Curious Facts About John Denver - From His Autobiography
Kennon Baird
p.19 - He referred to his White classmates in Alabama as "crackers".
p.43 - He dodged the draft in 1964 by getting a shady doctor in LA
to "...concoct a bit of medical history".
p.52 - He was a suspect in an Arizona bank robbery.
p.78 - After he saw the movie 'Doctor Zhivago', he spent hours walking
around Minneapolis "weeping inconsolably".
p.43 - He had eight toes.
p.80 - He proposed marriage to his first wife, Annie, over the phone.
p.161 - He thought of himself as a "very glamorous, popular figure".
pp.110, 124 & 207 - He described himself as "a superstar".
p.185 - After ex-wife Annie cut down some trees Denver liked, he
showed up at her place and terrorized her with a power saw. He
shredded her furniture, then proceeded to choke her.
p.216 - In an attempt to cure his sterility, he ate pills made of
"gential tissue".
p.130 - He thought he might have once been a mountain lion.
MNPearl
Most children like to sit in trees. My favorite was the neighbor's huge apple
tree. It must've been 100 years old.>
>p.19 - He referred to his White classmates in Alabama as "crackers".>
Yes, John was very uncomfortable with the discrimination he saw in Alabama and
the mean and hateful things the "crackers" could do.
>p.43 - He dodged the draft in 1964 by getting a shady doctor in LA
>to "...concoct a bit of medical history".>
The rest of the sentence says...."without having to fabricate much." The truth
is, if John's eyesight had been good, he probably would've been an AF pilot and
been called to Vietnam. Obviously, God had other plans for John. He was where
he was needed, fulfilling God's plan for him.
>p.52 - He was a suspect in an Arizona bank robbery.>
HAHAHAHAHA. Yes, and one of the cutest robbery suspects that there ever was
I'm sure!
>p.78 - After he saw the movie 'Doctor Zhivago', he spent hours walking
>around Minneapolis "weeping inconsolably".>>
It would be so nice if more men had such a sensitive nature.
>p.43 - He had eight toes.>>
This is disgusting, isn't it? I mean, really, and he expected to get anywhere
in life with only 8?
>p.80 - He proposed marriage to his first wife, Annie, over the phone.>
I guess she didn't mind so much....she eventually said yes. I know women who
would love to get a marriage proposal over the phone.
>p.161 - He thought of himself as a "very glamorous, popular figure".>
Actually, he said that they....him and his entourage.....were very glamorous,
popular figures.
>pp.110, 124 & 207 - He described himself as "a superstar".>
Yeah, he was.....even HE had to know that.
>p.185 - After ex-wife Annie cut down some trees Denver liked, he
>showed up at her place and terrorized her with a power saw. He
>shredded her furniture, then proceeded to choke her.>>
Yep, he was a naughty boy here.
>p.216 - In an attempt to cure his sterility, he ate pills made of
>"gential tissue".>
It's called glandular therapy.
>p.130 - He thought he might have once been a mountain lion.>
He just might have been.
Peace,
Jean
"The Ten Most Powerful Two-Letter Words: If It Is To Be, It Is Up To Me."
RFa7714804
>
>I guess she didn't mind so much....she eventually said yes. I know women who
>would love to get a marriage proposal over the phone.
I know people who would love to get a marriage proposal any way they can!! LOL
All of your responses were right on! Good for you!
Robin
Ejucaided Redneck
Even this one?
> >p.185 - After ex-wife Annie cut down some trees Denver liked, he
> >showed up at her place and terrorized her with a power saw. He
> >shredded her furniture, then proceeded to choke her.>>
> Yep, he was a naughty boy here.
If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
-----
I hate graveyards and old pawnshops
'Cause they always bring me tears.
Can't forget the way they robbed me
Of my childhood souvenirs.
--- John Prine ("Souvenirs")
MNPearl
> If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
>perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
The comment was not made for it to be taken lightly. John was wrong to do what
he did. I am sure he scared Annie right down to her very soul.
The comment was more in line with the ridiculous way "some" people come on here
"listing" John's problems, faults, etc. I would be very interested to see you
or KB list your own here or are you without sin?
Grmapj
Just4U2Kno
>> If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
>>perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
Well, in actuality, John did not "choke" Annie. He did not physically hurt
her. He stopped himself in the midst of his anger. In comparison, I have seen
women with black eyes, multiple bruises and broken bones. There is a big
difference here IMO.
Robert Reck
complaint, she attended his funeral and said nothing but good things about
him, she attended and helped plant trees at a Sanctuary in his honor in
Aspen, and she attended the recent events marking the one year anniversary
of his death, and wept openly with his fans. I've seen Annie on many
interviews over the years, and never once heard her bring up this incident.
Doesn't sound to me like it left a lasting impression on her.
Ejucaided Redneck wrote in message <3637A2...@yall.com>...
>
>> >p.185 - After ex-wife Annie cut down some trees Denver liked, he
>> >showed up at her place and terrorized her with a power saw. He
>> >shredded her furniture, then proceeded to choke her.>>
>
>> Yep, he was a naughty boy here.
>
> If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
>perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
>
Kennon Baird
> I would be very interested to see you
>or KB list your own here or are you without sin?
I don't know about ER, but I'm actually roiling with sin.
But you know what? If I'm ever vain enough to publish my life story,
everyone in this NG would be more than welcome - not to mention within
their rights - to comment on it.
KB
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> > If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
> >perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
>
> he did. I am sure he scared Annie right down to her very soul.
> The comment was more in line with the ridiculous way "some" people come on here
> or KB list your own here or are you without sin?
>
never threatened anyone with a "power saw," nor have I choked a woman
for cutting down a tree or two or three or ten.
Nor could I ever have the slightest iota of respect for a man who did.
------
How many times
Have you heard someone say
"Oh if I had his money
"I would do things my way"?
How little they know
It's so hard to find
One rich man in ten
With a satisfied mind.
-- R. Hayes & J. Rhodes ("Satisfied Mind")
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> >> If it happened to your daughter, your sister, or yourself, would the
> >>perpetrator be merely a "naughty boy?"
>
> her. He stopped himself in the midst of his anger. In comparison, I have seen
> women with black eyes, multiple bruises and broken bones. There is a big
> difference here IMO.
KB seemed to be quoting from the actual autobiography, and since
nobody's shown me where he's told an actual lie, I assume the book says
Denver choked the woman.
When did Denver "stopped himself?"
Ten seconds before bruises would have formed?
Twenty seconds?
Half a minute?
For how long may a man lay hands on a woman before you have a problem
with the assault?
Did he threaten her with a "power saw?"
And the absence of a black eye or two, bruises and broken bones means
nothing of import happened?
"Big difference" indeed.
-----
Alone -- in bad company
Love -- a temporary insanity, curable by marriage
Marriage -- a master, a mistress and two slaves, making in all,
two
Positive -- mistaken at the top of one's voice
Saint -- a dead sinner, revised and edited
-- Ambrose Bierce, THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> And the incident upset Annie Denver so much that she never filed a
> complaint, she attended his funeral and said nothing but good things about
> him, she attended and helped plant trees at a Sanctuary in his honor in
> Aspen, and she attended the recent events marking the one year anniversary
> of his death, and wept openly with his fans. I've seen Annie on many
> interviews over the years, and never once heard her bring up this incident.
> Doesn't sound to me like it left a lasting impression on her.
I don't know the terms of the divorce, though I do know some women are
far more forgiving of assaultive assholes than I'd ever be.
Or than I'd allow my sister to be.
If you can accept the notion that being choked and threatened with a
"power saw" (do you reckon it's safe to assume it had a chain on it?)
after seeing one's furniture cut to pieces didn't leave a "lasting
impression" (despite what might have been presented in interviews), you
are as perceptive as your basic rock.
Whether or not it lies on some Rocky Mountain High slope.
-----
"You're all right for a kid. But who the hell wants to drink
with a kid?" -- Ollie Keeton, to a college youngster with overly-
loud opinions expressed at the sadly defunct C&H Liquors
Raven
hurt
> > her. He stopped himself in the midst of his anger. In comparison, I
have seen
> > women with black eyes, multiple bruises and broken bones. There is a
big
> > difference here IMO.
There is no difference because it doesn't matter if he "actually choked"
her or not. Many men and women are convicted of domestic violence and
restraining orders expeditiously issued before any evidence is presented by
less than prudent judges by the mere "threat" of physical violence with no
more proof than the alleged victim's word. The ease with which many
overlook these actions as simply the acts of a "naughty boy" is not
surprising in light of the zeitgeist (sp) which permits an entire nation to
overlook the sex acts in the people's house of an "naughty boy" 51 year old
man and his 20 something toy. It's only cutting furniture in half with a
chain saw and not domestic violence like it's only sex and not perjury,
witness tampering or obstruction of justice.
MNPearl
> KB seemed to be quoting from the actual autobiography, and since
>nobody's shown me where he's told an actual lie, I assume the book says
>Denver choked the woman. >>
What KB posted about this incident was not a direct quote from the book. Maybe
you should go read the book before you start making comments about what was or
wasn't done or said.
MNPearl
>everyone in this NG would be more than welcome - not to mention within
>their rights - to comment on it.
Comments are fine. Distortions are another matter.
LARussl
of months. We've been over and over and over... IT
Robert Reck
Arthur Tobier). On page 185, he talks about feeling helpless inevitability
after his separation from Annie, and the resulting incident:
"The next morning, about eight a.m., on my way to the Aspen airport, I
showed up at the house. I didn't have the key anymore, so I rang the
doorbell. Annie came and opened the door and, to her surprise, I strode in
with my power saw. She thought -she told me later-I had come to kill her.
In the kitchen I laid the power saw down on the table, and in a voice you'd
use to order groceries, I asked Annie once again to explain why she had
committed this atrocity on the trees. Almost immediately she started turning
away, as if I was some fool, and I grabbed her. That part was
unpremeditated. Before I knew it, I had her up on the kitchen counter and
my hands were around her throat. And I stopped. I had *almost* lost
control, but I didn't."
He then goes on to describe how he sawed at the furniture (you can read the
rest if you follow Kennon and check the book out at the libraray every time
you want to start another smear campaign against JD). The last line in that
story: "With time,as I said, Annie and I even reestablished our friendship."
I saw JD on a local news show during his book tour here, and of course, the
reporter brought up that incident. John said, yes, it happened and it's not
a part of my life that I am proud of. He then went on to explain that he
and Annie made up and became very good friends because they had a history
and two children that bound them together.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> > KB seemed to be quoting from the actual autobiography, and since
> >nobody's shown me where he's told an actual lie, I assume the book says
> >Denver choked the woman. >>
>
> What KB posted about this incident was not a direct quote from the book. Maybe
> you should go read the book before you start making comments about what was or
> wasn't done or said.
>
with a saw, destroying her furniture and physically assaulting her is
presented in a fashion such that it's just a "naughty boy" sort of
prank. That'd be a good read...
Only I'm waiting for it to show up on the remaindered table at the
local bookstore.
-----
It was Christmas in prison
And the food was real good
We had turkey and pistols
Carved out of wood.
-- John Prine ("Christmas in Prison")
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >But you know what? If I'm ever vain enough to publish my life story,
> >everyone in this NG would be more than welcome - not to mention within
> >their rights - to comment on it.
>
> Comments are fine. Distortions are another matter.
>
Kennon Baird
>"The next morning, about eight a.m., on my way to the Aspen airport, I
>showed up at the house. I didn't have the key anymore, so I rang the
>doorbell. Annie came and opened the door and, to her surprise, I strode in
>with my power saw. She thought -she told me later-I had come to kill her.
Now, why would she think that?
>In the kitchen I laid the power saw down on the table, and in a voice you'd
>use to order groceries,
...Stone Cold John Denver...
>I asked Annie once again to explain why she had
>committed this atrocity on the trees.
(The Holocaust was an atrocity. I don't think one can commit an
"atrocity" on plants.)
>Almost immediately she started turning
>away, as if I was some fool, and I grabbed her.
"Don't be makin' Stone Cold look a fool, bitch!
I'll put the smack down on yo' ass!"
> Before I knew it, I had her up on the kitchen counter and
>my hands were around her throat. And I stopped. I had *almost* lost
>control, but I didn't."
"You lucky this time, bitch, but I still gonna trash yo' crib!
KB
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> Here are the exact words from the book, "Take Me Home" by John Denver (with
> Arthur Tobier). On page 185, he talks about feeling helpless inevitability
> after his separation from Annie, and the resulting incident:
<snip>
"Almost lost control?"
I get a distinct impression that if he'd cut the woman's head off at
least some of you all would say he "didn't mean to," that the saw
accidentally slipped.
-----
Time will wound all heels
And it ain't pretty.
--- Chris Smithers ("Your Winsome Smile")
MNPearl
> I intend to. Especially since you seem to think threatening someone
>with a saw, destroying her furniture and physically assaulting her is
>presented in a fashion such that it's just a "naughty boy" sort of
>prank. That'd be a good read...
naugh-ty, adj. meaning vicious, wicked.
Yes, he was being a vicious, wicked boy. I never said what he did was right.
You believe being "naughty" is not bad or what? You are the one who has
trivialized what I said. It was not my intention. I did not do it. You did.
Peace,
Jean
MNPearl
>
>(The Holocaust was an atrocity. I don't think one can commit an
>"atrocity" on plants.)>>
>"Don't be makin' Stone Cold look a fool, bitch!
>I'll put the smack down on yo' ass!">>
KB, sounds like you have some experience in this area. Now, how would you know
what John's intentions were or what he was thinking? Or are you claiming to be
an intuitive now?
>
>> Before I knew it, I had her up on the kitchen counter and
>>my hands were around her throat. And I stopped. I had *almost* lost
>>control, but I didn't."
>
>"You lucky this time, bitch, but I still gonna trash yo' crib!
>
>KB
>
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> > I intend to. Especially since you seem to think threatening someone
> >with a saw, destroying her furniture and physically assaulting her is
> >presented in a fashion such that it's just a "naughty boy" sort of
> >prank. That'd be a good read...
>
> naugh-ty, adj. meaning vicious, wicked.
>
> Yes, he was being a vicious, wicked boy. I never said what he did was right.
> You believe being "naughty" is not bad or what? You are the one who has
> trivialized what I said. It was not my intention. I did not do it. You did.
>
"Naughty" carries, in modern English, and in most minds a connotation
of harmlessly mischeivous. At least it does on the west side of the
pond. If you're a Brit I suppose it might be different.
Children are "naughty."
Grown men destroying furniture with a power saw and making women fear
for their lives are "vicious and wicked."
-----
"No Your Honor, but I could use a couple of witnesses if you
got 'em." - Slow spoken response by a local defendant, on being
asked by Judge Jimmy Clay if he needed the court to appoint an
attorney.
MNPearl
Everything in his list of facts...either by omission or direct distortion of
the facts.
You seem to be trying to make the point that what John did with the power saw
was bad. You've never had an argument with me on that point. I never said it
wasn't.
MNPearl
> Grown men destroying furniture with a power saw and making women fear
>for their lives are "vicious and wicked."
So are grown men who call women "bad" names and justify it by calling them
bigots.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> > I intend to. Especially since you seem to think threatening someone
> >with a saw, destroying her furniture and physically assaulting her is
> >presented in a fashion such that it's just a "naughty boy" sort of
> >prank. That'd be a good read...
>
> naugh-ty, adj. meaning vicious, wicked.
>
> Yes, he was being a vicious, wicked boy. I never said what he did was right.
> You believe being "naughty" is not bad or what? You are the one who has
> trivialized what I said. It was not my intention. I did not do it. You did.
>
naughty (adj) - 1. Disobedient; mischievous; perverse. Usually said
of a child or a child's misdeeds. 2. Indecent or suggestive of
indecency. Now used as a term of playful or mild censure. 3. Archaic:
wicked, evil
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >
> > Grown men destroying furniture with a power saw and making women fear
> >for their lives are "vicious and wicked."
>
> So are grown men who call women "bad" names and justify it by calling them
> bigots.
>
And I suppose if I'd been waving a saw in her direction at the time the
behavioral comparison would be rational.
MNPearl
>of a child or a child's misdeeds. 2. Indecent or suggestive of
>indecency. Now used as a term of playful or mild censure. 3. Archaic:
>wicked, evil
My dictionary shows the first meaning as wicked, vicious. It's Webster's New
Collegiate Dictionary - 150th Anniversary Edition. 1981
MNPearl
>
> And I suppose if I'd been waving a saw in her direction at the time the
>behavioral comparison would be rational.
Abuse is abuse whether it is verbal, emotional or physical. The term you used
would be considered verbal abuse and sexual harassment. Words can hurt and
destroy as much as physical violence. None of it is ever the right thing to
do. There is never a good excuse for "naughty" behavior.
LARussl
it on furniture.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> John didn't threaten anyone with the SAW..... and he made that clear. He used
> it on furniture.
In the quoted segment he acknowledged his exwife perceived herself to
be threatened, which makes sense, I guess, given his subsequent
behavior. Somebody came in *my* house and put a chainsaw to the
furniture, *I'd* feel sufficiently threatened to reach for a pistol.
-----
I was in the army but I never dug a trench.
Used to bust my knuckles on a monkey wrench
Then I'd go to town and give the girls a pinch
But I don't think they ever even noticed me.
-- John Prine ("Fish and Whistle")
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >In point of fact, she was bigoted.
> >
> > And I suppose if I'd been waving a saw in her direction at the time the
> >behavioral comparison would be rational.
>
> Abuse is abuse whether it is verbal, emotional or physical. The term you used
> would be considered verbal abuse and sexual harassment. Words can hurt and
> destroy as much as physical violence. None of it is ever the right thing to
> do. There is never a good excuse for "naughty" behavior.
>
(which was a quid pro quo sort of insertion anyway) with waving a saw at
a woman and destroying her furniture?
That's precisely the sort of weird attitude --toward anything John
Denver said or did that went way outside his alleged "peace and love"
belief system-- that baffles me.
-----
"My sister now, she's a real lady. Shoot, she don't even cuss
until she's sloppy drunk." -- Sammy Allred, one half of the
Geezinslaw Brothers
JKeenan688
>I'll put the smack down on yo' ass!"
>
>
>
>"You lucky this time, bitch, but I still gonna trash yo' crib!
>
>
Redneck is simply a misogynist and KB has to resort to racial stereotyping.
Great guys.
JKeenan688
quoting ER:<<Grown men destroying furniture with a power saw and making women
fear for their lives are "vicious and wicked.">> then replied by stating"<<So
are grown men who call women "bad" names and justify it by calling them
bigots.>>
single-minded droning replies from Redneck justifying an ungracious remark best
left to the gutter and bars he writes of, or better yet he will change the
slant of the conversation and avoid your point.. A writer of true and
remarkable talent would have responded to a depiction of himself sitting on a
porch with a chaw with a much wittier put-down than "twat". I had enjoyed
responding to ER's provocative posts, but now after being alerted to his
looking for death jokes about JD (you were just researching, right ER?) and his
misogynistic remark to a female poster, I am disappointed to see that he is no
better than the trolls that have come before, just longer winded. Besides, he
must be getting bored with us if he has to resort to such personal remarks. By
the way, ER, would you defend your remark again if the poster had been black
and you called them "nigger"? Just curious 'cause that "baffles me".
Ejucaided Redneck
Reacting to bigotry does not a mysogynist make.
Funny how such a reaction makes me a mysogynist, but attacking an
exwife's home with chainsaw doesn't make THAT GUY a lunatic.
-----
Everybody is wondering what and where they all come from.
Everybody is sure about where they'll go when the whole thing's done.
But no one knows for certain so it's all the same to me.
I think I'll let the mystery be.
-- Iris Dement ("Let the Mystery Be")
MNPearl
>(which was a quid pro quo sort of insertion anyway) with waving a saw at
>a woman and destroying her furniture?>
John NEVER waved a saw at her. That seems to be the point you are missing.
Abuse, n. 1. a corrupt practice or custom 2. improper use or treatment
3. abusive language 4. physical maltreatment.
Like I said, abuse is abuse, there's no excuse.
> That's precisely the sort of weird attitude --toward anything John
>Denver said or did that went way outside his alleged "peace and love"
>belief system-- that baffles me. >>
So, now it is weird to believe that what John did was abusive? Or is it that
what you said was abusive? So, one is not ok and the other is ok? You cannot
have it both ways. What's weird to me is that you feel you are justified in
calling someone a name because they are a bigot (another abusive word) or
because it " was a quid pro quo sort of insertion anyway" and can't even
imagine how that could hurt someone. Ask a Native American woman how it felt
to be called "squaw" for a hundred years.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> Good luck, Pearl. Be prepared to receive an endless string of
> single-minded droning replies from Redneck justifying an ungracious remark best
> left to the gutter and bars he writes of, or better yet he will change the
> slant of the conversation and avoid your point.. A writer of true and
> remarkable talent would have responded to a depiction of himself sitting on a
> porch with a chaw with a much wittier put-down than "twat".
In the interests of accuracy, that wasn't the depiction that sparked
the word.
> I had enjoyed responding to ER's provocative posts, but now after
> being alerted to his looking for death jokes about JD (you were just
> researching, right ER?)...
If asking a question in another newsgroup is "research," then I guess
that's what I was doing.
Incidentally, a person who says they've never laughed a "death joke"
will lie to you about other things too.
> ...and his misogynistic remark to a female poster, I am disappointed to
> see that he is no better than the trolls that have come before, just longer
> winded. Besides, he must be getting bored with us if he has to resort to
> such personal remarks. By the way, ER, would you defend your remark
> again if the poster had been black and you called them "nigger"? Just curious
> 'cause that "baffles me".
If a black guy called me a cracker, or otherwise insulted me, I might
use the word "nigger" in response. Something equally insulting in any
case. "Breast for tat," remember?
-----
Memories, they can't be boughten,
They can't be won at carnivals for free.
Well it took me years to get those souvenirs
And I don't know how they slipped away from me.
--- John Prine ("Souvenirs")
MNPearl
>single-minded droning replies from Redneck justifying an ungracious remark
>best
>left to the gutter and bars he writes of, or better yet he will change the
>slant of the conversation and avoid your point..>>
Thanks. I see what you mean already.
Peace,
Jean
Ejucaided Redneck
> John NEVER waved a saw at her. That seems to be the point you are missing.
Whatever the gesture, if the earlier quote was accurate, she initially
believed he intended to kill her with it.
> Abuse, n. 1. a corrupt practice or custom 2. improper use or treatment
> 3. abusive language 4. physical maltreatment.
>
> Like I said, abuse is abuse, there's no excuse.
I've never asked for excuse. I've found that a quid pro quo response
to ethnic or cultural slurs generally hushes the instigator.
As --so far anyway-- it seems to have done in this instance.
> Ask a Native American woman how it felt
> to be called "squaw" for a hundred years.
Don't actually know any at the moment, though almost anyone in
Appalachia has Cherokee ancestry. Cousins who pursue genealogy tell me
two of my great great grandfathers were full bloods. When I lived in
Minnesota, where the largest non-white ethnic groups were the Sioux and
Chippewa, I don't recall hearing anyone use that word either.
-----
Your daddy never
Meant to hurt you ever.
He just don't live here
But you got his eyes.
-- John Prine ("Unwed Fathers")
JKeenan688
makes me a mysogynist, but attacking an exwife's home with chainsaw doesn't
make THAT GUY a lunatic.>>
to compare your insult with a vulgar act by JD still doesn't make you valid.
Godspeed to you.
JKeenan688
> If a black guy called me a cracker, or otherwise insulted me, I might
>use the word "nigger" in response. Something equally insulting in any
>case. "Breast for tat," remember?
the word "cracker" with "nigger". Get a clue, ER.
Ejucaided Redneck
> Trying to compare your insult with a vulgar act by JD
> still doesn't make you valid.
I didn't make the comparison. I was questioning it.
-----
Gonna get me a shotgun
Just as long as I'm tall...
Gonna shoot poor Thelma
Just to watch her jump and fall.
--- Jimmy Rogers, "T For Texas"
Ejucaided Redneck
There's no difference.
Both are dehumanizing.
Both epithets separate their target into a convenient sector of
inferiority where the larger culture is excused from having to deal with
them as equals.
Both are despicable terms to those who have had to put up with them.
Both were (sometimes still are) used by bigots, or ignoramuses who have
no concept of their weight and significance.
Why don't *you* get a clue about cultural bigotry, oh Dull One? Try
reading, for starters, a clergyman named Will Campbell who has written
at length about the victimization of poor and working class white
southerners.
Denise Giardina (author of STORMING HEAVEN and THE UNQUIET EARTH) has
written a wonderful essay about Appalachian people and the
descriminatory misunderstanding of them that I'd be glad to email to you
if you're willing to even momentarily remove your blinders.
-----
They have one gift that modern speech has largely lost, the ability
to make phrases and even words fit the needs of the occasion; to
express the fresh thought or feeling while it is fluttering over
their minds. Their speech is still fluid. It is not yet congealed
and fossilized into grammar. --James Watt Raine, speaking of
Appalachia
MNPearl
>believed he intended to kill her with it. >
That quote said no such thing. You seem to "read" into things just what you
want to. No where does John say Annie thought he was going to kill her with
the saw.
> I've never asked for excuse. I've found that a quid pro quo response
>to ethnic or cultural slurs generally hushes the instigator.
>
> As --so far anyway-- it seems to have done in this instance.>
You used bigotry as an excuse/reason to call someone a nasty name.
>> Ask a Native American woman how it felt
>> to be called "squaw" for a hundred years.
>
When I lived in
Minnesota, where the largest non-white ethnic groups were the Sioux and
Chippewa, I don't recall hearing anyone use that word either.>>
That's right because the white man gave Native American women that name.
Native Americans would NEVER use it.
RFa7714804
>>single-minded droning replies from Redneck justifying an ungracious remark
>>best
>>left to the gutter and bars he writes of, or better yet he will change the
>>slant of the conversation and avoid your point..>>
>Thanks. I see what you mean already.
>Peace,
>Jean
Far be it for me to point out the obvious, and I'm totally on your side Joe and
Jean, however you are falling into his trap. I know cause I've done it myself.
Takes willpower not to try to reason with this jerk. He will post and post as
long as he has even 1 person to argue with. KB and ER should be IGNORED
totally.
Great form of pest control.
Robin
Jaks452
Kennon Baird
>>"Don't be makin' Stone Cold look a fool, bitch!
>>I'll put the smack down on yo' ass!">>
>
>KB, sounds like you have some experience in this area. Now, how would you know
>what John's intentions were or what he was thinking? Or are you claiming to be
>an intuitive now?
No, I merely translated JD's words and actions into the street
vernacular of today.
KB
JALMAND
a stand of trees that obviously meant a great deal to her former husband.
The furniture could be replaced - not the trees. I see no difference in
what they did.
I recently saw an interview John had with Ray Martin, where this was
brought up. He said it never occurred to him that Annie might think he
would hurt HER when he showed up at the door. He said "I would never hurt
anyone." He said he asked her why she cut the trees down (she didn't have
a good reason), but she started "wagging her finger at him" fussing at
him. He said that's when he grabbed her, but immediately let her go. Told
her he didn't want to hurt her. Then went about destroying the table and
the bed, just as she had destroyed his trees.
What John did was immature, just as what Annie did was immature. It's
similar to a child who breaks another's toy to get back at the one who
broke his.
Though the SInger is Silent,
There still is the truth of the song.
MNPearl <mnp...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981029101821...@ng143.aol.com>...
> >
> > Grown men destroying furniture with a power saw and making women fear
> >for their lives are "vicious and wicked."
>
>
> So are grown men who call women "bad" names and justify it by calling
them
> bigots.
>
Robert Reck
trying to retaliate against each other. The wonderful thing is that they
were able to make peace with each other and become life long friends. How
many divorced couples can say that?
Colleen
JALMAND wrote in message <01be03af$b010be40$0e1d9cd1@judyalmand>...
RFa7714804
>similar to a child who breaks another's toy to get back at the one who
>broke his.
>Judy
Sorry, but I have to disagree. John was wayyyy out of line. I loved the guy but
if he or anyone did something like that to our home or placed his hands around
my neck in anger, that would be the end for me. Just my own feelings.
Robin
CatTess
Pamela Beasley
>
> >...Stone Cold John Denver...>>
> >
> >(The Holocaust was an atrocity. I don't think one can commit an
> >"atrocity" on plants.)>>
>
> >"Don't be makin' Stone Cold look a fool, bitch!
> >I'll put the smack down on yo' ass!">>
>
> KB, sounds like you have some experience in this area. Now, how would you know
> what John's intentions were or what he was thinking? Or are you claiming to be
> an intuitive now?
>
> >
KB has been around here too long. He is now beginning to see throught
walls!!
MNPearl
> There's no difference.
>
> Both are dehumanizing.
>
> Both epithets separate their target into a convenient sector of
>inferiority where the larger culture is excused from having to deal with
>them as equals.
>
> Both are despicable terms to those who have had to put up with them.
>
> Both were (sometimes still are) used by bigots, or ignoramuses who have
>no concept of their weight and significance.
>
> Why don't *you* get a clue about cultural bigotry, oh Dull One? >>
Gee, ER....I could say the EXACT same thing to you about the words you use
against women. Why don't *you* get a clue about sexual harrassment and abuse?
Go down to your local women's shelter and see for yourself what this kind of
attitude has done to women. Verbal, emotional, and physical abuse are equally
damaging.
Jean
MNPearl
>walls!!
ROTFL! And he said it couldn't be done!
Kennon Baird
>What street do you live on?
Actually, anyone in the US can hear the same street lingo I used by
merely tuning in to MTV.
"JHD - Out On a Power-Saw Spree"
KB
Kennon Baird
>What do you call a grown woman who, out of spite, pays someone to cut down
>a stand of trees that obviously meant a great deal to her former husband.
How do you know what Annie was thinking?
>The furniture could be replaced - not the trees. I see no difference in
>what they did.
Weren't both the trees and the furniture Annie's property?
And, yes, trees can be replaced. You plant a seed and wait. You can
even transplant grown ones.
Trees are plants, not sacred beings.
>I recently saw an interview John had with Ray Martin, where this was
>brought up. He said it never occurred to him that Annie might think he
>would hurt HER when he showed up at the door.
But it immediately occured to her that he might actually kill her.
Why do you suppose that was? Had there been previous violence in
their relationship?
> He said "I would never hurt
>anyone." He said he asked her why she cut the trees down (she didn't have
>a good reason), but she started "wagging her finger at him" fussing at
>him. He said that's when he grabbed her, but immediately let her go.
Well, not quite "immediately". According to Denver, he wrestled her
down onto the kitchen counter first.
>What John did was immature, just as what Annie did was immature.
Again, if the trees were her property, she could do whatever she
wanted to with them.
> It's
>similar to a child who breaks another's toy to get back at the one who
>broke his.
You're assuming a lot. How do you know what Annie was thinking?
KB
MNPearl
>And, yes, trees can be replaced. You plant a seed and wait. You can
>even transplant grown ones.>
Nope. The property still belonged to both of them at the time. Fact is, John
eventually retained ownership of the property after the divorce.
>Trees are plants, not sacred beings.>
Pieces of furniture are not sacred beings either.
<<Again, if the trees were her property, she could do whatever she
wanted to with them.>>
But they weren't.
Jean
MNPearl
>merely tuning in to MTV.
KB, do yourself and the rest of us a favor and stop watching MTV. It's giving
you a distorted view of the world.
fgos...@infoave.net
Dot
In South Carolina
In article <3638A5...@yall.com>,
rls...@mis.net wrote:
> MNPearl wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > KB seemed to be quoting from the actual autobiography, and since
> > >nobody's shown me where he's told an actual lie, I assume the book says
> > >Denver choked the woman. >>
> >
> > What KB posted about this incident was not a direct quote from the book.
Maybe
> > you should go read the book before you start making comments about what was
or
> > wasn't done or said.
> >
> I intend to. Especially since you seem to think threatening someone
> with a saw, destroying her furniture and physically assaulting her is
> presented in a fashion such that it's just a "naughty boy" sort of
> prank. That'd be a good read...
>
> Only I'm waiting for it to show up on the remaindered table at the
> local bookstore.
>
> -----
>
> It was Christmas in prison
> And the food was real good
> We had turkey and pistols
> Carved out of wood.
>
> -- John Prine ("Christmas in Prison")
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Ejucaided Redneck
> Gee, ER....I could say the EXACT same thing to you about the words you use
> against women. Why don't *you* get a clue about sexual harrassment and abuse?
> Go down to your local women's shelter and see for yourself what this kind of
> attitude has done to women. Verbal, emotional, and physical abuse are equally
> damaging.
Jean, I don't "use words against women." The word which made all of
you so squirmy is not in my day-to-day vocabulary, nor is "nigger."
I only use them when someone makes a nasty crack against Appalachians
or southerners, which some of you perceive --as does a great chunk of
the larger society-- as the last "safe" ethnic group to insult and/or
discount and/or ignore.
Feel free to go to dejanews --the Dull One can show you how if you
haven't done this before-- to scan the hundreds of my posts archived
there; you won't find me insulting any ethnic group or culture. But you
won't find me letting slurs and slams and slaps against my own go by
unnoted either.
Ever.
-----
It's hard way to find out that trouble is real
In a far away city with a far away feel
But it makes me feel better each time it begins
Callin' me home hickory wind
-- Gram Parsons and Bob Buchanon ("Hickory Wind")
JKeenan688
Wrong.
>I only use them when someone makes a nasty crack against Appalachians
>or southerners, which some of you perceive --as does a great chunk of
>the larger society-- as the last "safe" ethnic group to insult and/or
>discount and/or ignore.
>Feel free to go to dejanews --the Dull One can show you how if you
>haven't done this before-- to scan the hundreds of my posts archived
>there; you won't find me insulting any ethnic group or culture.
Dull one here. I'll be happy to show anyone how to find a liar.
>But you won't find me letting slurs and
slams and slaps against my own go by
>unnoted either.
>
> Ever.
Oooooo. Tough guy, huh. Nyuck, nyuck
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >Feel free to go to dejanews --the Dull One can show you how if you
> >haven't done this before-- to scan the hundreds of my posts archived
> >there; you won't find me insulting any ethnic group or culture.
>
> Dull one here. I'll be happy to show anyone how to find a liar.
Want to tell me --or better yet show me-- how I'm a liar, Dullard?
You really need to scrape up that other five bucks.
>
> >But you won't find me letting slurs and slams and slaps against my own
> >go by unnoted either.
> >
> > Ever.
>
> Oooooo. Tough guy, huh. Nyuck, nyuck
>
If being tired of "cultural slams and slaps and slurs" and being
unwilling to let them pass unnoticed makes for a "tough guy," I guess
you can mark me down as one.
I've been wondering if you were going to defend the use of the word
"cracker" incidentally.
-----
Hey Queen Isabella
Stay away from that fella
He'll just get you into trouble I know.
-- John Prine ("Common Sense")
Kennon Baird
>Nope. The property still belonged to both of them at the time. Fact is, John
>eventually retained ownership of the property after the divorce.
Then, being a joint owner of the property, wasn't Annie entitled to do
with it as she pleased?
KB
MNPearl
>with it as she pleased?
>
Well, then KB, the tables and bed were also joint property, so wasn't John
entitled to do with them as he pleased?
MNPearl
>you so squirmy is not in my day-to-day vocabulary, nor is "nigger.">
ER, if you say these kinds of words - for whatever reason - you are using them
against women. Every single time words like this are used, it lessens the
value of women and perpetuates violence against them. I wish you could see
that.
> I only use them when someone makes a nasty crack against Appalachians
>or southerners, which some of you perceive --as does a great chunk of
>the larger society-- as the last "safe" ethnic group to insult and/or
>discount and/or ignore. >
Ok, that's your "excuse." In the same vein, (and this is my perception, no one
elses) John Denver was in great emotional pain, grieving over the loss of his
father in March and his wife asking for a divorce 3 months later. His home in
Starwood meant a lot - maybe too much - to him, as it was the first real
"permanent" home he ever had in his life. When Annie cut down the trees, which
were an integral part of the home, he had reached his pain threshold. In
anger, pain and frustration he went to the house, power saw in hand, with the
intention of destroying something he perceived was as important to Annie -
certain pieces of furniture. Her attitude when he asked her why she did it
fueled the flame and he almost totally lost it. Now, knowing all this, was it
OK for John to do what he did? Of course not. And it's not OK for you to use
those NASTY words under any circumstances either.
> Feel free to go to dejanews --the Dull One can show you how if you
>haven't done this before-- to scan the hundreds of my posts archived
>there; you won't find me insulting any ethnic group or culture. But you
>won't find me letting slurs and slams and slaps against my own go by
>unnoted either.
>
> Ever. >
By the same token, people here are not going to let slams and slurs go unnoted
against one of their own. Yes, many of us here feel that John is one of our
own....a friend, a brother. He wasn't perfect, but then who among us is?
Some will choose to define John Denver by all the mistakes he made.
I choose to define John Denver by all that he gave the world through his love
and his laughter, and most especially through his music. I'm certainly glad
he lived.
Peace,
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >Jean, I don't "use words against women." The word which made all of
> >you so squirmy is not in my day-to-day vocabulary, nor is "nigger.">
> Ok, that's your "excuse."
For the umpty umpth time, I'm not excusing anything.
And just out of idle curiosity, why is it you don't appear to have any
problem with anti-Appalachian slurs, or verbal slams against white
southerners?
I still believe that., whatever anyone thinks of my attitude towards
Denver, had I was logged in here as "Pancho," and had posted some
observations about my Hispanic culture, and even one of your most
beloved members made a "beaner" reference, and I retaliated, you'd have
far less a problem --if any-- that with this tempest in a teacup thing
about a single word in a single post.
When I've made a point or raised an issue, you all seem to ignore them
--someone named Linda being a rare exception-- to go back to this single
use of a single word, call my a misogynist, an abuser of women and
resort to the hyperbole, overstatement and exaggeration that so often
characterizes this newsgroup.
Yet when discussing a man who at a minimum frightened the hell out of a
woman with a "power saw," engaging in behavior that, had she shot him
down would probably have resulted in a valid "self defense" argument,
you all dismiss the behavior as a minor slip, understandable under the
circumstances and in some cases defend it.
Very odd, and very very inconsistent.
---------------------
Ratio of the number of "cigar" references in Kenneth Starr's
report to the number of "Whitewater" references: 9:1
Fine that the report's Internet posting might have brought if
1996's Communications Decency Act had become law: $250,000
Percentage of current members of Congress who voted for
both the Communications Decency Act and the report's release: 72
Number of pages of the Watergate special prosecutor's report
that have been released to the public: 0
source: Harper's Index
Kennon Baird
>Well, then KB, the tables and bed were also joint property, so wasn't John
>entitled to do with them as he pleased?
I suppose so.
One thing puzzles me: Denver said he didn't have a key to the place
anymore. Why not, if it was their joint property?
Did Annie change the locks? If so, why? And why did she think he had
come to kill her?
KB
MNPearl
>anymore. Why not, if it was their joint property?
>
> Did Annie change the locks? If so, why? And why did she think he had
>come to kill her?
>
>KB
The only person who can answer these questions is Annie. Maybe you will get
your answers when the movie comes out next year.
MNPearl
You said you use words like that ONLY when........that's an excuse if I ever
heard one.
> And just out of idle curiosity, why is it you don't appear to have any
>problem with anti-Appalachian slurs, or verbal slams against white
>southerners?>>
Actually, I meant to say something to you about that in the last post.....that
I understand your need to defend....just not the way you go about it. Calling
someone a name because they call you one certainly never solves anything.
Actually, I was raised in the North and grew up hearing constantly about
Southern hospitality. Then, when I lived in Atlanta for a while, all I heard
was "damn Yankees" and how the war ain't over yet. I was shocked to say the
least. But, I never called them names in return, and I also do not equate all
Southerners by those who chose to act this way.
As for the rest of your post, I can argue with you for a month of Sundays, but
I won't. I've never defended what John did, in fact, I've said several times
now that he was wrong, but somehow you can't get it out of your mind that I
did.
Just remember that there are many, many kinds of abuse that can have equally
damaging outcomes.
Peace,
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> >For the umpty umpth time, I'm not excusing anything. >
>
> You said you use words like that ONLY when........that's an excuse if I ever
> heard one.
That is an explanation, not an excuse. "Excuse" implies regret, or
some admission of wrong-doing.
> > And just out of idle curiosity, why is it you don't appear to have any
> >problem with anti-Appalachian slurs, or verbal slams against white
> >southerners?>>
>
> Actually, I meant to say something to you about that in the last post.....that
> I understand your need to defend....just not the way you go about it. Calling
> someone a name because they call you one certainly never solves anything.
It'd be an overly long story to post here, but I learned the impact and
force of the word "colored" as applied to black people when, as a very
ignorant seventeen year old boot sailor I used it in the presence of
--more specifically directed it toward-- a guy in the transient barracks
at the Philly Naval Yard. He shot back something along the lines of
"What'd you say, redneck?", I bristled, he bristled, we talked about it
and later he and a bunch of other black squids took me to the Apollo up
in Harlem. Was a real exotic experience for a hillbilly kid who'd never
lived anywhere near any people of color before Uncle Sugar's Canoe Club
required it of him.
I've never used the word "colored" as a racial epithet since.
That black sailor whose name I've forgotten got my attention...
> Actually, I was raised in the North and grew up hearing constantly about
> Southern hospitality. Then, when I lived in Atlanta for a while, all I heard
> was "damn Yankees" and how the war ain't over yet. I was shocked to say the
> least.
I've lived south of the Ohio River a good part of most of my life, and
have never seen hostility routinely directed toward outsiders unless
they invited it by their attitude and/or verbal sniping about the
culture. I'm not saying it didn't happen to you, but it's way outside
anything I've seen. As a rule, in my part of the country if someone
takes that sort of tack towards us we ignore them.
> As for the rest of your post, I can argue with you for a month of Sundays, but
> I won't. I've never defended what John did, in fact, I've said several times
> now that he was wrong, but somehow you can't get it out of your mind that I
> did.
What I noticed was the single use of a single word had you presuming
that I regularly, willfully and mindlessly abuse women, had you lumping
me in with those who bruise and beat and physically assault their mates
(or terrify them with chain saws).
I don't recall that you applied the word "abuse" to Denver's power saw
adventure.
Heroes always have feet of clay. Those unlucky enough to be elevated
to the "lay saint" level invariably suffer grievously, even when, for
personal reasons, they encourage this demi-canonization.
I'm still very curious about the evolution of this "John Denver World
Family," and cannot help wondering if somehow it was far more
destructive to the man than any alcohol problem he did or didn't have.
It would be very interesting if someone would address that one.
Did Denver encourage it? Discourage it? How?
Did the corporate structure which I assume surrounded him bankroll it
at all, at least initially?
When did it emerge in terms of his career? Was it tied to --if only
chronologically-- to the decline of his career, as measured by income?
What's the attitude and posture of whatever remains of "John Denver
Inc." toward such things now?
What sort of security did Denver maintain around himself after this
"Family" became an issue in his life?
How many people make a living from it?
What's its relationship to whatever exists in the way of a "John Denver
Fan Club?"
-----
"My opinion's about as important to that old girl as a
marriage license is to a tomcat." -- Ollie K., explaining why
his wife dropped him off at C&H Liquors to wait while she went to
Walmart to pick out paint for their living room.
Robert Reck
these questions more fully for you, but it was started by a fan, for fans on
the internet. It was started long after alt.fan.john-denver, which is what
I use to access this group, began. Somehow, Rory arranged things so that
people who wanted to post to alt.fan.john-denver could do so through his
"Family" pages. I think I see now where your confusion comes in. I don't
believe JD even knew about Rory's site, and I don't believe there is any
monetary concern there. Rory did do alot of volunteer work in planning the
events for the one year anniversary of JD's death. I may be wrong on some of
these things, but I hope Rory will step in and fill you all in.
In essence, the newsgroup and The World Family Pages are two separate
entities, as far as I can tell.
CR
Ejucaided Redneck wrote in message <363A43...@yall.com>...
LOU
belonged to both of them.....and as it turned out.....John kept the
house minus the trees he loved so much......and Annie built a new house
......
LuLu
I Love to Sing My Songs For You.......Yes I do...You know......I
Do......John Denver
LOU
those trees down,without talking to me first ??? those trees were as
much a part of this house as the walls and windows were !!!! John
planned the house around those trees and the mountain views.........
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> I'm sure Rory Young, who started the WFof JD on his website, can answer
> these questions more fully for you, but it was started by a fan, for fans on
> the internet. It was started long after alt.fan.john-denver, which is what
> I use to access this group, began. Somehow, Rory arranged things so that
> people who wanted to post to alt.fan.john-denver could do so through his
> "Family" pages. I think I see now where your confusion comes in. I don't
> believe JD even knew about Rory's site, and I don't believe there is any
> events for the one year anniversary of JD's death. I may be wrong on some of
> these things, but I hope Rory will step in and fill you all in.
>
> In essence, the newsgroup and The World Family Pages are two separate
> entities, as far as I can tell.
>
didn't mean the newsgroup.
"Fan clubs" generally are well-organized entities, and about as
spontaneous as an old time May Day Parade in Moscow, though the record
companies would just as soon you didn't know that. They exist to
promote the career of whatever artist they exist to serve, sometimes are
incorporated (though the record companies don't want you to know that
either) with paid staff and officers. They have a very active mailing
list, are a big part of the promotion of concerts and other appearances
by their subject, and sometimes operate off very impressive budgets.
I assume that in the days when he was making lots of money for the
record companies something like that existed for Denver. If it didn't
whomever he recorded for did him a disservice.
Got an email add for this Rory Young, btw?
-----
I hate graveyards and old pawnshops
Cause they always bring me tears.
Can't forget the way they robbed me
Of my childhood souvenirs.
--- John Prine ("Souvenirs")
Patty
I was a member of most of them over the years (20 yrs., for me). Mary
Ledford's club is Rhymes and Reasons. Hearts In Harmony is run by
Dottie Honer and Carol Blevins. Both are still very active clubs and
they often work together. To my knowledge, at no time were any of the
clubs funded by John, his record company, or his promoters. They have
always been run on a volunteer basis, and were paid no salary.
The World Family of John Denver was NOT started by Rory Young. When
there were a lot of JD fan clubs, John himself requested that they all
work together, including the clubs overseas...thus began The World
Family. I think Rory picked up on it to use as a part of the internet
group that he has...and rightly so..it's wonderful and definitely a part
of The World Family.
That's a real quick look at the clubs and how The World Family of JD
began. Mary?? Carol?? Dottie?? Have anything to add or clarify, please
do!!
Love,
Patty in MI
Ejucaided Redneck
Robert Reck
is the president, and I think it's Hearts in Harmony? There were also a few
online JD fanclubs (I know I used to check in his fan club on Prodigy when
we had that service). I believe there is a similar thing on AOL.
I don't have a URL for Rory's site, but you can use a search engine to find
it. Alt.fan.john-denver was started by Emily Parris, who runs the Rocky
Mountain High John Denver Online Newsletter. She has a history of the
establishment of the newsgroup on her website, as well as many pages
pertaining to JD. There is a discography and a FAQ and every thing you might
ever want to find about JD. I haven't been to her site in ages, but when I
last tried I couldn't get into it. I believe she has a list of ongoing fan
clubs.
CR
Ejucaided Redneck wrote in message <363A66...@yall.com>...
Just4U2Kno
>some admission of wrong-doing.<
Oh, that's right. You believe that it's ok to use those kind of words when
addressing women, so you would need no excuses. Got it.
>I've lived south of the Ohio River a good part of most of my life, and
have never seen hostility routinely directed toward outsiders unless
they invited it by their attitude and/or verbal sniping about the
culture. <
Driving through the South years ago, all you could hear on the CB is damn
Yankee this and damn Yankee that.
Yep, the only outsiders it was directed at was those damn Yankees who weren't
even talking on the CB. Go figure.
Just4U2Kno
>anymore. Why not, if it was their joint property? <
Because they had separated and he was no longer living in the house. Why would
he need to keep a key?
> Did Annie change the locks? If so, why? And why did she think he had
>come to kill her?<
Maybe because she knew he would be very angry about her cutting down those
trees. She had to know how he felt about the place.
"What one man can do is change the world....." John Denver 1943-1997
fiona in Oz
didn't know about John's feelings on his fan clubs. John actually
actively discouraged the formation of fan clubs as he felt that if they
existed only for the greater glory of an artist they were of no use at
all. When the inevitable happened he allowed only seven to be
"official".
They were the "world family of John Denver"
Fan clubs got no help with anything, including funding, special seats
for members(except for the wildlife concert, which is another story in
itself). They fund themselves and every one of them work to contribute
to either one of John's organisations or a children's one. eg. JDMAS in
Oz sponsors a child through Plan International. If we wanted front row
seats or back stage passes we had to deal with the promoter and although
John was quite happy to speak to you, you were no more important than
anyone else who got a back stage pass.
Anyone using their fan club for personal gain was, if found out by
John's ofice , likely to be warned that the fan club would no longer get
any special consideration from his organisation. This was usually only
advance warning of song releases, and of upcoming tour dates, no other
special treatment.
While Mark Stern (JD's PR guy, who died some months before John) was
alive he made a point of keeping in contact with the presidents of
John's clubs as he felt John didn't use them as effectively as he might.
It was his idea to get an audience made up of long time fans for the
"Wildlife Concert." He felt they would add to the atmosphere and allow
John to perform at his best. He and his boss actually fought about it
and Mark was fired. Then John changed his mind, or someone changed it
for him and Mark got his job back.
Anything else you'd like cleared up? John may have had his faults but
exploiting fans wasn't one of them.
love Fiona in Oz
Pamela Beasley
>
> MNPearl wrote:
>
> > Gee, ER....I could say the EXACT same thing to you about the words you use
> > against women. Why don't *you* get a clue about sexual harrassment and abuse?
> > Go down to your local women's shelter and see for yourself what this kind of
> > attitude has done to women. Verbal, emotional, and physical abuse are equally
> > damaging.
>
> you so squirmy is not in my day-to-day vocabulary, nor is "nigger."
>
> or southerners, which some of you perceive --as does a great chunk of
> the larger society-- as the last "safe" ethnic group to insult and/or
> discount and/or ignore.
>
> haven't done this before-- to scan the hundreds of my posts archived
> there; you won't find me insulting any ethnic group or culture. But you
> won't find me letting slurs and slams and slaps against my own go by
> unnoted either.
Frankly, the worst slur against the group of people that you say you are
a part of is the stereotyped portrayal exhibit, esp. with your
demeaning little name.
Pamela Beasley
>
> Do any of the referenced organizations have web sites?
No. There are email addresses for reaches these people, but as
previously said, they are strictly fan run on a voluntary basis. In
fact, John seldom made personal contact with these groups. He was well
aware of their existence and he appreciated their efforts on his behalf,
but neither he nor any one directly involved with John's career had any
hand in the activities of the fan clubs. In addition to the 2 active
one in the US, there are organizations in England, Germany,
Netherlands, and Australia.
Pamela Beasley
> And just out of idle curiosity, why is it you don't appear to have any
> problem with anti-Appalachian slurs, or verbal slams against white
> southerners?
Say, do you by chance use white sheets for anything other that for
sleeping?
Pamela Beasley
>
> cat...@aol.com (CatTess) wrote:
>
> >What street do you live on?
>
> Actually, anyone in the US can hear the same street lingo I used by
> merely tuning in to MTV.
>
> "JHD - Out On a Power-Saw Spree"
>
> KB
>
>
I doubt that many here bother to tune into EMP-TV
Pamela Beasley
Raven
> Ok, that's your "excuse." In the same vein, (and this is my perception,
no one
> elses) John Denver was in great emotional pain, grieving over the loss of
his
> father in March and his wife asking for a divorce 3 months later.
Now, knowing all this, was it
> OK for John to do what he did? Of course not. And it's not OK for you
to use
> those NASTY words under any circumstances either.
You admit then that you are ASSUMING what his motivation was for taking the
chain saw to the furniture. Would you agree then that his attitude was "if
I can't have it, then she can't have it?"
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> > That is an explanation, not an excuse. "Excuse" implies regret, or
> >some admission of wrong-doing.<
>
> Oh, that's right. You believe that it's ok to use those kind of words when
> addressing women, so you would need no excuses. Got it.
Follow the thread and see what I said.
> >I've lived south of the Ohio River a good part of most of my life, and
> have never seen hostility routinely directed toward outsiders unless
> they invited it by their attitude and/or verbal sniping about the
> culture. <
> Driving through the South years ago, all you could hear on the CB is damn
> Yankee this and damn Yankee that.
> Yep, the only outsiders it was directed at was those damn Yankees who weren't
> even talking on the CB. Go figure.
What CB were you listening to? I've had one of those in the truck for
years (real useful for late night driving when I'd get a little heavy
eyed) and have never --from Georgia to Arkansas, from Florida to
Virginia-- heard the phrase "damn Yankees" over the air.
I've heard rather colorful reactions to creative maneuvers on the part
of people whose driving indicated they ought to be restricted from
steering anything hotter than a detuned Crosley.
Heard lots of comments about all sorts of other stuff. But "all you
could hear... is damn
Yankee this and damn Yankee that"? Way outside my experience.
-----
Everybody is wondering what and where they all come from.
Everybody is worried about where they'll go when the whole thing's done.
But no one knows for certain so it's all the same to me.
I think I'll let the mystery be.
-- Iris Dement ("Let the Mystery Be")
Ejucaided Redneck
> Frankly, the worst slur against the group of people that you say you are
> a part of is the stereotyped portrayal exhibit, esp. with your
> demeaning little name.
I don't find "redneck" demeaning.
I presume you know the source of the word. Scratching something
significant out of a rocky cornfield or tobacco bed doesn't seem
demeaning to me.
-----
Oral! Oral!
You are the biggest blabbermouth that woman ever bore.
When your mother named you "Oral" she sure 'nuff knew the
score.
--Mark Graham's song about his favorite Tulsa-based
evangelist, as sung by Bryan Bowers
Ejucaided Redneck
And if anyone wonders why I used "that word" in connection with this
cretinous chunk of mobile foolishness, or wonders that I also called her
a bigot, read the above line.
Anybody care to defend her stupidity?
Or argue that *this* is anything but a troll?
You stupid, stupid clueless mindless unthinking ignorant shrew. Go
bury yourself in more "John Denver as avatar" nonsense which suits your
ill-informed mindset, stoke your ignorance with second rate trite whines
the public at large ignored after oh, 1980. Put your unimaginative self
to work devising new ways to defend the drunk who turned a chain saw
into an object of terror for the woman who "filled up his senses." Find
new ways to rationalize rich guy attitudes, life-styles and toys.
You don't deserve the squad of defenders who leaped out of the ether to
attack my having labeled you a bigot.
Or twat.
-----
"The number of fogs in you get in August tells you how many
snowy days you'll have the next winter." -- Some old timer at C&H
liquors, one day when everybody was tired of talking about women
and turned toward weather for conversational fodder.
Zamboni's Mom
> Time will wound all heels
> And it ain't pretty.
>
> --- Chris Smithers ("Your Winsome Smile")
It's Smither, not Smithers. But a good quote nonetheless. You have
good taste, ER.
And about the Saw, the Tree and Other Things (soon to be recorded by
the Cowsills):
John's irrational (to me) reaction to Annie's act of cutting down the
trees makes me wonder: what reparation did John pay to the tree he
slammed into with his car while under the influence?
Seems to me that someone who would resort to violence against a loved
one over some trees, should have made quite a public stand of apology
towards a tree he *himself* had sullied.
Do any of you know if he ever made a public statement about the tree
he hit with his Porsche?
Zamboni's Mom
Friend to Goats
All trees are equally important to Mother Earth
T CIUKAJ
>Put your unimaginative self
>to work devising new ways to defend the drunk who turned a chain saw
>into an object of terror for the woman who "filled up his senses."
and after all the help you`ve given us here at alt.FAN. john-denver......what
could she be thinking ??????
Robert Reck
Aspen Times to the entire town and his family.
Zamboni's Mom wrote in message <363b4a6c...@news.dnai.com>...
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> Ejucaided Redneck <briarh...@yall.com> wrote:
>
> > Time will wound all heels
> > And it ain't pretty.
> >
> > --- Chris Smithers ("Your Winsome Smile")
>
> It's Smither, not Smithers. But a good quote nonetheless. You have
> good taste, ER.
I stand corrected: thanks.
Heard that *one* song on the radio one night and spent weeks tracking
down who/what it was, btw.
Ejucaided Redneck
Personally, I'm not convinced she thinks at all.
jim Mcc
Oooooo. Tough guy, huh. Nyuck, nyuck
Well thank you Joe it's about darn time some brought in the Three
Stooges since Laurel and Hardy (KB & ER) have been here.
Ooooo a wise guy.nyuk nyuk nyuk
Peace and Grace
Jim
` `
geographic location is the reason you are 'slurred'? Nope. Stupid
redneck is only to do with a person's mindset and attitudes NOT
LOCATION. And yours aren't sufficiently expanded to fit in here ;
leave dickhead, since you're too stupid to pick up on the obvious.
Depart, take a hike, go back to your usual haunts. No one here wants
your input. No one here wants your carefully crafted i love the sound
of my own words bullshit. To everyone who reads or posts here you're
just a nasty little troll to be stepped over. No one buys the writer
label when all you have to offer in the way of credentials is porno and
hillbilly unavailable literary pamphlets. Your input is BORING, your
little snapshots of your life is boring and your ignorant attitude
towards women is boring. I guess that last is what comes when you write
porno stories for a living. In case I haven't made it clear; go date
your sister, go slurp some moonshine, go join a white supremist
terrorist group, anything you want. JUST GO.
Ejucaided Redneck
>
> you poor deluded ignorant cracker redneck. Do you really think your
> geographic location is the reason you are 'slurred'? Nope. Stupid
> redneck is only to do with a person's mindset and attitudes NOT
> LOCATION. And yours aren't sufficiently expanded to fit in here ;
> leave dickhead, since you're too stupid to pick up on the obvious.
> Depart, take a hike, go back to your usual haunts. No one here wants
> of my own words bullshit. To everyone who reads or posts here you're
> just a nasty little troll to be stepped over. No one buys the writer
> label when all you have to offer in the way of credentials is porno and
> hillbilly unavailable literary pamphlets. Your input is BORING, your
> little snapshots of your life is boring and your ignorant attitude
> towards women is boring. I guess that last is what comes when you write
> porno stories for a living. In case I haven't made it clear; go date
> your sister, go slurp some moonshine, go join a white supremist
> terrorist group, anything you want. JUST GO.
My.
How very articulate. Bet your brothers and sisters in the World Family
will be proud of *you*.
Usenet's free, pal (even for webtvers who can't be bothered learning to
operate an actual pee cee), at least until you and your ilk become a
factor in places other than caverns beneath whatever rocks you call
home.
Any Denverites wanna comment on the preachments of this "brother" in
the World Family?
Uh, if I might offer a suggestion, was he my brother I'd get his meds
checked.
Pamela Beasley
>
> Pamela Beasley wrote:
>
> > Frankly, the worst slur against the group of people that you say you are
> > a part of is the stereotyped portrayal exhibit, esp. with your
> > demeaning little name.
>
> I don't find "redneck" demeaning.
>
> I presume you know the source of the word. Scratching something
> significant out of a rocky cornfield or tobacco bed doesn't seem
> demeaning to me.
>
Like many terms and words, it may have begun innocencely but common
usage has turned it into a slur.
Pamela Beasley
>
> Pamela Beasley wrote:
> >
> >
> > > And just out of idle curiosity, why is it you don't appear to have any
> > > problem with anti-Appalachian slurs, or verbal slams against white
> > > southerners?
> >
> > Say, do you by chance use white sheets for anything other that for
> > sleeping?
>
> And if anyone wonders why I used "that word" in connection with this
> cretinous chunk of mobile foolishness, or wonders that I also called her
> a bigot, read the above line.
>
> Anybody care to defend her stupidity?
>
> Or argue that *this* is anything but a troll?
>
> You stupid, stupid clueless mindless unthinking ignorant shrew. Go
> bury yourself in more "John Denver as avatar" nonsense which suits your
> ill-informed mindset, stoke your ignorance with second rate trite whines
> to work devising new ways to defend the drunk who turned a chain saw
> new ways to rationalize rich guy attitudes, life-styles and toys.
>
> You don't deserve the squad of defenders who leaped out of the ether to
> attack my having labeled you a bigot.
>
> Or twat.
Gee, you are so sweet. Do you really have nothing to do but spew hate?
Won't you ever get enough? People came to this place to find possitives
and you bring out the worst in people. You need to get the chip off the
shoulder.