She's Alive.
angelpet
surroundings by now. Perhaps she's met some new friends (I doubt it)
or maybe her little sister Lori has come to visit by now. (boy, Lori
must have been counting her lucky stars Paul wasn't interested in HER.)
They will probably go to Old Port and sip on some Ice Caps, maybe
lounge around "les Terrasses" and watch the street entertainers. Maybe
they will go watch a movie at the IMAX or go shopping for new shoes.
Maybe Karla will go to Brault and Martineau or the Brick or IKEA for
some new furniture. She's free. And alive. Unlike her victims Leslie
Mahaffey and Kristen French...and Tammy.
uwb
> Unlike her victims Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French...and Tammy.
There is only one monster in this picture and he's in prison for life, and
Karla Homolka put him there. Other than for Karla he'd have been out in
less than ten years and other people would have been raped and killed.
The original info ban produced a tidal wave of bad information on this case
and the basic facts of the case are exculpatory with respect to Karla
Homolka. When doctors first saw Karla they described her as weighing 85 lbs
and as having undergone an ordeal over a period of six years which was
entirely similar to that of WW-II death camp survivors.
Picture one of those Auschwicz survivors being sent to prison for twelve
years for whatever he or she had to do to stay alive between 1935 and VE
day and walking out of prison for the first time in 1957, and you've got
the Karla Homolka story.
I mean, the kind of thing you see with Karla is pretty much understood by
now:
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/McGillivray/Karla_Homolka.html
"Galligan sets out the reconstruction process. Homolka had been seen by ER
physicians in St. Catherine's on her admission to hospital and her lawyer
had insisted on a psychiatric evaluation before going forward with the plea
bargain. She was admitted to a Toronto hospital on 5 March 1993. Her stay
of over six weeks for evaluation and treatment was much longer than
expected. She was placed under the care of a consulting psychiatrist in
prison and was evaluated by two psychiatrists and two psychologists chosen
by the Crown. Psy reports stress anxiety and depression, learned
helplessness, post-traumatic stress disorder, "pyschic numbing" (p. 152),
lack of affect and other sequelae of psychological torture and abuse—in
short, battered women's syndrome. All agreed that Homolka showed no
evidence of masochistic tendencies, psychosis or sexual "deviance". Her
abuse was chronicled by category—physical, sexual, 'psychological including
evidence of domination" (p. 155)—in relation to the murders, assaults and
Bernardo's extramural rapes. One psy evaluator writes that she was
"hoodwinked and intimidated [and] believed that she was trapped in the same
manner that an abused wife considers herself to be trapped and then having
to fend for her life" (p. 80). Another explains that she is a
"concentration camp survivor".
"Indeed Karla's experience since her age 17, could be to some degree,
compared to the experiences of concentration camp survivors who as well
experienced horrendous tragedies and had to go through and perform actions
in order to survive that under normal circumstances they would clearly have
stayed away from, but in the interest of self-preservation or in the
interest of preserving other people's lives, did see themselves [as1
helpless and went through the actions as had been required of them. (p. 77)
All of that is aside from what we know of outright brainwashing and the
so-called Stockholm Syndrome of course.
It all adds up to enough of a doubt that I would have not felt good about
sentencing Karla to more than about six years for her role in her sister's
death, and that would have been every bit of it. After that, she was
basically walking around in a state of shock.
The question I'd have for all of the experts who keep on insisting that none
of these psychological findings are real would be this:
What other parts of modern science and technology do you not believe in?
What about automobiles? Are those a figment of our imaginations? Do you go
up and down the highway on horses?
What aout airplanes?
What about modern mathematics, and things like cosine transforms (jpeg
images)? Are those also all fake and worthless?
What about modern medicine? Do you go to your local voodoo doctor when you
get sick?
tk
"uwb" <u...@uwbomb.net> wrote in message news:PIYBe.2911$Zu1.1987@trnddc04...
> and as having undergone an ordeal over a period of six years which was
> entirely similar to that of WW-II death camp survivors.
Wow. I've read some stupid things, a lot of which inside this group...but
you are the winner. You compared that sub-human scum of a monster to genuine
victims of horrific ordeals...stunning.
Start with she offered up her sister for rape, video taped it, killed her,
then celebrated Christmas. I don't need anything after that. Game over.
Poor Tammy. To Hell with Karla.
JRRR
>
> There is only one monster in this picture and he's in prison for life, and
> Karla Homolka put him there.
Your opinion and definitely not of the majority.
> Other than for Karla he'd have been out in
> less than ten years and other people would have been raped and killed.
maybe, maybe not - we'll never know
> The original info ban produced a tidal wave of bad information on this case
> and the basic facts of the case are exculpatory with respect to Karla
> Homolka.
Did you see the tapes?
> When doctors first saw Karla they described her as weighing 85 lbs
> and as having undergone an ordeal over a period of six years which was
> entirely similar to that of WW-II death camp survivors.
Wow, 85 lbs... I only saw the pics of her with Paul, their wedding, her
with two black eyes and her prison pics - and I thought I had read most
of the newspapers on the case during that time - I wonder how I missed
seeing Karla so wasted away?
>
> Picture one of those Auschwicz survivors being sent to prison for twelve
> years for whatever he or she had to do to stay alive between 1935 and VE
> day and walking out of prison for the first time in 1957, and you've got
> the Karla Homolka story.
Do they want a capp too? <g>
>
> I mean, the kind of thing you see with Karla is pretty much understood by
> now:
>
> http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/McGillivray/Karla_Homolka.html
>
> <snip>
> She was placed under the care of a consulting psychiatrist in
> prison and was evaluated by two psychiatrists and two psychologists chosen
> by the Crown. Psy reports stress anxiety and depression, learned
> helplessness, post-traumatic stress disorder, "pyschic numbing" (p. 152),
> lack of affect and other sequelae of psychological torture and abuseâ€=3F
> in short, battered women's syndrome.
Battered women's syndrome - here's an interesting article:
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/domestic_violence/battered_women.html
> All agreed that Homolka showed no
> evidence of masochistic tendencies, psychosis or sexual "deviance". Her
> abuse was chronicled by categoryâ€=3Fphysical, sexual, 'psychological including
> evidence of domination" (p. 155)â€=3Fin relation to the murders, assaults and
> Bernardo's extramural rapes. One psy evaluator writes that she was
> "hoodwinked and intimidated [and] believed that she was trapped in the same
> manner that an abused wife considers herself to be trapped and then having
> to fend for her life" (p. 80). Another explains that she is a
> "concentration camp survivor".
>
> "Indeed Karla's experience since her age 17, could be to some degree,
> compared to the experiences of concentration camp survivors who as well
> experienced horrendous tragedies and had to go through and perform actions
> in order to survive that under normal circumstances they would clearly have
> stayed away from, but in the interest of self-preservation or in the
> interest of preserving other people's lives, did see themselves [as1
The experiences of concentration camp survivors would likely entail
continued experience or exposure to horrendous tragedies (perhaps even
on a daily basis) and victims were probably not privy to many normal
circumstances during their ordeals. Karla on the other hand, did
maintain regular employment, attend family and social functions, etc.
etc. I personally, fail to see the comparison.
When considering BWS, one might consider the usual questions considered
(not just all the psych hoopla) to one claiming to suffer from it
- why do you stay and put up with the abuse?
- does your abuser abuse your children also? and why would you allow
this?
- do you require some sort of assistance to leave?
Whether BWS is a science or a sham, I don't believe one would normally
propose a question involving the words rape, torture and killing of
teenage girls...when questioning a women with "BWS".
You say 6 yrs for Karla? I'm glad you weren't making the decision.
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Olaf Timandahaff
uwb
>
> You say 6 yrs for Karla? I'm glad you weren't making the decision.
>
>
There actually is a certain amount of real info on the story available on
the net. For instance:
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/law/Courses/McGillivray/Karla_Homolka.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karla_Homolka
JRRR
ya ya, uh huh, saw that "story"
as I said, glad you weren't making the decision
what's your point?
>
>
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Bob
Jake <Queen...@netright.org> wrote in message
news:q80hd1t4cb32og274...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:41:19 GMT, uwb <u...@uwbomb.net> wrote:
> >
> Other than for Karla he'd have been out in
> >less than ten years and other people would have been raped and killed.
I don't know who wrote this statement abive but it's simply not true. Even
without the tapes, Paul assured himself a life sentence when the police
found out through DNA that he was the Scarbrough rapist.
Bob
JB
You see, that is the complexity of all of this. The comparison was not
ubw's, it was the psyc doctors that evaluated Karla at the time. So if
you personally fail to see the comparison, I understand, as I assume you
are not a trained professional in this field. However, apparently, a
trained professional did see the comparison.
>
> When considering BWS, one might consider the usual questions considered
> (not just all the psych hoopla) to one claiming to suffer from it
>
> - why do you stay and put up with the abuse?
> - does your abuser abuse your children also? and why would you allow
> this?
> - do you require some sort of assistance to leave?
These are questions that are asked about many abusive relationships,
however, people do not end them, the abuse continues. There is a study
doen of seven (7) "normal" women that eventually hooked up with sexual
sadists and all of these women comitted horrible sexual crimes. When
the sexual sadists left there lives, things returned to normally. These
case studies are almost identical to the Paul & Karla situation,
therefore telling one that the "conditioning" is very real. If you read
it, I believe you wouldn't fail to see the comparison.
>
> Whether BWS is a science or a sham, I don't believe one would normally
> propose a question involving the words rape, torture and killing of
> teenage girls...when questioning a women with "BWS".
>
> You say 6 yrs for Karla? I'm glad you weren't making the decision.
>
>
>
>
>
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JB
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:41:19 GMT, uwb <u...@uwbomb.net> wrote:
>
>
>>angelpet wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Unlike her victims Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French...and Tammy.
>>
>>There is only one monster in this picture and he's in prison for life, and
>>Karla Homolka put him there. Other than for Karla he'd have been out in
>>less than ten years and other people would have been raped and killed.
>
>
>
> The only women Bernardo fucked, that ended up dead, are the one's who came face
> to face with Karla.
So what does that mean? Bernardo has sex with girls, killed them and
Karla has met them before they died?
JRRR
says...
>>The experiences of concentration camp survivors would likely entail
>>continued experience or exposure to horrendous tragedies (perhaps even
>>on a daily basis) and victims were probably not privy to many normal
>>circumstances during their ordeals. Karla on the other hand, did
>>maintain regular employment, attend family and social functions, etc.
>>etc. I personally, fail to see the comparison.
> You see, that is the complexity of all of this. The comparison was not
> ubw's, it was the psyc doctors that evaluated Karla at the time. So if
> you personally fail to see the comparison, I understand, as I assume you
> are not a trained professional in this field. However, apparently, a
> trained professional did see the comparison.
Yes, the comparison was by psych doctors that evaluated Karla at the
time. Regardless of your assumption, I had an opinion and posted it.
> These are questions that are asked about many abusive relationships,
> however, people do not end them, the abuse continues.
Some people do end them (end the abusive relationship) JB
> There is a study doen of seven (7) "normal" women that eventually
> hooked up with sexual sadists and all of these women comitted horrible
> sexual crimes. When the sexual sadists left there lives, things
> returned to normally. These case studies are almost identical to the
> Paul & Karla situation, therefore telling one that the "conditioning"
> is very real. If you read it, I believe you wouldn't fail to see the comparison.
In addition to committing horrible sexual crimes, did these "normal"
women (in the study you refer to) murder or assist in murder or even
view such an act? If not, there is no comparison to the "Paul & Karla
situation".
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JB
>
> Anyways, there's also a reggae festival going on in Montreal this
> weekend...so maybe she's there.
> She could be standing next to you in line at the local Provigo, Metro,
> IGA, SuperC, Maxi or Lowblas grocerie stores. She apparently won't
> have any meat in her cart as she's supposedly a vegetarian....Maybe
> she's at GrifGraf getting pictures for her bare walls.
> She could be soaking up the sun at the Lachine Canal, maybe she'll try
> roller-blading. She might come up to pet your dog....she seems to have
> been a real dog "lover" in her past...
>
>
> And what's this about brainwashed uwb? Did her her lunatic co-killer
> swing a yo-yo in front of her. Whisper things in her ear when she was
> sleeping? She had a chance to tell someone that he was the
> Scarbourough Rapist and she didn't. She could have told her mom or her
> best friends at least. Then she would have left him and either she or
> her parents or her friends or someone could have called the cops and
> got that other psycho-serial-rapist off the streets. But she
> didn't...instead she called one of her friends over to the house,
> drugged her and let her serial-rapist boyfriend have his way with her,
> while she humped their pet dog.
> That's brainwashed?
There have been other cases which indicate it is some sort of
"brainwashing", "conditioning", etc .... and I think uwb is trying to
point out is that if it happened in the past, it could happen again. If
you read the articles, reports and publications, you'd noticed a very
real comparison between the past studies and the relationship between
Paul & Karla.
That's jealousy. She was jealous Paul was raping
> women and children in the GTA. So she put her foot down. If he was
> going to do it anymore, he was going to have to do it at home.
>
> Anyways, remember Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French, and Poor Tammy,
> and Jane Doe, and of course all the rape victims of that psycho husband
> of hers that she could have saved, but chose not to.
>
JB
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:34:14 -0400, JB <jbn...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Jake wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:08:36 -0400, JB <jbn...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>The only women Bernardo fucked, that ended up dead, are the one's who came face
>>>>>to face with Karla.
>>>>
>>>>So what does that mean?
>>>
>>>
>>>It means Karla killed them, not Bernardo.
>>
>>But that's not what it says. It say that Bernardo has sex with women
>>that Karla met.
>
>
> Bernardo raped many women, BUT the only girls who ended up dead, were those
> raped and tortured by Sweet Karla.
>
So, Bernardo ONLY killed women that Karla raped and tortured.
Interesting theory.
Bob
> Wow. I've read some stupid things, a lot of which inside this group...but
> you are the winner.
Lets not forget that it was Galligan who first made that comparison with the
death camp survivors.
JB
Nor Galligan, it was Dr. Arndt, psychiatrist, that reported the
following. Galligan just included the doctors' notes in his report,
which included Dr. Arndt findings / observations.
"Indeed Karla's experience since her age 17, could be to some degree,
compared to the experience of concentration camp survivors who as well
expereinced horrendous tragadies and has to go through and perform
actions in order to survive that under normal circumstances they would
clearly has stayed away from, but in the interest of self-preservation
or in the interest of preserving other people's lives, did see
themselves helpless and went through the actions as had been required of
them."
So if you read it correctly, Dr. Arndt is NOT comparing Karla with a
concentration camp survivor, he his comparing her past relation /
experience with Paul and frame of mind that describes her lack of clear
thought to conduct what we would call "normal" actions, like freeing the
girls, allowing her husband to rape, etc .....
Murray Anderson
came face
> >>>>to face with Karla.
> >>>
> >>>So what does that mean?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >But that's not what it says. It say that Bernardo has sex with women
> >that Karla met.
>
> Bernardo raped many women, BUT the only girls who ended up dead, were
those
> raped and tortured by Sweet Karla.
>
killed - only the ones Karla knew about.
Murray Anderson
Murray Anderson
"angelpet" <ange...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121526214.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Anyways, there's also a reggae festival going on in Montreal this
> weekend...so maybe she's there.
> She could be standing next to you in line at the local Provigo, Metro,
> IGA, SuperC, Maxi or Lowblas grocerie stores. She apparently won't
> have any meat in her cart as she's supposedly a vegetarian....Maybe
> she's at GrifGraf getting pictures for her bare walls.
> She could be soaking up the sun at the Lachine Canal, maybe she'll try
> roller-blading. She might come up to pet your dog....she seems to have
> been a real dog "lover" in her past...
>
>
> And what's this about brainwashed uwb? Did her her lunatic co-killer
> swing a yo-yo in front of her. Whisper things in her ear when she was
> sleeping? She had a chance to tell someone that he was the
> Scarbourough Rapist and she didn't. She could have told her mom or her
> best friends at least. Then she would have left him and either she or
> her parents or her friends or someone could have called the cops and
> got that other psycho-serial-rapist off the streets. But she
> didn't...instead she called one of her friends over to the house,
> drugged her and let her serial-rapist boyfriend have his way with her,
> while she humped their pet dog.
Bernardo didn't tell her he was the Scarborough rapist till the spring of
1991. It would have been useless to tell anyone since he would simply deny
it, then beat her up. He'd given a DNA sample back in Nov. 1990 so that was
all the proof anyone needed that he was innocent. The police and most
everyone else thought that she had been invovlved in her sister's death,
that the two girls were doing drugs and Bernardo was covering up for her.
As for the dog - Bernardo wanted her to have sex with the dog, but it never
happened.
> That's brainwashed? That's jealousy. She was jealous Paul was raping
> women and children in the GTA. So she put her foot down. If he was
> going to do it anymore, he was going to have to do it at home.
>
Bernardo was having sex with all kinds of women in St. Catharines - she
wasn't jealous, since by this time she hated him and just hoped he'd die. He
was blackmailing her.
> Anyways, remember Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French, and Poor Tammy,
> and Jane Doe, and of course all the rape victims of that psycho husband
> of hers that she could have saved, but chose not to.
>
As a matter of fact she did try to save her sister by trying to get me to
come over that night.
Murray Anderson
Olaf Timandahaff
end 0' the line for BIG Murray Anderson:
[~~~]
>>
> As a matter of fact she did try to save her sister by trying to get me to
> come over that night.
>
concerned,,,fuckheid
angelpet
Murray Anderson wrote:
>
> Bernardo was having sex with all kinds of women in St. Catharines - she
> wasn't jealous, since by this time she hated him and just hoped he'd die. He
> was blackmailing her.
>
No he wasn't, he was RAPING them and she knew it.
Blackmailing her?
> >
> As a matter of fact she did try to save her sister by trying to get me to
> come over that night.
Are you a doctor?
Bob
> As a matter of fact she did try to save her sister by trying to get me to
> come over that night.
>
> Murray Anderson
>
>
Murray, the more you speak the more you give me the impression that you fit
the profile of people Karla must avoid talking to. In fact, I think they
are included in her restrictions for freedom.
Bob
Bob
> Bob Murray keeps making this bullshit claim but did you know he has NEVER
met
> Karla.
I hope he has never met her...Or shall I say: Will never meet her, because
the citizens of Quebec would have a real reason to worry.
Bob
Murray Anderson
Of course not - this was early in the evening. She wanted someone to protect
her from Bernardo, and I only heard about it through my mother,
Murray Anderson
Bob
> Of course not - this was early in the evening. She wanted someone to
protect
> her from Bernardo, and I only heard about it through my mother,
>
> Murray Anderson
Why not call the police instead of calling a distant cousin whom she had
never met? Or even better...Tell her Sister Tammy? ....Or Lori?...Or Mom?
Or Dad? Karla had many friends despite what has been said here. Someone
could have helped. Why do you think you were her best recourse? Or why do
you think SHE BELIEVED you were her best recourse?
Your story lacks substance. Can you please provide a little more details so
some of us can believe you?
Bob
Olaf Timandahaff
to say about that...
I think he's da bomb dewds & dewdettes.
Murray Anderson
"Bob" <b...@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:GXbDe.2621$Qi4.3...@news20.bellglobal.com...
She had no evidence against PB. After all, he'd just given a DNA sample.
As for calling someone else, she didn't know anyone who wasn't blinded by
PB. I must have had a reputation for disliking him (and that was true).
Murray Anderson
Bob
> She had no evidence against PB. After all, he'd just given a DNA sample.
> As for calling someone else, she didn't know anyone who wasn't blinded by
> PB. I must have had a reputation for disliking him (and that was true).
>
> Murray Anderson
So, what are you saying? You had a "reputation for disliking him". Does
that mean that you did see him at least once before? I have to assume that
if you had a "reputation" for disliking him, you must have seen him even
more than once. But, you never met Karla?
As someone said earlier...Things that make you say hhmmmmmmm
Bob
Bob
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:57:40 -0700, "Bob" <b...@bobby.com> wrote:
>
> >As someone said earlier...Things that make you say hhmmmmmmm
>
Ya I forgot it was you Jake. Or I wasn't sure.
Bob
JB
> In article <EA0Ce.15866$js.1...@fe10.lga>, jbn...@optonline.net
> says...
>
>>>The experiences of concentration camp survivors would likely entail
>>>continued experience or exposure to horrendous tragedies (perhaps even
>>>on a daily basis) and victims were probably not privy to many normal
>>>circumstances during their ordeals. Karla on the other hand, did
>>>maintain regular employment, attend family and social functions, etc.
>>>etc. I personally, fail to see the comparison.
>
>
>>You see, that is the complexity of all of this. The comparison was not
>>ubw's, it was the psyc doctors that evaluated Karla at the time. So if
>>you personally fail to see the comparison, I understand, as I assume you
>>are not a trained professional in this field. However, apparently, a
>>trained professional did see the comparison.
>
>
> Yes, the comparison was by psych doctors that evaluated Karla at the
> time. Regardless of your assumption, I had an opinion and posted it.
>
>
>>These are questions that are asked about many abusive relationships,
>>however, people do not end them, the abuse continues.
>
>
> Some people do end them (end the abusive relationship) JB
Agreed and thankfully so.
>
>
>
>>There is a study doen of seven (7) "normal" women that eventually
>>hooked up with sexual sadists and all of these women comitted horrible
>>sexual crimes. When the sexual sadists left there lives, things
>>returned to normally. These case studies are almost identical to the
>>Paul & Karla situation, therefore telling one that the "conditioning"
>>is very real. If you read it, I believe you wouldn't fail to see the comparison.
>
>
> In addition to committing horrible sexual crimes, did these "normal"
> women (in the study you refer to) murder or assist in murder or even
> view such an act? If not, there is no comparison to the "Paul & Karla
> situation".
>
>
The study includes descriptions by these women of their relationships
with the sexual sadist by beatings, captivity, being bound, anal rape,
forced fellatio, foreign object penetration, scripting, intentional
torture and recording of sexual acts. Then proceeds to quote a sexual
sadist as stating "I never thought it would be so easy to kill a perosn,
or that I would enjoy it. But it was easy and I was enjoying the
feeling of supremacy. A supremacy like I have never known before."
Which indicates to me that the sexual sadist relationship involved
killing, however, the study does not list specific acts for each women.
angelpet
Anyways, there's also a reggae festival going on in Montreal this
weekend...so maybe she's there.
She could be standing next to you in line at the local Provigo, Metro,
IGA, SuperC, Maxi or Lowblas grocerie stores. She apparently won't
have any meat in her cart as she's supposedly a vegetarian....Maybe
she's at GrifGraf getting pictures for her bare walls.
She could be soaking up the sun at the Lachine Canal, maybe she'll try
roller-blading. She might come up to pet your dog....she seems to have
been a real dog "lover" in her past...
And what's this about brainwashed uwb? Did her her lunatic co-killer
swing a yo-yo in front of her. Whisper things in her ear when she was
sleeping? She had a chance to tell someone that he was the
Scarbourough Rapist and she didn't. She could have told her mom or her
best friends at least. Then she would have left him and either she or
her parents or her friends or someone could have called the cops and
got that other psycho-serial-rapist off the streets. But she
didn't...instead she called one of her friends over to the house,
drugged her and let her serial-rapist boyfriend have his way with her,
while she humped their pet dog.
That's brainwashed? That's jealousy. She was jealous Paul was raping
women and children in the GTA. So she put her foot down. If he was
going to do it anymore, he was going to have to do it at home.
Anyways, remember Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French, and Poor Tammy,
JB
Murray Anderson
I can dislike someone without ever seeing him. My mother from time to time
told me about his latest deeds. In fact, with someone like that you probably
get a more accurate impression if you don't meet him. My mother could never
convey why she saw anything good in him - she once said "I wish you could
meet him . . ." - because of course there wasn't anything good there.
In fact when I did meet him in 1993 he did convey a pathetic impression when
I wouldn't buy the air purifier he allegedly was selling. His words were
"You're not prepared to give it a fair trial ", but it was the way he said
it which carried the effect.
Murray Anderson
Bob
> I can dislike someone without ever seeing him.
Like, I dislike Bush but, I never met him...Is that a good comparison?
Whatever...lol!!!
Bob
JB
with Karla and her panties. I have no fantasies regarding her, never
had and never will. I just don't see her and the main source of evil
in the saga.
Jake
> I have no fantasies regarding her
LOL!
You have your head so far up Karla's ass you can taste her lipstick.
Roger
2 mouth and according to Jake, paul is a good budy, love make blind, poor
Jake :-( well you can go see him at the jail in the caravan of love and
don't forget to bring some rubber (condom) he like brutal anal.
--
Tiger
"Jake" <Queen...@netright.org> wrote in message
news:f8dvd114tepa6eh2e...@4ax.com...
> Of course Murray disliked Bernardo. Bernardo was fucking the woman of
Murray's
> wet dreams, Karla.
> Murray's dislike is based on jealousy.
> Murray actually has dreams of a poor Karla shunned by society having to
run to
> his arms. And he would be such a kind and gentle lover, unlike that mean
nasty
> Bernardo.<g>
> Murray probably beats off to this fantasy every night.
>
> Bob, Murray is seriously bent.
> Anyone who supports Murray in this group, like JB, also has a bent agenda
> although JB is crafty enough to hide it.
> They hope that by befriending loonie Murray they might actually be able to
get
> close to Karla themselves.
>
> Karla lovers are a sick wacky bunch! That's why I love this group!<g>
>
>
Gloria
Jake <Queen...@netright.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:24:43 -0700, "Bob" <b...@bobby.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> I can dislike someone without ever seeing him.
>>
>>Like, I dislike Bush but, I never met him...Is that a good comparison?
>>Whatever...lol!!!
>>
>Of course Murray disliked Bernardo. Bernardo was fucking the woman of Murray's
>wet dreams, Karla.
>Murray's dislike is based on jealousy.
>Murray actually has dreams of a poor Karla shunned by society having to
run to
>his arms. And he would be such a kind and gentle lover, unlike that mean
nasty
>Bernardo.<g>
>Murray probably beats off to this fantasy every night.
>
>Bob, Murray is seriously bent.
>Anyone who supports Murray in this group, like JB, also has a bent agenda
>although JB is crafty enough to hide it.
>They hope that by befriending loonie Murray they might actually be able
to get
>close to Karla themselves.
>
>Karla lovers are a sick wacky bunch! That's why I love this group!<g>
>
>
Why is it that everyone who bases their opinion on the fact that Karla was
a tool of Paul's hand, do you assume are "Karla lovers"
JB
Because Jake cannot comprehend that some decisions need to be done
without emotion. I have stated many times that I believe Karla was
involved in kidnapping, rape and murder, however not alone in addition
to that I have zero feelings towards Karla or anyone that can commit
crimes of this nature.
No one that knows anything about this saga can deny the facts that Karla
was involved just as no one can deny Paul was, however I seek the reason
why Karla got involved. Jake cannot distinguish between what happened
or the reason why, therefore he keeps posting events that happened (most
being false but that's a different issue).
IMO the reason why conflicts with that thought that Karla was always the
root of evil, hence, in Jake's mind that makes one a "Karla lover". I
don't understand how he comes to the conclusion that I have a "thing"
for Karla because it's not true.
Bob
> don't understand how he comes to the conclusion that I have a "thing"
> for Karla because it's not true.
No, you never gave me that impression JB...In the 3 or 4 years that I have
"known" you, I never got that impression. Even though, I disagree with
almost everything you say.
Bob
JB
Bob,
I have no problem with a disagreement, as long as you have done the
research, which of course, it seems you have. I know we agree on what
happened and that Karla was involved, however we may disagree on the
reasons why.
Gloria
>don't understand how he comes to the conclusion that I have a "thing"
>for Karla because it's not true.
End
JB, I agree 100%, however emotion is still involved no matter who you are
if you are a follower of this case..just as I was moved when investigating
these horrific crimes, and can relate directly to so many factors of this
case.I am sure there are reasons behind why jake thinks Karla is the spawn
of satan himself, just as there are reasons you believe that Karla was willing,
but also coerced or using the term lightly, forced into her involvement.
I think Karla never meant to kill anyone and her involvment in the actual
killing was damage control.
She had to clean up Paul's mess.
I know I felt and still feel, emotionally involved.
I am merely trying to imply that Jake doesnt have to call people names in
order to express his opinion.
Jake
>I think Karla never meant to kill anyone and her involvment in the actual
>killing was damage control.
>She had to clean up Paul's mess.
LOL!
Gloria you are seriously warped.
I like that in a poster!
Gloria
I agree I am warped a bit, but only in the fact that I can try to picture
it from Karla's perspective, as well as from pauls. I believe paul was the
true spawn of satan, and karla was not right in the head and got caught up
with this sadistic "bastard"..he was the mastermind and Karla his scapegoat,
his slave who would have done anything for him. ANYTHING..I am not denying
that this is no excuse for murder and rape, but a key factor of this one..
and your anger should be based on Paul's involvment and manipulation.
Jake
>>LOL!
>>Gloria you are seriously warped.
>>I like that in a poster!
>End
>
>
>I agree I am warped a bit
Much more than a bit.<g>
Gloria
Jake, dont talk as though you know me, cause you dont. I admitted I am a
bit warped, whay else do you want from me???
again you are stooping to insults, that have nothing to do with the PB &
K we are supposed to be talking about..
My point of veiw may be different than yours or other's, but it is My perspective,
and I am entitled to it..at least I am not that warped I cannot recognise
this..
Jake
>Jake, dont talk as though you know me, cause you dont
And thank God for that!!!
Women who can be driven to kill when their men blow in their ear are not someone
I want to know personally.
Gloria
Hmmm.jake, I see JB's theory that when you are proven wrong, you resort to
personal attacks. I would not kill anyone, even any animal..I simply dont
have it in me.. And for the record Jake, I am the Dominant one in my relationships.
You think you know me but you dont. Youre way off target. Besides, we are
not here to talk about My character, or yours, or anyone else's, but PB
& K. I was hoping when I came here in fact to find some of the banned material,
but I found it all so amusing, so I had a seat ..
Jake
>Hmmm.jake, I see JB's theory that when you are proven wrong
Wrong?
for_gloria
> Hmmm.jake, I see JB's theory that when you are proven wrong, you resort to
> personal attacks. I would not kill anyone, even any animal..I simply dont
> have it in me.. And for the record Jake, I am the Dominant one in my relationships.
>
> You think you know me but you dont. Youre way off target. Besides, we are
> not here to talk about My character, or yours, or anyone else's, but PB
> & K. I was hoping when I came here in fact to find some of the banned material,
> but I found it all so amusing, so I had a seat ..
Here is are some of the most widely spread rumors about the case, circa
1994.
In cases such as the Homolka/Bernardo, because there is a publication
ban on evidence presented at trial, many, many rumors have cropped up
concerning it. Most of these rumors have appeared in past FAQs, on the
newsgroups, or on the Teale Tales Mailing List. Michael Wass* has taken
the time to examine these, and has confirmed (from his own sources) the
truth or untruth of most of them.
In the following section, the contributors of these rumors have been
identified by the notations [NP]- (Neal "The Trial Ban Breaker"
Parsons), [FN]- ('Fake Neal'), [LT]- (Lt. Starbuck), [AB]- (Abdul),
[MW]- (Michael Wass), and [?]- (Unknown or anonymous contributor).
1) [NP]- "I'll say right now that this is hearsay but fairly reliable
since I am sixth removed. Karla worked in animal clinic and Kristen
French allegedly did some high school co-op at the same place, thereby
becoming familiar with Karla, and that allowed the young girl to be
lured to a car in a parking lot. Without Karla's previous relationship
with Kristen, old Paul the pervert would have had a much more difficult
time getting a young girl into his car, with the concern that existed
at that time in St. Catharines."
[MW]- Kristen French did not work in the Martindale Animal Clinic and
was in no way connected to Karla Homolka, or Paul Bernardo, prior to
her abduction. Kristen was lured to the car by Karla, who held a road
map and asked Kristen for directions.
2) [NP]- "What I'm about to write may be true, and it certainly is
sick. This goes to the time when Paul had Kristen bound and kept in his
St. Catharines abode. Evidently Paul wanted Kristen to perform oral sex
on him. Kristen refused the first request, so with Karla running the
video camera, Paul began to pull out Kristen's teeth one by one until
she agreed and was willing to perform the act. This came out at Karla's
trial since she was the videographer at that time and seems pretty sick
that anyone would sit and watch/record such disgusting torture."
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
3) [NP]- "I heard that it was said in court that Paul decided he wanted
to `do' Karla's young sister. To that end he asked Karla to bring home
a quantity of chloroform from the clinic. Being the person she was (is)
she complied with that request. We move now to the night of Karla's
sister's death [Tammy], that was said to have been caused by choking on
vomit induced by alcohol. Well that is not what court heard. That night
Paul took the chloroform that Karla had brought home, and gagged the
poor youngster. From that point Paul (and Karla) took turns doing
things to the unconscious girl while one or the other of them filmed
the entire sordid episode (we're back to the snuff film question again)
for posterity. Being rather stupid (which we know both of them seem to
be) they used too much chloroform and that resulted in her choking to
death. That seems more and more likely with the sudden need to look at
the body again by the police."
[MW]- Paul did have an affection for Karla's baby sister Tammy Lyn
Homolka. There was no chloroform stolen, nor was any used on Tammy.
Tammy was drugged with a sleeping medication called Halcion (proper
medical spelling of often misspelled Halcyon). The drug would likely
have been via prescription and may have been purchased illegally on the
streets. There was never any intention to kill Tammy Lyn, rather, she
was to be tranquillized with a combination of alcohol and Halcion. Who
administered the drugs is not known; both parties blame each other. It
is alleged though, to have been Karla who encouraged her sister Tammy
to play a game in which the alcohol, a combination of Rum and Coke and
Rum and Eggnog, was drunk in one long series of swallows.
While Tammy Lyn was unconscious, Paul Bernardo is alleged to have
sexually assaulted her. Afterwards, Paul carried Tammy to her bed. It
was after this that Tammy began choking on her vomit. Karla began
wailing, and Paul attempted to resuscitate Tammy. Mrs. Dorothy Homolka,
alarmed by Karla's screams, came to the scene and called for emergency
help. Tammy was never revived, but at the time, Paul was a bit of a
family hero for his attempts to save the life of Tammy Lyn Homolka.
4) [FN]- "Some of us might have thought what prompted the cops to
scrutinize more closely the death of Tammy Homolka. Was it a hunch?
Karla herself? Or something else? Turns out it comes under the
`something else' category. My sources in the pathologist's office
(corroborated by a nurse at one of the larger Southern Ontario
Hospitals) advise me that it wasn't a hunch or luck or whatever that
prompted the cops to dig up Tammy, nor did Karla squeal. What it was,
was in one of the videos that they scooped as evidence from the house.
In it, there was a tape of an unknown woman having a threesome with
Paul and Karla. It puzzled the cops as they weren't able to identify
this girl at first. It was neither French nor Mahaffy. Then (likely
through a routine check of the Homolka premise) someone noticed the
resemblance to Tammy this woman had. This of course led to the
exhumation of her body.
[MW]- This information is false. Karla, as a major bargaining chip for
her plea bargain, notified her lawyer of her version of the
circumstances of Tammy Lyn Homolka's death. Her lawyer used this
information in securing Karla Homolka's plea bargain. Part of that
bargain is that Karla will never face charges regarding her sister's
death.
[FN]- It increases the likelihood that the `rumors' of videotaped
evidence confiscated are likely pretty accurate (and we ALL are
guessing at to what the other videos contain).
[MW]- Police did have a pornographic videotape. The videotape, as
previously mentioned, contains scenes of Karla engaging in lesbian
child pornography acts with Leslie Mahaffy.
[FN]- It would appear that Karla was less than forthcoming about ALL
aspects and activities involving her relationship with Paul. Which
leads to the strong likelihood she could get nailed with other stuff,
once Paul is safely ensconced for the rest of his unnatural life behind
bars."
[MW]- The deal is done. Unless evidence of some new crime is found,
perhaps contained in the "new evidence," Karla will face no further
charges.
5) [NP]- "Rumors heard via the Kitchener-Waterloo fire department:
Two undercover cops show up at the Waterloo, Ontario home of a pretty
blonde young lady and ask her if she has recently lost her wallet. She
says no. They ask her again, are you sure? She says no, she didn't lose
it recently. They ask her, `Have you lost your wallet in the last year
or so?" She says, `Yes, I lost it at the Old English Parlour (a
Waterloo pub) about 9 months ago. I remember that because it was a real
pain to replace all my ID.'
The cops pull out a wallet and ask her if this is it? She identifies it
as hers with all her identification, etc. They then say, 'We don't mean
to alarm you, but we found this is Paul Teale's house.' They fully
believed she was to be his next victim.
[MW]- Nine sets of I.D.'s were recovered. These included photograph bus
pass, and school I.D.'s.
6) [NP]- "Another rumor is that Bernardo washed the house down (or at
least the areas where the girls where held) with an acid solution. This
destroyed all cells removing even genetic clues as to the girls
presence. Karla's testimony may be the only `hard' evidence against
Paul. Once again, this is unsubstantiated rumor, and facts may show
otherwise (or even indicate that this is not possible)."
[MW]- The house was washed down. However, I will not discuss the
circumstances of this event, including who actually washed the house,
at this time. Police do possess at least one piece of DNA evidence. As
reported in the "Teale on Trial" segment of "A Current Affair," a
blanket was recovered that had a small amount of blood on it. Until the
recent reports of "new evidence," Karla's testimony would have been the
main event in the Crown's prosecution of Paul Bernardo.
7) [?]- "This info comes from a friend who `talked to a cop in the
investigation'. Hearsay, I guess, so take it for what it's worth.
During the search of the house they took everything. Toilets, pipes
etc. Evidently they were looking for evidence that was flushed or
poured down the drain. The movies were with Karla and others including
animals. This may sound gross but, it was said that there was animal
sperm on the victims."
[MW]- The house, including plumbing fixtures was examined for possible
DNA evidence. At that time, there was only one videocassette, and the
tape has been explained earlier in this text. As for animals or
bestiality, this is totally false and may be discarded.
8) [AB]- A representative from Black and Decker, a shop technician who
is the father of a friend of mine, was called in to identify saw marks
on Mahaffy's body. This was not done directly, but through some
photographs that were shown to him.
[MW]- Although I do not speak with authority on this point, it is not
unreasonable to assume this did occur. Police did recover, from Lake
Gibson, the circular saw allegedly used to dismember the body of Leslie
Mahaffy.
9) [AB]- The daughter of a Durham staff-sergeant (another friend) told
me that Bernardo/Teale was under surveillance for many months prior to
the actual arrest, and that they knew as early as 1991 he was a
suspect, but had no hard evidence.
[MW]- Paul was brought in for questioning on the "Scarborough Rapist"
in November of 1990. He left a saliva sample for DNA testing and was
released, but he was only one of hundreds of possible suspects that
left DNA samples for testing. At that time, the CPIC computers were
programmed to activate a warning if a query regarding Paul Bernardo was
requested, but he was not under surveillance at that time.
10) [AB]- Karla liked to take some animal drugs home from the vet's
place where she worked, but the vet looked the other way.
[MW]- Karla did steal plastic medical gloves, and she may have taken
drugs from the clinic, but the amounts of drugs would have been small.
Small enough quantities that they would escape detection and be covered
as lost inventory. The veterinarian had no knowledge of Karla's
activities.
11) [AB]- Paul used to go out with Karla, pick up another girl, and
take him home with Karla in tow, claiming she was his sister. Karla
would sleep out on the couch while Paul did his thing.
[MW]- Paul did have some extramarital sex. As to the method he used in
meeting woman, or if Karla was involved, I have no definitive answer.
12) [AB]- Karla's sister, who died from choking (supposedly), was
dragged up the stairs, dead, by Paul into a bedroom before police were
called (unknown what happened in there - that's where she was `found'.)
This dragging was done by the feet, by the way.
[MW]- Tammy Lyn Homolka was put in her bed when Paul Bernardo and Karla
Homolka were finished with her. However, as described previously, it
was not a case of being "found." There was a failed attempt to
resuscitate Tammy Lyn Homolka.
13) [AB]- The Teales/Bernardos didn't exhibit ANY outward signs of what
was going on. My source got rides home from Paul all the time and said
he seemed like `the nicest guy you'd ever meet. I was so happy for
Karla.'
[MW]- I have heard many similar comments and agree this is true.
14) [AB]- A videotape exists that shows French watching another
videotape of Mahaffy being cut to bits (from a colleague of counsel for
the defense for Homolka's trial)."
[MW]- Unless contained in "new evidence" videos, consider this false.
There was never such a videotape.
15) [AB]- The Teales made French eat all of her hair - autopsy reports
found her innards caked with the stuff. They cut off one of French's
fingers and toes each day she was held in captivity.
[This has been discounted by one user who says that he remember a
picture of the body, under a tarp, which clearly showed fingers
protruding. Also, there are reports that a convicted cult murder in
Quebec did similar amputations to his victims. Perhaps the two cases
have been confused.]
[MW]- Kristen's fingers and toes were not cut off, nor was she forced
to eat her hair. That is false and may be discarded. This subject will
be covered in great detail during a further writing.
16) [AB]- A videotape exists of Paul performing cunnilingus on French's
dead, rigamortized and black-blue body. Karla follows him. Afterward,
they both had intercourse with the corpse.
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
17) [AB]- Paul had logged hundreds of hours of footage with his video
camera. He stalked his victims well with the camera. There were more
wallets turned in that the original case reported earlier back.
Personally I have heard of three people whom the police informed that
Teale had their property or had them on videotape in public places.
Apparently a favorite of Paul's was the Scarborough Town Centre, a
large east-end Toronto mall."
[MW]- Paul was know as a voyeur from early childhood, and so it is
likely that he did stalk and film people. As I mentioned earlier, at
least one instance of videotaping and stalking is on record, and nine
sets of I.D. were recovered by police. Since Paul was raised in
Scarborough, it is not unreasonable to assume that the "Town Centre"
would be a place Bernardo would visit.
18) [LT]- "It was a severe beating by a flashlight at the hands of Paul
Teale that caused Karla to squeal to the police in January 1991, as
reported by both the Washington Post and "A Current Affair". What
neither of them mentioned was a little known detail heard in the
courtroom. The flashlight that Paul used for Karla's beating was just
moments before being employed as a dildo."
[MW]- Paul Bernardo did use a flashlight to severely beat Karla
Homolka. However, the flashlight was not used a dildo. That is totally
false and may be discarded.
19) [LT]- Apparently Karla and Paul were involved in the murders
together, but Karla feared for her life next so she turned Paul in with
the videos they had made. After about a minute in Paul's house they had
enough to nail Paul but they didn't want to make any mistakes. There
was also a sound proof room inside the house.
[MW]- I don't know about a fear of death, but Karla does claim to have
feared her former husband because he possessed videotapes of herself
engaged in lesbian acts with a child. As for the evidence recovered,
police found little evidence in that house. Without Karla's confession,
Paul Bernardo probably would not have been charged. Finally, there was
no attempt at a sound-proof room in the house. There was an attempt to
improve acoustics in the room having been previously mentioned as
"sound-proof."
20) [LT]- Karla and Paul wanted to have sex with Karla's sister Tammy
so they drugged her with horse tranquilizers so that she wouldn't know
what was happening. Once they were done they couldn't revive her and
had to kill her by forcing her to vomit (which she choked on.)
[MW]- That is totally false and may be discarded.
21) [LT]- Mahaffy was the first girl they abducted and she died
accidentally (probably due to malnutrition). Paul cut her up, incased
her in concrete and dumped her in the lake. He didn't let the concrete
set enough and the body parts floated to the surface.
[MW]- Leslie Mahaffy was the first girl to be abducted, but she died of
asphyxiation due to strangulation. Leslie's body was cut up and encased
in cement. However, the water levels in Lake Gibson, where Leslie's
body was dumped, lowered after she was dumped, and the cement encased
body became visible.
22) [LT]- French was the next girl. First thing they did was take out
her finger nails so there wouldn't be any skin left under them. (One of
the postings here refers to Paul's smarts, of which he has lots, and
without Karla's help they would never have been able to nab him.)"
[MW]- French was the second girl to be abducted. The rest of this is
totally false and may be discarded.
23) [LT]- Apparently part of the delay in the trial had to do with a
small contingent of RCMP who travelled to Japan in order to procure
Paul Teale's `home' snuff videos, which were evidently circulating in
the Japanese sex underground. Supposedly Teale made some good money
from this venture, which is supposed to account for how he could afford
a nice home while as an unemployed accountant. Evidently in these so-
called snuff video(s?), the rooms where the crimes were committed is
shown, which is why the police wanted to get a hold of these, so they
could get a closer look, and thus
search for evidence (DNA, etc.) in the areas that were shown.
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
24) [LT]- "Teale had a habit of driving around Port Dalhousie with his
lights off videotaping couples who were "parking". In the four days
leading up to his arrest, Teale logged over 1,800 miles. Driving to not
only suburban areas in Toronto, Newmarket and Burlington but also
crossing the border and driving to Pennsylvania and Canton, Ohio. As
soon as he crossed the border, the FBI was on his ass, hoping to spot
who he might have sold his previous videos to. Nothing came of it, he
just cruised around. They are investigating other disappearances in the
States in connection with
him.
[MW]- The idea of the FBI looking for videotape buyers is speculation.
The rest of this is truth.
25) [?]- "Around the time of one of the kidnappings, the vet lab that
Homolka used to work at was burglarized. Various drugs, anesthetics,
surgical tools, etc. were stolen, apparently for use on the victims.
The lab mysteriously burned down after the body was found.
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
26) [?]- "Teale cut the tendons of the victims, while they were still
alive, to prevent them from escaping may be how the cops were able to
link French's death with that of Mahaffy, despite one of the bodies
being cut up."
[a corroborating response:] "This is almost certainly true. A friend of
mine's wife works as a nurse in a hospital and she told us that a few
slow nights when she was talking with the cops she learned that is how
the police connected the French/Mahaffy slayings... both bodies/remains
of bodies had this trademark. I've heard it from at least two other
non-related sources as well. It's accurate."
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
27) [?]- "Homolka masturbated with the severed hand of one victim. Some
say it was the head.
[MW]- This is totally false and may be discarded.
28) [AB]- According to a Globe and Mail article on December 4, 1993, by
Derek Finkle (who co-produced the Teale segment on ACA with Mary
Garofalo), Paul Bernardo changed his name to Teale to distance himself
from his family. Finkle writes: "(Bernardo) started to change at the
age of 16, after his mother told him he was illegitimate. His real
father, Paul told Van (Smirnis, Paul's childhood friend and best man at
his wedding, who was interviewed for ACA), was a prominent Canadian
businessman. Dying his hair blonde years earlier and changing his name
from Bernardo to Teale in February (1993) were both efforts to distance
himself from his Portuguese heritage."
[MW]- Paul was not illegitimate. These statements were made by a person
who was being paid to talk, and as such, should be considered
questionable. Mr. Kenneth Walter Bernardo is Paul Kenneth Bernardo's
biological father. I don't know that there is a point of when Paul
began to change. He was known as a sexual deviant while still quite
young.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karla Letters
(many of these are widely published, but some I haven't seen in a
while)
Yearbook entry:
Non-sequiturs from an autograph book salutation she wrote for a friend
in Grade 9, which Homolka claims not to remember: ``Hi! I don't know
what to say except that I love this class and I'm really going to miss
it! Come in and see me at the pet shop sometimes . . . Love ya, Karla.
Goodbye. Remember: Suicide kicks and fasting is awesome. Bones rule!
Death kicks. I love death. Kill the fucking world. Men's underwear.''
Love letters:
On 7 January 1988
"Dear Paul,
I feel I must write this letter, although I have said it all over the
phone. I am so sorry for what I have done. I hate myself. I know I
don't deserve it, but I am begging for another chance. I wish you could
find it in your heart to love me again. Hearing you say 'I don't love
you any more' was one of the worst moments of my life. Then there was
'I don't want you.' I only pray I don't hear the final 'I'm breaking up
with you.' I love you so much, and I wish to God you could believe me.
I know I don't have the right to ask you to. I guess I've really
screwed things up. The best person - the only person I ever loved - in
my life and I deceived and hurt him. I hate myself for that. Part of me
wants to let you go. Oh, you deserve someone perfect - someone who is
truly yours. But there are no perfect people in this world. You may
find your virgin, but there will be something wrong with her. I know
many -no- all of the girls have said this to you but nobody will ever
love you as much or as intensely or as deeply as I do. After you, there
could never be anybody else. You are such an incredible man, no one
else could come close. I couldn't even attempt to find someone to
replace you. And I won't. You have captured my heart, my life - and it
will be yours forever.
I am telling you the truth. I wish to God I wasn't such a stupid idiot.
I'll pay for the rest of my life for what I've done. If you can find
the slightest bit of love or forgiveness, please hold onto it. We can
rebuild our relationship. I can be the perfect girlfriend if I only try
hard enough. Please, please give me another chance to. Thinking of you
in another girl's arms tears my heart in two. I want to die when I
imagine my life without you. Whatever could I do or be without you by
my side? I need you so much. You told me that coming clean now would be
much better than having you find out later. I only thank God I told you
now. If this is better, I hate to think what it would have been like
later. In the past I might have wished that I hadn't told you. Not
now."
May 4, 1988
Paul's birthday card to Karla:
"Karla, Happy eighteenth birthday!!! ... to someone who gets cuddlier
every year. That's you, my little rat. My eighteen year old little
girl! My honey-bunny. My little ____ ______. My Karly Curls. My little
____. Blanks to be filled in. My little ___. Verbally only. My little
fantasy. Lot's and lot's of love. Your hero and mine, Paul Bernardo."
The blanks, Karla said, where names they used during sex. They
represented: My little cock sucker; My little cunt; and My little slut.
He liked her to say those names in that order, she said, while they had
sex.
April 27, 1988
"Dear Paul,
I just called you but nobody's home, at least nobody answered. Where
are you? Who are you with? What are you doing? Those are the questions
burning in my mind. I want to talk to you so badly (and much more than
that I want to see you). I ache to be with you. It is Wednesday at 9:16
p.m. Just think - if this were any other normal week we'd be together
right now. How I wish we were.
Guess what? My parents are going to a dance tomorrow night. They'll be
going for a long time. Want to come over and play. I know, I know. We
have to learn to work together as well as play together. How does a
50-50 mixture sound to you? Okay, 60-40 (work to play?). Sounds good to
me! Please say yes. Please. Please. Please. Please! I'm on my knees
begging, begging in the way you love most.
You know, there's only one short week for you to enjoy your cute little
17-year old girlfriend! Better take advantage of it (and her) while you
can. And how can you resist your cute, cuddly furry little creature,
your adorable little rat, your sweet little Karla-Curls, your very own
little fantasy, your loving princess, calling to you, begging on her
hands and knees to come and spend a short few hours with her? You
can't, can you? I didn't think so.
You know what I love? Having you make love to me on my bed room floor
with my parents in the next room. Having you ram it inside me, making
me gasp for air. Having us united spiritually and physically as one.
You turn me on so much, Paul. Just thinking about you and your perfect
body excites me so I can hardly stand it. Oh your strong chest, your
muscular arms, your beautifully shaped legs, your hard flat stomach,
and Snuffles ,oh Snuffles. The pleasure I get from touching, from
licking, from sucking. Snuffles is indescribable. I love him when you
shoot it into my mouth. I want to swallow every drop and then some. And
seeing you in your suit does incredible things to me.
The power you wield over me is indescribable. Sometimes when you come
directly from work and we sit on the couch together I have to use every
ounce of my strength to keep from ripping off my clothes, from begging
you to have mercy on me and make love to me. You make me so horny.
There's just something about you. Paul, when you caress my face and my
body you send shivers up and down my spine. My whole body tingles with
your touch.
How can I love you so much? I do love you such an incredible amount, an
amount I never thought possible. In fact, the words 'I love you'
don't even come close to expressing my full feelings for you. With you
in my life I feel complete. I feel whole. With you by my side, I know
that nothing can go wrong. You have done so much for me Paul - you have
taught me what love really is. You have opened my eyes to a new way of
thinking and being. I am so happy to be. I love you,
Karla. XOX."
Karla's self-improvement list:
August 22, 1989
"Never let anyone know our relationship is anything but perfect. Don't
talk back to Paul. Always smile when you're with Paul. Be a perfect
girlfriend for Paul. If Paul asks for a drink, bring him one quickly
and happily. Remember you're stupid. Remember you're ugly. Remember
you're fat. I don't know why I tell you these things because you never
change."
The infamous wedding letter:
Feb 19, 1991
"The wedding plans are great, except my parents are being assholes.
They pulled half the money out of the wedding saying that they can't
afford it. Bullshit. Fuck my parents. They're being stupid. Only
thinking of themselves. My Father doesn't even want us to have a
wedding anymore. He thinks we should just go to City Hall. Screw that.
If he wants to sit at home and be miserable, he's welcome to! He hasn't
worked (except for one day!) since Tammy died. He's wallowing in his
own misery and fuck me! Tammy always said she wanted a forest green
Porsche for her sixteenth birthday. Now my Dad keeps saying, 'I would
have bought it for her, if only I'd known.' That's bull. If he really
felt like that, he'd be paying for my wedding because I could die
tomorrow. He's such a liar. And the real reasons we moved out. My
parents told Paul and I that they wanted him to stay at home until the
wedding. They wanted their privacy (after they told him that he was
their son and that they needed me as a daughter). First they took away
half the wedding money then they kicked us out. They knew how much we
needed to be together but they didn't care. What assholes."
Karla fearing her marriage plans are in danger:
May 4, 1991
"You hate me. You say you want to go out with other girls (after you've
left me). You say I make you sick. You tell me to pack and leave, you
tell me to eat shit and die. You have every reason to tell me these
things. I am a no good fucking idiot. I don't know how to show my love
and respect. You think I have no respect; I want to show my lover
respect. I make so many huge mistakes. I'm stupid. I'm probably really
stupid in saying this, but I'll say it anyway. I think - but I must
remember here that I am stupid - that if we truly loved each other the
way we thought we did (in the past tense) we would have been able to
overcome anything. I don't care how big the mistakes are or how many
times they're made, I think that love should overcome it. I have
screwed things up so much that the love that should be there isn't.
It's not supposed to be like this. You aren't supposed to say things
that hurt me. I'm not supposed to say things that hurt you. I can say
I'll change 'til hell freezes over. But I haven't yet so why expect
that I will now? I desperately want to. I want us to be happy like we
used to, but I think that you hate me too much for that to ever
happen."
Karla's infamous diary entry:
January 21, 1993
"I'm so confused about what to do with my life. I don't know where I
should live, or what career I should choose. What I want is security. I
want so badly to go back home and live with Mom and Dad and Lori, work
at Martindale again. I want to live freely in St. Catharines and not be
terrified to go out alone. I need to live a normal life. I love being
here where I am, but I miss my old world - not Paul but everything
else. I don't want to give up all my personal possessions, but I'm
afraid to go back, having him see me and rekindle the hatred he has for
me. I'm not afraid he'll tell any of my secrets. He has everything to
lose on two things and a lot to lose on a third."
When, on 30 May 1994, prompted to elaborate on her "secrets, " Karla
said , "The first two would be the homicides of Kristen and Leslie and
the third would be Tammy."
Wedding invitation placed in Tammy's coffin:
Dear Tammy, my dearest little sister, words cannot express the deep
sorrow and regret that I now feel. You gave me your love, and trusted
me like your big brother. We shared a lot of good times and you touched
my heart in a way that no one else ever could. I loved you Tammy. I
always have and always will. I miss you so much and my life will never
be the same now that you're gone. If I ever caused you any harm or
pain, Tammy, please forgive me. I only wanted the best for you. Just
for you to be happy and to experience the joys of this world. I'll love
you from now 'til eternity and I'm looking forward to seeing you again
once I die.
Love,
your brother Paul
XOXO
Dear Tammy
I have so much to say to you that words cannot express. I've talked to
you every night and you know how I feel about everything. I know this
card shouldn't be used, but I want to give you the thoughts it holds to
carry with you. I love you deeply and will hold you in my heart
forever.
Your big sister,
Karla
XOXO
P.S. I love and miss you with all my heart. I hope you're in God's
hands. I love you and can't wait to see you again. Kar.
Letters before prison:
January 15, 1993
"I've also been in a lot of meetings with Green Ribbon. And trying to
finish up my course and study for my exam. And of course trying to
mentally prepare myself for the preliminary. Right now I'm in a pretty
good mind frame. I just hope it lasts! Actually part of me is really
looking forward to it. I'm trying not to put so much pressure on myself
about it. The police don't help though. I am feeling mega pressure from
them. I don't think they're doing it intentionally. You know they say
all kinds of things and then on top of that everyone keeps telling me,
"Oh, you'll do great." Maybe so, but hearing it all the time sometimes
makes me think if I don't do great I'll be disappoint everyone. Well,
I'm trying to change my way of thinking."
April 14, 1993
"Wow! I only found out about it a few hours before the media did. I was
kind of mad at first, believe it or not. I was so geared up for it, so
prepared, and so looking foward to getting out from behind these walls.
I was very angry because I went through all of those meetings in
Feb/March apparently for nothing. But about an hour later, I was really
happy about it. It's very frustrating though - constantly being built
up to do this, then everything changes ... I'm at the point where I
just want to get it over with. I'm past the point of never wanting it
to happen."
June 5, 1993
"I brought a bottle of beaujolais (to a party) and drank the whole
thing and wasn't even halfway drunk. My tolerance is ridiculously high.
But I had a really good time. It's nice to get out of the house once in
a while."
"The reporters keep coming back and hanging around because they don't
have a really good current photo of me yet. It's kind of like a game
now, trying not to let them get a picture ... I plan to move, on my
own, to Brampton. I can't stay in St. Catharines, people hate me here,
and I will never get a job. I had such a good time in Brampton and I
have a lot of good memories there, plus an aunt and uncle who are
fantastic. I really need single girlfriends to go out and meet men
with."
Letters from prison:
October 5, 1993
"I started seeing one of the psychologists in addition to the
psychiatrist last week. I felt like I was on the verge of another
breakdown. Why exactly, I don't know. It could have something to do
with the fact that an inmate got stabbed a while ago."
"I'm going through some really difficult times dealing with the death
of our relationship. That's how I'm trying to treat it - like a death
-because I think it'll be easier to deal with that way. I am really
having a hard time with this. I almost would rather have had him die,
because then I'd at least be able to grieve properly. And visit his
grave and say goodbye. As it stands, here I sit knowing I'm going to be
seeing him god knows how many times ... "
October 28, 1993
"You know, I'm really enjoying being a student. It feels so good. I am
so glad I decided to go back. I'm really glad I have the opportunity. I
am looking so forward to getting out of here and rebuilding my life. I
can't wait to see what the future holds for me- a new job, a new
husband (...a loving one this time!) children..."
"Paul made me into a very insecure person. Hopefully that will all
change in time. I am trying to really change myself back into a newer,
better version of the person I was before I met Paul. I have a new
therapist. She and I get along really well and she is really helping
me. I absolutely HATE the psychiatrist here now. I only see him every
other week now. He told me the last time I saw him that I would never
heal until I told him all the details of what happened. Asshole. He is
so mean and cruel. So now I don't really tell him anything."
November 24, 1993
"I'm really nervous about the future. When I'm finally released, that
is. I know I really should be concentrating on things in the nearer
future like court. But I just can't bear to think about such a painful
thing anymore. You know it's really not fair. My trial is over and done
with, but none of the pain is. Well, the pain will never be gone, but
talking about it will just make it raw ... Our life wasn't supposed to
end up this way."
December 15, 1993
"Whenever I think about it (the preliminary and trial) I get a sick
feeling. It's going to be so hard. The cops were here asking more
questions last week and it was awful. And they were nice! Paul's
lawyers are going to try to put the whole thing on me. It will be one
of the worst things I'll ever go through. But I keep reminding myself
that this is all a million times better than living with him. And it
is, truly."
"(That card) fits perfectly with my Mickey Mouse posters, hey, I'm
getting Sesame Street towels and sheets on Friday. My room is going to
be the most juvenile in the whole institution, but hey - I like it that
way."
"I know what you mean about loving Christmas. It's always been my
favorite time of the year. Of course since Tammy died things haven't
been the same. But one thought I've always held is that she wouldn't
want us to live in misery over the holidays."
December 16, 1993
"Maybe this isn't healthy, but I don't even think to myself that I'm in
Prison For Women. I think I'm away at school. Whether it's healthy or
not, it works - I don't feel all that bad."
"I'm growing my bangs. Or at least trying to. They're really irritating
me. I'm going to give them until March - If I don't like them then I'm
cutting them!"
"I have to get my laundry together. It's Friday and Fridays are my
laundry and "house" cleaning days. It really makes things difficult
though because we've been locked up for two weeks! Why, I don't know,
but it's really starting to drive me crazy. It's not that I mind that
much being locked in. (After all I'm out all day with the Crown). It's
just that it's hard doing laundry - You have to bug the guards
constantly to get out to change loads. Washing and sweeping the floor
is almost impossible because there's just no room ! And the thing that
really angers and upsets me is this phone call thing. While we're
locked up we're only allowed a maximum of two 15 minute phone calls a
week. It's next to impossible to say everything in 15 minutes!"
"I'm going to sue Paul for the return of my clothes and personal items
plus a bunch of other stuff - TV, VCR, stereo, dining room set, china
and silver and a lot more. Wedding dress, photos, you know. Oh well,
I'm not letting him have everything. Also, my divorce will be final in
a month or 2. It really feels weird to say that. You know I don't
believe in divorce. But this is not your normal situation."
December. 21, 1993
"I am constantly thinking about what my life is going to be like when I
leave here. I am going to live so differently. Life with Paul ... as
well as being in prison really opens your eyes to how life should be
lived. I am going to do the things I always loved to do but never got
to do. I'm going to start horseback riding again. I'm going to take
lessons and even learn to jump! I also want to do volunteer work - I
would love to work on the Kids Help Phone and I've decided what I want
to do - work with abused women. I want to work to help prevent women
from being abused and also to work with women who have already been
abused. I want to go out on picnics with my friends and sister. Life is
going to be so great when I'm out of here. I will never take anything
for granted again in my life!"
"My mom told me that a girl has filed a $10 million lawsuit against me,
Paul and some apartment building. She claims she was raped in 1989 by
him and that I knew or should have known and should have stopped him
and also that they building was deficient in security. So far I haven't
been served with any papers ... Wow! I don't know what this woman
thinks she's going to get because Paul and I are broke!"
Letter to her parents and Lori about Tammy:
March 1993
Dear Mom, Dad and Lori,
This is the hardest letter I've ever had to write and you'll probably
all hate me once you read it. I've kept this inside myself for so long
and I just can't lie to you any more. Both Paul and I are responsible
for Tammy's death. Paul was "in love" with her and wanted to have sex
with her. He wanted me to help him. He wanted me to get sleeping pills
from work to drug her with. He threatened me and physically and
emotionally abused me when I refused. No words I can say can make you
understand what he put me through. So stupidly I agreed to do as he
said. But something - maybe the combination of drugs and the food she
ate that night - caused her to vomit. I tried so hard to save her. I
am so sorry. But no words I can say can bring her back. I would gladly
give my life for hers. I don't expect you to ever forgive me, for I
will never forgive myself.
Karla -XOXO
Letter to her lawyer about her remembering the Jane Doe rapes:
October 6, 1993
Dear George,
I am having a major problem. I've remembered something else that I have
to tell Bob Gillies. Paul Raped Jane Doe, a friend of mine. I don't
remember much of it. I can picture it happening in our livingroom. She
was drunk and had passed out. The next thing I remember is her falling
off of the bed upstairs. I've been racking my brain for days now,
trying to piece the whole thing together, but I just can't. I can't
even go to my Doctors for help because they'll just report it. What I'm
really afraid of is that I was more involved then I can remember. Bob
and Mary Lee showed me a still photograph taken from that videotape and
I couldn't identify it. What if it was me with Jane Doe? Why didn't I
remember all of this when they first questioned me? I have to tell
them, but what if they nail me for this too? Can you do something to
make sure they don't?
I can't talk to you on the phone at all because the conversations are
recorded and listened to. They never read mail to and from lawyers -
they can't - so this is the only safe way for me to talk to you. Please
write back soon with some advice. And also remember that I want to tell
them. I feel guilty and have to get it off of my conscience. Thanks
George. I feel like I'm going crazy.
Karla
And for those of you still here,
http://web.elastic.org/~fche/mirrors/old-usenet/homolka.transcript
the above link cannot be viewed in Canada, -cough/proxy/cough
Lanze
and re sent?>
Gloria
>
>the above link cannot be viewed in Canada, -cough/proxy/cough
>
Wow you put alot of work into your task, Thank You uhhh..timbit? I had heared
of these conversations, and the names of those involved, but never experienced
it quite like this..
again my thanks,
Gloria
Jake_is_a_legend_in_his_own_mind
Lanze wrote:
> wow ..thanks unknown poster....any chance of getting the last url translated
> and re sent?>
>
>
Karla Homolka never faced a trial. On 28 June 1993, proceeding s
regarding the plea she was to enter began. Over the next two days,
lawyers
for the Crown, defence and media lawyers fought over the possibility of
a
publication ban on the hearing. The Crown and Homolka's counsel sup
ported
a ban. Paul Bernardo's defence team, and all media lawyers, opposed
such
a restriction. On 30 June 1993, the trial judge, Mr. Justice Franci s
Kovacs, remanded the court until 5 July 1993, at which time he woul d
reveal his ruling on the matter.
In St. Catharines, on Monday 5 July 1993, the courtroom, as it ha d
been since the Homolka hearing had begun, was packed with over 150
people. The French and Mahaffy families sat in the first five rows on
on e
side of the public spectator gallery. Karel, Dorothy and Lori Homolka
sat
on the other side.
Justice Kovacs said he agonized over his decision -then he ruled that
a publication ban on evidence presented during Karla Homolka's hearin g
would be imposed. In a three hour statement, he allowed accredite d
Canadian journalists, three police officers from the Green Ribbon Task
Force, Crown and defence lawyers, the accused, the families of the
victims,
and court personnel to hear evidence. Bernardo lawyer Timothy Bree n
would be allowed to attend the trial, but was not allowed standing to
address the court. The American media were banned from the proceedings,
and, incredibly, Kovacs also banned the Canadian public, saying that a
spectator may act as a secret source for the American foreign media.
"I make the following order under s.486(1) of the Code in the in terest
of the proper administration of justice. (1) The Canadian media o n
proof of accreditation to the Court Services Manager may be admitted
to the trial. (2) For reasons given, the public is excluded from the
courtroom except, (a) the families of the victims, (b) the family of
the
accused, (c) counsel for Paul Bernardo-Teale who will not hav e
standing, (d) three police officers, (e) the Court's law clerk, Mrs .
Padeanu. (3) For reasons given the foreign media is excluded from the
courtroom. (4) There will be no publication of the circumstances of
the deaths of any persons referred to during the trial. And the y
shall not be revealed directly or indirectly to a member of th e
foreign press. The following may be published, (1) The contents o f
the indictment. (2) Whether there was a joint submission as to
sentence. (3) Whether a conviction was registered but not the plea.
(4) The sentence imposed. (5) That part of the Court's reasons under
the following headings: (a) The Prosecutorial discretion (as referred
to in the court's reasons on sentencing only), (b) The Principles o f
sentencing applied by the Court."
Inside court, angry spectators vented their frustration and booed the
Kovacs' decision.
Once again, professor Alan Young spoke out; he said the ban was ver y
strange. The fact that a publication ban was granted at the request of
the
prosecution and supported by Homolka's lawyer, George Walker, whe n
Bernardo's lawyers were opposed, was, he said, completely unfounded and
disturbing. Sarcastically, Professor Young suggested that since th e
prosecution had requested the ban because of their concerns that
Bernardo's right to a fair trial could be compromised without it, Crow
n
Attorneys might want to continue to show the same concern for an
accused
persons rights in the future. "What I would like to see is Crown's
raising
constitutional claims on behalf of the accused," he said. "If this is
the way
Crown's are going to act, they should start saying, 'That evidence
shouldn't
go in, My Lord, because it could prejudice the accused.'"
Professor Young ended his scathing attack by stating, "I've never
heard,
really, in an adversarial system of justice, of an adversary protecting
and
promoting the rights of his or her opponent. I don't know how the Crown
has the gumption, quite frankly."
On 6 July 1993, the courtroom was devoid of the public to which it i s
supposed to be accountable. Court began.
HIS HONOUR HONOUR: Firstly, my apologies for the delay. I had a meeting
with the
staff to emphasize the confidentiality of that part of the proceedings
o n
which I ordered a non-publication ban. Secondly, I would like to thank
the
media for the very orderly way that you came in this morning, without
an y
problem and that you freely and readily identified yourself to the Cour
t
Services Manager, and for signing in, in that process. I w ant to be
sure that
there is no one in this courtroom who should not be here, in other
words,
that every person here is an accredited member of the Canadian media. I
s
there anyone in this courtroom who is not, does not fit into that
category?
There is no one standing, or so indicating.
I shall call upon the clerk.
MR. WALKER WALKER: Yes.
HIS HONOUR HONOUR: Arraign the accused, please.
CLERK OF THE COURT COURT: Mr. Walker, is that the accused, Karla
Bernardo,
also known as Karla Teale, standing next to you?
MR. WALKER WALKER: It is.
CLERK OF THE COURT COURT: You stand indicted by the name of Karla
Bernardo,
also known as Karla Teale as follows: Karla Bernardo, also known as
Karla
Teale stands charged that on or between the 14th day of June, 1991 and
the 29th day of June, 1991, inclusive, at the City of St. Catharines in
the
Regional Municipality of Niagara, did unlawfully kill Leslie Erin
Mahaffy and
thereby commit manslaughter, contrary to the provisions of Section 236
of
the Criminal Code of Canada. On count one of this indictment, how do
you
plead, guilty or not guilty?
THE ACCUSED ACCUSED: Guilty.
CLERK OF THE COURT COURT: You also stand charged that between the 16th
day of April, 1992 and the 30th day of April, 1992, inclusive, at the
City
of St. Catharines in the Regional Municipality of Niagara, did
unlawfully kill
Kristen Dawn French and thereby commit manslaughter, contrary to th e
provisions of Section 236 of the Criminal Code of Canada. How do you
plead to count two of this indictment, how do you plead, guilty or no t
guilty?
THE ACCUSED ACCUSED: Guilty.
CLERK OF THE COURT COURT: Harken to your plea, the Court has recorded
it, you plead guilty to count one and guilty to count two?
MR. WALKER WALKER: She does.
Acting Crown Attorney Murray Segal rose, and for the next twenty -
seven minutes, read from a statement of fact jointly agreed to by th e
defence and the Crown. Lori Homolka, Karla's surviving younger sister ,
began to weep. Many of the privileged few allowed in the courtroom were
stunned by the brutality and torture the victims suffered. They wer e
astounded by the callousness with which the blonde woman sitting in th
e
prisoners box participated in these murders. The Mahaffy and French
families, after enduring the reading of the Crown's statement, wer e
emotionally drained. Justice Kovacs called a recess until the fa milies
could
compose themselves.
Court re-convened about 45 minutes later. Debbie Mahaffy, Mother
of Leslie Mahaffy, read a statement detailing the impact of the murders
upon
her and her family. Donna French, Mother of Kristen French, did the
same.
After hearing from the Crown and the mother's of the victims, nearly
every
person in the courtroom was outraged; many openly cried.
Justice Kovacs called another recess.
When Court re-convened, a joint sentencing agreement, produced b y
the defence and the Crown, was presented to Justice Francis Kovacs. A t
4:30 p.m., Justice Kovacs turned his attention to Karla Homolka and
began
a 75 minute lecture.
"This next part, members of the press is not to be reported pending th
e
order for the ban of publication. The aggravating factors are self
evident
even to a callous observer. The conduct of the accused was nothing
short
of monstrous and depraved. It was not isolated conduct. The acts
leading
to the abduction of Kristen French were coldly and calculatingly
planned,
with full participation of the accused. She was present at the death o
f
Leslie Mahaffy and, at least passively, participated in the planning of
he r
death. The facts leading to the death of her own sister indicated
planning
on her part. The accused obtained the anaesthetic which was used to
keep
the victim unconscious and could likely have caused the victim to
vomit. The
victims were but 14 and 15 years of age. It is an aggravating facto r
because the victims at such a young age were so much more susceptible
to
be lured to their deaths. The impact on the victim's families has bee n
unimaginably traumatic. In this case, particularly, the emotional
wounds of
the victims of these crimes are not allowed even a quiet time to heal,
in view
of the constant publicity. While the accused is not the one doing that,
i t
was the nature of the crimes she committed which has drawn that deepl y
hurtful publicity to these victims. She must accept the full
responsibility
for that resulting publicity as an aggravating factor. The impact on th
e
communities of these victims of these horrible crimes is also an
aggravating
factor. Where previously there were community feelings of trust an d
tranquillity, there developed deep rooted fear and concern for the
safety
of the young women in these communities. Parents worst nightmares, s o
grievously suffered by these parents, were aroused. I agree with th e
Crown's submission that there was a deep concern in the community of a
breakdown of the basic moral code by which society operates.
Aggravating
factors, as well, were the circumstances which lead to the deaths of
Leslie
Mahaffy and Kristen French, including cruel confinement, sexual assault
,
torture and wanton cruelty. The careful attempt to cover up the
circumstances of the death of Tammy Homolka and the meticulous and
planned attempts by the accused to eliminate evidence of the deaths of
Lesl ie
Mahaffy and Kristen French, all are aggravating factors. It goes to th
e
consciousness of evil thought processes of the accused. A most distur
bing
aggravating factor is that the accused was left alone with Kristen
French.
She did nothing to help her escape. To the contrary, she stood guard
over
her with a rubber mallet. The accused, too, had an opportunity to hel p
Leslie Mahaffy when the accused was in a room with the victim. She
sought
no help for that victim. The role of the accused in luring Kristen
French
to the car indicated that she was willingly the 'cover'. Without th
e
accused's participation, the trust of that victim would less likely
have been
obtained. The accused placed her own interest and that of Paul
Bernardo-
Teale ahead of the interests of the victims. That is the greatest crim
e
against charity. The crimes shocked not just the victim's two
communities b ut
the whole province and now the country. It caused, too, a most intensiv
e
investigation. Throughout all these events and over a considerable
period
of time afterwards the accused continued to carry on her normal
activities,
apparently unconcerned for other potential victims. She came forward
only
when her own life was in danger. The accused was in the most grievou s
breach of trust to her young sister, who was but 14 years of age. Tha t
trust tragically was misplaced by Tammy Homolka and it led to her
death. Th e
accused has also inflicted grievous and yet untold hurt to her own
parents
and sister who lost a daughter and sister to death and now must endure
the
accused's profound breach of the law for these horrendous crimes. The
accused's acts would cause pain to any parent, and so much more to thi
s
accused's parents who were loving, kind and trusting of the accuse d
throughout her life. I have paused periodically in the course of thes e
remarks because it is important that this accused reflect on the horror
of
these acts."
"These are mitigating factors that I shall cover next, and they are not
to be
reported, as well, members of the press, under the temporary ban. Thi s
accused, by her guilty pleas, has obviated a trial in respect to her
and has
avoided inflicting additional trauma on the victim's families. The law
regu larly
and quite properly, accepts the fact that a plea of guilty is the first
step
and a clear sign of remorse in many cases. More importantly for this
young
person who is only 23 years of age, the acknowledgment of that guilt i
s
hopefully the first step in her rehabilitation. I have considered her
youth;
she is 23 years of age. I have considered her previous unblemishe d
character is also an important mitigating factor. I have considered
too, that
she was described by experts as a battered wife who endured terribly
harsh
physical beatings. Her self esteem was gradually destroyed. Her sense
of
propriety and moral convictions were sublimated. In the accused's case,
not
only was she beaten, but she had to hide physical evidence of beatings
o r
she would be again beaten. She could not get medical attention for fear
of
reprisals by Paul Bernardo-Teale. When she was finally seen in Januar y
1993 in the hospital, the emergency room physician, as I said, is
reported
to have said, that it was the worst case of wife battering he had ever
seen
in his professional experience. I have considered too as a mitigating
factor
that these events, albeit of her own making and for which she must
accept
responsibility will require her to continue to be under psychiatric
care and
as I said, she will have psychological scars. The most significant an d
compelling mitigating factor has been her cooperation with the police
an d
her agreement to cooperate with the prosecution until justice has bee n
done. In view of the great care that was taken by the accused in
concealing
her horrendous crimes, her cooperation is particularly significant. He
r
cooperation is particularly significant in that it has lead, I
understand, to
other evidence."
Justice Kovacs addressed Homolka, asking if she had anything to sa y
before he began. Mr. Walker responded for her.
"Your Honour, I have reviewed this with my client; given the nature of
the offenses to which she's plead to, anything that she could sa y
would certainly sound trite when compared to the facts. She onl y
hopes that by entering the pleas and continuing to assist the Attorney
General's office and employees with regard to the unresolved issues
to follow, that in some small measure she can begin to try and, albeit
in a marginal way, try and undo some of the harm that she has done .
But, she ... as indicated to, she has a long way to go and she's taking
one step at a time."
"This [principles of sentencing] may be reported and is not part of th
e
temporary ban on publication. The Crown has charged the accused unde r
s.236 of the Criminal Code with manslaughter. The maximum sentence fo r
manslaughter is life imprisonment. The maximum sentence in law is
reserved
for the worst offence committed by the worst offender. This accused has
committed the worst crimes, however she is not the worst offender -fo r
whom the maximum sentence is designed. I find she is not the worst
offender
because:
(1) She has no previous criminal record. (2) Most significantly
she has cooperated with the police in giving evidence, some of which
might
not otherwise be available in this type of crime, particularly in
confinement
cases. She gave that cooperation not only in respect of her own
involvement in the crime. This cooperation was, and will be of
particula r
assistance, partly in view of extraordinary steps taken in an attempt
to
conceal evidence in the crime, with respect to another offender. (3 )
By her plea of guilty she has obviated a trial and thus avoided
additional trauma for the victim's families. Therefore, while the
crimes fi t
into the category of the worst crimes, the offender does not fit into
th e
other category, i.e. the worst offender which category is required to
impose the maximum sentence. It is for that reason that the maximu m
sentence
of life imprisonment is not applicable in this case. The paramoun t
consideration in applying the principles of sentencing in a case
involving
shocking acts of violence is that the sentence must be long enough to
deter
others in the community from acts of violence. I keenly appreciate th e
community must be satisfied the sentence reflects the necessity for th
e
protection and safety of the community. In this case, no sentence that
I
could impose would adequately reflect the revulsion of the communit y
against the accused for the death of two completely innocent young
girls,
who both had lived their young lives beyond reproach in the eyes of
their
communities. I am keenly aware of all of that as well. I understand th
e
righteous outrage which the community feels, and properly so. It is th
e
court's responsibility to be objective and to consider the very specia
l
circumstances of this case and this accused. There are serious unsolve
d
crimes, here and elsewhere. There can be no room for error in th e
successful prosecution of the offender for the safety of the community,
whoever that offender may be, and I ask that no inferences may be draw
n
from my remarks in that instance. As I said, the accused gave
significant and
perhaps invaluable cooperation beyond her own crime. T he
rehabilitation of
the individual accused is also a principle to be considered. The
accused is
23 years of age and will require extensive psychiatric care. I am
satisfied
on the basis of the reports which I have and hope that she can b e
rehabilitated. The specific deterrence of the accused is a principle
tha t
courts consider as well, so that the length of the sentence will impres
s
upon this accused never to commit a crime again. Society too must b e
satisfied that the sentence is of sufficient length that society is
protected
from the danger of the accused. The length of sentence and the parol e
board's review procedure, I am satisfied will be a protection to the
public.
The hurt this criminal has inflicted on the victims and their families
is also
an important consideration in the imposition of sentence. It is
fundamenta l
that in this case the victim's families were kept fully informed and ha
d
meaningful input before the joint submissions were made."
"As I have said, I have reviewed the expert opinions as to her
psychiatri c
history and prognosis. It is for all of these reasons that I accept the
joint
recommendation as to the sentence. Stand up. I sentence the accused as
follows:
(1) 12 years imprisonment on count one. (2) 1 2 y e a r s
imprisonment on count two, which is to be concurrent to the other
sentence
in count one. (3) There will be an order, mandatory under s.100 of
the Code, prohibiting the offender from having in her possession any fi
rearm
or any ammunition or explosive substance for her life. I make no order
under s.741.2 of the Code for an increase in the time of parole
ineligibili ty.
I make no such order because the length of sentence is the most
important
factor in the Crown's submission, and I agree. I also do not make such
a n
order as I do not wish to fetter the parole board's discretion in her
placement. I understand that the placement possibilities for women ar e
limited. I do not wish to hamper the treatment of the accused by
imposing a
period of ineligibility for parole. I am advised that the latter term
on th e
sentence was also with full input from the victim's families and the
police ."
The proceeding ended at 5:55 p.m.
Outside, Ted Barrigan of St. Catharines commented on the 12-year
sentence.
"It's ridiculous. It's a terrible tragedy. Two girls mutilated and she
gets a
slap on the wrist. Everyone here is sick about it." Another angry
member
of the community added, "I smell a rat. It's like they bargained for a
conviction. It's like 'Let's Make A Deal'. She got a deal for opening
he r
mouth."
A Niagara police officer drove the mini-van from court again, this time
Karla stayed behind while her family was returned to their home. The
minivan
returned to the court and picked up Karla. Spectators waiting at th e
rear entrance of the court shouted obscenities at Karla as police drov
e
away. Karla was delivered to the Kingston Prison For Women.
Jake_is_a_legend_in_his_own_mind
The Montreal Torture Cases: Christina Sherry and Trazy Gonzalez
committed crimes that were obvious copycats of what Paul Bernardo and
Karla Homolka did, what makes what they did so much scarier is that
there were two Karla Homolka's involved; what's even scarier is the
fact that they were both handed light sentences for their roles while
Medley was deemed a dangerous offender and sentenced to an indefinite
term in prison. Tracy Gonzales was given a 7 year term, which she
served at Joliette. Christina was given a 5 year term, which she also
served at Joliette.
*Christina Sherry was one of the women pictured posing with Karla at
Joiliette.
October 16, 1997
Teen tells of assaults, torture
by Lisa Fitterman, The Gazette
A 17-year-old girl stared fixedly into space yesterday as she recounted
a horrifying tale of assaults, beatings, torture and other humiliations
she said she suffered at the hands of James Medley and Tracy Gonzales
on two occasions last year.
She was testifying in Quebec Court on the first day of Medley and
Gonzales's trial for sexual assault, assault with a weapon, uttering
threats, forcible confinement and attempting to induce someone into
prostitution.
The pony-tailed girl, who cannot be identified, spoke in a monotone and
lost control only once, when she began clawing at her jeans and
fainted. She was wheeled out of the courtroom just before the lunch
break, but came back in the afternoon to continue her testimony.
She told Judge Gérard Girouard that she was held two times overnight
in July 1996 and over 16 days in September 1996 until police found her
handcuffed in a closet and took her to the Montreal Children's
Hospital.
As part of her ordeal, she was sexually assaulted with a baseball bat
and candle sticks, had hot candle wax dripped over her body and was
hogtied in a closet, on her stomach, with her feet and hands bound
together behind her.
The girl, who was 16 at the time, was one of four teens whom Medley and
Gonzales are accused of holding in Medley's Randall Ave. apartment in
Notre Dame de Grâce, one at a time.
The girls allegedly were lured through phone calls to run away from
their youth-protection centres to the apartment, where they were forced
into sexual slavery.
(A third person accused in the case, Christina Sherry, 19, pleaded
guilty last December to eight charges in connection with the forcible
confinement and sexual assault of yesterday's witness. She wept as she
was sentenced to five years in prison.)
The girl, who was wearing jeans, a black T-shirt and an Indian beaded
necklace, said she met Medley in July 1996 when Gonzales, an
acquaintance, called to invite her to Gonzales's birthday party.
She agreed, and met Gonzales and a third girl at the Lionel Groulx
métro. The three ended up at Medley's place, where they watched
television before moving into a bedroom.
The girl said she and Gonzales were drinking vodka, while the other
girl, also a minor, was drinking beer.
Her shoulders hunched, the girl said she drank a full glass of vodka,
then began to feel sick and passed out. When she came to, she said
Medley was in the room, while she was naked and wearing handcuffs and
shackles.
Medley started to beat her about her head, she said, and she was forced
to have oral sex with him. She said she was not allowed to leave until
the next day.
The second incident began Sept. 4, when she ran into Sherry at the
Fairview bus terminus in Pointe Claire and accepted an invitation to go
to Sherry's home. "I thought she was living in Ville LaSalle," she
said.
Instead, they ended up at the same bus stop on Fielding Ave. in N.D.G.
where the girl had been two months earlier. "I was scared. I knew where
I was. I said I didn't want to be here," she said. "Christina gave me a
necklace. She said it would take away my worries."
That was when she heard a familiar voice behind her, she said. It was
Medley, and he held her in a headlock.
The courtroom then heard a tale of 16 days in hell. She was brought
back to the apartment, she said, beaten with a phone book, and then
Medley and Sherry shaved her pubic area and the rest of her body.
She was beaten with fists on her face, chest and back whenever her
captors said she wasn't pleasing them enough, she said something that
happened every second or third day.
Her female captors forced her to drink their urine, she said, while
Medley made her eat his feces. Her nipples were burned with cigarettes.
She recalled being forced to prostitute herself with men named Derek,
George and Melvin, while the few times she was left alone in the
apartment, she was handcuffed and shackled, and placed in Medley's
bedroom closet with a bureau pushed up against the door.
In between the assaults, the girl said she was forced to cook and
clean. She was allowed only one grilled-cheese sandwich a day, she
said, while the other three ate whatever was available, such as pork
chops, chicken and french fries.
Occasionally, she was made to drink a concoction of Bellini wine mixed
with whatever drugs were in the medicine cabinet cough syrup, allergy
pills, sleeping pills and Tylenol.
"I got dizzy and sick," she said. "But I told my body not to pass out."
Her captors called her dog-like names, she recalled, like Puppy,
Lassie, and Girl, and at times, Medley would place a dog collar and
chain around her throat and walk her around the apartment because he
said she was being a good girl.
The girl identified several pieces of evidence that police seized at
the apartment last October, including handcuffs, black leg shackles,
ropes that were used to bind her throat and breasts, and another piece
of rope with frayed ends and black tape thickly wrapped around the
middle that was used as a muzzle. Sometimes, she said, she was also
forced to wear thumb clamps, which resemble a small set of handcuffs.
During her captivity, four people lived in the apartment with her:
Gonzales, Sherry, Medley and his daughter, who is now 10 and in foster
care.
The girl said she always wore clothes when the daughter was around, but
was naked whenever the daughter was absent or in bed.
Under cross-examination by Medley's defence counsel, Hans Gervais, the
girl showed spirit, saying she never once considered telling the
daughter what was going on. "I'm not going to tell a 9-year-old girl
what her father had done to me and other girls," she said. "It would
scar her for life."
Throughout the girl's testimony, Medley and Gonzales sat grimly in the
prisoner's dock, occasionally rolling their eyes.
Gervais continues his cross-examination today.
Lanze
JB
Lanze
"JB" <jbn...@optonline.net> wrote in message
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