PoA question - I checked in google first, honest!
Miranda
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I saw a previous thread where this question about PoA was asked (I
paraphrase):
"At the Whomping Willow, why did dog-Sirius jump on Harry first,
before turning around and going for Ron?"
I eagerly scanned the remainder of the thread for an answer. Nothing
was forthcoming.
Now, obviously JKR wanted first-time readers to believe the dog was
evil and after Harry, not Peter, at that point. But all Sirius' and
dog-Sirius' other threatening behaviour is neatly explained later on,
by the fact that he was after Peter (e.g. going to Ron's bed in the
dorm with a knife). But in this instance - attacking Harry - that
explanation alone doesn't suffice.
The text does not imply to me that Harry was standing between Ron and
Sirius by the Willow, so it's not that Harry was in the way. Was
dog-Sirius maybe trying to stun (small 's', not magical Stun) and
disorientate Harry, as he knew Harry-son-of-James would fight to
protect his friend Ron and hence, unknowingly, Peter?
Any other ideas? I am starting to obsess about this silly matter, and
want to know if I'm on the wrong track.
Thanks
Miranda
John Hancock
I don't blame you for being cautious.
I always thought that Sirius in dog form was simply knocking Harry to
the ground to preventing him getting walloped by the whomping willow!
I could be wrong?!
Lets see what happens huh!
John
On 13 Jun 2002 05:59:23 -0700, mir...@mschumacher.com (Miranda)
wrote:
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David Hecht
Miranda wrote:
> Hi - cautious newbie here
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> But in this instance - attacking Harry - that
> explanation alone doesn't suffice.
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> Any other ideas? I am starting to obsess about this silly matter, and
> want to know if I'm on the wrong track.
>
> Thanks
> Miranda
Well, obsession is the keyword, Miranda. Sirius is so obsessed with
gaining revenge on Peter that he is willing to hurt Ron -- and even
inadvertently Harry -- to get to Peter. I got the impression that he
knocked Harry down just because he overshot his leap. Even a cat or dog
will sometimes do something clumsy due to excitement.
Cheers,
David H.
Andy Platt
> One question that I have about the scene in the shrieking shack:
> Harry had his wand raised, ready to kill Black. He even considered
> killing Crookshanks as well as he lay on Black's chest. However, at
> this point in the series I do not believe that Harry knew any curses
> that would take somebody's life. He wasn't exposed to the killing
> curse until GoF. In that scene in GoF when he learns about it he is
> shown to be thinking, "so that was how my parents had died". So how
> was Harry going to kill Black and Crookshanks in the shrieking shack?
>
> I thought perhaps he would use stupefy to stun Black but that would
> not have killed Crookshanks, and he clearly expresses concern when
> Crookshanks jumps on Sirius's chest "over his heart" and even tries to
> shoo the cat away. So it couldn't hae been a simple stunning that he
> planned to do.
I have wondered about this a couple of times (actually every time I read
that section!). I have one theory which is that Sirius doesn't *know* that
Harry couldn't actually perform a curse that would kill him and that Harry
did it as a kind of reflex reaction even though rational thought would have
made him realize he wouldn't be able to do anything.
Andy.
--
I'm not really here - it's just your warped imagination.
Aris Katsaris
"Doug Miller" <doo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b4ghgugn647or93a9...@4ax.com...
>
> One question that I have about the scene in the shrieking shack:
> Harry had his wand raised, ready to kill Black. He even considered
> killing Crookshanks as well as he lay on Black's chest. However, at
> this point in the series I do not believe that Harry knew any curses
> that would take somebody's life.
We don't really know what kind of curses Harry knows - and even simple
spells like lighting a fire (which Hermione already knew how to do since
book I) could be used to kill a person who had no means to defend himself.
Aris Katsaris
Rain Forests
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>
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> Harry had his wand raised, ready to kill Black. He even considered
> killing Crookshanks as well as he lay on Black's chest. However, at
> this point in the series I do not believe that Harry knew any curses
> curse until GoF. In that scene in GoF when he learns about it he is
> shown to be thinking, "so that was how my parents had died". So how
> was Harry going to kill Black and Crookshanks in the shrieking shack?
>
> I thought perhaps he would use stupefy to stun Black but that would
> not have killed Crookshanks, and he clearly expresses concern when
> Crookshanks jumps on Sirius's chest "over his heart" and even tries to
> shoo the cat away. So it couldn't hae been a simple stunning that he
> planned to do.
>
> have I simply forgotten something?
I don't think it is an inconsistency, he really wanted to kill Black, even
if he didn't know any killing curse - and probably he didn't think about
that when this desire came. Sometimes it happens, we say somethings we will
do forgetting that we don't have the capacity to do it
>
Toon
<doo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 13 Jun 2002 05:59:23 -0700, mir...@mschumacher.com (Miranda)
>wrote:
>
>>Hi - cautious newbie here
>>
>>S
>>
>>p
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>>o
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>>i
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>>l
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>>e
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>>r
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>>s
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>>p
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>>a
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>>e
>>
>>I saw a previous thread where this question about PoA was asked (I
>>paraphrase):
>>
>>"At the Whomping Willow, why did dog-Sirius jump on Harry first,
>>before turning around and going for Ron?"
>One question that I have about the scene in the shrieking shack:
>Harry had his wand raised, ready to kill Black. He even considered
>killing Crookshanks as well as he lay on Black's chest. However, at
>this point in the series I do not believe that Harry knew any curses
>that would take somebody's life. He wasn't exposed to the killing
>curse until GoF. In that scene in GoF when he learns about it he is
>shown to be thinking, "so that was how my parents had died". So how
>was Harry going to kill Black and Crookshanks in the shrieking shack?
>
>I thought perhaps he would use stupefy to stun Black but that would
>not have killed Crookshanks, and he clearly expresses concern when
>Crookshanks jumps on Sirius's chest "over his heart" and even tries to
>shoo the cat away. So it couldn't hae been a simple stunning that he
>planned to do.
>
>Have we caught an inconsistency in the storyline? Or (quite likely)
>have I simply forgotten something?
>
>Forgive me for not having consulted google first...
Perhaps Harry figured sheer will alone would suffice. Remember, Harry
has performed magic subconsciously before. He knows that all the
weird stuff that happened was magic. So he could be relying on the
use of magic without a conscious thought/spell to do in Sirius.
Or else it was just instinct to kill, and he simply would have stopped
when his rage subsided due to the fact he had no clue what to do.
Miranda
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John Hancock <see...@hogwarts-alumni.co.uk> wrote in message news:<klahgusjt58nfpngj...@4ax.com>...
<snip>
> I always thought that Sirius in dog form was simply knocking Harry to
> the ground to preventing him getting walloped by the whomping willow!
>
> I could be wrong?!
>
> Lets see what happens huh!
>
> John
I like this idea, as it suggests a kindly Sirius. Then again, even if
he was a bit rough with the kids, he WAS in desperate circumstances at
the time, so we can maybe excuse him.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I am at peace now!
Miranda
PS if there's anyone out there who adores - not just *likes* - both
the Beatles and Harry Potter, please let me know of a support group
:). My friends and bloke don't understand that outrageously popular
books and bands sometimes are deservedly so, and they [my friends]
compare the Fab 4 to Westlife, Backstreet Boys etc...grrr.
Jonathan Buzzard
John Hancock <see...@hogwarts-alumni.co.uk> writes:
> Hi,
>
> I don't blame you for being cautious.
>
> I always thought that Sirius in dog form was simply knocking Harry to
> the ground to preventing him getting walloped by the whomping willow!
I just took it that he knocked Harry to the ground accidentally because
he was in the way. Sirius is making a bee line for Peter who is
in Rons pocket, Harry just happens to get partialy in the way and
gets sent flying as Sirius passes.
Though I wonder why Sirius dragged him all the way to the shack.
Why not transform to a person in the passage and finish Peter off
quickly.
JAB.
--
Jonathan A. Buzzard Email: jona...@buzzard.org.uk
Northumberland, United Kingdom. Tel: +44(0)1661-832195
Andy Platt
> important to him that he explain to Harry exactly why he was doing
> what he was doing. He wanted Harry to witness this so that he could
> prove his innocence to him. Maybe.
That's a good theory but in the story it was Lupin that wanted Harry to know
the story first, Sirius was all for killing Wormtail first and then telling
the story. Although perhaps once Remus arrived, Sirius knew he had someone
to back his story up and only then wanted to finish Pettigrew off early.
Paranutus
"David Hecht" <david...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:3D08B36D...@prodigy.net...
It always appeared rather obvious to me; perhaps I'm missing something.
PoA, pp. 334 (US):
Harry reached for his wand, but too late -- the dog had made an enormous
leap and the front paws hit him on the chest; he keeled over backward in a
whirl of hair; he felt its hot breath saw inch-long teeth --
But the force of its leap had carried it too far; it rolled off him.
Dazed, feeling
as though his ribs were broken, Harry tried to stand up; he could hear it
growling as it skidded around for a new attack.
Ron was on his feet. As the dog sprang back toward them he pushed Harry
aside; the dog's jaws fastened instead around Ron's outstretched arm.
Initially, Sirius knocked Harry down because Harry was reaching for his
wand. The second time, Harry was clearly between Sirius and Ron. Had
Harry not been pushed away, Sirius would've knocked him aside and
gone for Ron.
-Para
Terry Eden
> PS if there's anyone out there who adores - not just *likes* - both
> the Beatles and Harry Potter, please let me know of a support group
> :). My friends and bloke don't understand that outrageously popular
> books and bands sometimes are deservedly so, and they [my friends]
> compare the Fab 4 to Westlife, Backstreet Boys etc...grrr.
*waves* No support group for us yet (don't go near the Beatles' newsgroups -
they're full of trolls and wierdos), but I'm sure we can start one.
hmmm...
Ron is obviously Ringo, Hermione is George, So Paul and John are Harry and
Malfoy... but which one is which...?
Terry
Toon
Buzzard) wrote:
>In article <klahgusjt58nfpngj...@4ax.com>,
> John Hancock <see...@hogwarts-alumni.co.uk> writes:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't blame you for being cautious.
>>
>> I always thought that Sirius in dog form was simply knocking Harry to
>> the ground to preventing him getting walloped by the whomping willow!
>
>
>I just took it that he knocked Harry to the ground accidentally because
>he was in the way. Sirius is making a bee line for Peter who is
>in Rons pocket, Harry just happens to get partialy in the way and
>gets sent flying as Sirius passes.
>
>Though I wonder why Sirius dragged him all the way to the shack.
>Why not transform to a person in the passage and finish Peter off
>quickly.
>
>JAB.
He's a wanted man. He knew he'd be safe in the Shack.
Klaus Winkler
<doo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 13 Jun 2002 05:59:23 -0700, mir...@mschumacher.com (Miranda)
>wrote:
>
>>Hi - cautious newbie here
>>
>>S
>>
>>p
>>
>>o
>>
>>i
>>
>>l
>>
>>e
>>
>>r
>>
>>s
>>
>>p
>>
>>a
>>
>>c
>>
>>e
>>
>>I saw a previous thread where this question about PoA was asked (I
>>paraphrase):
>>
>
>One question that I have about the scene in the shrieking shack:
>Harry had his wand raised, ready to kill Black. He even considered
>killing Crookshanks as well as he lay on Black's chest. However, at
>this point in the series I do not believe that Harry knew any curses
>that would take somebody's life. He wasn't exposed to the killing
>curse until GoF. In that scene in GoF when he learns about it he is
>shown to be thinking, "so that was how my parents had died". So how
>was Harry going to kill Black and Crookshanks in the shrieking shack?
>
Stab him with the pointy end of the wand...
<Buffy>
You'd be surprised how many things that kills
</Buffy>
Regards
Klaus Winkler
--
Looking for a FAQ? http://klauwin.20m.com/hphome.html
Ash nazg durbatulūk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulūk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Miranda
> Miranda wrote:
> > PS if there's anyone out there who adores - not just *likes* - both
> > the Beatles and Harry Potter, please let me know of a support group
> > :). My friends and bloke don't understand that outrageously popular
> > books and bands sometimes are deservedly so, and they [my friends]
> > compare the Fab 4 to Westlife, Backstreet Boys etc...grrr.
>
> *waves* No support group for us yet (don't go near the Beatles' newsgroups -
> they're full of trolls and wierdos), but I'm sure we can start one.
Hi. Yeah, I lurked on r.m.beatles for some time before tiptoe-ing away.
>
> hmmm...
>
> Ron is obviously Ringo, Hermione is George, So Paul and John are Harry and
> Malfoy... but which one is which...?
>
> Terry
Aw, can't Allen Klein be Malfoy? I don't want any of the Beatles to be a baddy.
Neville is Pete Best :)
Ciao
Miranda