phrase Rest In Peace mean anything to
> anyone? I am disgusted at the people who sit around all day pointing out the
> evils in everything everyone else has done. He made a mistake, but so have
> millions of other people.
A BIG mistake that killed him. River Phoenix made the biggest statement of
his life in the way he he killed himself.
> How about the recovered "addicts" as you all have so
> blaintly labled River? Noone ever drags their names through the mud now do
> they?!!? Why? Because they realized they had a problem and did something
> about ti" right? Newsflash: MR. PHOENIX DID LOOK FOR HELP!!! Corey Feldman
> (co-star in stand by me, former "addict") has said that messages were left on
> his machine hinting at a "call for help" if you will. It's said that in alot
> of ways he was really , um, ashamed, (for lack of a better word) for what was
> going on.
He could have afforded the best treatment centers in the world. River
Phoenix lived a life style that was destined to killed himself. I want my
children and grand children to know of the talent of River Phoenix. I want
them to know of all his talent. I want them to know how drugs had killed
him. I want them to know that River had choices in life and that one of the
choices was bad and killed him. When Jimmi Hendrix died, it sure scared the
shit out out of me, but perhaps it saved my life also. Must addicts are
ashamed of them themselves, but the solutions are clear, yet they keep keep
living their life in denial.
> It wasn't Keneau Reeves's fault or the hustlers on the set of MOPI's
> fault or anyone else's fault...NOT EVEN HIS. Chalk it up to circumstance.
This statement above is what really infuriates me. It was his fault. Know
one forced him to go to the Viper room. No one forced those drugs down his
throat. He could have got help. He could have got treatment. He didn't have
to suck that first line down his nose. We all have to accept responcibilty
for our actions. You can't blame River's adiction and his overdose on any
except River. Adicts never accept total responsibilty for their situation.
Its all a part of the denial proccess.
> another thing does anyone remember all the good he did. My god, Aleka's Attic
> (his group) was dedicated to the sanctity of animals. How many free gigs did
> he preform at for PETA or IDA and a million other animal charitys? How many
> tracks did he donate to charity CD's never collecting a penny!!!! After the
> shooting of Sneakers I believe he went out an bought HUNDEREDS OF ACRES OF LAND
> IN THE RAINFORREST TO PRESERVE THE LAND. But all anyone seems to think of is
> gee, didn't he od?
Duh!!! It was pretty much a grand final final statement wasn't it!! To bad
he didn't give some money to some inner city drug treatment centers. Seems
as though he treated trees and animals better than he did his fellow human
beings.
> One more thing, just to toss it out on the table, there is
> the possibility that his death was infact a homicide not a suicide/ accidental
> od. The drugs that killed him were taken oraly, it is believed that the drink
> was spiked by members of the Children of God Cult for which his parents
> belonged to when Mr. Phoenix was a child. They left the group due to moral
> conflicts, they had them the cult didn't. Groups like this will seek and kill
> those who speak out about and against them. Along with this and circumstantial
> evidence enough proof/ evidence has been brought forth to substantiate an
> investigation.
He was in the Viper club With his friends Who were reported to be pretty
toasted themselves. Who is investigating? The National Enquirer?
> Lastly I would like to remind everyone here that this is a
> KEANU REEVES posing....not River Phoenix bash site.
> Thank you, and please use tact when considering your post's contents.
Hard to not bash someone who recklessly wasted himself. I am an admirer of
Phoenix's work and his stuff. I also would like to think that Phoenix's
wasting himself might have been a wake-up call for Keanu.
Yeah it hurt when he died, but its a lesson that that needs to be learned
and understood. The shock of his death and repulsivness of the lifestyle
that killed him could be a better legacy than any of his films. It
certainly is reminder that these drugs kill. I hope a few kid's when offer
some coke, or other fun drug will form an image in their mind of RIver
being loaded into the ambulance in front of the viper room.
--
Liberty ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Liberty :Freedom is first earned
liberty...@revolutionist.com :by demanding it. It's lost by
:forgetting its value.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
J
> JL <jl...@sprint.ca> writes:
>>
>>Some reports have indicated River may not have been an
>>addict. He may have been partying and took it a bit too
>>far. River's autopsy indicated that he died of a heroin
>>overdose. Although it could be a possibility, I don't buy
>>the conspiracy theory because many reports indicated he was
>>in rough shape at interviews and during the filming of his
>>movies. This would also point to the possibility that River
>>was not just partying.
> The problem with the theory about the
>overdose being a result of River's
>negligence is--he had ingested enough
>heroin to kill himself four times over. It's
>possible he was slipped some quantity of
>heroin without knowing it. If he was doing
>since MOPI he must have had an idea
>about quantity and pacing himself.
Sounds reasonable, doesn't it. I guess, sadly enough, River had the
money to buy himself four times the normal dose and have it with him
that night.
What does a 4x dose look like (does it fill a hypodermic?) How does it
measure out? Is it possible to tell a person injected a 4x dose
because some of it remains at the site of the injection? If no, then
there's no way to tell if he injected the 4x dose is there? I agree
with your point that he could have injected some and then could have
been given more by drink, through his mouth. Ingested food/drink
stays in the stomach how many minutes-to-hours.
I'm thinking of poisonous snake bites in the foot or leg. The victim
is not supposed to panic or exert b/c that's spreads the venom from
the foot/leg to the heart, paralyzing the heart muscles, IIRC. At the
entry site, the skin dies and sloughs off.
An arm injection of heroin would have only a short distance to go
right to the heart, in contrast. If River was right-handed, he
injected into his left arm and heroin would have circulated into his
heart in a matter of seconds.
>I heard
>he was sick and totally exhausted. Maybe
>he wasn't thinking straight but I believe he
>wasn't the only person responsible for his
>death on that night. I couldn't say it was
>foul play but I wouldn't rule it out. We'll
>never know?
I guess not unless someone confesses. Or to what extent the autopsy
reports/medical records have been made public.
J
JL
> > The problem with the theory about the
> >overdose being a result of River's
> >negligence is--he had ingested enough
> >heroin to kill himself four times over. It's
> >possible he was slipped some quantity of
> >heroin without knowing it. If he was doing
> >since MOPI he must have had an idea
> >about quantity and pacing himself.
>
> Sounds reasonable, doesn't it. I guess, sadly enough, River had the
> money to buy himself four times the normal dose and have it with him
> that night.
>
> What does a 4x dose look like (does it fill a hypodermic?) How does it
> measure out? Is it possible to tell a person injected a 4x dose
> because some of it remains at the site of the injection? If no, then
> there's no way to tell if he injected the 4x dose is there? I agree
> with your point that he could have injected some and then could have
> been given more by drink, through his mouth. Ingested food/drink
> stays in the stomach how many minutes-to-hours.
>
> I guess not unless someone confesses. Or to what extent the autopsy
> reports/medical records have been made public.
>
> J
An autopsy includes blood toxicology which can determine the
amount of Morphine in the blood. The heroin goes to the
liver where the by-product of metabolization is morphine. I
guess it can accurately be determined as to what x amount of
heroin produces x amount of morphine. Especially, as in
River's case, when testing is done immediately. Although
tests are more sophisticated now, ie. the technical ability
to find all kinds of minute amounts of drugs in Olympic
athletes, testing was sophisticated in 1994 as well.
The information I have gleaned from magazines and
unauthorized biographies says that River and his friends
were already high when they got to the club. Alcoholics
will drink until they black out. Addicts will shoot until
they are oblivious. I agree with Liberty that River is
responsible for his own death. Possibly if he had survived
this overdose it might have led to recovery. He didn't get
a chance for survival.
The autopsy report has been made public. Both Bio's that I
read quoted it. I think if foul play was suspected River's
girlfriend (the girl from Broken Arrow) and brother (Leaf)
would have suspicions and report them to police.
JL
TarlaStar
>
>I think good actors keep a little bit of the never-neverland in their
>hearts. They're also very insecure people who need attention and
>love, or so we're all told. I would also add they should be empathetic,
>able to identify with ideas that have nothing in common with their
>own personalities. Mostly I think they're childlike though. :-) But
>unlike writers, actors say someone else's words and think someone
>else's thoughts. They're interpreters, not creators.
>
I have to disagree with you, Mauve. I've lived with actors and known
many good ones. The women have all been very strong minded and
confident. We all have our areas of insecurity, but I don't find most
actors to be any more insecure than anyone else. The only common
thread I've found among actors that I've known is, Passion. They all
feel strongly about things and have learned to express themselves well
because of it. You can't survive in the movie/theatre business by
being childlike or innocent or any of that romantic nonsense.
*****
One of the best things about outer space is that you can't
smell a dog fart.
*****
TarlaStar
>
>What does a 4x dose look like (does it fill a hypodermic?) How does it
>measure out? Is it possible to tell a person injected a 4x dose
>because some of it remains at the site of the injection? If no, then
>there's no way to tell if he injected the 4x dose is there? I agree
>with your point that he could have injected some and then could have
>been given more by drink, through his mouth. Ingested food/drink
>stays in the stomach how many minutes-to-hours.
J, I sometimes wonder how you've managed to stay alive as long as you
have. You have no experience in the world, do you? Here's how you
overdose: you take four times the amount of heroin and dissolve it in
the same amount (or slightly more) of distilled water and cook it.
Then you suck it all up into the syringe (where it takes about the
same amount of space but is simply more dense with the drug) and
inject. You can TELL that you've had that much heroin by testing the
blood and seeing how many parts per million are there compared to what
one would normally expect to see. Why in God's name would anyone EAT
heroin? It would be a waste of good money.
J
>An autopsy includes blood toxicology which can determine the
>amount of Morphine in the blood. The heroin goes to the
>liver where the by-product of metabolization is morphine. I
>guess it can accurately be determined as to what x amount of
>heroin produces x amount of morphine.
Interesting, I didn't know this.
>Especially, as in
>River's case, when testing is done immediately. Although
>tests are more sophisticated now, ie. the technical ability
>to find all kinds of minute amounts of drugs in Olympic
>athletes, testing was sophisticated in 1994 as well.
"testing was sophisticated in 1994" ok-that's the basis of my
question--could the medical people completely rule out that River had
been given heroin by mouth, yes or no? It deals with the foul play
issue someone brought up.
If the medical people know he got ALL of the heroin by injection, then
ok. I've "taken too much" in very innocent circumstances in my life,
so I understand completely how River could have.
If they know/knew that River got some heroin by mouth, then the family
would have had to worry that River's siblings and friends may have
been the next target.
If they had the precision to tell that River got some heroin by mouth,
but there were extenuating circumstances--too small an amount to
trace, he vomited and the stomach contents destroyed the 'evidence,'
then foul play was still a possiblity--whether or not anyone reported
it/supressed it from the police.
I'm just asking was 'heroin by mouth' completely and definitively
ruled out?
>The information I have gleaned from magazines and
>unauthorized biographies says that River and his friends
>were already high when they got to the club. Alcoholics
>will drink until they black out. Addicts will shoot until
>they are oblivious. I agree with Liberty that River is
>responsible for his own death. Possibly if he had survived
>this overdose it might have led to recovery. He didn't get
>a chance for survival.
Ok. If River was a vegetarian, if he'd lost a lot of weight/had a
low body mass index, if he was "skin and bones" it wouldn't have taken
a lot of heroin to kill him.
>The autopsy report has been made public. Both Bio's that I
>read quoted it. I think if foul play was suspected River's
>girlfriend (the girl from Broken Arrow) and brother (Leaf)
>would have suspicions and report them to police.
Or maybe not, if River's siblings would have been the next probably
target. Maybe River's parents decided not to? It wouldn't bring River
back to life and might endanger someone else? Grief can effect
decision-making.
J
JL
>
> JL <jl...@sprint.ca> wrote:
> snip<
> "testing was sophisticated in 1994" ok-that's the basis of my
> question--could the medical people completely rule out that River had
> been given heroin by mouth, yes or no? It deals with the foul play
> issue someone brought up.
I guess it depends on whether heroin is effective take
orally or whether the enzymes and hcl acid in the stomach
destroy it. Morphine is given by injection although I think
there is a morphine pill. It would be coated to protect the
active ingredient until it got into the duodenum.
Is it possible to eat or drink heroin and have the same
effect? I could go look it up but I just got up and it's
Sunday morning and I'm too lazy.
***
> If the medical people know he got ALL of the heroin by injection, then
> ok. I've "taken too much" in very innocent circumstances in my life,
> so I understand completely how River could have.
***
I guess he would have track marks.
***
>snip<
> If they had the precision to tell that River got some heroin by mouth,
> but there were extenuating circumstances--too small an amount to
> trace, he vomited and the stomach contents destroyed the 'evidence,'
> then foul play was still a possiblity--whether or not anyone reported
> it/supressed it from the police.
***
If anything from the autopsy indicated foul play the police
would be called in. I'm sure the police came when 911 was
called.
****
> I'm just asking was 'heroin by mouth' completely and definitively
> ruled out?
>
> >The information I have gleaned from magazines and
> >unauthorized biographies says that River and his friends
> >were already high when they got to the club. Alcoholics
> >will drink until they black out. Addicts will shoot until
> >they are oblivious. I agree with Liberty that River is
> >responsible for his own death. Possibly if he had survived
> >this overdose it might have led to recovery. He didn't get
> >a chance for survival.
>
> Ok. If River was a vegetarian, if he'd lost a lot of weight/had a
> low body mass index, if he was "skin and bones" it wouldn't have taken
> a lot of heroin to kill him.
>
> >The autopsy report has been made public. Both Bio's that I
> >read quoted it. I think if foul play was suspected River's
> >girlfriend (the girl from Broken Arrow) and brother (Leaf)
> >would have suspicions and report them to police.
>
> Or maybe not, if River's siblings would have been the next probably
> target. Maybe River's parents decided not to? It wouldn't bring River
> back to life and might endanger someone else? Grief can effect
> decision-making.
***
If murder is suspected it wouldn't be the parents decision,
would it?
>
JL
JL
> > If the medical people know he got ALL of the heroin by injection, then
> > If they had the precision to tell that River got some heroin by mouth,
> > but there were extenuating circumstances--too small an amount to
> > trace, he vomited and the stomach contents destroyed the 'evidence,'
> > then foul play was still a possiblity--whether or not anyone reported
> > it/supressed it from the police.
***
Drugs can be measured in nanograms which can tell ver minute
amounts. They could tell he had 4x the the amount to kill
him so he didn't have too small an amount to trace. He
probably did vomit but the emesis could be tested.
I haven't heard a foul play rumour before and I think it
would get lots of attention in the tabloids if there was any
hint. Of course, that doesn't make it true or not true.
Can you "sniff" heroin? That method would bypass the
stomach and absorb immediately into the blood stream. Of
course no one could force River to sniff it.
JL
J
>***
>I guess it depends on whether heroin is effective take
>orally or whether the enzymes and hcl acid in the stomach
>destroy it. Morphine is given by injection although I think
>there is a morphine pill. It would be coated to protect the
>active ingredient until it got into the duodenum.
>Is it possible to eat or drink heroin and have the same
>effect? I could go look it up but I just got up and it's
>Sunday morning and I'm too lazy.
Thanks for the info. I didn't mean for the questions to sound like
they were addressed to you and only you, JL. I understand about
Sunday morning. The questions were just thrown out to anyone who
wanted to reply to them.
>***
>> If the medical people know he got ALL of the heroin by injection, then
>> ok. I've "taken too much" in very innocent circumstances in my life,
>> so I understand completely how River could have.
>***
>I guess he would have track marks.
>***
Yes.
>***
>If anything from the autopsy indicated foul play the police
>would be called in. I'm sure the police came when 911 was
>called.
I kinda agree, although since the OJ trial and I suppose LA
Confidential maybe justice can be made to walk, run, or limp. Just my
opinion.
>****
[snip]
>***
>If murder is suspected it wouldn't be the parents decision,
>would it?
>>
I would think not, but in California? Thanks for the info. Back to a
lazy Sunday for you.
J
TarlaStar
>Can you "sniff" heroin? That method would bypass the
>stomach and absorb immediately into the blood stream. Of
>course no one could force River to sniff it.
If it's very pure, you can snort it.
Crisalis3
I agree, actors have to have enormous
amounts of self confidence. I would call the
common denominator Enthusiasm but you're
right, it's Passion too. But it's true that in every
thing an actor does he or she is like saying
"here I am, please like me". They're selling
their very beings to make a living, so it's not
like any other occupation. When an actor is
rejected, there's noone more pathetic.
I've heard actors say that acting is not an
occupation for mature adults, because it's
like they're getting paid to play games of
make believe, like kids play. As my old
pal David Duchovny once said, "Being
an actor involves a lot of pampering, a lot
of make believe. I'm not saying it's easy
work, and I'm not saying it is sissy work,
but you can be susceptible to the idea that
you're not doing a real man's job."
HiHoCherio
track marks...anywhere. That's how they knew he took, or was slipped whatever
it was via a drink. It's in all the books, reports, articles, etc.
HiHoCherio
>measure out? Is it possible to tell a person injected a 4x dose
>because some of it remains at the site of the injection? If no, then
>there's no way to tell if he injected the 4x dose is there? I agree
>with your point that he could have injected some and then could have
>been given more by drink, through his mouth. Ingested food/drink
>stays in the stomach how many minutes-to-hours.
>
>is not supposed to panic or exert b/c that's spreads the venom from
>the foot/leg to the heart, paralyzing the heart muscles, IIRC. At the
>entry site, the skin dies and sloughs off.
>
>An arm injection of heroin would have only a short distance to go
>right to the heart, in contrast. If River was right-handed, he
>injected into his left arm and heroin would have circulated into his
>heart in a matter of seconds.
>
>>I heard
>>he was sick and totally exhausted. Maybe
>>he wasn't thinking straight but I believe he
>>wasn't the only person responsible for his
>>death on that night. I couldn't say it was
>>foul play but I wouldn't rule it out. We'll
>>never know?
>
>reports/medical records have been made public
GUYS, LISTEN TO ME...HE DID NOT INJECT ANYTHING...AT ALL, WHATEVER IT WAS HE
TOOK THAT NIGHT, SLIPED OR WHATEVER, HE INGESTED IT ORALLY. THERE WERE NO
TRACK MARKS, NOT EVEN AN INDIVIDUAL MARK ON THE BODY...NONE. WHICH IS WHY IT
WOULD BE SAFE TO SAY HE WASN'T THAT HEAVY INTO THE ENTIRE THING AS IT'S MADE
OUT. AND IT'S ALSO WHY IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO ACCEPT A HOMICIDE THEORY.
THANKS.
HiHoCherio
>ok. I've "taken too much" in very innocent circumstances in my life,
>so I understand completely how River could have.
>
>would have had to worry that River's siblings and friends may have
>been the next target.
>
>but there were extenuating circumstances--too small an amount to
>trace, he vomited and the stomach contents destroyed the 'evidence,'
>then foul play was still a possiblity--whether or not anyone reported
>it/supressed it from the police.
>
>ruled out?
>
>
IT CAN BE DEFINITIVLY RULED OUT THAT ANY OF THE HEROIN WAS INJECTED, AND THAT
IT WAS ALL ADMINISTERED BY MOUTH DUE TO THE LACK OF A VITAL THING...TRACK
MARKS. IF ANYONE'S EVER READ A BIO, ARTICLE, NEWS LETTER, OR ANYTHING, YOU'D
KNOW NO MARKS..ANYWHERE...WERE FOUND. UNLESS HE ABSORBED 4X A DEADLY DOSE BY
OSMOSIS, (I.E. A PATCH) THEN IT WAS AN ORAL DOSAGE
J
Liv
>On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:22:51 GMT, barbara@.bookpro.com wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> I've known a few heroin users and read a good
>>bit about heroin; I've only ever seen or heard of snorting, shooting,
>>and sniffing it, not taking it orally.
>
>Sorry, that should have read "I've only ever seen or heard of
>snorting, shooting, and smoking it ..."
-------------------------
There's skin popping-- putting a little under your skin with a sharp
object.
Liv
garba...@Ziplink.net
take out the garbage to reply
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing...
JL
>
> It's a fact that River didn't go off into the bathroom and shoot up. Why? No
> track marks...anywhere. That's how they knew he took, or was slipped whatever
> it was via a drink. It's in all the books, reports, articles, etc.
Not all. One of the bio's I read said he was high and then
he went into the bathroom and either snorted or injected an
over dose.
JL
JL
> >HiHoCherio explains it all:
> >
> >:GUYS, LISTEN TO ME...HE DID NOT INJECT ANYTHING...AT ALL, WHATEVER IT WAS HE
> >:TOOK THAT NIGHT, SLIPED OR WHATEVER, HE INGESTED IT ORALLY. THERE WERE NO
> >:TRACK MARKS, NOT EVEN AN INDIVIDUAL MARK ON THE BODY...NONE. WHICH IS WHY IT
> >:WOULD BE SAFE TO SAY HE WASN'T THAT HEAVY INTO THE ENTIRE THING AS IT'S MADE
> >:OUT. AND IT'S ALSO WHY IT WOULD BE VERY EASY TO ACCEPT A HOMICIDE THEORY.
> >:THANKS.
> >
>
From Lost in Hollywood - The fast times and short life of
River Phoenix:
"After chatting to Frusciante and Flea near owner Johnny
Depp's private booth, Phoenix and his party were given a
table toward the back of the club. The actor was approached
by drug dealers who offered him a taste of their wares. He
disappeared into the men's room with them. At 12:45 a.m. a
musician friend of Phoenix offered him some high-grade
Persian Brown. 'Try this and you'll feel fabulous.' As
soon as Phoenix snorted it he started trembling and shaking
in front of the sink. He screamed at his friend, "What did
you give me? What the fuck is in it?"
J
"snorted"? thanks. Of course he was probably already under the
influence.
J
RABinME
the TV"
JL
>
> Apparently we believe everything that we read, or "it must be true, I saw it on
> the TV"
The biography is unauthorized as I said before. The writer
did interview River's friends, directors and associates. It
is documented in the book. An authorized biography is often
only the information the family or the person wants
released. The previous poster said there was no evidence of
track marks on River's skin. The reason could be in the
chapter I quoted.
JL
Crisalis3
The reports I got said that the autopsy didn't
reveal any evidence of needle marks. If a
different story came out later I never heard
about it. I assume autopsy documents include
every little pimple and scratch mark found by
the coroner. The report didn't conclude that
River hadn't shoot heroin, but concluded that
there was no evidence that he had. If I'm
wrong, post a followup telling me so, thanks
J
> The reports I got said that the autopsy didn't
>reveal any evidence of needle marks. If a
>different story came out later I never heard
>about it.
Thanks.
>I assume autopsy documents include
>every little pimple and scratch mark found by
>the coroner.
Yes, they do. But in River's case, I don't know why but I always
wonder what happened between the medical people, the police, and the
family. I'm not talking about suppressing information, but I don't
know.
>The report didn't conclude that
>River hadn't shoot heroin, but concluded that
>there was no evidence that he had.
This is what makes the circumstance surrounding River's death so
confusing. It's easier for me to say I'm sorry he's gone; he had such
talent and promise.
J
J
"How about right now's a good time."
Mr. Reeves' response to my autograph request
See Keanu&D* http://www.mindspring.com/~bgrinc
TarlaStar
>On 9 Nov 1998 16:44:23 GMT, cris...@aol.comethalley (Caro) wrote:
>
>< But it's true that in every
><thing an actor does he or she is like saying
><"here I am, please like me". They're selling
><their very beings to make a living, so it's not
><like any other occupation. When an actor is
><rejected, there's noone more pathetic.
Actually it's a good deal like several other occupations: professional
artist, musician, dancer, writer. Any performing artist is required to
put their very beings on the line.
*****
"Oh this age! How tasteless and ill bred it is."--Catullus
*****