But WHAT do Liberals REALLY THINK ??
Doug Bashford
Republicans don't really know what Liberal think,
you just know what the Right has TOLD you they think.
"He who only knows one side of the case, knows little of that.
If he is unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side:
if he does not so much as know what they are,
he had no ground for preferring either opinion."
It is not enough that one simply has an unexamined belief
that happens to be true; one must understand why the belief
in question is the true one.
-- John Stuart Mill, (On Liberty, 1859).
Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals
and they don't even know it. What they hate about
Liberalism are just straw man lies.
However, there are exceptions to that rule. You really
have very little in common with Democrats if you are
one of those hysterical, frightened, hate-filled chest-
beating ninnies who think of politics as ball game
rah-rah (entertainment) rather than the boring and
often tedius job of properly running our nation.
...such as never growing up.
- Political Economics:
- Socialism: The government/people own the corporations.
- Fascism: The corporations/government own the people.
- "Fascism should more properly be called
- corporatism, since it is the merger
- of state and corporate power."
-- - Benito Mussolini, father of fascism.
- Republicans: think the very rich are the backbone of America.
- Democrats: think the middle class are the backbone of America.
- Republicans: are terrified some may get more than they deserve.
- Democrats: are terrified most earn less than they deserve.
- Republicans: think Americans deserve 27th in health care.
- Democrats: think Americans deserve better.
- Republicans: think health care is mostly about defending profits.
- Democrats: think health care is mostly about defending health.
- Republicans: must lie to get people to do right.
- Democrats: must be honest to get people to do right.
- Republicans: fear government but trust corporations.
- Democrats: fear both.
- "Fascism...is the merger
- of state and corporate power."
-- - Benito Mussolini
So? How might that happen in America?
The fist steps of that merger would be:
1) deregulating corporations
and
2) give them "personhood" rights. -- Then
3) define money as being protected speech. Holy.
......... Of course, that's all done.
Voila!
Doug Bashford
in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, about:
But WHAT do Liberals REALLY THINK ??
>
> Republicans don't really know what Liberal think,
> you just know what the Right has TOLD you they think.
"He who only knows one side of the case, knows little of that.
-- John Stuart Mill, (On Liberty, 1859).
> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals
> and they don't even know it. What they hate about
> Liberalism are just straw man lies.
Republicans seem to be afraid of the Liberal viewpoint.
It's taboo. Why!? Republicannism is a religion.
"The rest of the story," is blasphemy.
Proof?
- IT'S THE STEPHANIE MILLER SHOWWW !!!
=============
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KK
> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
I'm not a Republican, but I'll tell you two things I don't like about
liberals.
#1: Liberals feel entitled to the fruits of my labor, to the returns on
my investment, to gifts I give or receive, to lay fees on my travel, on
my home, and on any number of actions or objects.
Before beginning to ignore the obvious - that taxes on work income
discourages work, and that taxes on investment gains discourage
investment - they first ignore the immorality of confiscating twenty,
thirty, *fifty* percent of what a person makes. No amount is
unjustifiable in the name of feeding leviathan government.
#2: Liberals believe in the religion of government, and hold government
sovereign over the individual. They trust government to make better
decisions than the public to educate its children, to save for its
future, to protect it from its own stupidity. Liberals will rightly hold
up Bernie Madoff as a scam artist and Ponzi schemer, yet hold their hands
over their eyes and tell you that Social Security is just fine.
Phlip
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>
>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
>> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
>
> I'm not a Republican, but I'll tell you two things I don't like about
> liberals.
>
> #1: Liberals feel entitled to the fruits of my labor, to the returns on
> my investment, to gifts I give or receive, to lay fees on my travel, on
> my home, and on any number of actions or objects.
Would it kill you to actually study political science in general, instead of
simply reciting the GOP's official view of "tax-n-spend liberals"?
Each time Democrats are in office, taxes go down for the middle class. Oh, and
the debt goes down, and prosperity goes up. Exactly the formula you want.
It's the GOP with their "corporate welfare" who take your tax money and hand it
to the extreme rich...
Jim Alder
> Republicans don't really know what Liberal think,
> you just know what the Right has TOLD you they think.
No, Bashford, we don't know IF they think. We know how they FEEL, because
they can't shut up about it for five minutes. But these feelings don't
indicate a lot of thinking. They mostly indicate a hatred for anyone who
doesn't feel the same way.
> "He who only knows one side of the case, knows little of that.
> If he is unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side:
> if he does not so much as know what they are,
> he had no ground for preferring either opinion."
> It is not enough that one simply has an unexamined belief
> that happens to be true; one must understand why the belief
> in question is the true one.
> -- John Stuart Mill, (On Liberty, 1859).
>
> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals
> and they don't even know it.
Ahh-hahahahahaha! Doug, that's what hobosexuals (bum fucks) say, too!
> What they hate about
> Liberalism are just straw man lies.
Like what?
> However, there are exceptions to that rule. You really
> have very little in common with Democrats if you are
> one of those hysterical, frightened, hate-filled chest-
> beating ninnies
No, Doug, I'd have to say that sounds like a spot-on description of
Liberal Democrats.
> ...who think of politics as ball game
> rah-rah (entertainment)
Your nym is "playing@work", Bashford. Sounds like you're here to
entertain yourself, This trolling post of yours is even more proof.
> rather than the boring and
> often tedius job of properly running our nation.
> ...such as never growing up.
>
>
>
> - Political Economics:
>
> - Socialism: The government/people own the corporations.
> - Fascism: The corporations/government own the people.
I think government and people are not the same thing.
> - "Fascism should more properly be called
> - corporatism, since it is the merger
> - of state and corporate power."
> -- - Benito Mussolini, father of fascism.
>
> - Republicans: think the very rich are the backbone of America.
> - Democrats: think the middle class are the backbone of America.
I think Democrats see the middle class as a source of many votes, just as
they view the poor. They view the rich with mixed emotions.
> - Republicans: are terrified some may get more than they deserve.
> - Democrats: are terrified most earn less than they deserve.
Democrats think people deserve something for nothing.
> - Republicans: think Americans deserve 27th in health care.
> - Democrats: think Americans deserve better.
Republicans think, hence they know that yours is a strawman argument.
> - Republicans: think health care is mostly about defending profits.
> - Democrats: think health care is mostly about defending health.
I think if the government gets any more involved in health care than they
already are with medicare and such, they will fuck it up beyond recognition
and people will die waiting for care.
> - Republicans: must lie to get people to do right.
> - Democrats: must be honest to get people to do right.
Ahhh-hahahahahahahahahahahaaha!!!
> - Republicans: fear government but trust corporations.
> - Democrats: fear both.
Conservatives have always feared government. It's why they are
conservative. Democrats think government is the answer to everything.
> - "Fascism...is the merger
> - of state and corporate power."
> -- - Benito Mussolini
>
> So? How might that happen in America?
> The first steps of that merger would be:
> 1) deregulating corporations
I would think the first steps would be to put yourself in the position of
running the corporations, such as loaning them money to bail them out, then
using that as leverage to close outlets, limit executive salaries and other
things Obama has done with GM. See, if you "deregulate the corporations" you
give THEM power. You 'think' an aspiring fascist government would want to
strengthen the corporations BEFORE they were in control of them? You're not
THINKING.
> and
> 2) give them "personhood" rights. -- Then
> 3) define money as being protected speech. Holy.
> ......... Of course, that's all done.
>
> Voila!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood_debate
Liberals "think" they can make a claim, then cite a long involved article
about the controversy as proof that they're right. Exhibit A & B:
"corporate personhood debate refers to the controversy (primarily in the
United States) over the question of what subset of rights afforded under the
law to natural persons should also be afforded to corporations as legal
persons."
"This article or section has multiple issues."
--
So, how's that whole "hopey - changey"
thing working out for you so far?
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>
>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
>> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
And here's Furball to prove you right:
KK
> KK wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>
>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
>>> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
>>
>> I'm not a Republican, but I'll tell you two things I don't like about
>> liberals.
>>
>> #1: Liberals feel entitled to the fruits of my labor, to the returns on
>> my investment, to gifts I give or receive, to lay fees on my travel, on
>> my home, and on any number of actions or objects.
>
> Would it kill you to actually study political science in general,
> instead of simply reciting the GOP's official view of "tax-n-spend
> liberals"?
What makes you think I haven't? Or, for that matter, that I'd believe
the GOP if they promised me that the sun would rise in the east tomorrow?
The GOP are almost as bad tax-and-spenders as the Democrats - a
distinction the Dems seem bent on eliminating.
Are you suggesting that the Democrats are *not* tax-happy and that,
instead of watching year after year of government growth, and proposal
after proposal to tax one thing after another, the real truth is that
those things are all lies and I'm blindly following a GOP which is
running a close second in irresponsibility?
> Each time Democrats are in office, taxes go down for the middle class.
Right, the Dems are behind all the tax-lowering proposals. Are you
*really* suggesting that?
> Oh, and the debt goes down, and prosperity goes up. Exactly the formula
> you want.
>
> It's the GOP with their "corporate welfare" who take your tax money and
> hand it to the extreme rich...
The Bush tax cuts benefitted something like 85% - pretty much anyone who
paid any income tax.
Current proposals will require HUGE tax hikes. Stick your head in the
sand and pretend it's not true, if you like.
KK
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>
>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
>>> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
>
> And here's Furball to prove you right:
"Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:06 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>
>>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't even
>>>> know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man lies.
>>
>> And here's Furball to prove you right:
>
>
> "Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
I just agreed your craps was nothing but straw man lies. Looks like a
denial to me.
KK
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:56:59 +0000, KK wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:06 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't
>>>>> even know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man
>>>>> lies.
>>>
>>> And here's Furball to prove you right:
>>
>>
>> "Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
>
> I just agreed your craps was nothing but straw man lies. Looks like a
> denial to me.
What specifically is a "straw man lie"? Do you believe liberals do *not*
feel more entitled to tax me? Do you really deny that their policies
tend more toward government "taking care" of its citizens?
lab~rat >:-)
Add to it the fact that liberals are overwhelmingly lawyers. Nothing
good comes from those buttplugs.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:54:31 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:56:59 +0000, KK wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:06 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't
>>>>>> even know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man
>>>>>> lies.
>>>>
>>>> And here's Furball to prove you right:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
>>
>> I just agreed your craps was nothing but straw man lies. Looks like a
>> denial to me.
>
> What specifically is a "straw man lie"? Do you believe liberals do
> *not* feel more entitled to tax me?
I believe in a progressive tax system. I've no idea how that would
affect you, but if you're a typical trailer-park Republican, you would
benefit from it.
Do you really deny that their
> policies tend more toward government "taking care" of its citizens?
Wow. You sure changed the phrasing on THAT one? Do you always move the
goalposts like that when the opposing team shows up?
KK
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:57:37 +0000, KK wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:54:31 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:56:59 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:06 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't
>>>>>>> even know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man
>>>>>>> lies.
>>>>>
>>>>> And here's Furball to prove you right:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
>>>
>>> I just agreed your craps was nothing but straw man lies. Looks like a
>>> denial to me.
>>
>> What specifically is a "straw man lie"? Do you believe liberals do
>> *not* feel more entitled to tax me?
>
> I believe in a progressive tax system. I've no idea how that would
> affect you, but if you're a typical trailer-park Republican, you would
> benefit from it.
You didn't answer the question. You called me a liar, and I asked which
of my statements were "straw man lies".
The tax system as it is now is progressive, so it's silly to talk about
how that "would" affect me. And, though you keep repeating that I'm a
Republican over and over again, like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, as I've
said repeatedly, I'm not.
And as far as my "benefiting" from it, that's not the point, and
something isn't "right" or "moral" because it benefits the many at the
expense of the few. It's immoral to confiscate half of someone's
earnings, or half of an entrepreneur or small businessman's profit, or a
quarter or a third of someone's capital investment profit. It's also
stupid, because it disincentivizes work, investment, and risk.
I believed that when I made minumim wage. I believed that when I made
*sub* minumum wage working for tips, and I believe it now - no more and
no less - that I buy Porsche 911 turbos for Uncle Sam every year.
>
> Do you really deny that their
>> policies tend more toward government "taking care" of its citizens?
>
> Wow. You sure changed the phrasing on THAT one? Do you always move the
> goalposts like that when the opposing team shows up?
I said that liberals believe in government sovereignity over the
individual, evidenced by things like proposals for a compulsory health
care system to replace one that most are satisfied with to provide for
those who aren't.
Point out my lie or shut up.
5292 Dead, 425 since 1/20/09
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:29:29 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09 wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:57:37 +0000, KK wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:54:31 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:56:59 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:55:06 -0600, 5279 Dead, 412 since 1/20/09
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:06:46 +0000, KK wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:12:07 +0000, Doug Bashford wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fact is, in reality most Republicans are Liberals and they don't
>>>>>>>> even know it. What they hate about Liberalism are just straw man
>>>>>>>> lies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And here's Furball to prove you right:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Furball"? I notice you don't deign to deny anything I said.
>>>>
>>>> I just agreed your craps was nothing but straw man lies. Looks like
>>>> a denial to me.
>>>
>>> What specifically is a "straw man lie"? Do you believe liberals do
>>> *not* feel more entitled to tax me?
>>
>> I believe in a progressive tax system. I've no idea how that would
>> affect you, but if you're a typical trailer-park Republican, you would
>> benefit from it.
>
> You didn't answer the question. You called me a liar, and I asked which
> of my statements were "straw man lies".
Of the ones you've since clipped from the exchange?
>
> The tax system as it is now is progressive, so it's silly to talk about
> how that "would" affect me. And, though you keep repeating that I'm a
> Republican over and over again, like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, as I've
> said repeatedly, I'm not.
>
Uh huh. Yeah, we get a lot of "independents", "concerned citizens" and
the like who spout the party line. Nothing new there.
> And as far as my "benefiting" from it, that's not the point, and
> something isn't "right" or "moral" because it benefits the many at the
> expense of the few. It's immoral to confiscate half of someone's
> earnings, or half of an entrepreneur or small businessman's profit, or a
> quarter or a third of someone's capital investment profit. It's also
> stupid, because it disincentivizes work, investment, and risk.
>
Actually, it IS the point. If you aren't supporting your own best
interests, then you're a fool. Taxation is NOT immoral, but an intregal
part of any developed nation. What IS immoral is to let the wealthy
control the legislative process through legalized bribes and the bizarre
declaration that businesses have the same rights as individuals, and let
them decide what we get to have after they're done. That leaves you with
hundreds of millions of people just getting by even as they produce
unimaginable wealth that is given to others. THAT'S immoral.
> I believed that when I made minumim wage. I believed that when I made
> *sub* minumum wage working for tips, and I believe it now - no more and
> no less - that I buy Porsche 911 turbos for Uncle Sam every year.
>
>
You buy Porsch 911 turbos for Uncle Sam every year?
Well, whatever they're paying you they should tax 100%, because you're
cheating them. Uncle Sam doesn't have any 911s...
KK
You go ahead and tell me which lies you were referring to. You blowhard
douchebags make all sorts of blathering accusations, then not only refuse
to back them up, you won't even clarify what they *are*.
>>
>> The tax system as it is now is progressive, so it's silly to talk about
>> how that "would" affect me. And, though you keep repeating that I'm a
>> Republican over and over again, like Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, as
>> I've said repeatedly, I'm not.
>>
> Uh huh. Yeah, we get a lot of "independents", "concerned citizens" and
> the like who spout the party line. Nothing new there.
Fuck you for being so blindered you think there are only two ways to
think - your way and the wrong way. I've never voted for a Republican
presidential candidate, and when I've voted D or R they've been in
roughly equal numbers.
I'm a well-educated, free-thinking person who is as quick to criticize
the GOP as I am the Democrats, and you're an ignorant, head-in-the-sand,
fool for rejecting everyone whose opinion isn't in lockstep with yours.
>
>> And as far as my "benefiting" from it, that's not the point, and
>> something isn't "right" or "moral" because it benefits the many at the
>> expense of the few. It's immoral to confiscate half of someone's
>> earnings, or half of an entrepreneur or small businessman's profit, or
>> a quarter or a third of someone's capital investment profit. It's also
>> stupid, because it disincentivizes work, investment, and risk.
>>
> Actually, it IS the point. If you aren't supporting your own best
> interests, then you're a fool. Taxation is NOT immoral,
At some level, it is. I say that both the percentage or absolute dollar
amount I pay qualify as immoral. Also, that those taxes are spent the
way they are, and divvied up as political favors, is immoral.
> but an intregal
> part of any developed nation. What IS immoral is to let the wealthy
> control the legislative process through legalized bribes
I am as angry about that as you are. I am 100% for term limits to keep
these jackasses from devoting their time in office to collecting bribes
to get ready for the next election.
> and the bizarre
> declaration that businesses have the same rights as individuals,
It's bizarre because it's not true.
> and let
> them decide what we get to have after they're done. That leaves you
> with hundreds of millions of people just getting by even as they produce
> unimaginable wealth that is given to others. THAT'S immoral.
The poor create the wealth that's "given" to others? How's that?
>> I believed that when I made minumim wage. I believed that when I made
>> *sub* minumum wage working for tips, and I believe it now - no more and
>> no less - that I buy Porsche 911 turbos for Uncle Sam every year.
>>
>>
> You buy Porsch 911 turbos for Uncle Sam every year?
I give him more than enough to buy a nicely equipped one, yes.
> Well, whatever they're paying you they should tax 100%, because you're
> cheating them. Uncle Sam doesn't have any 911s...
You must be really fun at parties.
>>
>>> Do you really deny that their
>>>> policies tend more toward government "taking care" of its citizens?
>>>
>>> Wow. You sure changed the phrasing on THAT one? Do you always move
>>> the goalposts like that when the opposing team shows up?
>>
>> I said that liberals believe in government sovereignity over the
>> individual, evidenced by things like proposals for a compulsory health
>> care system to replace one that most are satisfied with to provide for
>> those who aren't.
>>
>>
>> Point out my lie or shut up.
>>
(chirp chirp chirp)