HBP Chapter 18 Re-read
W. F. Zimmerman
Slughorn to Harry on the bezoar: "You've got nerve, lad, ... you're
***like your mother***!"
Apart from throwing herself to her death to save her infant son, what
else have we seen Lily do that was nerveful? I guess reforming &
marrying James could fall under that heading. The bottom line is that
even though we have finished book six, Harry & we still know very, very
little about Lily Potter.
A bit surprised that the Anglicism "something that looked like cat
sick" made it through the Americanese translator, but I suppose
changing it to "cat barf" wouldn't have added much.
When Ron winces at the sound of the name "Voldemort", Harry says
impatiently to him, "Oh, will you get a **grip**!" This underlines for
us that Harry is really a very, very advanced DADA student -- Dd being
the only adult DADA practitioner who can say "that name" with the same
ease.
Awkward question, though: why don't harry & Dd call Voldemort "Riddle"?
Isn't it giving lord V just the power he craves to even recognize this
special and *completely made up* name that Tom Marvolo Riddle. coined
for himself?
Harry points out that when he wants his friends to stand lookout, he
tells them why. This respect for others is what differentiates him
from Malfoy.
Slughorn can be a very pleasant man when he is in a good mood -- it is
really quite Christian of him to invite Malfoy into the party.
Again Harry is more perceptive than his elders when he realizes the
vital split second before Slughorn that something is wrong with Ron on
swallowing the mead. We see how Harry has been trained to hair-trigger
perception and response.
And as the chapter ends we realize that the tragic death of Ron Weasley
will be the centerpiece of book six ...
W. F. Zimmerman
Kish
> When Ron winces at the sound of the name "Voldemort", Harry says
> impatiently to him, "Oh, will you get a **grip**!" This underlines for
> us that Harry is really a very, very advanced DADA student -- Dd being
> the only adult DADA practitioner who can say "that name" with the same
> ease.
No, just that he's the only person other than Dumbledore to recognize
unwillingness to say Voldemort's name as superstition. There has never
been an indication that real magic prevents anyone from saying
Voldemort's name--people are just afraid to.
zgirnius
W. F. Zimmerman wrote:
> Apart from throwing herself to her death to save her infant son, what
> else have we seen Lily do that was nerveful? I guess reforming &
> marrying James could fall under that heading. The bottom line is that
> even though we have finished book six, Harry & we still know very, very
> little about Lily Potter.
zgirnius:
Perhaps another nervy action on her part was to involve herself in the
Snape-baiting incident we saw in the Pensieve scene of OotP.
Maestro Muten
> And as the chapter ends we realize that the tragic death of Ron Weasley
> will be the centerpiece of book six ...
But he does not die in book six!
--
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che sono stati pietrificati da Windows.
Tuttavia, il suo uso prolungato puņ portare il PC a rallentamenti.
Si consiglia in questi casi un'ottima cura a base di Slackware.
Ard Rhi
"W. F. Zimmerman" <w...@wfzimmerman.com> wrote in message
news:1126635966.9...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Birthday Surprises ...
>
> Slughorn to Harry on the bezoar: "You've got nerve, lad, ... you're
> ***like your mother***!"
>
> Apart from throwing herself to her death to save her infant son, what
> else have we seen Lily do that was nerveful? I guess reforming &
> marrying James could fall under that heading. The bottom line is that
> even though we have finished book six, Harry & we still know very, very
> little about Lily Potter.
Likely Rowling does that for a reason. The more we know about a person, the
more we have to see weaknesses as well as strengths. So far Rowling has
gotten away with Lily being just a perfect mother and woman. So less is more
in this case.
> A bit surprised that the Anglicism "something that looked like cat
> sick" made it through the Americanese translator, but I suppose
> changing it to "cat barf" wouldn't have added much.
With each passing book, Rowling's success earns her a fair amount of say in
what remains in her book and what doesn't.
> When Ron winces at the sound of the name "Voldemort", Harry says
> impatiently to him, "Oh, will you get a **grip**!" This underlines for
> us that Harry is really a very, very advanced DADA student -- Dd being
> the only adult DADA practitioner who can say "that name" with the same
> ease.
I believe that is because Harry wasn't raised to fear the name as Ron was.
Which is it why it is more amazing that Rowling has taken to having Hermione
be a bit squeamish of the name, as well. I believe Harry noted that Lupin
also freely uses the name without flinching, however.
> Awkward question, though: why don't harry & Dd call Voldemort "Riddle"?
> Isn't it giving lord V just the power he craves to even recognize this
> special and *completely made up* name that Tom Marvolo Riddle. coined
> for himself?
When Riddle wanted to be known as Voldemort, Dumbledore continued to call
him as Tom. Now that Voldemort prefers to be "nameless", I think it suits
both Harry and Albus to refer to him as Voldemort. It comes out to the same
thing in that they both don't fear the name and choose how to see him.
> Harry points out that when he wants his friends to stand lookout, he
> tells them why. This respect for others is what differentiates him
> from Malfoy.
Harry doesn't have someone such as Severus looking into his actions,
ironically. I suspect Draco would've been more forthcoming with others
helping him if he felt he could trust them. However, that is a disadvantage
to being a Death Eater now isn't it? On the other hand, Harry also keeps
certain information such as the content of his lessons with Dumbledore from
McGonagall and Scrimgeour so perhaps they're not so different after all.
> Slughorn can be a very pleasant man when he is in a good mood -- it is
> really quite Christian of him to invite Malfoy into the party.
I like Slughorn. He is one of the few intriguing and redeeming members of
the house of Slytherin shown in the series.
> Again Harry is more perceptive than his elders when he realizes the
> vital split second before Slughorn that something is wrong with Ron on
> swallowing the mead. We see how Harry has been trained to hair-trigger
> perception and response.
Yes and no. While Harry is definitely more alert than the average wizard,
the circumstances were all in his favor to catch that one faster than
Slughorn.
> And as the chapter ends we realize that the tragic death of Ron Weasley
> will be the centerpiece of book six ...
.... riiight.
Ard Rhi
W. F. Zimmerman
> will be the centerpiece of book six ...
.... riiight
> I was joking...
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
> When Ron winces at the sound of the name "Voldemort", Harry says
> impatiently to him, "Oh, will you get a **grip**!"
Harry echoed what Hermione said, when Rita jumped at her saying the name.
> This underlines for us that Harry is really a very, very advanced DADA
> student -- Dumbledore being the only adult DADA practitioner who can say
> "that name" with the same ease.
You don't have to be an advanced DADA practitioner to say Voldemort's
name. Here are the b1-6 scores for other people who have said it...
1 Fudge, Ginny, Hagrid, Moody, Peter
2 Crouch, Quirrell
3 McGonagall
11 Remus, Riddle
28 Hermione
36 Sirius
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
--
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Alex Clark
Maestro Muten wrote:
> W. F. Zimmerman ha scritto:
>
> > And as the chapter ends we realize that the tragic death of Ron Weasley
> > will be the centerpiece of book six ...
>
> But he does not die in book six!
Of course not; that's in book seven. But the point was that it looks
like he's dying.
--
Alex Clark
I am Lord Overt Mold
st...@watson.ibm.com
Ard Rhi wrote:
...
>
> > Harry points out that when he wants his friends to stand lookout, he
> > tells them why. This respect for others is what differentiates him
> > from Malfoy.
>
> Harry doesn't have someone such as Severus looking into his actions,
> ironically. I suspect Draco would've been more forthcoming with others
> helping him if he felt he could trust them. However, that is a disadvantage
> to being a Death Eater now isn't it? On the other hand, Harry also keeps
> certain information such as the content of his lessons with Dumbledore from
> McGonagall and Scrimgeour so perhaps they're not so different after all.
>
But McGonagall and Scrimgeour are "authorities", not Harry's friends,
and Harry wasn't asking them to do favors at the same time
as he was withholding information, so I think that
is a difference. Malfoy was showing
aristocratic arrogance: treating his supposed peers like servants.
--
Rob Strom
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
> I believe that is because Harry wasn't raised to fear the name as Ron was.
> Which is it why it is more amazing that Rowling has taken to having
> Hermione be a bit squeamish of the name, as well.
Then don't be amazed, since you're mistaken. After an initial hesitation
Hermione began saying "Voldemort" with relish; in the last two books she
has said the name 28 times, far more than anyone else but Harry & DD.
W. F. Zimmerman
Louis Epstein
:
: When Ron winces at the sound of the name "Voldemort", Harry says
: impatiently to him, "Oh, will you get a **grip**!" This underlines for
: us that Harry is really a very, very advanced DADA student -- Dd being
: the only adult DADA practitioner who can say "that name" with the same
: ease.
No,this tells us nothing but Harry's attitude toward the
superstition of not saying the name...frankly,I would expect
Muggle-borns to be resistant to this as a rule,as only the
wizarding world teaches anyone not to say it...I don't know
why Dumbledore encourages teaching not to say it to go on
under the Hogwarts roof.
: Awkward question, though: why don't harry & Dd call Voldemort "Riddle"?
: Isn't it giving lord V just the power he craves to even recognize this
: special and *completely made up* name that Tom Marvolo Riddle. coined
: for himself?
Very true...and I think the Ministry should make V's real name
and history as public as possible.
:
: And as the chapter ends we realize that the tragic death of Ron Weasley
: will be the centerpiece of book six ...
Cedric died in book four,Sirius in book five,Dumbledore in book six,
if Ron's turn to die comes it will be in book seven.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen
> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
>> Ard Rhi wrote:
> It is amazing that Rowling has taken to having
> Hermione be a bit squeamish of the name.
Then don't be amazed, since you're mistaken. After an initial hesitation
Hermione began saying "Voldemort" with relish; in the last two books she
has said the name 28 times, far more than anyone else but Harry & DD.
> Did you really count them? Great job!
Thanks! I didn't count them, a WP macro did. Here they all are...
b5 ch15 (HG): "Harry," she said timidly, "don't you see? This ... this
is exactly why we need you ... we need to know what it's r-really like
... facing him ... facing V-Voldemort."
b5 ch16 (HG): "Well," said Hermione, looking a mite anxious again. "Well
... now, don't fly off the handle again, Harry, please ... but I really
think you ought to teach anyone who wants to learn. I mean, we're
talking about defending ourselves against V-Voldemort. Oh, don't be
pathetic, Ron. It doesn't seem fair if we don't offer the chance to
other people."
b5 ch16 (HG): "The trouble is," she said to Harry, "until V-Voldemort --
oh, for heaven's ~sake~, Ron -- comes out into the open, Sirius is going
to have to stay hidden, isn't he? I mean, the stupid Ministry isn't
going to realise Sirius is innocent until they accept that Dumbledore's
been telling the truth about him all along. And once the fools start
catching real Death Eaters again, it'll be obvious Sirius isn't one ...
I mean, he hasn't got the Mark, for one thing."
b5 ch16 (HG): "Of course I do," said Hermione at once. "But more than
that, I want to be properly trained in defence because ... because ..."
she took a great breath and finished, "because Lord Voldemort is back."
b5 ch16 (HG): "I'm sure we can find a night that suits everyone," said
Hermione, slightly impatiently, "but you know, this is rather important,
we're talking about learning to defend ourselves against V-Voldemort's
Death Eaters --"
b5 ch23 (HG): "Harry you've had these dreams before," Hermione said.
"You had flashes of what Voldemort was up to last year."
b5 ch23 (HG): "One day," said Hermione, sounding thoroughly exasperated,
"you'll read 'Hogwarts: A History', and perhaps it will remind you that
you can't Apparate or Disapparate inside Hogwarts. Even Voldemort
couldn't just make you fly out of your dormitory, Harry."
b5 ch24 (HG): "Dumbledore wants to stop you having those dreams about
Voldemort," said Hermione at once. "Well, you won't be sorry not to have
them any more, will you?"
b5 ch25 (HG): "What other options does he have?" said Hermione bitterly.
"He can hardly say, 'Sorry, everyone, Dumbledore warned me this might
happen, the Azkaban guards have joined Lord Voldemort' -- stop
~whimpering~, Ron -- 'and now Voldemort's worst supporters have broken
out, too.' I mean, he's spent a good six months telling everyone you and
Dumbledore are liars, hasn't he?"
b5 ch25 (HG): "Yes, I do," said Hermione. "The true story. All the
facts. Exactly as Harry reports them. He'll give you all the details,
he'll tell you the names of the undiscovered Death Eaters he saw there,
he'll tell you what Voldemort looks like now -- oh, get a grip on
yourself," she added contemptuously, throwing a napkin across the table,
for, at the sound of Voldemort's name, Rita had jumped so badly she had
slopped half her glass of Firewhisky down herself.
b5 ch26 (HG): "Sturgis Podmore --" said Hermione breathlessly, "arrested
for trying to get through a door! Lucius Malfoy must have got him too! I
bet he did it the day you saw him there, Harry. Sturgis had Moody's
Invisibility Cloak, right? So, what if he was standing guard by the
door, invisible, and Malfoy heard him move -- or guessed someone was
there -- or just did the Imperius curse on the off-chance there'd be a
guard there? So, when Sturgis next had an opportunity -- probably when
it was his turn on guard duty again -- he tried to get into the
Department to steal the weapon for Voldemort -- Ron, be quiet -- but he
got caught and sent to Azkaban ..."
b5 ch26 (HG): "And now Rookwood's told Voldemort how to get the weapon?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "Harry," said Hermione in a rather frightened voice, "er
... how ... how did Voldemort get into the Ministry of Magic without
anybody realising he was there?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "But ... Harry, think about this," said Hermione, taking a
step towards him, "it's five o'clock in the afternoon ... the Ministry
of Magic must be full of workers ... how would Voldemort and Sirius have
got in without being seen? Harry ... they're probably the two most
wanted wizards in the world ... you think they could get into a building
full of Aurors undetected?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "But this is just -- just so ~unlikely~!" said Hermione
desperately. "Harry, how on earth could Voldemort have got hold of
Sirius when he's been in Grimmauld Place all the time?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "But why," Hermione persisted, "why on earth would
Voldemort want to use ~Sirius~ to get the weapon, or whatever the thing
is?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "Look, I'm sorry," cried Hermione, "but neither of you is
making sense, and we've got no proof for any of this, no proof Voldemort
and Sirius are even there --"
b5 ch32 (HG): "I'm trying to say -- Voldemort knows you, Harry! He took
Ginny down into the Chamber of Secrets to lure you there, it's the kind
of thing he does, he knows you're the -- the sort of person who'd go to
Sirius's aid! What if he's just trying to get ~you~ into the Department
of Myst-?"
b5 ch32 (HG): "But if this is a trick of Voldemort's, Harry, we've got
to check, we've got to."
b6 ch5 (HG): "We wondered, after we got back from the Ministry ...
obviously, we didn't want to say anything to you, but from what Lucius
Malfoy said about the prophesy, how it was about you and Voldemort,
well, we thought it might be something like this ... oh, Harry ..." She
stared at him, then whispered, "Are you scared?"
b6 ch9 (HG): "Yes, when you were telling us what it's like to face
Voldemort. You said it wasn't just memorising a bunch of spells, you
said it was just you and your brains and your guts -- well, wasn't that
what Snape was saying? That it really comes down to being brave and
quick-thinking?"
b6 ch11 (HG): "Everyone knows you've been telling the truth now, don't
they? The whole Wizarding world has had to admit that you were right
about Voldemort being back and that you really have fought him twice in
the last two years and escaped both times. And now they're calling you
'the Chosen One' -- well, come on, can't you see why people are
fascinated by you?"
b6 ch14 (HG): "I think it's fascinating," said Hermione earnestly. "It
makes absolute sense to know as much about Voldemort as possible. How
else will you find out his weaknesses?"
b6 ch16 (HG): "I've been living among my fellows, my equals," said
Lupin. "Werewolves," he added, at Harry's look of incomprehension.
"Nearly all of them are on Voldemort's side. Dumbledore wanted a spy and
here I was ... ready-made."
b6 ch17 (HG): "Hmm ... did either of them actually mention Voldemort's
name?"
b6 ch18 (HG): "They must be really advanced Dark magic, or why would
Voldemort have wanted to know about them? I think it's going to be
difficult to get the information, Harry, you'll have to be very careful
about how you approach Slughorn, think out a strategy ..."
b6 ch22 (HG): "Harry, you've got to get that memory," she said. "It's
all about stopping Voldemort, isn't it? These dreadful things that are
happening are all down to him ..."
b6 ch30 (HG): "No," she said sadly, "I've been trying, Harry, but I
haven't found anything ... there are a couple of reasonably well-known
wizards with those initials -- Rosalind Antigone Bungs ... Rupert
'Axebanger' Brookstanton ... but they don't seem to fit at all. Judging
by that note, the person who stole the Horcrux knew Voldemort, and I
can't find a shred of evidence that Bungs or Axebanger ever had anything
to do with him ... no, actually, it's about ... well, Snape."