Sorry up front about this...
Jeremy Reimer
news:joe.ragosta-26...@0.0.0.0...
> > > > You might want to download a copy of Star Office 5.0
> > > Except that the Mac version doesn't appear to be ready yet.
> >
> > Undoubtedly because the Mac is a PAIN to program for.
>
> Undoubtedly you don't know what you're talking about.
Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
No memory protection means that one misreferenced pointer, one missing
bracket, hell, sometimes it seems that one missing semicolon could and does
mean total system lockup, requiring a hard reset.
I know; I've programmed on the Mac. You'd have to put a gun to my head if
you wanted me to do it again. I should point out that Win 3.x was equally
painful to program for, as was DOS (shudder.. reinventing the wheel six
times before breakfast was not fun) and when OSX is released it will
eliminate this pain once and for all from the Mac world.
Memory protection is really, really necessary for programmers. It's not
just a buzzword, and it's not just an excuse for sloppy code (if anything,
it helps you get rid of your bugs faster as you're not constantly rebooting)
--
----
Jeremy Reimer
jrei...@home.com
http://members.home.net/jreimeris
Earl Malmrose
>I know; I've programmed on the Mac. You'd have to put a gun to my head if
>you wanted me to do it again. I should point out that Win 3.x was equally
>painful to program for, as was DOS
I somewhat disagree. There was a feature of Win 3.x that I really miss. With
Win 3.x, you were able to overload new/delete so that every allocated block
of memory was given a separate segment. No block could overwrite another
block. As long as you only allocated a couple thousand blocks, you could get
some very strong memory protection.
steve
Reimer" <jrei...@home.com> wrote:
> Joe Ragosta <joe.r...@dol.net> wrote in message
> news:joe.ragosta-26...@0.0.0.0...
> > > > > You might want to download a copy of Star Office 5.0
> > > > Except that the Mac version doesn't appear to be ready yet.
> > >
> > > Undoubtedly because the Mac is a PAIN to program for.
> >
> > Undoubtedly you don't know what you're talking about.
>
> Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
Man, you shouldnt argue with Joe Ragosta about programming on the mac, he
is a EXPERT mac programmer!
Jeremy Reimer
news:macghod-2603...@1cust194.tnt1.santa-barbara.ca.da.uu.net...
> > > Undoubtedly you don't know what you're talking about.
> >
> > Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
>
> Man, you shouldnt argue with Joe Ragosta about programming on the mac, he
> is a EXPERT mac programmer!
Were you being sarcastic? I have programmed in C, Pascal and C++ on *both*
the Mac and the PC, so I figured that qualified me to make an informed
decision.
Peter Bjørn Perlsø
> Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
>
> No memory protection means that one misreferenced pointer, one missing
> bracket, hell, sometimes it seems that one missing semicolon could and does
> mean total system lockup, requiring a hard reset.
A missing semicolon? A missing bracket?
Eh.. Jeremy... sorry to say this, but that is 100% bull shit. The typos
you mention would get caught as syntax errors in the compile phase.
--
Best Regards, Peter Bjørn Perlsø
http://w1.1491.telia.com/~u149100079/
Are you making a difference?
Jeremy Reimer
news:1dpcbbs.1klpbr710kvkgfN@[192.168.1.2]...
> Jeremy Reimer <jrei...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
> >
> > No memory protection means that one misreferenced pointer, one missing
> > bracket, hell, sometimes it seems that one missing semicolon could and
does
> > mean total system lockup, requiring a hard reset.
>
> A missing semicolon? A missing bracket?
>
> Eh.. Jeremy... sorry to say this, but that is 100% bull shit. The typos
> you mention would get caught as syntax errors in the compile phase.
OK, so I was exaggerating. Semicolons, yeah, the compiler would catch
those. But occasionally you would have a bracket error that the compiler
wouldn't catch, because syntatically it made sense. To MacOS, however, it
was garbage. This did happen, but not very often.
Really, it happened, I was sitting at the Mac at the time (and the time
after that, and the time after that, and the time...) and gosh, that machine
sure had a lot of different ways of crashing. The class I was in had a bit
of a contest to see who could identify the most number of different ways
their Mac had crashed since starting the course. I think the record was
twelve.
steve
Reimer" <jrei...@home.com> wrote:
> OK, so I was exaggerating. Semicolons, yeah, the compiler would catch
> those. But occasionally you would have a bracket error that the compiler
> wouldn't catch, because syntatically it made sense. To MacOS, however, it
> was garbage. This did happen, but not very often.
>
> Really, it happened, I was sitting at the Mac at the time (and the time
> after that, and the time after that, and the time...) and gosh, that machine
> sure had a lot of different ways of crashing. The class I was in had a bit
> of a contest to see who could identify the most number of different ways
> their Mac had crashed since starting the course. I think the record was
> twelve.
I think its very unfair to bitch about this from a developer standpoint.
Basically what you are talking about are very serious errors. ON ANY
PLATFORM. True, it wont crash some computers like unix, but they will
still crash the program
Alan Baker
Reimer" <jrei...@home.com> wrote:
>steve <mac...@concentric.net> wrote in message
>news:macghod-2603...@1cust194.tnt1.santa-barbara.ca.da.uu.net...
>> > > Undoubtedly you don't know what you're talking about.
>> >
>> > Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
>>
>> Man, you shouldnt argue with Joe Ragosta about programming on the mac, he
>> is a EXPERT mac programmer!
>
>Were you being sarcastic?
You mean you couldn't tell just by reading the one post. (Sorry, Jeremy,
after our G. Graves discussion I couldn't resist <G>)
>I have programmed in C, Pascal and C++ on *both*
>the Mac and the PC, so I figured that qualified me to make an informed
>decision.
--
Alan Baker (Alan_...@bc.sympatico.ca)
Vancouver British Columbia
"There is hardly anything in the world that some men cannot
make a little worse and sell a little cheaper,
and the people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey."
-John Ruskin
steve
Reimer" <jrei...@home.com> wrote:
> > > Um, Joe, the Mac *is* a pain to program for. It really is.
> >
> > Man, you shouldnt argue with Joe Ragosta about programming on the mac, he
> > is a EXPERT mac programmer!
>
> Were you being sarcastic? I have programmed in C, Pascal and C++ on *both*
> the Mac and the PC, so I figured that qualified me to make an informed
> decision.
>
Ummm, your still NOTHING compared to the programming wizard
Joe Ragosta
Jeremy Reimer
> I think its very unfair to bitch about this from a developer standpoint.
> Basically what you are talking about are very serious errors. ON ANY
> PLATFORM. True, it wont crash some computers like unix, but they will
> still crash the program
I think it is very fair for me to bitch about it. On *any* platform except
the Mac, such errors are trapped by the OS. This is called "debugging your
code". On the Mac such errors cause your machine to crash in colorful ways.
This is called "tearing your hear out and swearing at the machine".
Jeremy Reimer
news:alan_baker-27...@a3a31538.sympatico.bconnected.net...
> >Were you being sarcastic?
>
> You mean you couldn't tell just by reading the one post. (Sorry, Jeremy,
> after our G. Graves discussion I couldn't resist <G>)
Ooooh, touche! :)
Joe Ragosta
mac...@concentric.net (steve) wrote:
Hey, Macdhud---
When are you going to stop making an ass of yourself in public?
I never claimed to be a programming wizard--or a programmer of any time (I
don't count my Fortran / IBM 360 experience 20 years ago).
I see you are up to your usual bullshit. You don't have any real arguments
so you throw out stupid, moronic, ad hominem attacks.
--
Regards,
Joe Ragosta
Jeremy Reimer
> Hey, Macdhud---
>
> When are you going to stop making an ass of yourself in public?
>
> I never claimed to be a programming wizard--or a programmer of any time (I
> don't count my Fortran / IBM 360 experience 20 years ago).
>
> I see you are up to your usual bullshit. You don't have any real arguments
> so you throw out stupid, moronic, ad hominem attacks.
Well, maybe he's just doing it to bait you until you finally admit that yes,
Virginia, the Mac is a pain to program for. Because that's been
corroborated by pretty much everyone on this newsgroup who has ever actually
programmed a Mac. (Although I do hear that the very latest version of MacOS
has improved this problem slightly.. anything and I do mean anything would
be better than the days of System 7.5 (shudder):)
You know, the fact that the Mac *is* a pain to program for doesn't
necessarily invalidate all the other positive things about the platform!