Howard Stern publicly disses TWINE this morning
Supra320HP
purchased over the weeked on DVD. TWINE was one of them, and he said it was
horrible. He was actually going to throw it out, but gave it to one of his
co-workers instead. The co-worker (Jackie the jokeman) said how bad can it be,
its a 007 movie. Stern then replied that it was the worst 007 he ever saw, and
said it was just horrible.
I can't believe how bad of a rap this movie is getting. With more bad reviews
and opinions like the one Stern gave, the next Bond movie is going to have to
be pretty spectacular to beat TWINE's rap. You know, maybe its time to think
about ending the run - I hate to even think about it, but think about what will
happen if the next one is just as bad, or even worse than TWINE.
Lipid Quadcab
the movie made 300 plus million dollars...so why would MGM even think about
ending the run?
--
Lipid Quadcab
lipidq...@home.com
"The more I know, the less I understand"
Don Henley, The Heart of the Matter
"Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000724085011...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
David A. Elliott
stunt. There was not much of a story to it.... it was all stunts! The Bond
films have to get a bit more original. Unfortunately, LTK was the last
somewhat original Bond film (wasn't stuck in the mold too much) but was not
received all that well. It could be because the public unfortunately didn't
care for Dalton, but with Brosnan, it could work.
Kelly Clarke
dishes out. His movie wasn't exactly a work of Art. "Private Parts" stunk.
And I wouldn't waste my time, or money reading any of his books.
The Shadow
"Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote :
>TWINE was one of them, and he said it was
>horrible.
Stern would not know a good story if it bit him in the behind.
>You know, maybe its time to think
>about ending the run - I hate to even think about it, but think about what
will
>happen if the next one is just as bad, or even worse than TWINE.
The film made truckloads of money for MGM and Fleming's James Bond has
finally returned, EON is running to the bank with all the money.
--
"The boss of Blofeld's sword battered into Bond's side. Bond hardly felt
the crashing blows. He pressed with his thumbs, and pressed and heard the
sword clang to the floor and felt Blofeld's fingers and nails tearing at his
face, trying to reach his eyes. Bond whispered through his gritted teeth,
'Die,Blofeld! Die!' And suddenly the tongue was out and the eyes rolled
upwards and the body slipped down to the ground. But Bond followed it and
knelt, his hands cramped round the powerful neck, seeing nothing, hearing
nothing, in the terrible grip of blood lust."
You Only Live Twice - Ian Fleming
http://www.alt-fan-james-bond.co.uk/
Ickyboy1
money, and the run will only stop, or at least take a hiatus (as in the
LTK-Goldeneye break) when they stop turning profit.
Terry Hine
Paul Baack
many action sequences! (to which Robin agreed.) Anybody who listens to the
Stern show regularly knows that he has the cinematic tastes of, say, a very
smart and perceptive twelve-year-old.
This is the mindset that the James Bond film producers should be addressing
themselves to. When a guy who says "X-Men" was one of the best films he's
ever seen says that TWINE was bad because of too much action, what he's
really saying to the filmmakers is "don't hedge your bets; don't cover up
lack of story with additional actions scenes." The thing that Howard really
admired about "X-Men" was its complete seriousness: no jokes; no winks at
the audience; just the story of the mutants presented in all of its (soap)
operatic grandeur.
For the record, I don't agree with Howard's assessment of TWINE; I think
it's the best Bond film since OHMSS. I do understand his point of view,
though. He refuses to accept dumbness in his pop culture. The more
comic-booky the material, the straighter it should be played. Otherwise,
the sharp twelve-year-olds won't buy it.
Paul
"Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000724085011...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> This morning on the Howard Stern show, Stern was commenting on some movies
he
> purchased over the weeked on DVD. TWINE was one of them, and he said it
was
> horrible. He was actually going to throw it out, but gave it to one of
his
> co-workers instead. The co-worker (Jackie the jokeman) said how bad can
it be,
> its a 007 movie. Stern then replied that it was the worst 007 he ever
saw, and
> said it was just horrible.
>
> I can't believe how bad of a rap this movie is getting. With more bad
reviews
> and opinions like the one Stern gave, the next Bond movie is going to have
to
> be pretty spectacular to beat TWINE's rap. You know, maybe its time to
Blofeld
> that happen?).
I have to agree. Actually I enjoyed TWINE at the theaters on it's
initial run, and thought it was one of the best of the series since
FYEO. But after watching the DVD, I found myself wincing at the
self-conscious acting (the stuff between Elektra and Renard was
expecially bad), awkward stunts, and terrible directing (unimaginative
photography/composition/lighting). Unlike my other Bond DVDs, I will
probably not return to this one very often.
If anything I think you just have to give credit to Brosnan for TRYING
to make a deeper, more sophisticated Bond film. Unfortunately EON does
not hire writers or directors who are up to this task...they are too
friggin' cheap (others might say greedy).
Noctem Aeternvs
TND. I'd have to say the worst is LALD, but in terms of the recent ones, it
can't get worse than TND. It was a step in the right direction--the producers
merely had to get over the hump TND left. I'd have to say the next one could be
one of the better ones. It will have more preperation time, and therefore
better scripting, less rushing, and more time taken to seek out the best
possible cast and crew. Just give it time.
Marc Worthy
menacing than Carver. Also-- and please don't take this the wrong way
because I love the UK--how, exactly, was Britain going to wage a naval war
against China? That part of the plot did not strike me as very plausible.
Noctem Aeternvs <noctema...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000724214801...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
Richard Ashton
Going back to November I do recall yours and Tom's early praise of
TWINE. Maybe seeing your enthusiastic endorsement got my hopes up too
high, but I swear we must have seen different films. I'd have liked to
place TWINE in the highest regards of OHMSS - but just couldn't do it.
Now that time has passed, has your thoughts on TWINE altered at all? And
if not, what really made you rate it so highly?
I hate to admit it, but I find myself siding with Howard Stern (how did
that happen?).
Richard
Tom Zielinski
a couple parts of the film (parahawks, cigar factory, R's buffoonery, the
Q-boat on land) have lessened somewhat my overall appreciation of the film.
Some of the one-liners are clunkers. But the positive sequences are as
Bondian as we have seen in a very long time. And Mr. Brosnan is wonderful.
As are Sophie Marceau and Judi Dench. Some of the small touches work
tremendously well, and *that* is what has been missing. Had the script been
tightened up just a tad, a more powerful film could have been delivered, I
think rather painlessly.
Yet I would still contend it is the best overall film since 1969 based on
the characterization, casting (even with Ms. Richards), music, and Pierce
Brosnan. "The Living Daylights", "For Your Eyes Only" and "The Spy Who
Loved Me" are the only other films that come close.
I listen to Howard Stern virtually every morning during my commute. His
assessment disappoints but does not surprise. I think many casual viewers
of the Bond films expect the outlandish style of Austin Powers, and are
disappointed when some nehru-jacketed megalomaniac in a hollowed-out volcano
with a Mojo theft-machine is nowhere to be seen. These casual fans can have
no appreciation of some of the nuance of this film such as the interplay
between Bond and M, a reference to Bond's tragic marriage, Bernard Lee, Q's
aging, among several others. They expect explosions and gunplay and a
completely outlandish plot with some hook that differentiates Bond from
other "action-adventure" films. The hook exists; it is just not easily
appreciated by those not intimately familiar with the series.
That's OK though. I'll easily take this film over "Moonraker" among too
many others.
"The World Is Not Enough". Best James Bond film since "On Her Majesty's
Secret Service".
(Geez I'm bold...)
Tom Zielinski
Lake In The Hills, IL USA
"Life is Funny, But I'm Not Laughing..."
Richard Ashton wrote in message <397D0BB0...@home.com>...
Supra320HP
represent public opinion. First of all, he does like action movies, and
second, his opinion does sway a lot of people. If he says an action movie is
bad, then a lot of people will listen. Now i'm not saying that his word is
law, but he does have some influence.
As for the poeple who said TWINE made a lot of money, you're right, it did.
But just like George Lucas is getting a lot of bad feedback on Star Wars Ep 1,
i'm sure MGM is getting a lot of bad feedback on TWINE. I mean let's face it
people, the movie had its moments, and god knows i've watched it at least 20
times already, but i'm always skipping to the "good parts" - i never do that in
any other Bond flick. For those of you that say TWINE is better than TND -
well, i won't even go there. In terms of which movie has more "classic" bond
elements - TND wins - hands down.
Anyway, all i'm trying to say is that its not cool if Stern disses the movie.
It doesn't convey a positive attitude towards the next film for the normal Bond
moviegoers.
Marc Worthy
Secret Service".
I was going to write something in defense of Moonraker while, at the same
time, insulting the above films but I think we have been through this
before. I resist the temptation. I will agree on the minor point that TWINE
is better than TND.
Tom Zielinski <rt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cDff5.8489$ga2.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
The Shadow
"Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote :
>Ok, here's my point - Stern is definately not the best critic, but he does
>represent public opinion.
Since when?
He gives new meaning to the term "ugly American" and his radio show is based
on shock value to hide the fact that he has no talent.
--
"His last action was to slip his right hand onto the pillow until it rested
on the butt of a Police Positive with the sawn barrel. Then he slept, and
with the warmth and humour of his eyes extinguished his features relapsed
into a taciturn mask, ironical, brutal, and cold."
Casino Royale - Ian Fleming
Rhino
wrote:
>
>"Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote :
>>Ok, here's my point - Stern is definately not the best critic, but he does
>>represent public opinion.
>
>
>
>Since when?
>
>He gives new meaning to the term "ugly American" and his radio show is based
>on shock value to hide the fact that he has no talent.
I have no idea who Howard Stern is
I think I should add, "I'm glad to say"
He sounds dire
--
The licence to kill for the Secret Service, the double-0 prefix, was a
great honour. It had been earned hardly. It brought James Bond the
only assignments he enjoyed - the dangerous ones.
www.alt-fan-james-bond.co.uk
www.rhino.org.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/rhino
Kelly Clarke
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Supra320HP <supra...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725093120...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> Ok, here's my point - Stern is definately not the best critic, but he does
Ace Wheel Man
the ships could deploy
Marc Worthy <marcw...@home.com> wrote in message
news:j97f5.39447$V34.4...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
Marc Worthy
its first response, launch nuclear weapons at China over some sunken ships.
The UK has no conventional response to a Chinese attack.
Ace Wheel Man <malcolm....@dtn.ntl.com> wrote in message
news:PDkf5.9153$yE4.1...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Lance Hirsch
become "serious fans", the attitide about an Austin Powers style Bond will
continue to pollute us. There was a thread about casual vs. serious fans
some time back. This also goes to the point about Bond being "over the top"
and "larger than life". Sadly, movies aren't made for the fans as we are in
the minority.
Lance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"...Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people and that most
of them seemed to come from Texas."
Casino Royale. Chapter VII
Tom Zielinski <rt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cDff5.8489$ga2.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Richard Ashton
Tom Zielinski wrote:
>
> Speaking only for myself (and not Paul) I will say that on repeated viewings
> a couple parts of the film (parahawks, cigar factory, R's buffoonery, the
> Q-boat on land) have lessened somewhat my overall appreciation of the film.
I found these to be too Batman-esque and not Bond.
> Some of the one-liners are clunkers. But the positive sequences are as
> Bondian as we have seen in a very long time. And Mr. Brosnan is wonderful.
Agreed. But oddly sour at the same time. While he was wonderful in the
pre-credits, things didn't look so good in the middle of the film.
> (snip)
>
> I think many casual viewers
> of the Bond films expect the outlandish style of Austin Powers, and are
> disappointed when some nehru-jacketed megalomaniac in a hollowed-out volcano
> with a Mojo theft-machine is nowhere to be seen.
Here's where my opinion differs. In a different thread I made the
statement that I though AP2 was more Bondish than TWINE, and although
directly spoofing Bond, AP2 had more of a genuine Bond feel to it.
Further, the very point you make above (carefully ambiguously stated -
not sure if you're spoofing yourself or not) is probably exactly what's
missing from Bond. Interestingly, you say TWINE is the best since OHMSS
and TSWLM - both of which featured Nehru-jacketed megalomanics in some
form of hidden fortress. So I find your position at odds with what you
relate to (again - I could be missing your irony here - forgive me if
thats the case).
> These casual fans can have
> no appreciation of some of the nuance of this film such as the interplay
> between Bond and M, a reference to Bond's tragic marriage, Bernard Lee, Q's
> aging, among several others.
In TWINE I thought these were not very well played. Casual fan or
die-hard, it didn't make a difference. Especially Q's statement, "I've
always taught you two things..." since when??!?!? Q's always been
indifferent to Bond and now Q is full of affection. Again, it goes to
misinterpretations of the core relationships. Don't get me going on what
they've done to Moneypenny.
> They expect explosions and gunplay and a
> completely outlandish plot with some hook that differentiates Bond from
> other "action-adventure" films.
If that were so, wouldn't TWINE have done better? It's too easy to make
a broad sweeping slant at 'casual' fans.
> The hook exists; it is just not easily
> appreciated by those not intimately familiar with the series.
Don't buy that. For the most part US audiences discovered Bond with GF
in 1964 - largely unaware of DN and FRWL. There was something else that
defined that film - style, wit, tempo - just to name a few. All three
were absent from TWINE.
> That's OK though. I'll easily take this film over "Moonraker" among too
> many others.
>
> "The World Is Not Enough". Best James Bond film since "On Her Majesty's
> Secret Service".
>
> (Geez I'm bold...)
Bold indeed. I like Brosnan a lot - but only GE makes it to the top
picks.
Richard
Paul Baack
to this thread. Howard Stern's taste in pop culture runs along the lines of
a *smart,* *perceptive,* twelve-year-old. He makes no bones about his love
of comic books and action movies, but does not suffer gladly badly-executed
or ill-conceived productions of the things he loves.
Smart, perceptive, twelve-year-old boys are *precisely* the market for James
Bond movies, no matter what the actual chronological age or actual gender of
the viewer; i.e., seeing a new 007 flick should make you feel twelve (a
smart twelve,) all over again. Taking two rules from Science Fiction
criticism; Sturgeon's rule that the Golden Age of Science Fiction was
"twelve;" and that something either "works" or "doesn't work," TWINE did not
"work" for the twelve-year-old Howard Stern. He explained why in succinct
detail, but his argument boiled down to the "such-and-such SUKS" vs.
"such-and-such ROOLZ" variety, which is pretty much simply an extreme
version of "works/doesn't work."
Eon and MGM/UA disenfranchise the twelve-year-olds at their own peril.
Howard Stern is America's twelve-year-old; he knows when he's being marketed
to and resents it, and he will not tolerate dumbed-down product. He is the
acid test for a James Bond film.
I don't know that he's got all that much influence over a particular movie's
boxoffice, but here's two interesting things: His comments about "X-Men"
got my wife interested in seeing it; and it's not an exaggeration to say
that he got the current governors of both New Jersey and New York elected.
I also reiterate my differing opinion that TWINE is the best Bond film since
OHMSS. It's a flawed film, but it's got more genuinely Bondian elements
since any film since the sixties. But I'm an old fan, who, having suffered
through the seventies entries and the Roger Moore years, welcomes any new
007 adventure borne of serious intent with surprise, delight, and huge
relief.
Paul
_____________________________
Paul Baack
ba...@hmss.com
Her Majesty's Secret Servant
www.hmss.com
Blofeld
> job, they at least paid out a lot of money to a lot of top writers - so
> one couldn't use the term 'cheap' at all.
They did not hire "top" writers. They hired Daniel Petrie Jr. Check out
his credentials on the Internet Movie Database.
> What would you do? You're responsible for a $120 million budget and a
> film that has minimum expectations of delivering $300 million worldwide.
> How much of a gamble are you going to take? Remember, they've lived
> through OHMSS, TMWTGG and LTK - so they know the downside of taking
> risks.
Christ. These people are more wealthy than we on the NG can even
conceive of. They've got gazillions of dollars in the bank from umpteen
moneymaking blockbusters. They should either pony up and hire some
A-list talent or sell their interests in the franchise.
Tom Zielinski
pushback to some of the admittedly controversial points in my post. Am at a
sales meeting and will respond in kind this week...
Tom Zielinski
Lake In The Hills, IL USA
"Life is Funny, But I'm Not Laughing..."
Richard Ashton wrote in message <397E0202...@home.com>...
Richard Ashton
> Am at a
> sales meeting and will respond in kind this week...
See the quota. Be the quota. Make the quota.
Richard
PaperBill007
Domino6242
>If anything I think you just have to give credit to Brosnan for TRYING
>to make a deeper, more sophisticated Bond film. Unfortunately EON does
>not hire writers or directors who are up to this task...they are too
>friggin' cheap (others might say greedy).
Its a shame that EON won't put out the money for better writers or even
recognize they could use better writers to do the Bond films.
While I don't think they should end the Bond series, I do believe a cabinet
shake up at EON is in order, starting with the writers or maybe the Broccolis
themselves.
Thats a long shot and would never happen but I wonder what would happen if
someone other than the Broccolis produced a Bond film. I fear that they've
lived with the Bond franchise too long and can't see outside the box so to
speak.
What frustrated me about TWINE as I watched it in the theatre was that it
contained practically everything we asked for on the ng. Less stunts, more
story, better characterizations. While we got them, the movie still wasn't up
to scratch in my opinion and I believe that most of that has to do with the
writing and the directing.
Cheers--
Lanaia
Richard Ashton
>
> Its a shame that EON won't put out the money for better writers or even
> recognize they could use better writers to do the Bond films.
How true is that? I think that with GE they got off to a good start.
With TND things backfired a lot. They awarded the script to BF, who's
first draft was basically not up to snuff. But they had a hard start
date and ended up paying a lot of new writers (uncredited) a lot of
money to rework TND into a workable screenplay. So while TND was a rush
job, they at least paid out a lot of money to a lot of top writers - so
one couldn't use the term 'cheap' at all.
> While I don't think they should end the Bond series, I do believe a cabinet
> shake up at EON is in order, starting with the writers or maybe the Broccolis
> themselves.
How about MGM? EON has suffered management shake-ups at MGM for all of
the Bonds since MGM bought UA in the 80s. Each new management tries to
exert influence and control over the Bonds in a vain attempt to take
credit for the continued success of the Bonds (look how much credit John
Calley personally took for GE). It's a wonder that EON puts up with it
as well as they do.
> Thats a long shot and would never happen but I wonder what would happen if
> someone other than the Broccolis produced a Bond film. I fear that they've
> lived with the Bond franchise too long and can't see outside the box so to
> speak.
What would you do? You're responsible for a $120 million budget and a
film that has minimum expectations of delivering $300 million worldwide.
How much of a gamble are you going to take? Remember, they've lived
through OHMSS, TMWTGG and LTK - so they know the downside of taking
risks.
> What frustrated me about TWINE as I watched it in the theatre was that it
> contained practically everything we asked for on the ng.
Yes! Wasn't that ironic. Be careful what you wish for...
> Less stunts, more
> story, better characterizations. While we got them, the movie still wasn't up
> to scratch in my opinion and I believe that most of that has to do with the
> writing and the directing.
Richard
ba...@my-deja.com
I can't speak for Tom, but my November post about TWINE was in some
part borne of huge relief.
I fully expected TWINE to blow goats. Based on my friendship with
Raymond Benson, and some brief correspondence with Bruce Feirstein, I
had some in-depth prior knowledge of the plot, story, and individual
events that would make up the film. All indicators pointed to a
complete train wreck of a James Bond movie.
When Tom and I saw TWINE at a special early screening, our jaws hit the
floor. Here was a film that showed a classicist's James Bond: short of
hair, lean of build, dressed in a tailored grey suit with a black
knitted tie. Here was a twisty plot line, with the villain the one you
did not expect it to be; a villain Bond has to execute in a little bit
of heated blood. Here was a totally cool and gorgeous music score:
the cues for the ski sequence are classic James Bond. Here was a 007
story for the 21st century: The Russian mafia runing chic casinos in
the middle of a country raped for its oil; weapons-grade plutonium
being traded and stolen like any other commodity on the trading bloc;
former Soviet Navy ships and personnel available for private hire;
formere KGB listening posts with Shania Twain posters up on the walls.
Etc., etc., etc.
In retrospect, TWINE is at times muddled in its storytelling and with
at least two gratuitous and distracting action sequences (something
Howard Stern complained about.) But I stand firm in my belief that this
film gave the best portrait of James Bond and the world he inhabits
than any other film since the series' 1960's heyday.
I'm a huge fan of TND; I think it is one of the best-executed films of
the series. What TWINE has over TND, however, is purity of spirit:
TWINE is chaotic and messy, but has the authentic James Bond flavor;
TND is efficient and succinct, it's recognizably a 007 movie, but its
mind is on getting its job done is a quick manner. TWINE takes time
out for dramatic scenes, and awkwardly drops in uneccessary action
sequences; TND finds breathing room between its action sequences for a
little plot exposition.
As I said above, my opinion of TWINE is probably colored by relief that
it didn't suck as badly as it should have, for which all due credit
should go to Michael Apted for making a silk purse from a sow's ear,
but as a long-time fan, I also recognize that TWINE is *real* James
Bond stuff, warts and all.
Best James Bond movie overall since OHMSS;
Best performance by an actor as James Bond since "Goldfinger;"
Best villain since LTK;
Best music since TLD;
Best-dressed James Bond ever;
Best look at the inner workings of MI6 (or SIS) since TB;
I probably could think of more but it's late.
I love this movie. But, to get back to the point of this thread, I
undertand Howard Stern's viewpoint. Eon needs to tighten things up.
Paul
In article <397D0BB0...@home.com>,
Richard Ashton <ash...@home.com> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Going back to November I do recall yours and Tom's early praise of
> TWINE. Maybe seeing your enthusiastic endorsement got my hopes up too
> high, but I swear we must have seen different films. I'd have liked to
> place TWINE in the highest regards of OHMSS - but just couldn't do it.
>
> Now that time has passed, has your thoughts on TWINE altered at all?
And
> if not, what really made you rate it so highly?
>
> I hate to admit it, but I find myself siding with Howard Stern (how
did
> that happen?).
>
> Richard
>
> > "Supra320HP" <supra...@aol.com> wrote in message
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Noctem Aeternvs
Feirstein could write a better script...
Another Time, Another Place.
Richard Ashton
As ever, many thanks for your reply. But I still can't equate your
experience to mine - and I'd desperately like to.
ba...@my-deja.com wrote:
> All indicators pointed to a
> complete train wreck of a James Bond movie.
I'd heard less than good things, too.
> When Tom and I saw TWINE at a special early screening, our jaws hit the
> floor. Here was a film that showed a classicist's James Bond: short of
> hair, lean of build, dressed in a tailored grey suit with a black
> knitted tie.
As Screamin' Jay Hawkins said in Mystery Train "Clothes make the man!"
> Here was a twisty plot line,
I didn't find it twisty - merely purposefully obtuse. Really, no
surprises here.
> with the villain the one you
> did not expect it to be;
Again. Perception perhaps. But by the time the twist came my interest
level had long since subsided. Of course, that's purely personal
assessment on my part, but the middle section was so bogged down it
appeared even Apted lost interest in the plot.
> a villain Bond has to execute in a little bit
> of heated blood.
But how do you account for the lack of drama. On paper there's a lot
going on in this scene - but it boils down to a Dirty Harry-esque throw
away line, "I never miss." Actually, I like the line a lot. But the
scene was lifeless.
> Here was a totally cool and gorgeous music score:
Okay, now I know we saw a different movie. I can count two decent cues
for the whole film. The boat chase and the downhill ski (not the
paragliders). The score was, for me, the biggest offender in the movie,
robbing any sense of drama.
> the cues for the ski sequence are classic James Bond. Here was a 007
> story for the 21st century: The Russian mafia runing chic casinos in
> the middle of a country raped for its oil; weapons-grade plutonium
> being traded and stolen like any other commodity on the trading bloc;
> former Soviet Navy ships and personnel available for private hire;
> formere KGB listening posts with Shania Twain posters up on the walls.
> Etc., etc., etc.
But didn't you get a 'ho-hum' sense to it all? Nothing is dwelled upon.
Nothing is really explained. It's all there for the purpose of yet
another bomb explosion.
> In retrospect, TWINE is at times muddled in its storytelling and with
> at least two gratuitous and distracting action sequences (something
> Howard Stern complained about.) But I stand firm in my belief that this
> film gave the best portrait of James Bond and the world he inhabits
> than any other film since the series' 1960's heyday.
>
> I'm a huge fan of TND;
Oddly enough, I have totally reappraised TND in light of TWINE.
> I think it is one of the best-executed films of
> the series. What TWINE has over TND, however, is purity of spirit:
> TWINE is chaotic and messy, but has the authentic James Bond flavor;
> TND is efficient and succinct, it's recognizably a 007 movie, but its
> mind is on getting its job done is a quick manner. TWINE takes time
> out for dramatic scenes, and awkwardly drops in uneccessary action
> sequences; TND finds breathing room between its action sequences for a
> little plot exposition.
And yet for all that I found TWINE to be a pretender - a film that wants
to be a Bond film but afraid to commit. All the elements were there, but
no one said 'GO FOR IT!'
> As I said above, my opinion of TWINE is probably colored by relief that
> it didn't suck as badly as it should have, for which all due credit
> should go to Michael Apted for making a silk purse from a sow's ear,
> but as a long-time fan, I also recognize that TWINE is *real* James
> Bond stuff, warts and all.
>
> Best James Bond movie overall since OHMSS;
I'd still take DAF above TWINE. Similar objections for both, but DAF has
the real feel of a Bond film.
> Best performance by an actor as James Bond since "Goldfinger;"
Well, how about THunderball, DAF, or even FYEO. I'd add TLD too.
> Best villain since LTK;
This was a massive let down. In concealing the twist Elecktra is
downplayed, and Renard never really gets going. I didn't find either
mennacing. Neither did Bond. Elecktra gets it with the 9mm, and Renard
gets the Bic refill in the stomach. Where's the death of Oddjob when you
need it?
> Best music since TLD;
I'd rate TND above TWINE. I'd rate GE above TND (the tank chase score by
John Altman was pure Bond).
> Best-dressed James Bond ever;
Grey suits, grey suits and grey suits. It struck me as a colorless and
styleless entry.
> Best look at the inner workings of MI6 (or SIS) since TB;
You didn't find the comparrisons to Casino Royale's Castle MacTavish
difficult?
> I probably could think of more but it's late.
I'm tired, and there's so much more to do.
> I love this movie. But, to get back to the point of this thread, I
> undertand Howard Stern's viewpoint. Eon needs to tighten things up.
Thanks Paul.
Richard
Richard Ashton
As ever, many thanks for your reply. But I still can't equate your
experience to mine - and I'd desperately like to.
ba...@my-deja.com wrote:
> All indicators pointed to a
> complete train wreck of a James Bond movie.
I'd heard less than good things, too.
> When Tom and I saw TWINE at a special early screening, our jaws hit the
> floor. Here was a film that showed a classicist's James Bond: short of
> hair, lean of build, dressed in a tailored grey suit with a black
> knitted tie.
As Screamin' Jay Hawkins said in Mystery Train "Clothes make the man!"
> Here was a twisty plot line,
I didn't find it twisty - merely purposefully obtuse. Really, no
surprises here.
> with the villain the one you
> did not expect it to be;
Again. Perception perhaps. But by the time the twist came my interest
level had long since subsided. Of course, that's purely personal
assessment on my part, but the middle section was so bogged down it
appeared even Apted lost interest in the plot.
> a villain Bond has to execute in a little bit
> of heated blood.
But how do you account for the lack of drama. On paper there's a lot
going on in this scene - but it boils down to a Dirty Harry-esque throw
away line, "I never miss." Actually, I like the line a lot. But the
scene was lifeless.
> Here was a totally cool and gorgeous music score:
Okay, now I know we saw a different movie. I can count two decent cues
for the whole film. The boat chase and the downhill ski (not the
paragliders). The score was, for me, the biggest offender in the movie,
robbing any sense of drama.
> the cues for the ski sequence are classic James Bond. Here was a 007
> story for the 21st century: The Russian mafia runing chic casinos in
> the middle of a country raped for its oil; weapons-grade plutonium
> being traded and stolen like any other commodity on the trading bloc;
> former Soviet Navy ships and personnel available for private hire;
> formere KGB listening posts with Shania Twain posters up on the walls.
> Etc., etc., etc.
But didn't you get a 'ho-hum' sense to it all? Nothing is dwelled upon.
Nothing is really explained. It's all there for the purpose of yet
another bomb explosion.
> In retrospect, TWINE is at times muddled in its storytelling and with
> at least two gratuitous and distracting action sequences (something
> Howard Stern complained about.) But I stand firm in my belief that this
> film gave the best portrait of James Bond and the world he inhabits
> than any other film since the series' 1960's heyday.
>
> I'm a huge fan of TND;
Oddly enough, I have totally reappraised TND in light of TWINE.
> I think it is one of the best-executed films of
> the series. What TWINE has over TND, however, is purity of spirit:
> TWINE is chaotic and messy, but has the authentic James Bond flavor;
> TND is efficient and succinct, it's recognizably a 007 movie, but its
> mind is on getting its job done is a quick manner. TWINE takes time
> out for dramatic scenes, and awkwardly drops in uneccessary action
> sequences; TND finds breathing room between its action sequences for a
> little plot exposition.
And yet for all that I found TWINE to be a pretender - a film that wants
to be a Bond film but afraid to commit. All the elements were there, but
no one said 'GO FOR IT!'
> As I said above, my opinion of TWINE is probably colored by relief that
> it didn't suck as badly as it should have, for which all due credit
> should go to Michael Apted for making a silk purse from a sow's ear,
> but as a long-time fan, I also recognize that TWINE is *real* James
> Bond stuff, warts and all.
>
> Best James Bond movie overall since OHMSS;
I'd still take DAF above TWINE. Similar objections for both, but DAF has
the real feel of a Bond film.
> Best performance by an actor as James Bond since "Goldfinger;"
Well, how about THunderball, DAF, or even FYEO. I'd add TLD too.
> Best villain since LTK;
This was a massive let down. In concealing the twist Elecktra is
downplayed, and Renard never really gets going. I didn't find either
mennacing. Neither did Bond. Elecktra gets it with the 9mm, and Renard
gets the Bic refill in the stomach. Where's the death of Oddjob when you
need it?
> Best music since TLD;
I'd rate TND above TWINE. I'd rate GE above TND (the tank chase score by
John Altman was pure Bond).
> Best-dressed James Bond ever;
Grey suits, grey suits and grey suits. It struck me as a colorless and
styleless entry.
> Best look at the inner workings of MI6 (or SIS) since TB;
You didn't find the comparrisons to Casino Royale's Castle MacTavish
difficult?
> I probably could think of more but it's late.
I'm tired, and there's so much more to do.
> I love this movie. But, to get back to the point of this thread, I
> undertand Howard Stern's viewpoint. Eon needs to tighten things up.
Thanks Paul.
Richard
Kelly Clarke
Say Never Again" is what you get.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Domino6242 <domin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000725213300...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
>
>
>
> >If anything I think you just have to give credit to Brosnan for TRYING
> >to make a deeper, more sophisticated Bond film. Unfortunately EON does
> >not hire writers or directors who are up to this task...they are too
> >friggin' cheap (others might say greedy).
>
> Its a shame that EON won't put out the money for better writers or even
> recognize they could use better writers to do the Bond films.
>
> While I don't think they should end the Bond series, I do believe a
cabinet
> shake up at EON is in order, starting with the writers or maybe the
Broccolis
> themselves.
>
> Thats a long shot and would never happen but I wonder what would happen if
> someone other than the Broccolis produced a Bond film. I fear that they've
> lived with the Bond franchise too long and can't see outside the box so to
> speak.
>
> What frustrated me about TWINE as I watched it in the theatre was that it
> contained practically everything we asked for on the ng. Less stunts, more
> story, better characterizations. While we got them, the movie still wasn't
up
> to scratch in my opinion and I believe that most of that has to do with
the
> writing and the directing.
>
> Cheers--
>
> Lanaia
David Duerr
>shake up at EON is in order, starting with the writers or maybe the Broccolis
>themselves.
>
>Thats a long shot and would never happen but I wonder what would happen
>if
>someone other than the Broccolis produced a Bond film.
Been there. What happened was Never Say Never Again. Be careful of what you
wish for. You might get it.
Dave
Houston, Texas
Mac
| Tom Zielinski wrote:
|
| > Am at a sales meeting and will respond in kind this week...
|
| See the quota. Be the quota. Make the quota.
ABC. A-always B-be C-closing. Always be closing.
--
-- Mac
"It is 22 seconds, Henry. In 22 seconds I could
break your f**king spine! In 22 seconds I could
pinch your head off like a f**king insect and
spill it all over the f**king pavement. In 22
seconds I could put 22 bullets in your ridiculous
gut. What I seem unable to do in 22 seconds is
to keep you from f**king up my FILM!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please remove SPAMLESS to reply.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rhino
wrote:
>Richard Ashton <ash...@home.com> wrote in message
>
>| Tom Zielinski wrote:
>|
>| > Am at a sales meeting and will respond in kind this week...
>|
>| See the quota. Be the quota. Make the quota.
>
>ABC. A-always B-be C-closing. Always be closing.
Never Assume
It makes an ASS out of U and ME
(Fecking customer care courses!!)
Hpinkle
>of the Bond films expect the outlandish style of Austin Powers, and are
>disappointed when some nehru-jacketed megalomaniac in a hollowed-out volcano
>with a Mojo theft-machine is nowhere to be seen.
Tom don't you think these fans are looking for sexy *glamour* and excitement
and are getting lame puns and bad stunts. I would argue that they don't
neccessarily want "outlandish," but they do expect something out of the
ordinary...MI:2 seemed to deliver this.
>These casual fans can
>have
>no appreciation of some of the nuance of this film such as the interplay
>between Bond and M, a reference to Bond's tragic marriage, Bernard Lee,
>Q's
>aging, among several others.
I didn't get the "I've always taught you two things" line by Q either, it
seemes like part of a longer scene that was truncated. And I missed the
portrait of M completely...when I went back to look at it on a friend's DVD the
portrait was never in focus, and always in the background. Hard to tell it was
M!
I appreciate the verbal interplay with Bond but I wish it was better written
and directed.
Hpinkle
>statement that I though AP2 was more Bondish than TWINE, and although
>directly spoofing Bond, AP2 had more of a genuine Bond feel to it.
I missed your other post but agree with this statement. The scene on the beach
with Mike Myers wearing Ursula Andress's bikini seemed more like Bond than
TWINE :)
John Doherty
Not being overly familiar with his style as a 'mike hugger' I don't think he
was expressing an opinion. Most likely he was talking for the sake of
talking...
--
Regards,
JD
"Don't touch that! It's my lunch!"
Remove 'no-canned-meat' to reply to me.
RVerbit
__________
Well, the only thing that salvaged it was that David Arnold (the only existing
member who really knows what he's talking about, as made evident on the TWINE
DVD track) wrote an incredible score for mediocre scenes -- especially the
terrible action.
People who couldn't see through his incredible score are the ones who liked it.
(Hint: try watching the action scenes on mute.)
So what's the missing factor?
A certain writer...
RVerbit
The intake of TWINE only reflects what people thought of TND -- the intake of
THE NEXT Bond will reflect TWINE.
RVerbit
-- it had fewer action sequences than other Bonds -- they were just more trite,
and so people (most everyone) noticed this.
R
and...@my-deja.com
keep going back to watching these films time and time again. if he
didn't like the film he could have simply taken it back. besides he
ISN'T one to talk (as his film was crap) and his opinion does not carry
any weight with anyone strong-minded enough to have their own thoughts
on TWINE. i personally loved it, and that's all that matters. howard
stern? get a haircut you gippo
In article <%Spf5.563$Fo1.199647@elnws01>,
"Paul Baack" <ba...@hmss.com> wrote:
> I want to reiterate the point I made yesterday, because I think it's
germane
> to this thread. Howard Stern's taste in pop culture runs along the
lines of
> a *smart,* *perceptive,* twelve-year-old. He makes no bones about
his love
<etc etc>
Tom Zielinski
Tom Zielinski
Lake In The Hills, IL USA
"Life is Funny, But I'm Not Laughing..."
PaperBill007 wrote in message
<20000725211415...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
Holvbphoto
callte...@webtv.net (Terry Hine) writes:
>
>And as we all know, Howard Stern has a reputation for good taste.
>
Hey I like naked women too, but Stein makes me almost ashamed of that fact!
Vince
Check out the Super-Hard Show Biz Quiz (Special James Bond Section) at...
http://www.holvbphoto.com
Holvbphoto
<krcl...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> Howard Sterns a prick anyway. I wouldn't believe any of the crap he
>dishes out. His movie wasn't exactly a work of Art. "Private Parts" stunk.
NOW NOW Kelly Howard is not a prick, hes just the world's biggest ASSHOLE!
BTW did any here know about the time Stein was going to run for Governor of New
York? Its true..... , than if he won he was going to turn over the office to
someone ease (name escapes me), crazy no?, what would have been the point?
Holvbphoto
(Supra320HP) writes:
>
>I can't believe how bad of a rap this movie is getting. With more bad
>reviews
>and opinions like the one Stern gave, the next Bond movie is going to have to
>be pretty spectacular to beat TWINE's rap. You know, maybe its time to think
>about ending the run - I hate to even think about it, but think about what
>will
>happen if the next one is just as bad, or even worse than TWINE.
What is with you people TWINE was a good film, the only problem I had was
with RENALD or what ever his name was made me sick.
Kelly Clarke
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Holvbphoto <holvb...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20000728221736...@nso-fk.news.cs.com...
> In article <8lhmiu$gll$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, "Kelly Clarke"
> <krcl...@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >
> > Howard Sterns a prick anyway. I wouldn't believe any of the crap he
> >dishes out. His movie wasn't exactly a work of Art. "Private Parts"
stunk.
>
> NOW NOW Kelly Howard is not a prick, hes just the world's biggest
ASSHOLE!
>
> BTW did any here know about the time Stein was going to run for Governor
of New
> York? Its true..... , than if he won he was going to turn over the
office to
> someone ease (name escapes me), crazy no?, what would have been the point?
Neil Sullivan
>And I missed the
>portrait of M completely...when I went back to look at it on a friend's DVD
the
>portrait was never in focus, and always in the background. Hard to tell it
was
>M!
Well it was very clearly him at the cinema. The small screen loses so much
detail...
Neil.
--
E-mail: pros...@nildram.co.uk
Web site: http://www.prospero.nildram.co.uk/