That is just it, Bond tells Jaws that he and his girlfriend are not part of
the plan. Jaws is probably on the station because he is the muscle and Drax
may need him.
And then there's Jaws' single line
> of speech... despite the fact that the novelization of The Spy Who
> Loved Me (written by the same man who wrote the scripts for both films
> in question) says he has no vocal cords.
>
> >The villain: Michael Lonsdale is superb as Drax. Understated, well
spoken,
> >quietly menacing. The way he snaps his fingers for his dogs is just
great. A
> >cool, collected individual. I love his line, "See that some harm comes
to
> >him."
>
> Yeah, he had some great lines, but I found him to be annoyingly
> monotone. A real cardboard actor.
>
> >The Bond girl: The beautiful Lois Chiles plays Holly GOodhead. Okay, Ms
> >Chiles isn't going to win any acting awards anytime soon (but most of the
Bond
> >girls, at least the ones who make it to the end are rather weakly acted),
but
> >the character is superb. She is Bond's equal in every way.
>
> Well, I think that's a stretch. Agent Triple-X is his equal in every
> way, but Goodhead? Naah. She's hardly got any characterization in
> the film, so we have no idea how compatible she'd be with Bond.
>
> >The filming: the locations are wonderful and the visuals are great. The
stunts
> >are breathtaking, especially the skydive at the beginning. The space
effects
> >have actually aged very well and don't look that dated, unlike many of
the
> >other Star Wars wannabes of the late 70's.
>
> Really? Wow. I find the effects utterly embarrassing, not to mention
> exceedingly inaccurate, and the attempts to have people look like
> they're in zero-gravity are downright laughable.
>
> >There are the silly bits, but they are kept to a minimum.
>
> Not at all! Jaws flying? Double-taking pigeons? Jaws' girlfriend's
> braces? The entire laser battle? Silliness abounds in this film.
>
> >John Barry's music is gorgeous, especially all the spacey stuff.
>
> Yes, on that we agree. Wonderful music.
>
> >Major re-evaluation required.
>
> Major re-editing of the film required. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>That is just it, Bond tells Jaws that he and his girlfriend are not part of
>the plan. Jaws is probably on the station because he is the muscle and Drax
>may need him.
>
I don't fully understand a Man like JAWS anyway, yes he's a hit man for hired
but to work for people like DRAX, or Stomberg who plan to distroy the world?!
Vince
Check out the Super-Hard Show Biz Quiz (Special James Bond Section) at...
http://www.holvbphoto.com
Because he's an evil super-villain, and they can do things
like that! Infinite money and resources. Blofeld lived
inside a volcano for crying out loud!
> Since when does the Secret Service or the CIA or any
major
>powers have laser guns they can use to have a full-fledged
laser
>battle in space?
It's a logical development of the large laser weapon
Goldfinger uses to cut his way into Fort Knox. Technology
in the Bond films is always that much more advanced than it
is in reality.
Andrew
Cynic <rhan...@optonline.net> wrote ...
> Hi, Trey,
>
> Before I post my opinion, please know up front
> that I'm not disrespecting your own opinion. I
> simply disagree. :)
>
That's why they call you Rich "Mr. Nice Guy" Handley!
>
> There are a LOT of loose ends, though. For example,
> how did Drax remove his entire lab and replace it with
> a drawing room in a matter of hours?
>
That's actually quite a good question, Rich. I suggest
we ask the experts on their opinions of how this feat
might have been accomplished. Peredur? Mac?
Zielinski? Reed? King? Your vast knowledge of
all things Bondian is required, gentlemen.
> Since when does the Secret Service or the CIA
> or any major powers have laser guns they can use
> to have a full-fledged laser battle in space?
>
Actually the organization in question is the US space
marines. And note that the appearance of the laser
guns in the final battle does not come as a complete
surprise to the audience because we actually see
such a weapon being tested in Q's field laboratory.
Recall that it melts the face off of a mannequin. This
was a nice touch -- and intentional, I'm sure -- it adds
a measure of believability in the sense that we (the
audience) are aware that such a weapon exists before
it is used in the grand finale outer space battle.
>
> There are a lot of problems with the whole premise
> of Jaws and his girlfriend, though. He meets her
> after his accident and everything seems peachy at
> first.
>
Many people believe in "love at first sight". Nothing
unusual about this.
> But when she finds out he's a hired killer for a lunatic
> who wants to build a master race in space (an idiotic
> concept in and of itself), why does she blindly, happily
> go along with this? She doesn't know him at all, and
> suddenly she's going to abandon her entire life and
> family -- let them all DIE, even -- mere hours after
> meeting Jaws?? It's not even remotely believable.
>
My impression is that Dolly is not aware of Drax's
plans. As far as she knows, she is getting to go on
an exciting little day trip to an orbiting satellite with
her new lover. Who wouldn't be excited about
such a fun prospect?
> Then there are other problems -- why would Drax
> even allow her on the station? She's a wild card,
> in that she's not gone through any of the training
> and (I'd assume) brain-washing the others have,
> and Drax knows nothing about her physiology to
> determine if she's good enough to be a part of his
> master race.
>
Again, my impression is that Drax was most likely
planning to jettison Dolly -- and Jaws, too, after
he had served his purpose. It was just a matter
of time -- they were not going to be accepted as
part of Drax's new order.
> And then there's Jaws' single line of speech...
> despite the fact that the novelization of The Spy
> Who Loved Me (written by the same man who
> wrote the scripts for both films in question) says
> he has no vocal cords.
>
Ahh, yes. Perhaps the most controversial element
in any Bond film. Having spent years studying
and analyzing this perplexing scene, my conclusion
is that Jaws could indeed speak all along. He just
never had anything he wanted to say until that moment.
>
> Well, I think that's a stretch. Agent Triple-X is his
> equal in every way, but Goodhead? Naah. She's
> hardly got any characterization in the film, so we
> have no idea how compatible she'd be with Bond.
>
But Agent XXX did sort of stumble into the role of
helpless Bond girl who requires saving towards
the end of the film. How did she let Stromberg
tie her down to that chair? Surely she knows
a few karate moves or something. In hand to hand
combat between XXX and Stromberg, my money
would be on XXX.
Refreshingly, Goodhead never stumbles into this
category. Granted, there was a lot more chemistry
between XXX and Bond.
>
> Really? Wow. I find the effects utterly
> embarrassing, not to mention exceedingly inaccurate,
> and the attempts to have people look like
> they're in zero-gravity are downright laughable.
>
Does the final battle above the Death Star in "Star Wars"
come across as laughable to you? Because whenever
the lasers fire, we hear sounds. Whenever an X-Wing
or Tie-Fighter blows up, we hear explosions. But in space
there wouldn't be any sounds.
My point is that the mistakes in the physics probably aren't
noticeable to the vast majority of viewers, and just as in
Star Wars, I don't find the mistakes to be bothersome or
annoying. For me, the special effects of the space
battle in Moonraker have actually held up rather well with
time.
>
> Not at all! Jaws flying?
>
Contrary to popular belief, Jaws was not flapping his arms
in an attempt to fly like a bird. Rather, he saw the circus
tent in the far distance and knew that his only chance of
survival would be to angle his descent in that direction.
His arm movement was an attempt to adjust his course
in that direction. Quite understandable, really.
> Double-taking pigeons?
The pigeon was startled! It couldn't believe it's eyes that
it was seeing a man riding down the streets of Venice in
a giant hovercraft.
> Jaws' girlfriend's braces?
She had a slight overbite which required orthodontal work.
Many people do. What is so silly about this?
Any other nitpicks about this brilliant film?
--Mike
"Welcome to California, Mr. Bond."
"I like it already."
>Hi, Trey,
>
>Before I post my opinion, please know up front that I'm not
>disrespecting your own opinion. I simply disagree. :)
>
>
>cwej...@aol.comnojunk (Trey Korte) wrote:
>>The plot: Interestingly enough, the plot, outrageous as it is, holds up rather
>>well. There aren't any real loose ends and the whole thing works.
>
>There are a LOT of loose ends, though. For example, how did Drax
>remove his entire lab and replace it with a drawing room in a matter
>of hours? Since when does the Secret Service or the CIA or any major
>powers have laser guns they can use to have a full-fledged laser
>battle in space?
Since when does anyone have a reusable space vehicle that can recover
(involuntarily no less) a Gemini capsule and land with PINPOINT
accuracy in an enclosed space? With a turnaround time of less than a
week, at that! (YOLT, natch) What the heck does SPECTRE need ransom
money for? They won the space race!
A regard Moonraker as a guilty pleasure. It typifies much of what I
consider "Bond gone wrong" such as the gonola and The Magnificent
Seven theme (I can't even MENTION the pigeon). It continues the theme
of James Bond, Not Really Very Secret Agent ("Your reputation precedes
you").
But it's got some real gems. Anything with Drax. Bond with the
rifle. The centerfuge (What? Roger Moore was HUMAN?). I LOVE
Medding's special effects (dated but gorgeous). Bernard Lee ("007!").
Ken Adams! Holly Goodhead (Yeah, she's stiff, but who CARES? Take ME
around the world one more time!). One of John Barry's best Bond
scores (or a reprise of The Black Hole if you like). And more babes
per frame than any Bond _I_ can think of!
It's not as silly as either of Guy Hamilton's Moore movies and it's
not even close to the excrement of AVTAK. It doesn't hold a candle to
a Terence Young Bond, but gee whiz, it's a romp!
Bill Thomas
"I think he's attempting re-entry, sir!"
Not at the office where I work. :)
>That's actually quite a good question, Rich. I suggest
>we ask the experts on their opinions of how this feat
>might have been accomplished. Peredur? Mac?
>Zielinski? Reed? King? Your vast knowledge of
>all things Bondian is required, gentlemen.
The irony is that the scene in question is something I actually LIKE
about Moonraker. I just find it highly implausible, if fun.
>Actually the organization in question is the US space
>marines.
Thanks -- I couldn't remember who it was.
>And note that the appearance of the laser
>guns in the final battle does not come as a complete
>surprise to the audience because we actually see
>such a weapon being tested in Q's field laboratory.
>Recall that it melts the face off of a mannequin. This
>was a nice touch -- and intentional, I'm sure -- it adds
>a measure of believability in the sense that we (the
>audience) are aware that such a weapon exists before
>it is used in the grand finale outer space battle.
Okay, you have a point there. In fact, I admittedly have to scratch
that complaint because your response is entirely valid and effectively
knocked my complaint to the wayside. D'OH! :)
>Many people believe in "love at first sight". Nothing
>unusual about this.
Oh, I guess I didn't word that the way I intended. I have no problem
with their love at first sight. I was simply pointing out that their
immediate love shouldn't have have been enough to make her go along
with Drax's plans.
>My impression is that Dolly is not aware of Drax's
>plans. As far as she knows, she is getting to go on
>an exciting little day trip to an orbiting satellite with
>her new lover. Who wouldn't be excited about
>such a fun prospect?
Hmmmm.... okay, not a bad explanation. (Keep in mind that I AM
willing to be convinced to change my mind.)
>Again, my impression is that Drax was most likely
>planning to jettison Dolly -- and Jaws, too, after
>he had served his purpose. It was just a matter
>of time -- they were not going to be accepted as
>part of Drax's new order.
Alright, I'll accept that explanation as well. I have to be honest,
though -- this film still just doesn't sit well with me. It makes me
annoyed any time I try to watch it, for some reason.
>Ahh, yes. Perhaps the most controversial element
>in any Bond film. Having spent years studying
>and analyzing this perplexing scene, my conclusion
>is that Jaws could indeed speak all along. He just
>never had anything he wanted to say until that moment.
So the narrator of Woods' TSWLM novelization was simply in error about
the vocal cords thing, eh? :) Hmmm... I dunno about that one... I
think that has to remain a continuity error -- much like Bond asking
Christmas what he needs to defuse a nuclear bomb, even though he's
done it several times himself without her help.
>But Agent XXX did sort of stumble into the role of
>helpless Bond girl who requires saving towards
>the end of the film. How did she let Stromberg
>tie her down to that chair? Surely she knows
>a few karate moves or something. In hand to hand
>combat between XXX and Stromberg, my money
>would be on XXX.
Maybe she LIKES being tied down. :)
>Refreshingly, Goodhead never stumbles into this
>category. Granted, there was a lot more chemistry
>between XXX and Bond.
Here's something you might find funny, given my distaste for the
character of Dr. Goodhead. A friend of mine works in the publicity
industry and hung out with her and Jaws a few years back. She got
autographed pictures of each of them for me, and on hers she wrote
"Dear Rich, Thanks for being such a great fan! Love, Lois" I
appreciated the picture and all... but I had to chuckle at the
inscription.
>Does the final battle above the Death Star in "Star Wars"
>come across as laughable to you? Because whenever
>the lasers fire, we hear sounds. Whenever an X-Wing
>or Tie-Fighter blows up, we hear explosions. But in space
>there wouldn't be any sounds.
Point taken.
>My point is that the mistakes in the physics probably aren't
>noticeable to the vast majority of viewers, and just as in
>Star Wars, I don't find the mistakes to be bothersome or
>annoying.
Star Wars is perfect! Star Wars is perf -- oh, alright, your point is
made here as well.
>For me, the special effects of the space battle
>in Moonraker have actually held up rather well with time.
Which is certainly fine, of course.
>Contrary to popular belief, Jaws was not flapping his arms
>in an attempt to fly like a bird. Rather, he saw the circus
>tent in the far distance and knew that his only chance of
>survival would be to angle his descent in that direction.
>His arm movement was an attempt to adjust his course
>in that direction. Quite understandable, really.
LOL! Okay, that's a stretch, but I'll buy it because it's just so
darn clever. :)
>The pigeon was startled! It couldn't believe it's eyes that
>it was seeing a man riding down the streets of Venice in
>a giant hovercraft.
Heh heh! That one I dunno if I can accept...
>She had a slight overbite which required orthodontal work.
>Many people do. What is so silly about this?
Oh, I don't have a problem with her having braces -- it's the fact
that their attraction to each other seems to be because they each have
metal on their teeth. Now THERE's a great basis for any relationship!
>Any other nitpicks about this brilliant film?
Yes. Roger Moore is a weenie. :)
|>That's actually quite a good question, Rich. I suggest
|>we ask the experts on their opinions of how this feat
|>might have been accomplished. Peredur? Mac?
|>Zielinski? Reed? King? Your vast knowledge of
|>all things Bondian is required, gentlemen.
|
|The irony is that the scene in question is something I actually LIKE
|about Moonraker. I just find it highly implausible, if fun.
Wow, I'm an expert? Thanks! I'm with Rich, Mike, that's one of the few
things about MR that doesn't actually bother me. I think, as any good
super-villain would, Drax had prepared for any eventuality and had the
manpower available to dismantle that lab at a moment's notice. I thought
the lab was built inside the drawing room, so it's not as if he brought
in emergency decorators or anything. <g>
-- Mac
"Mr. Rusk, you're not wearing your tie."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please remove SPAMLESS to reply.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I always wondered what Laurence Llewellyn-Bowen and Carol Smillie did before
"Changing Rooms" :o)
LOL!
Chuck
My first reaction is, "it's a *movie", as it seems impossible the lab could
be moved in such a short time, but then, it is to the villain's credit and a
nod to his own stated genius that he can stump Bond/MI6 with such a swift
change. I read another poster say that Drax anticipated the lab possibly
being discovered and had meaures in place already to move/tear down/render
invisible its existence in a very short time. That sounds most plausible to
me, the physics of which are reminiscent of large men inflating, defying
gravity, and bursting like balloons.
But that is a different cartoon.
Tom Zielinski
Lake In The Hills, IL USA
"Life is Funny, But I'm Not Laughing..."
|My first reaction is, "it's a *movie", as it seems impossible the lab could
|be moved in such a short time, but then, it is to the villain's credit and a
|nod to his own stated genius that he can stump Bond/MI6 with such a swift
|change. I read another poster say that Drax anticipated the lab possibly
|being discovered and had meaures in place already to move/tear down/render
|invisible its existence in a very short time. That sounds most |plausible to
|me, the physics of which are reminiscent of large men inflating, defying
|gravity, and bursting like balloons.
|
|But that is a different cartoon.
Oi! Well, *I'm* the poster you're referring to, Tom. What I actually said
was:
"I think, as any good super-villain would, Drax had prepared for any
eventuality and had the manpower available to dismantle that lab at a
moment's notice. I thought the lab was built inside the drawing room, so it's
not as if he brought in emergency decorators or anything. <g>"
Please note the "inside the drawing room" part. What time-scale are we
discussing? overnight?
-- Mac
"You're a very bad man, Walker, a very destructive man!"
|>Please note the "inside the drawing room" part. What time-scale are we
|>discussing? overnight?
|-- Mac
|
|Definitely overnight. The sequence directly after the punch-up with Chang
|is happening about dinner-time / early evening. As it's not yet completely
|dark in Venice when 007 turns up at Holly's, and Holly is just about to hop
|into bed, I'd reckon 007's nocturnal turn happens sometime between 8-00pm
|and 11-00pm. He spends the night with Holly and then has to wait for M and
|the Minister to turn up, and judging from the light and the crowds at Venice
|it must be about noon when they go into Drax's office, so Drax's cleanup
|squad have had at least eight hours to tidy up. There's bound to have been
|a few of them, and anyone who's seen those decorating makeover shows will
|realise it's bundles of time.
I thought the lab equipment was inside the drawing room, and as it was only
a temporary installation, the removal of the equipment isn't THAT
far-fetched. Certainly not when compared with other aspects of MR or indeed
Mr. Big's inflation, flight and subsequent explosion.
I seem to recall a similar stunt was pulled in 'Capricorn One' when Robert
Walden's character is vanished from the face of the Earth and new people
are installed in his apartment. Carol Smillie again?
I'm taking this far too personally.
I'll get me overalls...