To Mr Patterson
Joseph
Quote
There are two great books on Heinlein and Crowley, one whose author
I've forgotten is called THE MAN WHO INVENTED THE FUTURE and the other
is SEX AND ROCKETS by Robert Anton Wilson (of ILLUMINATUS fame).
Both recount how prior to Crowley's death in 1947 John Whiteside
Parsons of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (where all of the US
Goverment's rockets were developed) Heinlein and L. Ron Hubbard along
with their various women (I hate how sexist that sounds but in the
context of the place it's accurate) lived together communally in a
house near Cal Tech under the auspices of Crowley's agape OTO. There
was a lot of wife swapping and there were orgies and psychedelic drug
experiments and a lot of the sort of thing that would become more or
less common in the counter culture twenty years later. When Crowley
passed on to some other plane of existence (i.e. died) Heinlein and
Hubbard got into an intense competition over who would take over.
Hubbard's bid was to write Dianetics and to invent Scientology while
Heinlein's was to write STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND and to create the
Church of All Worlds. CAW is every bit as alive as Scientology but
since CAW is made up of individual "nests" each with our own way of
doing things each as individual as any other family groups we're not a
big scary organised cult just very very loosely organised groups of
people who choose to make our own living arrangements in our own way.
Parsons himself was blown up in 1950 or so by one of the explosive
devices he was inventing. Incidentally Parsons was the real life model
for Gomez Addams and the reason that Gomez was always blowing up his
toy trains was because Parsons was of course figuring out how to blow
up real ones for the US military during World War II.
Uncle Fester (with his bald head and monk's robe) was of course
inspired by Crowley.
Unquote
Is this true or real? Just curious.
Joseph M
Bill Patterson
Short answer: somebody has a fevered imagination, though there are
some bits of this that come close to what was actually going on, in a
glancing sort of way, the bits happened at different times and didn't
interact the way he/she has imagined them..
For example, Parsons and Heinlein knew each other starting in about
1939 or 1940 (for a kind of fictionalized view of that particular
prewar social group, see Anthony Boucher's Rocket to the Morgue).
Heinlein and Parsons never lived together (or even in the same city
for that matter).. As for orgies -- well, Parsons was indeed a sex
magic practitioner after the War, but the description given above is a
lot of hooey. Nobody could do sex magic under those circumstances.
The bit about a competition to take over Dianetics is laughably made
up. The very most that may have happened is that during the War when
Heinlein and Hubbard were thrown together by a Kamikaze think tank in
Philadelphia, Heinlein may have made some remarks about a couple of
his prewar stories that talk about the special privileges religions
are granted under U.S. Law. Ten years later (late 1954, early 1955),
Hubbard remembered this when his Dianetics organization was in trouble
with the AMA and the government (he apparently credited the idea to
Heinlein, though this is less clear), and put it to practical use in
setting up the Founding Church of Scientology.
Heinlein and Hubbard did live together in the same house for a few
months in late 1945, when the Heinleins were taking in friends because
of the housing shortage in LA, and Hubbard did later move to Parsons'
house in Pasadena -- a whole nother story.
To give you an idea of just how loose a grasp this person has on the
facts, Robert Anton Wilson did write an introduction for Sex and
Rockets, but the author was Jack Carter. That particular book is a
little disorganized and doesn't really understand any of the subject
matter it talks about. Much better is George Pendle's more recent
Strange Angel -- though he still doesn't understand the sex magic, or
science fiction fandom for that matter, but on the rocketry it's first
rate.
The Church of All Worlds was the creation of Tim Zell, and other than
some correspondence with the Zells in the early 1970's and receiving
their magazine, Green Egg, Heinlein never had any other contact with
the CAW.
So -- fevered imagination and a lot of made-up crap.
jeanette
hearing the term.
Jeanette
James Nicoll
jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
>I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? I don't remember ever
>hearing the term.
Exactly what it says on the label.
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
Bill Patterson
> In article <29129-4B30F3FE-4...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>,
>
> jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? �I don't remember ever
> >hearing the term.
>
> � � � � Exactly what it says on the label.
>
> defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
What he said.
You have to forget the categories you hear Christians or the Christian-
oriented talking about such subjects; there is an Agenda there that is
being served, and it doesn't have anything to do with accurate
description.
Aside from Gardnerian Wicca (which also has a sexual component) there
are some strains of (mostly hermetic) magickal theory that concentrate
on focusing sexual energy as part of the working. Magick in general
(the extra "k" was introduced by Aleister Crowley to distinguish from
other kinds) works by focusing the will on generating some real-world
effect. There is a long and complicated theoretical tradition about
sex rituals and so forth. A lot of workings require sex magic as part
of the rituals.
David M. Silver
<3cfe45f0-909a-4afc...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Bill Patterson <whpat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 22, 8:42?am, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> > In article <29129-4B30F3FE-4...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>,
> >
> > jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > >I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? ?I don't remember ever
> > >hearing the term.
> >
> > ? ? ? ? Exactly what it says on the label.
> >
> > --http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicollhttp://www.cafepress.com/jdni
> > coll(For all your "The problem with
> > defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
>
> What he said.
>
> You have to forget the categories you hear Christians or the Christian-
> oriented talking about such subjects; there is an Agenda there that is
> being served, and it doesn't have anything to do with accurate
> description.
>
> Aside from Gardnerian Wicca (which also has a sexual component) there
> are some strains of (mostly hermetic) magickal theory that concentrate
> on focusing sexual energy as part of the working. Magick in general
> (the extra "k" was introduced by Aleister Crowley to distinguish from
> other kinds) works by focusing the will on generating some real-world
> effect. There is a long and complicated theoretical tradition about
> sex rituals and so forth. A lot of workings require sex magic as part
> of the rituals.
Somewhat more than simply Crowley may be found here, fwiw:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic
--
David M. Silver
http://www.heinleinsociety.org
"The Lieutenant expects your names to shine!"
Robert Anson Heinlein, USNA '29
Lt.(jg), USN, R'td
Raxon
Llewellyn's _Druids_.
On Dec 23, 11:29 am, "David M. Silver" <ag.plus...@verizon.net> wrote:
> In article
> <3cfe45f0-909a-4afc-9045-c2fc17922...@u36g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> Bill Patterson <whpatter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 22, 8:42?am, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> > > In article <29129-4B30F3FE-4...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>,
>
> > > jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > > >I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? ?I don't remember ever
> > > >hearing the term.
>
> > > ? ? ? ? Exactly what it says on the label.
>
> > > --http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicollhttp://www.cafepress.com...
jeanette
I am more familiar with stage magic and that is where my mind went. :-)
Jeanette
Will in New Haven
> Thank you. I have heard of it, but not that phrase.
>
> I am more familiar with stage magic and that is where my mind went. :-)
I remember seeing some sex on stage in Las Vegas last year and I've
seen magic on stage but never sex-magic on stage.
--
Will in New Haven
Bill Patterson
>
> - Show quoted text -
Um -- or Wilson/Shea's Illuminatus trilogy
Bill Patterson
So very MANY places not to go with that . . .
moonstorm
<whpat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 23, 4:25?pm, Will in New Haven
><bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 23, 6:09?pm, wo...@webtv.net (jeanette) wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you. ?I have heard of it, but not that phrase.
>>
>> > I am more familiar with stage magic and that is where my mind went. ?:-)
>>
>> I remember seeing some sex on stage in Las Vegas last year and I've
>> seen magic on stage but never sex-magic on stage.
>>
>> --
>> Will in New Haven
>
>So very MANY places not to go with that . . .
Hey, Bill,
I really liked your post, it was very much in line with what I had
read over the years. And there are so many different spiritual groups
that have practiced sex magic. As far back as pre history indicates
there have been practicioners of magic and sex magic. Lets face it,
the whole agricultural ambiance is really based on sex magic.(It's
mad, it's gay, the lusty month of May!) (Or: Hooray, hooray, the first
of May! Outdoor screwing starts today!) Old Will made a good start in
"Mid Summer Night's Dream", for sure.
Blessed Be In Light, Love and Laughter
MoonStorm
3rd Degree Wiccan Priest
Bill Patterson
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not surprising -- sex is one of the most powerful things we humans
experience, so using it for this kind of thing is a very natural idea
that keeps getting reinvented over and over.
Tian
show that way.
--
Tian
http://tian.greens.org
Latest addition: Peace vigil with story about an element of truth.
mimi
> On Dec 22, 8:42 am, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
> > In article <29129-4B30F3FE-4...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>,
>
> > jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > >I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? I don't remember ever
> > >hearing the term.
>
> > Exactly what it says on the label.
>
> > defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
>
> What he said.
>
> You have to forget the categories you hear Christians or the Christian-
> oriented talking about such subjects; there is an Agenda there that is
> being served, and it doesn't have anything to do with accurate
> description.
>
> Aside from Gardnerian Wicca (which also has a sexual component) there
> are some strains of (mostly hermetic) magickal theory that concentrate
> on focusing sexual energy as part of the working. Magick in general
> (the extra "k" was introduced by Aleister Crowley to distinguish from
> other kinds) works by focusing the will on generating some real-world
> effect. There is a long and complicated theoretical tradition about
> sex rituals and so forth. A lot of workings require sex magic as part
> of the rituals.
A book by Steve Englehart, _The Point Man_ , novelizes sex magick
rather fulsomely.
mimi
Bill Patterson
> On Dec 23 2009, 8:55�am, Bill Patterson <whpatter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 22, 8:42 am, jdnic...@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
> > > In article <29129-4B30F3FE-4...@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net>,
>
> > > jeanette <wo...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > > >I'm almost afraid to ask but what is "sex magic"? I don't remember ever
> > > >hearing the term.
>
> > > Exactly what it says on the label.
>
> > > defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
>
> > What he said.
>
> > You have to forget the categories you hear Christians or the Christian-
> > oriented talking about such subjects; there is an Agenda there that is
> > being served, and it doesn't have anything to do with accurate
> > description.
>
> > Aside from Gardnerian Wicca (which also has a sexual component) there
> > are some strains of (mostly hermetic) magickal theory that concentrate
> > on focusing sexual energy as part of the working. �Magick in general
> > (the extra "k" was introduced by Aleister Crowley to distinguish from
> > other kinds) works by focusing the will on generating some real-world
> > effect. �There is a long and complicated theoretical tradition about
> > sex rituals and so forth. A lot of workings require sex magic as part
> > of the rituals.
>
> A book by Steve Englehart, _The Point Man_ , novelizes sex magick
> rather fulsomely.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'll keep an eye out for it,.Thanks. So, by the way, does Aleister
Crowley's novel Mooncalf.