John Denver-believe in Christ?
ERukin2299
Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if John Denver
ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ? NOT, does
anyone know what John Denver's views were about churches or organized religion
or spirituality in general, but did John believe that Christ came into the
world to die for a world of sinners and physically rise from the dead so that
whoever believes in Christ could have salvation as a free gift, no strings
attached?
Any info on this is deeply appreciated.
sincerely Eric
LARussl
God does.
Janet Burns
Most of your questions can be answered many times over in the poetry and
songs that he wrote and in the messages of eternal love and peace that he
spread.
If you do not have access to these works - and apparently you don't, or you
wouldn't be asking these questions - you may find almost all of his works on
the Internet via use of the various search engines.
"Our" Lord Jesus Christ???
By the way, why does it matter?
I know you must think I sound offended.... well, actually, I am. John's soul
is a personification of Goodness, and "Christianity" has no bearing on this
fact.
ERukin2299 wrote in message
<199806251526...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
WhsprngSky
Eric..
I read your post with interest concerning the status of John Denver's
salvation..As a believer myself I have often wondered the same thing...but to
me..does it really matter that we know this? In the big picture..does it really
matter? And if we knew one way or another..what would we do with this
knowledge..and what does it mean to carry on his legacy?
It is a private thing between God and John Denver where his heart was or
wasn't. Many times as Christians..we tend to focus on who is..and who
isn't..judgments are cast into the wind..everyone thinks they are a better
Christian than others...
John's presence in front of others..his good will..his caring of others..his
vision for a better place to live..his spirituality in his songs..his
character..should lead you to the answer that you are searching for. It is
there is is music..his words..it is not a black and white answer..nor should it
be.
Regards..
Nancy
LiteofVega
>Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if John Denver
>ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
Does it matter? God knows and loves John and that is all that counts in my
book.
Peace~~~Mary in Oklahoma
"Joy when shared is doubled. Pain when shared is halved."
jae...@codenet.net
In article <199806251526...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
eruki...@aol.com (ERukin2299) wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if John Denver
> ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
Yes, indeed - John knows !!!
end of discussion
john - jae...@codenet.net
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Cheri22
><HTML><PRE>Subject: John Denver-believe in Christ?
>From: eruki...@aol.com (ERukin2299)
>Date: Thu, Jun 25, 1998 11:26 EDT
>Message-id: <199806251526...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
>Eric wrote:
>
> Does anyone KNOW (have
>personal or first-hand knowledge) if John Denver
>ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
Hoooo boy....you know what they say about Religion and Politics!
All I can say is that in the Bible it says "Seek and ye shall find"....and I
know that John , besides being a wonderful, giving human being, was certainly
just that. A Seeker.
I find it hard to beleive that "God" or John's "Higher Power" wouldn't take
that into consideration.
" A man is not judged, by how much he loves,
But by how much he is loved by others"
Enuff said!
Regards
Cheri22
Ravenschild
Janet,
Beautifully said!!!
Mary
Mary Ellen Heimbueger
Currently I am trying my best to represent people who claim to be
Christian, are active church goers etc. That has me embroiled in acts
of vicious lies, anonymous literature, obscene phone calls.
John Denver spoke clearly and signed his name. He stood up for what he
believed and his lyrics resound with a spirituality that was what it
should be for all of us...an integral part of the whole.
He's heads above the so called Christians that I'm dealing with right
now.
I'm planning on meeting him a great concert in heaven.
Mary Ellen
Siri Wheeler
Eric,
What I do have firsthand knowledge of is the great gift which John
Denver's music was and continues to be in my life. His relationship with
God is his own business. The gratitude which I feel for the
unselfconscious and beautiful way he expressed the belief that
"Life is a very special thing
Not just for a chosen few
But for every living breathing thing
Not just me and you"
is something that I am more than willing to share with anyone and
everyone who will listen. My own spirituality was greatly strengthened
by the beliefs which I came to have and the questions which I was able
to explore through his music. I certainly thank God for the gift he gave
to me and to many others through his music.
Peace and love to all,
Siri
John Harvey
I have often wondered the same thing. I agree with some of what has been
said here, but also share your concern for John. I also think he was a
Christian, just listening to the words of his music. Although some here
want to deify him, he had his faults as all do, but he projected a hope for
the future that we should all admire. If we had the opportunity to have
such an impact on so many people, how many would use that opportunity to try
and make things better. Most just go along and get along, trying to be
mainstream and not offend too many potential customers. John tried to be an
example for the most part and his music was mostly upbeat. His music can
lift my spirits like hiking/fishing/hunting in the Rockies.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
ERukin2299 wrote in message
<199806251526...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
> Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if John
Denver
Amazon
Religion and politics divide people. John Denver was about bringing people
together.
Lasthobo
To all:
IT does not matter to anyone but GOD ,if John
was a believer.
But his songs he spoke of god and heaven,angels,etc...
yes i do believe he was god-fearing man.
John Harvey
Division isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's no sense being "one" when
the group is doing something counter to your beliefs i.e. Hitler, KKK, etc.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
Amazon wrote in message <6mv4q4$p...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
jae...@codenet.net
In article <199806260259...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
last...@aol.com (Lasthobo) wrote:
> yes i do believe he was god-fearing man.
No, I believe he was a God-loving man.
ERukin2299
Amazon, John discussed religion and politics
in his book
Eric
ERukin2299
Janet, I know Johns music and have read his
autobiography and that is why I have asked
if he believed in Christ as the giver of God's free salvation? His references
to God
are obscure and I would like furhter info.
The good news that Christ died for sinners and rose from the dead, and
belief in Him has GREAT bearing on John's eternal destiny as well as all of
ours.
As far as the offence, read 1 Cor.ch.1 vss18-31. Eric
Miatabuf
I would also like to know his position on Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the
Easter Bunny.............does anyone know?
MNPearl
Believing in God and believing in Jesus Christ as Savior are two different
things. To my knowledge, John was a practicing Buddhist who did believe in a
God.....a higher Spirit. I have seen no evidence that he accepted Jesus as his
Savior, however, we do not know what was in John's heart about this. If you
are truly concerned for his soul, I would urge you to pray for him. I was
raised a Christian but have had the same problems with Christianity that John
had. Sometimes it just doesn't make any sense. Just my opinion....
Peace,
Jean
Jim Smith
Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if ERIC
ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ?
NOT, does
or spirituality in general, but did ERIC believe that Christ came into
the
world to die for a world of sinners and physically rise from the dead so
that
whoever believes in Christ could have salvation as a free gift, no
strings
attached?
Any info on this is deeply appreciated.
PS: It's none of our business ERIC!!
Robert Sassade
Miatabuf wrote:
>
> I would also like to know his position on Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, the
> Easter Bunny.............does anyone know?
Robb wrote:
>
> He'd trade 'em all...for Grandma's Feather Bed!
Patty
Well said Siri!! Me too! Amen.
Patty
Connie L. Miller
Nancy: As a fellow I have wondered the same thing. In fact at the end of the
concert, where I last saw him, I had an overwhelming urge to pray for him, so I did
right there. And I did so later, in the last two weeks of his life. I know that
God loved him, and I believe was preparing him for his departure into Eternal
Life. We need to all be praying for his dear family now.
Regards.........Connie
LiteofVega
>views were about churches or organized religion
>or spirituality in general,
Does it really matter what John thought about organized religion and
churches?????
He lived a far more spiritual and beautiful way of life than most of us do.
You are known by your actions. How many of us talk the talk and do NOT walk
the walk? John walked that walk.
We have a wonderful JD family here who while sharing a common love of John have
a multitude of religious/spiritual beliefs. Nobody's religion is any
better/more legitimate/superior than anyone elses.
PEACE (It's not just a word, it's a way of life)~~~ Mary in Oklahoma
CatTess
>From: eruki...@aol.com (ERukin2299)
>I know Johns music and have read his
>autobiography and that is why I have asked
>if he believed in Christ as the giver of God's free salvation? His references
>to God
>are obscure and I would like furhter info.>>
If you read John's autobiography and need more information than he was willing
for you to have, then you're asking stuff that's none of your business.
Bill Planer
Uh, how does this relate to JD or this new group? I'm lost.
Peace,
Bill
John Harvey <john....@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6n04dj$q...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
John Harvey
> I was raised a Christian but have had the same problems with Christianity
that John
>had. Sometimes it just doesn't make any sense. Just my opinion....
>Peace,
>Jean
And what religion, or anything else does (always?) I wouldn't have much
faith in a God I could understand.
John Harvey
Thank you Jim Smith,
I've finally found the arbiter of what is one's business and what isn't.
I'll be sure to keep your email address so I can ask questions from time to
time as to what is permissible. What business is it of yours about what
questions anyone else asks here from the sublime to the mundane. Excuse me,
but you "ain't" the thought police!
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
Jim Smith wrote in message <3593BD34...@primary.net>...
Cheri22
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: John Denver-believe in Christ?
>From: Mary Ellen Heimbueger <meh...@prodigy.net>
>Date: Thu, Jun 25, 1998 16:36 EDT
>Message-id: <3592B4...@prodigy.net>
></PRE></HTML>
AMEN, MaryEllen!
Cheri :)
BHoehn123
I used to love John saying at a end of a concert....God Bless You All...be
patience with one another...or back in the 70's when he used to end the
concerts with "Peace My Friends"
It doesn't matter really what religion he was.....he was just passing through
his his life leaving his mark in life....just like most of us do.
I guess most of us can say....that we knew he was here....just wished he could
of stayed a little longer.
Barbara
patti-v
On 26 Jun 1998 22:58:11 GMT, liteo...@aol.com (LiteofVega) wrote:
>>views were about churches or organized religion
>>or spirituality in general,
>
>Does it really matter what John thought about organized religion and
>churches?????
>
>He lived a far more spiritual and beautiful way of life than most of us do.
>You are known by your actions. How many of us talk the talk and do NOT walk
>the walk? John walked that walk.
>
I could not have said it better. Thanks so much
Stewa1
My problem with most Christian groups is that they tend to be pretty right
wing, as well as self-righteous!! Look at the Souther Baptists and their
imposing attitude in Salt Lake City recently. These people truely believe that
everyone is going to hell who doesn't go to their church and give money to
them. I would hope John Denver had the same problem with these groups.
WhsprngSky
>Excuse me,<BR>
>but you "ain't" the thought police!<B
Perhaps this statement should be addressed to Eric who took it upon himself to
"speculate" John Denver's salvation. I feel that Jim Smith made a very good
point addressing Eric on those issues as he did on John Denver. I did not see
this as Jim implying that he was the thought police in any manner.
It is interesting how comments are sorted out to fit the needs of one's own
agenda..purpose..but when those comments are directed back to the
originator..it is amazing how they don't apply...mmmm..
Let us remember.."as different as were are we are still the same.." and in
God's image and graciousness..need I say more??
Regards..
Nancy
George Schumer
one of the themes of "Oh,God" was the bankruptcy of fundamentalist
Christian thought, of course. still, john carries much of his Sunday
School teaching with him, as seen in "Take Me Home".
I have a degree in theology, and have spent much of my life trying to
sort out theologies, whether christian, jewish, mormon, buddhist, and
here's what i feel:
People like John connect us with the good, the divine. John is a modern-
day prophet in this sense, with that magical touch he has, beautifully
weaving music and words into themes we can all relate to, that stress the
ultimate good of our lives, and that we all go through these challenges.
If Jesus had been examined by the modern media, they would have
decimated his reputation, just like they do to John. John was an
imperfect human being, and Jesus was, too. Yet they both had these
magical abilities; they connected us to God. they knew God and strived
their utmost to be close. They also knew that God was unknowable, but
available. They connect us to God, and for this we are grateful and
praise them in our thoughts. Yes, Jesus was a beautiful gift from God,
and so is John. Believe me, someone could write a book 50 years after
John's death, and make it sound like he was a savior of the world -- and
you'd have the music to prove it!
It is easy to say "I believe in Christ, I am going to heaven," but just
about any pastor will say it's what takes place outside the church doors
that counts.
the parable of the good samaritan shows it's not your theology that
counts, but your actions -- which demonstrate that you truly have faith
in God...
later...
George Schumer
Richmond, CA
ASLTsmile
I'm not sure if I should reply to this thread or not, but I'm quoting (sort of)
from John himself on how he felt about religion and spirituality. He said when
assked by someone if he was a Christian, or a buddah, or whatever.... he would
reply "Yes." He, I believe, felt he was a part of all these religions and none
of them as well. He really didn't like organized religion, because ,as he said
so many times, he was about bringing people closer together. When you start
saying "I'm a Christian," or "I'm an American," or "I'm white," or "I'm a man
or woman" or whatever the case may be in all the ways we try to separate
ourselves one from the other, it does just that; separate us. I also firmly
believe John believed in a higher power. He was a VERT spiritual man. This is
very obvious in his lyrics and music. He just didn't believe that religion was
the path to spirituality.
I, for one, couldn't agree with him more. I don't believe you have to go to
one certain church or any other building with any other name to worship God.
God is everywhere, "Love is Everywhere" (There's another favorite quote...soory
different thread.) If God is as great as we all seem to think he is, he can
hear you no matter where you are. And, I believe he'll listen no matter what
your personal religious beliefs are.
Just my humble opinion.
Sorry this is so long.
Peace!!
Tricia
ERukin2299
George Shumer,
How do you KNOW Jesus was imperfect? Is it possible you are
not correct?
Eric
John Harvey
Actually you make my point. When those comments are directed back .... If
someone wants to ask a question, that's their right. If a person is a
Christian, they are "SUPPOSED" to care about whether someone is a Christian
or not. How about showing a little more understanding.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
WhsprngSky wrote in message
<199806271711...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
John Harvey
Well, it's all our "humble" opinions, so don't apoligize. I don't disagree
that labelling can be a bad thing, but it can also give us a reference
point. Nothing is everything all the time. However, if you look at what
Christ taught and are a Christian, you have to be concerned about whether or
not others are Christian. Of course if you aren't Christian, then it's easy
to understand why such a question makes you uncomfortable. I don't think
the original question was what church or denomination did John attend, it
was is he a Christian. The implied meaning is that it didn't matter what
sect of Christianity he belonged to, but was he? As I've stated elsewhere,
to a Christian, it matters whether or not others are Christian, because
Christ said there is one way - Jesus Christ.
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
ASLTsmile wrote in message
<199806271832...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
John Harvey
Excuse me, I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hold that. Our belief is
that Christ said paraphrased " no man comes to the father, except through
me." The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
that's heresy.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
Stewa1 wrote in message <199806271341...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
John Harvey
<John was an imperfect human being, and Jesus was, too. >
George, I don't know what kind of theology you studied, but my understanding
of the Bible says the Christ was God and man, not an imperfect being. He
took on mans form, but he was still God. John was a great singer/songwriter
but he wasn't and isn't God. I think you might want to re-read Bible with a
little more concentration on the deity of Jesus.
Also, Jesus was examined by the historical government and subsesquently
executed. However, those events were foretold hundreds of years in
advance - which is one of the historical proofs of the accuracy of the
Bible - as I'm sure you are aware.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
George Schumer wrote in message
<6n3as6$andi$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
MBlimes
> The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
>that's heresy.
On what do you base your assumption?? I am a Christian and a Mormon, and that
is all I am going to say on this subject. It has nothing to do with John Denver
and should be taken elsewhere!! Know your facts before you air them as gospel!!
Marilyn
Siri Wheeler
My dear Eric,
You ask what we KNOW of John Denver's salvation and you ask how George
Shumer can KNOW whether Jesus was imperfect and whether he could be
wrong.
Of course he could be wrong. Of course no one KNOWS these things. Some
things you have to BELIEVE. We call it FAITH and it is a magical thing
that does not come from knowing or from being sure. It's about trust and
it's about things you cannot prove or disprove. That's the beautiful
mystery of it and that's the value of faith to those who have it. You,
yourself, have no more firsthand knowledge of these things than I do or
George does or John Denver did.
You know what you believe. You have been good enough to share your
beliefs with us as you feel that God asks you to do. In return, many of
us have shared our beliefs with you. A healthy dialogue about issues
which are difficult to resolve among people.
If you're looking for that, you cannot be disappointed. If you're
looking for concrete answers, my guess is that you aren't likely to find
them in this lifetime. If you do, you have my congratulations. If you
don't, have faith!
Peace and best wishes,
Siri
Janet Burns
THIS IS ENOUGH! STOP THIS RELIGION CRAP!! We are here to talk about John
Denver, a man whom we love - a man who was not perfect! I am sure there is a
newsgroup out there where people like ERIC and John Harvey can babble to
their hearts' content!
John Harvey wrote in message <6n3iqi$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>Excuse me, I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hold that. Our belief is
>that Christ said paraphrased " no man comes to the father, except through
>me." The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
>that's heresy.
>
>--
>John Harvey
>http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
>
Christine Moon
> I also firmly
> believe John believed in a higher power. He was a VERT spiritual man.
This is
> very obvious in his lyrics and music. He just didn't believe that
religion was
> the path to spirituality.
On a Dutch talk show (that I have on video) John was being asked about his
aspirations to go into space. The host asked if he thought he would feel
closer to God in space. John replied without a moment's thought "I
couldn't be closer to God than I am sitting right here".
--
Peace,
Christine Moon
(Leicester, England)
moon...@netcomuk.co.uk
*********************************************
"Friends of John Denver"
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~moonstar/index.html
ERukin2299
Siri,
Do you believe that the Bible is the reliable book God wrote to explain
His Son to us or do you believe God wrote the Bible
for us not to understand.
I believe the former. This is not my opinion. I can believe the Earth is
flat all I want but all my "faith" won't MAKE it true. God's definition of
faith in the Bible is believing what HE has said is true.
Can God lie?
Read 2 Cor. ch. 5 vs 8. and see what God
says about believers in Christ.
Eric
WhsprngSky
>hat's their right. If a person is a<BR>
>Christian, they are "SUPPOSED" to care about whether someone is a
>or not. How about showing a little more understanding.<BR>
Well John..I wonder how it would be if you and I were in the same church on the
same Sunday morning..worshiping the same God..and if I had your approval that I
was being the proper Christian in your eyes or God's??
Yes..how about showing alot more understanding..
Regards..as always..
Nancy
John Harvey
I suggest you read the Bible and what is said about who Jesus Christ is as
compared to what the book of mormon says. Without trying to engage you in
an acrimonious debate, I suggest you take an objective look at both books
and then see if they don't offer different perspectives.
MBlimes wrote in message
<199806272044...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>> The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
>>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
>>that's heresy.
>
John Harvey
Once again, you are not the thought police, and we'll discuss whatever we
want. I'm sorry you are so intolerant.
--
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
Janet Burns wrote in message <6n3nii$od0$1...@supernews.com>...
>THIS IS ENOUGH! STOP THIS RELIGION CRAP!! We are here to talk about John
>Denver, a man whom we love - a man who was not perfect! I am sure there is
a
>newsgroup out there where people like ERIC and John Harvey can babble to
>their hearts' content!
>
>John Harvey wrote in message <6n3iqi$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>>Excuse me, I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hold that. Our belief is
>>that Christ said paraphrased " no man comes to the father, except through
>>me." The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
>>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
>>that's heresy.
>>
>>--
>>John Harvey
>>http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
>>
chamokar
ASLTsmile wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if I should reply to this thread or not, but I'm quoting (sort of)
> from John himself on how he felt about religion and spirituality. He said when
> assked by someone if he was a Christian, or a buddah, or whatever.... he would
> reply "Yes." He, I believe, felt he was a part of all these religions and none
> of them as well. He really didn't like organized religion, because ,as he said
> so many times, he was about bringing people closer together. When you start
> saying "I'm a Christian," or "I'm an American," or "I'm white," or "I'm a man
> or woman" or whatever the case may be in all the ways we try to separate
> believe John believed in a higher power. He was a VERT spiritual man. This is
> very obvious in his lyrics and music. He just didn't believe that religion was
> the path to spirituality.
>
> one certain church or any other building with any other name to worship God.
> God is everywhere, "Love is Everywhere" (There's another favorite quote...soory
> different thread.) If God is as great as we all seem to think he is, he can
> hear you no matter where you are. And, I believe he'll listen no matter what
> your personal religious beliefs are.
>
> Just my humble opinion.
>
> Sorry this is so long.
>
> Peace!!
> Tricia
Tricia,
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I usually avoid discussing religion
at all costs since it is so personal. Everytime I've discussed it I end
up in arguements, which is exactly opposite of what any religion is
based on. My only thoughts on the subject are that I have felt closest
to God while in nature. I think that is why I relate to JD's music so
much. For me they are my anthems. I think John must have felt the same
way, or he could not have written the songs that he did. The spirit of
nature moved him to a level in which he was able to write such beautiful
lyrics.
Karen
Robert Sassade
John Harvey wrote:
>
> I suggest you read the Bible and what is said about who Jesus Christ is as
> compared to what the book of mormon says. Without trying to engage you in
> an acrimonious debate, I suggest you take an objective look at both books
> and then see if they don't offer different perspectives.
> >>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
> >>that's heresy.
> >
> that
> >is all I am going to say on this subject. It has nothing to do with John
> Denver
> >and should be taken elsewhere!! Know your facts before you air them as
> gospel!!
> >Marilyn
>
>
> The Bible is a good book...so is Cat In The Hat!
Janet Burns
Eric, don't you have anything better to do with your time? Go out and play
with your friends. Do your homework. Run errands for your mommy. Take a
nap - maybe you'll feel better when you wake up.
ERukin2299 wrote in message
<199806272346...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Janet Burns
Ironically, you are one of the most UNchristian people I have ever met.
John Harvey wrote in message <6n438a$5...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
Janet Burns
I am intolerant only of IGNORANCE. Go find a new coloring book and sharpen
your crayons....
John Harvey wrote in message <6n439s$5...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>Once again, you are not the thought police, and we'll discuss whatever we
>want. I'm sorry you are so intolerant.
>
>--
>John Harvey
>http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
>
>Janet Burns wrote in message <6n3nii$od0$1...@supernews.com>...
>>THIS IS ENOUGH! STOP THIS RELIGION CRAP!! We are here to talk about John
>>Denver, a man whom we love - a man who was not perfect! I am sure there is
>a
>>newsgroup out there where people like ERIC and John Harvey can babble to
>>their hearts' content!
>>
>>John Harvey wrote in message <6n3iqi$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>>>Excuse me, I'm a Southern Baptist, and we don't hold that. Our belief is
>>>that Christ said paraphrased " no man comes to the father, except through
>>>me." The Mormons present a religion that has twisted Christianity and
>>>attempted to reduce Christ to a "good person." If you are a Christian,
>>>that's heresy.
>>>
>>>--
>>>John Harvey
>>>http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
>>>
Janet Burns
This fool accused ME of being intolerant? He must not have a mirror in his
nursery.
MOOPSIE64 wrote in message
<199806280132...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Thank you Janet. These posts irritate me too because it really doesn't
matter
>if John believed in Christ the same way many others do. What matters is
the
>personal choices one makes in his or her own life--not trying to change
others
>beliefs or pass judgments on others. It's my personal thought that when he
>made mention of the Lord and Christ, etc. in his music, these were symbols
of
>goodness and representations of his spiritual inclinations. We know that
he
>was connected to Buddhism, and this is much different from Christianity. I
>believe that John had a spirituality that transcended religion. Listen to
the
>words of songs like, On The Wings of a Dream, and Wandering Soul, he
believed
>in LOVE.......
>I hope not to offend anyone, these are only my thoughts.
>Peace to all,
>Melinda
Teri & George
Dear Freinds
As far as whether or not John believed in Christ ,I'm quite sure that he did.
Just not the same way as some people do. These people who seem to think that
they have found the perfect interpretation of what the truth is really bug me.
The following is from an earlier post of mine.
> In my opinion, John's talents, voice, musical abilities etc were a gift
> from God.
> I also believe that John was a Gift from God to the human race, and to
> the earth.
> Whatever any human can achieve spiritually on this earth in terms of
> relation to
> or with God, the Almighty, The Creator of the Universe, or whatever you
> want to call
> him , I strongly believe that John achieved it. Nothing will change my
> mind on this.
> I have never heard or read about John specifically stating his religious
> beliefs, but so many of his songs
> speak for him. Some people out there have obviously
> never read the last
> verse of "Ravens Child". In General, I would have to say that Johns
> songs are full of prayer
> and aknowledgement to God.
> Peace my frends
MOOPSIE64
Qphoton
>Once again, you are not the thought police, and we'll discuss whatever we
>want. I'm sorry you are so intolerant.
>Janet Burns wrote in message
>>THIS IS ENOUGH! STOP THIS RELIGION CRAP!! We are here to talk about John
Denver, a man whom we love - a man who was not perfect! I am sure there is
a newsgroup out there where people like ERIC and John Harvey can babble to
their hearts' content!
I don't think Janet was acting as the so called thought police. She has a
right to voice her disapproval of your using this forum for a discussion of
religion that is not truly relevant for this news group. I, for one, am
growing weary of the ongoing dissinformation which abounds in this discussion.
I am a former student of religious theories and I can assure you that most of
the major world religions share some of the same core beliefs and similar
traditional stories. IMHO, John Denver believed in our "sameness" that no
matter what form of belief we held deep down we are truly the same. That is
true understanding and not simply "tolerance."
I urge you, John, and Eric to continue this debate privately via email. I
support your right to express your views to believe whatever you choose to
believe however, one must be discrete where one chooses to discuss such
delicate issues.
My parents taught me that in a casual social setting there are three things
that should never be discussed - religion, politics and sex. To discuss these
things in a public setting means committing a grave faux paus amongst civilized
persons. I encourage you to continue to question and debate and discuss but
not in this forum.
Thank you for your consideration to all the readers of this news group.
I am asking politely
EdOlczyk
Well, my take on this is that the essence of religion is a one on one
relationship with our Creator, be it God, Allah, or the names given by other
religions. When you have other people with a like belief gathered together,
it’s called a congregation. There are so many aspects concerning religion that
there’s not enough space to state them, nor am I qualified in the least to
express them. I’m not a theologian and don’t have nearly enough knowledge to go
in depth on it. It’s really no one’s business how I pray or structure my belief
system unless I’m willing to share. With all the judgment going on out there by
those "in the know", I have a tendency towards keeping my personal matters
under my hat. Certainly I’ve come to realize that how someone else conducts
their life and the God they believe in is their own business, and I respect
them as hopefully they would respect me.
John Denver not being a Christian singer/songwriter, I believe, didn’t want to
use any specific reference to a particular religion in his songs. Christian
songwriters/performers such as John Michael Talbot and Bob Hurd write
specifically towards Christians, and are not commercial artists and thus make
direct references towards praising God and base their songs on Bible Scripture.
John was raised Presbyterian, and I’m not sure what religion he ultimately
embraced (I haven’t read or heard his autobiography). He knew that Jews,
Christians, and others religions may fall in love with his music, and therefore
wanted to remain somewhat neutral.
I don’t think it’s bad to wonder if John was Saved, but to bring that on
publicly is not a good thing to do. Politics and religion do bring on divided
opinions, which I don’t particularly care to delve into. This newsgroup is
about John and his music, and although he was most definitely into politics in
many of his activities, that subject is far too strong NOT to get very strong
opinions that ultimately lead to arguments. That was the essence of C.J.’s
"Another Box" where there have been strong things said towards one another. I
think "Another Box" illustrated perfectly what can happen when these or other
subjects come up, and I do know this, I’ve been dragged into discussions at
work, and tempers flare up even among friends and what would the point be?
There are people with very strong religious convictions who find it
irresistible to proclaim that you must give your life to Christ to be Saved.
That is true, but the essence of Christ was to "walk the walk, and talk the
talk". George said it perfectly when he said it’s too easy to say "I believe in
God, I’m Saved". I’ve seen non-religious people do the work of Christ more than
some people who claim to be Christian. To me, it is those who help total
strangers with a flat tire (yeah, it can be dangerous unfortunately), a
person(s) who help a stalled motorist push their car to the side of the road,
someone who comes to the aid of an accident victim, someone who jump starts
someone else’s battery and so on, who truly have the Word of Christ in their
hearts (whether or not they are Believers), not those who merely say "I
believe, now I’m going to heaven". There are people who claim to be Christian
who have an intolerance towards those of another ethnicity. There are also
people in some religious groups who say that if you don’t believe as they do,
you will go to hell. That will be decided for me when my Time is at hand.
Which brings me to John Denver. It was said at the Aurora memorial that John
was a practicing Buddhist. I don’t know for sure. What I do know is that he was
a kind and giving person WITH faults. However, we find that he was a charitable
person as well, unbeknownst to many or all of us. He gave of himself way back
in his Far Out, granny glasses days as was illustrated in the Aspen Times
shortly after his death. He just didn’t want anyone to know, it was a very
personal thing to him and he didn’t consider himself one to toot his own horn.
We as humans are hopelessly addicted to that mindset of a well-known tabloid
"enquiring minds want to know!" and thusly there are those like Eric who do
like to find out things about John, such as "was he Saved???" As I said
before, I don’t precisely or exactly know what his convictions were…again he
was a VERY private man, but I do know this, there is a scripture in the Bible
(stated below) which at the very least illustrates that his charitable work and
Foundations, his songwriting, singing, showing his glowing happy face to all of
us his Friends at his concerts, striving to make us laugh, cry, and walk out of
the arena with smiles on our faces and a glow in our hearts means to me that he
truly did the work of God.
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good
works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
MNPearl
Here's what John says about faith in his autobiography:
"Faith is a kind of knowing. It is different from hope. My faith is that life
is purposeful; of that I'm sure. There is a god, there is intelligence, there
is consciousness. And behind all of this, there is incredible compassion.
Life didn't just happen. Relationships don't just happen. We're not an
accident in the midst of a lifeless universe. I've not yet found a way to
express my faith within the form of religious observance, but I know that my
faith is what I stand on, what I'm going for."
John Harvey
You know sometimes this medium doesn't lend itself to discussion as well as
spoken words. There is no voice inflection and you can't see the eyes. My
words are not meant to harm, but merely to shed light. I have simply been
attempting to ask why it is so wrong for someone who is a Christian to ask
if John was?
ASLTsmile
Thank you George for this wonderful post.
Peace!!!
Tricia
Cheri22
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: John Denver-believe in Christ?
>From: siri...@webtv.net (Siri Wheeler)
>Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 15:57 EDT
>Message-id: <10754-35...@newsd-104.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
VERY well said, Siri. I guess my answer to Eric would be, in regarding his
original post...
I DON"T KNOW
Thanx
Cheri22
LOU
Terri and George.........Amem
LuLu
Dr Pepper
John....You always say and feel all the right things in my book....Thank
you just for being......Lorraine
Cheri22
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: John Denver-believe in Christ?
>Date: Sat, Jun 27, 1998 23:24 EDT
>Message-id: <199806280324...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>
>
>Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your
>good
>works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
John....
THANK you for a wondrerful post....I'm speechless.
Love
Cheri22
Stewa1
Who cares? John Denver was a singer and humanitarian and
environmentalist....if you want Christian religion stuff, see if Jerry Foulwell
or Tammy Faye Baker, or Jim Baker or Jimmy Swaggert have web pages....hmmm,
wonder what kind of quality of life these good 'Christians' have brought to
people (other than themselves??).
Pamela Beasley
John,
I agree with Janet. Noone wants kep you from discussing whatever you
want, BUT DO IT ON THE PROPER NEWSGROUP!!!
John Harvey wrote:
>
> Once again, you are not the thought police, and we'll discuss whatever we
> want. I'm sorry you are so intolerant.
>
> --
> John Harvey
> http://home.att.net/~john.harvey/vfpstuff.htm
>
> Janet Burns wrote in message <6n3nii$od0$1...@supernews.com>...
Ward Horde
This has been an interesting, if somewhat heated thread. Just let me add my
thoughts.
I believe John was confirmed in a Christian church as a youth, Presbyterian I
believe. So he certainly at one time received the salvation Eric is so
concerned with.
However, let me add that while I do not know if John "knew" Christ in the
manner that Eric wonders about at the time of his death, he certainly knows him
now. And is probably playing golf with him on one of heavens endlessly perfect
days, but losing badly.
Marty
ASLTsmile
Marty,
LOL!!
Peace,
Tricia
LOU
Does any one know if John Denver believed in christ???????
all you have to do is "listen" to the words of the song he wrote after
his dad died....
ON THE WINGS OF A DREAM
I will quote only the 5th verse ( it has 9 verses) but this one says it
all.............
Though the body in passing must leave us there is one who remains to
receive us
there are those in this life
who are friends from our heavenly home
so I listen to the voices inside me
for I know they are there just to guide me
and my faith will proclaim it is so
we are never alone
this like many of Johns songs speaks loud and clear how he felt about
God........it is in many of his songs....if you really
listen........listen with your heart..............
Lou
JFREEWOMAN
>Who cares?
I can understand those who love John and have fundamentalist beliefs that cause
them fear and distress for John's well-being.
The bottom line is "Judge not that ye be not judged."
Or as I was told in my fundamentalsit church, won't no one be in hell that
doesn't deserve to be there.
Or as I read someone where else, there are many religions that believe they are
the only ones going to heaven. since few people simultaneously belong to all
of these groups, strict logic leaves the conclusion we are all going to hell.
I don't think the latter is true, but it is the logic of some.
jodi
Pegasys9
I don't mean to throw fuel on the fire, but as a practicing Mormon, I just feel
the need to say to Mr. Harvey, that he is tottally incorrect as to our
religion. We have always known that Christ is the Savior (not just a good
person).
That is why the technical name of our church is "The Church Of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints". You'll notice it's not called the "Church of some really
good people". lol. Just had to say that as I felt our religious view were
misrepresented.
As for John, I don't know if he believed in Jesus as strongly as I think he
should have (IMHO) . But I do think that his life of service and kindness and
love for his fellow man will stand him in good stead with our Heavenly Father.
Enough said
Peg.
MOOPSIE64
Janet---You go girl!!!!!!
SewPatti
responses you got....I too believe everyone has a right to their own
opinion......and their own religion......It's the WAY you said it that ruffled
peoples feathers....I was even a little ruffled and I'm not real sure anything
about this thread should be on the newsgroup at all. Religion , like politics
and sex are private things and should be kept private. Mr. Denver lived a very
public life, constantly judged by others who did not know him....... we are
all here because of our love of the man and his music and his vision.....let us
not be his judge too. Leave his private life........well...private. He was a
very spiritual man....lets leave it at that. Does his religion make him any
more or any less of a man or a musician??? I think not. Just my
thoughts....not meant to flame anyone.
And John......once again you are so insightful as you right...I love to hear
your words.
Peace
patti (sewp...@aol.com)
PLEEEEEZE...respond privately... If you need to respond. Thanks
John Harvey
feathers than anything else. However, once again you choose to send a
missive to me in the ng but dictate that my response be via email. I don't
follow orders too well. Sorry. As for religion being a private matter,
yeah Hitler would have loved that.<G>
You liberal types are so predictable, you're only tolerant of those who
agree with you. If someone has a conservative perspective, you have very
little tolerance.
John Harvey
http://home.att.net/
SewPatti wrote in message
<199807101446...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
tripl...@gmail.com
One day in a frequent flyer room, I looked over and saw John Denver. It was pretty obvious with his distinct features and signature guitar that it was him.
I went over and said, "John!"
He jumped up, stuck out his hand and said, "I haven't seen you in a while."
I said, "No sir, we've never met. But I am a man who's prayed for you for over five years, and I have a message for you from your dead father, Dutch."
You see, years earlier, in the height of my pagan lifestyle, John Denver's father was the co-pilot on the Learjet that used to fly me around the country to do my illegal mob business.
His father -- whose hand I held when he surrendered his life to Jesus Christ -- made me promise that one day I would share with his son. I said, "Dutch, if God provides the moment, the privilege is mine."
Now it looked like the moment was going to come.
I met with John in a private room in the Denver airport for the better part of two hours. I took him line by line through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
There wasn't a single verse of Scripture he did not understand -- nor was there a single verse of Scripture that he would accept.
Finally, I said, "John, when did you make up your mind Jesus Christ would never become your Lord and your Savior?"
He could remember the date, the time and the place. A godly Sunday School teacher, like some of you, said to him Jesus Christ was The Way, The Truth and The Life.
I left with a saddened heart, tears in my eyes.
I asked God, "Why did You go to all this trouble if John Denver was not going to accept You?" And a verse of Scripture came into my heart that took evangelism to another level for me. I hope it will for you. It comes out of 2 Corinthians 2:16, and it says, "To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life."
The word "death" in Scripture means eternal separation from God.
Wherever you go, to whomever you speak, wherever you stand, you represent life and you represent death -- for you and them it will be either an opportunity, or an opportunity lost.
Bill Fay is an evangelist and author of Share Jesus without Fear
balgaa...@gmail.com
ajabb...@gmail.com
> Does anyone KNOW (have personal or first-hand knowledge) if John Denver
> ever recieved God's offer of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ? NOT, does
> anyone know what John Denver's views were about churches or organized religion
> or spirituality in general, but did John believe that Christ came into the
> world to die for a world of sinners and physically rise from the dead so that
> whoever believes in Christ could have salvation as a free gift, no strings
> attached?
> Any info on this is deeply appreciated.
> sincerely Eric
ajabb...@gmail.com
ajabb...@gmail.com
ajabb...@gmail.com
ajabb...@gmail.com
ajabb...@gmail.com
bags...@gmail.com
gol...@student.cewa.edu.au
it1gl...@yahoo.com
Occ Inc
If you can't see or hear that in his songs, then you are not one with an ear to hear.
And if you are referring to the BS that the churches preach, that someone is saved JUST because they believe that Jesus lived and died for our sins, then you are as lost and brainwashed as most of humanity. And there is no hope for you.
There is a connection with you and God. Jesus taught it, but the churches altered it (to bring in parishioners to make money), and John Denver sang of that connection pretty much in fullness.
Sad that most people don't get it. Your Soul, or Spirit, is all you truly are. Your physical existence is just a test. Connect with that, and you will see. But most can't, because they are totally unaware, consumed, and blind, due to their desires in the physical realm. All I can say, is, good luck to you.