JFK JR SEA BURIAL CONTROVERSY
Dr. Jai Maharaj
sea if requested by family: Pentagon
Agence France-Presse
July 20, 1999
WASHINGTON, July 20, 1999 (AFP) - The US Navy is
prepared to perform a burial at sea for John F. Kennedy
Jr. if requested by his family, a Pentagon spokesman
said Wednesday. "Should the family decide on a burial
at sea, we will be prepared to assist," said Bryan
Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman.
Whitman would not say whether such a request has been
made by the Kennedy family, saying it was up to them to
announce the funeral arrangements.
The destroyer USS Briscoe was off the east coast
conducting training and could be used for a burial at
sea, he said.
Kennedy, the only son of assassinated President John F.
Kennedy, was killed with his wife and sister-in-law
when his light plane crashed off Martha's Vineyard late
Friday.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for
the educational purposes of research and open
discussion.
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Why a burial at sea? Is there a cover-up?
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:38:32 PDT by Jai
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- To: Jai
Are you going to get the same offer? What about any of
you Navy Veterans,would they honor your request to be
buried at sea?
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:45:06 PDT by lazlo bones
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- To: Jai
He's already buried at sea.
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:48:12 PDT by wiking
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- To: lazlo bones
As the son of an assassinated president, as a man who
was kind to others and told the truth about his family
and the current scumbag in office, yes, let him rest in
peace at sea.
He's dead, move on and hate someone else.
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:53:45 PDT by Hillary's Lovely Legs
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- To: wiking
Let's spend millions to bring him to the surface and
before a medical examiner can do an autopsy wrap him
back up and bury him again.
Am I the only one who sees something rotten in Denmark
here?
Imagine having a whole ship on standby just for the
whims of one family. Talk about priveledged. Nevermind,
the Air Force has about the same amount of manpower and
resources on standby in case sillary wants to go to
N.Y. or in case slick wants another west coast haircut.
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:53:50 PDT by SSgt Mike
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- To: Jai
You'll have the answer to that one when you find out
whether or not there will be an autopsy.
As I understand it, the Coast Guard and NTSB are
already making plans to turn over the remains to Ted
and the family for burial at sea on Friday.
Doesn't sound like they are planning an autopsy, does
it.
Posted on 7/21/1999 17:55:41 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
Why does a person wish to be buried at sea? I don't
understand this?
Someone mentioned about a person having been in the
"Navy" wishing to be buried at sea. Why? I would think
that the wish of one having been at sea, would want as
there formost aim,.......to be 'on the sea' and not in
it.
Do you see my point? To 'conquer' the sea, and not to
be vanquisted by it.
Could someone please explain?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:01:05 PDT by wake up america
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
I beleive that I heard that an autopsy was mandatory in
this type accident.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:01:32 PDT by luigi
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- To: Hillary's Lovely Legs
"let him rest in peace at sea."
No, give Lazo an answer, does he deserve a NAVY, a US
NAVY burial at sea, forget the matter of who he is, is
he a Navy Vet, a demigod?
Clarify yourself, What makes him that special for
this??
I honestly want to hear this, sorry I don't think you
can defend it.
I'm sorry that JJ died, so toss some flowers and light
those candles, but don't give me that deserves crap. He
is deserving of NOTHING. Period.
rt
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:02:27 PDT by rt1
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- To: ALL
CNN has confirmed at 9pm est that all three are going
to be "buried" at sea at 9am Thurday (tomorrow). That
means they're going to do the autopsy AND creamate all
three and have them ready to be blown into the sea wind
in 12 hours?? Whats up with that? I am no conspiracy
nut, but the speed of this will certainly raise some
eyebrows, dont you think?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:05:34 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: SSgt Mike & Hillary's Lovely Legs
One the one hand, I agree with HLL, JFK Jr. was not a
total jerk for a Kennedy. Given the choice he would
have probably voted to be born into a different family.
Lacking the choice, he didn't turn out too badly.
He was an idiot for taking off in that weather, but
lots of novice pilots are idiots (or so I hear).
On the other hand, Ssgt. Mike has a point. There were a
lot of resources expended in finding his remains.
Obviously after three days in the water there is no way
he would be fit to be viewed so it would be closed
casket regardless.
Why then, the sudden "burial at sea" option.
Something stinks here.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:05:59 PDT by Ronin
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- To: luigi
You would think so. However, I'll bet one is not
performed and the reason will be:
"An autopsy would not have detected anything because
the bodies were in salt water too long to do any valid
analysis of blood or body fluids."
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:07:33 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
John King of CNN just reported that the burial at sea
will take place tomorrow (7-22-99) @ 9:00 am est. if
the body is released by authorities.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:08:19 PDT by hole_n_one
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
From what I gathered they are even now performing an
autopsy. He is to be buried at sea in a few days. The
Navy said they are honoring the request (normally
reserved for Navy Veterans) on the basis of his
"lifetime service to our nation."
Excuse me, but since when is operating a for-profit
business considered service to the nation? JFK jr lived
for himself. He had a famous dad, but does anyone
believe LBJ, Carter, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or Bush kids
would be afforded the same priviledge?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:08:20 PDT by weston
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"An autopsy would not have detected anything because
the bodies were in salt water too long to do any valid
analysis of blood or body fluids."
I too was wondering when this response would be used.
However, and I sense you would agree, such a statement
is absurd. If they can exhume bodies years after death
and test for assorted things, if they can match DNA
from a piece of an eyelash, if they can tell your drug
history from a piece of hair, I am CERTAIN that a
little salt water for 3 days isn't going to disrupt
their investigation, as short as it might be.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:10:25 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: wake up america
As I understand it, this was a "family" decision and
was not JFK, Jr.'s desire in his last will and
testament.
My guess is that for some reason they want to get
control over the body as quickly as possible and what
happens to it for some reason---perhaps to prevent an
autopsy.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:10:26 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: All
I've known several families who scattered the ashes of
their deceased loved ones over water...but they handled
it THEMSELVES, without benefit of the US Navy. Maybe
I'm dumb, but I just don't get why the US Navy needs to
be involved in this.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:11:28 PDT by N.D.Pendence
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- To: hole_n_one
Buried tomorrow? Sorry I hadn't heard that. Seems
pretty quick. Guess they want to get it over before the
really big show (memorial service) on Friday.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:11:29 PDT by weston
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- To: N.D.Pendence
"I've known several families who scattered the ashes of
their deceased loved ones over water...but they handled
it THEMSELVES, without benefit of the US Navy. Maybe
I'm dumb, but I just don't get why the US Navy needs to
be involved in this."
Will Teddy's friends in the ACLU be on board for the
service to make sure no reference to God is made aboard
property belonging to the government?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:14:19 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: wiking
He's already buried at sea.
I agree. This is disgusting and shameless.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:15:06 PDT by eskimo
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- To: weston
If they are performing an autopsy, you have heard news
that I haven't. The latest I've heard is that he's to
be cremated and buried at sea tomorrow, not Friday.
There's an awful lot of conflicting stories being fed
to the media.
I did hear an interview with the head honcho for the
NTSB who said that there would be no investigation of
the crash or results released until after the burial. I
couldn't believe that I had heard him correctly. Maybe
I didn't.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:16:05 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: eskimo
I agree. This is disgusting and shameless.
Lighten up Frances.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:16:23 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: ClintonBeGone
It would certainly raise some eyebrows if the media
weren't the fawning corrupted institution that it is.
Of course, this stinks. "Autopsy" will be done in
Mass., under complete control of Kennedy family, and
will find no drugs/alcohol or inconclusive or the test
will be screwed up. Then cremation for the bodies. No
investigation possible-- ever. But who cares? Lies are
acceptable- look what happend in Clinton's impeachment
trial. It's the truth we must be protected from.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:17:35 PDT by spincut
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- To: ClintonBeGone
"CNN has confirmed at 9pm est that all three are going
to be "buried" at sea at 9am Thurday (tomorrow). That
means they're going to do the autopsy AND creamate all
three and have them ready to be blown into the sea wind
in 12 hours?? "
When I read the above to a bunch of people just now,
this cry was the first reaction heard, "Oh my God! JFK
Jr. must have bullet holes, or else all three were
poisoned!"
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:18:06 PDT by Jai
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- To: ClintonBeGone
Of course I agree that an autopsy should be performed.
In order to avoid the kind of speculation that you are
seeing here, I am convinced that they will conduct an
instant autopsy tonight and cremate the remains. In a
few days they will release that the results of the lab
tests for alcohol, drugs, etc were inconclusive due to
the long time the bodies were in the water, etc.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:19:25 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: spincut
It would certainly raise some eyebrows if the media
weren't the fawning corrupted institution that it is.
Of course, this stinks. "Autopsy" will be done in
Mass., under complete control of Kennedy family, and
will find no drugs/alcohol or inconclusive or the test
will be screwed up.
I wonder what gives Mass jurisdiction over this
autopsy? It looks to me like the crash happened closer
to Connecticut or Rhode Island. Whats up with that?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:19:55 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: spincut
"But who cares?"
Best statement so far!
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:21:45 PDT by weston
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
In a few days they will release that the results of the
lab tests for alcohol, drugs, etc were inconclusive due
to the long time the bodies were in the water, etc.
Would you believe that statement?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:22:22 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"An autopsy would not have detected anything because
the bodies were in salt water too long to do any valid
analysis of blood or body fluids."
You put this in quotation marks, so I presume it came
from somewhere.
Your source is partially incorrect. As an embalmer in
my younger days, we always embalmed bodies prior to
autopsies, but we never aspirated the vital organs. In
English, that means the blood was removed and replaced
with embalming fluids, but the intestines, heart,
liver, kidneys, etc. were not evacuated with a trocar,
as is typically done. Blood is not analyzed and is
never important in an autopsy, but the inner organs
are, especially if there was a coronary incident.
In a warm water drowning, the bacteria in the lower
cavities were thriving so the inner organs can tell a
medical examiner a story. In salt water, I can't say
since we never encountered that in Ft. Worth, Texas.
I suspect that a medical examiner will at least be able
to tell the cause of death, though the exact time of
death won't be evident.
The bodies were probably mangled, but will be in fairly
good condition given the salt water and cold water
temperatures. There could have been some degradation
due to marine life, but probably not much.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:25:30 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: weston
My understanding is that the memorial service on Friday
is private....no T.V.
Larry King says CNN will "cover" the burial @ 9:00 am
tomorrow......I suspect they (the media) will be left
at shore.
While seeing Katie Curic camping outside the Kennedy
compound, one has to wonder if she would have
appreciated the same type of irreverent treatment
thrown her way when her husband (Jay Monohan) recently
died.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:27:29 PDT by hole_n_one
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- To: ClintonBeGone
"CNN has confirmed at 9pm est that all three are going
to be "buried" at sea at 9am Thurday (tomorrow). That
means they're going to do the autopsy AND creamate all
three and have them ready to be blown into the sea wind
in 12 hours?? Whats up with that? I am no conspiracy
nut, but the speed of this will certainly raise some
eyebrows, dont you think?
Since when does it take a Navy destroyer to spread
ashes?
I don't know but I would be willing to bet that the
Kennedy family has at least one boat big enough to
accomplish the same job that would cost the taxpayers
absolutely nothing except for Der Slickmeisters and
Brun Sillarys travel costs for the event.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:27:37 PDT by SSgt Mike
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- To: res ipsa loquitur, weston
"- To: weston
If they are performing an autopsy, you have heard news
that I haven't . . ."
A news item about autopsies
Bodies Recovered Off Martha's Vineyard
The Associated Press
Wednesday, July 21, 1999; 9:00 p.m. EDT
AQUINNAH, Mass. (AP) -- The bodies of John F. Kennedy
Jr., his wife and sister-in-law were brought to shore
this evening after they were found amid the wreckage of
Kennedy's plane off Martha's Vineyard. The three bodies
were taken to the medical examiner's office for
autopsies. A family source said a burial at sea for JFK
Jr. was likely, and broadcast reports said the Navy had
granted the family's requests for such a ceremony.
Kennedy was piloting his plane Friday night with his
wife, Carolyn, and her sister Lauren Bessette, when it
dropped from radar 16 1/2 miles from Martha's Vineyard
Airport.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for
the educational purposes of research and open
discussion.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:28:43 PDT by Jai
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- To: lazlo bones
Retired Navy veterans will be buried at sea if and only
if their written request to be so buried is on file
with the Navy Dept. before their death. Bertram3 USN
(retired)
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:28:49 PDT by Bertram3
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- To: Jai
More than likely the bodies were in pretty bad shape
after being in the water (with the fishes) for so long.
I think a burial at sea makes sense. The poor guy was
never given any privacy during his life and, judging by
the flowers-makeshift alters, etc. etc. he will not be
accorded much privacy after his death. A burial a sea
will eliminate that.
That said, why does the navy have to get involved. The
Kennedy's have been going sailing for the past few days
on a rather nice sailboat....The only thing I can think
of is that Bubba wants to officiate and it's the only
way he can get involved.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:29:21 PDT by McGavin999
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
And if they do an autopsy, do you think we will ever
see it?...And who the hell is paying for all this?....
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:31:35 PDT by silky
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- To: Jai
Just had this discussion with my wife.
Very sorry to hear of his death. But...What did this
man do in his lifetime to deserve this godlike status.
Let's see:
1. He was a cute little kid that saluted his father's
casket. That was cool and he gets an "A" for that.
2. He failed his first Bar exam even though he was rich
enough to go to the best schools and have the best
teachers. Not a good grade there as he was obviously
not interested in studies.
3. He was editor of a new magazine on politics, not an
original topic for that family or a stretch for that
family to come up with a enough money/connections for
him to start at the top as editor of a magazine. I
doubt that many of us ordinary people, aside from
algore could have handled it.
4. He married someone that looked as good as him. Good
Taste.
5. You fill in the blanks as I did not watch the 5 day
vigil of the Atlantic waiting for this hero to swim
ashore with his passengers under each arm, and don't
know of his true greatness.
All I know is the Democrats and media want you to
believe he, his family, the party are the best thing
for you, the nation and NWO.
Well Jerry Springer I just don't believe you're little
soap opera.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:32:19 PDT by Hang'emAll
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- To: McGavin999
With the Arlington leaks, I think the Clinton
administration was pushing pretty hard for a public
burial ceremony on land, with plenty of photo ops. I
think the Kennedy family is dissing Clinton.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:34:23 PDT by aristeides
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- To: SSgt Mike
Are they not going to do an autopsy? Do you have a
source? Thanks.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:34:28 PDT by vmatt
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- To: Jai
It's possible that this is Carolyn Kennedy's decision
and the grieving Bessett family is going along. She is
staying aloof in her New York home, rather than joining
the "Family" in Massachusetts. She had not planned to
attend her cousin's wedding and apparently John Jr. had
tried to go as family representative.
Clinton and others had tried to horn in and make great
photo-ops of this tragedy. Carolyn learned from her
mother not to be used by the Kennedys, IMO. But an
autopsy should be done on all, if possible, to stop
conspiracy ideas and baseless slanders.
Bwana's wife
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:35:23 PDT by BigBwana
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- To: Jai
"CNN has confirmed at 9pm est that all three are going
to be "buried" at sea at 9am Thurday (tomorrow). That
means they're going to do the autopsy AND creamate all
three and have them ready to be blown into the sea wind
in 12 hours?? "
What I would like to know is what the Bissett (sp?)
family has to say about this decision. Was it made
totally by the Kennedy clan or was there any other
input into this matter? Last time I checked the ratio
was 2 to 1 for family tragedy.
I am happy that the media has not been able to horn
into the families and splash the tragedt from the
inside. Just wait though next month BaBa WaWas will
have a special with Uncle Ted about is feelings of
loss.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:35:23 PDT by SSgt Mike
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- To: sinkspur
"---we always embalmed bodies prior to autopsies---
Blood is not analyzed and is never important in an
autopsy, but the inner organs are, especially if there
was a coronary incident."
I have no source to quote, but did read a comment in
the newpaper this weekend to the effect, that if the
bodies were not recovered soon, an autopsy would reveal
little as to whether JFK,Jr. was under the influence of
drugs.
I did just hear a news report on the radio that the
bodies were at the medical examiners offices on Cape
Cod, Mass. Is Massachusetts where jurisdiction lies for
autopsies under NTSB jurisdiction?
As to your comments, I find it interesting that "Blood
is not analyzed and is never important in an autopsy".
How else do they determine intoxication for alcohol or
drugs? If the blood is drained and the body embalmed
before the autopsy, is there any other way to determine
whether he may have been under the influence? Just
curious.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:37:43 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: McGavin999
More than likely the bodies were in pretty bad shape
after being in the water (with the fishes) for so long.
This may be so for salt water; I don't know. In warm
water lake deaths in which the body had been submerged
for three days, there was little marine degradation. I
was told it was because, frankly, humans are not a
natural source. Of course, had these three not been
entrapped in an airplane fuselage, the natural bacteria
would cause tissue gas, which ordinarily equalizes the
external water pressure over time (typically three or
four days) and the body floats to the surface.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:40:21 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: Jai
Thanks, just heard same on radio. Just for my
curiousity, where does jurisdiction lie for autopsies
that occur at sea in a civil air accident under the
jurisdicition of the NTSB? Do local ME's normally do
the autopsy?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:41:13 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: SSgt Mike
Old Teddy is proof of the curse. I believe the curse
stated all the best and the brightest. That explains
why old Teddy is still with us. :-)
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:41:47 PDT by McGavin999
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- To: vmatt
I was just stating that I would not be suprised if the
bodies were taken care of without an autopsy.
You cannot deny that stranger things have not happened
when you have the clintoons or the kennedy's involved.
At this point nothing is beyond belief.
I am actually suprised to find out that there might be
an autopsy after all. I will believe it when I hear the
results for myself.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:42:50 PDT by SSgt Mike
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"If the blood is drained and the body embalmed before
the autopsy, is there any other way to determine
whether he may have been under the influence? Just
curious."
I think they check the organs, i.e., liver. For example
if Ted met an untimely demise they would wring out the
liver much like a sponge and determine the amount of
alcohol vs overall liver mass.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:43:23 PDT by briant
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- To: briant
I guess that "i.e." should be "e.g."
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:44:11 PDT by briant
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"How else do they determine intoxication for alcohol or
drugs?"
The liver, my man. The liver. It is the junkyard of the
body. Drugs, alcohol, nicotine, cholesterol--all the
nasty stuff is right there and the M.E. can tell, based
on the consistency of the organ, whether or not the
person was an alcoholic, a chronic drug user, a chain
smoker.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:45:27 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: silky
Your question lurks in the back of my mind also. It is
why I have been questioning why a small town Cape Cod,
Massachussets medical examiner would be conducting the
autopsy when this is under the NTSB's jurisdiction.
Something is ringing in the back of my head about local
justice for the Kennedy's involving a certain car
running off a bridge 30 years ago. Seems strange. Does
anybody know who has jurisdiction over an NTSB autopsy
from an air accident at sea?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:46:11 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: spincut
Right, the sheeple's don't want to wake up from their
cozy warm "cocoons".
I'm thinking poor old Joe six-pack just got a few packs
lighter in the heirarchy of our country.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:48:03 PDT by harpo11
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- To: Jai
Planning to call up tomorrow and cancel my life
insurance. Since the feds will now handle funeral
arrangements for whatever the survivors want, why
should I pay my own way. I saw another thread about how
much all this search and rescue cost, but I have
already had a hard day, so I did not click on it.
Why a burial at sea, anyway? As far as I know he was
not connected with the US Navy.
Yesterday at the end of a meeting, I asked if Michael
Reagan would get the same 24x7 news and someone said
"Who is Michael Reagen".
One other thing, we ALSO had a great American hero die
and be buried over the weekend and he was barely
mentioned. Oh well, that's life in the nineties.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:48:12 PDT by powell
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- To: sinkspur
But, if not a chronic user or abuser, would the liver
tell the blood alcohol level at death?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:48:37 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: Jai
A burial at sea? Too strange. There is something
decidedly wrong with this picture. Why that, as opposed
to a closed casket? Taking notes, some interesting
patterns emerge-- forming several distinct strains of
possibilities.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:49:40 PDT by metalbird1
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- To: powell
"Yesterday at the end of a meeting, I asked if Michael
Reagan would get the same 24x7 news and someone said
'Who is Michael Reagen'."
Why use hypotheticals, everyone can remember the
coverage of people killed by avalanches at mountain
sites or climbers who fall off a cliff.
The media says: "Today, 30 people were covered by snow
today in what was perhaps the biggest avalanche in
history. Searchers will be looking for them throughout
the night. Now for basketball scores...
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:56:13 PDT by Hang'emAll
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- To: sinkspur
Egad!!
I feel like I am carrying around my own personal toxic
waste dump.
Maybe I should get a biohazard sign tattooed on my back
to warn the poor ME who has to open me up after I
croak.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:56:15 PDT by Ronin
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"It is why I have been questioning why a small town
Cape Cod, Massachussets medical examiner would be
conducting the autopsy when this is under the NTSB's
jurisdiction."
There is no Federal Medical Examiner. Determination of
the cause of death is under state and county
jursidiction. And that county prerogative extends out
to international waters (sorry, I don't know how many
miles out that goes). Remember TWA 800? The Long Island
County M.E. had the jurisdiction.
The county M.E. has final jurisdiction unless he
extends it to someone else. When the Davidians were
incinerated in Waco, the McLennnan County M.E. extended
his jurisdiction to Tarrant County (Ft. Worth,Tx)
because the M.E. here, Nizam Peerwani, has a facility
that could handle 80 individual cases. Peerwani had
also been involved in two airline disasters and the
McLennan M.E. had never handled more than a double
homicide. Lawsuit protection, if you will.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:56:41 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: Jai
please...... , can't we afford another american the
peace and dignity of thinking before we say things that
to us ourselves hate in so many others. jfk jr. was a
good and i beleive honorable man. if for nothing else,
bringing the country together as a decent group of
humanity greiving for another person should be our
goal. some are probably correct, you and i as a
ordinary people, wouldn't get the attention. well, i
hate to tell you this, we are ordinary. i am a navy
wife of twenty two years. i don't mind if he is buried
at sea. i would be a very happy person if my children
and my childrens children all are blessed with the
dignity and love of life this young man had. even if
one doesn't beleive he deserves being honored by our
country, i tell you this, politics set aside, his
father earned it for him as an american war hero. maybe
not for some, but for me, i want to be a part of the
people who grieve for one of america's young people. i
am not a democrat, just a hopeful american
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:56:50 PDT by aged
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- To: Jai
Am I wrong, or don't Catholics consider it a sin to be
cremated?
The Kennedys ARE Catholic, aren't they?
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:57:10 PDT by Siouxz
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- To: weston
"his 'lifetime service to our nation.'"
I was just sitting here reading people's thoughts until
you came up with that. That is sickening. I don't care
where he is buried (as long as it's not in my yard) but
he has never performed any service to our nation.
(Wonder if larry flynt will get the same honors ?).
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:57:10 PDT by powell
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- To: Jai
We spend millions of dollars of taxpayer's money to
fish these people out of the ocean and what do we do?
We spend millions of dollars to throw them back into
the ocean. God I love this country.
Posted on 7/21/1999 18:58:33 PDT by HEFFERNAN4
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- To: sinkspur
Thanks, it just seemed a little too cozy for a Kennedy
to be examined in Massachusetts. Maybe I have memories
of the days, weeks and months after Chappaquiddick 30
years ago that make me wonder just how thorough the
examination will be; (and, if negative for
intoxication, would we ever be told)?
When you combine this with reports that he will be
cremated (the NY Archbishop has approved) and buried at
sea tomorrow, makes me wonder if there is a possible
cover up underway.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:03:55 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: Siouxz
"The Kennedys ARE Catholic, aren't they?"
At least "holic", in part, suits one or more of the family.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:04:31 PDT by Jai
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
"But, if not a chronic user or abuser, would the liver
tell the blood alcohol level at death?"
When I was doing funeral work, I used to work with a
nationally recognized M.E., Dr. Feliks Gwozdz. Feliks
still had Matthausen Death Camp numbers on his wrist
from his three years in a Nazi Concentration Camp. He
always said "What I am doing now is nothing compared to
what I have seen." Anyway, Feliks could take a liver
slice and estimate whether the person had had one drink
or five. The differential, he would say, was dependent
on how many beers the guy had in the half-hour before
he ran his car into the bridge abutment.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:04:42 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: BigBwana
I bet these Kennedy children had all they wanted of
seeing the public go past their dad's grave. You know
they could not even visit their dad and mom's graves
without making it very public. Because of this I think
maybe they had told each other they would like some
peace at death. I am just guessing but seeing how many
people go to see where Diana is buried the same could
happen to John and Carolyn.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:04:53 PDT by Faith-Hope
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- To: briant
"determine the amount of alcohol vs overall liver mass."
On Ted, that figure would hover pretty near 100%.
(couldn't resist).
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:06:39 PDT by powell
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- To: Siouxz
"The Kennedys ARE Catholic, aren't they?"
I am not sure. . let me ask those millions of unborn
babies the Kennedy's helped to their death by their
goulish devotion to abortion, abortion clinics and
abortion doctors.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:06:51 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: HEFFERNAN4
Are the Kennedys really going to get away with this? I
mean taking their estranged relative who they resent
for criticizing them, and making him the only Kennedy
they have ever scattered to the winds. They are doing
this because they resent him, and to deny him future
public attention at a grave site.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:08:15 PDT by williams
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- To: powell
Burial at sea doesn't necessarily imply cremation. I
believe sometimes it's done using a lead casket.
That being said, considering the guy is leaving behind
an estate valued at approximately $50 million, I
believe the family could afford to handle it without
the Navy getting involved.
Yes, he was a nice guy, and yes, the family has my
sincerest sympathy. But enough is enough.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:09:06 PDT by Amelia
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- To: HEFFERNAN4
"We spend millions of dollars . . . to fish these
people out . . . We spend millions of dollars to throw
them back into the ocean. "
Queasy come, queasy go.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:11:04 PDT by Jai
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- To: res ipsa loquitur
Massachusetts requires cremation for a burial at sea.
If you'll bear with me, cremains can be chunks (with
some bone fragments) or powder (literally). Typically,
if the crematorium is told that the cremains are to be
sprinkled somewhere, the oven will remain in operation
twenty minutes longer. The powder will be of the
consistency of salt.
The Roman Catholic Church frowned on cremation in
earlier times as a counter to pagan sects that made
light of the Resurrection of the Body. Pope Paul VI
eased that burden in the seventies in response to some
European countries which had, literally, run out of
burial space.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:14:03 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: Jai
"Queasy come, queasy go."
Queasy in fume may?
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:14:26 PDT by ClintonBeGone
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- To: All
Does anyone remember reading a day ago, about a local
reporter of a paper around Marthas Vineyard, witnessing
a large flash in the sky at the approximate time of the
downing of JFK jr's Plane?
Does anyone remember Bernard Shaw asking the question,
(if the Kennedy plane was secured at the hanger)? As
high profile as this man was, and especially in light
of his wishing to run for Senator. Questions should be
answered.
An exaustive investigation should be done to find the
honest facts.
What ever the true findings are.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:18:40 PDT by wake up america
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- To: Siouxz
"don't Catholics consider it a sin to be cremated?"
Perhaps JFK Jr. became a Hindu when he lived in India
JFK JUNIOR'S 60 QUIET DAYS IN PAHARGANJ
By Vinay Tewari
The Times of India
Tuesday, July 20, 1999
New Delhi - John F Kennedy Jr, who disappeared into the
deep blues in his light plane off Martha's Vineyard in
the US over the weekend, had spent 60 quiet days in
anonymity in the dingy bylanes of Delhi's Paharganj in
1982, holed up in a hotel without a phone - unshaven,
unwashed and clad in a pair of battered jeans.
But what brought the son of America's most loved
President here? What made him scour the little lanes
and bylanes around Lodhi Colony, Parliament Street and
Connaught Place with just Rs 150 in his pocket to see
through a day?
``He was required to submit a project paper on the
functioning of Indian democracy as part of his
undergraduate studies at Brown University. He wanted
complete anonymity... as he realised he could
experience real Indian vibrancy only by melting in the
crowd,'' says bureaucrat Vishv Bandhu Gupta, who opened
up the world of India for him along with Tony
Jesudasan, then working for the US embassy here.
But that was just his stated objective. JFK Jr had
other ideas. Keen to shake off the regimented lifestyle
of a ``royal'', always under the glare of arc lights,
he forbade the embassy to keep in touch with him. And
insisted he would choose a hotel all by himself. He
did... a non-descript Shivalik Lodge in dingy (by 1983
standards) Paharganj, which does not even exist now in
its original form.
``He seemed to revel in being rebellious. Which
explains his insistence on wearing the same jeans for
weeks, not shaving and keeping his hair long. In fact,
he brought just three sets of clothes with him,''
recalls Mr Gupta.
Which also explains why JFK Jr always travelled in
rickety autorickshaws, making an exception only twice
by travelling in Mr Gupta's old Fiat car. But when
protocol demanded, he couldn't refuse breakfast
invitations from Prime Minister Indira Gandhi and
President Giani Zail Singh - both of which turned out
to be thoroughly eventful.
``He came out of Rashtrapati Bhavan perspiring heavily.
He told me and Jesu, Gianiji took him in a bearhug and
wouldn't leave him for 20 minutes. Perhaps, he
misunderstood the Indian style of being affectionate,''
Mr Gupta says. Later, having greedily imbibed the
intimate details of Indian democracy, he questioned Ms
Gandhi on several embarrassing points - the need to
impose the Emergency, corruption, poverty and the
Punjab problem.
But his freedom was shortlived. His mother - Jacqueline
Kennedy-Onassis - the only person JFK Jr would obey,
was scheduled to arrive in Delhi for her onward journey
to Jaipur to visit Maharani Gayatri Devi. Days later, a
horrified Jacqueline arrived to see her son resembling
a near-alien. The mother in her took over. He was
ordered a thorough wash in the Taj Hotel, asked to don
a suit and forbidden to even look towards Shivalik
Lodge.
He may have grown up for the world. For Jacqueline, he
remained the three-year-old boy who swung his tiny
right arm to salute his father's passing casket. That
was 1963. Now history repeats itself in 1999.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for
the educational purposes of research and open
discussion.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:19:10 PDT by Jai
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- To: All
Just heard on Larry King Live that he'll be cremated
and buried at sea at 9:00 am EDT tomorrow. My question
is: why so soon? Isn't cremation also against the
teachings of the Catholic Church?
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:19:55 PDT by Chad
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- To: Chad
Why so soon? To get rid of the evidence; but don't tell anyone.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:23:16 PDT by briant
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- To: Chad
I have to be honest and say that I have mixed thoughts
and emotions about all of this. I will, however, say
that I wonder if the same would have been done for -
say Tricia Nixon, Maureen Reagan, Susan Ford, etc.---I
mentioned this in another thread, as well.
The coverage - I'm sure would have been over by now---
Just my .02 worth
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:24:24 PDT by MasonGal
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- To: Jai
Someone must say it: There are lots of idiots out
there, most of them can be found here in this threat.
I wonder if some of you realize who stupid you sound.
There is nothing complicated about it , the simple
truth: JFK, Jr., made a bad decision and paid with his
life, is that simple folks.
The conspiracy business already started about this one.
Let me agree with you, there is a conspiracy out
there:The conspiracy of people reaching the same lame
conclusions with room temperature IQ.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:28:46 PDT by ExtraSafe21
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- To: Chad
"The Roman Catholic Church frowned on cremation in
earlier times as a counter to pagan sects that made
light of the Resurrection of the Body. Pope Paul VI
eased that burden in the seventies in response to some
European countries which had, literally, run out of
burial space."
As a Catholic, I did some research on this also. It was
never, technically, a sin for a Catholic to be
cremated; just heavily frowned on and refused by many
priests. Cremation is a mandated burial practice for
some (Indians) and optional for others. It has gained
some currency lately with the scarcity of burial space.
The reason for cremation in this case is Massachusetts
law: no burial at sea without cremation.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:33:23 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: Jai
Liked your '60 Quiet Days' story added to your post.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:39:19 PDT by metalbird1
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- To: sinkspur
"The reason for cremation in this case is Massachusetts
law: no burial at sea without cremation."
Furthermore, even if Massachusetts wasn't involved,
burial at sea without cremation would invite numerous
grave-hunting ghouls to attempt to tamper with and/or
photograph the remains.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:45:22 PDT by starlu
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- To: ExtraSafe21
"The conspiracy of people reaching the same lame
conclusions with room temperature IQ."
No wonder it feels so hot in the room . . . the MENSA
folks were right . . . :-)
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:48:43 PDT by Jai
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- To: wake up america
Sorry it took so long to reply...just turned the
compt'r on for the night and since none have really
answered your questions, I'll give it a try. For
reference your questions were: Why does a person wish
to be buried at sea? I don't understand this? ...a
person having been in the "Navy" wishing to be buried
at sea. Why? I would think that the wish of one having
been at sea, would want as there formost aim,.......to
be 'on the sea' and not in it. Do you see my point? To
'conquer' the sea, and not to be vanquisted by it.
Could someone please explain?
I'm about to retire from the Navy...I've also been
aboard ships where burials at sea were conducted. The
ceremoney is a dignified and noteworthy event. It is
conducted by the ships Chaplain and crewmembers are in
dress-uniform, standing in rank and watching as their
former shipmates (shipmate being a generic term for any
former Navy Sailor) casket is sent over the side. The
ships Navigator plots the location where the casket was
placed in the sea, and the family is given a
certificate noting the latitude and longitude where the
shipmate rests.
As to why...many feel a sense of comfort knowing their
remains will lie to rest with their "shipmates" who
have lost their lives on or under the sea, until the
final days "when the sea shall give up her dead." It's
a very difficult thing to explain to someone who may
not have been exposed to the traditions and ceremonial
functions of the Navy...but it's a good thing for those
deserving of that final honor rendered to a shipmate.
Forgive me if your familiar with this, but, I suggest
any freeper who finds themselves in the area of Pearl
Harbor take the USS Arizona memorial tour, then head
across the street to the Submarine museum...at the sub
museum there are standing plaques to all the subs and
the crews who were sunk...each plaque reads "Still on
patrol." So, the explaination about "to 'conquer' the
sea, and not to be vanquisted by it" is simply: Man
cannot conquer the sea, but the "eternal patrols" that
our departed shipmates are conducting show that God
does not intend for the sea to vanquish us either.
As to the JFK Jr. question... as far as I know, he
wasn't a "shipmate."
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:51:12 PDT by Is Cus'n
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- To: metalbird1
"Liked your '60 Quiet Days' story added to your post. "
You are welcome. I wonder if the western media will
publish the Times of India story about him living as a
hippie in India.
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:52:45 PDT by Jai
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- To: Is Cus'n
I am very thankful that you responded to my post. I had
forgotten about the Bible Verse that states the Sea
will give up her dead. Thank You, very much for taking
the time to explain this all to me. I really appreciate
it!! Thank You
Posted on 7/21/1999 19:59:38 PDT by wake up america
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- To: ClintonBeGone
"That means they're going to do the autopsy AND
creamate all three and have them ready to be blown into
the sea wind in 12 hours?? Whats up with that? I am no
conspiracy nut, but the speed of this will certainly
raise some eyebrows, dont you think?"
I'm not sure that the Bessett family has decided about
what is to be done with their daughters.
However, I agree with you. The speed with which they
are cremating and putting him back out to sea is
troubling. An autopsy and cremation tonight, burial at
sea at 9 in the morning tomorrow. I wasn't seeing
conspiracy in this either; but, I was struck by how
quickly they are "getting rid" of him --- I have to
ask, why.
Who is doing the arrangements. Is it the family at
Hyannis Port? I had thought that Caroline, his sister,
would be making the arrangements.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:04:27 PDT by LibertarianLiz
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- To: wake up america
Your welcome, and thanks for asking the question in the
first place.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:04:50 PDT by Is Cus'n
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- To: Jai
New lobster eaters in Massachusetts are heard
commenting on the unexpected flavor:
"Hmmmm - takes just like Kennedy."
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:08:08 PDT by Feet of Klay
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- To: Siouxz
"Am I wrong, or don't Catholics consider it a sin to be
cremated?"
This question crossed my mind as well. I know that they
don't really approve of cremation; but, not sure if
they consider it a sin.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:10:22 PDT by LibertarianLiz
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- To: All
IMHO .... It sounds to me like this burial at sea
business is going to cost the American people about a
much as a used couch went for at the last Sotheby's
auction of Jackie's estate items ...... read that a
bunch .
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:10:50 PDT by Something_to_think_about
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- To: aged
"i would be a very happy person if my children and my
childrens children all are blessed with the dignity and
love of life this young man had"
Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true.
.. Unless you know him personally, your perception of
John Jr. is based on media coverage. Your husband and
others who serve their country are the heroes. The rest
of us, including John Jr., are "ordinary people". John
Sr.'s heroism was recognized at his funeral.
There is no "hate" being expressed here. What you are
reading is one of the seminal beliefs of Freepers. We
oppose all forms of oppression. That includes giving
anyone royalty status in this free country.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:14:16 PDT by Kennard
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- To: BigBwana
Bingo!
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:19:44 PDT by dr j
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- To: hole_n_one
My understanding is that the memorial service on Friday
is private....no T.V.
You are correct. However, the cameras will be rolling
outside the church. I'm sure we will be inundated with
shots of limos ala the Oscars. Clinton is practicing up
his teary eye routine from the Brown funeral.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:22:02 PDT by weston
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- To: lazlo bones
Oh yes, they will do it. The only problem is you must
wait until a vessel is ready to go to sea before they
will agree to comply with your request. The container
must be able to flood and sink or else as one time in
the media, they have to shoot it full of holes with a
rifle.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:28:15 PDT by spook
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- To: weston
All Bill has to do is to key on the crocodile near-
tears being purveyed by the television media talking
heads.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:33:28 PDT by Kennard
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- To: ClintonBeGone
LOL!!! Kweezy 'n fume eh? For those who don't get it,
that's the head of the NAACP, isn't it? Used to have a
regular name, but changed it in Congress. Rush used to
joke about him a lot!
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:38:58 PDT by Geezerette
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- To: LibertarianLiz
The autopsy will determine the cause of death. They
will be sliced and diced (if necessary) until the M.E.
has enough to determine the cause of death.
If there is some Rivero reason for the accident, it
will be found in the plane infrastructure, not the
bodies of the victims.
Posted on 7/21/1999 20:43:15 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: sinkspur
Fox News reporting tonight that the autopsy results
will be released 30 minutes after the ashes are
scattered at sea.
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:06:57 PDT by Amelia
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- To: Amelia
Actually, a Medical Examiner can look at a body that
has been in a violent incident and get a good idea of
cause of death.
Since he has to sign the Death Certificate, however, he
will be very clinical in his analysis. He will also get
whatever information he can from the NTSB about the
plane before he issues any finding, in case there is
the possibility of suicide.
Determining the cause of death influences Life
Insurance and inheritances and, possibly, criminal or
civil responsiblity. These people do not take this
burden lightly.
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:18:15 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: sinkspur
Hmm, do you really think JFK Jr. could have killed
himself? Or overdosed? Or was shot by somebody behind
the grassy cloud knoll?
I understand your point, and the autopsy is customary,
but won't it say "cause of death: plane crash" or maybe
"drowning?"
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:25:10 PDT by TheFilter
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- To: sinkspur
I would imagine we could all look at what's left of the
plane and get a good idea of the cause of death.
Frankly, the biggest surprise to me has been that they
actually found (apparently) recognizable bodies.
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:28:06 PDT by Amelia
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- To: TheFilter
"I understand your point, and the autopsy is customary,
but won't it say "cause of death: plane crash" or maybe
'drowning?'"
If drowning is the cause of death, the lungs will be
full of water, indicating that water was aspirated as
these young people were fighting for air.
However, if they died of "blunt trauma," (as I
suspect), there will some water in the lungs but there
will be contusions on the head, or the chest, and
broken blood vessels at the point of bodily contact
with the plane's infrastructure.
When you watch these M.E.'s work, you are amazed at how
quickly they go to the area of pathology.
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:40:06 PDT by sinkspur
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- To: all
Just my own 2 cents: First, thank you, sinkspur, for
your lucid, well-written contributions. You cleared up
a lot. To the conspiracy nuts, offer us ONE possible
reason why someone would want JFKjr killed and then
I'll listen. Right now, you guys are screaming
"conspiracy" without anything to back it up other than
the people are dead.
To the "who's going to pay for the burial" folks,
couldn't we give the family a pass on this one? John
Kennedy Jr. was a well-respected, beloved figure in
this country. He attached his name to many charities,
especially Special Olympics. Not forgetting his
family's committment to public service. Politics aside,
his father was president, his uncle a Senator, his
cousins were congressmen, another the lieutenant
governor of Maryland, his great-grandfather the mayor
of Boston. I honestly have no problem with the
government funding a burial at sea. I'd even have been
cool with is being buried next to his parents at
Arlington.
But if it's money you're worried about, I'm sure the
inheritance taxes on his $50 million estate will more
than cover it.
Posted on 7/21/1999 21:48:21 PDT by itsjeff
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- To: Jai
Reports are that all three are going to be buried at
sea and given memorial, rather than funeral, services.
This seems very odd to me, given the Catholic faith of
the victims.
Perhaps we will learn that this was Kennedy Jr.'s
burial wish. Why the Bessettes would want this kind of
funeral arrangement is something of a mystery; it is
certainly unusual.
Count your blessings, folks.
Posted on 7/21/1999 23:43:01 PDT by Fulbright
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- To: lazlo bones
Burial at Sea How to request.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/questions/burial.html
Burial at Sea rules, eligibility, etc.
http://www.bupers.navy.mil/codes/pers6/pers62/pers622/presentation1/sld017.
htm"
Posted on 7/22/1999 04:08:44 PDT by Marcus Welby
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- To: sinkspur
Thanks for the information. Just wanted to make sure
that it was possible to detect if JFK, Jr. had been
intoxicated on drugs like alcohol, etc or if he was on
prescription meds which could have impaired his ability
to operate the plane.
As for the cremation, I understand that the Catholic
Church eased its ban, but I still heard a report that
the family had asked the AB NY for his approval.
Posted on 7/22/1999 08:59:23 PDT by res ipsa loquitur
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- To: Jai
I was in the Navy. We went to sea three times with the
ashes of men who servered for our contry. Can someone
tell me what this spoiled little rich boy for this
country except give us a worthless publication. Knowing
Clinton he will call for a special deployment. Some
family will be missing dad at the dinner table for a
week.
Posted on 7/22/1999 09:07:42 PDT by bmwcyle
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- To: sinkspur
I appreciated reading your professional embalmer
comments. I assumed that even a cursory autopsy would
be able to tell whether or not the victims died from
drowning or trauma. Also, I was curious, that in all
these many hours of coverage, there was no discussion
or graphic about what happens to a human body in this
kind of collision. Would it have even been possible for
a body to remain all in one piece? The talking heads
skirted any subject that might be squeamish, and now
MSNBC is reporting the autopsy said, "they all died
instantly." That's that?
The NTSB lied so blatantly about the time they found
the wreckage, I'm skeptical whether or not they
actually found 8 feet of the fuselage intact. The
obvious implication of that deception would be to keep
from the public that the bodies were horribly
mutilated. The media is bending over so far backwards
to be respectful of their Kennedy icons, I don't think
they are doing their job.
Was I the only one who only saw two coffins being moved
from the boat to the 2 white vans? Maybe I missed the
third, but at the time, I wondered if they had put male
body parts in one coffin, and all others in one.
And while I'm on this skeptical rant, I guess the
Kennedy's are really lucky that a catholic chaplain was
on duty aboard the Briscoe. In today's military, it
could have been a wiccan.
And furthermore.....MSNBC has had Mike Barnicle on all
morning, regaling us with his own particular brand of
poetic ramblings. Lest we forget, he was fired for
lying. No wonder the media loves Clinton. They lie and
get rewarded for it, just like he does. Let a Matt
Drudge make a mistake and there's hell to pay, but
Barnicle's deliberate lies don't matter a twit.
Grrrrrr!
Posted on 7/22/1999 09:28:49 PDT by yaya123
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- To: bmwcyle
"Can someone tell me what this spoiled little rich boy
for this country except give us a worthless
publication."
The question above contains the answer -- once it is
realized that the leftist-liberal Clintonistas have
helped call what is bad, good; what is amoral, moral;
down, up; gutter, heaven; stink, perfume; lie, truth;
worthless, worthy . . . the list is endless.
Posted on 7/22/1999 11:31:57 PDT by Jai
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- To: Jai
This is what the Bible then calls the work of the Lord
of Darkness.
Posted on 7/22/1999 11:34:43 PDT by bmwcyle
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- To: All
KENNEDY ASHES CONSIGNED TO THE SEA
By Ramesh Chandran
The Times of India News Service
The Times of India
Friday, July 23, 1999
WASHINGTON: In a remarkably austere and simple ceremony
aboard the naval destroyer, USS Briscoe, some 15
closest members of the Kennedy and Bessette families
gathered to consign the remains of John F. Kennedy, Jr,
his wife Carolyn and her sister Lauren to the sea.
The ``burial at sea'' marked the commencement of three
days of grieving with a private memorial service
scheduled for Friday at a Manhattan church for JFK, Jr
and his wife Carolyn, and a memorial service for Lauren
Bessette on Saturday at Greenwich, Connecticut.
Thursday's unsparingly stark sea burial was described
by sources close to the families as reflecting the
Kennedys close association with the sea for three
generations - especially in the waters around Martha's
Vineyard and Cape Cod.
The sea has long pulled at the Kennedy family, as
expressed in a 1962 speech by the late President John
F. Kennedy. ``We all came from the sea,'' he said in
that speech. ``All of us have in our veins the exact
same percentage of salt in our blood that exists in the
ocean...we are tied to the ocean, and when we go back
to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch it, we
are going back from whence we came.''
It was reported that the family members were respecting
the wishes of JFK, Jr to be cremated and the ashes
scattered at sea and they also wished to avoid having a
``spectacle'' made of his final resting place. The US
navy's involvement in Thursday's ceremony was explained
as JFK Jr being the son of the assassinated President
who was a decorated naval officer and war hero whose
exploits were lauded in books and movies like PT-109.
Pentagon sources also stated that JFK, Jr himself was a
public figure who did considerable but barely-noticed
work for several charitable causes. Determined to keep
the ceremony private, boats and planes chartered by the
huge media contingent gathered at Hyannis Port were
interdicted by the Coast Guard from getting close to
the USS Briscoe after the closest family members,
including Senator Edward Kennedy, Caroline Kennedy
Schlosberg, Maria Shriver and several cousins as well
as members of the Bessette family, dressed in dark-
coloured clothes, had boarded the ship. Three folded
American flags and three wreaths with red, yellow and
white flowers had been placed on the ship. The media
had to resort to long-range shots of the destroyer as
it went farther away into the shimmering sea.
Most networks had Catholic priests on air trying to
interpret the significance of a `burial at sea'. Events
unfolded dramatically on Wednesday after the
unprecedented search operations located the fuselage
under water with all three bodies strapped in their
seats. Coast Guard admiral Richard Larrabee described
the wreckage as one of ``twisted metal'' and that the
three victims were ``near and under'' the fuselage.
Initial reports had indicated that only JFK, Jr's body
was found.
The low water temperature helped preserve the bodies,
one investigator was cited as saying to the local
media. While the bodies were being recovered by teams
of naval divers, Senator Edward Kennedy, JFK, Jr's
uncle and almost a surrogate father, accompanied by his
sons, Edward M. Kennedy, Jr and Patrick J. Kennedy, a
Congressman, requested that he wanted to be present on
the Coast Guard vessel Grasp.
Following a Massachusetts law, the three bodies were
taken to a local hospital for autopsy. For the recovery
and investigating teams, the real work commences now as
they salvage the remaining pieces of the wreckage from
the depths of the sea and piece together the debris to
examine what caused the single-engine Piper Saratoga to
hurtle to its doom last Friday.
Although there has been no real criticism of
authorities for having staged the massive search
operations, President Bill Clinton was asked if such an
effort would have been mounted for an ``average
citizen''. Clinton replied at length, fully justifying
the effort and arguing that federal officials had
indicated that they were poised to target major pieces
of debris and sought more time. He said it was his
decision alone to give more time for the unprecedented
search effort to continue. Although the Kennedy family,
so accustomed to personal tragedies, were masterfully
stoic in public, some of them like JFK, Jr's sister,
Caroline, were insistent that memorial services be kept
rigorously private. Consequently, Friday's memorial
service at St Thomas More church in Manhattan, a small
350-seat church where Jacqueline Onassis prayed, was
chosen as the venue. President Clinton and Hillary are
expected to attend while the media will be kept away
and services will not be broadcast unlike the case of
Jacqueline Onassis's funeral.
However, a public memorial service is being planned at
St Patrick's church in Manhattan. Given their status as
New York's most visible power couple, the entrance to
the TriBeCa apartment in Manhattan of JFK, Jr and
Caroline has been converted into a ``shrine'' strewn
with flowers and candles with queues snaking around
several blocks. Flowers were being collected from the
venue and gifted to children's hospitals.
Meanwhile, in the byways of cyberspace, weird theories
regarding JFK, Jr's death were being intensely
discussed. Conspiracy theories concerning the
assassination of President Kennedy had become a
veritable cottage industry. Now it was the son's turn.
Among the wackiest scenarios concerning the plane crash
included: It was ``not'' a plane crash but it was a
sinister plot by the mafia, the CIA, space aliens, a
programmed bird, Saudi terrorist Osama Bin Laden and
that the young Kennedy had ``faked'' his death to
escape excruciating tabloid scrutiny.
Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for
the educational purposes of research and open
discussion.
Posted on 7/22/1999 12:31:27 PDT by Jai
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Source of the above and more news and discussion:
http://www.freerepublic.com/
Archives of similar posts here:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/posts.html