john denver may have commited suicide.

[Tk843221]

This is a possibilty we must all face. If he did its important as we can use
that to educate people about depression but I get the impression that no one
here wants to even consider this possibilty. Johns career was in a downward
spiral, 2 marriages end in divorce because of his adultry, 2 DUIs, depression
,what else does one need ?
Tk. I love johns music but i refuse to idolize him. He was often arrogant,
lying,and '
self-serving.

[Diamondsnstones]

>ns music but i refuse to idolize him. He was often arrogant,
>lying,and '
>self-serving.

And then again, often he was not and I think you have things a bit turned
about. One marriage ended because he was never there ( adultery
notwithstanding); the second ended because of her adultery.

[hiwa...@my-deja.com]

Tk...

Your obsession with the "possibility that John may have committed
suicide" is troublesome, especially at this time of the year. And you
*are* obsessed; you can't seem to leave it alone.
John's career was picking up rather well (he hadn't even completed the
excellent 'Let This Be A Voice' when the accident happened). He was on
good terms with both ex-wives, enthusiastic about his new plane,
playing great golf... but I think you already know this.

I replied to one of your posts the other day when I thought that this
'need' you seem to feel for John to have killed himself was perhaps a
way in which you were trying to justify some feelings of your own.

I'm reposting what I said to you... I hope you're okay.

> depression was thought to be a personal weakness but now its a
biochemical
> imbalance caused by chemistry and even a virus.
>
Well... that is absolutely true. When the seratonin levels are too
low, depression (and often other disorders) begin to manifest themselves
into chronic
conditions. Seratonin is the neurotransmiter at the end of nerves -
rather like the cable connection to a television. We need the proper
level in our
system in order to function comfortably.

Luckily, there are many new drugs on the market that manage to correct
the imbalance and maintain the proper level of this body chemical - they
are
referred to as 'seratonin reuptake inhibitors.'

I'm sorry if I jumped all over you regarding the contents of your posts
but you have to admit that you came on pretty strong. I could be
absolutely,
completely 100% off the mark here but I'm getting a kind of 'red flag'
reaction upon rereading your posts. If, by any chance, you are having
problems with
what you would consider to be chronic
depression, or someone close to you is suffering through this, there is
now a great deal that you can do to rectify the situation. As you so
rightly pointed
out, it is *not* a personal weakness but rather a chemical problem that
one could compare to - as an example - diabetes. I feel silly even
mentioning
this: it is certainly *not* something to be ashamed of!!! And, of
course, alcohol should be avoided at all costs.

Hiway

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

[Frits Larsen]

"Tk843221" <tk84...@aol.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:20001223214630...@ng-mf1.aol.com...

Sorry But this is just nonsens John Denver did not Commit Suicide
His plane went down in Monteray Bay run out of fuel
and he did not suffer from any depession

Hmm. Divorce 2 times so WHAT most people have been marrid more then one time
Big deal that just shows John was Human like the rest of us
and my Christmas Whish for this year is ( i hope Santa hear me )
for the people on the newsgroup stop spreding this stupid rumers
and then rember the way people are is WHAT THEY ARE

Let John and His famely rest now and enjoy his Music That they Can't take
away from us

sorry but Untrue Rumers make me Angry
i guess you now know i just love people for what they are
when anything fails when you are loking for the good in
another Human then just look again

Frits Larsen

Denmark

[hiwa...@my-deja.com]

Hello Frits,

> sorry but Untrue Rumers make me Angry
> i guess you now know i just love people for what they are
> when anything fails when you are loking for the good in
> another Human then just look again
>
> Frits Larsen
>
> Denmark

This is an unfortunate remark as it appears as though you think that
suffering from depression is akin to a bad personality trait! John said
that he once mentioned that he had a problem with depression at one of
his concerts (have no idea where or when) and that most people laughed
as they thought he was joking. *That* hurt his feelings, and I
completley understand why.

[Absolutely Cynthia Marie]

I don't think John committed suicide, but I also think that he seemed to
have a devil may care attitude whether he was killed or not. Didn't he say
once when asked if he still wanted to be on the Challenger space shuttle
that it was "a risk to get up in the morning"? I thought that was a strange
thing to say. He did lots of weird, dangerous things. Invincibility
complex? But no, I don't think it was his intention to die.

Absolutely Cynthia Marie
http://mypage.goplay.com/BobbyDylan

[Absolutely Cynthia Marie]

Another thing. . .James Dean, Marylin Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Elvis
Presley, Diana, Princess of Wales and others. . .When a famous person dies
in a violent and/or mysterious way at a relatively young age, tabloid
theories and speculations regarding said person's death are inevitable.

[Joe Keenan]

I wouldn't bother with TK, folks. This not a writer obsessing about depression
or suicide. This is someone yanking chains. Undoubtably, another AOL subscriber
will ride in on a white horse and rescue this ng from himself...er...I mean TK.

[Joe Keenan]

>Another thing. . .James Dean, Marylin Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Elvis
>Presley, Diana, Princess of Wales and others. . .When a famous person dies
>in a violent and/or mysterious way at a relatively young age, tabloid
>theories and speculations regarding said person's death are inevitable.

True, if they died "mysteriously".

James Dean--drove too damn fast.
Marilyn Monroe--sucked down pills like candy. Now, could she have been
silenced? Sure.
JFK--palace takeover by forces unknown.
Elvis-he lives! No conspiracy there!!
Diana--in car driven too damn fast by a drunk.

Don't forget JFK Jr. Everytime you pay for your groceries, one of those sleazy
tabloids has something "new". That, and that poor little girl in Colorado. And
OJ. Shoot, even Princess Grace isn't lying in peace. And these Martians
impregnating farm women. Wassup's with that??

[hiwa...@my-deja.com]

> Another thing. . .James Dean, Marylin Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Elvis
> Presley, Diana, Princess of Wales and others. . .When a famous person
dies
> in a violent and/or mysterious way at a relatively young age, tabloid
> theories and speculations regarding said person's death are
inevitable.

You are absolutely right.

[hiwa...@my-deja.com]

> I don't think John committed suicide, but I also think that he seemed
to
> have a devil may care attitude whether he was killed or not. Didn't
he say
> once when asked if he still wanted to be on the Challenger space
shuttle
> that it was "a risk to get up in the morning"? I thought that was a
strange
> thing to say. He did lots of weird, dangerous things. Invincibility
> complex? But no, I don't think it was his intention to die.

Well put!!!

[Penny G]

Joe Keenan wrote:

> >Another thing. . .James Dean, Marylin Monroe, John F. Kennedy, Elvis
> >Presley, Diana, Princess of Wales and others. . .When a famous person dies
> >in a violent and/or mysterious way at a relatively young age, tabloid
> >theories and speculations regarding said person's death are inevitable.
>
> True, if they died "mysteriously".
>
> James Dean--drove too damn fast.

A few years ago, I saw a documentary that had an accident reconstruction company
look at James Dean's fatal crash - they said he was *not* speeding; it was a true
accident.

But the legend lives on . . . .

[Joe Keenan]

>A few years ago, I saw a documentary that had an accident reconstruction
>company
>look at James Dean's fatal crash - they said he was *not* speeding; it was a
>true
>accident.
>
>But the legend lives on . . . .

I have heard that as well. Dean did drive too fast, but at the time of his
accident, I think it was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Has anyone ever been to the site where he died. They have a tree with a
wraparound bench with medallions imbedded in it. Even though they are covered
with plastic, they are always being dug out by souvenier hunters. We used to
drive by it on the way to the beach.

[Christine Moon]

Hiway,

He mentioned it at his concert at the Apollo, Victoria, London in 1982 and
whilst I don't recall actual laughter from the audience, they clearly did
not take him seriously. I felt so bad for him :-( He just said something
like "well, it's true" and carried on with whatever story he was telling.
I'm not sure if this is on the BBC tape from those concerts.

I think the problem was that he had that ridiculous sunshine, country boy
image - it was quite beyond the general public to conceive of him ever being
even mildly unhappy. To me, a lot was revealed in his songs - but clearly
not everyone understood. Maybe they didn't realise the songs were
autobiographical, for the most part. That was one of the main attractions
for me, the way he revealed so much of himself.

--
Peace, in John's memory,
Christine
*********************************
moon...@netcomuk.co.uk
"Friends of John Denver"
http://www.fojd.org.uk
*********************************

<hiwa...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:92401h$9f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

[Christine Moon]

You may be thinking of the following interview he did in the UK, or a
similar one. This is from 26 May 1986 - he did a similar one in (I think)
1990 but I haven't transcribed that.

Interview BBC Radio 2 on 26 May 1986.

Gloria Hunniford, interviewing John, had asked him how he felt when the
Challenger accident happened. He talked about having a range of emotions,
including thinking about the possibility that he could have been on board.
Here is the part of the interview where he talks about his belief that the
Challenger would not have blown up had he been on board:

Gloria Hunniford (GH): Do you think that fate determines sometimes where
you are, the direction that life takes you? You know, if your number's up,
in other words, your number's up?

JD: I think, you know it's like the whole thing with the Americans not
willing to come to Europe right now. When your time is at hand it can be.
it's..more people get killed weekly in automobile accidents in the United
States than have been killed by terrorist activity around the world. That's
a fact. So. when your number's up, your number's up, and it can happen if
you slip on a bar of soap in the bathtub, it can happen walking across the
street, it's a lot less likely to happen in an airplane, but it sometimes
does happen, and it's a lot less likely to happen through some guy trying to
make a point out of some political motive over here someplace. So you can't
let these things change your life, and.. er.you know, I. who knows what
would have happened if I'd been on board? I've thought about that. I don't
think it would've blown up, actually. It might have been the next one or
something else but I don't think it would have happened if I had been..

GH: Now that's quite a sweeping statement, why do you think that it
wouldn't have blown up?

JD: 'Cause I just think that there. you know. it's.. there. I don't know.
I mean there are a lot of things that I think and it'd take much too long to
discuss. I don't think it would've happened.

GH: that's amazing.

JD: But it's funny.

GH (interrupts): You don't mean from a technical point of view because
obviously all the expertise was on board, so what are you really saying?

JD: Well (pause) I feel like there's still some work for me to do in this
old world. I think that's one of the reasons I wasn't on board.

GH: So we're back to the fate thing again.

JD: Well not necessarily..

GH: The plan..

JD Let's not say fate, let's say purpose in life. You know, I think each
of us has a purpose, I think that there's purpose in life and in everything
that goes on in life and I think a part of what we're about as human beings
is finding out first of all what it is to be a human being and then to find
how that fits in to a much larger plan if you will. And so.. er. and what
that has to do with the evolution of consciousness on this planet. So I
feel, er. you know I feel a part of something much bigger than myself like
we were talking about earlier, and I really give myself to that, and if it
had been the case that I, you know, that I got the chance to be on there and
it had blown up I would go right back right now today, knowing what happened
on the Challenger, and I would be on that mission. If I had a chance I'd be
on it.

GH: do you still hope to go into space?

JD: I do. I would go tomorrow.

--
Peace, in John's memory,
Christine
*********************************
moon...@netcomuk.co.uk
"Friends of John Denver"
http://www.fojd.org.uk
*********************************

Absolutely Cynthia Marie <Bobby...@goplay.com> wrote in message
news:3A459DB6...@goplay.com...

[hiwa...@my-deja.com]

> He mentioned it at his concert at the Apollo, Victoria, London in 1982
and
> whilst I don't recall actual laughter from the audience, they clearly
did
> not take him seriously. I felt so bad for him :-( He just said
something
> like "well, it's true" and carried on with whatever story he was
telling.

So, all these years later I discover that not only was John being
factual... but when and where it happened.
I'm sure you're 100% right about his 'image' getting in the way of the
actual man; I seriously doubt that the audience meant to be insensitive
or unkind. Unless this happened on another occasion as well?

Best,

[Donna Hanley]

Christine:

Have you ever thought about your purpose in Johns life? You have so much to
share with us all because you felt such a strong pull to attend his concerts and
other events. I can't help but think that everything is done for a reason and
now your purpose is clear, to keep John alive in all our hearts. Thanks for
sharing his words with us here. Donna

[sparrow songbird]

In article <925lla$dsn$2...@lyonesse.netcom.net.uk>,
"Christine Moon" <moon...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:

> I think the problem was that he had that ridiculous sunshine, country
boy
> image - it was quite beyond the general public to conceive of him ever
being
> even mildly unhappy. To me, a lot was revealed in his songs - but
clearly
> not everyone understood. Maybe they didn't realise the songs were
> autobiographical, for the most part. That was one of the main
attractions
> for me, the way he revealed so much of himself.
>

How true Christine! One of the things I've found so interesting in the
last three years, has been discovering what an interesting, complex man
JD was. While not everything we know of him leaves him as the
endearing, smiling, carefree persona the public saw, I think he was a
much more interesting person in reality. Also seems like he had/was
coming to terms with the JD/HJD compare and contrast, and I wish I could
have seen a concert in person to enjoy that.

Colleen H-P

[Christine Moon]

Yes, I do feel that in some way I am working for John. It was always my
dream to work for him, to somehow help him with his work to make the world a
better place. This is not quite what I had in mind, but yes, I do feel I am
"trying to carry on" (as the song goes) for John, to keep his spirit in all
of our hearts.

--
Peace, in John's memory,
Christine
*********************************
moon...@netcomuk.co.uk
"Friends of John Denver"
http://www.fojd.org.uk
*********************************

Donna Hanley <don...@infomagic.com> wrote in message
news:3A480649...@infomagic.com...

[No 8 of 9]

>This is an unfortunate remark as it appears as though you think that
>suffering from depression is akin to a bad personality trait! John said
>that he once mentioned that he had a problem with depression at one of
>his concerts (have no idea where or when) and that most people laughed
>as they thought he was joking. *That* hurt his feelings, and I
>completley understand why.
>
>Hiway
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/

Again, Hiway, you hit the nail on the head. I think more people should become
educated about depression. It can happen to anyone at any point in their life.
And it can totally take you by surprise. I have anxiety disorder (as do
several of my family members). When the anxiety hits out of the blue,
depression soon follows. This happens about once a year, usually around the
fall, some years worse than others. A little therapy goes a long long way
though, and each time this little bugar decides to creep up, the therapy comes
in handy. Coping skills become more natural, and life goes on. To any of you
who may feel they have a problem and need help, but are too ashamed or scared
to get it, do it!!!! It can literally save your life.

As for John committing suicide, I think Ron put it best. So, as Ron would say,
all those who think this was no accident, get your heads outta your ass!

Cindy
Anchorage, Alaska

[crystal...@gmail.com]

[crystal...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 23, 2000 at 7:46:30 PM UTC-7, Tk843221 wrote:

[crystal...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 23, 2000 at 7:46:30 PM UTC-7, Tk843221 wrote:

[crystal...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 23, 2000 at 7:46:30 PM UTC-7, Tk843221 wrote:

[crystal...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 23, 2000 at 7:46:30 PM UTC-7, Tk843221 wrote:

[seth...@gmail.com]

I would bet that his public life doesn’t offer NEAR enough information about factors in his private life to say whether he commit suicide or not. But the distinction between him being the adulterer or his wife isn’t necessarily any less potentially devestating. And when it comes to flying a plane, if you didn’t check the fuel before yiu took off, it would sure seem like you weren’t caring a whole lot about whether yiou came back or not, anyways. I think it’s VERY much a possibility, and there is certainly nothing anyone could know of his public life to refute it, given there is probably a whole lot of stuff we just don’t know. That being said, his NOT having commit suicide is just as much of a possibility. Both sides are feasible, but all anyone can do is speculate. No one will ever know for sure whether it was suicide except John Denver himself.

[ernesthen...@gmail.com]

Psychiatrist;
He WAS depressed . Had all the symptoms. His decision to not gas up his plane points to impaired thinking . A cardinal symptom of depression . Then flying low in a new lane is another sign. Then his panicked attempt to switch tanks? AND his pushing his foot on the ailerons to reach back over his shoulder? An experienced pilot flying a new plane low over the beach with questionable gas in his tank ?? I'm a pilot, first rule in flying is this: altitude is your friend because if troubles develop if you are high you have time to figure out what is wrong and correct the problem. Denver violated several rules which combined to kill him. Why? Depression affects thinking in many ways. He needed antidepressants which had he gotten he'd likely be alive today . Truly tragic and preventable.

[4566s...@gmail.com]

John Denver killed himself.
1. Experienced pilot.
2. Mechanic suggested filling up with fuel
3. Difficult to reach fuel switch.
4. Of the two tanks aboard,one was half full the other a quarter full. John said he wouldn't be in the air for long.
5. Now I ask you? Why would an experienced pilot start with the quarter tank instead of the half tank? He already stated he wasn't going up for long and he new about the difficult fuel switch.
6. He didn't care about the fuel or the switch...he new he wasn't coming back.
7. Also..he never attempted to glide the plane down. He went head first.
8. End of story.

[evolution...@gmail.com]

Did you actually know him to say he was arrogant, lying & self-serving? A person committing adultery can mean a lot of things. The other person usually has faults as well. It is a 2 way street. One person may be alone feeling a loss of love- when what was once so beautiful is gone. He/ she may seek love elsewhere, but be also unwilling or not ready to give up completely on that old love. Another scenario is that he/she may have a profoundly loving spirit to love others easily. He/she may find it difficult to dim that spirit to love just one person. It is our rather warped world, after all, that forces people into a mould to love just one person. Historically through thousands of years many people have found that to be impossible. Alcoholism is a sickness. And all those other people out there committing adultery or drinking too much are often not creating beautiful & profound songs of Spirit and Love. Why should a singer be expected to be more perfect than anyone else? Judgment is a vicious emotion to begin with-it. It seems to me that a person who holds forth a profound & moving vision of the beauty & joy if life deserves more than that viciousness. Even if he- like any one of us- is not perfect. As Jesus said, look to the mote in your own eye. Do you have a perfect life in every way? How is the relationship that you have going? If you are faithful, are you also 100% happy? Do you bring that happiness to the one you are with? Or is it a misery you force yourself to endure so you can feel like
you are the righteous one? Until we each are perfect, and our lives the same, we have no leg to stand on to judge another person. Namaste.