People or things of importance in book 7
dc
for the finale.
1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
a major plot device.
2 Chamber of Secrets. Would be surprised if its not at least mentioned
in passing. It should be high up on the list of places to search,
maybe not for a horcrux itself but perhaps Voldemort has left
something behind that Harry can use to his advantage in following the
trail.
3 Buckbeak / Witherwings. I think we will see him again at some stage.
He lived for a reason and I'm sure we find out why..
4 Victor Krum. If memory serves then JKR has said we will see him
again, so perhaps not the greatest leap of faith... but I'm sure he
has a part to play in Deathly Hallows, even if its only forcing Ron to
communicate his feelings. Probably better than 50% chance of dying..
5 The Veil. I'm sure in some way, shape or form we will encounter the
veil again in book 7. Maybe Harry could throw the Horcruxes he
collects through the Veil? That would destroy them without risk to
himself.
6 obvious answer = Snape. 2nd obvious answer = Ginny. 3rd obvious
answer = Pettigrew. Non obvious answer = Trewlawney
Snape is clearly crucial to the whole story. If he is evil, then Harry
will surely meet and defeat Snape before battling Voldemort. If Snape
is good then he will find a way to pass information to Harry that he
couldn't do without.
Ginny is crucial because I think it will be Harry's love for her that
allows him to defeat Voldemort. I can't guess the specifics, but in
some fashion that love will manifest itself and allow Harry to win.
Pettigrew will be important towards the end I think, when he will
somehow repay the life debt he owes to Harry.
I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
to the time and place of the final battle....
just my 2p worth..... you may agree or disagree or have other
theories, lets hear them.
drusilla
> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
> for the finale.
>
> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
> a major plot device.
The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence would
be useless.
> 2 Chamber of Secrets. Would be surprised if its not at least mentioned
> in passing. It should be high up on the list of places to search,
> maybe not for a horcrux itself but perhaps Voldemort has left
> something behind that Harry can use to his advantage in following the
> trail.
Might be.
> 3 Buckbeak / Witherwings. I think we will see him again at some stage.
> He lived for a reason and I'm sure we find out why..
He lived not because he was innocent but also because he helped Sirius
to escape and eventually helped Harry. He might comeback though.
> 4 Victor Krum. If memory serves then JKR has said we will see him
> again, so perhaps not the greatest leap of faith... but I'm sure he
> has a part to play in Deathly Hallows, even if its only forcing Ron to
> communicate his feelings. Probably better than 50% chance of dying..
I think he will be invited to Bill and Fleur's wedding :)
> 5 The Veil. I'm sure in some way, shape or form we will encounter the
> veil again in book 7. Maybe Harry could throw the Horcruxes he
> collects through the Veil? That would destroy them without risk to
> himself.
Agree.
> 6 obvious answer = Snape. 2nd obvious answer = Ginny. 3rd obvious
> answer = Pettigrew. Non obvious answer = Trewlawney
> Snape is clearly crucial to the whole story. If he is evil, then Harry
> will surely meet and defeat Snape before battling Voldemort. If Snape
> is good then he will find a way to pass information to Harry that he
> couldn't do without.
Yes, obvious. If he doesn't appear, well... I can see myself burning my
book :P
> Ginny is crucial because I think it will be Harry's love for her that
> allows him to defeat Voldemort. I can't guess the specifics, but in
> some fashion that love will manifest itself and allow Harry to win.
Agree.
> Pettigrew will be important towards the end I think, when he will
> somehow repay the life debt he owes to Harry.
Agree.
> I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
> to the time and place of the final battle....
I think that at some point we might see that Hogwarts is a little bit of
a chaos and Trewlaney will be around to make things not worst but
somehow funnier :)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
santosh
<snip>
> Snape is clearly crucial to the whole story.
Yes.
> If he is evil, then Harry
> will surely meet and defeat Snape before battling Voldemort.
Not necessarily.
Rowling has already portrayed quintessential evil in the form of
Voldemort. I don't think she do another one with Snape. I think he'll
either turn out to've been ultimately working for the Light side,
(which is what I believe), or be depicted as a "Gray" character,
acting for his purposes and favouring whatever side is most beneficial
for him to favour.
Snape is probably the most complex of Rowling's characters and it
would, IMHO, be a shame if he turned out to be just another mad Dark
Lord. One of the many "messages" that Rowling seems to convey through
the Harry Potter series is that most people are not Black & White
personalities. Snape would bring out this message the best.
> Ginny is crucial because I think it will be Harry's love for her that
> allows him to defeat Voldemort. I can't guess the specifics, but in
> some fashion that love will manifest itself and allow Harry to win.
Doesn't Harry already have enough Love?
[ ... ]
> I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
> to the time and place of the final battle....
God I hope not. We've already had enough prophecies. It's too late in
the day to have another one.
Richard Eney
santosh <santo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>dc wrote:
<snip>
>> I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
>> to the time and place of the final battle....
>
>God I hope not. We've already had enough prophecies. It's too late in
>the day to have another one.
JKR likes number symbolism, and three is more traditional than two.
So I think dc is right, and there is likely to be a third channeled
prophecy from Sybil.
=Tamar
blue
1. Godric's Hollow, because I am so very curious and would like to see Harry
explore it, and discover parts of his past. I think it was probably repaired
so he might find more than you'd think- maybe it's not ruins.
2. The Veil and what's behind the locked door at the Ministry that the
Unspeakables work on/with? How does the Veil work, who's behind it and what
does it do when you fall through it?
3. Fred and George Weasley. They're such pranksters and rebels, and loyal to
friends, Dumbledore, and family. WHAT on Earth will these 2 do? I feel like
their antics will help wreak havoc upon Death Eaters. Can't wait to see what
they have up their sleeves- I sincerely hope their joke shop is not
attacked.
4. Ollivander--where is he? Is he evil?
5. Tonks- I just want to be sure she's as good as she seems.
6. Crookshanks. This part-kneazle has some role to play. And who is Mrs.
Norris exactly? Is she part kneazle too? Or just a cat, or a transfigured
person or result of an irreversible spell?
7. Fawkes- where is he?
8. Goblins and Centaurs, whose side are they on, and has there been any
bribe's at St Mungo's or Gringotts?
9. Dumbledore's portrait. What will it say? Where else can he travel (other
portrait locations- what if he can go to a portrait in Godric's Hollow?
10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
and why he hated James and hates Harry.
11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
dc
> dc escribió:
>
> > A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
> > for the finale.
>
> > 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
> > Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
> > start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
> > horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
> > a major plot device.
>
> The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
> there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
> and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
> there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
> spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence would
> be useless.
Not useless at all. If Harry can see himself holding the missing
horcrux(s) then he at least knows what they look like. Thats a major
head start from where he is right now.
dc
> Well I know what I consider important.
>
> 1. Godric's Hollow, because I am so very curious and would like to see Harry
> explore it, and discover parts of his past. I think it was probably repaired
> so he might find more than you'd think- maybe it's not ruins.
>
unrestored, its the graveyard that Harry needs to visit.
> 2. The Veil and what's behind the locked door at the Ministry that the
> Unspeakables work on/with? How does the Veil work, who's behind it and what
> does it do when you fall through it?
>
I think we find out whats behind that locked door at the Ministry. And
even though I think we will see the veil again, I believe we already
know exactly what it does, but not how. Its a one way ticket to the
afterlife, don't collect $200, don't pass GO.
> 3. Fred and George Weasley. They're such pranksters and rebels, and loyal to
> friends, Dumbledore, and family. WHAT on Earth will these 2 do? I feel like
> their antics will help wreak havoc upon Death Eaters. Can't wait to see what
> they have up their sleeves- I sincerely hope their joke shop is not
> attacked.
>
Seconded.
> 4. Ollivander--where is he? Is he evil?
Don't think so. He wrote to Dumbledore after Harry bought his wand, so
evil is doubtful.
>
> 5. Tonks- I just want to be sure she's as good as she seems.
>
I've never had a suscpicion about Tonks - but I could be wrong!
> 6. Crookshanks. This part-kneazle has some role to play. And who is Mrs.
> Norris exactly? Is she part kneazle too? Or just a cat, or a transfigured
> person or result of an irreversible spell?
>
Definitely agree
> 7. Fawkes- where is he?
>
Obvious answer he comes back and chooses Harry as his new owner/master/
companion. But its anyone's guess.
> 8. Goblins and Centaurs, whose side are they on, and has there been any
> bribe's at St Mungo's or Gringotts?
>
good question. Centaurs are probably out for themselves but if push
comes to shove would fight against the death eaters. Just my opinion.
> 9. Dumbledore's portrait. What will it say? Where else can he travel (other
> portrait locations- what if he can go to a portrait in Godric's Hollow?
>
can't wait to find out.
> 10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
> and why he hated James and hates Harry.
I think its nothing more than a case of hate at first sight.
>
> 11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
I'm sure JKR has said there is something interesting about Lily that
we havent found out about yet. Petunia presumably knows more about the
wizarding world than she has let on, which may answer why she hates it
so much.
>
> 12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
> nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
> than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
> ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
>
> 13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
>
unlikely.
> 14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
hopefully we find out.
>
> 15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
I think he is either pressured into a situation which results in his
death, or he finds it within himself to rebel, which results in his
death :)
Toon
>2 Chamber of Secrets. Would be surprised if its not at least mentioned
>in passing. It should be high up on the list of places to search,
>maybe not for a horcrux itself but perhaps Voldemort has left
>something behind that Harry can use to his advantage in following the
>trail.
JK said we will.
>3 Buckbeak / Witherwings. I think we will see him again at some stage.
>He lived for a reason and I'm sure we find out why..
He helped Sirius escape.
>5 The Veil. I'm sure in some way, shape or form we will encounter the
>veil again in book 7. Maybe Harry could throw the Horcruxes he
>collects through the Veil? That would destroy them without risk to
>himself.
Well, except his scar.
>Ginny is crucial because I think it will be Harry's love for her that
>allows him to defeat Voldemort. I can't guess the specifics, but in
>some fashion that love will manifest itself and allow Harry to win.
Lilyesque sacrifice. Notice the similarities between Ginny and Lily.
>Pettigrew will be important towards the end I think, when he will
>somehow repay the life debt he owes to Harry.
That's one order of the phoenix,. Now we're even. Enjoy you dinner.
Toon
>Snape is probably the most complex of Rowling's characters and it
>would, IMHO, be a shame if he turned out to be just another mad Dark
>Lord. One of the many "messages" that Rowling seems to convey through
>the Harry Potter series is that most people are not Black & White
>personalities. Snape would bring out this message the best.
Perhaps the reason for the color of his undies.
>Doesn't Harry already have enough Love?
You can never have enough people loving you.
Les
> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
> for the finale.
> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
> a major plot device.
The Mirror of Erised is originally designed to reflect the heart's
desire of the viewer, not objective truth. Harry has no idea what
some of the horcruxes are, so the mirror will not be able to show
them, or will show objects that Harry believes/desires to be
horcruxes.
> 2 Chamber of Secrets. Would be surprised if its not at least mentioned
> in passing. It should be high up on the list of places to search,
> maybe not for a horcrux itself but perhaps Voldemort has left
> something behind that Harry can use to his advantage in following the
> trail.
I am personally convinced that Slytherin gave his descendents the
Parseltoungue ability for a reason. Harry's ability helped him open
the Chamber of Secrets. I wouldn't be surprised if Slytherin had
other secrets at Hogwarts, some of which Voldemort may not have
learned.
(stuff deleted)
> Pettigrew will be important towards the end I think, when he will
> somehow repay the life debt he owes to Harry.
Who knows, Pettigrew may switch sides if he discovers a horcrux or two
of Voldemort's, or "inadvertantly" kills his pet snake.
> I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
> to the time and place of the final battle....
It might explain why all the portraits in Dumbledore's office
disapproved with his decision to allow Harry to accompany him in the
locket hunt. Trewlaney visited Dumbledore's office repeatedly during
last summer.
> just my 2p worth..... you may agree or disagree or have other
> theories, lets hear them.
Sure, anything to put my theories on public display, then have JKR
convincingly demolish them before the seventh month dies.
Here is an outlandish prediction you can laugh over: Draco dies, and
his ghost keeps Moaning Myrtle company at Hogwarts.
Kenny
"dc" <dacd...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1175681216.5...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
As DD said in PS/SS, the mirror gives neither knowledge or truth. Therefore
it won't show Harry where the remaining horcrux are, what they are encased
in, and what enchantments are protecting them. If it did, I'm pretty sure
DD would've used it to find where they were hidden instead of spending years
learning Voldemort's history and retracing his steps.
Kenny
Ron Hunter
> On 4 Apr, 08:00, "blue" <wheatcentg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well I know what I consider important.
>>
>> 1. Godric's Hollow, because I am so very curious and would like to see Harry
>> explore it, and discover parts of his past. I think it was probably repaired
>> so he might find more than you'd think- maybe it's not ruins.
>>
> Agree. Although I think the house itself remains in ruins and
> unrestored, its the graveyard that Harry needs to visit.
>
>> 2. The Veil and what's behind the locked door at the Ministry that the
>> Unspeakables work on/with? How does the Veil work, who's behind it and what
>> does it do when you fall through it?
>>
> I think we find out whats behind that locked door at the Ministry. And
> even though I think we will see the veil again, I believe we already
> know exactly what it does, but not how. Its a one way ticket to the
> afterlife, don't collect $200, don't pass GO.
>
>> 3. Fred and George Weasley. They're such pranksters and rebels, and loyal to
>> friends, Dumbledore, and family. WHAT on Earth will these 2 do? I feel like
>> their antics will help wreak havoc upon Death Eaters. Can't wait to see what
>> they have up their sleeves- I sincerely hope their joke shop is not
>> attacked.
>>
> Seconded.
>
>> 4. Ollivander--where is he? Is he evil?
> Don't think so. He wrote to Dumbledore after Harry bought his wand, so
> evil is doubtful.
>
I suspect he has dug a hole and pulled it in after him until Voldemort
is no longer a threat.
>> 5. Tonks- I just want to be sure she's as good as she seems.
>>
> I've never had a suscpicion about Tonks - but I could be wrong!
>
I don't think Tonks is anything other than what she appears to be.
>> 6. Crookshanks. This part-kneazle has some role to play. And who is Mrs.
>> Norris exactly? Is she part kneazle too? Or just a cat, or a transfigured
>> person or result of an irreversible spell?
>>
> Definitely agree
>
Certainly agree that Crookshanks is more than meets the eye.
>> 7. Fawkes- where is he?
>>
> Obvious answer he comes back and chooses Harry as his new owner/master/
> companion. But its anyone's guess.
>
Dumbledore has mentioned that Fawkes likes Harry several times, and I
suspect he will return in book 7. At least I HOPE he does.
>> 8. Goblins and Centaurs, whose side are they on, and has there been any
>> bribe's at St Mungo's or Gringotts?
>>
> good question. Centaurs are probably out for themselves but if push
> comes to shove would fight against the death eaters. Just my opinion.
>
Centaurs are not likely to take sides unless their own survival is
threatened.
Goblins will side with Harry.
>> 9. Dumbledore's portrait. What will it say? Where else can he travel (other
>> portrait locations- what if he can go to a portrait in Godric's Hollow?
>>
> can't wait to find out.
>
I suspect that he can go to any Chocolate Frog Card, giving him a broad
view of the world, and the inside of lots of wallets... Grin.
>> 10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
>> and why he hated James and hates Harry.
> I think its nothing more than a case of hate at first sight.
>
>> 11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
>
> I'm sure JKR has said there is something interesting about Lily that
> we havent found out about yet. Petunia presumably knows more about the
> wizarding world than she has let on, which may answer why she hates it
> so much.
There is every reason to believe that Petunia knows the wizarding world
quite well from living with Lily in the summers. I expect we will learn
how she protected Harry, beyond giving up her life for him.
>> 12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
>> nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
>> than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
>> ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
>>
Peeves is a pain in the ass. Nothing more.
>> 13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
>>
> unlikely.
>> 14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
>
> hopefully we find out.
I suspect we will, but don't know if this will help Harry.
>> 15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
>
> I think he is either pressured into a situation which results in his
> death, or he finds it within himself to rebel, which results in his
> death :)
>
>
I don't give him 10% chance of surviving book 7.
gjw
wrote:
>Well I know what I consider important.
>
>1. Godric's Hollow, because I am so very curious and would like to see Harry
>explore it, and discover parts of his past. I think it was probably repaired
>so he might find more than you'd think- maybe it's not ruins.
Since it was located in a Muggle neighborhood, it's unlikely that they
would let it remain as ruins. A half-destroyed house would be
considered a hazard to local children and an eyesore. They'd either
tear it down or repair it. (At least, that's what would happen here
in the States - I don't know about England...)
But this is Rowling's story, and if she wants to leave it as a ruin,
she can certainly do so.
>2. The Veil and what's behind the locked door at the Ministry that the
>Unspeakables work on/with? How does the Veil work, who's behind it and what
>does it do when you fall through it?
I think I already know about the Veil. Most likely it's simply a
doorway/portal to the Afterlife ("what lies beyond the Veil of
Death..."). Which would mean that the Next World (whatever that might
be: heaven, hell, limbo, hades, Valhalla...?) and its inhabitants is
what's behind it. And passing through it would most likely kill you,
physically, while passing your soul into the Afterlife (although, as I
stated in an earlier message, we can't be sure of that, since taking a
live body into a spiritual realm might have unpredictable results).
>3. Fred and George Weasley. They're such pranksters and rebels, and loyal to
>friends, Dumbledore, and family. WHAT on Earth will these 2 do? I feel like
>their antics will help wreak havoc upon Death Eaters. Can't wait to see what
>they have up their sleeves- I sincerely hope their joke shop is not
>attacked.
It would be nice to see their insane tricks turned against real bad
guys for once... ;) But I worry about the survival of all
Weasleys... I'm sure that at least one Weasley is doomed.
>4. Ollivander--where is he? Is he evil?
I have little doubt that he is with Voldemort, serving as a wandmaker.
My only question is whether he was kidnapped, went voluntarily, or a
little of both?
>5. Tonks- I just want to be sure she's as good as she seems.
I haven't really focused that much on Tonks. I assume that what you
see is what you get. I think it would be tricky to write about a
shapeshifter who isn't who she seems (it's a bit too obvious). If
there's someone hiding a secret identity in the story (which wouldn't
surprise me at all), I don't think it's Tonks.
>6. Crookshanks. This part-kneazle has some role to play. And who is Mrs.
>Norris exactly? Is she part kneazle too? Or just a cat, or a transfigured
>person or result of an irreversible spell?
I don't think there's any more to the cats than what they appear to
be: semi-intelligent, magical pets/familiars.
>7. Fawkes- where is he?
The text indicates that he's gone for good. JKR went out of her way
to say that he was Dumbledore's bird - he didn't belong to Hogwarts.
So he may have departed permanently when Dumbledore did. But who
knows?
>8. Goblins and Centaurs, whose side are they on, and has there been any
>bribe's at St Mungo's or Gringotts?
Those generous contributions by Malfoy strike me as a possible
bribe... (then again, he may have just been trying to impress the
Ministry - which he did).
>9. Dumbledore's portrait. What will it say? Where else can he travel (other
>portrait locations- what if he can go to a portrait in Godric's Hollow?
Those portrait characters certainly get around... But bear in mind
that it's not really Dumbledore. Rowling has indicated that they have
a limited ability as characters...
>10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
>and why he hated James and hates Harry.
Well, he already has a pretty good reason to hate both: James made his
life miserable at Hogwarts, and Harry looks just like him. Naturally,
though, I've got to tell you that the real reason is because Snape
liked Lily, and James took her away from him (adding insult to injury,
if you will). Then James failed to protect Lily when Voldemort came
to kill her (and Harry was the actual reason she died).
>11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
I'll be interested to know the details about the Snape/Lily
relationship. My hunch is that it was purely platonic on her part,
but that Snape harbored hopes of something more. But it could be more
or less than that...
>12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
>nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
>than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
>ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
Rowling already answered that. She said it's impossible to get rid of
him. "Peeves is like dry rot.... ...If you've got Peeves you're
stuck."
>14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
We may never know.
>15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
Hard to call. But the question may be more of whether Harry can
rescue him before he gets himself killed...
drusilla
> "dc" <dacd...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1175681216.5...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 4 Apr, 03:09, drusilla <gammanormids*eraseth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> dc escribió:
>>>
>>>> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
>>>> for the finale.
>>>> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
>>>> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
>>>> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
>>>> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
>>>> a major plot device.
>>> The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
>>> there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
>>> and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
>>> there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
>>> spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence would
>>> be useless.
> <snip>
>
>> Not useless at all. If Harry can see himself holding the missing
>> horcrux(s) then he at least knows what they look like. Thats a major
>> head start from where he is right now.
>
> As DD said in PS/SS, the mirror gives neither knowledge or truth. Therefore
> it won't show Harry where the remaining horcrux are, what they are encased
> in, and what enchantments are protecting them.
Harry would probably see himself surrounded by destroyed Horcruxes and a
dead Voldemort. That's what he wants, he doesn't' want to find the
Horcruxes and nothing else, but defeat Voldemort. The Horcruxes are a
way to do it.
If it did, I'm pretty sure
> DD would've used it to find where they were hidden instead of spending years
> learning Voldemort's history and retracing his steps.
As you said above, DD said the mirror gives no truth. No way he would
trust him for getting information.
Lyle Francis Delp
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> said:
> dc escribió:
>> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
>> for the finale.
>>
>> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
>> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
>> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
>> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
>> a major plot device.
>
> The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
> there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
> and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
> there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
> spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence
> would be useless.
No. It *would* help him identify the remaining horcuxes, even
if it wouldn't help him find them.
--
Yeah! Lyle Francis Delp
Ya wanna make somethin' outtavit?
mueckelein
> On 2007-04-03 22:09:25 -0400, drusilla
Your theory implies that Harry can manipulate the mirror so he can see
the Horcruxes in them. In fact it shows his greatest heart desire and
that is not to find the Horcruxes but to kill Voldemort and at the
moment especcially Snape off. So the mirror will show a dead Voldemort
or Snape with a victorious Harry above him, nothing else.
Dinorider d'Andoandor
> Rowling has already portrayed quintessential evil in the form of
> Voldemort. I don't think she do another one with Snape. I think he'll
> either turn out to've been ultimately working for the Light side,
> (which is what I believe), or be depicted as a "Gray" character,
> acting for his purposes and favouring whatever side is most beneficial
> for him to favour.
>
> Snape is probably the most complex of Rowling's characters and it
> would, IMHO, be a shame if he turned out to be just another mad Dark
> Lord. One of the many "messages" that Rowling seems to convey through
> the Harry Potter series is that most people are not Black & White
> personalities. Snape would bring out this message the best.
>
IMHO Snape just want to play a Saruman-like role, he wants Voldie's
power in his hands!
He just works for himself but still wants to appear like being just
another death eater in the show!
Toon
wrote:
>10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
>and why he hated James and hates Harry.
Read the first 6 Books. Explains the Potter hate right there.
>11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
A whole lot more then she lets on. Being a Muggle, and not a squib or
a witch who denied her magic or anything else that is not a magical
human known as a Muggle. Seeing as how she's a Muggle.
>12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
>nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
>than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
>ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
OK, save that for the Slasher fics.
>13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
Yeah, that'll be important to the plot.
>14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
Successfully.
Toon
>I think we find out whats behind that locked door at the Ministry. And
>even though I think we will see the veil again, I believe we already
>know exactly what it does, but not how. Its a one way ticket to the
>afterlife, don't collect $200, don't pass GO.
Maybe it's a different arch, and that's the cover arch. This one
revives the sick, injured, near dead (but not properly dead.) Hagrid
said V's not even human enough to die. Maybe Harry send him through
it to heal his torn soul to make him human enough to die. or send him
through a love arch that'll kill him with kindness. Literally.
The Universe is one of balance. Maybe JK's following suit. An arch
for death, and an arch for life/love.
Toon
wrote:
>>> 14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
>>
>> hopefully we find out.
>
>I suspect we will, but don't know if this will help Harry.
Doubtful. He seems to be created to show how powerful DD is, that he
he's experience in Dark Wizard Whopping, and to show there's always
going to be evil. Killing V will not end it, only weaken it severely
for a while.
Toon
>I'll be interested to know the details about the Snape/Lily
>relationship. My hunch is that it was purely platonic on her part,
>but that Snape harbored hopes of something more. But it could be more
>or less than that...
Such as Lily loved Snape, racing to his defense as an ice breaker, and
not being thrilled at his racial slurs.
drusilla
Remember the mirror lies, doesn't show what is true. It might show Harry
that the fake Locket is the real Horcrux or that any glass around is
Hufflepuff's cup.
Richard Eney
drusilla <gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:
>Kenny escribió:
>>"dc" <dacd...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>>> dc escribió:
>>>>
>>>>> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
>>>>> for the finale.
>>>>> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
>>>>> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
>>>>> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
>>>>> horcrux!
>>>> The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
>>>> there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
>>>> and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
>>>> there.
>>> If Harry can see himself holding the missing
>>> horcrux(s) then he at least knows what they look like.
>>
>> As DD said in PS/SS, the mirror gives neither knowledge or truth.
>> Therefore it won't show Harry where the remaining horcrux are,
>> what they are encased in, and what enchantments are protecting them.
>Harry would probably see himself surrounded by destroyed Horcruxes and
>a dead Voldemort. That's what he wants, he doesn't' want to find the
>Horcruxes and nothing else, but defeat Voldemort. The Horcruxes are a
>way to do it.
<snip>
>As you said above, DD said the mirror gives no truth. No way he would
>trust him for getting information.
DD's statement about the Mirror of Erised are as tricky as the prophecy.
The Mirror frequently shows truth.
For example, Ron was portrayed as Head Boy (wearing the badge) and as
Quidditch Captain. We don't know yet about Head Boy, but Ron _did_
become Quidditch Captain. So the Mirror can show truth.
Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too. It showed the Philosopher's Stone
as it really looked. It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
would not be nearly so dangerous.
While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
Les <lesliem...@netscape.net> wrote:
>On Apr 3, 9:33 pm, "dc" <dacdac...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
>> for the finale.
>
>> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
>> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
>> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
>> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
>> a major plot device.
>
>The Mirror of Erised is originally designed to reflect the heart's
>desire of the viewer, not objective truth. Harry has no idea what
>some of the horcruxes are, so the mirror will not be able to show
>them, or will show objects that Harry believes/desires to be
>horcruxes.
I believe that Harry didn't know what the Philosopher's Stone looked
like before the Mirror showed it to him.
>> 2 Chamber of Secrets. Would be surprised if its not at least mentioned
>> in passing. It should be high up on the list of places to search,
>> maybe not for a horcrux itself but perhaps Voldemort has left
>> something behind that Harry can use to his advantage in following the
>> trail.
>
>I am personally convinced that Slytherin gave his descendents the
>Parseltoungue ability for a reason.
I believe that he had no choice in that; Parselmouth is apparently genetic.
Other people besides Slytherins have had it. It just got a bad name by
its association with Salazar S.
>> I feel there is another prophecy due from Sybil. This might lead Harry
>> to the time and place of the final battle....
>
>It might explain why all the portraits in Dumbledore's office
>disapproved with his decision to allow Harry to accompany him in the
>locket hunt. Trelawney visited Dumbledore's office repeatedly during
>last summer.
Very interesting idea, that.
>> other theories, lets hear them.
>Here is an outlandish prediction you can laugh over: Draco dies,
>and his ghost keeps Moaning Myrtle company at Hogwarts.
Draco dies and his ghost helps Harry.
=Tamar
drusilla
DD hinted that some people had gone mad due to the mirror. That's
because it won't show any truth. Harry's greatest desire is to destroy
LV, not to get the Horcruxes. And, even if it showed them, probably what
he wishes is them to be near to him, so, it would show him a room full
with Horcruxes for him to destroy easily. Remember that also the mirror
showed Harry's family with them, not where he could find some distant
cousin/uncle/whatever.
drusilla
I think he sees both Dumbledore or Voldemort (or both) as a tool.
Somehow I also discussed with a friend that people like Malfoy see LV as
someone who would get ride of mudbloods and that's benefit for them.
Richard Eney
drusilla <gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:
>mueckelein escribió:
>> Your theory implies that Harry can manipulate the mirror so he can see
>> the Horcruxes in them. In fact it shows his greatest heart desire and
>> that is not to find the Horcruxes but to kill Voldemort and at the
>> moment especcially Snape off. So the mirror will show a dead Voldemort
>> or Snape with a victorious Harry above him, nothing else.
>
>DD hinted that some people had gone mad due to the mirror. That's
>because it won't show any truth.
No, it was because they couldn't tell whether it was true or not.
If they could have been sure that what it showed wasn't possible,
they could have left and done something else. It was the uncertainty
that got them stuck.
=Tamar
drusilla
Many had said that the mirror shows the future because of that. Ron's
case it's a coincidence we can't say much from his experience.
But Harry saw his family. We can't tell if all of them are dead but if
at leas one of them were alive, why didn't show him where they were
instead? So he can go look for him?
Also, Quirrel saw himself with the Stone, but the mirror didnt' show
where it was. (Although is still hard to tell if this was only a
coincidence of the spell. Perhaps the spell prevents from him to know
where the stone is)
> Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
> Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too. It showed the Philosopher's Stone
> as it really looked. It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
> surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
> shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
I said it above, it the mirror really helps, Harry had seen where they
are located, at least those that are alive.
> If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
> would not be nearly so dangerous.
Well, also depends on the one that wishes. If I wished to be the most
beautiful woman in the world, probably I would stay there forever
watching myself. If I wish something to eat, I probably would run to
look for something as the mirror can't provide me with real food.
> While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
> might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
> It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
It works different that the Requirement Room. I think it would be to
easy to "ask" the mirror. "Mirror Mirron on the wall..." Nah, too easy.
Kenny
"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:131am30...@corp.supernews.com...
> DD's statement about the Mirror of Erised are as tricky as the prophecy.
> The Mirror frequently shows truth.
The mirror doesn't show truth, it shows only someone's deepest desire.
> For example, Ron was portrayed as Head Boy (wearing the badge) and as
> Quidditch Captain. We don't know yet about Head Boy, but Ron _did_
> become Quidditch Captain. So the Mirror can show truth.
No, the mirror cannot show truth. DD specifically stated that. With Ron,
the mirror showed his deepest desire -- which was to be the best of all his
brothers. That is what the mirror does. It doesn't show truth. It doen't
predict the future or show how to achive that desire. Remember, DD said
many people have wasted away before the mirror, entranced by what they see
in it, or driven mad. The mirror shows someone their deepest desire,
nothing else.
> Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
> Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too.
Reread the pages. When Harry stood in front of the mirror, Ron only saw
Harry's reflection because the Mirror of Erisid is part mirror. Ron
couldn't see Harry's reflection changed slightly and standing amongst all
his relatives. When Ron stood in front of the mirror, Harry only could see
Ron's relfection, and not Ron looking at an older version of himself that
was Head Boy and Quiddich captain too. Quirril only saw Harry's reflection,
and not the desire of Harry's reflection of pulling the stone out of his
pocket and putting it back again.
>It showed the Philosopher's Stone
> as it really looked. It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
> surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
> shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
We don't know that Quirrell and Harry saw the exact same stone in the
reflection of the mirror. Yes, I know in the movie they saw the same stone,
but in the book it is different. In the book, while looking in the mirror,
Quirrell sees himself presenting the stone to his master, but there is no
description of what the stone looks like. OTOH Harry sees a blood-red stone
in the mirror. However, we do not know if this is what he imagines the
stone to look like or if it is truely what the stone looks like because in
the book -- unlike the movie -- Harry never takes the stone out of his
pocket, so its true appearance remains hidden.
> If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
> would not be nearly so dangerous.
Yeah ... and?
> While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
> might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
> It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
No, DD clearly said that "the mirror will neither give us knowledge or
truth." Therefore, the mirror cannot show him what any of the horcruxes
look like, where they are, how they're protected, or whatever. Besides, if
it did, don't you think DD would have used it to find the horcruxes?
Kenny
gjw
I must admit, it would be a surprising twist if Lily loved Snape and
Snape didn't love her back. ;)
And I suppose with most people, the guilt (after their death) could
serve as motivation. But Snape's an odd characer - I don't know if
he would feel guilt over the death of someone who loved him, if he
didn't care about them in return.
*MYSTIC*
Snape as the "Half-Blood Prince" was an alchemical prodigy. But Lillian
was Slug's favorite. One must wonder who was the actual prodigy? Was
there tutoring involved between the two? Perhaps his notes were her
suggestions for improvement? Or maybe her ability was because of his
tutoring her in potions? Slugworth never mentions Snape as a promising
student but he does Lillian. This is the unseen and unexplained
connection I see between the two of them.
*MYSTIC*
Pip R. Lagenta
wrote:
I suspect that Professor Horace E. F. Slughorn thought Lily was good
at potions for the same reason that he thought Harry was good at
potions: Lily had the "Half-Blood Prince" potions textbook. Snape
could have given it to her by way of apology, thus opening a door to
some kind of friendship. Lily is probably the forgiving type. I feel
that it is possible that Lily was Snape's *only* friend. Lily, of
course, had many friends. To Lily, Snape would be one of her more
strange (unusual) friends, but not her only strange (unusual) friend.
>
--
內躬偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
�虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌
-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
Barbarossa
> I suspect that Professor Horace E. F. Slughorn thought Lily
> was good at potions for the same reason that he thought Harry
> was good at potions: Lily had the "Half-Blood Prince" potions
> textbook. Snape could have given it to her by way of apology,
> thus opening a door to some kind of friendship. Lily is
> probably the forgiving type. I feel that it is possible that
> Lily was Snape's *only* friend. Lily, of course, had many
> friends. To Lily, Snape would be one of her more strange
> (unusual) friends, but not her only strange (unusual) friend.
Barbarossa:
This suggestion would imply that Snape (and the Marauders)
were at least one year older and therefore at least one year
ahead of Lily Evans. The notes in the potions book would have to
have been completed BEFORE it was given to Lily in order for it
to have been any use in the Advanced Potions class.
Unless, of course, Snape had figured all of this out on his
own time and written the notes into the book before he had even
taken the class which really would have made HIM the prodigy.
Although we know that Snape is really a whiz a potions, it is
always Lily that Slughorn praises. I suspect it more likely that
Snape and Lily knew each other as children and that they were Lab
Partners in potions class. This is not inconsistent with what we
know and would help to explain a lot that we donšt.
--
________B___a___r___b___a___r___o___s___s___a________
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
Toon
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:
>DD hinted that some people had gone mad due to the mirror. That's
>because it won't show any truth. Harry's greatest desire is to destroy
>LV, not to get the Horcruxes. And, even if it showed them, probably what
>he wishes is them to be near to him, so, it would show him a room full
>with Horcruxes for him to destroy easily. Remember that also the mirror
>showed Harry's family with them, not where he could find some distant
>cousin/uncle/whatever.
Maybe the UK cover is what Harry sees in the mirror. The Trio falling
into a room full of horcruxes.
Toon
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:
>Remember the mirror lies, doesn't show what is true. It might show Harry
>that the fake Locket is the real Horcrux or that any glass around is
>Hufflepuff's cup.
It doesn't lie. it just shows you're heart's desire, which is like a
fantasy. But it can be real. Ron's desires can come true, but he
must make them so. Harry desired The Stone to protect it, and the
mirror showed him the truth, albeit due to DD's spell. So yes, magic
can influence it. And apparently, DD has a spell that can read
intentions. At least in conjunction with the mirror.
Toon
wrote:
>The Mirror frequently shows truth.
Yes, but not always at the time. Ron made his desire come true. At
the time, it was a mere fantasy. You can't take what you see as the
gossipel truth. You have to treat it as a rumor, a possibility. Harry
saw his family, but it'd be a fool's errand to search for them,
they're all dead. The family is true in that it's his relatives yes,
but the image he saw was not the truth, as they're all dead.
And prolonged exposure to his greatest desire, coupled with the
reality he'll never be able to achieve it, would eventually drive him
mad.
The mirror only shows desire. You have to make it truth if you can.
But it is neither the whole truth nor a complete lie. It's a fantasy.
And some fantasies can become real. But it's not real at the time.
The Stone was the only real time image, and that was do to DD's spell,
not the original parameters.
Toon
>I must admit, it would be a surprising twist if Lily loved Snape and
>Snape didn't love her back. ;)
>
JK said who would want Snape in love with them. Never did she say who
could ever love Snape.
>And I suppose with most people, the guilt (after their death) could
>serve as motivation. But Snape's an odd characer - I don't know if
>he would feel guilt over the death of someone who loved him, if he
>didn't care about them in return.
Well, as far as Snape knew, he did get a person who loved him marked
for death by Voldemort. He might not love her, but knowing he
returned her affection with hate as a teen, then got her and her
family marked for death could initiate remorse and regret. Snape does
have a heart, however well he hides it. If he didn't, he couldn't
feel egret over getting the Potters killed, be it for love of them,
life debt, or guilt over getting his biggest fan killed. Plus, I
think his time in the DE's really changed him a lot from who he once
was. A boy who's happily call someone a mudblood could suddenly hate
themselves for hurting them in the worst way possible: sending a
psychotic moron off to kill their whole family.
Perhaps he asked Voldemort to spare Lily and James because she loved
him, and he could convert her to a DE. James would naturally follow.
Perhaps under the lie they could work within to destroy V in revenge.
What better soldiers than those who formerly defied you 3 times
already? And James was a very powerful wizard as a teen, to of his
class. Hagid said he found it strange V never tried corrupting him.
Green-Eyed Chris
The biggest twist would be Snape, that awful boy, doing it all because of
his crush on Petunia!
--
Chris
Green-Eyed Chris
Barbarossa <whe...@ucsd.edu> wrote:
That's what I've been saying all along. Be prepared for derision.
--
Chris
Sirius Kase
> In article <461479a1$0$16343$88260...@free.teranews.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> drusilla <gammanormids*eraseth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Kenny escribió:
> >>"dc" <dacdac...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Yes, but it isn't because the mirror knows the truth. It shows the
heart's deepest desire, which for many people happens to be the goal
that they are working towards consciosly or subconsciously.
>
> For example, Ron was portrayed as Head Boy (wearing the badge) and as
> Quidditch Captain. We don't know yet about Head Boy, but Ron _did_
> become Quidditch Captain. So the Mirror can show truth.
This was an attainable goal for Ron. There is no reason to believe he
is any less talented than his older brothers. He wants it and he
works towards it, except for that brief period when some sort of
mental block was screwing up his Quidditch, but he got over that.
>
> Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
> Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too.
Yeah, Harry knows how he, Ron, and Quirrell appear, so his desire,
which is based on his own mental efforts would be accurate. Voldmort?
I don't think Harry saw Voldemort in the mirror. Voldemort and/or
Quirrel did, and they know what Voldy looks like. Remember, when you
look into the mirror and see something, anyone else in the room
doesn't see what you see, they see their own deepest desire.
> It showed the Philosopher's Stone
> as it really looked.
Maybe in the movie, or maybe Hermione's book had a description or
picture that Harry was remembering.
> It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
> surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
> shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
Does he remember what his family looked like? Or did he see how they
might have looked? He was old enough to have some memory of his
parents appearance, and maybe some of the others, but the context
clues were there, his Mom was acting like a mom and his Dad was acting
like a dad. The only confirmation that the mirror image was accurate
is Harry's reaction when he later looked at the photo album.
>
> If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
> would not be nearly so dangerous.
Knowledge of the future isn't the only useful information in the
world. A person may not be in touch with their deepest desires, yet
be working towards that goal subconsciously. Or, in Harry's case, he
was alerted that he was wasting energy on an unobtanable desire.
>
> While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
> might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
> It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
It would be nice if he could desire to see the horcruxes and see them
there accurately. Then, he would know what to look for. But, our
experience with the mirror doesn't show whether the mirror has the
power to show what you don't already know. It just makes it easier to
see.
>
> =Tamar
Sirius Kase
> In article <46155544$0$16297$88260...@free.teranews.com>,
>
> drusilla <gammanormids*eraseth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >mueckelein escribió:
> >> Your theory implies that Harry can manipulate the mirror so he can see
> >> the Horcruxes in them. In fact it shows his greatest heart desire and
> >> that is not to find the Horcruxes but to kill Voldemort and at the
> >> moment especcially Snape off. So the mirror will show a dead Voldemort
> >> or Snape with a victorious Harry above him, nothing else.
>
> >DD hinted that some people had gone mad due to the mirror. That's
> >because it won't show any truth.
>
> No, it was because they couldn't tell whether it was true or not.
> If they could have been sure that what it showed wasn't possible,
> they could have left and done something else. It was the uncertainty
> that got them stuck.
>
> =Tamar
yes, we have had examples of desires that were unobtainable (H with
his family, Q handing stone to V) and obtainable (H with stone in
pocket, R being Q captian and head boy). Actually, at the time, Q
seeing himself handing stone to V might have been obtainable, but it
was never going to happen. It's all about desires, not all desires
can or will happen. Ron has yet to achieve his desire, but he has
made good progress towards doing so.
mueckelein
Sorry - it shows the greatest heart desire! It is not the magic lamp
of Aladin where you can tell your wish. I am sure hardly anybody
really knows conciously what his greatest wish is. Harry cannot stand
in front of it and say " I wish I knew where the Horcruxes are".
Remember Quirrelmort in front of the mirror? He was holding the stone!
That´s exactly the way the mirror works. Why does Harry look for the
Horcruxes? Because he wants to defeat Voldemort. And he will see a
defeated Voldemort if he gets the chance to look into the mirror of
Erised.
David Harmon
dic...@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote,
>I believe that Harry didn't know what the Philosopher's Stone looked
>like before the Mirror showed it to him.
That much at least is true.
But the Philosopher's Stone is a special case. The Mirror behaved
as it did because it was under Dumbledore's enchantment (which not
just anybody could have done - the mirror is a very powerful magical
object in its own right.)
The mirror "knew" what the stone looked like because Dumbledore had
hidden the stone in it. Showing Harry the stone is well outside the
mirror's normal behavior of showing your desire. What Harry really
desired at that point was probably to keep the stone as well-hidden
as possible.
The mirror is not a very benevolent magical object. It is rather
predatory, actually. It probably dumped the stone off on Harry at
the first opportunity it got, within the bounds of Dumbledore's
enchantment, in order to shake off that enchantment and get back to
its own preferred purposes.
Pip R. Lagenta
wrote:
>Pip R. Lagenta <morbiu...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I suspect that Professor Horace E. F. Slughorn thought Lily
>> was good at potions for the same reason that he thought Harry
>> was good at potions: Lily had the "Half-Blood Prince" potions
>> textbook. Snape could have given it to her by way of apology,
>> thus opening a door to some kind of friendship. Lily is
>> probably the forgiving type. I feel that it is possible that
>> Lily was Snape's *only* friend. Lily, of course, had many
>> friends. To Lily, Snape would be one of her more strange
>> (unusual) friends, but not her only strange (unusual) friend.
>
>Barbarossa:
>
> This suggestion would imply that Snape (and the Marauders)
>were at least one year older and therefore at least one year
>ahead of Lily Evans. The notes in the potions book would have to
>have been completed BEFORE it was given to Lily in order for it
>to have been any use in the Advanced Potions class.
I don't see the need for Snape and the others to be older than Lily.
Snape seemed to have done much in the potions textbook *very* early.
Levicorpus was around early enough for James to have stolen it by the
time of the O.W.L.S. At which time, we also see Snape use
sectumsempra.
> Unless, of course, Snape had figured all of this out on his
>own time and written the notes into the book before he had even
>taken the class which really would have made HIM the prodigy.
I think that it is clear that Snape *was* a prodigy. (Ignoring, for
the time being, the possibility that it was Snape's mother who did all
the writing in the textbook. That is too unlikely.)
> Although we know that Snape is really a whiz a potions, it is
>always Lily that Slughorn praises.
Yes, I am sure that that means something, but I don't know what. It
may be nothing more than the fact that Lily is more attractive than
Snape is.
>I suspect it more likely that
>Snape and Lily knew each other as children and that they were Lab
>Partners in potions class. This is not inconsistent with what we
>know and would help to explain a lot that we don靖.
I feel sure that Petunia met Snape, but I see no reason why (or how)
it should have happened before Lily met Snape at Hogwarts.
DaveD
"Toon" <to...@toon.com> wrote in message
news:225713pjtrkcroa8i...@4ax.com...
> On 3 Apr 2007 17:33:03 -0700, "dc" <dacd...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >Ginny is crucial because I think it will be Harry's love for her that
> >allows him to defeat Voldemort. I can't guess the specifics, but in
> >some fashion that love will manifest itself and allow Harry to win.
>
> Lilyesque sacrifice. Notice the similarities between Ginny and Lily.
Well, thinking back to the fight scene in the MoM in OotP, Harry was briefly
possessed by Voldy. It was only Harry's love for Sirius, looking forward to
being reunited with him, that got rid of Voldy who couldn't stand the love.
So it's possible Harry will finish off the horcruxes then kill Voldy - so he
thinks, only to find himself possessed by Voldy as the last (accidental)
horcrux provides a pathway into his head as in the MoM fight. But this time
his love for Ginny will triumph and that will vanquish Voldy for ever.
DaveD
DaveD
"Green-Eyed Chris" <cw...@SPAMfreenet.de> wrote in message
news:cwlNO-06040...@o4db0.o.pppool.de...
Well JKR has said we'll find out something big about Petunia - and that
would be pretty big!
I'm tempted to say "but why would anyone fancy Snape" - then again, look at
Petunia's subsequent choice, Vernon, ugh! So she'd be consistent if she had
had the hots for Snape - going for really horrible guys....
DaveD
Barbarossa
> > I suspect it more likely that Snape and Lily knew each other
> >as children and that they were Lab Partners in potions class.
> >This is not inconsistent with what we know and would help to
> >explain a lot that we donšt.
Pip R. Lagenta <morbiu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I feel sure that Petunia met Snape, but I see no reason why
> (or how) it should have happened before Lily met Snape at
> Hogwarts.
Barbarossa:
I concur that Petunia met Snape, and I believe that Snape,
not James, was "that awful boy."
I agree that there is no NEED for Snape and Lily to have met
before Hogwarts, but there is no need to rule it out either. The
time frame may be left intentionally vague as long as the two
knew each other either from age 11 or perhaps before. It might be
possible that they came from the same neighborhood.
drusilla
No. She says that "there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets
the eye, and you will find out what it is." That could also be
interpreted as she will show at least a little bit of love for Harry
when he left forever.
Robert A. Neinast
morbiu...@comcast.net says...
> I think that it is clear that Snape *was* a prodigy. (Ignoring, for
> the time being, the possibility that it was Snape's mother who did all
> the writing in the textbook. That is too unlikely.)
Interestingly, when Harry and friends first start examining
the book, one of them remarks that the handwriting looks
feminine.
Snape's mother?
Lily?
Or maybe Snape just has feminine handwriting. I don't recall if
that was ever cleared up.
gjw
>On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:48:46 GMT, gjw <g...@example.net> wrote:
>
>>I must admit, it would be a surprising twist if Lily loved Snape and
>>Snape didn't love her back. ;)
>>
>
>JK said who would want Snape in love with them. Never did she say who
>could ever love Snape.
>
>>And I suppose with most people, the guilt (after their death) could
>>serve as motivation. But Snape's an odd characer - I don't know if
>>he would feel guilt over the death of someone who loved him, if he
>>didn't care about them in return.
>
>Well, as far as Snape knew, he did get a person who loved him marked
>for death by Voldemort. He might not love her, but knowing he
>returned her affection with hate as a teen, then got her and her
>family marked for death could initiate remorse and regret.
Yes, as I noted, most people would react that way. I'm just not sure
that Snape would.
>Snape does have a heart, however well he hides it.
Well, I'm assuming that he's at least human enough to develop a
schoolboy crush on a girl. That's an almost inevitable part of
growing up. Beyond that, though, I'm not too sure about his heart...
>If he didn't, he couldn't
>feel egret over getting the Potters killed
Yes, but he would probably feel worse if he liked her, than he would
if she only liked him...
>be it for love of them,
>life debt, or guilt over getting his biggest fan killed. Plus, I
>think his time in the DE's really changed him a lot from who he once
>was. A boy who's happily call someone a mudblood could suddenly hate
>themselves for hurting them in the worst way possible: sending a
>psychotic moron off to kill their whole family.
He actually had it coming. He was quite willing to have Voldemort
kill off some unknown family. But it's different when it hits close
to home. Not as abstract...
>Perhaps he asked Voldemort to spare Lily and James because she loved
>him, and he could convert her to a DE. James would naturally follow.
I suspect Snape probably didn't mind James being killed. He just
wanted to keep Lily safe. In fact, with James out of the way, he
might have thought he would stand a chance with the widow...
gjw
Rowling once asked who would want Snape to love them? I ask: who
would want to love Petunia?? ;)
gjw
wrote:
>gjw wrote:
Yes, as I've said before, my assumption is that the odd couple met in
Potions class, learned that they shared an interest (and talent) in
the subject, and became friends as study partners. I suspect that one
of them may have tutored the other, but I'm not sure who tutored whom.
If I were forced to bet, I'd say that Snape taught Lily a few tricks
(in Potions, that is), but it could have been the other way around.
Or perhaps just a mutual sharing of discoveries. Lily is described as
a pretty, popular girl, so it is natural that Snape (a loner, who
wouldn't be used to being around pretty, popular girls) would probably
develop a secret crush on her if they spent enough time together.
Both, however, would have reason to hide any friendship. Snape
wouldn't want his Slytherin schoolmates to know that he was friends
with a Mudblood. And Lily probably wouldn't want her popular friends
to know she was friends with the despised Snape. Which would explain
why Lupin and Sirius didn't seem to know about whatever relationship
existed between the two. (Although my bet is that Dumbledore probably
knew about it...)
( I also wouldn't be surprised if the "Half-Blood Prince" tag was a
playful nickname that Lily pinned on Snape. No one else seemed to
have heard about it... )
gjw
I have nothing against the idea that Lily and Snape knew each other
before Hogwarts. They were both part Muggle, so they could have grown
up in the same neighborhood. It could easily be true.
It's just that there is currently little or no evidence in the books
to suggest it. And it's not really needed to explain how they became
friends.
gjw
wrote:
>In article <6e2d13lltdd7moof6...@4ax.com>,
>morbiu...@comcast.net says...
>> I think that it is clear that Snape *was* a prodigy. (Ignoring, for
>> the time being, the possibility that it was Snape's mother who did all
>> the writing in the textbook. That is too unlikely.)
>
>Interestingly, when Harry and friends first start examining
>the book, one of them remarks that the handwriting looks
>feminine.
>
>Snape's mother?
>Lily?
Hermione says it: "It might have been a girl. I think the handwriting
looks more like a girl's than a boy's."
To which Harry replies:
"The Half-Blood Prince, he was called...How many girls have been
Princes?"
My bet is that it's Lily's handwriting.
Toon
I proposed that already. He was chatting up Lily about Dementors, to
impress Petunia with all his knowledge.
Toon
wrote:
>Sorry - it shows the greatest heart desire! It is not the magic lamp
>of Aladin where you can tell your wish. I am sure hardly anybody
>really knows conciously what his greatest wish is.
Reminds me of a movie where this girl makes a magical wish for her
heart's desire, but wakes up a hermafodyte instead, then decides to
become a boy.
I stopped watching at that point. Thing was, her wish wasn't her
greatest heart's desire as she thought. Apprently being a boy was.
Toon
wrote:
Sucking people's dreams out.
Toon
<davedn...@THESEblueyonderBITS.co.uk> wrote:
>So it's possible Harry will finish off the horcruxes then kill Voldy - so he
>thinks, only to find himself possessed by Voldy as the last (accidental)
>horcrux provides a pathway into his head as in the MoM fight. But this time
>his love for Ginny will triumph and that will vanquish Voldy for ever.
Or he runs into the veil. Problems solved.
Toon
As long as it doesn't involve, so DD came up with the idea that me and
Lily were to switch sons . .
Ron Hunter
It might solve the problem, but it certainly would NOT be a 'happy ending'.
mueckelein
> Well I know what I consider important.
>
> 1. Godric's Hollow, because I am so very curious and would like to see Harry
> explore it, and discover parts of his past. I think it was probably repaired
> so he might find more than you'd think- maybe it's not ruins.
>
> 2. The Veil and what's behind the locked door at the Ministry that the
> Unspeakables work on/with? How does the Veil work, who's behind it and what
> does it do when you fall through it?
>
> 3. Fred and George Weasley. They're such pranksters and rebels, and loyal to
> friends, Dumbledore, and family. WHAT on Earth will these 2 do? I feel like
> their antics will help wreak havoc upon Death Eaters. Can't wait to see what
> they have up their sleeves- I sincerely hope their joke shop is not
> attacked.
>
> 4. Ollivander--where is he? Is he evil?
>
> 5. Tonks- I just want to be sure she's as good as she seems.
>
> 6. Crookshanks. This part-kneazle has some role to play. And who is Mrs.
> Norris exactly? Is she part kneazle too? Or just a cat, or a transfigured
> person or result of an irreversible spell?
>
> 7. Fawkes- where is he?
>
> 8. Goblins and Centaurs, whose side are they on, and has there been any
> bribe's at St Mungo's or Gringotts?
>
> 9. Dumbledore's portrait. What will it say? Where else can he travel (other
> portrait locations- what if he can go to a portrait in Godric's Hollow?
>
> 10. Severus Snape. I need to know ALL about his inner thoughts and motives,
> and why he hated James and hates Harry.
>
> 11. Lily- I want to know more. And what does Petunia know?
>
> 12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
> nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
> than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
> ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
>
> 13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
>
> 14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
>
> 15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
Thanks for listing up exactly my questions!!! :-)
mueckelein
The mirror showed exactly Harry´s parents, his tall father with the
glasses and the black hair, his mother with long red hair and bright
green eyes. The mirror didn´t just mix up Harry´s features and give
one person Harry´s green eyes, another the glasses and a third one his
knubbly knees. It is able to show the desire realistically and
magically knows the features needed. It doesn´t need a picture of the
image it shows to copy it somehow. It´s got the knowledge by magic.
That´s why it shows the stone correctly, too.
drusilla
>> 12. Peeves- why is he the only poltergeist, he can touch things, he's such a
>> nuisance why has he been in Hogwarts all this time? Is there more to Peeves
>> than meets the eye? Dumbeldore allowed him around for a reason. I think his
>> ability to touch things, unlike ghosts, will be important.
Not even him can get ride of Peeves. And we know Peeves can also be
cursed or hexed, as he can touch so I suppose that's the reason he
somehow respect DD more than he respect anyone else.
Here is the text from JKR's invterview:
ES: Why does Dumbledore allow Peeves to stay in the castle?
JKR: Can't get him out.
ES: He's Dumbledore, he can do anything!
JKR: No, no no no no. Peeves is like dry rot. You can try and eradicate
it. It comes with the building. You’re stuck. If you've got Peeves
you're stuck.
ES: But Peeves answers to Dumbledore -
JKR: Allegedly.
MA: Allegedly?
JKR: Yeah. I see Peeves as like a severe plumbing problem in a very old
building, and Dumbledore is slightly better with the spanner than most
people, so he can maybe make it function better for a few weeks. Then
it’s going to start leaking again. Would you want Peeves gone, honestly?
>> 13. Astronomy. I want to see an actual class if Hogwarts is in session.
>>
>> 14. Grindelwald- how did Dumbledore defeat him?
>>
>> 15. Draco...the coward. Will he redeem himself or doom himself.
>
> Thanks for listing up exactly my questions!!! :-)
>
--
Green-Eyed Chris
Right you are, but wouldn't you love to have a cut of the masochist industry?
--
Chris
Green-Eyed Chris
...that's just because you think it would fit with your cold blooded
murderer theory. Someone as aloof as Dumbledore is keeping track of which
teenie is going steady with another at a certain hour of the day? Think
back how it was and get real.
>
>( I also wouldn't be surprised if the "Half-Blood Prince" tag was a
>playful nickname that Lily pinned on Snape. No one else seemed to
>have heard about it... )
_That_ I really like. It fits with his declaration to Harry in his exit scene.
--
Chris
Green-Eyed Chris
Agreed, but in my ickle fan-fic, it could neatly tie together all three
fleeting images Harry saw in Snape's brain during the occlumency lesson.
--
Chris
Richard Eney
Kenny <omgtheyki...@telus.net> wrote:
>"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
>> The Mirror frequently shows truth.
>
>
>> For example, Ron was portrayed as Head Boy (wearing the badge) and as
>> Quidditch Captain. We don't know yet about Head Boy, but Ron _did_
>> become Quidditch Captain. So the Mirror can show truth.
>
The mirror doesn't _guarantee_ what it shows. But it can, and does,
_sometimes_ show truth. Sometimes a shallow kind of heart's desire
will come true. Ron did become Quiddich captain.
>With Ron, the mirror showed his deepest desire -- which was to be the
>best of all his brothers. That is what the mirror does. It doesn't
>show truth. It doen't predict the future or show how to achieve that
>desire.
Of course. But it can randomly show something that happens to come true.
In order to be a dangerous object, the mirror _must_ occasionally show
something that is true. If it didn't, then people could say "oh, it
showed in the mirror of lies, so therefore it will never happen."
It's the fact that it often shows something that _could_ happen (because
sometimes someone's heart's desire is achievable) that makes it so
dangerous.
>> Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
>> Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too.
>
>Reread the pages. When Harry stood in front of the mirror, Ron only saw
>Harry's reflection because the Mirror of Erised is part mirror. Ron
>couldn't see Harry's reflection changed slightly and standing amongst all
>his relatives.
I wasn't referring to what the other person saw. I was referring to what
the person directly in front of the mirror saw. Harry saw himself in
recognizable form, just surrounded by family. Harry looked recognizably
like himself.
Ron saw himself slightly older and in different clothing but he still
was recognizably himself.
>> It showed the Philosopher's Stone as it really looked.
>
>We don't know that Quirrell and Harry saw the exact same stone in the
>reflection of the mirror. Yes, I know in the movie they saw the same stone,
>but in the book it is different. In the book, while looking in the mirror,
>Quirrell sees himself presenting the stone to his master, but there is no
>description of what the stone looks like. OTOH Harry sees a blood-red stone
>in the mirror. However, we do not know if this is what he imagines the
>stone to look like or if it is truely what the stone looks like because in
>the book -- unlike the movie -- Harry never takes the stone out of his
>pocket, so its true appearance remains hidden.
You are right, Harry doesn't in the book. I was remembering the movie.
While Quirrell may have read a description of the Stone that reported
what it looked like in the Potterverse (in history there are variant
descriptions), it is equally possible that what Quirrell saw was something
different from what Harry saw, and that Quirrell merely assumed that
what he saw was the Stone because he saw himself finding it.
>> It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
>> surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
>> shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
>> If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
>> would not be nearly so dangerous.
>
>Yeah ... and?
As I said above. If you could look in the mirror and see only things that
will never happen, then you could use it to weed out hopeless desires. It
could then be useful (if depressing). But as DD says, you can't be sure
whether what you see can be achieved - therefore it might be possible.
If what it shows is possible, like Ron's becoming Quidditch captain,
then it can show truth. It just isn't guaranteed.
>> While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
>> might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
>> It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
>
>No, DD clearly said that "the mirror will neither give us knowledge or
>truth." Therefore, the mirror cannot show him what any of the horcruxes
>look like, where they are, how they're protected, or whatever. Besides,
>if it did, don't you think DD would have used it to find the horcruxes?
DD overstated the case. The mirror has shown truth already. We've seen it.
It's like Hagrid saying all dark wizards were Slytherins. It's an
overstatement, made to make a point at the time.
DD knows how the mirror works: it shows your heart's desire. If finding the
horcruxes isn't someone's heart's desire, the mirror won't show them. DD
presumably had a different heart's desire.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
Sirius Kase <Siriu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>dicc...@radix.net (Richard Eney) wrote:
<snip>
>> DD's statement about the Mirror of Erised are as tricky as the prophecy.
>> The Mirror frequently shows truth.
>
>Yes, but it isn't because the mirror knows the truth. It shows the
>heart's deepest desire, which for many people happens to be the goal
>that they are working towards consciosly or subconsciously.
Right.
>> For example, Ron was portrayed as Head Boy (wearing the badge) and as
>> Quidditch Captain. We don't know yet about Head Boy, but Ron _did_
>> become Quidditch Captain. So the Mirror can show truth.
>
>This was an attainable goal for Ron. There is no reason to believe he
>is any less talented than his older brothers. He wants it and he
>works towards it, except for that brief period when some sort of
>mental block was screwing up his Quidditch, but he got over that.
Sure.
>> Also, the Mirror showed Harry and Ron as they really appeared; it showed
>> Quirrell and Voldemort accurately, too.
>
>Yeah, Harry knows how he, Ron, and Quirrell appear, so his desire,
>which is based on his own mental efforts would be accurate. Voldmort?
>I don't think Harry saw Voldemort in the mirror. Voldemort and/or
>Quirrel did, and they know what Voldy looks like. Remember, when you
>look into the mirror and see something, anyone else in the room
>doesn't see what you see, they see their own deepest desire.
Actually, I think the mirror only works for one person at a time.
When Ron was looking, Harry only saw Ron standing there in his pajamas.
Harry didn't see his own deepest desire.
>> It showed the Philosopher's Stone
>> as it really looked.
>
>Maybe in the movie, or maybe Hermione's book had a description or
>picture that Harry was remembering.
Yeah, I goofed on that. Still, with JKR's frequent descriptions of
jewels - rubies for Gryffindor, especially - I think she probably did
intend that to be what the Stone looks like in the Potterverse.
>> It shows _events_ that may be false. Harry was
>> surrounded by recognizable family - his parents _were_ accurately
>> shown. The appearances of the others may have been accurate also.
>
>Does he remember what his family looked like? Or did he see how they
>might have looked? He was old enough to have some memory of his
>parents appearance, and maybe some of the others, but the context
>clues were there, his Mom was acting like a mom and his Dad was acting
>like a dad. The only confirmation that the mirror image was accurate
>is Harry's reaction when he later looked at the photo album.
Good point. The mirror scene was before he saw the photos.
>> If you could reliably ignore anything shown in the Mirror, then it
>> would not be nearly so dangerous.
>
>Knowledge of the future isn't the only useful information in the
>world. A person may not be in touch with their deepest desires, yet
>be working towards that goal subconsciously. Or, in Harry's case, he
>was alerted that he was wasting energy on an unobtainable desire.
Yes, the mirror could be used for that. There might even be other
uses depending on how the spell works.
>> While the Mirror might show Harry with a dead Voldemort (event that
>> might be false), it might also show an accurate image of the horcruxes.
>> It just depends on what Harry wants the most at that time.
>
>It would be nice if he could desire to see the horcruxes and see them
>there accurately. Then, he would know what to look for. But, our
>experience with the mirror doesn't show whether the mirror has the
>power to show what you don't already know. It just makes it easier to
>see.
We don't know for sure, but if the mirror showed Harry's relatives
accurately - and we weren't told whether the photos looked like the
people he saw in the mirror - if that were true, then it would mean
the mirror could show what you don't know.
I think the mirror was like so many other gimmicks, a throwaway gadget
that JKR never expected to use again and didn't think how it might have
been used. At least it's a single item and not something anyone else
has available.
=Tamar
Richard Eney
If so, then Lily is the one who gets nastier as the book
goes along, who invented Sectumsempra, who wrote "shove
a bezoar down their throat", etc.
Somehow that doesn't fit with the Lily we're supposed to
believe in. It fits a lot better with Snape, who had tiny,
cramped handwriting like Hermione's when he wrote his
O.W.L. exams.
=Tamar
Lyle Francis Delp
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> said:
> Lyle Francis Delp escribió:
>> On 2007-04-03 22:09:25 -0400, drusilla
>> <gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> said:
>>
>>> dc escribió:
>>>> A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
>>>> for the finale.
>>>>
>>>> 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
>>>> Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
>>>> start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
>>>> horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
>>>> a major plot device.
>>>
>>> The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
>>> there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
>>> and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
>>> there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
>>> spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence
>>> would be useless.
>>
>>
>> No. It *would* help him identify the remaining horcuxes, even
>> if it wouldn't help him find them.
>
> Remember the mirror lies, doesn't show what is true. It might show
> Harry that the fake Locket is the real Horcrux or that any glass around
> is Hufflepuff's cup.
Where does it say that the mirror lies?
I know what you are thinking. DD said it gives neither knowledge nor
truth. But that's not quite the same as lying. It showed Harry his
deepest desire...his family. What he didn't know was that they
were only illusions of his desire. Still not the same as a lie.
BTW, perhaps his deepest desires have changed in the past
6 years. Perhaps his deepest desire is to know what
items have been made into horcruxes.
Hey, it could happen. We're dealing with fiction here. Whatever
Jo wants to happen will happen.
--
Yeah! Lyle Francis Delp
Ya wanna make somethin' outtavit?
Robert A. Neinast
says...
And here I'm going to argue with myself . . .
If it is all Lily's handwriting, then such things as the Sectumsempra,
and Levicorpus came from her, not Snape. This is rather hard to
believe.
Yet, if the handwriting in the book was from two separate people,
you would think Harry would notice that, and comment on it.
(Though JK could have just accidentally-on-purpose failed to
mention that for us.)
Another question that occurred to me. Snapes is a good Potions
Master, but is he really that good? Certainly, in teaching the
subject, he totally neglects to tell the students all these
various tricks that he supposedly came up with. Good teachers
(OK, in other ways we already know he's a lousy teacher) are
more than willing to share there extra knowledge, and deviate
from the official textbook all the time. Yet, Snape, presumably
with all this extra knowledge (make every 7th stir counter-
clockwise), never, ever, conveys it to his students.
Why not?
My guess is that Lily, the girl that her Potions teacher
raves about (and not Snape), told them to Snape in
class, and those are his notes, not his inventions.
And then Snape lost his book at some point, so without
his notes he is forced to resort to mere competence,
instead of brilliance, when teaching the subject.
Robert A. Neinast
> In article <dVdRh.63$hO2.14@edtnps82>,
> Kenny <omgtheyki...@telus.net> wrote:
> >No, the mirror cannot show truth. DD specifically stated that.
>
> The mirror doesn't _guarantee_ what it shows. But it can, and does,
> _sometimes_ show truth. Sometimes a shallow kind of heart's desire
> will come true. Ron did become Quiddich captain.
Am I missing something? I could have sworn *Harry* became
Quiddich captain. And Ron became the Keeper.
Pip R. Lagenta
Chris) wrote:
>In article <onee131prekf04ag7...@4ax.com>, g...@example.com wrote:
>>( I also wouldn't be surprised if the "Half-Blood Prince" tag was a
>>playful nickname that Lily pinned on Snape. No one else seemed to
>>have heard about it... )
>
>_That_ I really like. It fits with his declaration to Harry in his exit scene.
Yeah, that sounds good to me, too.
>
--
內躬偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,
Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta Pip R. Lagenta
�虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌`偕爻,虜,齯滌
-- Pip R. Lagenta
President for Life
International Organization Of People Named Pip R. Lagenta
(If your name is Pip R. Lagenta, ask about our dues!)
<http://home.comcast.net/~galentripp/pip.html>
(For Email: I'm at home, not work.)
gjw
wrote:
The key word here is "all". I assume Lily wrote some notes and Snape
wrote others. If the handwriting was all the same, it's probably
Snape's.
>Another question that occurred to me. Snapes is a good Potions
>Master, but is he really that good? Certainly, in teaching the
>subject, he totally neglects to tell the students all these
>various tricks that he supposedly came up with. Good teachers
>(OK, in other ways we already know he's a lousy teacher) are
>more than willing to share there extra knowledge, and deviate
>from the official textbook all the time. Yet, Snape, presumably
>with all this extra knowledge (make every 7th stir counter-
>clockwise), never, ever, conveys it to his students.
>
>Why not?
Perhaps he's just selfish, and like to keep his special tricks to
himself.
>My guess is that Lily, the girl that her Potions teacher
>raves about (and not Snape), told them to Snape in
>class, and those are his notes, not his inventions.
Quite possible.
>And then Snape lost his book at some point, so without
>his notes he is forced to resort to mere competence,
>instead of brilliance, when teaching the subject.
But as I recall, the HBP potions book was just sitting in a cupboard
in Snape's classroom. Slughorn just walked over and took it out
(along with another copy) and gave it to Harry. One would think that
Snape would have found it in such an obvious location.
gjw
Chris) wrote:
No, actually, it's because it fits my Snape/Lily theory...
>Someone as aloof as Dumbledore is keeping track of which
>teenie is going steady with another at a certain hour of the day? Think
>back how it was and get real.
Dumbledore keeps an eye on his students. Dumbledore certainly knew
about James and Lily. He kept a very close eye on Riddle, for example.
And Snape also had all the makings of a potential problem student. He
came to school knowing a ton of Dark curses. He was a loner,
interested in the Dark Arts. He didn't get along with his fellow
students, and worse, had managed to get on the wrong side of a popular
(& somewhat dangerous) clique, leading to violent confrontations on
campus. Dumbledore had every reason to worry about Snape turning out
rotten. And with Dumbledore's faith in the power of love, he must
have felt relieved when he found out that Snape had finally fallen in
love with someone (or at least developed a good friendship). DD
probably saw it as an opportunity for Snape to be redeemed before it
was too late. But then he had to stand by and watch James & Lily pair
off, and watch Snape slink off to join Voldemort. Dumbledore may have
even felt a bit guilty over failing to a student when he had the
chance. So when Snape returned, denouncing the Dark Side, and doing
so because of his feelings for Lily, Dumbledore would naturally
welcome the development.
Toon
>>The biggest twist would be Snape, that awful boy, doing it all because of
>>his crush on Petunia!
>
>Rowling once asked who would want Snape to love them? I ask: who
>would want to love Petunia?? ;)
>
>
Vernon Duresely. Even knowing about her witch of a sister.
Toon
wrote:
I never said I was predicting a happy ending.
Toon
wrote:
>In article <131g7v0...@corp.supernews.com>, dic...@radix.net says...
I'm missing it too. JK said Ron might have trouble making the team
because of the Captain (Harry was quite fair in his roster picking).
Toon
<theel...@manhattan.com> wrote:
>BTW, perhaps his deepest desires have changed in the past
>6 years. Perhaps his deepest desire is to know what
>items have been made into horcruxes.
Well, you don't think DD always wanted warm socks? Only know in his
old age, having lived so long, seen so much, actively fought two Dark
Lords, beaten one of them, does he realize it's the little things that
count. They're a metaphor.
Toon
>( I also wouldn't be surprised if the "Half-Blood Prince" tag was a
>playful nickname that Lily pinned on Snape. No one else seemed to
>have heard about it... )
Not everybody brags about self proclaimed nicknames. Bruce Wyane
doesn't advertise he's Batman.
Toon
>On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:31:23 GMT, Robert A. Neinast <nei...@att.net>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <6e2d13lltdd7moof6...@4ax.com>,
>>morbiu...@comcast.net says...
>>> I think that it is clear that Snape *was* a prodigy. (Ignoring, for
>>> the time being, the possibility that it was Snape's mother who did all
>>> the writing in the textbook. That is too unlikely.)
>>
>>Interestingly, when Harry and friends first start examining
>>the book, one of them remarks that the handwriting looks
>>feminine.
>>
>>Snape's mother?
>>Lily?
>
>
>Hermione says it: "It might have been a girl. I think the handwriting
>looks more like a girl's than a boy's."
>
>To which Harry replies:
>
> "The Half-Blood Prince, he was called...How many girls have been
>Princes?"
>
>My bet is that it's Lily's handwriting.
>
>
Snape just has effeminate handwriting.
Or Hermione's wrong and it's not a female's handwriting.
Toon
wrote:
> It fits a lot better with Snape, who had tiny,
>cramped handwriting like Hermione's when he wrote his
>O.W.L. exams.
That just leaves Snape is Hermione's father.
Toon
wrote:
>Another question that occurred to me. Snapes is a good Potions
>Master, but is he really that good?
He's one of the few who brews Lupin's Happy Werewolf Potion.
Toon
Chris) wrote:
>...that's just because you think it would fit with your cold blooded
>murderer theory. Someone as aloof as Dumbledore is keeping track of which
>teenie is going steady with another at a certain hour of the day? Think
>back how it was and get real.
I'm sure he reads the Wizards' Teen mags and listens to all the gossip
to keep up with the daily happenings.
BriD
> In article <uhee13dhcgn2ni5l5ikr0b8r6e1kdag...@4ax.com>, g...@example.com wrote:
> >On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:04:15 +0200, c...@SPAMfreenet.de (Green-Eyed
> >Chris) wrote:
>
> >>In article <tj9b139ahs2evjs6232v9e1a2lhmt3s...@4ax.com>, g...@example.com
> wrote:
>
> >>>On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:45:46 -0400, Toon <t...@toon.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:58:30 GMT, gjw <g...@example.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>I'll be interested to know the details about the Snape/Lily
> >>>>>relationship. My hunch is that it was purely platonic on her part,
> >>>>>but that Snape harbored hopes of something more. But it could be more
> >>>>>or less than that...
>
> >>>>Such as Lily loved Snape, racing to his defense as an ice breaker, and
> >>>>not being thrilled at his racial slurs.
>
> >>>I must admit, it would be a surprising twist if Lily loved Snape and
> >>>Snape didn't love her back. ;)
>
> >>>And I suppose with most people, the guilt (after their death) could
> >>>serve as motivation. But Snape's an odd characer - I don't know if
> >>>he would feel guilt over the death of someone who loved him, if he
> >>>didn't care about them in return.
>
> >>The biggest twist would be Snape, that awful boy, doing it all because of
> >>his crush on Petunia!
>
> >Rowling once asked who would want Snape to love them? I ask: who
> >would want to love Petunia?? ;)
>
> Right you are, but wouldn't you love to have a cut of the masochist industry?
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
We'll have a whip round so you can join! ;-)
BriD
lara...@gmail.com
> On 4 Apr, 03:09, drusilla <gammanormids*eraseth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > dc escribió:
>
> > > A quick run through the books to pick out one item we might see return
> > > for the finale.
>
> > > 1 The Mirror of Erised. Harry might be left this or find it with
> > > Dumbledore's posessions. Imagine him looking into the mirror at the
> > > start of the book, it could very well see him holding the missing
> > > horcrux! I think we will see it return, even if its a bit part and not
> > > a major plot device.
>
> > The Mirror might show Harry holding the Horcrux but will not show where
> > there are. For example, Harry might wish them to have him in his bag,
> > and that's what he would see but that doesn't mean the Horcruxes are
> > there. If he had access to the Philosopher's Stone is because DD cast a
> > spell on the Mirror and he had the Stone before. So, it's presence would
> > be useless.
>
>
> Not useless at all. If Harry can see himself holding the missing
> horcrux(s) then he at least knows what they look like. Thats a major
> head start from where he is right now.- Nascondi testo tra virgolette -
>
> - Mostra testo tra virgolette -
ciao a tutti prova
Green-Eyed Chris
<beth...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
LOL!!! Welcome to my world? Actually, I'm more on the ~S~ side:
Bondaged Beth begging: "Whip me. WHIP ME!!!"
Chris slowly sadistically sneering: "No."
But siriusly, I know women who would enjoy a little controlled, prolonging
torture from someone like Snape, even if he is a ~papshmeer~. Petunia
would surely be quite surprised to discover what kind of men are filling
her little black book just waiting for a good whipping.
I remain in salivating expectation of your e-mail. It goes without saying
that your pics will be treated with absolute discretion.
Oh, I see that your boots need licking... always at your cervix, Madame. :-P
--
Chris
DaveD
"drusilla" <gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4616b2b5$0$16354$8826...@free.teranews.com...
> DaveD escribió:
> > "Green-Eyed Chris" <cw...@SPAMfreenet.de> wrote in message
> > news:cwlNO-06040...@o4db0.o.pppool.de...
> >> In article <tj9b139ahs2evjs62...@4ax.com>,
g...@example.com
> > wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:45:46 -0400, Toon <to...@toon.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:58:30 GMT, gjw <g...@example.net> wrote:
> > Well JKR has said we'll find out something big about Petunia - and that
> > would be pretty big!
> >
> > I'm tempted to say "but why would anyone fancy Snape" - then again, look
at
> > Petunia's subsequent choice, Vernon, ugh! So she'd be consistent if she
had
> > had the hots for Snape - going for really horrible guys....
>
> No. She says that "there is a little bit more...
oops - I sit corrected :)
> ... to Aunt Petunia than meets
> the eye, and you will find out what it is." That could also be
> interpreted as she will show at least a little bit of love for Harry
> when he left forever.
Thanks! And perhaps it's that Petunia can see Lily's eyes in Harry when she
looks at him, so that's why she agreed to take him in? (Though if that's the
case, why was she still so mean to him afterwards...)
DaveD
BriD
> In article <1176040112.781232.95...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, "BriD"
Oh boy have you got it wrong!! That would be "Sir" not Madame. For the
record I am a 69 year old male and I thought we had cleared this some
time ago. The beth part of the email address is my wife. Hence Bri(an)
D. I know I had a discussion with Blon about this sometime last year.
BTW I'm surprised noone has mentioned the JK reference in Doctor Who
last night.
BriD
Green-Eyed Chris
<beth...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
NP at all. I always get these things wrong. I first thought Blon was a guy
instead of a raxafallopian.
Having spent my formative years in boy's dormitories, I'm flexible. Just
give me the whip, turn out the lights and we'll get along fine. ;-)
BTW, as every American knows, Who's on first!
--
Chris
drusilla
> In article <tife131nl1r9nlkhb...@4ax.com>,
> gjw <g...@example.com> wrote:
>> Robert A. Neinast <nei...@att.net> wrote:
>
>>> Interestingly, when Harry and friends first start examining
>>> the book, one of them remarks that the handwriting looks
>>> feminine.
>>>
>>> Snape's mother?
>>> Lily?
>> Hermione says it: "It might have been a girl. I think
>> the handwriting looks more like a girl's than a boy's."
>>
>> To which Harry replies:
>>
>> "The Half-Blood Prince, he was called...How many girls have
>> been Princes?"
>>
>> My bet is that it's Lily's handwriting.
There are men who have feminine handwriting and girls with masculine
handwritten. I've seen cases of guys with such a perfect calligraphy
that you wouldn't believe it was made by a man.
> If so, then Lily is the one who gets nastier as the book
> goes along, who invented Sectumsempra, who wrote "shove
> a bezoar down their throat", etc.
> Somehow that doesn't fit with the Lily we're supposed to
> believe in.
Even if in any circumstance the book was hers, she definitely wouldn't
write those spells. Unless of course she heard about and wrote them
down. But you're right, it doesn't fit her character at all.
It fits a lot better with Snape, who had tiny,
> cramped handwriting like Hermione's when he wrote his
> O.W.L. exams.
Mmm... we've seen Snape's handwriting before.
[gone to check book]
OotP:
"[...]he [Young Snape] had written at least a foot more than his closest
neighbours, and yet his writing was *minuscule and cramped*."
HBP:
"Harry bent low to retrieve the book, and as he did so, he saw something
scribbled along the bottom of the back cover in the same *small, cramped
handwriting* as the instructions that had won him his bottle of Felix
Felicis"
Definitely is the same handwriting, IMO. Unless Lily had tried to copy
Snape's, I don't have any doubt.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
drusilla
It might lie, though. If you deeply wish for a different looks that
those you have, the mirror will show you those and not the ones an
ordinary mirror would show you. And that's a lie.
It also show Harry a lie: not only his parents - he could get a picture
of them - but them around him. He was surrounded by people that were
death and that were not with him at the moment.
> BTW, perhaps his deepest desires have changed in the past
> 6 years. Perhaps his deepest desire is to know what
> items have been made into horcruxes.
Yes it might be but if the mirror would work in that way, hadn't DD used
the mirror to do so?
> Hey, it could happen. We're dealing with fiction here. Whatever
> Jo wants to happen will happen.
I suppose it might happen if JKR says so. But I think it would leading
us to many plot holes.
drusilla
Yes. But I wonder if they ever consider the chance of them producing a
child that is a wizard :S Not sure if it's possible, but I suppose they
have at least thought that the magical gene was running in the Evans family
drusilla
But that's because Number One Rule of Superheros is not reveal your true
identity. NEVER! (Yes, I watch "Who wants to be a Super Hero", ok?)
gjw
<gammanormids*erasethis*@gmail.com> wrote:
>Toon escribió:
>> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:30:00 GMT, gjw <g...@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> The biggest twist would be Snape, that awful boy, doing it all because of
>>>> his crush on Petunia!
>>> Rowling once asked who would want Snape to love them? I ask: who
>>> would want to love Petunia?? ;)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Vernon Duresely. Even knowing about her witch of a sister.
>
>Yes. But I wonder if they ever consider the chance of them producing a
>child that is a wizard :S Not sure if it's possible, but I suppose they
>have at least thought that the magical gene was running in the Evans family
Two Muggles can have a wizard child (called a "Muggleborn" in
wizarding society), just as two wizards can have a Muggle child,
(called a 'Squib' in wizarding society).
But since there are 60 million Muggles in the UK and only a few
thousand wizards, the odds against a Muggle couple having a wizard
child are very high. So it's not likely to happen...
gjw
Follow-up question: Who would want to love Vernon??? ;)
(I suppose we should be happy they found each other - it takes both of
them out of circulation.)
gjw
Good sleuthing! :)
And here's more proof (from HBP):
'I still don't get why he [Snape] didn't turn you in for using
that book,' said Ron. 'He must've known where you were getting it all
from.'
'He knew,' said Harry bitterly. 'He knew when I used Sectumsempra.
He didn't really need Legilimency ... he might even have known before
then, with Slughom talking about how brilliant I was at Potions ...
shouldn't have left his old book in the bottom of that cupboard,
should he?'
'But why didn't he turn you in?'
'I don't think he wanted to associate himself with that book,'
said Hermione. 'I don't think Dumbledore would have liked it very much
if he'd known. And even if Snape pre-tended it hadn't been his,
Slughom would have recognized his writing at once. Anyway, the book
was left in Snape's old classroom, and I'll bet Dumbledore knew his
mother was called "Prince".'
'I should've shown the book to Dumbledore,' said Harry. 'All that
time he was showing me how Voldemort was evil even when he was at
school, and I had proof Snape was, too -'
So it looks like it was definitely Snape's writing.
(Or, to be absolutely precise, at least some of it was Snape's
writing, we can't be 100% certain that his handwriting was the only
writing in the book, but that seems likely.)
Sirius Kase
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 23:59:37 GMT, Robert A. Neinast <nein...@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >In article <tife131nl1r9nlkhbbtpdlljipe70ej...@4ax.com>, g...@example.net
> >says...
> >> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 02:31:23 GMT, Robert A. Neinast <nein...@att.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >In article <6e2d13lltdd7moof68alclr1omk4ef3...@4ax.com>,
> >> >morbiusatw...@comcast.net says...
Yep, it's like "trade secrets" to be doled out only to people who are
special to him. Favored students might get tips not handed out
freely to all the students. If he succeeds in getting the right kid
at the top of the class, then he earns some sort of favor in return.
>
> >My guess is that Lily, the girl that her Potions teacher
> >raves about (and not Snape), told them to Snape in
> >class, and those are his notes, not his inventions.
He claimed they were his. Would he have lied?
>
> Quite possible.
If he's a good multitasker, able to lie while busy responding to an
emergency.
>
> >And then Snape lost his book at some point, so without
> >his notes he is forced to resort to mere competence,
> >instead of brilliance, when teaching the subject.
>
> But as I recall, the HBP potions book was just sitting in a cupboard
> in Snape's classroom. Slughorn just walked over and took it out
> (along with another copy) and gave it to Harry. One would think that
> Snape would have found it in such an obvious location.
I think he was using it while he taught the course and possibly wrote
some of the notes while a teacher, not as a student. Some spells,
like the hangy upside down thingy, were written while a student, but
he probably continued to annotate his text even as a teacher.
drusilla
Sometimes, I just got amazed at what this threads end up leading us
too... :)
drusilla
Well, Harry is after all her sister's son. Petunia is nasty but she is
not evil nor would abandon a baby knowing that he might die. So, at
least I hope she behaves when Harry leaves.