Beer
lionel
beer is!
And the best thing to put in some "malts" is cod liver oil to take the taste
away!
Lionel
cynara
your taste buds, if you please? Meanwhile, until you reply, allow me
my very simple pleasure in having a Bass, if you please?
CY
Ernest
news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
If I can't have a Ruppaner, which is an excellent but obscure German
micro-brewed lager, then a Redhook ESB or India Pale is the only choice as
far as I'm concerned. Of course, our choices here in the US are meager
compared to the choices our friends in Europe have so I'm basing my opinion
on the beers I can get here locally. I should add that here in Seattle, we
have better choices than most American towns. We take our beer and coffee
VERY seriously here. If you offer someone a (gasp) Coors or Miller around
here, they will likely break it over your head.
E.
cynara
> micro-brewed lager, then a Redhook ESB or India Pale is the only choice as
> far as I'm concerned. Of course, our choices here in the US are meager
> compared to the choices our friends in Europe
Oh, exactly!! I tried other ales in UK, but I can't really remember
the names of them. In Edinburgh, I believe what I had was numbered!
Can't remember what it was, but the friend I was with is local, so he
knew what he was ordering. It was good. I also liked the McCaffreys
(sp?) the Lainie introduced me to at the Trout. But I can find Bass
ale here too (Thank Goodness!)
have so I'm basing my opinion
> on the beers I can get here locally. I should add that here in Seattle, we
> have better choices than most American towns. We take our beer and coffee
> VERY seriously here.
You DO!!! MY sis lives rightoutside Seattle. YOu guys do damn good,
if I may say so myself!
CY
lionel
Try google searches for them.
Lionel
Martin Underwood
> "Ernest" <erne...@attbi.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:<ofCH8.98656$UV4.187640@rwcrnsc54>...
> > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> >
> the names of them. In Edinburgh, I believe what I had was numbered!
> Can't remember what it was, but the friend I was with is local, so he
> knew what he was ordering. It was good.
Having read Ian Rankin's Inspector Rebus books, I now know that the beer
you're talking about is probably "80 Shilling" (it's what Rebus drinks).
that_certain_third_doctor_fan
>Okay, I'm open to learning something new everyday. So what tickles
>your taste buds, if you please? Meanwhile, until you reply, allow me
>my very simple pleasure in having a Bass, if you please?
>
>CY
I must admit to a similar love of Bass Ale. It remained my number one
favorite for many years and now sits at the second position, just
beneath an organically made golden ale from my local brewery.
However, when I first read your posts, it did occur to me that
Inspector Morse would likely turn up his nose and add a sarcastic
remark if he should chance to see you sipping Bass. He strikes me as
a dark beer man--a lover of stout, perhaps even porter.
Martin Underwood
news:bui1fu8gopmm5t1f7...@4ax.com...
I think he'd probably prefer something like Hook Norton's "Old Hooky" or
Morland's "Old Speckled Hen" (both local Oxfordshire breweries). He might
deign to try "foreign" (non-Oxfordshire) beers like Theakston's "Old
Peculier" [note the spelling], Black Sheep or some of the Wychwood beers
such as "Fiddler's Elbow".
I cannot in a million years imagine him drinking lager of any description. I
like the bit at the end of Fat Chance when he's at a party organised by Emma
Pickford and he's offered a choice of (I think) Elephant lager or orange
juice. He thinks for a second... and then opts for orange juice :-)
He might go for a dark beer like porter or Black Sheep's "Riggwelter". He
might even try a stout like Guinness or Beamish - but only if he was in
Ireland and coudl sample the genuine article; I imagine he be very scathing
about the English version of Guinness!
In short, I bet he's a bit (a lot?) of a beer snob.
cynara
> "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> > "Ernest" <erne...@attbi.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:<ofCH8.98656$UV4.187640@rwcrnsc54>...
> > > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > Oh, exactly!! I tried other ales in UK, but I can't really remember
> > the names of them. In Edinburgh, I believe what I had was numbered!
> > Can't remember what it was, but the friend I was with is local, so he
> > knew what he was ordering. It was good.
>
> Having read Ian Rankin's Inspector Rebus books, I now know that the beer
> you're talking about is probably "80 Shilling" (it's what Rebus drinks).
Wise man. It probably was...the friend was Mr. Ian Rankin himself!
We visited many pubs ending up at the Oxford, Rebus's fave pub. As a
budding writer, Ian let me tag with him while he was researching, I
think, Lost Souls.
CY
cynara
Mr. Dexter is a man who loves real ale and Bass is right there on top
of his list of fave ales!! He introduced me to Bass Ale, as a matter
of fact. He has a fondness for several ales though. Usually what Mr.
Dexter likes, so does Morse. That goes for Wagner, crosswords and
real ale! :>))
If you'd like, when I speak with him next (Er, Dexter, not Morse),
I'll ask him what Morse's fave ale is and where Bass ale stands in
Morse's affections. Enquiring minds want to know for sure--me
particularly.
I believe Brakspear has a Morse ale!?
CY
that_certain_third_doctor_fan
While you're at it, ask him this:
WHO actually killed Gifford?
WHY was Gifford killed?
WHY did the killer take Gifford's keys?
WHY was Henderson driving around town with a gun? What did he ever do
with it? (Gifford was strangled.)
I've asked twice on this list, and nobody has been able to answer.
that_certain_third_doctor_fan
@van-der-woude-00.myweb.nl H. van der Woude
<That Certain Third Doctor Fan> schreef in bericht news:id23fukvt778hld32...@4ax.com...
So I see...
Herman van der Woude
mailto: herman @ van-der-woude-00.myweb.nl
spaces added to avoid SPAM/spaties toegevoegd om SPAM te vermijden)
http://www.van-der-woude-00.myweb.nl
Martin Underwood
Who is Gifford? Which story does he appear in?
Martin Underwood
news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> "Martin Underwood" <martin.u...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:<QE1I8.183$0x3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>...
> > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Ernest" <erne...@attbi.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> > news:<ofCH8.98656$UV4.187640@rwcrnsc54>...
> > > > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > > >
> > > Oh, exactly!! I tried other ales in UK, but I can't really remember
> > > the names of them. In Edinburgh, I believe what I had was numbered!
> > > Can't remember what it was, but the friend I was with is local, so he
> > > knew what he was ordering. It was good.
> >
> > Having read Ian Rankin's Inspector Rebus books, I now know that the beer
> > you're talking about is probably "80 Shilling" (it's what Rebus drinks).
>
> Wise man. It probably was...the friend was Mr. Ian Rankin himself!
> We visited many pubs ending up at the Oxford, Rebus's fave pub. As a
> budding writer, Ian let me tag with him while he was researching, I
> think, Lost Souls.
Bloody name-dropper!
Now if Morse is rather partial to the odd drop of ale, then he's a mere
amateur compared to Rebus.
I've read all the Rebus books now, with the exception of the new one which
is only available in hardback at present at rip-off prices. Unfortunately I
read them in a random order so some of the running story lines such as his
affair with Patience and Sammy's accident were out of step. Also it took me
ages to learn why Big Ger Cafferty calls him "Strawman" - and after waiting
this long it's a pretty naff reason!
I could do with a dictionary of Scottish dialect words: usually you can work
out an unfamiliar word by its context but there are a few that have got me
beaten. "High hyedins" (which means "top brass", "bigwigs"), for example.
lionel
>I could do with a dictionary of Scottish dialect words: usually you can
work
>out an unfamiliar word by its context but there are a few that have got me
>beaten. "High hyedins" (which means "top brass", "bigwigs"), for example.
>
The concise English - Scots Dictionary published by Chambers (ISBN 0 550
11850 0) is quite good.
Lionel
that_certain_third_doctor_fan
van-der-woude-00.myweb.nl> wrote:
>
><That Certain Third Doctor Fan> schreef in bericht news:id23fukvt778hld32...@4ax.com...
>| On 26 May 2002 18:13:49 -0700, cyn...@excite.com (cynara) wrote:
>|
>| >That Certain Third Doctor Fan wrote in message news:<bui1fu8gopmm5t1f7...@4ax.com>...
>| >> On 23 May 2002 17:22:54 -0700, cyn...@excite.com (cynara) wrote:
>|
>|
>| I've asked twice on this list, and nobody has been able to answer.
>
>So I see...
>
Actually, I was referring to asking inthis thread and asking in a
different tread. I just saw that my last post appeared twice, and I
don't know why.
I just gota new computer this weekend, and apparently I am not using
the new software correctly. My apologies. If this message appears
twice, I give you permissin to throw bottles of Bass Ale at me (in
foam containers, of course)
that_certain_third_doctor_fan
<martin.u...@virgin.net> wrote:
>> WHO actually killed Gifford?
>> WHY was Gifford killed?
>> WHY did the killer take Gifford's keys?
>> WHY was Henderson driving around town with a gun? What did he ever do
>> with it? (Gifford was strangled.)
>>
>> I've asked twice on this list, and nobody has been able to answer.
>
>Who is Gifford? Which story does he appear in?
>
It's called something like "The Mystery of Bay 5b" or maybe "The Body
in Bay 5b." It's about a body found in a car in a parking garage, and
the keys in the ignition are gone.
cynara
> "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> > "Martin Underwood" <martin.u...@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:<QE1I8.183$0x3....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>...
> > > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > > news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> > > > "Ernest" <erne...@attbi.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:<ofCH8.98656$UV4.187640@rwcrnsc54>...
> > > > > "cynara" <cyn...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > > > >
>
> Bloody name-dropper!
Oh, Martin!! LOL. Sorry. I only mentioned it because you were the one
who brought up Rebus, a character I like as much as Morse in the
novels. Who would've guessed you'd bring up Rebus! Uncanny. ROFL.
> Now if Morse is rather partial to the odd drop of ale, then he's a mere
> amateur compared to Rebus.
Well, I can say that both Dexter and Rankin have met up in Edinburgh
at book festivals and together they drank the place dry, no doubt!
It's the closest I think that Morse and Rebus will ever be to sharing
a pint together. And both characters (REbus and Morse), enjoy their
single malt whiskey as well.
>
> I've read all the Rebus books now, with the exception of the new one which
> is only available in hardback at present at rip-off prices. Unfortunately I
> read them in a random order so some of the running story lines such as his
> affair with Patience and Sammy's accident were out of step. Also it took me
> ages to learn why Big Ger Cafferty calls him "Strawman" - and after waiting
> this long it's a pretty naff reason!
I love the series too. I have The Falls sitting on my desk and I've
not read it because I don't have the newest one yet. I started with
the first, Knots and Crosses. I think my least enjoyable was the
Tooth And Nail one. IT was okay....did you read it, Martin? If so,
did you like it?
I think Rebus came into his own with Black and Blue. I've also read
the Watchman. Pre-Rebus, but an enjoyable read in its own right.
HAve you seen the telly episodes of Rebus? I am not sure about John
Hannah as Rebus. I always pictured Rebus to be larger and more
rugged; his skin more lived in. I have a copy of the epi Hanging
Gardens, but I've not been able to view it yet. Not sure if I want to
yet since Rebus has an identity in my mind and I'm not sure I want to
mess with that image just yet.
Did you have a fave Rebus, Martin?
I've heard it said that Rebus is considered to be the Morse of the
North. LOL.
> I could do with a dictionary of Scottish dialect words: usually you can work
> out an unfamiliar word by its context but there are a few that have got me
> beaten. "High hyedins" (which means "top brass", "bigwigs"), for example.
Me too! LOL. It would help. :>)) I am about to start reading the
latest Dalgliesh, Death In Holy Orders. Hope I like it.
CY
Martin Underwood
Ah yes. "The Secret Of Bay 5B" (appallingly corny title [1]). Yes, good
point -
now you mention it, there were a few loose ends surrounding Gifford's death
and Henderson's shotgun, weren't there.
Was "5B" actually written by Colin Dexter (as a storyline which the
scriptwriter fleshed out) or was it just "based on characters created by"?
[1] Colin Dexter started the trend for corny titles, with the novels "The
Secret Of Annexe 3" (never filmed) and "The Riddle Of The Third Mile"
(filmed as The Last Enemy but without Dexter's scenes in the seedy strip
club).
Martin Underwood
news:e5f12ec5.02052...@posting.google.com...
> "Martin Underwood" <martin.u...@virgin.net> wrote in message
> >
> > Bloody name-dropper!
>
> Oh, Martin!! LOL. Sorry. I only mentioned it because you were the one
> who brought up Rebus, a character I like as much as Morse in the
> novels. Who would've guessed you'd bring up Rebus! Uncanny. ROFL.
>
> > Now if Morse is rather partial to the odd drop of ale, then he's a mere
> > amateur compared to Rebus.
>
> Well, I can say that both Dexter and Rankin have met up in Edinburgh
> at book festivals and together they drank the place dry, no doubt!
> It's the closest I think that Morse and Rebus will ever be to sharing
> single malt whiskey as well.
I'm trying to imagine a meeting between Morse and Rebus. I wonder if Morse
might find Rebus a bit unkempt and coarse, compared with his own immaculate
dress sense and his purist attitude to music and the English language. Morse
drinks a lot but we've never seen him drunk or maudlin, whereas Rebus is
often both.
> > I've read all the Rebus books now, with the exception of the new one
which
> > is only available in hardback at present at rip-off prices.
Unfortunately I
> > read them in a random order so some of the running story lines such as
his
> > affair with Patience and Sammy's accident were out of step. Also it took
me
> > ages to learn why Big Ger Cafferty calls him "Strawman" - and after
waiting
> > this long it's a pretty naff reason!
>
> I love the series too. I have The Falls sitting on my desk and I've
> not read it because I don't have the newest one yet. I started with
> the first, Knots and Crosses. I think my least enjoyable was the
> Tooth And Nail one. IT was okay....did you read it, Martin? If so,
> did you like it?
"Tooth and Nail" - that was the one set in North London, wasn't it? Rankin
originally published it under the title "Wolfman". It was an interesting
idea to take Rebus away from his familiar surroundings and see how he coped
in a city where people had difficulty understanding his accent, he was
unfamiliar with the "territory" and he had no official jurisdiction. It was
a little implausible that he should have been seconded from such a long way
away - you'd think that there would have been other non-Londoners a bit
closer to home who had experience of serial murder cases. We never *did*
learn why the detective who was looking after him in London had a huge teddy
bear on the back seat of his car, did we?
> I think Rebus came into his own with Black and Blue. I've also read
> the Watchman. Pre-Rebus, but an enjoyable read in its own right.
> HAve you seen the telly episodes of Rebus? I am not sure about John
> Hannah as Rebus. I always pictured Rebus to be larger and more
> rugged; his skin more lived in. I have a copy of the epi Hanging
> Gardens, but I've not been able to view it yet. Not sure if I want to
> yet since Rebus has an identity in my mind and I'm not sure I want to
> mess with that image just yet.
I've not actually seen the TV version. I'd like to if it gets repeated some
time [1]. I only started reading the books a few months ago after a friend
recommended them. John Hannah is way too young and "refined" to play Rebus,
in my opinion. I imagine Rebus to be in his late forties or early fifties by
the time of the recent books, with a world-weary lived-in face - rather like
an Edinburgh version of Taggart (gritty TV detective series set in Glasgow -
has it been shown in the States?).
I've not read "The Watchman", "The Flood" or "Westwind". I read the three
Jack Harvey novels. Somehow "Witch Hunt" didn't work for me: there were too
many different organisations involved (MI5, police etc) and I kept getting
the characters mixed up. The other two were excellent: I liked the idea in
"Bleeding Hearts" of having a haemophiliac assassin (a pretty serious
disability for someone who has to deal with the recoil of a rifle) whose
story was told in the first person, with the PI's story told in the third
person - instantly makes you root for the assassin's side!
> Did you have a fave Rebus, Martin?
I think I like the later Rebus stories more: the character is a bit more
subtle and less of a boorish drunkard. I keep half expecting that one day,
he and Siobhan Clarke might end up in bed together - I get the distinct
impression that they both secretly fancy each other just a little bit -
but would rather die than admit it! Rebus likes to think that he's a hard
man, but the way he reacted when he was first told of Sammy's hit-and-run
accident in "The Hanging Garden" makes you realise that he's vulnerable
just like everyone else.
> I've heard it said that Rebus is considered to be the Morse of the
> North. LOL.
I suppose he could be. Various parts of the country have got their "pet"
detectives: Morse in Oxford; Dalziel in Yorkshire; Frost somewhere in the
Thames Valley (though I always think they're set in Yorkshire as well,
because that's where they're filmed - I enjoy location-spotting because I
was brought up in the area); Rebus in Edinburgh; Wexford in Sussex; Wycliffe
in Cornwall etc. They're all likeable men who I could spend an evening
chatting to over a pint or several. The odd one out is P D James' Dalgliesh:
he comes across, both in the books and on TV, as being very cold and
peremptory, with no loveable human failings that I can identify with. And
the characters in P D James' books don't speak and think like any human
being I've ever met - I just can't relate to them at all. I've read all her
books, so I've given them a good trial - the plots are intriguingly tortuous
and keep you guessing - it's just the characters that I can't quite get on
with. I think also that P D James falls into the trap of trying to make her
books a little bit more than "merely" detective novels - and it shows that
she's trying a bit too hard.
My favourite is a toss-up between Morse, Dalziel and Frost. Dalziel and
Frost have both got that wonderful quality of being mavericks who know that
they can't be criticised because their unconventional methods and their
loathing of petty procedure unquestionably get excellent results. The
relationship between Frost and his superior, Supt Mullett, is superb. The
Frost books also interplay several cases, which is probably more realistic
than having a detective concentrating exclusively on one case. Behind Morse,
Dalziel and Frost in the league of detectives come Rebus, Wexford and
Wycliffe. For me, Dalgliesh is an also-ran.
Which leads onto the inevitable book-Morse versus TV-Morse discussion. I
think that the character of TV-Morse is probably more likeable and probably
a bit more subtle and vulnerable. Also the changing relationship between
Morse and Lewis as time goies on is a bit more evident in the TV version. I
like Lewis's rather prudish attitude to sex and bodily functions (he falls
back on euphemisms and "you know", especially in "Last Seen Wearing"). But
TV-Morse doesn't have book-Morse's other human failing: his secret
fascination with the seedy side of life (strip clubs, porno mags etc) - I
can't imagine John Thaw and Kevin Whately indulging in the occasional "Cor,
Lewis, you seen the size of these?" chuckle to lighten the serious side of
solving murders. I was a bit disappointed that they set "Last Seen Wearing"
in a top-notch girls' boarding school rather than a typical comprehensive
(as in the book) and that they omitted the ultimate irony, that book-Morse
meets the missing Valerie Philips when she's pretending to be Mrs Acum but
doesn't even realise who she is until it's too late. And of course the TV
series can't reproduce the word-puzzles such as the analysis by everyone and
his dog of the poem in "The Way Through The Woods" and the three very
different writing styles of the books that Morse is reading in hospital in
"The Wench Is Dead". But then, of course, the books don't have the
atmospheric music and the well-lit shots of Oxford colleges. TV versus book?
Neither is better than the other - they're just different.
> > I could do with a dictionary of Scottish dialect words: usually you can
work
> > out an unfamiliar word by its context but there are a few that have got
me
> > beaten. "High hyedins" (which means "top brass", "bigwigs"), for
example.
>
> Me too! LOL. It would help. :>)) I am about to start reading the
> latest Dalgliesh, Death In Holy Orders. Hope I like it.
> CY
[1] Unfortunately ITV, who made Rebus, has just announced that it will not
be showing as much drama as it used to (it has a huge backlog waiting to be
transmitted) because it's more profitable for them to show other programmes
due to some stupid accounting rule. Subscription channels such as UK Gold
and Granada Plus which specialise in repeating the best of UK TV programmes,
are now off-limits to me. The company ITV Digital which used to transmit
them terrestrially (so you could receive them using an ordinary TV aerial)
has just gone bust in a fairly spectacular fashion. In theory I could
receive them via satellite, but local planning rules mean that I'm not
allowed to put a dish on the only side of my house that could "see" the
satellite, and my village (near Abingdon, a few miles south of Morse-land)
doesn't have a cable feed to it. Unless the planning laws are relaxed or
some other company starts up in place of ITV Digital, I'm stuffed for seeing
repeats unless they're shown on the normal free-to-air channels like BBC,
ITV, Channel 4 etc.
cynara
>
> "Tooth and Nail" - that was the one set in North London, wasn't it?
Yes! That's the one.
It was a little implausible that he should have been seconded from
such a long way away - you'd think that there would have been other
non-Londoners a bit
> closer to home who had experience of serial murder cases. We never *did*
> learn why the detective who was looking after him in London had a huge teddy
> bear on the back seat of his car, did we?
>
Come to think of it...I think not, or I missed it.
> > I think Rebus came into his own with Black and Blue. I've also read
> > the Watchman. Pre-Rebus, but an enjoyable read in its own right.
> > HAve you seen the telly episodes of Rebus?
>
I only started reading the books a few months ago after a friend
> recommended them. John Hannah is way too young and "refined" to play Rebus,
> in my opinion.
Yeah. Mine too. I picture him as the goofy brother in The Mummy
films. I realise I should watch the programme and make my opinion,
but I just can't do it yet. Hannah also played in Sliding Doors and
of course, Three Weddings and A Funeral. Not anything that would make
one see him as Rebus.
I imagine Rebus to be in his late forties or early fifties by the time
of the recent books, with a world-weary lived-in face - rather like an
Edinburgh version of Taggart (gritty TV detective series set in
Glasgow - has it been shown in the States?).
No, but I've seen photos of the actor who played Taggart. Didn't he
die? He has a Rebus face though, I agree wholeheartedly.
I saw a Brit film called NAked with an outstanding actor named David
Thewlis. I could see this actor making Rebus come alive far better
than Hannah, who is a good actor in his own right. IT's just that
Thewlis played a rather tortured, driven character in such a gritty,
bleak landscape that I could see Rebus somewhere in his
characterization.
>
> I've not read "The Watchman", "The Flood" or "Westwind". I read the three
> Jack Harvey novels.
I can't find them (the Harvey novels) here in the states, and I looked
for them in the bookstores of Oxford, but had no luck. One day I'd
like to read at least one of the Harvey novels. Ian said they were
not published in the States. The Watcher had a lot of intrigue and
spies and people's habits being compared to beetles! Very unique and
intriguing, I thought.
Somehow "Witch Hunt" didn't work for me: there were too
> many different organisations involved (MI5, police etc) and I kept getting
> the characters mixed up. The other two were excellent: I liked the idea in
> "Bleeding Hearts" of having a haemophiliac assassin (a pretty serious
> disability for someone who has to deal with the recoil of a rifle) whose
> story was told in the first person, with the PI's story told in the third
> person - instantly makes you root for the assassin's side!
>
Ooooh! This would be a good one to read!!
> > Did you have a fave Rebus, Martin?
>
> I think I like the later Rebus stories more: the character is a bit more
> subtle and less of a boorish drunkard. (snip)
Rebus likes to think that he's a hard man, but the way he reacted
when he was first told of Sammy's hit-and-run accident in "The Hanging
Garden" makes you realise that he's vulnerable just like everyone
else.
Yeah. His daughter is a soft spot with him. I thought in the end
when they found the culprit who ran over Sammy was a great idea.
(Don't want to say it in case someone is reading the book!)
>
> > I've heard it said that Rebus is considered to be the Morse of the
> > North. LOL.
>
> I suppose he could be. Various parts of the country have got their "pet"
> detectives: Morse in Oxford; Dalziel in Yorkshire; Frost somewhere in the
> Thames Valley (though I always think they're set in Yorkshire as well,
> because that's where they're filmed - I enjoy location-spotting because I
> was brought up in the area); Rebus in Edinburgh; Wexford in Sussex; Wycliffe
> in Cornwall etc. They're all likeable men who I could spend an evening
> chatting to over a pint or several.
Martin, you have impeccable taste. I LOVE Wycliffe. I know they've
made a series of Wycliffe's for the telly, but I've never seen one.
:>(
The odd one out is P D James' Dalgliesh:> he comes across, both in the
books and on TV, as being very cold and peremptory, with no loveable
human failings that I can identify with. And the characters in P D
James' books don't speak and think like any human being I've ever met
- I just can't relate to them at all. I've read all her books, so I've
given them a good trial - the plots are intriguingly tortuous and keep
you guessing - it's just the characters that I can't quite get on
with.
So tell me then, if you will, in a mystery novel, what do you think is
most important ingredient in a story to you as a reader, a tortuous
plot or interesting characters who appeal to you in one way or
another? I know that ideally one wants a good plot and interesting
characters you can care about all in one good story, but at a minimum,
which of the two will keep you reading longest?
> My favourite is a toss-up between Morse, Dalziel and Frost.
Yes, I like them ALL. I prefer Dalziel's character over PAscoe. In
one novel, Dalziel returns from America and when asked what he thought
of America, he said it will be very nice if they ever get through
building it. Very true! ROFL!
I prefer Pascoe over Ellie. I don't like her character. Just don't.
She irritates me and I while I see Pascoe having a possible long-time
relationship with her character, maybe even living together for
awhile, I truly never could see the characters getting married. Is it
just me?
I rather like Inspector Banks, Peter Robinson's character. He's an
C.I. in Yorkshire. The later books are pretty good. Also, Cynthia
Harrod-Eagles has a wonderful series as well featuring Detective Bill
slider. I'll never forget the first one of hers I read. The one with
the fried finger found in the girl's chips!
Behind Morse, Dalziel and Frost in the league of detectives come
Rebus, Wexford and Wycliffe.
AGREED!
>
> Which leads onto the inevitable book-Morse versus TV-Morse discussion. I
> think that the character of TV-Morse is probably more likeable and probably
> a bit more subtle and vulnerable. Also the changing relationship between
> Morse and Lewis as time goies on is a bit more evident in the TV version. I
> like Lewis's rather prudish attitude to sex and bodily functions (he falls
> back on euphemisms and "you know", especially in "Last Seen Wearing"). But
> TV-Morse doesn't have book-Morse's other human failing: his secret
> fascination with the seedy side of life (strip clubs, porno mags etc) -
That side of him doesn't bother me because I don't think it's in
excess. I think it's more curiousity and perhaps fantasy with a bit
of loneliness mixed in. Tries to be a man of the world but even
though he tries, he doesn't quite succeed.
> can't imagine John Thaw and Kevin Whately indulging in the occasional "Cor,
> Lewis, you seen the size of these?" chuckle to lighten the serious side of
> solving murders.
Maybe not, but they play with it subtly in The Dead Of Jericho in the
bar scene where Morse and Lewis are having a drink after Morse is
busted by Lewis breaking into the victims apartment. A prostitute
bobbles past them in all her sleazy glory and though Morse and Lewis
don't say anthing, they don't need to. Their eyes speak for them, as
does the momentary break in the conversation.
But then, of course, the books don't have the atmospheric music
I wrote an in-depth article on the music of the novels a few years
ago. You'd be surprised Martin, but there's a lot of music to be heard
in the novels. There's also a truer sense of one man's obsession for
his favourite musical works that is a continuing thread in the novels
that you don't get in the t.v. episodes. I think that it's truer in
the novels than in the telly programmes because the novels reflect the
personal musical tastes of one person, the author, and the telly
Morse's musical tastes are a reflection of whatever the story might
call for. I guess I'm trying to say that in the novels, there's a
truer sense of Morse's musical tastes.
I have to say that if Rebus met Morse, they'd probably recognise the
loner in each other, appreciate each others individual styles of
detecting, and in general get on pretty well, until it comes to
music!! Imagine--the Stones meet Wagner! ROFL.
TV versus book? Neither is better than the other - they're just
different.
True. I do like both for different reasons, and whenever I read a
Morse novel, I see Thaw as Morse.
All this talk...I need to wet my whistle. Some tea this time, I
think. MArtin?
A pint or tea? Oh, and Martin? Thanks for the your super post.
CY